Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / EP 2 | ETHICAL - Non-Monogamy

Transcript

EP 2 | ETHICAL - Non-Monogamy · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking a result of anything heard on this platform.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, everybody.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is our first episode of the podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And cut.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Rolling start.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, everybody.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Joe King.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is our first episode of our podcast here where we bring all different kinds of topics together.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the main ones we're focusing on are kinky, geeky, and non-monogamy topics.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Joe King.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And to my left, I have...
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Lennox.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lennox.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then to my right, I have...
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Dame.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we are here...
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Talk shit
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: about shit we want to talk about.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was from an episode that you'll hear about later.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not our first episode, like this one here.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely our first episode.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is our first episode.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to focus on the ethical non-monomony
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: banner.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: As
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: you can probably tell, those are not our real names.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm three.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Three
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: drinks in.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: We are sea anemones.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Two of us have been in a nom-a-nom relationship for two and a half years now.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: The other one has been on and off.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And does anybody want to go first?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be clear instead of the anemone thing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't been in an anonymous relationship.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said nom-a-nom.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't say it was sea anemone.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're sea anemone, which is...
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I said we were nom-a-nom.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's the topic again?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Ethical monogamy.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do it again.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Ethical monogamy.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Ethical non-monogamy.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Ethical
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: non-monogamy.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: The umbrella term for relationship dynamics such as polyamory or swinging or open and more.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Ethical sluts, I guess.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ethical sluts.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hot wives.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hot wives.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Cuck holding.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Cuck queening.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Cuck wives, yeah.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Keep on going.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: On top of all that, but not cheating because that's non-ethical non-monogamy, allegedly.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just non-ethical,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's not nice.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's not nice.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about this.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Due diligence, yes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know I, for one, believe in consent.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody doesn't know what's going on, then that's not consensual.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's consensual.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think, let's just break down each ethical ethical yeah and i
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: think they've changed the term too now it's consensual non-monogamy they've actually started to get rid of the ethical because ethics
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: i know scratch that out
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: scratch it out this is an episode about consensual non-monogamy because ethics are subjective to a culture
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: okay so um nobody knows this but you're our what academic oh i yeah i
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: have um i have a background in uh like social science And I do a lot of research for fun on
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: the side in these topics.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: You bring what to the podcast?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I bring a research base.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And my own personal ass bias.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you said research base.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I kind of have a research background in this.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not published yet, but I am kind of working
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: on it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to talk about it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to talk about what I actually am.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because even though certain people think it's boring.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's not pointing at me, and that's good.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first time he's not pointing at me.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the fucking scapegoat
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: right
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: now.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Mr.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Joe King.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the host and editor of this thing, and I'm just here to talk shit.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I surround myself with smarter people than I am, because to my right is Dame.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: As you should.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she is...
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say an experienced lifestyle.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get too technical.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to lose
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm experienced in the BDSM lifestyle.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have experience in the consensual non-monogamy lifestyle.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not always good.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not always one that you would...
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not my lead foot, but...
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Put the little slash through E-N-E-M and then put C-N-E-M.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: They started calling it consensual because I thought So I'm here to just, I'm here to talk shit, play host.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then everybody else is going to be serious.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we got a researcher, shit talker, and then educator, I guess.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great way to put it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to put it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So me as the shit talking person, consensual, what the hell does that mean?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: It means everybody has informed awareness, knowledge.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Are these sane people, sober people?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: we're going that deep.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Safe, sane,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: and consensual.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: We'll break it down.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, there's different acronyms.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, you can even go back further.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we changing from ethical to consensual?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just told you.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she just said it.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because ethics are subjective to a culture or a society.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: What culture?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: American or European.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: so what did it mean before?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ethics in
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: different religions are completely different things.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Some religions, it's ethical to stone somebody to death.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Other ones, that's probably not a good idea.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So society
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: defines ethics.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you say ethical, meaning?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning what, exactly?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You just keep saying the same word over again.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by ethics?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: The
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: definition of ethics?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let me look it up on my phone.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I got you.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be specific.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, you're asking a specific question.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're asking a specific question.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is your definition of ethics?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is a standard definition.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: interpretation.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's not theory.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: is not a...
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you couldn't tell, I'm the geek of the group, so the nerds are looking up on their phone.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: See, I just got trolled and baited by my own ethically non-monogamous...
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So ethics to the person that is being the consensual non-monogamer might be like, well, it was ethical to me to not tell you about this, so I'm sorry that your ethics didn't match mine, but here's where it brings the other person into play is consent.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, it's consensual non-monogamy.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Both people have agreed.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: At its simplest, ethics is a system of moral principles.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Ethic is concerned with what is good for individuals and society and it's also described as moral philosophy.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're saying as a quote-unquote cheater that didn't tell their partner that they were sleeping with somebody else.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: they had poor ethics.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And their morals
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: were shitty.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Their morals were shitty.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: That might have been
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: okay with them.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: But it could have been part of their cultural background to have multiple people and it not require them to know So are their ethics really shitty or are they just a product of their conditioning based on their culture?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Their ethics are individualized versus consent is involving both parties that are in this.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying that morally I cheated but I'm okay with it.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So are my morals shitty to me or to non-cheaters?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you are basing it on the ethics of the culture you were raised in...
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Then it would be fine.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Then it is not...
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's ethical to you, but it's still not consensual.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So my thing is, okay, so my culture, my original culture, they...
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Black or
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Filipino?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is our first episode.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to find out...
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: culture are you talking about?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which one?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to find
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: out over the course of this podcast.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Since this is the first time that people are hearing this, I am three-fourths black and one-fourth Filipino.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: But in my household, I was raised Filipino by my mother who is half black and half Filipino She didn't really relate to her black side.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was more the Filipino side.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So growing up in the Philippines from when I was born until I was about five years old, the norm there is people get married, they have kids, but then they sleep around a lot.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: They don't tell their spouses.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's normal to have like two or three girlfriends with your wife.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And big thing in the Philippines, there's no official marriage.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: You just kind of live together and it's like, this is my wife.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's just like, oh, okay.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no actual paper or anything.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just have kids together and you're living with...
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: You have a nesting
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: partner is what we would call it in non-monogamy.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know what that is there.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But they live either in their parents' house or your parents' house.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're living there and then everybody's taking care of the kids.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it is common there to have multiple girlfriends.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Air quotes.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Only
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: girlfriends or multiple boyfriends?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Girlfriends.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: The wives or the females.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can have girlfriends?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: One penis policy.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: One penis
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: policy.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: One penis policy because the women are at home taking care of the kids while the guy is out gallivanting around this is third world culture so the women are taking care of the house
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: they homestead
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: yes my oldest cousin she actually has a job so she has kids and she's but she's the head of the household so and her husband actually has a good I think it's like an accountant or something like that those two are the head of the household because they're oldest ones he's
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: screwing around too
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: no he actually because he actually works
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: yeah
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: the other ones are like
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: yeah they're wishy-washy
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: yeah Yeah, exactly.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just go out and sell their wild oats because they're like...
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's a singer, so you know how that works.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: artist, baby.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: So to them, that is the norm.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody knows that that happens.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, the women are not cool with it.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then some of the guys are like, ah, the guy's a piece of shit.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't be with him.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So my question, having that kind of background, is that morally right?
• 10:55
  UNKNOWN: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It depends
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: on the morals of the country.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because according to the culture, that's the norm.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Norms aren't morality.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Ethically, right, yes.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Morally,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: no.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's accepted by the culture even though people don't like it?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: They still accept it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Cultural ethics.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: An ethical code.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: What the fuck?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there is actually a difference between morals and ethics too and I don't really want to get into that because it's really dicey and it's really specific.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have time?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Here, I can tell you real quick.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Morals are something that come from within Within you.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: They can be religious based.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: They are your belief system.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Ethics are a societal code.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it is the code.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: The standard of a group of people.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: That is agreed upon.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like America has the constitution.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: We've got the declaration.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think morals is more parallel.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or in collaboration with your id.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: collaborates with your id.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's internal.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And where ethics is more external.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: External.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: It has nothing to do with your id.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Be your ego.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's how my mind connects it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: So
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: is this why they don't say moral monogamy?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Morality as a whole.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Morality is part of an individual.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: It contributes to an individual person's id.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's morals that help define ethics of a society.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of the ethics of America were based on the morals of the Christian religion.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Of the people who created it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: The people who created the Constitution.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So moral is based on your internal.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ethics is external society.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: How you relate to the world.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: When our society here in America was first started, it was based on the morals of a small group of people.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: That decided to inhabit the land.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: That decided to stay.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Snatch it up.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And take it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: All the people that were here.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like a colonizer.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to bypass all of that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: conversation.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get into that another time.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Colonizers.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I am a colonizer.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Are we though?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: I am.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, bypass it?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are we bypassing it?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can get into it
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: later.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's not the history.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: History podcast.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, there's a bunch of those.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, the
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: difference between morals and ethics is it...
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the one more which is consensual.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, consensual means both people agree.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let me go to that first.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is obvious that these relationships are not consensual.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, wait.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go...
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Any further?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do we cover more?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have a clear definition of morality versus ethics?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I understand
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do you understand
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: it?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think everybody else understands it?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Look it up.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Consensual.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So consensual would be if both people agree to that code.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So here's an interesting little topic or a thought experiment.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: If someone moves to a country and they don't agree with the laws of the country, they do not consent to those laws.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: They should probably not live in that country they are not they're not immune just because they don't agree exactly so then if you want to take this to relationships uh bad things will happen when you get into a relationship that you are not consenting to the rules set up in place to be in this relationship just like if you go to a country and you're like hey it's okay for me morally to like stone people or to commit murder or something but the ethical code of this country says i shouldn't but it's my moral they say it's okay i'm gonna do it anyway oh shit i ended up in prison how did that happen well it's because you just acted in a you didn't consent to that ethical code these women then in third world countries let's say specifically what we're talking about is the philippines they do not actually consent to that lifestyle even though they are forced into the ethics of that society so they are being cheated on because they did they did not consent to that now they can stay in the relationship but i would consider that um It's social, societal manipulation.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's societal conditioning.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: They've been conditioned to believe that's okay, but actually if they're uncomfortable with it, it goes against their moral code and their personal ethical code.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's non-consensual then.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: They're coerced into those relationships.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's coercive control.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree with that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: You want to add anything to it?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's abuse.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: coercive control.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: But how it relates to what we're talking about with the ethical, I'm sorry, with the consensual non-monogamy is ultimately It's the first word for a reason because of all part.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And see, the only other thing I would add to that is not only are they not, not only are they agreeing to it, but they have all the knowledge to agree because you can't agree to something you don't have all the knowledge to.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if, if somebody is proposing this type of dynamic or relationship and they leave out key parts, like I'm going to fuck somebody else and you, and you, so you know, oh yeah, he's going to go date somebody else or my partner's going to go date somebody else.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: My partner's going to go on dates they're going to cuddle they're going to do the things that they like to play board games or go golfing or whatever it is that they like to do together and then you find out that they also were fucking well wait a minute I didn't agree to that well yeah you did you consented to this well how can I consent to something I didn't know about so I think knowledge plays into that you can't consent to something you don't know about yeah incomplete information yeah because then you really haven't consented they can actually because you didn't have the ability to make an educated decision on what was going to be good for you
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: and this is probably should have done be done with the sober mentally capable person it has to be mentally capable because there's
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: people I mean I mean how do you want to define mentally capable do you want to define it based on IQ no we could throw this in there there's there's
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: this is an acronym topic about consensual
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: it is there's an acronym in our our lifestyle it's Safe, Sane, Consensual, SSC.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's basically the first acronym.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's old now.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: It is old.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is very old.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Just for the sake of this little
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: thing.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk about that too.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's the new one?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: What's the old
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: one?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Safe, Sane, Consensual.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the middle one is obviously SANE.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be safe if you are insane.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't go together because you can't make...
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hold
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: on.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are toxic people SANE?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can't make decisions outside of your emotions and outside of a balanced state if you are in a...
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can't think of a good word.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I had like three drinks already.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you aren't in a mental place of self-awareness, you can't make good decisions for yourself.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And self-awareness is actually a very tricky thing to...
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a real issue with the community.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Same people are self-aware.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: But self-aware people are generally sane
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: not
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: in my in my like do do do in my little
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: world I heard a noise yeah like a engine trailing in my little world trailing off here
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: this is great because people who are I guess that's a good point because it's so some you know psychopaths can be self-aware and they're still psychopaths or sociopaths can be self-aware and they're still sociopaths they can't control their their behaviors that makes them dangerous to other people which they're very aware of who they are very aware yeah I guess they both go hand in hand in a certain way.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Either way, I'm getting the point.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody wants to speak.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm good.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: No?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they would go hand in hand.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I heard a noise.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I got my point across.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you've got to explain yourself, though.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead and finish up.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I've lost my train of thought.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead and say what you were going to say.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you'll come back.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: What don't you agree about?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: There are many...
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: My problem with the word sane is...
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Dicey topics is the problem.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody wanted a rolling start.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: For a first
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: intro, here we go.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Who defines sane?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Who's the guardian?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Who's the person that says, oh yes, that's a sane person.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: They can make that decision.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: What are your parameters of sane?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Again, are you basing it off of IQ?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are you basing it off of the summation of their experiences are you basing it off of mental illness or mental health like what are you are you basing it off of a type of disability whether they do or don't have it what are you defining as sane
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: so before you don't say anything what are you to define as sane
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't because I'm not clinically licensed to do it
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: okay so what do you use to define consensual
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: divine to define consensual
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: yeah for you
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: um I don't use an acronym.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you use?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it's all about the individual and what they're bringing to the table.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: My experience with them shows me that they are capable of adulting and making decisions, and they are able to have a conversation with me, and they are able to understand everything that we're talking about.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: They can answer questions, ask questions.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like that word.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Consciousness.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Consciousness.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're present in what they're doing.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: That, to me, means that they are capable of moving forward with whatever it is that we are choosing to talk about doing.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of a good word.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Conscious choice.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Safe, sane, and conscious.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Or just forget the safe and sane.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Conscious.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they shy against doing things with unconscious people.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're conscious of what's happening.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, they cannot.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: They cannot.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I get drunk and I fall asleep, it's like...
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: They cannot.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about CNC right now.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking CNC.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole other...
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey! Anyways.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to be more specific about what you do?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: In regards
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: to what I do?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I negotiate everything.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: What's everything?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: I negotiate everything.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I negotiate play partners.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: I negotiate scenes.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I negotiate dynamics.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: You negotiate down to the specific detail of what kind of touching or sexual relationship.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm using ambiguous wording here.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: But no, we actually use very specific.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: specific wording like I'm going to touch you here with this.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is that okay?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I actually inadvertently negotiate friendships.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: With other people besides you and your partner?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: You mean your own
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: friendships?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: My own friendships.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's fucking terrifying not to.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: It can take me longer to negotiate a friendship than it can a scene.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree with that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It takes more energy to have a friendship than it does to seem for me anyway.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to elaborate?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the word friends anymore.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're in a relationship versus having a dynamic when you're talking about negotiating?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: dynamic is a type of relationship.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So relationship is an umbrella much like consensual non-monogamy.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you can have an umbrella of relationships and then underneath that umbrella you can have different types.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can have friendships.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: You You have family.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: You have partners.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have coworkers.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: You have a pet.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: You have a relationship with your pet.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: They probably didn't consent to it, but it's still a relationship.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: yes.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: So when you say relationship, it just depends on, there's different parameters for the different types of relationships
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: that you have.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would not negotiate a play scene the same way I would negotiate a dynamic or the same way I would negotiate a partnership.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it just depends on what type of relationship you're talking about.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for somebody that doesn't really do dynamics, how do you differentiate between your dynamic and then your enum?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Who said she doesn't do dynamics?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I said I don't do
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: dynamics.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you don't.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I said as someone that does not do dynamics.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: So a dynamic to me is BDSM related.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: A dynamic is dominant, submissive, master, slave, handler pet that's a dynamic dynamic means that there is a certain level of exchange of power between the people in the dynamic however many there are a consensual non monogamy is not an exchange of power nobody is ever technically has more or giving up power than the other that's a good point so they're they're very distinctly different in my world I can have consensual non-monogamy within a dominant, submissive relationship because those are two different things but with the same people.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: They have two different parameters.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Two type of relationships with the same person.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: currently in one.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Officially.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, officially.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, as somebody that, I just say it, I'm have relationships polyamorous specifically under the consensual non-monogamy but I don't do dynamics because for me it's tied together so I can't do just a dynamic without the senium just say senium in
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: other words your dynamic partners have to be your romantic partners
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: okay there we go that's what I was fishing for yes so romantic but do your romantic
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: partners have to have a dynamic
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: with you so for For you, are all your romantic partners are all senium?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you have open partners?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now yes.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: All of my romantic partners would have to be on board with consensual non-monogamy.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you have romantic partners.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: not all my dynamics have to.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you have romantic partners and what other partners do you have?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have dynamics.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So romantic partners.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Romantic means sex?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Romance means to me that you are choosing to...
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Share your life on equal footing beyond what you do in the bedroom and beyond...
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Intimate?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Intimate.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to include sex.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: It could be just intimate.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Intimate with emotions?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, not just emotions.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Intimate with sex, too.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have...
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean...
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now you're making me questions.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So say it again.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Say it again.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Say it again.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: mind.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Romantic.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Bring it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I said romantic means sex or does romantic mean emotional or does romantic mean intimate?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, here's the thing is I can be in a dynamic with somebody and not be romantically involved.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can be in a romantic relationship with someone and not be sexually involved.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Those two things are mutually exclusive.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what does romantic mean for you?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Intimacy.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sexual intimacy.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sexual intimacy.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it is sex.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I would say to have you define it that way because I can have For me, because I can have dynamics that do not involve romance or romantic tendencies, but they can still involve sex.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can separate the two.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: My romance is not tied to my sex.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can have sex without romance.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: yeah so
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: the two demisexuals here I'm the oddity of this group yes demisexuals okay I can
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: have one night stands I can have the two of us casual relationships I can have friends with benefits I can have fuck buddies I can actually have friends with benefits I can do that because there's a level of intimacy there for me that I have had fuck buddies and that didn't make them romantic that just made them who they were they were
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: just fuck buddies so romance for you is you've invested intimacy yes so So where do the emotions come in at that point?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Intimacy or romantic?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Emotions.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: She has
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: no heart.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm cold.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's empty.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pit.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's the frozen lady?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Elsa.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome Elsa to the podcast.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: That should
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: be my name, Elsa.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of like that.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: The ice queen.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: The ice queen.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I can't miss opportunities like that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: My emotions kick in...
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: When they do.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's no guideline for that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are you vulnerability based?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Mine are vulnerability based.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, because I have to choose to be vulnerable.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can have emotions without the vulnerability.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a second.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: You just have the wall up and then you choose when it comes down?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: In certain circumstances, yes.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's magical.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I wanted to get in there.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Romance.
• 28:22
  UNKNOWN: Romantic.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Romance is...
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: is intimacy because i can and and i've had to redefine intimacy because i had to redefine romance yeah you know romance everybody hears the word romance and they think of valentine's day and flowers and candlelit dinners and you know all of the things that hallmark has told us over the years that we need to pay attention to but really it's face looking no i'll punch a bitch for that no oh my god i hate that shit i think it's romantic that's fighting we're That's why it's romantic.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because usually after that's fighting.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I can't do dynamics because I track bratty little shits.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: You looked at
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: me.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want them to be stuck on rules.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then when a punishment happens, I had to stop doing it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, we're getting deep into some shit.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people, when I say punishment, even brats, like 100% brats will be like, oh my God.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I got to watch my words because I don't have clear rules except for my hard limits.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else out of there, I don't mind it.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's more like challenge me.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: how annoyed do you get with
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: it?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's a spectrum of annoyance.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God, she's here too.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really just tell all my secrets.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell one little secret.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: When they challenge me, it turns me on.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Of course it does.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I already knew that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did you?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, so that's why I had to take punishments out and when I took punishments out then I can't really do a dynamic because then there's no clear set of rules like these are the rules you're actually breaking and then you'll get in trouble for this so it's like that's a whole nother
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: podcast you love it when I say no to something
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I already know this yeah so for me dynamics makes it actually clear lines when I blurry lines myself because it really just depends on how much I like you and what day it is so
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: that's true too
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: yeah so if I feel like giving you wax and being nice because for me wax is 100% 100% a nice thing I do.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Impact is probably more for them than it is for me, but wax, I'm 100% being nice.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't necessarily need to earn it.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just like something you did like three months ago and you're finally getting a reward for it.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: But since there's no clear lines, it's like, can't say this is what you did, this is why you're getting it.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I can't.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I like you this
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: much today.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's why I can't do dynamics because I'm not that rigid.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're not consistent with it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: There you go, that too.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: does it based on his emotional output That day.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is great when I date nerds.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because then they're like, what did you do that for?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you do that?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we doing it for this long?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, eh.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I felt like it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it can't be that simple.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: It shorts their brains out.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I love it.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to turn brat into a thing you do.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a role anymore.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's a thing you do.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've talked about that, too.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Brat is a role, and I hate that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's bratting.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can be bratty.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: But if anybody called me a brat, I'd lose my fucking mind.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a personality type.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a...
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a trait.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's both.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: It can either be a type or it can just be a trait.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: It can be a noun and a verb.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more verb.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely not noun.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking it out of the role category though.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a role.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a personality type.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like being primal.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Primal to me isn't a role.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's a personality trait.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And type.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's deep.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So have we killed the non-monogamy?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about consensual.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Technically non-monogamy means that you choose not to be by yourself.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to have more than one partner.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Literally just choose not to be monogamous.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: You're choosing not to be monogamous.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: One
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: on one.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're choosing to have the opportunity to have more than one partner.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Romantic, sexual, BDSM related, kinky, all of it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: You can have BDSM.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can have more than one play partner in BDSM and not be non-monogamous.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: They still consider that non-monogamous.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not sexual.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not sexual.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's an emotional.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, wait, wait, wait.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: They call it Like emotional cheating.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go there, we're out of consensual and we're into non-monogamy versus monogamy.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is the difference?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Monogamy means that you choose to have one partner and one partner only at a time.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we agree a partner is a relationship.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: A romantic partner.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the difference.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Romantic partner is a difference between a friendship.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, is it?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Are you romantically involved with your friends?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I love my friends.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then I got another question for you.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: What about ace people?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because they have no romantic feelings.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they can have, yeah.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: If it's aro, they have no romantic feelings.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ace is they have no, I should say, a spectrum of sexual feelings.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And aromantic is they have a spectrum of romantic
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: feelings.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're not sexually.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So do we have a clear definition of friendships versus romantic partners?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: think that's going to be an individual, babe.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is real deep.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a, there's not a point of this.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: We have another, this gets like two minutes.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the biggest difference that I've through my studies, uh, the biggest difference is the, I know
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's so horrible.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's your, that's your line.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: I
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: don't want to catch phrase.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest difference that I just stop, stop.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest difference that I learned about was that the, um, like emotional cheating, let's say it's the intimacy.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's, it's about intimacy.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whatever you define as intimacy in your relationship that's monogamous, anything outside of that level of already defined intimacy is considered then non-monogamy.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's a friend that you cuddle with, but that was out of the bounds of the agreements you made in your monogamous relationship, you are now cheating.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why it's individualized.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's individualized intimacy levels.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it really is dependent on the level of intimacy.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Strangely enough.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because what you consider intimate might not be what I consider intimate, which is why you can't define that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: In general, they consider anything sexual as, sorry, I got the burps now, anything sexual as non-monogamous.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're doing something sexual with another partner, they is, you know, the proverbial they, the ubiquitous, whatever the hell it is, they.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're having sex with somebody or you're doing sexual things with someone and apparently BDSM is considered, quote, sexual, even though it's not always sexual, often not sexual.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's still considered I'll put that on the list yeah it's very strange very strange so it's the levels of intimacy you can get you can actually cheat on a spouse with one of your friends let's say you're not bisexual and you've got a girlfriend that you're very close to and you've got a very intimate emotional relationship and you spend the night with each other and you snuggle up in bed depends on the intimacy your spouse can then say that's cheating just like you said individual basis in general though that's not usually considered non-monogamy but if you've got a It's almost like if you feel guilty about the thing you're doing.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Should you really be doing that?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Should you be doing it?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then, ooh, is this cheating?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I used to tell my kids, if it makes you pause.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if it makes you feel a little yucky.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: If there's something that makes you pause, there's a reason it's making you pause.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you got to figure that out before you go forward.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you pausing because you feel that you're doing something wrong?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Are you pausing because it's dangerous?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Are you pausing because you feel like somebody is going to get hurt if you do this thing besides you or to include you.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is this going to harm somebody else if I do this thing?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's an internal reason why you pause.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: We all do it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's just whether or not you're good at ignoring it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it a fear of judgment and that sometimes can be pushed through and it's something you actually do want to do.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: There could be a bajillion different reasons why people pause.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying it could be an issue with my morals?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's making you stop for some reason.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes It actually is what it boils down to.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: It is making you stop.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Your ego can make you stop, though, too, to try to protect you from doing something you think would be embarrassing, but you actually do want to do it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to figure out if it's your it or your ego.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we're saying non-monogamy versus monogamy is what gives you pause.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Negotiated intimacy, I guess.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Negotiated
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: intimacy.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is what gives you pause.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: So intimacy.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: If it feels squirrely, you've got a problem.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: It
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: gives you pause because people either know they are or they're not.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you look at an individual person as you're walking through life and go, oh, with them I'm going to be monogamous, and then look at somebody else 20 minutes later and go, oh, with them I could be consensually non-monogamous.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: A person usually knows what they bring to the table.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know what you are.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know what you're bringing.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Ask somebody that knows that they're consensually non-monogamous and agree with that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Polyamorous, even.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we can talk about that later.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I just don't understand monogamy, especially with people that quote-unquote cheat.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't understand cheating.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I can answer this.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: don't understand cheating.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can answer this.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can answer this.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I was in monogamous relationships my entire life.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, so were you.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Until about three years ago.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I negotiated with my spouse.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: So this is my second marriage.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Negotiated with my monogamous spouse that I am polyamorous.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually got a little card that he signed.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: and said hey I know about this this is okay so people don't just think I'm cheating before that I was a serial cheater I have cheated on every single partner I've ever been with in my life why usually out of spite usually because at the end of the relationship I recognized I was being controlled somehow or there was one relationship where that actually didn't happen and I just felt stuck and in order to unstick myself then I kind of overlapped two relationships on top mine was based on control.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: There was something in my life that I felt that I no longer had control over in my relationship, but I could control who I thought.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's sort of how mine was.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I had my self-esteem diminished and they were controlling me and I was like, you fucker.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Something in my brain was like, you have to go do this to rebuild your esteem and to remember there are other people out there.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I almost used the other person that I was cheating with as a really horrific way to bolster my self-worth It was.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was a tool.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: I used them as tools to get out.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: They really are just tools.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I used them as tools to get out.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them know it and are okay and then some of them really don't know.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think any of them know.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's weird is too I'm a serial dater so I would cheat with the person and then I'd end up with them for another like two years.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I always end up with the person that I was cheating with.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Very strange.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: No it's actually not because when you're faced with two choices you always go with the second one because if the first one was good enough there wouldn't be a second.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: There wouldn't be a problem.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it actually makes perfect sense that you ended up with them because you went with the choice.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: You went with number two because if number one was good enough.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: I went the escape route.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was escaping.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever your, okay, so that's, that you always have to go with option two because if often, if option one was fulfilling and giving you everything you needed and you were, you were happy and fulfilled.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking monogamy.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking non-monogamy.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this was original monogamy.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is monogamy.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: This was original monogamy.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you're, if you're, Given two choices, you always go with option two because if option one was fulfilling and gave you everything that you ever needed and you were truly internally happy, option two wouldn't be an option.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And didn't control the person you were.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: But option two wouldn't be an option.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: There would not be an option two.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: There would be no options.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you always go to number two because there's a flaw.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: There is something that is not working with one for you anymore.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think it was about the person.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: because I but it could be anything you could talk careers you could talk you could talk shopping for cars you could use it yeah but maybe I want two cars like I want a jeep and a Dodge Viper but we're talking monogamy ah
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I see I see what you mean so the sex wasn't even enjoyable it was just a tool
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: yes absolutely I mean sometimes it was enjoyable not for me I don't care but again I can have one night stands exactly and they're enjoyable yeah we should talk about the demisexual thing real quick
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have I feel like that's a different topic
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: it
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: is We're talking about monogamy.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mine was just a self-esteem issue.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: To wrap that part up, because we have like another 20 minutes.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Non-monogamy versus monogamy is what gives you pause, intimacy.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Pause has nothing to do with whether you're monogamous or non-monogamous.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you're bringing to the table.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Pause is...
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Are you doing something wrong?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Are you doing something wrong?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: When you're monogamous...
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, for either one.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can be consensually non-monogamous and still cheat on a partner.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you identify as that doesn't mean it excuses you from cheating.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: So is there a clear line between monogamy versus non-monogamy?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's that
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: line?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: One partner versus many.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do we consider a partner?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you consider a partner and whatever you and your partners negotiate.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because there could be people that consider play partners as partners and if They can be monogamous or they can have many.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: It just depends on the
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: people that you're...
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: So my partner is fine with me sleeping with other people.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: As long as there's no romantic...
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are the
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: other people okay with you having a partner?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: They know about it.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: But are they okay with it?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not emotionally connected.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody knows.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: As long as everybody knows and everybody's consenting to
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: it...
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's monogamy or non-monogamy?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not...
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Non-monogamy.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: My partner knows that I'm cuddling with other people.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: No sex, but I'm emotionally tied to somebody.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that monogamy or non-monogamy?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Non-monogamy.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm cuddling with somebody.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's no sex and there's no emotional attachment.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then why are
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: you doing it?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I like touching people.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: But that's an emotional connection.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: You don't touch people because...
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of with him on this one.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: I hug and kiss people and I don't consider them
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: partners.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have sex with people who don't have emotions, emotionally attached to them.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot more touching than just cuddling.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: That face was great.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was confused.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was a lot more touching than just cuddling.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's apps where people, they cuddle for their job.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: that's professional.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's apps that people have sex for their job.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: But that's still non-monogamy.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I asked you what sex was first.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a,
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: yeah, in this, there's, sex is pretty specific that sex is considered non-monogamy.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Period.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mike.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: I, I
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: think it depends on the people involved because cuddling can be considered intimate for some people.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on that squirrely feeling you've got.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's that weird gray area.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: That one specific
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: thing is the level of intimacy right there.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have an app that I check in with and I look on there.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: People want to be cuddled, non-sexually, non-emotionally.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to be
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: cuddled.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Are you on this app?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because I like touching random people.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, two and a half years.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought maybe you were like
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: hoeing yourself out, man.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: You could be like
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: a cuddle gigolo.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what's my name?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Cuddle gigolo.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's my name?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just cuddle gigolo now.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hojo?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: My name is cuddle gigolo.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Joho?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: My name is cuddle gigolo.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Cuddle gigolo.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: The non-cuddling cuddle gigolo.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, gigolo.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Gigolo.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the non-cuddling gigolo.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: He could be hoeing out his cuddles for all
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're distracting me now.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on the app.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is my job.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I go around cuddling.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: cuddle people non-emotionally, non-sexually, is that monogamy.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on your partner.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: If everybody knows.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's a gray area.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on your partner.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit of a gray area.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on whether or not your partner considers cuddling intimate.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Even though I'm telling them that it's not?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because they have a say too.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's the part of the consensual.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So my monogamous relationship changes depending on the partner I have.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: In those gray areas.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're talking about those weirdos that think porn is cheating?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's those weird gray areas.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's another.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: For the record, those people are weirdos.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hot take.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hot take.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hashtag hot take.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Spicy
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: talk.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: So with that.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: From me.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's from.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have like another 10 minutes or so.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think we killed the non-monogamous versus monogamous.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Depends on the partner.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: What else is there?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about consensual, non-monogamous.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: how consensual non-monogamy is an umbrella for other terms.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And also what a sane mean, but
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: let's not even get into that anymore.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: What can we talk about for the next 10 minutes without going into all the different umbrellas?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because that could be a whole other episode right there.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: We can
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: specifically talk about polyamory because we're that first.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or how
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: the BDSM community fits into.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a different topic.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that falls under non-monogamy.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if we told everybody that too.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Our different multiple lifestyles.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: So the kink lifestyle, BDSM.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Each one is a different episode.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Non-monogamy, right?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so many topics.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: What else can we say about consensual...
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: When did you find out?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: When did you discover you...
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about us.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Screw
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: the definitions.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about us.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've killed it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I'm not a dirty little cheater.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of those that was emotionally and mentally out of the relationship just about and had a little bit of scarcity in there and was like...
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: kind of forced to do it because this is how you get sex and this is how you have girlfriends, even though you really don't want to be with those people.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what made you non-monogamous?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing my monogamy background all together.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand what you just said.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's very not specific.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't even want to talk about that because I really don't remember how many partners I had before I was...
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he was a
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: serial dater.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I almost said the F word.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: What introduced you to non-monogamy?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: You just want to skip everything else and go straight to that?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody needs to know how many people you fucked.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: How about you
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: just skip right over to that?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, that wasn't my point.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not wrong.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't answer that question anyway.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: How specific do I want to be?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: See, when I meet new partners, I tell them the specifics, but I feel like there's certain people that we all know.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the partner, so I can talk the specifics without talking the specifics.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: He hasn't mastered the talent yet of being ambiguous with saying something.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: In order to compliment me, he has to compare me.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just say...
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of just saying, I really appreciate you.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I appreciate you more than I appreciate these other people for this and that.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, why do you have to do it like that?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm a guy.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's comparative.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Which sucks because then when I get compared with somebody else, when am I going to be the one that's devalued?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Got problems with that.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: All the time.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: I never get devalued though.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like waiting for that day.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking doubt their shoe's going to drop.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be today.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Keep talking because I'm stalling here.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I told you I can do it.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can define this for you very
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: ambiguously.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, she asked me.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, good luck.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to do this.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is the first time I had this conversation with a non-partner.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had to answer this question.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so, and she's here.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: There was a certain person that we both know that we knew during the time.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: We decided to, okay, let me back it all the way up.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: I thought polyamory people were were weirdos.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because anytime I had them, they were like theater kids.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had multiple relationships.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: I thought they were all bi-pan people that were just fucking each other, which is pretty much actually true.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: Using it to just fuck each other.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Not because that's what they really believe they were.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to clarify that.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because not all pan people are.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: I always thought they were all swingers.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, so the group I met were actually polyfuckery.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: They literally just do fucking around.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I learned from some of them that it doesn't have to be that way they're just doing it for that excuse but I learned about it from the group I got invited to a party it was just random and I didn't really know any of the people because poly people aren't really kinky people right and I've been in the kinky lifestyle for many years before that this was about four years ago I went to the party and it's
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: longer than that dude we've been together almost three years now it's
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: been way longer can I tell my story whatever you know the time I'm not doing it I'm not here for the the actual shit okay six years ago whatever anyways that's your job anyways I went to the party this is my first introduction to poly people went to the party and it was supposed to be a kinky party but it was more just poly fuckery and everybody was drinking a lot of people were naked or like wearing scandalous shit and they decided to have a makeout competition okay so me the kinky straight guy in the room meeting most I've had I had like one gay friend and this is midwestern too or midwestern upbringing so everybody was either white or black and straight
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: right
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: that was it monogamy that was it so I come to Florida did kinky stuff where I knew it was there but I didn't really know anything about it and this is my first experience I go there everybody's having a make out party everybody's making out with everybody not knowing I was demisexual I just thought it was gross it didn't have to do with anything with boy or girl doing it it's just I'm there with
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: you're making out with strangers
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm there with a partner and we're kind of dating at the time and she's just making out with guys and girls and then...
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I thought you were there by
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: yourself.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: You never told me you were there with another part.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: And she's making out with the people too?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I told you this.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: gross.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're like...
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're keeping score.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, God.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: lose my shit.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I wouldn't worry about them making out.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, this was like two or three years before COVID times.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ew.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: This was my first introduction.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, people ask me questions like, no.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just here to watch.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm already the weirdo.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And look at me.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you touching each other?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I stand out anyways.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, oh, yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're making out with each other.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is my first introduction.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know anybody else there except for her and maybe one of the friends.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh, okay.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is how they do it.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to try to be cool because I know this is what they do.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of parties after that, that was the most extreme one.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can see you being
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: like, be cool, be cool, be cool.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Don't stare.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Don't stare.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Shit, I looked him in the eyes.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh God, they're coming over.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to try to kiss me.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: The men and the women.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is the key point here.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Don't make eye
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: contact.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Don't make eye
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: contact.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know I was demisexual at the time.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew guys kiss guys and girls kiss girls, but it was like.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Did you kiss anybody?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I didn't.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of silly-ass question is that?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was a great question.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've told you this already.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Ew.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: See, remember, can we rewind back to the fact that she was going to tell this story herself?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I wasn't going to tell this story.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to skip over all these details.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, fast forwarding.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to get the basics.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, the parties I went to, everybody was cool.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: They were just, you know, fucking a lot.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they were supposed to be like kinky people, but they weren't really kinky people, so it was mostly just polyfuckery.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: I talked to some of them, and I didn't understand jealousy because I was one of the monogamous people who couldn't be jealous.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then they're like, hold on a second.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can be jealous.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: We all still get jealous.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: what?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, jealous as shit.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I'm happy when my partners are happy.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: You people
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: get jealous too?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, yeah, we just talk about it.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, shit.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I guess that's a thing.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm like, all right.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to my partner.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Go team communication.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I go to my partner.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: We have a conversation.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: TLDR, we tried it.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: It failed.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got into another monogamous relationship after that.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that person had been open pretty much her whole life until she got to me and then realized she wanted a boyfriend.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: So then we tried monogamy again.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is not going to work.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: And stuff happened.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: happened and then I ended that relationship.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: happened in an eye roll.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Did you catch that?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, after that, I took six months off.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: a filthy cheater is what he said
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: earlier.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Dirty.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Dirty cheater.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Dirty cheater.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Dirty, dirty cheater.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: I took six months after that relationship and was like, you know what?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm actually poly.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: I asked some more questions from the people and they told me like, oh, this is communication styles.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the information they gave me was good.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Them actually putting into practice was shitty because they cheated and got caught even though they were in the polyamory flag so it's like what the fuck but I took their situation because undercover demisexual person I really don't want to have sex with random people took six months and then I met this one
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: that'd
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: be me when I finally was like you know what I'm gonna be polyamorous month later I met this one I'm like oh you know what this actually feels good I'm just gonna have no filter and tell all the information come to find out there's things like kitchen table poly and then people make up their own terms yeah we started
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: with no filter that didn't exactly work great yeah I don't see that going well it didn't it didn't go very well
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: yeah and then I realized oh yeah you know what I don't want to know everything it was like kitchen table
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: and I don't want to know everything and
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: then shared calendars and all this what the fuck I was like okay alright so I backed up my learning I was like all full on board with everything I was like it's
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: not like open communications everybody needs to know everything that's not that's one style great That's kitchen table.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: There are many styles
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: of poly.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I met this one.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then a month later, I met another partner.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: So
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, six months after I made the decision, fully polyamorous.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: A month later, I met a partner.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: A month later after that, I met another partner.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: it still fits
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: you?
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I might have had some hiccups.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: But when I made that decision in my head, it felt like a light went off in my head.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have my finances straight.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have my career straight because I still don't know what the fuck I want to do.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I know relationship-wise, I feel like I've hit the pinnacle.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm there.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's this.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I am.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I can check that box off.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever the life box is, that pie chart.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Relationships, all crossed out.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: We got this covered.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know for the rest of my life, I'm going to be polyamorous.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Had hiccups, but I actually did tell my family about it.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he's out to his family.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my family.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I really care about is my mom's opinion.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: She is okay with it as long as I'm happy, but she doesn't want to meet any of my partners because she's afraid of liking one more than the other.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's fair.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, she's cool with it.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't ask me.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, Asian family, they all want to know my business, but she doesn't care.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: When they start asking, she just kind of leaves the room.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then now, we've had conversations where if I bring someone to the family function, she's like, I'd rather just not go
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: That bad, huh?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: She just does not want to because it's a little bit backstory to her credit.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: We had a conversation, her and I, in high school that I wouldn't bring anybody around unless I was going to marry them.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: I remember hearing about the conversation.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was a big deal with a former partner.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, God.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, so she met two girlfriends in high school and then we had that conversation.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in sophomore year or junior year.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: So she's not met anybody that I've ever been with since then and then we had the conversation like two years ago so she still has not met anybody but she doesn't know my longest relationship is currently going on that I've ever had so yay two and a half years this one yay yeah we did it so it's funny because she asked me questions like what are you doing and I have to be like well I'm going you know with somebody yeah and then she wants to know what trips I'm going on it's like well I'm going with the person you don't want to know about and then she'll ask me like every it's okay so military background she's been she was in the military for 22 and a half years so in the military you probably know this they they always want to know your family always wants to know your ranking officer ranking commanders information so if you you know if something
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: happens to you they have to have somebody
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: exactly so my mom tried to transfer that into the corporate world which I'm in now and it's like that doesn't fucking my boss doesn't give a fuck where i am so anytime i get a new job she wants to know the address of the company i work for my boss's name and phone number and then like his email
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: address i'm
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: like what i'm keep telling her i'm in i'm in the technical field nobody gives a fuck if i disappear that's not the person you want to talk to i have somebody whose phone number you should have so i'm still breaking this down but she's like her general thing is as long as you're happy i don't need to know the details why do you want me to be okay with what you're i don't agree with it i'm fine with it because you're happy but i don't want it but it's like
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: i really just want to tell her like what kind of better christmas presents to get him
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: it's really all i care about that's a whole nother thing yeah anyways but yeah so that's my my thing with polyamory it's pretty short and sweet i kind of figured it out i had failed attempts but i i know now that this is what i
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: am you actually reminded me just from this whole conversation of of more about myself that i didn't bring up because it wasn't just like serial cheating i figured that this out when I was like 14 or 15 because I had a boyfriend and then another guy liked me and I was and this guy the new guy wanted me to break up with my boyfriend and I was like why why can't I just have two boyfriends I don't understand why that's not a thing and and that was that was the beginning of my first really horrible coercive control relationship and he would kind of that was that was a nasty manipulative early high school relationship I was 15 and he used his ex-girlfriend who happened to have the same name as I do to purposefully make me jealous that had been his first girlfriend and he used to talk about the sex they had and the things she was comfortable with and the things she was good at and he would do it to incite jealousy in yeah so he did it to control me he'd compare me to other girls if he knew that I liked if I thought you know Britney Spears was pretty this is actually a true story that actually makes sense he took her poster and put it over his bed but that makes sense now for you it does Natalie Portman same thing why that makes sense it was really bad and then I didn't figure out the poly thing until I finally like got back into that bomb drop yeah this is why this makes sense for you it's really shitty to talk about because that's your early that's your early memories of polyamory that didn't work for you that's what you that's what you that's your baseline yeah right that's why I try to forgive myself for the fact that I did the serial cheating and everything because my baseline but that's actually that I'm poly but the baseline so the baseline is that your baseline poly involved a guy who compared you to another female as a way to control and manipulate you.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: And who forced me into monogamy because he wouldn't have been comfortable with it.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: But now think of it this way.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: You will not, you want to block your metamors because you were conditionally trained as a teenager to compare.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: To be jealous.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, to compare.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you already do it mentally whether your partner does it or not.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: on so if you don't see it at all then you can't be reverted back to your basics because you can't mentally compare what you do without because you were conditioned to do it exactly nailed it i figured that out a few weeks ago that exact issue yeah yeah that so me block it this is this is kind of good so the only way i met him already and said hey i might block you in advance i want to tell you in advance because i i might get uncomfortable and i don't want you to take it personally please don't take it personally it's something that I might not want to see right because then it'll trigger things in me right so I warned her in advance this has nothing to do with you it really might just be me and she's like hey that's no problem I promise I won't take it personally I said I'll still talk to you over text I'm not gonna not talk to you but it's those intimate details and I don't tell people why I was tortured with that yeah I don't want to see it but it became a part of your foundation that you've not been able to I can't reconcile it yet and I have to forgive myself for that.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of forcing myself to be okay with seeing it, maybe I never wanted to see it.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: But either way, right now, I feel like it's torture because it was torture.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's torture for you now because you feel like a decision's being made for you based on somebody who's not a part of your life anymore.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they still have a certain amount of control over you, even though the control is through you and not by them anymore.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it tortures you.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: They taught me to control myself.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: To control myself for their benefit.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: The torturous part is not necessarily the fact that you see it.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: The torturous part is because it reminds you that there is still a speck of control that somebody who is insignificant still has on you.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: If I could hit one person with my car, it'd be him.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: It would be.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh boy, that was great.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: So our hour is about up.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: we should cut a lot of this.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get into Dame's poly...
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that might be a serious topic that is longer than...
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: You want to do the quick end of it?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: We might have talked about it in another podcast.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine with me.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did we?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: I could splice them together.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about this again, though.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: But do we want to speak about anything else about consensual non-monogamy?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: What did I think about when I got into poly this time?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know, because you reminded me.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: I met you.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I negotiated with my monogamous husband that I was going to get into the BDSM community and it was going to be non-sexual.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:06
  UNKNOWN: You're welcome.
• 1:03:07
  UNKNOWN: Yeah, thanks.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, I was, it was going to be non-sexual for me.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would do sexual things, but I'm demisexual, so there's no emotional connection and I can, I can like tease somebody physically in their sexual organs, let's say, and I don't get off on it.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's not interesting to me.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's an arm or a leg.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's just another body part.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's just another body part and I wouldn't actually have been having sex with people anyway.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd be doing things that might be sexually explicit.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Slot A is not going Going into hole B.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would be doing things that wouldn't necessarily be, that would be sexually explicit, but they wouldn't be sex or sexual.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: No slot A's and no whatever.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: Peg A into slot B.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I discovered, I didn't know there was a word for this.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: We had a mutual friend who saw me eating chicken wings at one of our local events.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: And he looks at me and says, you're primal.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm like destroying wings and I've got sauce all over my face.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: What's that?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Stop and
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_03: look
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: up.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like a deranged hyena.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: What's
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: that?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: I look like that crazy hyena from Lion King right now.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they all laugh about it.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: Accurate.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: And now they all want me to eat things with sauce and they give me food and I'm big into food play and I always was.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Every relationship I've had, I'm into food play.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing something with food all the time.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, So it was called a primal.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had to start looking it up.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is this?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I then discovered another primal
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: sitting across.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: All primals are not into food play.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's different.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I discovered that part of me is in other people that I could be in a partnership with.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I could do like BDSM play with them.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought, yeah, but this is sexual to me.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: I want.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: the sex that goes with this.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do just the BDSM part.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_02: I need the rest of it for this specific aspect of a person that's got that same trait that I have.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: I want all of it.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, shit.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't think I'd ever find a partner like that.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about a month after I, it was longer than that, five months after I got in, this guy walks in and I'm like, who is that?
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Instantly, like that one animalistic, like, oh.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you said met me wrong.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: You mean you met all
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: All this.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: All this.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's a little bit all this.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot going on.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: You meant
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: all this.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad this is a podcast.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can feel it.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: They can feel it through the microphone.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: They hear it.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Got the heat.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing the heat.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: I hear your breath through
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: the phone.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: PB&J time.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_02: Bringing the
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: heat.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is now the sensual hour.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's midnight time.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good note.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just compliment me and then we're going to end it.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: it yeah so so that's what happened I met that
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: guy and I decided I have to actually renegotiate and I thought I wasn't gonna have to make this sexual and then I thought I'm not gonna feel complete as a human unless I get to experience all the things that my body and brain and emotions want to just dive into and I like that guy and I haven't found another partner since because I just don't I don't want them yeah
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: compliment me yes keep it up there you go that's the best way to end the podcast right there ladies and gentlemen compliment your host yeah there you go you want to lay What's up, buddy?
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: You want to lay something on me before we go?
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that Freudian slip was glorious.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: I almost spit up my drink.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do I get to choose what I lay
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: on you?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can choose.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: my
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_03: God.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be the After Hours podcast.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: If we didn't say it before, this is another, well, this is the first episode.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, first episode.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is the first episode of the Around the Kinky Campfire podcast.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joking
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: today.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: Co-host Lennox.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Dame.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: We'll catch you next time.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 1:07:06
  UNKNOWN: Bye.