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Creating Residual Income in Your Mortgage Business · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  Hey, what's up, everybody? Jeff Zimper. Of course, your humble host for the mortgage marketing
• 0:09
  radio podcast. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. As always, we appreciate you listening
• 0:14
  and even appreciate you taking a moment to leave a review. That helps us reach more people.
• 0:19
  And we've got some ambitious goals coming up for the year end of this year and new year.
• 0:24
  As we approach our 300th episode, if you haven't yet taken time to leave us a review, sure
• 0:28
  we'd appreciate that right now. Wherever you're listening, Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
• 0:33
  you do listen, feel free to leave us where you thank you for very much for being a listener.
• 0:37
  However long you've been here. Okay, so before we get into my special guest this week,
• 0:41
  I want to give a shout out to one of our mortgage marketing pro, my agent class members,
• 0:46
  Eric Carson out of Florida, shout out to Jeff and this platform. Eric hosted a chat GPT
• 0:54
  class yesterday for a team who reached out to him after seeing a post for the class that he
• 1:01
  had hosted last month after they were finished with the class. One of the agents shared with me
• 1:07
  how last month was her best month with over six million in sales and said she's looking forward
• 1:13
  to working with us in the future. That's the agent telling Eric who just sold six million dollars
• 1:20
  for the month. She's looking forward to working with him. The post class feedback was excellent
• 1:25
  and so much better than doing open houses or cold calling. So what is Eric doing? Eric is doubling
• 1:32
  down. He's repeating this exact same class off to host another chat GPT class today for an
• 1:38
  insurance agent and her realtors. Eric closes out by saying having lots of fun providing value,
• 1:43
  helping agents increase their reach and not just quoting rates. Here's to continued success and
• 1:48
  collaboration. Eric, here's to you for being an action taker and just want to acknowledge you
• 1:54
  for being one of the bright spots of our community. For sure, congratulations on executing
• 1:59
  this you've demonstrated here by your success story that this is the most efficient highly
• 2:04
  leveraged way to scale your agent engagement and referrals as compared to other methods out there.
• 2:10
  So shout out to you, my man. Okay, this week my special guest, oh, by the way,
• 2:15
  if I forgot, you know what to do, you want to learn more? Check out mortgagemarketing.pro,
• 2:20
  go there, learn more about how you can achieve the same results as Eric, mortgagemarketing.pro
• 2:26
  or see the link in the show notes. Okay, now on to my special guest. See, we just do it right from
• 2:30
  the hip here folks, no fancy editing, none of that kind of stuff coming at you raw and real.
• 2:36
  My special guest this week. It's been a long time coming for this conversation. My
• 2:40
  who I will I will refer to now as a friend as we've gotten into each other over the past year or so.
• 2:44
  Kevin Ducey who is with comma insurance and Kevin and I are talking about your future wealth,
• 2:53
  your future as an investor as a business owner. And depending on where you are in your career
• 2:59
  trajectory, where you are in terms of your financial situation, your available assets for investing.
• 3:07
  Look, I think the bottom line is this is after you've been in this business for some time,
• 3:10
  you're looking to probably build scale, you're looking to build some autonomy, you're looking
• 3:15
  to build some margin, you're looking to build systems and or teams in place so that everything is
• 3:20
  not solely dependent upon you, right? And so there's a few different ways to do that, right? Obviously
• 3:26
  you can build a team, you know, right? You could become kind of a branch manager and make
• 3:29
  overrides, right? There's all these different options. And then if you want to actually invest,
• 3:32
  right, become a business owner, if you will, well, there's different ways to invest. You can
• 3:37
  buy real estate, you can buy different businesses and laundromats and whatnot franchises and all
• 3:41
  that kind of stuff. However, perhaps it makes sense to consider investing in something that is a,
• 3:47
  you know, a dotted line from your already current area of expertise invest in something that you
• 3:51
  already have a certain level of familiarity with, but invest in a business that doesn't demand,
• 3:56
  right? Your time, right? But allows to leverage off of the goodwill off of the results you've
• 4:03
  delivered for your clients and partners over the years and to capitalize on that. And of course
• 4:09
  that's why today we're talking with Kevin about you potentially investing in your own insurance
• 4:13
  agency. Now before you freak out and make a bunch of assumptions, hold your judgment, listen to
• 4:19
  this conversation because what if you could invest in a business that didn't require your time,
• 4:25
  that didn't require hiring, right? That didn't require you securing a location or taking care of
• 4:30
  all the legalities in the paperwork and all that, but simply build a recurring residual income for
• 4:35
  you over the long term. So when, so you're building for the future, so there's, you know, kind of
• 4:40
  this exit out strategy for you down the road instead of having to redo, right? Repeat every year
• 4:46
  all on you, all on your back. Maybe that's a picture to you, maybe not. Maybe this is right for you,
• 4:53
  maybe not, but hey, maybe it is. There's only one way to find out. Listen to this episode and if you
• 4:59
  find it intriguing and you think you might be a fit for it, well, then I definitely encourage you to
• 5:05
  chat with Kevin. You go to the link in the show notes and the link is y, comma, why, comma,
• 5:12
  comma.com. And that's where you can go learn more about that. Read some of the success stories.
• 5:19
  Learn a little bit more about comma and then schedule a call with Kevin. And maybe it's a fit.
• 5:26
  So that's it. I think this conversation will be very insightful for you guys and hopefully
• 5:29
  get you thinking about, you know, your long term strategy here for the future because that's
• 5:32
  what I want you to do is succeed and have all the wealth and success and happiness and fulfillment
• 5:37
  that you deserve. So without further ado, let's get into this week's show. Kevin, welcome to the show.
• 5:43
  Hey, thanks for having me, Jeff. It's been a pleasure and to know you and finally get on the show
• 5:47
  excited. And thank you. Yeah, and it's been a journey to get here. I know you and I've been talking
• 5:51
  about doing this for what a year. It's been, it's been a while. I mean, when you constantly see
• 5:55
  the same people with the conferences all the time and you become friends over time and just try
• 6:00
  to find the time on the schedule. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad to be able to do it as well,
• 6:04
  because I think this is a very interesting conversation because it's one, like I remember when I was
• 6:09
  an originator, I wasn't thinking about being a business owner, right? I was thinking about where's
• 6:14
  my next loan coming from, right? In a lot of ways. And, and, and you know, the, the, the, the hamster wheel
• 6:20
  of just that month after month after month of like, you know, and then at the end of the year,
• 6:24
  you're like, oh, look back. Here's what I did. And you're like, okay, January, time to do it again.
• 6:29
  You know, and at some point for those who've been in this industry for a while,
• 6:33
  that gets, I think you start to ask yourself, hey, man, you know, like ownership.
• 6:39
  Can I build some equity? Can I build some residual recurring income? That's not so dependent
• 6:43
  upon my efforts. And so that's why I think I, first of all, thank you for your persistence
• 6:48
  in having this conversation. But I think for those who find themselves in that situation,
• 6:51
  listening right now, who maybe are somewhat seasoned and, you know, they have a certain amount
• 6:54
  of success in all the, all the means and ways that this could be interesting for them. So,
• 7:01
  with that setup, brief background, or who are you? What are you doing?
• 7:06
  Yeah, right on. So I'll start with how I got involved in the mortgage industry. So December of 2018,
• 7:13
  had a great opportunity to jump on with whiteboard CRM, strictly mortgage-faced CRM,
• 7:19
  built by loan officers, for loan officers. I thought we had a really great product. We were
• 7:23
  really catered to the individual, individual lender. Had some hamstrings that, like,
• 7:30
  just some issues that weren't going to, wasn't going to allow us to ever take that to enterprise.
• 7:34
  And I led that organization for just shy of three years. We over tripled our growth in that
• 7:38
  timeframe. We were eventually acquired. It was a fantastic merger and acquisition there for us.
• 7:46
  Daily AI, which is now ADM, took over and left me with a new opportunity that led me into
• 7:53
  comma insurance. Now, and I've been with comma insurance since May of 21, the VP of Business
• 7:58
  Development here. And we were built with that exact mine frame that you just talked about, Jeff.
• 8:04
  So our founders were leading a really high origination team in Oklahoma City.
• 8:12
  And he was looking at it just like that. He's like, am I going to have to grind
• 8:16
  every day of my life until I'm 65? And will I ever be able to retire and keep the same lifestyle?
• 8:21
  There is no residual component. There is no wealth generating asset. So everything that I'm building
• 8:27
  for my life and the way that we live is going to come to an abrupt end when I no longer want
• 8:33
  to write mortgages. And writing mortgages means taking phone calls on Saturdays a lot of times
• 8:39
  for a lot of people. And it's this constant grind. It's I mean, every mortgage loan officer that I
• 8:43
  know worth their salt has put in the 60, 70 hours a week at times. And what made sense in the transaction?
• 8:52
  What was there? What was available that you could utilize the mortgage transaction to create
• 8:58
  some residual income and even more importantly, a wealth generating asset. And the light came on.
• 9:03
  And the light came on has come on for a lot of people. But that was insurance. And
• 9:08
  Brian Beaumart, the founder of comma, is a master at execution. I mean, it is one of the things that
• 9:15
  Brian is so phenomenal at. And so Brian started to work with his network. He found Timothy Harlan,
• 9:20
  who at one point in time, I think was the youngest CFO in the state of Oklahoma. He was a CFO at 24
• 9:26
  years old. And they put together some ideas and they created trust point insurance originally here in
• 9:31
  Oklahoma City. And it was built just for Brian and his origination team. But as time went on,
• 9:36
  it started to, you know, Brian spent a lot of money, a lot of blood sweat and tears to get things
• 9:41
  stood up, started building the carrier network. And by, you know, year three, four, five started
• 9:46
  really making some money on this deal. And his friends in the business, you know, Brian is one of
• 9:53
  Todd Duncan's lifetime achievement award winners. They started asking, Brian, hey, what are you
• 9:57
  doing for, you know, what, what are you doing for your side hustle? What's the, what's the
• 10:01
  ancillary forms of income that you're doing? He told them about insurance and it shocked them.
• 10:06
  Like, whoa, can you stand this up? Can you scale it? And so Brian and Timothy put their heads together
• 10:13
  and sure enough, and March of 2020, what a phenomenal month that was for everyone.
• 10:18
  Cama insurance was born. And so now that's our goal is to really help loan officers have that
• 10:27
  opportunity to retire, maintain that lifestyle, create a residual form of income in a well-generated
• 10:32
  asset. And really the biggest part of it is that, you know, it's their asset. They own it.
• 10:37
  You know, we have, we dabble in real estate investments and things like that. And yes, I look at
• 10:42
  the residual income like rent over your mortgage. Rent over your mortgage is great when you're
• 10:47
  in out of property. But the real value there is that tangible asset that you can sell, the property.
• 10:53
  And that's kind of the same way here with with Cama when they own the agency. It's theirs that
• 10:57
  they can own it and they could sell it. Okay. Great ROI on that.
• 11:01
  All right. Well, that's a good kind of setup. Let's dive a little bit deeper on that and get some
• 11:05
  additional focus around this because, you know, what we're talking about is, you know, being a
• 11:11
  business owner, right, building something that isn't solely dependent upon you and and not to
• 11:17
  get all cliche here and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, if you think about, I'm thinking
• 11:21
  about quotes from from Warren Buffett and those types of people like, you know, you need to develop
• 11:26
  the ability to make money where it's not solely dependent upon your own efforts. You know, and that's
• 11:31
  where becoming a business owner, that's the idea behind owning a business. Now people succeed at
• 11:35
  various levels of that. But what you made me think about was the other ways for you listening
• 11:41
  right now, I know there are some of you out there who have invested in different types of
• 11:48
  vehicles to address this issue we're talking about. Maybe you've bought a real estate, right,
• 11:53
  single family homes. I know our buddy Wally out in Texas, right? He's got a great portfolio of
• 11:58
  rental properties. Other people have Airbnb's. And so I wrote down this little kind of wheel on my
• 12:03
  piece of paper here of the other investments people alone originators can make, right, to to be
• 12:10
  able to backfill that, you know, kind of income real estate one, buying a business, you know, all
• 12:16
  these different things. And all of them come with different obviously overhead risks, demands,
• 12:23
  bandwidth attention and things like that. Why so let's just make it clear what you're proposing
• 12:29
  here with comma, what you're doing is you're standing up, use your term, right? And this isn't
• 12:34
  right for everybody. It depends on where they are in their career trajectory and other things.
• 12:37
  However, what you're doing is allowing them to become an owner of their own insurance agency.
• 12:44
  Simply said. Yes, correct. And you know, the first question I was getting, what do I have to get
• 12:48
  licensed? And it's absolutely not. The really the beautiful, like we are an insurance agency,
• 12:54
  like there's, there's no way around it. We are an insurance brokerage and we are the conduit
• 12:57
  to that. So really the secret to our sauce is kind of like McDonald's if anybody's, you know,
• 13:02
  the founder, right? Yeah. McDonald's got wealthy off owning real estate, not making hamburgers,
• 13:08
  making hamburgers was the conduit to have the real estate. Writing insurance is really the conduit
• 13:14
  for us. We're a manager big company in essence. So when you buy in and you invest in you own your
• 13:20
  own insurance agency through comma, we manage every aspect of that business on their behalf.
• 13:26
  Because we understand that our ideal client is a high volume mortgage originator, a high
• 13:33
  volume real estate brokerage, a high, they're, they're way too busy and they're experts in their
• 13:38
  field. We don't want to ask anybody to diversify their expertise. We want to diversify their
• 13:44
  income streams. So we're going to stand that thing up. We're going to build the agency for you.
• 13:49
  We're going to go out and hire an insurance agent for you. We're going to manage the P and L for
• 13:53
  you. We're going to set up rent for you. We're going to take care of every aspect of that business
• 13:58
  for you. With the exception of you, the mortgage advisor, and this is really critical here,
• 14:04
  referring your clients to your own insurance agency. And it sounds really simple on the surface
• 14:09
  in an essence it is. But there's a fallacy that mortgage loan officers think they refer
• 14:13
  more insurance business than they actually do because they always remember that first time home
• 14:17
  buyer or the person that asks for insurance and they send it to their guy Bob Smith down the
• 14:21
  street and Bob Smith gets $3,000, $8,000 in lifetime value from that 30-second referral you made.
• 14:27
  But when they own their own insurance agency, they'll be a little bit more forceful about
• 14:32
  the client that says, no, I'm good. They say, hey, listen, let's just have a, have a look at this.
• 14:37
  You know, we have a brokerage of carriers and that's really, I mean, we can get into that when
• 14:41
  I have individual conversations with people. That's nothing insectsy about insurance except
• 14:45
  if you're getting some checks from it. Sure. How does this work if you're, you know,
• 14:50
  work retail lender W2 versus broker? Does that make a difference? It really doesn't.
• 14:57
  So one of the aspects that we really wanted to dive in here and we believe that we are the only
• 15:04
  insurance agency set up like this that is strictly focused in the real estate space. So we made a
• 15:09
  lot of investments in lawyers to be, you know, attorney fees, specifically Mitch Keiter, right?
• 15:16
  One of the best well-known respo attorneys that's out there and Mitch, you know, signed off on
• 15:22
  everything that we were doing to make sure that we were completely respo compliant. So the fact
• 15:26
  that we didn't, we didn't use to not comp our agencies on FHA before the December publication
• 15:34
  that came out that said that insurance was not a dual comp situation there. So, you know,
• 15:39
  we really, we understand that the value here is associated with the mortgage loan transaction.
• 15:46
  So we can't put anybody's license and jeopardy. That would be, that would be cutting off our
• 15:51
  notes to spiderface, right? That just wouldn't make a lot of sense. So we've, we've made extra efforts
• 15:56
  to ensure that we are above board on everything there so that we can stay focused in this space.
• 16:02
  All right. So I'm on the website. We're going to put a, by the way, for anybody who wants to learn
• 16:06
  more, we'll keep talking about is ycoma.com. That's why, ycoma.com. There'll be a link in the show
• 16:11
  notes. But right now I'm reading the division of duties and the role of the mortgage originator,
• 16:16
  let's say, right, who's listening to this and think they might be at a point in their career where
• 16:19
  this might make sense or be of interest to them. So obviously, you're investing in a business
• 16:26
  like we talked about, right? So there's that aspect of it. The mortgage resonator approves
• 16:33
  hiring termination of an agency employees. Right. It's all the reporting and everything allows
• 16:38
  you to stay focused on your current business. So are you saying that I'm basically investing
• 16:43
  in this insurance brokerage, but my primary role is to just keep originating and, and, you know,
• 16:49
  to the degree I can have clients choose my brokerage, comma versus another and I'm building my
• 16:58
  recurring revenue over time. Absolutely. And it gets back to like, you know, some of the things I
• 17:03
  want to think about with where folks are at in the mortgage industry today is, I think too many
• 17:08
  of us are saying, yeah, but instead of yes and I hear a lot of these coaches that are talking about
• 17:13
  how you need to invest in technology, you need to invest in social, you need to do video, you need
• 17:19
  to do all these things. And then I hear other coaches talk about you need to get back to old school
• 17:23
  ways of picking up the phone. And I would say that's, that's yes to all of that, right? Because,
• 17:30
  hey, listen, when we go back to the stats in 2019, I believe it was, man did the study. 85% of Americans
• 17:38
  did not know who their loan originator was, right? 85% didn't know who they were. What, where did that
• 17:46
  number go in the next three years of the refibration? I bet you that number got into the single digits
• 17:52
  of percentages of people who knew who their originator was, right? So, and 30% of Americans
• 17:58
  answered the phone. This is really like, I'm getting into this because I do, I want to add some
• 18:02
  value here to the originators that are out here to the listening, right? And so I've heard people
• 18:06
  say, well, I don't want to pick up the phone. Well, I'm sorry, you know, if only 30% of the people
• 18:10
  answer the phone and only 15% know who your originators are, like you still have a chance to say,
• 18:15
  increase the fact that they're going to come back to you in the next refibration that we're going to see.
• 18:20
  And it's kind of the same way here with insurance is if you're going to refer your clients,
• 18:25
  refer your clients, like if I'm going to refer Jeff, you know, I'm not going to say,
• 18:30
  whatever the name of your podcast is, if I'm going to refer him or his loan officer,
• 18:35
  loan officer, I'm not going to say go to movement, I'm going to share somebody's actual name,
• 18:39
  right? I don't care where they work. And I'm going to have a conversation with that person
• 18:45
  about insurance. And I think it's a huge way to add value in today's climate. Insurance premiums
• 18:51
  are skyrocketing across the board. Insurance lags behind inflation, because by the time that
• 18:59
  insurance companies start to get claims, they realize they need to raise rates. And it's such a
• 19:03
  rate competitive market that insurance is that they really kind of want to ease off that a bit. Well,
• 19:08
  we're seeing it now insurance premiums are skyrocketing. So there's a huge opportunity to not only
• 19:14
  reach out to your current client base that's coming through for a loan to refer them to a brokerage
• 19:20
  as a network of carriers that they can shop in one stop, but also to reach out to your pass
• 19:25
  on the database, have a conversation with them about where their insurance needs are,
• 19:30
  potentially save them some money as opposed to an annual mortgage review. An annual mortgage review
• 19:34
  right now is a, unless you have a lot of unsecured debt, I don't know what you're going to do for
• 19:39
  somebody at 7.3% on a 30 year fix right now. So there's just huge opportunities there to
• 19:46
  really provide value to your client. So a long-winded way of saying it's really highly effective
• 19:53
  when that mortgage advisor truly is an advisor to their client and all aspects of their finance
• 19:58
  and insurance is a big part of that, right? And so just hey, simply have the conversation with
• 20:04
  them about where they need to go and it works wonders. I mean the ROI on this thing could be phenomenal
• 20:10
  and we're talking about, well like I said, three to eight thousand dollars for a 30 second
• 20:14
  conversation. You do the math on what the hourly rate is. Now are you going to capture every one
• 20:18
  of those? Absolutely not. That'd be a fallacy for me to say that yes, you're going to capture all
• 20:22
  those, but it's still the math works out a whole lot better than your most hourly rates for the
• 20:28
  folks. Are you saying that three to eight thousand dollars that is the annual value of that client?
• 20:33
  It's a lifetime value. So and that's actually just putting them in and it's probably even low
• 20:39
  because insurance agencies are valued off the total premium that's written and the income that
• 20:44
  they're getting, but I'm basing that strictly off the income and the fact that most Americans stick
• 20:48
  with their insurance agency, their insurance policy with their companies for about eight and a
• 20:53
  half years. Here's the other thing like loan officers don't really realize this in my opinion,
• 20:59
  is that Americans are just as stupid about insurance as they are mortgage. I shouldn't say stupid,
• 21:05
  they're just as uneducated about insurance as they are mortgage. And there's that opportunity.
• 21:10
  You really do have to coach and educate them. We've seen it, right? Home prices have escalated
• 21:16
  and the thing about it, if you had one policy for eight and a half years, what's the value of your
• 21:21
  home in 2015 compared to now? And do you have the RC reconstruction cost estimates built in
• 21:29
  your insurance that would actually allow you for a catastrophic loss to replace your home?
• 21:35
  There's a lot of people who don't have that. So it's multifaceted here where that loan officer
• 21:41
  can be of real value to their clients, create better relationships, change that number from the
• 21:47
  15% of your clients that know you to the 30, 40, 50% and with the decrease in number of MLSs that
• 21:54
  we're having from the beginning of 2022 to what will be in the beginning of 2024 and to capitalize
• 22:01
  on that market share is a huge opportunity for those folks that are going to stick this out. And
• 22:04
  that's really our ideal client. Is there physical office space required for setting up an agency?
• 22:12
  It's not required. It's, I would say it's probably about 50-50. So in this post-COVID world that we
• 22:19
  live in, we set up a lot of virtual offices, like let people work from home. There's still some folks
• 22:25
  that work for lack of a better term old school, like come into a office. And if you want your
• 22:30
  insurance advisor right there in your office, we will set that up, set it up with fair market value
• 22:35
  rents, stay rest of a compliant. But for the most part, we set something up through a region's
• 22:40
  virtual office space. Interesting. And so once again, just to reiterate,
• 22:45
  you are doing the quote-unquote lifting. Obtaining state licenses, leasing office space if that's
• 22:51
  even needed, as we just said, recruiting training and coaching your producer. That's a lot of
• 22:56
  heavy lifting there. How do you do that? Are you just doing the usual traditional recruiting type
• 23:01
  stuff that would occur in any industry? Yes, typically we're going to utilize the job boards,
• 23:07
  web-based job boards, to try and find somebody in the certain locations that we need.
• 23:11
  I do make an ask, and most of our loan officers now, in real estate agencies that we work with,
• 23:18
  have a little bit more bandwidth to maybe send us a name, email, phone number.
• 23:22
  I love to tell them, hey, listen, if you've had somebody that's shown up in your inbox,
• 23:26
  every first Tuesday of the month or six months trying to get your insurance business,
• 23:30
  that'd be a great candidate for us to go recruit. And the recruiting pitch there is, hey,
• 23:34
  listen, you're going to get 75% of your business is going to be driven in from your ownership group.
• 23:39
  You can count on immediately this amount of referrals every month, and that's very enticing to them.
• 23:47
  And how does the opportunity compare, because I'm thinking of the other insurance companies
• 23:53
  or individuals out there that I know of, right? The all-state people, the various other insurance
• 23:58
  agents are out there. So recruiting, obviously, you've got your own game to play there
• 24:04
  with making it attractive to them. Any comments around that?
• 24:07
  Yeah, I mean, that's the challenge. Brian Bomer likes to say one of the biggest challenges
• 24:12
  with coming in and owning your own insurance agency with commas, you have to divorce your insurance
• 24:17
  agent, and that can be a challenge for some folks. I've had folks who said they won't do it,
• 24:21
  and I actually really respect that. The challenge also is that, listen, you've got Bob Smith
• 24:27
  all-state who's been in business in your town for 35 years or whatever. We're not going to get Bob.
• 24:33
  Bob's driving the Mazza Roddy and has seven country club memberships, man. He doesn't need to
• 24:37
  come on and do this, but we could get Bob's underling. We can get Bob's, you know, somebody who's
• 24:42
  been with him for, you know, 18 months and has realized that the premise of owning Bob's book is
• 24:48
  for like a better term of pipe dream. So that's there. Is there an opportunity for the
• 24:53
  L.O. and an insurance agent to team up as co-owners? Yes, we've done that in some small instances.
• 25:01
  It's got to be the right agents, got to be the right opportunity, but it's not something that we're
• 25:05
  going to just shy away from. And you're saying you're also working with some real estate agencies
• 25:10
  or brokerages? Yes. And obviously the independence, of course, not the big brands.
• 25:15
  Right. I don't have Keller Williams. I've got the exp setting this up, all of that piece.
• 25:20
  Right. Exactly. Pretty cool win. And that's a that's a non-compete issue for them.
• 25:24
  No issues there around, press for or anything. No, we're good. They're actually a little bit more
• 25:29
  stringent on the mortgage side, but it's, you know, we're completely in alignment there.
• 25:34
  I will say there's some techniques and some tricks and some things that we would look at for a real
• 25:38
  estate brokerage differently than a mortgage loan shop. The client's a little bit more captive
• 25:44
  in the loan process to refer to insurance. So there's there's steps and processes that we've
• 25:50
  put in with our real estate agencies to have a higher capture rate. And we typically look for a
• 25:55
  a little bit more volume from that shop than I would from a mortgage shop. Because we're going
• 25:59
  to have a lower closing percentage because they're just not as captive to the needs of insurance
• 26:04
  at that time. Do you have any success stories you want to mention? I mean, looking at a couple
• 26:09
  of the folks on your page, you got Sam, you got Cody, you got Tom. Anybody want to highlight?
• 26:15
  Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one of one of our agencies, obviously we're going through some
• 26:22
  of the roughest times in the history of mortgage. Arguably, I mean, we could make the argument,
• 26:26
  this is harder than 2008. I've heard from a lot of my my owners that this is harder than a 2008.
• 26:31
  Well, at least there was homes for sale in 2008. It's mine. So one of the things that we were
• 26:38
  able to do with one of our one of our agencies have been around for a long time is they were actually
• 26:43
  able to do a cash out refile on their agency and get a pretty significant return out to their
• 26:48
  loan officers. So they're actually basically able to take a loan against future earnings on that
• 26:53
  and distribute it to their owners, which is really which is great for them in this environment,
• 26:57
  right? It would be interesting in people who have been 50, 60, 70% decline in volumes year over
• 27:02
  year. We've already started the conversation on this about like lifestyles and where people are at.
• 27:07
  So that was a huge opportunity there. And then I've got to, you know, we've got quite a few of
• 27:12
  these, but I want to share one. I've got a gentleman in Georgia. I love the guy. He hasn't given me
• 27:19
  permission to share his name, so I won't. And I respect the heck out of the guy. You and I never
• 27:24
  see him at conferences, Jeff. That's not his deal. He's not out there. But the guy's writing 400
• 27:28
  loans a year. He wrote 400 loans in 2022. And he gets he gets 90% of his clients in front of his
• 27:35
  insurance agent. And I asked him, like, can you give me an advice to talk to our owners on how
• 27:40
  to do this? Because this agent is an agency is extremely profitable. He's getting residual income
• 27:45
  every month. As a matter of fact, Q4, I think we the his return on his is a quarterly distribution
• 27:51
  in Q4 actually aligned with what he didn't make year over a year from the decrease in mortgage
• 27:57
  value, the decrease in mortgage volume. Excuse me. And I, this is where I get the, I asked him,
• 28:02
  what do you do? He says, I just talked to the client. I said, what do you mean you wrote 400 loans
• 28:06
  last year? What do you mean you talked to client? I said, I talked to 398 of my 400 loans last year.
• 28:11
  I was like, you talked to 398 of your clients. It's like, yep, I absolutely did. And I think that's
• 28:17
  one of the reasons why he's so successful. Not only with his insurance business, but with his
• 28:20
  mortgage businesses that he has that effort. And he says now his conversation with his clients is
• 28:26
  like, hey, yeah, congratulations. You know, we're getting through the process. But let's make sure
• 28:30
  you get your insurance. It's 90% about insurance. It's kind of, it's kind of funny. I was using that
• 28:35
  as the conduit for an individual one-to-one conversation for his clients. And I guarantee that
• 28:41
  do you go poll their his client base that that numbers way higher than 15% who remember who
• 28:46
  their loan officer is? Well, there's a great lesson in there. You know, the whole advice versus
• 28:50
  price line comes, comes to mind, shout out, Mr. Savage. But there's, there's multiple ways to add
• 28:58
  value, right? To educate your clients and the loan side of things is just one. The insurance side
• 29:03
  is another. It's multiple opportunities. You know, escrow accounts are not in pounds. You know,
• 29:07
  all that stuff, homestead. Like, and it's funny, you bring that up because all this talk about AI
• 29:14
  and stuff. And I've been doing a lot of work on AI. And I remember somebody, I don't know who said
• 29:20
  this quote. So I usually like to give credit. But anyway, it's, you know, the quote was when when
• 29:24
  everyone's doubling down on AI and tech, right? This real estate outfit is doubling down on the human
• 29:30
  connection because that's going to be a stark difference of those people who just try to automate
• 29:35
  and, you know, tech everything and lose the personal touch to your point about your friend in
• 29:41
  Georgia. That's partly why he's winning is that personal engagement connection. I'm smarter because
• 29:47
  I spoke with, so all of a sudden resistance goes down, trust goes up. And man, they'll just take
• 29:53
  every piece of advice you have. I really think it goes back to that. Yes. And like, do you need to
• 29:58
  look into AI and invest in the technology? Yes. Way. You can't lose the human touch. Right.
• 30:06
  Still very important. And I think we got it's to no fault of their own. It's human nature. When
• 30:11
  you, when you see your, your volume of loans, double, triple, and in such a short time with the
• 30:18
  read by boom, it's human nature to think that this thing is just never going to shut off. But we know
• 30:24
  that those folks who, I mean, think about the real estate. I mean, that's the number one referral
• 30:30
  source for loan officers. Those folks who state purchase focus, those folks who stayed and built
• 30:34
  their relationships with those realtors and those realtor companies and their financial advisors
• 30:39
  and whoever else that they're sourcing their referral base from. They're not sourcing the
• 30:44
  referral base by AI. They're, they're doing it a little bit, but it's the human connection that
• 30:49
  trust that they built with that person. Those folks who made those investments are literally
• 30:54
  forest gump who walked out into hurricane. And, and once those hurricane clears are coming back
• 30:58
  with all the shrimp, they're going to survive. They're not the NMLS's that went away. And I still
• 31:03
  think there's time now, even in this hard season, which we don't know how much longer we're going to
• 31:07
  be in it. They focused on all of those things. Yeah. Reminds me, I watched the video yesterday by
• 31:16
  somebody I interviewed on the podcast, Matt Weaver out of Florida. If you know who he is,
• 31:21
  should probably talk to him, but he's. I know I'm mad. I never spoke, but I know I'm mad.
• 31:26
  Well, see if I can make a connection. He's the the number one purchase originator in the country.
• 31:30
  I think he did 1500 loans, purchase loans in 2022. Okay. And he it's so funny. Obviously,
• 31:38
  his number one customer is is the real estate agent for those who are listening to podcasts.
• 31:42
  You remember that very clearly in the interview, but the the one thing he said on the video clip
• 31:47
  that I was just watching an Instagram reel, he said he was talking to a room full of real estate
• 31:52
  agents. He said, Hey, guys, good news. For all of you are getting a lot of calls from loan officers
• 31:58
  right now. The good news is those are going away. Because when 2024 comes and rates go back down,
• 32:05
  all those people are calling on you are going to now go chase the refi business. And he said,
• 32:10
  and guess where I'm going to be right here. I am where I've always been. And he gets this round
• 32:16
  of applause from 100 agents in the room. I mean, I go back to my whiteboard days. So our biggest
• 32:24
  customer in my whiteboard days was Brian Beaumar and his team of cornerstone and these high volume
• 32:29
  loan officers. I mean, to be on his team, you needed to be doing 150 transactions plus. And I had
• 32:34
  one of them come to me and say, Hey, Kevin, can we turn on a refi kind of thing through whiteboard?
• 32:38
  We had a beautiful refi campaign. Pretty built ready to go click a button thing with fire out tall
• 32:42
  your pass funded database. And I had to get approval from Brian before he and that stuff went out.
• 32:46
  He's like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. He said, we will take the refi as well. We get him.
• 32:50
  We will not turn clients away. But we are going to stay purchase focused. And that's why that team
• 32:56
  continues to win. Right. Exactly. All right. So we've talked about all sunshine and rainbows.
• 33:02
  What's the what's the downside or the things that people should be aware of if they're considering
• 33:07
  investing in a business like this? Oh, there's a couple things. Number one is it's the
• 33:13
  antithesis of mortgage, right? So you go and you build a relationship with realtor. We're going
• 33:19
  to stay focused there. You start to receive some referrals from that realtor. You can automatically
• 33:24
  see an ROI on that investment in that relationship. It's almost, I mean, it's within six to eight weeks.
• 33:30
  You can see some real ROI. You can see thousands of dollars coming back to you immediately.
• 33:36
  Insurance is not that way. Insurance is literally and standing up a insurance agency brand new,
• 33:42
  especially is not that way. It's going to take time. And what I mean by time is it's really going
• 33:46
  to take 18 months from the time that you hire an insurance agent to you start to see that the
• 33:52
  insurance agency is starting to make some money. And it's going to take a little past two years
• 33:56
  before you start to see some returns on that investment actually coming back to you. And that's
• 34:01
  really hard for loan officers, right? And I mean, this respectfully, you show me a patient loan
• 34:06
  officer. I'll show you one out of business, right? That's not the way to win as a loan officer is
• 34:11
  to be patient. You have to be patient when you own your insurance agency. The other aspect is
• 34:16
  you have to change your process, right? So we're, I'm dealing with the best of the best, right? We
• 34:22
  exclusively deal with high volume mortgage shops because no offense to the folks that are doing
• 34:27
  two transactions a month, it just doesn't make sense. There's not enough insurance to write to make
• 34:31
  it work. Those folks, so when you're asking, you talked about Wally. He loved the guys,
• 34:38
  the phenomenal human being think think the world of him. When you're asking Wally and his team to
• 34:42
  change their process, the process that has shown to work and win for them for years, that's really
• 34:49
  challenging. You have to be willing to say, listen, I'm going to make this investment and standing
• 34:54
  up my own business and to do that, I'm going to change not only the process in which out the way
• 34:58
  that I handle my clients when it comes to insurance, but everybody on my team is going to have to change
• 35:03
  that process because this is something that's going to give me that retirement, that ability to
• 35:09
  step away from this business and still live the lifestyle that I have, you've got to make sure that
• 35:13
  that's on the forefront of your mind. You know, a good friend of ours, Mark Green, who owned
• 35:18
  top of mine sold it, and Mark's phenomenal human being, Mark talked about this all the time with me,
• 35:23
  he says Kevin, you have to talk to the loan officer who thinks about 2038, not 2024, because the
• 35:29
  loan officers that think in about 2038 are the clients that you want, because those folks understand
• 35:34
  the processes and steps that they're putting in and the return on investments that they're going to
• 35:37
  get in 15 years is what's truly important. Wow, that, that thing's to hurt a little bit right there.
• 35:43
  It doesn't mix a little challenging, but, but again, of being a business owner isn't an investor,
• 35:50
  right, a savvy investor, right, isn't necessarily right for everybody, or it's about timing, right?
• 35:56
  So if you're listening to this right now, you probably know, you're saying to yourself,
• 36:01
  this isn't probably right for me, but some of you are saying, hmm, this is interesting. You might
• 36:05
  have, you might be in a place where, you know, you're sitting on some cash after the run that we've
• 36:10
  had with Refries or whatever, you might be in a place where you're 10 years in, and you're like,
• 36:15
  yeah, where is that? Where is my exit? My out, you know? So for those that are thinking about that,
• 36:21
  they want to learn a little bit more, I'm looking at your map right now, your license in 48 states.
• 36:26
  That's correct. Yeah. And so you're pretty much everywhere. So for those who, once again,
• 36:31
  what would be the process for people who want to learn more? What do they do?
• 36:35
  So this is another aspect that doesn't move very quickly, but because we are going to make
• 36:40
  a significant investment into this thing, and it is for the future, right? So we're going to have
• 36:44
  to vet all that out. So the first step is just to get in contact with me. Let's have a conversation.
• 36:48
  Let's, and typically I have the conversation that I've already shared with you. We're going to
• 36:52
  go through exactly what this is. What we're about what we do for you. And then if that sounds
• 36:57
  enticing, we don't set up a pro-former review where we can look at some mock numbers and see what
• 37:03
  kind of return on investments that work for folks. And then we go through the process of standing
• 37:07
  up the LLC and creating the agency form. Now, typically when somebody from first call to stand up
• 37:14
  with somebody who was, yes, I want to do this, it's going to take probably about six months before
• 37:19
  the agency is really up, running with an agent in place. I'm looking at this. It's September
• 37:25
  2023. I don't pretend to be Barry Habib, but I do think we will see some relaxation in the rates
• 37:33
  by 2024. It could be a perfect time to time that market. Furthermore, there's an opportunity if you
• 37:39
  have a large database that you have written a ton of loans for that you want to stay present with,
• 37:44
  and then you want to give real value. We can work with you to set up some campaigns through your
• 37:48
  CRM based on funded dates to reach out to them and start driving and business immediately for your
• 37:54
  agency. And creating value for your clients so that when that re-fi boom happens, when the purchase
• 38:00
  boom happens, when things start to move in this world that has been stagnant for 18 months,
• 38:05
  you are winning, especially with the thinning of the herd, if you will, of the NMLS as they're
• 38:10
  leaving the business. Absolutely. That's good stuff. For people who are after hearing that,
• 38:16
  still are curious to learn more and see if this is a fit for you. We're going to link it in the
• 38:21
  show notes, but once again, it's they go to ycomawhycoma.com. The other thing is I'm very active on
• 38:30
  Facebook. There's probably hardly a loan officer in the country that we don't have a mutual
• 38:36
  friend so they can find me there or reach out to me there. I'd love to talk there. I'm on
• 38:40
  Instagram. I'm the LO Insurance Guy on Instagram. Whatever you need, I'm here for you. It's not a
• 38:46
  high pressure sale. We can't do that. Can't high pressure sale somebody into this. You have to show
• 38:50
  them the real ROI on the steel. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I'm actually going to pull you up on Instagram
• 38:56
  here as well right now. LO Insurance Guy. I believe it's LO underscore insurance guy.
• 39:01
  Okay. Got it. I want to make sure I got that right. It's probably really cheesy and done,
• 39:05
  Jeff, but hey, I'm not the most creative guy when it comes to that stuff. That's fine, man. I
• 39:10
  know I'm connected to you. I just don't know the actual handle. Okay. Got it. LO underscore
• 39:19
  insurance underscore guy. That's what it actually is. Okay. Oh, great. It's just straight up,
• 39:30
  one-on-one with Kevin over there on Instagram. That's another way to connect with you, man. That's
• 39:33
  cool. It's funny, but you get in people's Instagram feed. I see your one where you get the hair
• 39:38
  all done up. You got daughters? Yes, I do. Listen, I'm learning this whole thing as well. I was
• 39:44
  that forward academy in the Eldingers event recently. I did Kyle Draper's 31 videos in August.
• 39:52
  I'm learning how to show more of yourself than it's right. My daughter, my daughter, my daughter
• 39:58
  really wanted to play with me that day, but we had taken them to get ice cream and I foolishly
• 40:02
  got ice cream with them. She wanted to, I promised her I'd wrestle and I was so full from the
• 40:07
  stupid ice cream. She's like, fine, I'm doing your hair, daddy. And after she did my hair,
• 40:11
  she's like, now you have to show this to everybody you know. And I'm like, well, I know the quickest
• 40:15
  place to do that. I'm going to put it on my side. Awesome. Good to see. That's what it's about.
• 40:19
  Courage war. Just put it out there. Yes, sir. Okay. Cool, man. Well, this has been educational
• 40:24
  for me for sure. I've learned a lot. And so if you're curious, you know what to do.
• 40:28
  Follow the link and show notes. Ycoma.com. Get connected with the Kevin and learn more.
• 40:35
  Hey, man. Thank you once again. It shouldn't take a year to do this. But let's let's definitely
• 40:40
  circle back as you guys get more success stories under your belt and we'll bring this conversation
• 40:43
  back to the folks maybe next year. Absolutely. And I look forward to seeing you on the road show
• 40:48
  though. I'm sure we're embarking on here in the next few months. All right. Well,
• 40:51
  listeners, I want to say goodbye to you. Thanks for tuning in. You know what to do if you like this
• 40:54
  episode, leave us a review. And we'll see you on the next one. Hey, guys, what's up?
• 40:58
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