Latest / Dishin' Dirt with Gary Pickren / The Private Listing Trap: If You're Marketing It, You're On the Market — And Most Agents Don't Know It

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The Private Listing Trap: If You're Marketing It, You're On the Market — And Most Agents Don't Know It · Dishin' Dirt with Gary Pickren

0:02
SPEAKER_01: This is Dish and Dirt with Gary Pickering, South Carolina's only podcast dedicated to the real estate agent craft.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: And now the host of Dish and Dirt, Gary.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm your often opinionated but rarely wrong host, Gary Pickering, coming to you from the beautiful downtown Columbia South Carolina offices of Blair Kato Pickering Cash Line, this, the last week of March 2026.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, back with me today is the real estate dream team, or maybe better labeled as the bottom of the drain team.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: We have a lot to discuss today.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: We're going to talk about the private listings.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: We're going to talk about days on market.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: We're going to talk about is it marketing or is it not marketing to have it on a portal?
0:41
SPEAKER_02: But let me start today with my introduction of our esteemed and celebrated guest, Anne Brad Allen.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: So first of all, we're going to start with our face guy of the group, Matthew Thrift.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: He's the guy who brings in all the lady viewers for us.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Everybody's got to have a face guy, right?
0:55
SPEAKER_02: So Matthew is the former chairman of the Greater Greenville Association of Realtors MLS.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: He's going to bring that great viewpoint for us today.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: We then have Craig Summerall.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: He's our quiet, measured thinker.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: He's also the president of the consolidated multiple listing service here in Columbia.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: So don't hate him just because of his job title.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And then finally, there's Brad Allen, who is my alter ego.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: He's me with just a better beard.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: He's a podcaster of his own.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: He has a real estate untucked podcast that you can also find on all the podcast platforms.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: And he's also a former member of the CMLS.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: So, guys, happy we got the band back together.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: We're going on tour.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being here.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, dude.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: Good to be here.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Before we start, got a quick update on FinCEN.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: Texas judge ruled last week that FinCEN collection of data for closings that involve cash transactions with LLCs or with trust was unconstitutional, that the CFPB did not have the power to do what they were doing, to collect the information.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: And so at this point, we're not collecting the information anymore.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: We're not charging you the fees anymore.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: So basically, in a nutshell, complete waste of time, complete waste of money.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: We literally had a staff member train for months, move them over, paid them a salary, created all this software, and now we ain't doing it.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So just keep that in mind.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Whenever the government gets involved in your business and my business, they typically screw it up.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: And this is just another example.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: Now, today's show, we're going to tackle one of the biggest fights in real estate that we're having right now: the private listing networks, the coming soon listings, whether properties can be viewed publicly without actually being considered on the market.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Because for decades, the multiple listing service has created a system that is built on transparency, cooperation, equal access, one place where the buyer can see everything.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: And apparently nobody likes that because we want to all undo that for some odd reason.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: So now as we see this shift in the marketplace, we're now starting to see listings appear on brokerage websites.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: We're starting to see private listing networks, we're starting to see portals, and they're doing this instead of or before going to the multiple listing service.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: So today, we basically have one centralized question over this entire discussion today.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: If a property is being marketed publicly, is it already on the market?
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And what does that mean for MLS rules?
3:07
SPEAKER_02: What does that mean for consumer transparency?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: What does that mean about your fiduciary duty to your buyer?
3:12
SPEAKER_02: So let's start with our foundation questions, guys.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: Matthew, what counts as public marketing today?
3:19
SPEAKER_02: What is public marketing?
3:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's pretty simple.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Anytime an agent is talking about a property that they have a listing agreement in place, that is public marketing.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Could be digital, could be postcards, snail mail, hot air balloons over a house.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Any little thing that an agent does that talks about a property that they have under listing agreement is public marketing.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: That complies exactly with 4057 that says the exact same thing.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: And Matthew, you nailed it.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: You cannot do anything without the listing agreement first and foremost.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: But once you have that listing agreement, once you are forward-facing to the public, that's public marketing in a nutshell.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: Brad, Greg, y'all disagree?
3:56
SPEAKER_02: You agree with that?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: Anything to add?
3:58
SPEAKER_02: Simple English, I think.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not that hard to figure out.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: So, Craig, if a listing is on a public-facing website, like a Zillow, a Redfin, any of these websites, the Compass website that we're hearing so much about, even if it's a selective marketing process where they're only marketing to a limited number of people, is that still not the same thing as marketing?
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it to me it's the same thing.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: And you go back to the South Carolina license law and it's very clear.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: And Brad, you're on the very heavily involved in NAR, and I know NAR is not taking a position on this whatsoever.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing that it perhaps might be a South Carolina law issue a little bit different than if other states?
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Because Matthew and Craig are 100% correct.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: We have licensing law that says you've got to have a listing agreement, first of all.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: And then once you start doing any type of forward-facing to the public that is considered marking, is it perhaps different laws in California and other places?
4:55
SPEAKER_02: Are you seeing that from NAR?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's, I mean, not just from me, I'm not saying from NAR, but just knowing friends across the country.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: There are pre-marketing.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: There are coming soon campaigns you can do, and they can have whatever rules they want.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: So if, you know, anybody in South Carolina wanted an MLS want to come up with you can pre-market for 14 days, you could do that technically.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And then you'd have to put it live on the 15th day if that were the rules.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: There are some markets, and I think that's where a big differentiator with Refkin was saying, well, also with NAR is we we're okay with that as long as your locals allow that.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of stepping back a little bit and rolling it back and saying, as long as your locals allow it and it's legal there, you can do what you want, is what I understand.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: The rollback a little bit of the clear cooperation policy.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: They didn't do away with it, but they just kind of eased it up a little bit.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: And Craig, that's a big difference because when they say you're locals, they kind of take the idea that the locals own all the MLSs, but that's not necessarily true across the country.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And it's certainly not true in South Carolina.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: The biggest MLS in our in our state, as I understand it, is the CMLS, and it is not owned by a realtor association.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: It would also apply to whatever rules the local MLS has as to whether or not you can pre-market or coming soon.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: I've always said that a directive from some management uh level in your company or from a seller doesn't authorize you to violate the terms and rules in the MLS.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: So we got to look at not only licensing law, but we also got to look at MLS law.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: Matthew, up in the upstate, you're a little bit different though, because your MLS is owned by GGAR, correct?
6:26
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: And so not only do we have to follow the MLS committee rules, but they'd also have to follow follow whatever GGAR says, correct?
6:33
SPEAKER_01: All that's correct, including the other two on each side of Greenville County.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: So we got to keep up with multiple rules for multiple uh MLS systems.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Because you you're in Greenville, Spartanburg, the Western Upstate, and even Canopy now.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: You got four MLSs that cover your area.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna have to keep up with four rules.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be very difficult as a broker in charge.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: I know you're a broker in charge at Berkshaw Hathaway up in Greenville.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: And so now you might have an agent that could actually try to select which MLS to put it in based on what the rules are as to whether they allow coming soons or not.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: You're correct.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: I believe last time I looked in canopy rules and regulations, you can market a coming soon for like up to two weeks, I believe.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: It's either two weeks or 21 days, but that's not the case in Greenville.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: As soon as you have the listing agreement, it has to be in the MLS within 48 hours of seller signature.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: So, Brad, this is where a broker has to come in and decide what are the office policies, particularly in a market like Matthew's in, where you have multiple MLSs, or if you're a broker in the Midlands and in the upstate, because we don't have a jurisdictional or geographical limitation on brokers, you're gonna have to probably put in some type of rules or regulation as to what you will allow your people to do.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: And it maybe Matthew could allow you select which MLS and you follow those rules, or you may as a company say, no, I'm gonna do this.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting for Matthew's area.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I've got an office up there as well, is like, let's say Greenville says you're not allowed to do it, but Spartanburg says, yeah, have at it.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: You can list a Greenville property in Spartanburg's MLS that's located in Greenville.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So are you gonna get in trouble as a broker in Greenville's MLS because you did something in Spartanburg's MLS that circumvented the Greenville MLS?
8:10
SPEAKER_00: And then take that step further.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: You're the broker, your agents come to you and they say, I want to do this.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I don't think so.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, but I could sell it two weeks early by myself and double end it.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna look them in the face and say, I don't think so.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Like at some point, our customer is our agents.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: And so how do we balance ethics, the consumer's need, and keeping agents on our roster?
8:31
SPEAKER_02: And so, Craig is the president of the MLS, I'm sure you're wanting to get all the MLSs together and y'all conspire together to come up with one set of rules, right?
8:38
SPEAKER_02: That's that's what you're wanting to do now.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't say conspire.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: I really don't like that term, but I would I would make a very strong argument that uh our rules are correct and the best.
8:49
SPEAKER_03: And if everybody followed suit with that, then uh, you know, things life would be easier.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and say that that that the whole thing can concerns me.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: That's why I jokingly use the word conspire, because that is the word that we will hear from a lawyer, very much like a Michael Ketchmark, that if the four MLSs in the upstate got together, because Matthew's already just thrown a perfect example of how this could happen, like Brad said too, um, and so those four get together and say, hey, let's make our rule the same.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: Now all of a sudden it's an antitrust, it's a conspiracy, and so what we've done is fragmented the industry in a bad way.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: Can somebody uh in this group here explain to me what the difference between office exclusive, delayed marketing, and public marketing listing is?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll I'll take it if you want.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: So I did some I did a deep dive on this for uh some research.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: I was I was interested.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: I saw Robert speak at Inmin back in January, and he kind of started this rabbit trail, right?
9:42
SPEAKER_00: So basically, and if I have this right, if not, you're gonna get some hate mail, but it's your podcast, not mine.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: I get hate mail anyway.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: So office exclusive, basically, that is behind the paywall.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: So compass agents and compass clients have the ability to log into compass.com, go through the I'm saying the paywall, they don't actually pay, firewall, and they can see their own ecosystem, their intranet of it listings.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: If those don't sell, then they give them a coming soon status or whatever their status uses, which is consumer-facing, just go to compass.com, you can see all their private listings, but it's not behind the paywall.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: So I could go there with my clients on the website and see what they've got.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Then if it doesn't sell, then they go to the MLS for syndication all the way out.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's a what I understand, a three-step approach.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Super private, see if we can sell it in-house or to buyers that we're working with.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Then it's like, hey, that didn't work.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's open it up to some people that want to come to our site.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Not all the way, let's just dip the toe.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And then the third one is like mass syndication, MLS, get it out to the populace.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: And so this compass deal that they now have with Redfin and Rocket, they would still keep the office exclusive private through their firewall.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: And then it goes to the delayed marketing, which would be to Redfin slash Rocket.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Tell me how that's not RESPA.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, from what I understand, and I'm not an expert in it, but they're only exclusive of the Redfin.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: It's for all of the brands, I believe.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: And there's some kind of rev share, and all the leads are going to go back to, I believe, I might be wrong, to the uh Compass Anywhere companies.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So how is that not providing exclusivity in a pay-for-play?
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Now, they have attorneys a lot smarter than me, definitely a lot smarter than Gary.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure they know.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, and to throw another wrinkle in that from what I read on Inman News is that those leads also go to Rocket Mortgage.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And mortgage wants to be into it.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: So there's that tie-in, and this is interesting timing.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: If y'all have listened to my podcast, I know uh Craig probably does, and I know Brad doesn't because you know he has his own podcast, but he should listen.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: But we had Waller versus Rocket just came out, in which four different plaintiffs from different areas in the United States all sued Rocket and Redfin, saying that Redfin pushed their agents to use Rocket because Redfin got a financial benefit.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Now, what the agents all claimed is I got paid the same commission regardless of what I do.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: But that's not the point.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: The brokerage made money.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: And so I personally think, and I'll go ahead and predict it right now, I think this is going to be a billion dollar plus settlement by the time this thing is settled.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: I just don't see how they get out of this one.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Zillow's got the same problem.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: Same thing.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: So if we sit here today, Craig, why are we doing all this crap?
12:10
SPEAKER_02: We we just settled a$1.5 billion lawsuit against the association.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: As a member of CMLS, you see all of the legal risk that you have.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it is always under attack from the Department of Injustice, as I call it, or people who just want to break it up.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Why are we doing all this stuff and and putting ourselves in another line of target?
12:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, I have a uh a better question uh for you.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking at some statistics.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm a a stats guy.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the market in our area peaked about 2021 with 16,500 closings essentially.
12:43
SPEAKER_03: We weren't doing any of this back then.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: The market operated very efficiently, effectively, uh, and with a lot of transparency.
12:51
SPEAKER_03: Now that was the peak of the market.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: You fast forward to 2025 and we're down to you know under 14,000 sales with the same rules in place, but the efficiency of the market hasn't changed.
13:03
SPEAKER_03: The demand has changed.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: So I'm really not sure.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: I have some thoughts as to where this came from, but it wasn't because of an inefficiency in the market.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: And it certainly wasn't, Matthew, because your consumers were asking for it.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, were you getting phone calls or your consumers asking you to to create your own portal and get me off of Zillow?
13:20
SPEAKER_02: There was never one phone call that had anything to do with that.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Most of your sellers, in fact, when they call you, want what?
13:26
SPEAKER_02: To be where?
13:27
SPEAKER_02: On Zillow.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: They want to be everywhere.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: They want to be on Zillow.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: They want to be everywhere they possibly could be.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your your agents call me and say it's ridiculous how I would literally sign a seller up today at at 10 o'clock, and by 11 o'clock, they're already calling me going, why is it not on Zillow?
13:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they want it on Zillow within the hour.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know who who all these invisible people are that are pushing for this.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: I think everyone agrees, and tell me if you don't, that if it's visible to the public, even selectively, it's still marketing and it's subject to the MLS and it's subject to the rules of the South Carolina Real Estate Commission.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Everybody agree on that?
13:59
SPEAKER_02: And we move off with this topic?
14:01
SPEAKER_02: Very good.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to me, if it's on any type of public website, it's on the market.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: So now let's talk about coming soon.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: My problem with this coming soon is if it's already being advertised, what exactly is coming soon about it?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if I market it not on the MLS, but I put it on my website, how can I say it's coming soon?
14:18
SPEAKER_02: Because I can guarantee you, if somebody shows up with an offer, it ain't coming soon.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: It's already gotten there.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're already going.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: So let's discuss this for a minute.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: And all three of these models we're talking about today, and let's talk about Compass, Redfin, Rocket.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: You now have Zillow and Keller Williams in some type of arrangement.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: And now you have EXP with their own type of uh forward facing portal.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: So we got these three models, all three of them, if I understand it right, are being publicly displayed in some form, whether selectively or broadly.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: And at what point do we stop calling these pre-marketing or coming soon?
14:50
SPEAKER_02: It's just acknowledge that they're already on the market, Brad.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's all wordplay.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: The coming soon, I call it price fishing fishing.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Let's throw a number out there, but don't start tracking my data yet.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Don't start tracking my days on market in case it doesn't work.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: So it's basically testing the market, kind of, without getting in trouble.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: It's like speeding without having any cops out there.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, let's just see how fast we can go.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that was too fast.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: We wrecked, let's pull back.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's it sounds cool.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: What it should be, if you're going to pre-market, is not forward-facing.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: Give me two weeks to hit my contacts, my lead pools, my database.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Let me go see if I can fish up a market somewhere and bring it back before anybody else knows about it.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: That's technically what pre-marketing and pocket listings are, in my opinion.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: That's that's what it is.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: The other shit is just a wordplay to make them look like Robin Hood trying to save the poor realtors out there so they come work for their damn company.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Matthew, do you think the problem here is HGTV and Bravo?
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Because when you watch these, and and I have to admit, I used to be a huge fan of million-dollar listing.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: I thought Josh Flag and Altman going at it was hilarious.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: All fake, of course.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: They were best friends all along.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: But we always heard about those private listings.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Do we got anything off-market that you can show my client?
15:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I know your clients expected you to have a$100,000 open house with models and Ferraris and athletes.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: But do you think that's part of the problem here?
16:07
SPEAKER_02: Is we've been watching too much of this reality TV, and now everybody thinks that these there's secret listings out there?
16:13
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely feel that HGTV has added to a lot of problems within the real estate market and the non-reality of real estate, if I could say that.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: I just think that listen, the world is at the consumer's fingertips.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: ChatGPT, anything you're going to get an answer, it may not be right, but I absolutely believe that's where we're that's where we're getting a lot of our problems from the consumer, of them not knowing how it should actually work.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it sounds great.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I got a private listing.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: You're the only one who knows about it.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: But when you really delve into what like Brad just said, is it really anything special to me or not?
16:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're only shopping it to a few people and we're really getting the price.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: And we're going to talk about this whole day on market thing in the middle in a minute, about whether that's even legitimate or is that just fraudulent what we're claiming.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: But before we get there, Craig, how does the CMLS handle what we're talking about coming soon?
17:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you look at coming soon like Brad said that's what coming soon is?
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Or is it even less under MLS?
17:06
SPEAKER_02: Is it just coming soon means we don't even have it and we're just marketing it and nobody knows about it?
17:11
SPEAKER_02: What does ML CMLS look at it as?
17:13
SPEAKER_03: We don't even have a coming soon.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: If you're marketing it, it's going to be in the MLS at the same time.
17:18
SPEAKER_03: There's no window to do any of that stuff.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: And like I said before, that's worked very efficiently for us in the past.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: There's no and there's no question.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: The hard part about coming soon, and I talked to lots of people in different markets, is the coming soon comes with its own set of rules.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: And Brad and Matthew both know that because I think they they're in markets that offer that.
17:38
SPEAKER_03: But it's very complex.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: And in my opinion, it is right for people, you know, violating the rules knowingly or unknowingly when you have that opportunity.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: So let's just keep it simple.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but MLS in the Colombian market keeps it very simple.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: When you're marketing it to the public, it's in MLS.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: So let me break that down with you for a second here.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: Let's say I worked at Compass and they and they have this deal with Redfin and Rocket where I can put it on exclusively on their website.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: If I'm a Columbia agent, let's just hypothetically say Compass is here in Columbia, which they're not.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: But they were here in Columbia, and I told my client, we're going to go straight to the RedFan Rocket uh Compass thing.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Am I now in violation of CMLS rules by putting it there and not putting it on the CMLS?
18:20
SPEAKER_03: I think technically, yes, you're in violation of the MLS rules.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: The rub of the challenge becomes enforcement.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: MLS is not in the enforcement game, but the answer to your question is yes.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Technically, you're publicly marketing that property.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: So it would be a violation of a CMLS rule, which at that point the CMLS could issue a fine for violating their rule, and if they continue to violate it, they that could rise to a level of suspension from the MLS.
18:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it has certain levels, but yes, it could could rise that.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: So the only option then that Compass would have is not to be a member of the CMLS here in Columbia and just go straight to that.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, they're violating your rules.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: All right, Matthew, I know that's different in Greenville.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: So tell me how that's different in Greenville on on any of the 847 different MLSs you have to be a member of up there.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: So as I said before, Greater Greenville Association Built for MLS, once a seller signs that listing agreement, it has to be within the MLS within 48 hours, unless the seller chooses the brokerage exclusive option.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not a big believer in the brokerage exclusive option at all.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: I think that houses should be marketed as widely as possible.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: However, I'm not ignorant enough to think that there are not some exceptions to that rule.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: So again, 48 hours, it has to be an MLS.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: But if there's not a brokerage exclusive, no MLS, however, our MLS rule states you will send that listing agreement to the MLS so they have knowledge that your brokerage has a brokerage exclusive listing.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: So and that is very, very important for agents to understand if they miss that, then you're in violation of that rule.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: And that is a hefty fine.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: I've gotten one.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: I've gotten one of a fine from them before.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they don't play around.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: I think it's like 250 out the gate.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: Hey Gary, something else just to mention in terms of the what the MLS offers.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Brad knows this in the Columbia MLS.
20:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's still an option.
20:11
SPEAKER_03: If you you know you have the rare the rare instance where somebody says, hey, I want to put this house on the market, but I don't want it public.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: That opens the door to the conversation that we're talking about with the private listings.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: But the bigger door that's actually a better service to the client is a simple checkbox in the MLS, and it says don't distribute to the MLS.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: So it's available, you're on the market, and all 4,500 agents in the Columbia uh market can have access to that listing, but it's not syndicated to Zillow, it's not syndicated to IDX.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: So there's a certain level of privacy, which to me is a better solution.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: And you're in compliance with all the rules.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And where I saw the case for mainly was years ago in Shandon when people were having houses they wanted to renovate, or maybe they were uh pack rats and they needed to declutter, what they would do is ask you to come advise them as to what they should do to their house, which is of course in violation of your uh agency duties.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: You can't give advice until you have agency.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: But you would come in, you would you would tell them to do this, that, and the other, and they wouldn't sign agency with you.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: And then six months down the road when they're ready to sell, they don't they've already forgotten about you and all the work you did for them, and they're now giving it to their friend who did nothing.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Um and so to stop that, what agents were doing was going ahead and having agency sign, but they would do withhold from MLS.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: But the key to that was you could not market it to anyone outside of your brokerage during that period.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: And they still have that.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: It's 90 days, which is perfect.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: You you said it exactly right.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's the argument people are talking about pocket listings.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, I have to get it staged.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I have to, and we do that.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: We pre inspect, we stage.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: So it does take us some time and we want to be in the law.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: So we go ahead and sign it and withhold it.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Greenville, we have to sign the listing agreement, withhold from the MLS or whatever the uh broker exclusive, not because we're marketing it, just so we can get it ready for the market and advise our clients legally, send them that form and then have a second agreement signed for 30 days later.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That now the first one expires, second one goes live, and now we're in compliance.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is you do have to know what chess pieces to move in every single market, but there are ways to get houses ready without having to have a pocket listing.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: That is an excuse people are using, and it's not real.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: See, for me, that's a true coming soon.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: And the only person that knows that I have that isn't some other brokerage, it's people within my own brokerage.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't have a problem with that.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: I think that's fine.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: My problem I have with it is when I start marketing it everywhere else, and then I'm not putting it on the MLS because what I'm doing is selecting who gets to see the property.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: And when you start selecting who gets to see the property, you're also selecting who does not get to see the property.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: And if you are in a not in a minority-based real estate brokerage and you aren't selecting to show it to other minority-based real estate brokerage firms, guess who's not seeing it?
22:48
SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden, one of your minorities aren't seeing your property.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: And I had heard a story, I think it was in Virginia, one of these, I can't remember which state it was, it was north of us, that they were doing these private listings.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: And what they were doing to try to get around the concern of fair housing is that one of them had a friend who worked at a minority-based uh brokerage, and they would send it to him so that if anybody ever complained, they're like, well, we gave it to this guy.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's literally playing games with people's lives and the people's ability to get houses.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, one thing, before, I mean, I I do have a problem, obviously being the small guy, you know, we do 250 transactions a year.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Matthew and them do thousands.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Craig does that, I mean, they do a ton of deals.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So even if they kept it in-house, it is in essence like giving me the Heisman straight arm of because Matthew could sell every listing in-house in his company.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: The question is, is it his broker, him as a broker?
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Is it all of the CDM brokers?
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, where does that and where's that start stop and start?
23:35
SPEAKER_00: But you would be holding out all the small guys like me from ever getting the ability to show and sell houses if they only did it inside a brokerage.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: So that is a little bit of an issue.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: And if you look at a market like Shandon in Columbia, there's really Brad's company and maybe one or two others that get about 95% of the listings.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: And so even on a small market aspect, if Brad and those other two companies said, hey, you know what, we're not going to share them out anymore.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: We're just going to keep them in-house, then that pretty much eliminates anybody from ever buying in Shandon unless you use one of those three companies.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: And that's not good for consumer choice.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: That's not good for fair housing.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: That's not good at all.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: So I do have a problem with that.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: Matthew, you talked a few minutes ago about you said you were uh you were you're smart enough to recognize there are some exceptions to the rules.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: The broker exclusivity is allowed by NAR's own policy, which they said, you know, you have to get it on MLS, but you could market it internally.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: What are some of those exceptions you think would be a fair exception?
24:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, a seller's just, you know, he's been talked into this is not an exception to me.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: What are the exceptions you see?
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: So when I first started at CDN Journer back in October of 2015, we were coming up on the holiday season.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: And what I was hearing in the local market at that time, probably still is today, was I don't want to put my house on the market throughout Thanksgiving, while Christmas, or whatever other holiday people were celebrating.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: I'll wait till after the first of the year.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And I looked at that and I said, hold on, how many listings do our agents go out on and walk away from that?
25:03
SPEAKER_01: And then after the first of the year, they find out that that same person they talked to actually listed with somebody else.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how do I get in front of that?
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So I think that would be an exception of hey, you got family coming in, you're you know, Christmas and everything else, you want to get through, yeah, get that brokerage exclusive, be able to advise your fiduciary duties and then get it on the market after the holidays.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: That would be one.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, if you're if you have an elderly parent in the home, maybe it's they can't show the house properly because of the current health situation.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: There are some exceptions.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Again, those are few and far between.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: However, the main one is yeah, we got a person that needs to get some painting done.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: We have to get photos done, we have to get staging.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And I don't like our agents having to do all of this work and not be able to market the property correctly during that 48-hour time.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: It's just a lot to do in that in that type of time frame.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: So there are some exceptions to that.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: I could see maybe domestic violence.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: If I'm a victim of domestic violence, I don't necessarily want everybody in the world to know my house is for sale because I don't want maybe my ex-fouse to find out about it.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, celebrity is the one that everybody talks about.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: And other than when when Dabo or Shane Beamer gets fired, which might be next year, you know, what celebrities do we really have in South Carolina?
26:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, really.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if Dabo puts his house up for sale next year when he gets fired, does anybody really I guess there would be some Clemson fans who want to go look at his house and see what he's got.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: I can understand him.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: But Brad Allen putting his house up for sale.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: I know he's a big podcaster and all.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: We're not celebrities.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: We're just not.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: I've got a champagne room in my house, man.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to see that.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that here we are.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, the bottom line is you you can limit who sees it, but you can't say it hasn't been seen.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: It's like saying you can't advertise something and then pretend it's not for sale.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: And that's my whole problem here is they try to act like both sides.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm showing it but only to these people, but it doesn't count for days on the market because not everybody's seeing it.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: So let's roll now into talking about these different models a little bit more in detail.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: We've talked about the compass, the Zillow model.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: It's about limited exposure, it's about controlling the ecosystem.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: It's interesting when you look at these broad exposure models, you have syndicated across multiple portals.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Like when you look at an MLS, it's not just in MLS that is being marketed, it's through all of the portals.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: It goes out to the Zillows, it goes out to the RedFens, it goes out to the Colwell bankers, it goes out to KWs, it's everywhere.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Should we have a concept that if it's going to be marketed, everyone should see it?
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Or should we have a concept other than these exceptions that you guys talked about, where we don't have limitations?
27:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really the question here.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, real quick, I think there's a really muddy part here.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Back before, all I can think of is before pandemic, after pandemic, but before pandemic, flew me and a MLS staff person out to Vegas because they wanted our direct feeds, and we were not giving it to them at the time.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Remember the whole crap show that went down back in like 2017?
27:51
SPEAKER_00: So then they got smart and they became a brokerage.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, they're a brokerage part of NAR.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: They get an IDX feed just like I get.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: So is Redfin.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: So now what you're telling me is another member of NAR, whatever the rules are, are now blocking me from putting up coming soon on their website, although they're getting all the lit all this listings and stuff from IDX feeds, but now they're caught, they're locking me out, they're locking Matthew out, they're locking Craig out, actually.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: How is that even allowed?
28:18
SPEAKER_00: How is that not uh some sort of quagmire of anti-trap I don't even know what anti-crap it is?
28:23
SPEAKER_00: It's something.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: How can they do that?
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Brad is is is presenting um Refkin's argument better than Refkin even does.
28:30
SPEAKER_02: Refkin gaslights us and says it's about consumer choice, but the reality of it is it's about control of the data.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're all smart enough to know that.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: But I think the way Brad you you described it there is a lot better argument of why I have to do something different.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, is Refkin's model what he's coming up with really better for the consumers?
28:46
SPEAKER_02: Is it just better for Refkin?
28:47
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Dude, look at Redfin, I would be curious to see what Redfin's viewer count is from South Carolina.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: They're not a small comp, they're not a big company in our market.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: They're huge out west, and I'm sure their viewers are a lot out there.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: But you're saying that you're gonna put all these listings from South Carolina on that site.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: I guarantee nine out of ten of my consumers don't know what Redfin is.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: They've never heard of it.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: They're going to Zillow.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: And the the focus has really been on this seller choice mantra, right?
29:12
SPEAKER_03: That's what we keep hearing is seller choice and everything like that.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: But we're completely losing transparency and you know, newsflash, there's another side to the transaction.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and that's the point.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Which we need right now.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's where I've been saying all along.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: If Refkin was just say, tell us the truth and say the real estate industry is at a crossroads, we've been squeezed from every direction, and we've trying to get our bottom line up, I could respect what he's doing.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: But when he comes out and and and couches this as this is about consumer choice, when as Matthew said at the very beginning, not a single consumer he's ever talked to has actually advocated or asked for this.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like we're going backwards to, and Craig and I talked about this the other day.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, at what point are we going to start going back to the book?
29:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if we want to really keep that locked down, we can go back to that real estate book we had in the 1990s, and nobody will see what I got.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: You got to call me particular and you know, and and then meet with me face to face.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, are we going backwards now, Craig?
30:05
SPEAKER_02: It seems like we are.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: I s I sat up in bed last night.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: I was really nervous about this podcast, and I had this thought.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: And it's you knew I'm such a hard-hitting host.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: So it's called the uh it's shiny object syndrome, right?
30:20
SPEAKER_03: So in the real estate world, somebody does it, everybody else thinks, oh gosh, if they're doing it, I have to follow suit.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: We don't even know if this is a total bust, if it's gonna be a total success, or what it's gonna be.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: And and nor do we know the potentially the real reason.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: We we hear the lines about you know, the party line about what why it exists and things like that.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: But there's three very successful uh real estate agents and brokers on this call.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: I've been 24 years, I've never had somebody say, Hey, Craig, I really want you to put this, you know, somewhere where only a handful of people can see my listing instead of the whole lab world.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: But it's that syndrome where we follow what somebody else is doing kind of blindly with an assumption that, hey, this is gonna be what's coming next.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: When to your point, we're going backwards.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: All three of these models and the people who created them says that it's it benefits the seller.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Can all three of these people be right?
31:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, only if you ask them.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think you had a really good example the other day, or somebody did, where you know, a a lady had a house listed and it was on a private network, she didn't feel good about it, put it on the MLS and then got offered a lot more.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: So to me, and that was in your podcast that I listen to, by the way.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but to me, that's the perfect that's the perfect example of you know how this idea can go wrong.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, if one of our models expands exposure and you have a second model that restricts it, how can we sit here with a straight face and say that both of these models are both in the seller's best interest?
31:52
SPEAKER_02: And that that's what ref, and see there's no answer to that, and that's what Refkin keeps saying.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: There's multiple ways of doing this.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, not both both ways can't be in the best interest.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: You got one model out there is limiting the listings where they appear, you got another that distributes it broadly across multiple platforms.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: That's what MLS does.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: So, how do we evaluate which approach is going to truly serve the seller's best interest?
32:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, which one do y'all think serves the seller's best interest?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what is your duty to the seller?
32:16
SPEAKER_02: Is it getting them what?
32:17
SPEAKER_02: The best offer.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: And is there any empirical evidence that says restricting the number of eyeballs to a listing is going to get us better offers?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: No.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean here's what's happening.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: The only person that's benefiting is Refkin.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's benefiting him because, and I'm gonna go on the limb here, and Gary's my attorney, so you can talk to him if I get sued.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: But now he's now he's the smartest attorney I know, by the way.
32:39
unknown: Thank you.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Actually, just have Cynthia come in real quick.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: I want to talk to her.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: But he's doing this because he just merged two massive companies.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: In some markets, they have 60% market share.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
32:48
SPEAKER_00: He's also losing agents, and I'm not knocking him for that.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: That just happens.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: When you take over, people tend to go to their second choice.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: So he's doing this knight in shining armor.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Let me help you, let me do this.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the time, he is a venture capitalist that his mom is the only connection to real estate he's ever had.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: So he's trying to drum up the bottom line.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And so he thinks if he does this, I bet the stocks went up when he went with Redfin.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Now he's doing this.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: He looks like he's the savior.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: He's trying to keep his agents in check.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Zillow had to do this because Redfin had to do that.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And so did an EXP.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: They did the same thing.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: They went a step further and said, we're going to go on three different platforms, not just one.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: But I sat at Inmin and I heard almost every single executive, Howard Hannah, long and not long and foster, it doesn't matter who otherwise, a lot of those guys up there were saying, if they do this, we have to do this.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to, but if they do it, we have to.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's what's happening.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: So Refkin's doing nothing but patting the stock price.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: That is it.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: It does not help anybody.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't help his agents, does not help anybody.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think what he's doing is doing, hey, look over here, and I bet he's going to start rolling off some of his companies here in a second.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what he's doing.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, I talked to somebody who is high up in anywhere, and that's their their belief was that yes, that's what was going to happen.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: They're going to start rolling off some of these companies.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: It's a short-term, to me, it's short-term, not long term.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: Because long term, you have to think of this if you're Refkin and say, if I take my 35% of all the listings nationwide to my private listing, are the other 65 going to let me do that and not reciprocate?
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And if they do it and reciprocate, then I have my 35, but I just lost the 65.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he can't be so dumb to think that Keller Williams and EXP and everybody else was just going to sit there and let him get access to all their listings and then take all of his private and just let him have his day.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: He had to know they were going to reciprocate and do the same thing.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, his big fighting words right now are you're no association in the country, trade association, finds their own people.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: That's his big thing.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And he just came out Yeah, with the Northwest Association of whatever he's suing them.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: He just came out with the Facebook ad or Instagram that said, if my agents get sued, not sued, if they get in trouble or fined, we will come defend you.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: So what he's doing is he's rallying all the uh the non-believers in NAR, all the non-believers and rules of MLS, the ones that complain anyways, and saying, come work for me because that way they shouldn't be fining you.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: But let's be honest, we don't have a federal trade commission that oversees our industry like other people do.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: So we have to self-regulate because we're an ethical association and we have to make sure people play by the rules.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: And you only do that with fines.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: So if we had an FTC that would fine us, like they find the stock people, cool, but they don't.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: So we have to do it ourselves.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: Or a court that oversees like lawyers.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: And the argument is so so disingenuous because, again, the industry he's in just got hit for a$1.5 billion verdict.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: And now, what was one of the rules from that?
35:33
SPEAKER_02: We can no longer advertise compensation on the multiple listing service for the other broker.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: If we can't fine you and can't penalize you for doing so, what is to prevent some agent from saying, well, I work at Compass, they can't find me, so I'm gonna go out and put every single listing with a co-op brokerage fee on the MLS and dare the MLS to do anything about it.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, he just settled a lawsuit on that for$1.5 billion.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: So he's he's actually a jackass when he says that.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: The agent count goes up, stock prices go up, rides off into the sunset.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: He sells and he gets out and he becomes very wealthy.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: What do venture capitalists do?
36:06
SPEAKER_00: They don't buy it to make the industry better.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: They buy it to like devour it, get stock prices up, get the hell out.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Five years.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: That's what venture capitalists do.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: They they rinse and repeat.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: It's not that hard to watch the trail.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: So do y'all think that we're heading away from single platform and we are literally going to bifurcate this thing or or fragment it like it is in Europe?
36:25
SPEAKER_02: Because I don't know if y'all know much about Europe, but Leo Perey and I talked about Europe.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: He's like, look, if you're in Madrid and you want to buy a house, you're going to 17 or 18 different websites.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: There's no centralized website for anything.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: Do y'all see us fragmenting into that now with all of this happening?
36:40
SPEAKER_02: It could, for sure.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: MLSs are going to become irrelevant pretty soon.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: I agree with you, Brad.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what's going to happen.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, and the bad part about all that is, you know, everybody on this call is really interested in keeping in tune with what the market's doing, right?
36:54
SPEAKER_03: Everybody here gets asked that every single day.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: What's the market doing?
36:57
SPEAKER_03: If we go down this road of fragmentation, how do we know that?
37:00
SPEAKER_03: How do appraisers get the data that they need?
37:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's a it's a bigger ball of wax here that's starting to, you know, melt that nobody's talking about.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: I had a conversation with an appraiser today, and you know, the uh they're real concerned with a lack of accurate, number one, and then transparent data.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and if we go away from the MLS, it's not going to make things better.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: Is the MLS perfect?
37:23
SPEAKER_02: I think everybody on here would agree it's not perfect.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: And all three of y'all have served on the board.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: You know, is the Realtors Association perfect?
37:30
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: We've all been heavily involved in it.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: But anytime you put human beings in anything, it's not perfect.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we look from the beginning of the formation of the church.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: They weren't happy with the whole Bible is based on letters written to people in the church about how mad they were about how the church was being handled because we're human beings, and anytime you put human beings in any organization, any groups, it's going to get screwed up.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: But it's hard to believe that Refkin is so stupid that he's not looking at what the consequences are going to be.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: I think to me, the more benign answer is Refkin knows damn well what's going to happen.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't care because his job is to get the stock value up, the agent count up, spin off a bunch of sections of this company that are from anywhere that aren't profitable, and we know a lot of them aren't profitable, and then at that point sell compass and he he parachutes out with a lot of money.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: It's the only thing that makes any sense to me.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, that or a nasty term is we're gonna have to get a federal government oversight of real estate.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to have one big thing is all good out.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna have to have one big rule.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Like it's gonna take one senator that's gonna go look for a house next month when all this shit's going down and realize, like Craig and I mentioned this, like he realized that the house that he thought he bought in three days was actually on the market for 90 and he would have offered different.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Or he can't find a house because his agent has to go to 17 different platforms and he loses out.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: And it takes one person that's gonna go in there and nobody's gonna fight it.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Anybody gonna defend the real estate industry?
38:51
SPEAKER_00: No.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be like, yo, we gotta and all the all the prices go in one pot, all the appraisers are gonna go to one pot, and that's what's gonna have to happen if it keeps down this road.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh because if not, the lawsuits are gonna pick everybody off to death.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: I think the fair housing is where it's gonna go.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna be the black caucus is gonna start figuring out that African Americans cannot get access to houses because they're using African-American agents who aren't part of the big agencies who aren't getting access to these properties and they're being frozen out of areas.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: It's that simple.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: You throw fair housing in.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: I don't care who you are.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Right now we got lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit, and these people think we're just gonna keep doing this stuff and not get sued.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's move over to something you did talk about a second ago.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: I heard you say the word days on the market.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: Some platforms are trying to hide this or suppress the days on the market, but does suppressing or hiding days on the market change the reality of it that it is on the market?
39:38
SPEAKER_02: I think this is the biggest fraudulent thing that real estate agents have always done.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: We put a house on the market for 90 days.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: Let's take it off for three weeks and put it back on and start our days on the market over again.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: That's not that's complete fraud.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Most MLSs have a cumulative.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: No, they have a cumulative MLS.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Like the most agents don't realize we all now have cumulative days on market.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: So you can take it off for three months.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: It's Zillow and everybody else are going to keep ticking that clock as long as you've got that thing on there.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't help crap to keep it off the MLS, keep off days on market.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, Craig, the big argument they have is that's unfair to the sellers.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Is it unfair to the sellers, or is it just reality?
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Days on market or days on market is not supposed to benefit a seller or a buyer.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's I mean to me, it's the reality of the market.
40:17
SPEAKER_03: And it's it goes back to you said it first, transparency, right?
40:20
SPEAKER_03: So we we we owe some, you know, a certain level of transparency, I believe.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: We can't hide the fact that your house has a leaky roof, right?
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Nor should we hide the fact that it uh what the correct and accurate days on market are.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: That's uh that's an important part of the process.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: Again, because we're all of these conversations center around the seller, right?
40:40
SPEAKER_03: But what does your average buyer say?
40:42
SPEAKER_03: The average buyer is gonna say, hey, I want to know how long that house has been on the market.
40:46
SPEAKER_03: Because that's one of the questions they ask.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: How big is it?
40:48
SPEAKER_03: How much is it?
40:49
SPEAKER_03: How long has it been on the market?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: You know what we should do?
40:51
SPEAKER_00: We should display how many showings they've gotten next to the days on market.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: That'll really screw people over.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Like 47 people said no to this house.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: You sure you want it?
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you good?
41:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, and the reality of it is days on market can be a problem for a seller if it's set up for 90 days, but days on the market can also help a seller if that I look at that property on day one or day two, and I'm like, hey, this market, this house has only been on the market for a day or two, you're gonna have to come strong because they haven't even had a chance for other people to look at this house.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: I want to come a little stronger if I want this house because it hadn't been sitting at all.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: It's brand new.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: So I think it goes both ways.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it always cuts against the seller.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: If they do this pre-listing stuff and it's been on the market for 90 days on Redfin and it hasn't shown up in the Columbia MLS, and then somebody goes in with a strong offer on two days, aren't they making a decision based on false premises?
41:35
SPEAKER_02: I I think so.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's where I'm a concern that these lawsuits are going to start happening when people start finding out this property was secretly marketed internally.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Or even worse, um, how about the seller?
41:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the whole reason the MLS has this role in the first place is because this happened in California where multiple sellers in a neighborhood did broker exclusives, and then they then somebody didn't do a broker exclusive and got a whole lot more money when they sold their house.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden, they're like, wait a minute, if we wouldn't have done a broker exclusive, we could have made more money.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: So talk to me about that for a minute.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm really worried about this fiduciary duty issue.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: We have a fiduciary duty to do what's in the financial best interest for the seller.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: When we are talking about all three of these models, my question for you is whose best interest are we talking about these models for?
42:18
SPEAKER_00: We have sold stuff like when we're getting it ready, when my agents has a buyer that said, Can I see it?
42:22
SPEAKER_00: And we have some parameters in our MLS to be able to do that.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: You'll see zero days on market.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: But I still have my seller sign an agreement saying this may not be your best and highest offer because it has not hit in the open market yet.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: You may get a better offer if you let us put this on the MLS.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: But if you want to take this offer before it goes live, that's fine.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm okay with it, obviously.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: But I don't see how doing what these people want to do is not breaking fiduciary.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: You're you're not.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Unless it's a hundred million dollar house and there's like five people in the world that can buy it, why would you not?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand it.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: Gary, let me a let me ask you this, Gary.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: So you go back to 2021.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: If this practice had been in place in 2021, how many lawsuits would be uh in the works right now?
43:00
SPEAKER_02: That's a good point.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: Because putting a house on the market was getting 20, 30, 40 offers and the prices were going up on all the offers.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: Versus an exclusive.
43:07
SPEAKER_03: So again, I go back to things weren't broken then.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: Uh they're not broken now.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: Could they be better or tweaked?
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: But that's what I would say is hey, let's go back to what it would look like then.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: I guarantee you there'd be some major, major lawsuits happening right now.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: And Mario Yubanski or whatever the guy's name is out in California, he he's was on million-dollar listing some.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Mauricio, yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: He he annoys me because he always talks about you know his private clients and they how they need privacy.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: But yet on every one of those shows, when he's trying to get that$100 million listing, what is he arguing about?
43:40
SPEAKER_02: I have the biggest reach worldwide.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: I can get you in front of eyeballs in Hong Kong, in London, and all these places.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: So even at that level, they're still talking about how exposure is the absolute biggest thing, even when they're trying to keep it private.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: So they they they admit what they're trying to hide from us.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, so for me, and I want to be clear for everybody, I say this every day.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Every show.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: We are all brand agnostic.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, these gentlemen obviously like their brands the best, but we're not here to pick on compass or Redfin or anybody.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: This isn't about that.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: We're trying to get to the heart of the matter and what this is about.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: But I've always said, I'll call it out.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: I'll call it out when I see it.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't care what your company is.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: If your company's doing dumb shit, I'm going to call you out on it.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: How can an agent literally sit in front of a seller and say, we need to do this as an office exclusive for 30 days so we can test the market instead of just going straight out?
44:28
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm sorry, I've yet to see any client say, I want to sell a house, but Matthew, I'd like you to hold it for 30 days and let's test the market so I can get a price on it and then we'll go out and who the hell says that?
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Don't they just come to you and say, I want appraised value or higher, put it on the market tomorrow and get it sold tomorrow?
44:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's exactly right.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, do we do we do broke brokerage exclusives at my firm?
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: Do we try to do it?
44:55
SPEAKER_01: No, we don't.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: We again, we we do it at the least amount possible.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: But what I can say is, even some of our brokerage exclusives, most of the time, we're not seeing another agent from within the same firm bring the buyer.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not until we get it on the MLS, and that's when things start to happen because it's so limiting on a brokerage exclusive level like that.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we don't, we don't really push that.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Because again, going back to fiduciary duties, like you're saying, we have got to make sure that we're doing the very best and everything possible to market that property.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: And what Summer Gorlich, who's a a real estate investigator out in California, said, she said, when your office does like you, you have one or two here and there.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: That shows that this is not something that your company's pushing.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: This is truly a consumer choice.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: There's a particular reason that's necessary here.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: But when your company advertises openly that we're going to push everybody that we can to this, and you have a policy that results in 35% of all their listings going to private exclusives, then this isn't a consumer choice.
45:54
SPEAKER_02: This is a consumer push.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: This is where we're pushing consumers to do what's really in our best financial interest.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: Craig, how do we get informed consent on something like that?
46:03
SPEAKER_02: Because everybody's like, oh, as long as they sign a form, but is it is there really enough you can explain to a consumer to truly cover your ass on this?
46:11
SPEAKER_03: Not, not in my opinion.
46:12
SPEAKER_03: Because you think about it, I don't know the statistics, but there's a statistic out there that says most people list with the first person that they meet with in a lot of cases.
46:20
SPEAKER_03: So they're not getting a lot of contrarying opinions to this, right?
46:25
SPEAKER_03: So if all they hear is one opinion and that's what they believe, I don't care what kind of consent you have, uh, because some attorney is going to come uh come along down the road and say that, hey, you gave this a suggestion and it was self-serving.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly right.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: There's a plaintiff's lawyer out there all day long, regardless of what you signed.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: They didn't understand it, you didn't explain it, it was shoved to them with a bunch of documents.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: This document doesn't even say what you say it says it says.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: As we finish up here, one of the arguments that we're hearing, a little bit of credibility to it, is the MLS outdated?
46:57
SPEAKER_02: And can the MLS make some adaptations, changes that could make a difference here?
47:04
SPEAKER_02: Or is this genie out the bottle and this has nothing to do with MLS?
47:08
SPEAKER_02: It's just their excuse.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: I don't take that one.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: So so we've talked a little bit about it, but not in detail, this delayed listing.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: And so several months ago that we put out this rule, the Greater Grieval Association of Realtors and the MLS voted that there's not going to be any time frame on this delayed listing, which means it only goes in MLS.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: And Craig touched on it a little bit before, and it's not syndicated out.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Again, this has gone on several months ago.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: I have not had one agent.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: I've got almost 245 agents in my office alone.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Not one time has my company done this type of listing.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Would that help possibly?
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Just having it just we keep all of our own data and instead of syndicating out, maybe.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: But again, going back to what is the consumer want consumer choice?
47:56
SPEAKER_01: They want it on Zillow.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: That's the reason why we've not had one.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: Brad, do you wanted to add?
48:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's outdated or antiquated.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: What I think, and this is going to get me some hate mail, I'm suggesting it to Gary at BlairKato.com if you want to get to me.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: I'll forward it to Brad.
48:08
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean this with the utmost respect.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: We can't let the inmates run the asylum.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean is agents that have been in the business one, two, three years that feel like they're oppressed because they have to follow some damn rules.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: The rules are there for a plethora of reasons, and the MLSs have evolved over the last 50 years.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: But what it's also done is allowed me to see listings that come to my phone just like when they get to Craig's phone.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: And it allows the best man to go in, the best offer to go in.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: It lets the consumer to get out to almost every single portal in 15 minutes.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: My staff can't get it on every portal manually in 15 minutes.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: So I think the MLS is there for consistency and transparency, consumer protection.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: The buyers know what they're getting themselves into.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: They know what's going on, they have disclosures, they know who's coming in their house, they've agreed to a lockbox.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: Like this sets the rules for everybody.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: And if it goes away from this, it is going to be the Wild West and it's going to be worse for the agents.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Let alone buyers' agents, you're screwed.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: You're done.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: You got to keep touch with 47 different websites now.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: You got to go on statistics you're telling your buyers that you're not sure of.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: And your buyers are going to sue you because you didn't find that one listing on that one site on AlaskaOpenhouses.com and you told them it's only two days on the market.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: It's been 127 days on the market.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Your fiduciary is reasonable, skill, and care.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: So you're screwed because that is such a subjective fiduciary duties.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not good.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: And this is why we have rules in this country and everything else, is because we all need to play by something.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: So the MLS is like an HOA.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: Nobody likes it until your neighbor parks a camper in the driveway for two weeks.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden the HOA is your best friend.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: Well, and nobody and nobody likes nobody likes rules, right?
49:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't like driving a speed limit, but we do.
49:43
SPEAKER_03: But you know, Brad touched on all the really good points there.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: The only other one I would add to that is efficiency.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: So for everything that you think people think the could be fixed with the MLS, there is a super high level of efficiency uh in transmitting data meaning listings to not only agents but to the public in a uh non-biased, fair equitable manner.
50:05
SPEAKER_02: As the rules sit today, Craig, with the MLS, is this a big nothing burger in Colombia because they can't do what they want to do with our current rules?
50:14
SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask that to you and then ask it to Matthew with all the different MLSs he has.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: So Craig, is this a big nothing burger in the Columbia market, for example?
50:20
SPEAKER_03: In the Columbia market with current rules, yes.
50:22
SPEAKER_02: And Matthew, in the upstate, I guess it's based on which one they select.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: So it could matter in some parts of South Carolina, it could matter not at all.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: All right, quick lightning round, yes or no?
50:33
SPEAKER_02: All three of these platforms, is it marketing, yes or no?
50:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
50:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: Is this a fiduciary problem trying to talk to your seller into using this platform?
50:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Should buyers have to search multiple platforms in order to find houses?
50:46
SPEAKER_02: That's up to them.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: No, correct?
50:48
SPEAKER_02: No.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Does limiting exposure help sellers sell houses?
50:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, not that aware of.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: And my final question is do these three platforms help the broker over the consumer?
50:59
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: And there you have it.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, that's all the time that we have for our show today.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: I think we've examined this pretty pretty thoroughly here today.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: I think the bottom line is, is the question that we all need to be asking ourselves for these platforms that your companies are putting together, is this better for the consumer or is this just about more control or a better opportunity for your brokers to get both sides of the listing?
51:22
SPEAKER_02: And if that's the case, you have to put your license before what your brokerage or whatever they want to do.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Because remember, as I've told you this many times before, when it comes to these seller bonuses and these builder bonuses, the builders aren't governed by the real estate commission.
51:37
SPEAKER_02: So it's not their license that's going to be brought before the commission.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be your license, you, the individual.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: So you, the individual, need to think hard about doing these things and pushing these things.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Am I doing this because it benefits my brokerage, my broker, or myself financially, or is it better for my consumer?
51:54
SPEAKER_02: Matthew said it.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: Brad said it a couple times.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: There was a few exceptions you can have, you know, domestic violence or somebody wants to list a house to fix it up.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: But those exceptions are few and far in between.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: So when your whole business strategy is everybody goes into it, that's going to be a problem.
52:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, I hope everybody enjoyed it.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: Craig, Matthew, Brad, thank y'all very much for being back with us.
52:14
SPEAKER_02: We want to keep the band together and do this again.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: Makes my life a lot easier.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: Letting y'all do all the talking, most of the talking.
52:19
SPEAKER_02: I still talk a lot.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Gary.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Please like and subscribe to us.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: Come back again and see us again next week for another episode of Dish and Dirt.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: Y'all take care.