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From Vendor to VIP: Build a Brand Agents Chase (Not Ignore) · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Are you tired of chasing agents who ghost your coffee invites?
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Do you ever feel like you're break dancing for a shot at a deal while they're sipping
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your eight dollar latte and scrolling their phone?
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Imagine for a moment flipping the script.
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Picture this.
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Agents coming to you because you've built a platform they trust and a community they want
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in on.
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Wanted to give a quick shout out to one of our major class members, Jenelle Davis,
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she's built a legit local in-person community of real estate agents.
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And just last week, she hosted a small class for real estate agents all about VA home loans.
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And afterward, an agent whom she's never met before or spoken with totally impressed
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by the value in the vibe of the community and what Jenelle provided asked Jenelle to help
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her son buy home with 10% down fast forward.
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They've talked.
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He's pre-approved and the referrals already under contract.
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That's the power of community and that's what happens when you stop cold pitching and
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start attracting.
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That's exactly what we do for loan officers across the country in our platform called
0:57
my agent classes.
0:58
And if you want to learn more about what we do and how we do it and if it's a right fit
1:01
for you, I've opened by calendar up again.
1:04
For a short window, I am taking one on one calls and having conversations with qualified
1:08
loan officers whom this might be a fit for.
1:11
So what you need to do if this sounds interesting to you is go to the link in the show notes and
1:15
click the link to go ahead and book a call with me or go to mortgage marketing.pro and
1:19
grab a time on my calendar.
1:21
We'll get connected and see if we're right fit for each other.
1:25
Okay, so you're listening to the mortgage marketing radio podcast where we help you grow
1:29
your business without cold calling chasing, paying for leads or being seen like a vendor.
1:34
My name is Jeff Zimffer and today we're diving into a big question, how do you stop
1:37
chasing agents and start building something so valuable they come to you to help us break
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that down.
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I'm bringing back a rare repeat guest, my good friend Arjun Dingra and he's a 24 year
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mortgage vet.
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He's a national speaker, martial arts coach and the founder of a fast growing movement
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that's blending personal brand community and real estate into something big.
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It's called the LFG community and in this episode, here's what you'll take away.
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Why F coffee is your new mantra for attracting, not begging.
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How to stop playing small and start showing up like a peer, not a vendor and how to build
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a tight knit tribe of agents who refer you business and respect your time plus you'll hear
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the crazy, true story of how a contract mixed up with Ryan Sirhan gave birth to the
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LFG brand.
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So good you got to hear this.
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So if you're done being overlooked and you're ready to build something magnetic, lock
2:26
into this episode, this is mortgage marketing radio.
2:29
Let's F and go.
2:33
Arjun, welcome back to the show.
2:44
Thanks brother.
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It's been, yeah, it's been years, I think four years, five years.
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I think so.
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But I think the point I wanted to make why I stress that welcome back is for anybody listening
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or watching is when you're invited back a second time, that puts you in rare error,
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you know?
3:00
So shout out.
3:01
But I appreciate that Jeff, not respect for what you do for our industry.
3:06
So thank you, man.
3:07
Well, you know, I mean, my goal is to bring valuable conversations to people that can help
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them grow their business, break through any challenges they have, learn and continue
3:15
to evolve.
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And you're somebody who I've been watching obviously for five plus years who's continuing
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to learn and evolve.
3:21
And we're going to unpack all the things you're doing to build a media brand in your business.
3:27
But what do you want to give for anybody who may not be familiar with you?
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The quick, you know, 30 seconds, 60 second max, you know, story about our zoom.
3:36
There was an emphasis on max, so I'm going to go quick.
3:39
Yeah.
3:40
Well, so guys, I'm in the industry for 24 years, originally from Nevada and I live in
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the Bay Area.
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My background is in martial arts.
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So I spent, I've spent 30 plus years in Taekwondo and I coached Team USA for 10 years
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and competed for seven.
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My voice is a little crackly because I literally landed last night back from Barcelona.
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And I went for just 72 hours to go help coach some of our guys there in the world championships.
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So if my voice cracks, it's not because I'm going through something.
4:04
It's just because I got back.
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But I'm just a very big advocate for all of us within the industry, elevating and becoming
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better marketers because that's how you outlast disruption.
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That's the counter punch, so to speak, for disruption is just being more visible and
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that's what I'm most passionate about.
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I love that man.
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The counter punch to outlast disruption is marketing.
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That's pretty cool.
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Makes me wonder if you've ever considered tying in.
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Maybe you have it.
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I haven't caught it.
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You know, the martial arts elements into your marketing.
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I do.
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Yeah, I do a lot.
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It's a big part of my brand because it's uniquely mean.
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I think for anyone listening to this, that's something everybody has access to.
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Everyone here is a lot more interesting than what they do for a living.
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So you've got an opportunity to tie in what it is that's deeply personal or what is it
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that makes you tick outside of work, right?
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It can't just always be about mortgage structuring and real estate deals.
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So for me, it's martial arts because it's a huge part of my life.
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And I do tie that in because the mindset, the approach, the fixation on process, the
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involvement, which is a big theme, right?
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Continuing to evolve.
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You get better and better every day.
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It's an opportunity and you're only really competing with yourself.
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All of it ties back in.
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Yeah.
5:17
100%.
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You're working with a team.
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All that stuff.
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And sometimes you get kicked in the face, right?
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And everyone has a plan until they got punched or kicked in the face.
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Yeah.
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In your case, it's probably kicking more off and the parts kicked, yeah, it's kicked
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in the face.
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Yeah, for sure.
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All right.
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I love that stuff.
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My son, and I think you and I've rifted about this before when he was, I don't know,
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12 or 13 or something.
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When he got his black belt in Taekwondo.
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Amazing.
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Yeah.
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I remember talking about it.
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And I wanted him to continue, you know, but hey, so be it.
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Yeah.
5:45
All right.
5:46
Let's shift and let's talk about, you know, all kinds of cool things, building a media
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brand.
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You've got, you wanted to kind of frame this around it.
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Let's start with this around loan officers wanting to attract real estate agents, work
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with more real estate agents.
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And you have this saying, which is something about coffee.
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What was it?
6:04
You want to refresh my memory?
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It's, it's fuck coffee.
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Okay.
6:08
Yeah.
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Let's unpack what that means.
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Well, you know, it's, it's basically guys, I think like what has worked in the past
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is no longer going to work.
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And this has been going on for a few years.
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I think there's still a few of us that are out there in the marketplace across the country
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that are just waking up to a little bit slower because we've just been kind of taught to no
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mistake or fault that, you know, you want to get in front of as many agents as you can.
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The best way to do that is to kind of get them on some neutral turf, you know, it's hard
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to get them to come to our office because a lot of us work from home now or work out
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of co-working spaces or whatever.
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So get them to go to coffee with you, buy them coffee, of course.
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And I always just say like all this is leading to is a bunch of agents looking at their inbox
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and recognizing that they don't have to pay for coffee for the next 365 days.
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They literally have enough imitations and solicitation to go out for a coffee that they
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know they're not going to pay for.
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But I also feel that it puts us in this very, for lack of a better way of saying it in
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this very subservient role or subservient like hierarchy, like you're begging them, now
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you have to sing for your supper, now you have to hope based on all the things that
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you're going to say that you're great at that they will somehow decide to throw you
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a lead or want to work with you.
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And in the spirit of your podcast, which is where I really learned this years ago, Jeff
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and I have to thank you for it.
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Lenders have to stop seeing themselves or acting like solicitors or vendors, right?
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But we are actually peers.
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We are the unsung hero of every transaction.
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So if we want to be viewed differently and we want to be treated differently, we're going
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to have to be different, which means changing the game up.
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This is really, really important.
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So and guys, I also, I don't need to convince you of any of this, if I, if the market will
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do it for you, okay?
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So I might be talking about it and may go in one year and out the other and you want
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to stick with coffee meetings.
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It's great.
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I also had to adapt to that because coffee is really overpriced in San Francisco.
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It's eight bucks.
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When I started doing this budgeting, man, I was like, I'm like, my marketing budget,
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so to speak, was getting way out of hand when I looked at it and it's all coffee and
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sometimes you get a croissant, which is like another seven or eight bucks.
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It's just nuts.
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It's crazy after all.
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So I'm of the mind that you need to turn it and start attracting agents like you talk
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about Jeff, there's ways to do that and also creating some exclusivity around who you
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want to work with because the moment you do that, you'll start to be viewed differently
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because they expect an agent or referral partner generally expects that when a lender
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is coming out and reaching out to them, they'll do whatever they have to do to try and
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get business and there's a line of them standing right behind you.
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And that probably is true.
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But the moment you can kind of change it and there's some exclusivity or there's some
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posture involved here that's like maybe they don't all want to work with me.
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Maybe I have to kind of see if I need to, if I'm okay to work with them or what is it
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about me that would actually entice them to want to have a business relationship.
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So it's just a little bit of a different approach and we get to unpack that a bit.
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Yeah, it makes me be curious about exclusivity, who you want to work with, like not being
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willing to work with anybody or everybody who fogs a mirror, like how do you get clear
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on who's let's let's back it up, get clear on who's right for you and then let's talk
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about the approach you're using which isn't the traditional approach.
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Okay, so I think for everyone needs to do first and foremost is take stock, right?
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As a business operator, you're supposed to look at data, you're supposed to look under
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the hood.
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You can't just like a robot come to work and make your calls and check your inbox and pound
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the pavement and go to coffee, right?
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Like take stock at where business is coming from, who you're actually doing it with.
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Maybe the data is going to reveal something to you that you don't even think about.
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Like I seem to be really heavy in this particular part of the market.
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Maybe it's a geographic zone.
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Maybe it's a certain segment, like I seem to be doing a lot of investment loans.
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Here I am talking about first time buyers all day, but 80% of the business I get is investment.
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Like take stock of all of that stuff and also who's sending it to you.
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But what I would suggest, and I talk about this from a personal branding standpoint as
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well, but it applies to us as lenders because we have a brand as well and a brand simply
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put is your reputation.
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That's it.
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It's what people say about you when you're not in the room, it's what shows up to meetings
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before you do.
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And it's also the sum of everything that you put out into the universe.
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That's what it is by simple, simple definition.
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So that being said, if you're a lender here and you're listening, go to the last or your
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five best or ten best, just a good sample size, but valid of referral partners, who you
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work with and ask them to summarize in one word, what is the experience like working
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with you or what is it they think of when they think of working with you?
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Like is there something that you're known for and just tell them, look, your referral partners
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will love this by the way that you're doing it.
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You just tell them, I'm taking stock in my business.
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I'm trying to continually improve and keep pace with this market and even get ahead of
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things.
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And in order to do that, I want to take, I need to take a, I need to take a temperature
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or a gauge of how the market views me.
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So would you mind just summarizing what the experiences like working with me and my team
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in one word or what is it you think of when you think of me and my team in one word?
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That right there guys will tell you where you stand.
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And this is going to either reveal to you and validate that you're on the right path.
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For most of us, when I did this and I do this continually guys, I do it at least a few
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times a year when it comes to my referral partners, it actually showed me when I first did
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it that I was on the wrong path.
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There was a huge incongruency between what I thought I was putting out into the marketplace
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and how the market was actually receiving that and viewing it.
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So I want to tell you, go through that exercise first and this will tell you where you need
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to improve, where you need to evolve, where you need to get a lot more clear on.
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And let's, you know, I can stop there for a quick second, Jeff, too, if you want to.
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Yeah, I'm curious.
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I want to, I want to, if you can recall what were some of the things that came up for
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you on the, on the positive or and or the other side of that.
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Yeah, so I'll tell you guys it was all, it was all negative when I first did it.
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I was, I was getting a lot of mixed, a lot of mixed stuff like I joke about it that I ran
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a very white tablecloth restaurant on the front, which was me as the host or the person
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that would greet people, maybe even take the orders, but the back end, the kitchen was
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a mess.
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It was like a fast food chain.
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So I had a Michael Mino restaurant on the front and I had a fast food chain in the back.
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Not that there's anything wrong with fast food kitchens, but if you watch them, there's
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a lot of chaos.
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It's kind of organized chaos in its own way, but it's chaotic.
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Just things flying around, it's moving very quick, sometimes it's unorally.
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And that's what I found out was happening.
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And I got words back like chaotic.
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I got words back like untimely.
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I got words back like disorganized and I was really shocked.
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Then I felt extremely self conscious because I was wondering how long has this been going
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on.
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But when I stopped and took out even deeper look at it, it made perfect sense because
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I had very few repeat relationships where agents would work with me and then they wouldn't
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come back.
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They liked me personally.
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Again, the front end of the restaurant was fantastic because I was in charge of that
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solely, but I wasn't doing enough kind of oversight and checking in and wanting to improve
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and tweaking and taking that tool out from time to time to monitor this stuff in the back.
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And it made perfect sense.
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The data was proving that.
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So I did the exercise and then I found out that all the reaction and all the data and
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the lack of revenue or the lack of sustainability within these relationships actually matched
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up with that.
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So it told me what I needed to fix.
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And again, I want to urge everyone to do this exact same thing because right now within
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this market, whatever you want to call this market, which I view it as, I think one of
13:59
the best ones for us as lenders to forge ahead, I think it's one of the greatest opportunities
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there is in media right now, better than it was even when I got fully fledged started in
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this.
14:08
But right now is the time to be doing all of this stuff and taking stock.
14:12
Okay.
14:13
Well, there was a lot in there.
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I love the analogy of the restaurant, the white tablecloth on the front.
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It's the chaotic kind of fast food place on the back end.
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It reminds me of a quote I heard years ago by Joe Stumpf, I don't know if you remember
14:26
Joe Stumpf, you know, one of the OGs.
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Anyway, here's this wonderful saying which was about your business.
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Does the external perception match the internal reality?
14:35
Beautiful.
14:36
Yeah.
14:37
He was very good with language, but I think that's such an awesome exercise to do.
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If you have the courage to do it to your point earlier, we have a lot of assumptions about
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what we think it's like to work with us just like for those of us who are in a relationship
14:49
or a marriage, right?
14:50
Yeah.
14:51
We have assumptions about how it's going, right?
14:53
And then you check in.
14:54
Yeah, right.
14:55
Just imagine being a fly on the wall during your spouses or partners, solo therapy session
15:01
with their therapist.
15:02
Not the couple is one, but the solo one.
15:04
All of us, not some, all of us would be absolutely shocked, floored, if not like, probably
15:10
faint from what we hear because there's just a huge incongruency between what we think
15:14
and what is actually happening.
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Do you recall what were some of the more the easier, more immediate changes you could
15:21
make that, you know, that allowed you to kind of turn it around?
15:25
Well, it was at a point when I was ready to quit the industry.
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So with, you know, Neil, my brother jokes about this all the time, he says it famously
15:32
and I always quote him that you're not truly in the mortgage business unless you contemplate
15:35
quitting at least once a week, you know, like that's the, that's the mark of a mortgage
15:39
person.
15:40
You always have that moment like, why did I choose this career?
15:42
Why am I in this?
15:43
Why have I continued to stay?
15:44
And then the other six days, you feel fine, but I, there was a moment when I was ready
15:51
to leave and it was about seven years ago because I'd become completely commoditized.
15:58
You know, I got stood up for an agent meeting and I lost some clients.
16:02
I got yelled at by an agent and it was like this perfect storm, a confluence of all this
16:05
negativity and rain.
16:06
And then I went outside and I called my performance coach, who's, you know, well known in the industry
16:11
kind of pride and I asked him, I've worked with him since 2009, so I think the universe
16:15
is trying to tell me something, you know, man, that maybe I should leave or do something
16:19
else.
16:20
Mind you at that point, I'd been in the business 16 or 17 years, like you would think
16:24
that that would garner some kind of respect, you know, or, or, or just, and I'm not asking
16:29
for the world or anything, but just, you know, like treat me a little bit better than that.
16:33
But there's the expression guys that you get what you tolerate and that's in life, but
16:37
it also really applies as lenders who sometimes feel like we're doormats or we get our shins
16:42
kicked in, you get what you tolerate.
16:45
And I recognized that I was tolerating being treated like a vendor that I tolerated
16:50
that I had to sing for my supper, that I had to always prove myself and that I was only
16:54
good as my rate sheets or the quality of the donuts that I would bring to open houses.
16:59
And I don't really stomp on, or, you know, I don't really shlup on donuts, I go all
17:03
out.
17:04
I get the best pay goes to the best donuts, but I got known for this.
17:07
So I started thinking like they must be passing my name around these real estate offices,
17:11
like this is the best sucker in the world.
17:13
He'll split Zillow leads with you.
17:14
He brings great donuts, he might even bring some champagne by, you know, for, for doing
17:18
my most of brunches at your open houses on Sundays, just call him.
17:21
And I was saying, yes, all these things because I thought it was an embed, I thought it
17:24
was an opportunity, but what I was slowly doing was putting myself into this like extraordinarily
17:30
subservient role.
17:32
So this is where the market viewed me and I needed to make a switch.
17:38
So when I had that moment and I called Kai, he says, look, I know you're good at what
17:42
you do and you know you're good at what you do, but does anybody else?
17:46
And the reality was no, they only knew me for those other things that I just described
17:49
to you.
17:50
The media clients did because I would, you know, stay in the peripheral for a while, but
17:54
time would fade and I wasn't the best at keeping in touch at that time with past clients.
17:58
So eventually they're forget, right?
17:59
Because life goes on.
18:01
So I needed to do something to switch that.
18:03
So I didn't have the answer right away, but it was shortly thereafter that my brother
18:07
and I went to a Gary V. event and then everything just switched and I went all in on social
18:12
because I knew that this is where I could beat my competition.
18:15
I went under the hood, I looked at, okay, well, I'm getting my ass kicked.
18:19
The market views me as basically a doormat and I'm losing to all these big banks, okay?
18:25
So I'm in a very big bank dominated market.
18:27
Some of you might be as well who listen to this.
18:29
And in San Francisco, it's the private wealth division that will eat your lunch day and
18:34
end day out.
18:35
It's not as bad anymore.
18:36
It's changing, right?
18:37
Because, you know, throwing out 2% rates was a good idea for a while until it syncs
18:41
the bank and so they stopped doing that, right?
18:44
Simply just based on relationships or asset management.
18:47
So I knew that these guys are handcuffed by a few things, my competition.
18:52
Number one, they all wear really terrible clothes that don't fit them, right?
18:56
You think of a banker who wears an oversized suit, who walks by in a desk at a bank, so
19:00
they look like shit, okay, I can dress better than all of them, got it.
19:04
Number two, and that was a joke.
19:06
Well, actually, you're too much of a dresser.
19:08
You know what I'm saying?
19:09
No, I try to be.
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I feel like, you know, look good, feel good, do good, right?
19:13
But then the other thing was, is I knew they can't have any presence online.
19:17
They're not allowed to.
19:19
They're handcuffed.
19:20
They are one trick ponies that can offer really low rates.
19:23
That's it.
19:24
So the market views them is really cool.
19:25
And the market also thinks that that's the best part of a relationship, is the rate
19:30
they have to offer.
19:31
I said, I'm going to do everything I can to start combating this and teaching that there
19:33
is more.
19:35
And in fact, the rate sometimes doesn't even matter, okay?
19:38
There's strategy involved with this.
19:40
There's so much more, okay?
19:42
Guidance and advisement and all the things that all of us who are part of this community
19:47
know and value ourselves for.
19:49
So I can start beating them on that.
19:51
And if I'm more visible, I will get more bats, which will lead to more conversations,
19:54
which will ultimately lead to more business or enough business for me to have my hands
19:59
and my plate full.
20:00
And that was what the game was.
20:01
It was all about visibility because at the end of the day, I have direct control over
20:05
how visible I am.
20:06
I don't have control over who ultimately works with me.
20:08
We'd like to think we do and we'll do 80 or 90% of the work and take it all the way
20:12
there and then they'll drop you for something, sometimes it's done for scene.
20:15
It's just one of the cruel ironies if you want to call it of this business.
20:19
And we all suffer from it.
20:20
And I still get it happening to me from time to time, right?
20:23
It never goes away.
20:24
Agents know this, lenders know this, right?
20:26
Something will just happen or they'll drop you for an eighth of a point or their bank
20:29
or something will happen.
20:32
And you can't take it personal, but I can control how visible I am.
20:36
I have 100% control over that, which means I'm either doing a good job or I'm not, right?
20:41
It may not always show up on the bottom line or in the commission checks, but I do have
20:44
control over how visible I am.
20:46
So if I focused there, enough activity was going to come from it.
20:49
So that's where I made the switch, Jeff.
20:51
Yeah, that's very wise.
20:53
What I wrote down was, I know you've heard this phrase before, visibility, Trump's ability.
20:59
And the caveat that I always write to that is in the beginning, right?
21:03
Because once you get to the dance, you better be good at what you do.
21:07
Yeah.
21:08
Look, best known beats, best 10 out of 10 times.
21:10
I've been saying this for years and every talk I ever do from stage and it's a joke and
21:14
I'll share it with your audience.
21:16
But if I asked, if we asked everyone that listens to your podcast through a silent ballot,
21:22
secret ballot, name the best vodka in the world.
21:25
If you're a vodka drinker or even if you know about vodka, what's the best vodka in
21:28
the world?
21:29
90% of the respondents, Jeff, will say, gray goose.
21:32
The reality is, though, that gray goose is not good vodka.
21:34
It's actually shit vodka.
21:36
It's fourth best, according to all the vodka surveys.
21:39
Belvedere is number one, kettle one is number two.
21:42
There's another one that's number three.
21:43
And then gray goose is number four, but why is it perceived as the best?
21:46
It's because it's so visible.
21:48
It's a huge brand.
21:50
In the 90s and early 2000s, it was a huge part of hip hop and pop culture.
21:54
It was featured in every music video.
21:56
I joke again, half naked people who are very attractive would bring it out to you at night
22:00
clubs when you ordered bottle service.
22:02
The bottles were packaged beautifully.
22:04
They had great ads.
22:06
It was just better marketing, it was better optics, it was better visibility that led the
22:10
world to perceive them as the better vodka.
22:13
So for everyone who's in here or everyone on your listening, remember the best known
22:17
beats best every time, and I'll prove it to you again, how many times of you as a lender
22:23
or you as a real estate professional have been in the business 10, 15 plus years, you
22:27
have all this experience, you'll lose the listing or you'll lose the deal to someone
22:30
who's done this for months, you know, and you're like, how is that even happened?
22:35
This was supposed to be a foregone conclusion that they should have gone with me for my
22:37
expertise.
22:38
They were just better known.
22:40
They must have done something that optically captured the imagination of the consumer and
22:44
held it.
22:45
They didn't just capture it.
22:46
They held it.
22:47
And that's what caused you to lose the deal.
22:49
Yeah.
22:50
That's a great story about the great goose vodka.
22:53
I looked that up a while ago and actually dug into a little bit about the founder of
22:57
that.
22:58
I'm sure you've seen seen the story, but for those listening, if you want an education
23:01
on the power of branding and visibility, how that trumps a quality ability in this case
23:06
vodka, right?
23:07
Quality.
23:08
It's a really cool story.
23:09
How this person took that and did all these different things that changed the trajectory
23:12
of that brand in a huge, huge way.
23:16
Amazing.
23:17
All right.
23:18
Well, let's now dovetail this into we're kind of teasing around this idea of building
23:21
a personal brand or let's call it a media brand, right?
23:25
You are what I've seen you do now, right?
23:27
You've got, you know, LFG, your society, your YouTube channel, if you've got a podcast
23:32
as well.
23:33
And there's a few people in the industry, real estate mortars who are bubbling up and
23:36
we're starting to see more people create like a brand, right, where they're putting content
23:40
out and they're doing events and different things like that.
23:44
So first of all, yeah, if why that, why are you going that route and you're talking about
23:49
visibility ability, you can control your visibility.
23:52
Is there a dotted line to that?
23:54
Like, how does this serve you and feed you?
23:57
Well, again, it comes back to you, the individual.
24:02
And for me, because of my martial arts background and coaching, what gets me like going is the
24:08
unique opportunity to every day, every week or every month or any opportunity I get to
24:13
be able to influence change within a special group of people.
24:17
That was what fueled me as a coach.
24:19
And it still does to this day.
24:20
So I was gone for two days, just as an assistant to go for 72 hours, basically to Spain, because
24:25
I just want to have that opportunity and I got asked and I'm not going to say no to such
24:28
opportunity.
24:29
So for me, that's what it's always been about.
24:31
So I take that purpose in life, that personal mantra, and I dial that back and I'm like,
24:37
how does this apply to what I do day to day?
24:40
How does it apply to a 10 or three?
24:42
How does it apply to an interest rate?
24:44
How does it apply to the mortgage bond market?
24:47
What goes beyond that, obviously, and so for everyone listening, you know, you can run
24:51
through the same exercise and say, how can I have impact within my space?
24:56
Well, I have the opportunity through rooms I'm getting into through events that I can
25:01
throw that I have more of just really guys where it comes down to is just guts to do it.
25:06
You got to be a little crazy and just guts and building to lose a little bit of money.
25:09
Sometimes when you do it, but I'm just going to make the big splash and do it.
25:12
But I have this platform that I can stand on and create some of these things and treat
25:18
myself and start to operate as a media company that's going to grow and grow and grow and
25:22
have impact and be able to influence my industry, which I care deeply about as a good steward
25:28
of it and wanting to remain a good steward and have impact that way, the same way I do
25:33
in coaching.
25:34
So that's what really inspired it, Jeff, it was just it simply just came down to impact
25:38
wanting to have some kind.
25:41
Well, what I hear there is it really connects to kind of your purpose, right?
25:46
Like you said, a moment ago, like you connected to this unique group of people you want to
25:49
be able to serve and show up and have value to, right?
25:52
Yes.
25:53
That's it.
25:54
You're seeing these people through the same filter, realtors, our industry, loan officers.
25:59
That's what's feeding you here.
26:01
That's what's driving you.
26:02
Right.
26:03
Look, anyone who listens here that's been, you know, on your one of them too, like any
26:07
pre-O-aiders, right?
26:09
Every market crash, like this industry has been through a lot.
26:12
It will continue to go through a lot.
26:14
And if anything, what it's taught me over the last 24 years is that disruption is not
26:18
a matter of if it's going to happen.
26:19
It's when the real estate industry faces it now more, they've definitely taken, you know,
26:24
I feel like it's even now that we took the brunt of it no way through Dodd-Frank and then
26:28
lots of other things, commission disputes, QM rules, all kinds of different things, compliance,
26:34
issues, trade laws.
26:36
Even, you know, on the real estate association itself had been kind of left out of that
26:40
for a while and now they came under fire, right?
26:42
But what is all this basically come back to?
26:45
It comes back to there being some level of dissatisfaction either by way of an event
26:50
and occurrence or just general building sentiment.
26:54
For lenders, it was the massive event, right?
26:56
It was the collapse.
26:57
For agents, it was this kind of like slow building resentment at prices or out of control
27:03
and you make too much money.
27:06
We all know that the best way to make money in this country is to sue your way to it,
27:10
right?
27:11
I think that's changing now.
27:12
But enough attorneys listen to this, they see that dissatisfaction amongst consumers.
27:15
Like, you know what?
27:16
We got something here.
27:17
You ban people together and that's ultimately what happens.
27:20
But instead of getting mad at it, you have to look at, well, why did this happen?
27:25
Clearly, consumers, the market, whatever, things that we aren't good at what we do or that
27:29
we're not worthy of what we make or the role we play or that we are somehow replaceable.
27:34
So this is where I get very fired up about it, right?
27:36
It's the coach of me that comes out and it's kind of the rally cry of saying, no, guys,
27:40
we're a lot better than this, but we're going to have to prove it.
27:42
And there's a great challenge in front of us because again, the market is really split
27:46
right down the middle now.
27:48
And you're going to see with everything with the advancement of AI and more and more implementation
27:51
with technology that they're going to say, well, maybe I don't need you.
27:55
And maybe they're right to someone that understands a real estate or a mortgage transaction inside
28:00
and out like, Jeff, you don't need someone.
28:02
You could go through it like and use a platform.
28:04
I probably could do the same.
28:05
I would still probably choose to work with somebody, but people have choices now, but it's
28:10
a massive opportunity to level up.
28:11
So you're going to have to look at all these things and say, why does it happen and then
28:15
use it as an opportunity to get better as opposed to just getting mad at it and shouting
28:19
at the rain.
28:20
You put out your umbrella and you deal with it.
28:21
You get back to work, right?
28:22
Don't get rained on and simply keep pointing and shouting at the rain.
28:25
It's not going to stop it.
28:27
And I think for too long, so many people that are in industry, whether it's real estate
28:30
or lending have done so much rain shouting and getting upset, like, don't be a taxi cab
28:36
at the end of the day.
28:37
That's basically what happened to the taxi cab industry and why Uber leveled them.
28:40
They had a monopoly on this business, on essentially ride sharing and consumer transportation.
28:45
A monopoly.
28:46
How do you beat a monopoly?
28:47
You don't beat a monopoly.
28:49
The monopoly beats itself.
28:50
The consumer experience turned to shit.
28:52
Cab drivers were not nice.
28:54
They were, they had bathed.
28:56
They had terrible attitudes.
28:57
They had one redeeming quality, which was that they didn't require any GPS.
29:01
They knew streets and corners and markets and neighborhoods like the back of their
29:04
hand.
29:05
You gave them cross streets.
29:06
They were gone.
29:07
Now, they didn't play this when they finally did get disruptive, but enough people saw
29:09
it.
29:10
Capital on the sidelines and said, that's ripe for disruption.
29:13
So it can happen anybody.
29:15
But again, it's an indictment on just, you know, on what you're not doing and that's
29:19
what we, as an industry for ourselves, we don't want to turn into that.
29:22
We don't want to turn out like the taxi cab industry.
29:25
Okay.
29:26
So I'm a loan officer or a realtor and I'm listening to this.
29:29
I get it.
29:30
I see it happening around me, build a brand like we, you know, people have been beaten
29:33
that mantra for a long time, you know, but this I think has shifted now from brand to
29:37
media brand, you know, media company where you actually are putting out these assets of
29:43
content as a net, right, or as a top of the funnel discovery, right?
29:51
So why I'm thinking, I'm thinking through the average loan officer average realtor
29:56
listening to this and they hear it and they're like, I get it, but I, but what's next?
30:01
Like how do I even do that, you know, yeah.
30:04
So what's going to happen here guys is everybody through the exercise we talked about earlier
30:08
in terms of seeing how the market views you, then taking stock and figuring out and doing
30:12
the hard look at the minute, what you got to, what you're going to have to tweak or
30:15
you need to focus or if it's been working out well, what you need to double down on is
30:19
identify the things that you are very uniquely good at.
30:23
Sure there might be others that do something similar, I'm not saying you just, you know,
30:26
if you don't have exclusivity to it, therefore it doesn't matter, it doesn't count.
30:30
Figure out what you are uniquely good at and so good at.
30:34
It might be one thing, it might be two things, maybe it's your process, maybe it's, maybe
30:38
it's communication, maybe it's your ability to market, whatever it is, figure out what
30:42
that is and then look at the marketplace and take what it is that you're good at and
30:49
how does it uniquely solve the problems in that marketplace of those you are trying to
30:53
connect with.
30:54
It's really that simple and if we're lenders, we know that our real estate partners all
31:01
need to be better in the areas of AI through, you know, improving systems and creating
31:06
efficiencies and being better content creators, whether that's through video, email, bus stop
31:12
signs, billboard, whatever it is, okay, they need to be better content creators, it doesn't
31:16
always have to be video, that's the easiest way of course, but I know there's some people
31:19
that's like, I don't know.
31:21
So these, these are the areas we know that they are deficient in, they are being told
31:25
every day or every week in their sales meetings, get on video, get do this, do that, no real
31:30
estate company I know actually helps their agents with this.
31:35
They just keep telling them this and then the agents kind of have their hands up and they
31:37
strike their shows, I don't even know where to begin.
31:39
So they don't, which is why so few of them actually do anything in these areas, they talk
31:45
about it, they hear about it, but they never take action.
31:47
So be the uniquely qualified or uniquely positioned catalyst to affect the change in the marketplace
31:54
that way.
31:55
So figure out what it is that you're really good at, then ask yourself, how is this strength
31:58
of mine, this superpower of mine and maybe it's multiple ones, uniquely positioned to
32:03
solve the problems of the people that I want to work with.
32:06
And if you do that and you create that match, it's literally that simple.
32:10
You don't have to do anything crazy, you don't need coaches to tell you this, it's literally
32:14
that simple.
32:15
What are you good at?
32:16
How can it solve the problems in the marketplace, connect those dots and it's probably not
32:20
very many to connect guys when you really apply yourself and you have more than enough opportunity
32:25
to do that.
32:26
The other thing I'll tell you and this is going to be a total you turn on what most people
32:32
in an industry coach and guide lenders on is I like to personally, this is just directly
32:38
out of my playbook and I'm very transparent about it.
32:40
And if you want to take this, please steal it.
32:42
I have an exclusivity around or an error of exclusivity around the agents and the groups
32:49
that I work with.
32:51
First of all, agents are my number three set of referral partners in terms of ranking.
32:55
Number one are financial advisors, CPAs and attorneys, two is my database, past clients,
33:00
three are agents and I don't need them to be any higher than them because I work with
33:04
a very small group of agents.
33:06
I create exclusivity around it.
33:07
I've only got 20 to 25 I work with, okay, it's, you know, we just branded and we just
33:13
called it the LFG group, right, the LFG 20 or the LFG 25 will finalize it depending on
33:18
where I land on this number.
33:20
And for those people, I've created a very unique personal banking like experience for those
33:25
agents and the clients that they refer because I want to be able to serve them at a high
33:29
level and I'm not trying to be everything to everybody.
33:32
That's like, that's just a fool's errand to try and think.
33:35
I need to get 100 agents and I got 100 agents and some of them are giving me business.
33:39
That's a, you know, going back to before I said, fuck coffee.
33:42
That's a lot of coffee, you know, for 100 agents.
33:44
I'd rather work with the 20 or so that view me as an equal because I value my time and
33:51
I don't want to work with people that don't see me that way or that don't respect me
33:54
and that I don't respect back, you know, like, you can be selective about this.
33:58
Nobody says you have to have millions of people.
34:00
You got 20 or 25 or whatever you want to come up with.
34:02
Maybe it's 30, but I provide them a very, very fine list of incredible perks.
34:07
Their clients never pay for an appraisal.
34:09
Okay, that's a 500 hour expense on mine, but it goes so long.
34:12
They go to the front of the line for underwriting.
34:14
They get a promised 17 day close as long as we fully underwritten them, right?
34:18
They get no fees on future transactions with us, whether they're buying more property
34:22
or when they come back for refinances.
34:24
And we promise to keep in touch and monitor their mortgage for them.
34:28
One, this makes my room for partners look really good because we want to be an extension
34:31
of their sales or consumer experience.
34:34
And I tell them this.
34:35
So they're like, I love it because when I look back as to why they were so fiercely loyal
34:39
to the banks, the private banking visions here in my market, it wasn't just always rates.
34:45
Yes, the rates were great perks.
34:46
So it made the agent look like this hero.
34:48
You referred me to that guy.
34:49
He gave me a rate that you can't even print.
34:51
It doesn't even exist.
34:53
But they also got red carpet treatment.
34:55
Like why do you want to continue to spend money with an airline because you, you know,
34:59
so that you can get back into that club, the Sky Club, right?
35:02
I'm a Delta fanatic and I was in their Delta one lounge yesterday when I landed in Boston
35:06
after coming back from Barcelona.
35:07
It's like, when I'm in there, I'm like, this is why I fly Delta, right?
35:11
I know that I pay a little more sometimes and I'll take the extra stop instead of a direct
35:15
flight, but I do it because of these perks.
35:17
So we can, we can actually create that for the people that we work with, the clients and
35:21
the partners.
35:22
But the whole point of this guys is I created something very exclusive.
35:25
I posted it to my social media and said, I'm launching this program soon.
35:29
If you're an agent and you have interest in maybe lining to see if we'd be a good fit,
35:33
reach out to me.
35:34
The increase were through the roof.
35:36
Now they're coming to me.
35:37
Now they're singing for their supper.
35:39
They want to know if they're good enough to work with me and I have that control.
35:42
You know what guys?
35:43
If you're a lender, it's about fucking time that that happened, that that switch happened.
35:47
So I hope that this empowers you and makes you feel like, you know what?
35:51
Like fuck that.
35:52
I'm going to do it.
35:53
I'm going to turn the tables on them, right?
35:54
I want them to see, I want them to see if they're good enough to work with me for my
35:57
program.
35:58
So come up with a program.
35:59
Come up with something that's exclusive for your market.
36:01
Don't try and be everything to everybody.
36:04
Be something great to a select group of people that you want to work with.
36:08
Pick and choose who you work with, life's too short, work with good people, work with
36:11
people that you have alignment with, work with people that have the same sports affinities
36:15
you do.
36:16
Just pick and choose instead of getting your shins kicked in and I feel like you'll actually
36:20
find more harmony in this business.
36:22
You'll find more joy out of it and it'll attract the right people and you'll just be
36:26
happier.
36:27
Hmm.
36:28
I love that.
36:29
We're going to unpack that in a second.
36:30
Hey, are you tired of co-calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere?
36:34
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36:37
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36:42
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36:47
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36:48
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36:52
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36:55
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37:02
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37:09
single month that I've kept doing it.
37:11
Community is great.
37:12
Jump to the Friday calls.
37:13
It's awesome.
37:14
Have fun with it.
37:15
Teach as many classes as you can.
37:17
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37:18
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37:23
Book a call at mortgagedmarketing.pro or hit the link in the show notes.
37:27
Now back to our shop.
37:28
My first question though is when you put that out on social and you got people responding
37:31
and inquiring back, was there a percentage of those in there that weren't your A-level
37:37
relationships?
37:38
I said there was a bunch of them.
37:40
In fact, a lot of the people that responded were a lot of these people that kind of would
37:44
call me to split Zillow costs.
37:46
Right?
37:47
They were like the ones like, oh, I'm going to, this guy's giving out free shit again.
37:49
I want more of it.
37:50
You know, I was like, no, you're not actually, you know what, man, we're not that group
37:54
of fit.
37:55
And I actually had a conversation with one agent who's like, hey, how come I didn't get
37:58
him put into that group?
37:59
I was like, I'm going to be honest with you.
38:01
You know, you'd only call me for these things.
38:03
Like you'd open every conversation with what's the rate on this or will you split my
38:07
Zillow leads?
38:08
Or are you open to coming on Sunday?
38:10
You barely ever even asked how I'm doing.
38:12
Ever.
38:13
Right?
38:14
You didn't treat me like much of a human being.
38:15
I'd always even stop you and interrupt you.
38:16
I'm like, I'll just calm John for now.
38:18
Like John, how are you, man?
38:19
Or, you know, I saw that post online that your dad wasn't doing.
38:22
Well, how's he doing?
38:23
Oh, he's great.
38:24
Thanks for asking.
38:25
And then immediately just gets right into business.
38:26
I don't want to work with people like that.
38:27
So I told him this.
38:28
I know he didn't like it.
38:29
I got to tell you.
38:30
It felt pretty fucking good to say it to him finally after all these years and take
38:33
back some respect and posture into my court.
38:36
And then I moved on from it.
38:37
So yeah, you will find some people that'll come back and you'll kind of have your moment
38:41
of like, being able to, I'm not saying this in a vengeful way either, guys, but I just
38:46
know because I'm one of you, right?
38:48
Like I know what those frustrations are and how it feels and how your sense of worth is
38:53
like this, this like meter that goes up and down hot and cold multiple times in a day.
38:58
And I just don't like it.
38:59
And I don't want other people to have to suffer through it either.
39:02
Well, it reminds me of sometimes when I do webinars for loan officers, I'll talk about
39:06
the five reasons.
39:07
They don't get enough agent referrals.
39:09
And one of those is you have a week value proposition.
39:11
Yeah, big time, Jeff.
39:12
You're 100% right.
39:13
You just laid it out right there because it's the same as lame.
39:19
Your one-liners are the best.
39:20
They're the best.
39:21
I love it.
39:22
But I've been rehearsing for 20 years, you know?
39:24
Yeah.
39:25
Okay.
39:26
So when did you roll that and program out?
39:30
That program was actually earlier this year, I rolled it out, you know, and the response
39:34
was great.
39:35
We've kind of narrowed it down.
39:36
We're fine tuning in.
39:37
There's people, you know, maybe we'll stay on it, but we'll rotate them off.
39:40
But I created some exclusivity on it and guys, there's a little bit of a line, you know,
39:44
that's kind of forms invisibly of people who want into it.
39:48
And just being selective and that's a very empowering thing.
39:52
But it's also allowing me to do my best work because we can really focus on those people
39:57
and those relationships and just strengthen them, almost cement them.
40:00
So you're building like an inner circle, right?
40:02
Yes.
40:03
Yep.
40:04
And I know you also do events and things like that.
40:05
And maybe so you have like larger events, right?
40:08
Your LFG energy, events, is that correct?
40:10
That's correct.
40:11
Yeah.
40:12
And then do you also do just like a smaller inner circle thing just for those people?
40:15
We do.
40:16
Yeah.
40:17
So, you know, LFG and how it started, it's kind of like a, it's kind of a funny story
40:21
and it's really random.
40:22
That's how a lot of things start.
40:23
Like there was no real plan, it just evolved and then poof, it turned into something and
40:26
then you run with it.
40:27
And I would always, I love the phrase because, you know, Tom Brady says, it's so many people
40:32
say, let's fucking go.
40:33
And it was something I would use with the athletes.
40:35
I would say when I would compete, it's like honoring this like, this like inner energy.
40:40
And then just saying, let's go, you know, and I'm not going to hold back.
40:43
I'm not going to let the market dictate whether I'm good or bad.
40:45
Like I'm going.
40:47
So I would just start to say, so I had a written down on my desk.
40:49
I had one of the athletes that I coached to as a graphics designer come up with a logo
40:52
for it.
40:53
And it was just sitting there.
40:54
I didn't even know what I was going to do with it.
40:55
It was about three years ago.
40:57
And then I was hosting Ryan Sirhands for an event out here in San Francisco.
41:01
And the first one I did, I did a couple with them because I wanted to do something big.
41:04
I wanted to make a splash.
41:05
I wanted to take a chance and do something.
41:08
And it was like when the market was just first reopening out here and no one had been
41:11
doing an event, you know, because a lockdown to San Francisco is a fairly heavily lockdown
41:15
city at the time, you know, like with restrictions and whatnot.
41:19
So I got this event together.
41:21
I've launched the website.
41:22
I've already started selling tickets that I get a call from his office from one of his
41:25
guys, they're who I'm still friends with to this day, says, look, man, we kind of overlook
41:29
something.
41:30
You're a mortgage guy.
41:31
I'm like, yeah, duh.
41:32
Why?
41:33
How is this news now?
41:35
You know?
41:36
And he says, well, Ryan and the brand has kind of an exclusivity agreement with a major
41:40
bank in terms of marketing and promotion that has to do with anything with financial
41:43
services and or lending.
41:46
And so this is going to be very difficult to do.
41:48
I'm like, are you like difficult as in your canceling?
41:50
They're like, yeah, we might have to back out of it or cancel unless we can switch the
41:53
stuff.
41:54
I've already sold tickets.
41:55
I've like written a check here.
41:56
Like I told, I told all the kids at school, there's going to be a circus in my backyard.
42:00
And if you don't show up, I'm going to look like a jerk, basically, you know, like that's
42:03
what this was turning into.
42:04
So I was starting to sweat and then they're like, do you have anything else and ask corporate
42:08
something?
42:09
I'm like, yeah, but all my ass courts, you know, and corporations say capital or something
42:13
to do with money.
42:14
And they're like, anything.
42:15
And then I look down at my desk, because I'm on the phone.
42:17
I'm just glanced.
42:18
And there's the LFG logo that I'm like, you know what?
42:20
As a matter of fact, I do, it's called LFG Energy Presents.
42:23
I literally made it up in the seconds there on the call, Jeff, LFG Energy Presents.
42:28
It's an event hosting company.
42:31
And they said, oh, what is that stand for?
42:32
I said exactly what you think it stands for, stands for let's fucking go.
42:35
It's like, well, there's no conflict there.
42:36
That sounds great.
42:37
We'll just redo the contract and send it over to you.
42:39
I'm like, awesome.
42:40
I better turn this into something because it doesn't even exist.
42:44
And the guy said, you know, that's really cool.
42:46
Is this been around for a while?
42:47
Has it done some pretty big things?
42:48
I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's done a lot of big things.
42:52
Yeah, you better believe it.
42:53
Like, you know, why yes it has, and then it turned into something, right?
42:58
And then it's continued to evolve.
43:00
So then LFG Energy became a media company.
43:02
And underneath that, there is the podcast which focuses on just helping anyone to be a better
43:07
human and evolve their mindset and personally grow so that they can later professionally
43:11
grow.
43:12
Because I think the two have to have harmony and be in sync with one another, right?
43:15
And then we started an exclusive online only community called the LFG Society, which is
43:20
for high performers and people who want to become a high performer or unlock the secrets
43:24
of high performance, not necessarily just isolated to our industry.
43:29
And then there's LFG Energy Presents, which is the event hosting platform.
43:33
And then we've even started LFG Studios, which is like a little bit of a media company
43:36
and helping people out with their content and ideas and ideation.
43:40
So it's continuing to evolve.
43:42
But the great thing sometimes start by pure accident like that, you know, and I'm really
43:46
hopeful that this is going to be one of those great things.
43:48
Yeah, so real quick, I know people like to get a little bit specific and curious, the
43:53
LFG Society, and I'm looking at your site right now.
43:55
That's a paid membership, correct?
43:56
It is.
43:57
It's a paid membership.
43:58
I wanted to give people proximity to something similar to what we have or what we hear about
44:03
nationally with all these great masterminds, which are expensive.
44:05
But if you're in the right one, they are worth every penny.
44:08
But what they're creating is physical proximity and the ability to be there, but also be like
44:13
kind of being that student teacher or dynamic with some really high level thought leaders
44:17
of people that you would otherwise have access to.
44:19
And they're great.
44:20
I'm part of a couple.
44:21
They're life changing.
44:23
I wanted to create something online that was a little bit more accessible, hence lower
44:26
cost, maybe not the same level because you can't recreate that, but you can do it virtually.
44:32
But giving people proximity and also the collaboration and the space to be able to recognize
44:37
amongst everyone is kind of in the same trenches, all going through similar personal battles
44:42
or professional battles, and that we can actually kind of grow amongst each other.
44:46
Because a lot of these thought leaders and these people that we listen to with masterminds,
44:50
they're like decades ahead of us, and they're amazing to listen to.
44:52
And very few of us can actually implement or take to heart every single thing that they
44:57
taught us or shared with us and put it to work.
44:59
So we'll get something from it, but it's not like this full string of impact.
45:03
But Jeff, you and I sit next to each other, you being someone who's been in this industry
45:07
for a long time and someone who has so much respect for and what you've created, I can
45:11
learn a lot from you and we can share because we share in some of this struggle.
45:15
So there's that more of that collaboration, which is why we created this, then I feel
45:21
like it's going to have a much greater impact.
45:22
So it started a little over a year ago, almost two years ago now, I think.
45:27
And that's been incredibly fulfilling and rewarding.
45:30
It's what I'm seeing people do with it, has been really special, forming businesses of
45:34
their own, starting things, going off on their own, leaving their brokerage, whatever
45:38
it is.
45:39
So it's been really cool.
45:40
Well, the reason why I want to touch on that for a moment is because there's a few
45:44
L.O.'s I know around the country that are doing their own version of this.
45:48
And so you've got some in-person meetings and things like that and you have calls and
45:51
you're bringing people to the community and you charge for it.
45:55
And one of the things I want, this is a paradigm shift for a lot of loan officers who
46:00
think realtors will not pay you for something, right?
46:04
And you've proven that not to be the case as other L.O.'s that I know and work with, where
46:08
to your point, you've created your own community of tremendous value.
46:13
It has value.
46:14
And so it should have a price attached to it or else they won't value it as much.
46:19
And you, I just wanted you to confirm that for those loan officers listening who are
46:23
wondering, well, why would a realtor ever pay me to come to a community?
46:28
What would you say to them?
46:30
I'd say you're not valuing yourself the way you should, right?
46:33
We talked about that earlier.
46:34
Like if you want to be seen as different or if I can jump in here, maybe, maybe the
46:40
value you don't have to be the value, you can be the facilitator of value.
46:45
100%.
46:46
That's so well said, Jeff, like sometimes we think we have to have this, you know, million
46:50
dollar idea.
46:51
And if it's not going to be that, but you know what there is, I got this from my very
46:55
first podcast guest on the LFG Energy Podcast, not the first episode, but the first guest.
47:00
He said there's no such thing as million dollar ideas.
47:02
There's a million dollar execution and execution can also be synonymous with facilitation.
47:10
Facilitating is part of executing.
47:11
So if you are facilitating collaboration, you are facilitating a thought leader with your
47:16
audience and you're part of it.
47:18
They got there because of you.
47:19
You invited them to this party, therefore you're the hero, right?
47:21
And so you couldn't have said that better, Jeff, and I'm so glad you did it.
47:25
It can be facilitation.
47:27
And then through facilitation and through your own personal growth and learnings and development,
47:31
you'll have things that you'll contribute sometimes by way of accident, which will move
47:34
the needle in people's lives or businesses.
47:36
And you'll start to develop confidence in footing in this space.
47:39
But in the beginning, don't let that hold you back of thinking, I don't have anything
47:43
to really share.
47:44
Like what am I?
47:45
I've got one idea.
47:46
I'll be done in one week.
47:47
Like that's one meeting.
47:48
No, you just be the facilitator.
47:49
If you have this drive to be able to go out and create contacts in our community now, Jeff,
47:54
I think you'd agree because you really are a pioneer for this.
47:57
And I have to, again, thank you for it so many times.
48:00
You've created so much collaboration and proximity through all, like through the show and
48:05
through thing and group, but our industry, I think you'd agree is so much more collaborative
48:09
and closer connected now than it's ever been.
48:11
It used to be so fragmented and people would be closed off and you could never talk to
48:15
that guy because he's such a big producer.
48:17
People will talk.
48:18
Like I think everyone has developed this great, selfless, abundant mindset now.
48:23
But if you are just willing to go out and just shake some hands and ask some questions
48:27
and say hello and put yourself out there, you can facilitate anything you want.
48:30
You really can.
48:31
Well, I just love the idea of the community because I think that's one way to differentiate
48:35
yourself and to build this unique thing that people are attracted to you and they get
48:40
due in the value association.
48:42
I want to riff on one more thing if you don't mind.
48:44
And we'll begin to kind of land this plane.
48:47
You and I were both at the forward event, great event.
48:50
And then I think her name is Shadez.
48:53
Is that how you pronounce her name?
48:54
If you remember her.
48:56
Yes.
48:57
Shadez.
48:58
Yeah.
48:59
She had this great quote I wrote down which is, you are the messenger of value.
49:03
You do not need experience to bring value to it.
49:07
And I was like, that's exactly what you're doing.
49:10
You're the messenger of value.
49:11
You are assembling value and you're packaging it in a way that makes it a palatable, interesting
49:18
and exciting for your audience, your local realtors, other professionals, affiliates and
49:25
all these other.
49:26
So now what you've built is this out through this LFG community and I'll one little other
49:30
hot take from the forward because I've just been doing my recap was your idea who told
49:33
me to do a recap the forward.
49:34
Yeah.
49:35
So I'm glad you did.
49:36
I'm glad you did.
49:38
So you've helped me with that but the other thing you may remember Cody Sanchez said distribution
49:43
is king.
49:44
Yes.
49:45
And so what you're doing is you're building this community of value and you're the distributor
49:49
slash facilitator of value, of ideas, of people, of resources.
49:55
And that is the new way to level up your brand in today's world and attract everything
50:01
you want to you.
50:02
100% and don't ever forget, guys, one of the greatest needs as a human being is to
50:06
be seen or to be acknowledged and community gives people that opportunity.
50:11
If you bring people into your community, don't just bring them in and collect whatever
50:14
you collect, whether it's a cost or something or a trade off or business, whatever it is
50:19
and just leave it at that because then you're just being no different than the transactional
50:22
types, but actually see them, acknowledge them, get to know people and connect with them
50:28
on a human level because if you see that and you shed light on that, you'll start to really
50:32
affect change.
50:33
And that's been the most rewarding thing in this journey of building community, creating
50:38
community and expanding community, speaking on stages or whatever is having that connection
50:43
with people.
50:44
So see people, acknowledge them because that's a huge need.
50:48
And if they feel seen in your group, think about the greatest groups that you love being
50:51
part of or the masterminds, whatever.
50:53
What is it about it?
50:54
You love it.
50:55
I guarantee you the roots or the common denominator will be across multiple ones is something
51:00
in the area of being seen or acknowledged.
51:02
I feel like I'm matter here.
51:04
I feel like I belong here.
51:05
I feel like people look at me here, you know, I'm heard, right?
51:10
These are human needs so we can take that and apply it to whatever community or sense
51:13
your building.
51:14
I think you have greater impact.
51:15
Yeah.
51:16
So look, if that was just one idea you took away from today, which was start to think about
51:19
how you can build your own community, it doesn't have to be perfect.
51:23
It will grow and evolve over time, but just figure out a way to get people in the room,
51:27
to get people together and you will grow.
51:31
You will attract the right, you will attract, like it says, your vibe will attract your
51:34
tribe.
51:35
So let's do this.
51:37
So here we are about to enter August of 2025.
51:43
I don't know if you saw this, but the job support that just came out of the two that have come
51:48
out.
51:49
One was not positive.
51:50
And then I guess there's another one coming tomorrow, if I'm correct.
51:52
And so we might see some negative news on the job front, which might lead to the pressure
51:57
around rate cuts.
51:58
Let's get a little tactical for a second.
52:01
Obviously, a lot of people are hoping for rate cuts, right?
52:03
But I mean, the market is whatever the market is, right?
52:05
And there's business to be had out there.
52:07
But with that said, you're a coach.
52:11
You're great at advising and training people.
52:13
Maybe this is for your own plan for the rest of this year, but what would you advise people
52:17
to do the rest of this year to build momentum for, you know, end of 25 into 26?
52:25
Well, two things.
52:26
And the first thing is to take a deep breath in spite of all this rollercoaster that we've
52:30
been on and this wild ride, which is not ending anytime soon, guys.
52:34
So just get used to it, right?
52:35
And that's what the business is.
52:37
It's supposed to be this way.
52:40
Acknowledge that the need for shelter and housing is never going away.
52:44
So no matter how bad things ever get, it's never going to stop.
52:47
People will always need a roof over their head, whether it's government subsidized or in
52:51
the form of rent or they actually pay a mortgage.
52:53
It's never going away.
52:54
So taking a step back and recognizing that my competition is decreasing with the amount
52:58
of people that leave this industry month over month.
53:02
And the fact that the market isn't changing its needs, it's just going through certain
53:07
ebbs and flows.
53:08
So when I recognize that, okay, great, there's a need for me.
53:11
Like I will have value in this market no matter what or how I just need to choose to see
53:15
it that way.
53:17
The second thing is is to, you must do this with like, I call it with violence.
53:22
I think Hormosi says that, right, when you build a brand, he was asked, like, how did
53:25
you build it?
53:26
He's like, through violence.
53:27
He doesn't mean physical violence.
53:28
He meant like every piece of content that was out there was a slap that you were throwing
53:32
on the market.
53:33
He was slapping the market.
53:34
Like, you need to, you need to through violence, literally, you know, digitally speaking.
53:41
Establish yourself as an authority or as a media source of optimism, of reason and clarity.
53:48
All of us do a massive disservice to this marketplace when we sit in the middle and you
53:52
have consumers on one end of the spectrum and the legacy media on the opposite side, reigning
53:56
on them stories of negativity and confusion or that the Fed controls mortgage rates.
54:00
No, they don't.
54:01
Is there influence?
54:02
They're sure.
54:03
But how do you expect people to understand this if we don't speak up?
54:07
And if you look now where people are getting their news source, whether it's good or bad,
54:10
they're not trusting legacy media.
54:11
They will listen to whoever steps into the microphone and builds the audience.
54:15
And this is what gives rise to conspiracy theory.
54:19
So that's maybe good or bad.
54:20
It also gives rise to just general truth speakers.
54:23
That could be good or bad too, because maybe the version of the truth is not the right one.
54:27
The point is is that you have an opportunity to do it, but you have to literally stand
54:30
up and intercept those messages that are coming from the media and present it back to
54:34
the audience.
54:35
Here's what this means to you.
54:36
Here's what you should do.
54:37
Here's my thoughts on this.
54:38
If you do this consistently, you will start to find that people in your community or
54:42
in your audience, they view you as the news authority.
54:45
They're actually coming back to you and saying, Jeff, I actually, I wanted, I was waiting
54:48
for your take on that thing with that job before, because I actually trust you more than
54:51
I trust CNBC or Diana Olick or any of these other guys who are like, I know maybe there's
54:58
an agenda.
54:59
People just don't trust traditional forms of media.
55:01
We don't have to get into whether that's good or bad, but it's the truth.
55:04
It's just the way it is now, which gives all of us unique opportunities.
55:08
If we do so genuinely and with a high degree of sincerity and integrity to build an audience
55:14
and connect with people and be these presenters of truth, of light, of optimism.
55:17
And that's what people are going to be attracted to.
55:19
So that would be my plan for anyone.
55:21
That's what I'm doing.
55:22
I'm doubling down, tripling down on it more.
55:24
For the back end of this year, I'm imploring every mortgage professional out there, right?
55:29
If you want to be seen as someone different in this market, then let's start being different,
55:33
like I said, act different.
55:34
Be a news authority and broker this news to people and cut through all the nonsense and
55:40
tell people why it's okay, why the sky's not falling or here's what this means for
55:44
you or here's why you should give it down.
55:45
And if you keep doing this consistently, I promise you.
55:47
You do this as a promise.
55:48
You can take me up on this and send me a DM and I'll buy you dinner if you win the bet
55:53
because you won't.
55:54
I'm going to win this bet.
55:55
You do it for six months straight.
55:56
For the rest of this year, the back end of the year or however many months we have left,
56:00
I guarantee you when 2026 starts, you are going to be in a totally different place in
56:04
this market than you were right now at this point.
56:07
And that's a promise.
56:08
Yeah, that's a great point.
56:09
Way to end on that, man.
56:11
Okay, so this has been a great conversation.
56:13
I'm sure people listening want to connect with you more.
56:15
So let's give them all the places.
56:16
First of all, the links will be in the show notes.
56:18
So make that easy if you're listening wherever right now, look in the show notes.
56:21
But where would you like people to go to follow you as Instagram, your preferred place?
56:26
Instagram definitely.
56:27
That's where I connect with people.
56:28
I answer all my own DMs.
56:30
Sometimes it's a little slow, but I'd love to connect with people and I'm happy to help
56:33
anyone anytime.
56:35
So okay.
56:36
So at yeah, that handle that's at our June mortgage.
56:39
We'll put that link in the show notes.
56:40
We'll also link up everything else you got your podcast, the society, LFG.com.
56:46
So people can begin to follow you, got a YouTube channel as well.
56:49
And I would say, look, I mean, if you heard a couple of things here that inspired you,
56:51
these ideas of community and being a media brand and you're early on that journey, here's
56:57
what I do.
56:58
I follow people like Arjun and I just learn from him and I watch him and I go, oh, wow,
57:01
that's cool.
57:02
He's doing that.
57:03
Hmm.
57:04
I think I'm going to borrow that idea.
57:05
Take it.
57:06
Please.
57:07
Deal it.
57:08
Do it better than me.
57:09
So why not?
57:10
Anyway, man.
57:11
Listen, I always appreciate you.
57:12
Thank you so much for what you do in our industry, you know, raising the bar in so many
57:15
ways you do and also just, you know, leading with abundance.
57:19
Thanks, Jeff.
57:20
I appreciate you, brother.
57:21
Your podcast is a big part of my week.
57:22
It's helped me out with more content creation than you know, and I'll give you credit
57:26
for it.
57:27
And so I, you know, I applaud you for everything you do for us, man.
57:30
So right back at you.
57:31
My pleasure.
57:32
All right.
57:33
Listen, listen.
57:34
When you connect on Instagram, you go follow Arjun right now via the Instagram link
57:36
in the show notes.
57:37
Share with him.
57:38
DM him.
57:39
You're one big takeaway from this conversation.
57:41
I guarantee he's going to respond to you, just be patient because he's busy, but he will
57:45
respond to you.
57:46
So everybody, thanks for tuning in.
57:47
You know what to do.
57:49
Like this episode.
57:50
Share it.
57:51
DM Arjun.
57:52
And we'll see you on the next one.
57:53
And that's fucking go.
57:54
There you go.
57:55
Okay.
57:56
That's it for today's episode.
57:57
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58:33
Thanks for listening.
58:34
And I'll see you on the next episode.