Latest / The Uplift- with Luke Pollock / #20 - Josh Hanlon - 25/26 Season Business and Playing Reflections
Transcript
- Luke Pollock: We're recording back with big Josh Hanlon, boy. Thanks for back on, Josh, We're just going to have a bit more of casual chat. About all things, Rugger, life is self-employed. Kind of don't much work in day type of bloke. Yeah, Josh, how you keeping? Josh Hanlon: Thanks for Luke Pollock: Could be worse. Half-time on Wednesday morning could be a lot worse. What's the crack? How is the body after a long season in the All-Ireland league? Josh Hanlon: Definitely was fairly sore at the end of the season. Took a few lighter weeks Just less structured training and just led by Seltzer for a while. Feeling pretty good now, shoulders still giving me a bit of grief but we're on the mend. So I'm parking shoulder, feeling pretty good. Luke Pollock: Tell the people what you did to your shoulder. Josh Hanlon: Well, like most rugby players, just tore my IC with two or three games ago in the year and then obviously just trying to keep playing. Obviously just kept playing because that's what we do. And yeah, that just didn't really get us out there cover. So, yeah, that's where we're at. Luke Pollock: Obviously just can't plan, but imagine. So where are you at with it now? Can you like overhead press? Josh Hanlon: can overhead press very light. And I think to be fair, there's probably a bit of a deeper issue in the shoulders as well, the Maritainer cuff, et cetera. But can overhead press all right? Horizontal pressings, I'm no go at the minute, but we're back to body to press ups at the minute, so it's fine. Luke Pollock: Yeah, it's my AC joints are so long. I get so many messages about that as well. I've done my ACJ. What should I do? And unless it's like a grade three or four, I don't really know what to say. If it's like grade one or two, you literally just rest and slowly reintroduce movements, but like overhead movement. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah. It's mad how quickly it settles down when you're not charging into boys two or three times a week as well. Like even after or two weeks in the office, I felt a whole lot better already. So yeah, just rest and then try and get back to things whenever it sort of settles down a wee bit. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, I know everything's a lot easier when you're actually, I know it sounds obvious, but if you can just get to the end of the season, you're winning. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, before I was lucky enough the time frame had happened, was only two or three games left. So I was able to get through it alright, but definitely wouldn't have wanted me to manage it all the way through the season. That would have been definitely not enough I'd say. Luke Pollock: You're winning. Yeah. Similarly with my, uh, osteitis pubis, it's been, been around since about like October, November time, I would say. So it's been a long while of playing at like, well, I'll probably back up to about 90 % now, but there were times it was definitely like 60 % I'll train in and, um, Yeah, it's just a long season, but I'm happy that I managed to stay on the pitch as well. And I think if you just get... Josh Hanlon: Do you find it easier if you have a week off or you didn't have week on the Luke Pollock: Yeah, but weirdly, mate, it doesn't actually get that much better. So I've been like testing stuff throughout the season, like complete rest versus light activity versus like, you know, a full week in training plan and complete rest is definitely not better than, light activity. Like, so if I, if I do nothing, like, and then go back to, to run and it, it flares up pretty bad. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: So I find like the happy medium is to yeah, yeah, definitely. It's just so weird. It's a really weird one to manage, and there's not that much like research or literature on it. Like I'm the first proper case that I've encountered. Obviously the more I've dove into it, know that other other boys do struggle with it, but it's more like the GAA. Yeah, I think it's just because they might run and they have to do. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, seems to be quite common, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Luke Pollock: But yeah, it is so weird. I think, so I think the plan for off season for me in terms of that maybe week rest after this game Saturday here. And then just into like, get back into training as much as I can, but just limit the change of direction. Cause that's what really gets you when I'm like high running and change of direction. Which as a back, ⁓ it tend to do fair bit of. But yeah, it's a weird one. I'm thinking I might actually document more of it, like probably just on the podcast and see how it's going. Because obviously I would want to help eventually, like help other people with it as well. But definitely not confident enough in what I'm doing at the minute. there's few. Yeah, there's an Irish lad. I think he's called like Branda King or something or Ander King, sorry, King. And he does a of stuff on groins. So I've been listening to him flat out. Yeah, he calls it like athletic groin pain. So if anyone's struggling with that right now and listening to this, please let me know and let me know what you've done, what's helped, what doesn't. I can definitely tell some stuff that aggravates and some stuff that makes it feel a little bit better. yeah, it's a bit of a ball. And the MRI didn't really help tell me much. So yeah, is what it is. What's your plans for the offseason, big dog? Josh Hanlon: As I said, took a few night-hour weeks, two or three weeks. Didn't do a whole heap, a couple of sporadic gym sessions and maybe around one or five, but that was about it. Just left the body selling the irons, feeling fairly sore. Actually, I had to play, I think it was like nine or ten, start nine or ten games in a row. The second half of the season, considering the previous season, wouldn't be like me at all considering the previous season I didn't. Luke Pollock: I wouldn't be like you lot. Josh Hanlon: I had a couple of niggles and stuff and struggled with game time. Definitely the first time I've done that in a while, as long as can remember. I bought it in a few weeks off. Back to it now, it felt pretty good. This season I had a couple of niggles but I didn't miss any. games through injury the whole year, which again is probably the first for me, so I was happy enough in that sense. main focus of the match was to get the shoulder shorted. Yeah, just trying to get back to sort of hit some strength PRs and stuff in the offseason as well. I feel like last offseason I still rehabbed my leg quite flat out, so it maybe took away from sort of chasing those. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: all time PRs strength wise but I feel like a pretty good place in the minute so I get my shoulder shorted and then just try and get back to where my strength definitely once was when I was maybe a bit younger. Luke Pollock: do you start back ⁓ season? Or ⁓ sorry. Josh Hanlon: We have a new coach this year, have a two week block in the end of June. We have a two week block in the end of June and then ⁓ weeks off and then back in. So I think it's the 14th of July or something. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ break now. Luke Pollock: McKeever boy Nice. Is that the first time you're doing that? Is he just introducing that? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, usually we'd start back to the second week in July, so this is a bit earlier, but I think it's good because obviously a new coach coming into the environment, it'd be good to get everyone sort of... And then we don't even have preseason fixtures as such, it's more straight into the Ulster League senior cup, which is like August, the end of August, so you don't actually have that long of a preseason over here. I know you maybe have a bit longer, but like it's not... By the time you do your first couple of weeks, turn around and then it's like ⁓ or two weeks here until we actually have a match. So you have to kind of get into things quite quickly. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of not. Well, I don't know for it's different because everyone's different, but I feel like it's less and less of an option now to just do nothing over your offseason. Would you agree? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, especially, yeah, 100%. Just because, like even last year, I think our preseason, our first game was like, I don't know if I was the 20th, roughly in around the 20th of August last year. And we started back preseason, maybe like the, it was around the 14th, 15th of July. So it's just over a month really, preseason. So if you think about it and you don't do anything for the off season, which can be three months for some of that. Yeah, you're gonna be seriously up against it then come August, September time. You almost need to be fit and do that. If you think about traditional pre-seasons that are like 10 weeks, eight, 10, 12 weeks long, they spend the first couple weeks just running and sort of that base. So if you haven't done that by the time you go into pre-season, you're definitely gonna be left behind. The reality is we just don't have time to sort of make up. high drumming volumes and spare neck fill sessions just doing Conditioner. Luke Pollock: whatever you do in the ⁓ four like four before your first game isn't gonna be enough like like you said, it's literally just time Because I remember like I could get away with not doing much over The offseason then I was probably always doing some form of other sport, you know Which kept you fit even if it's just like five aside football or something Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: But now it feels like my, my preseason's actually been, we just got told last night because we, because we've played an extra month than we were supposed to because of playoffs. Um, you know, we're not back into the 20th of July, which is pretty class to be fair, but, um, it's just confirmed to me. Cause I was thinking I'll probably going to keep it quite chill and just try to rehab the groin. But I know I'm going to have to come up with like an actual plan of what I'm doing June, June and July. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: Because I also think, and I don't know if you agree, that if you go in for four or six weeks and you try and coaches are just chucking a load of run a load at you, you're trying to change too much too quickly. Like if you're trying to change body composition, the naturally that'll sort of happen. You're trying to get fitter. Then you're trying to learn a load of new plays, trying to compete for a spot, et cetera. And then that's when, that's when blow up. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I agree. You want to go into preseason almost like, yesterday you started working there in fitness and stuff, like, like imagine ⁓ if started at the of July, one of your first games would be September time then. Luke Pollock: Yeah, depends if we go into the champ or not. But if we're not one, it's still early September. But if we go into the champ, if we win the game on Saturday, hopefully, it'll be like later September, I think. Josh Hanlon: These are gonna be somewhere else. ⁓ Yeah, so you're similar enough to us in the sense that don't have weeks and weeks of preseason to get yourself sorted. I think, yeah, what you want to avoid is the mad spikes in the lobe as well. So like if you come off the back of the very little or nothing for two or three months of the offseason, then go back into preseason and all of sudden, coaches are expecting you to be at a certain level and you're not there. And there's just a big spike in the lobe. Like, me, are you seeing lads here? hamstrings go on the first two or three weeks and braces and their calves are just because they're gone from like whenever they were doing maybe nothing, maybe very little to like here and they're spacing like a week or two and it's just the body just can't hack it like Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, it's also, I think it's also on the coaches as well. Like you used to have an S &C, don't you? Yeah, a lot of, like we don't have an S &C. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. But it's almost like what I'm taking from what I can see, like we're expected to have done two weeks for Southend in June and then the two weeks after that is like you're expected to be running on your own, know? So whenever we come back in July, you're almost already up to that running volume that we're going to be hitting in mid-July. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, especially important for boys like us who like, yeah, like who naturally aren't maybe like we've both just come off the back of last season pretty bad for both of us through injury and selection. And then started this year, were both calling other, not getting picked or on the bench or whatever. So especially for like the boys who have to work a bit harder like us. you wanna be going and feeling like. Yeah, I don't know what I'm trying to Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I was actually speaking to a lot of coaches there the other day, but was like some lads would get away with doing very little and probably playing golf all preseason or all off season and doing minimal gym stuff. like, I'm definitely not one of them lads. Like if I didn't go in preseason and get a necklaces, I just wouldn't be able to play. My body would firstly break down with it in three weeks. and also just wouldn't get them to play well. I just know for a fact, I've always been like that. But yeah, you just definitely have lads in probably every team who are very gifted and talented and can just sort of cruise around. They all seem to come in and nail a pre-season, still probably going to play well, you know. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, do think you'd rather be that type of person? Josh Hanlon: I probably take bits of it, know, but I quite like doing the work it gives me something to work towards. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: And I've always been like that since the start of the plan, I've always in my head was to do the work, just to sort of be at a decent level. Luke Pollock: Yeah, you also get like definitely wouldn't and I definitely wouldn't be doing what we do now for a job if were lad. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, definitely. I actually did put some there. was like, everyone sort of comes to a point where you're if I, when you're developing through a way and coming up, you get to a point where you're like, if I just do what everyone else does here, it's probably not going to leave me in a good place. So you have to kind of take your own approach, work on what you actually need to work on. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I'm just being like... Yeah, realizing that you're not that guy who can, you're not Finn Russell, you know, just realizing you're not that guy on the team who can just rock up and doesn't matter what he does, doesn't really matter what shape he's in, he's always gonna get picked. I think realizing that for me, whenever, obviously I didn't, like. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah. Luke Pollock: Probably was when I was like 18 when I like left the Ulster stuff. I was like, I'm not the guy who just walks into teams. Like I'm the one who has to work hard. like when I work hard, yeah, I'll have a decent chance of getting in the team. But if I just left up to like, oh yeah, Talon or coaches follow over, I definitely would like, I don't think I would still be playing because I would have just, I would have just lost my head and played lower level and then probably just quit, you know? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. I if you're sort of on and talented from a really young age, maybe you just sort of get used to not having do that. I'm not saying the lads don't do the work like they definitely do in some capacity and just probably in different areas. But like if you're always ⁓ guaranteed starter getting picked in every team, like you sometimes, feel like on the flip side, then if you're Sorry, enough for more of the fringes, you know, we have to go and do the work otherwise you just won't be able to compete like. Luke Pollock: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's actually like a hidden, what I'm trying to say is that is and what you're saying is like that's a blessing in disguise, I think. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I agree, yeah. Luke Pollock: Although when I'm on a Tuesday morning running on off season, I will be jealous of the boys not having to do that or whatever. Josh Hanlon: then that's the only goal first. Luke Pollock: Yeah, yeah. What about like a selection stuff and how have you, how did you find it? Like looking back on that start of the season when you were just consistently on the bench or not getting much game time. Josh Hanlon: looking back on it, I like it. I... I like I probably handled it reasonably well in the sense that I wasn't really getting a start and was getting game time here and there but just, I think it's very different whenever you get consistent game time and from a starting position as well I find. But I definitely... think all you can do in that situation is to stay ready for, like, having half hope that you're eventually going to get your chance and then when you do get your chance you need to take it. Which I did around Christmas time and the start of, yeah, the start of the year. And yeah, season was, went significantly uphill, better for me anyway, after that. But yeah, I feel like everyone sort of just goes through periods of that even and you can go from like... Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: the flip side where you're guaranteed starter on the bench or you get an injury and then you're on the bench. It was kind of fair enough at the start of season that I hadn't played in over a year. I hadn't played a match in over a year. I was expecting to on the bench for a while but then after a couple of weeks you can get a sick of being on the bench and like, right, what's next for me here? So just so happened that I ended up playing more in the back row and then played at Hager in quite a lot of games as well. Yeah, I think all you can do in that situation is make sure you keep taking over and make sure the body's ready. And be fair, I definitely worked hard in terms of the actions and stuff in those weeks that be with limited game time or didn't plan for a match or like top-ups games or after training or the week, whatever it was. And then it meant whatever I did get my opportunity, I was ready to go. And like, I didn't feel I was having to. make up machs in this or whatever. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think like what you've just said there is complete head knowledge for me anyway. Like, ⁓ yeah, I know I should do all that, but because I wasn't so for context, I also playing on the twos when I came to this club. So I missed all pre-seasons. I started off in the twos and I thought it might be one or two games, but ended up being like seven or something before I got a proper in the team. And yeah, it's All those things are true. You're like, we're looking back on it. I'll kept the head down opportunity will come back in the moment. It's almost like you're don't know. It's just so hard in the moment to see out of the little well that you feel like you're in, know, Josh Hanlon: Yeah, week to week is definitely hard, especially like you can sort of lose a bit of hope there. Yeah, it can be really easy to take the foot off the gas and just be like, I'm just stuck here. know what mean? But like when you put it in perspective and like I'll say, I know we spoke a lot about it. next thing you glance at the club or other coaches and stuff as well. I think. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, can, it can be, if you zoom out and go like where you're playing for one of the biggest clubs in London, like in that league, you just personally get promoted into the champ. Like I'm planning for sort of top league in Ireland. Like we have some of the best club players in the country in our team. Like, so makes sense that you hire, climb the levels. Like it's going to be, there's the... ⁓ fire for entry is going to be hard, what mean? You can't really expect to just walk into teams as much as maybe you would have before and you have to realise that there's going to be guys in your position that are equally as good as you, if not better. Sometimes it's just a case of they're playing well and there's no reason to take them out of the team if they're playing well and you're sort of... maybe you haven't got your... Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: I haven't shown what you're feeling, I move a little bit, you know? Luke Pollock: Yeah. And I think you, when ⁓ was in that position, when you were in that position, it was very, ⁓ it's so helpful to talk to someone else. But often are like, just take your time. know, opportunity will come, but you want to say to them, boy, I know you don't understand because ⁓ the likes this person and there's this person ahead of me. But that advice literally like always is true. You just if you zoom out far enough, is worth keep going. Like it is worth it to keep going. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. But, and also you can get it, yeah, as you said in a really negative headspace and being like, well, this is a personal thing on me. Like the coach just doesn't like me. And you're like, it's probably not that, like at the end of the day, it's like the coach is trying to manage his full squad of players. And as I said, if the player is playing well and there's lots of depth throughout the squad, like he's not thinking about you half as much as you think he is thinking about you. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: So it's not a personal thing. Ultimately, every player is going be that position at some stage in their career and then you get the players to keep their head down, get through it and then they're the ones that actually are starting. For the lads, we would start regularly for our club now. all the past couple years, all spent periods where they might be trying to break into the starting 15 or periods on the bench that would come back off injury where they're on the bench or... struggle to get game time, but lads who kept their head down kept trying to get better and they get their opportunities now. Luke Pollock: yeah, it's such a weird thing because like it's so easy to look back on. I'm just thinking now like so clear to me now that like obviously stay at the club and just keep doing what you're doing. Like obviously by the time everything was sound like now throw your toys out the pram like ⁓ you know have that like say things you shouldn't or Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: even like threatened to leave the club or whatever. those things really did like cross my mind because I thought what am I doing? I'm supposed to be in the prime of my playing career and I'm like not where I want to be. But now when I look back, I'm like I've had one of the best seasons of my life and like for fun wise, probably plan wise, I'm still not quite where I want to be. But like wise, it's been unreal. I'm so happy I like just kept the lid on things and didn't let it blow over at the time. But yeah, it's so, it's so easy to say and so hard to do ⁓ time. It's one of those weird things. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, probably all. Yeah, and it all comes back to like. I was just wanting things to, I know we probably speak about this quite a lot in terms of other aspects as well, but like just you want everything to happen quicker than it's actually going to happen like in every other league. Everything that's actually half decent or worth achieving or worth getting is going to take it by the time. So like it's as we said, like the higher level you play, like it's going to take more time and it's going to take more work. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think you also find out, I don't know you realize this, but it kind of annoyed me how much I realized that I still care about rugby. put like, ⁓ as we would say this, like if when we were on the bench and stuff, like it just ruins your whole, I don't know, ruins, like, yeah, it can ruin like days for me. Like I would, I would be annoyed for days and I would obviously come out of it after a little bit, but. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: Yeah, like it's still a massive part of my life because obviously, yeah, but you spend it. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, it's all the work that you spend or that you do around it, like around your gym sessions and like, like being a plan, a sport isn't just like the two training sessions that you do on Tuesday or Thursday and a math on Saturday, like it affects else you do and all the other decisions you make. Like you don't make, don't go out on a Friday night. don't like. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: You're trying to prioritize your sleep every night. All the food you eat, you just go at the top of the gym sessions, you know mean? And then if you're not getting the rewards that you want, like straight away, then all of sudden it can become like, and it's like November and it's minus three degrees and pitch black, and you're trying to force a gym session there and they're just like, this is tight going. your mates are going to the pub on a Friday night and you're like, nah, I'm on the bench here tomorrow, can't go. It just makes... Luke Pollock: Yeah, on traveling reserve. Even better. Even better. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, or TRIP. Yeah. And like, makes it the sit, which is usual to sit, if you're playing well and you're enjoying your rugby and you're loving it, like those things are easy. it's like, this is what I do. But then when you're not seeing the rewards, it's where people can sort of start to get upset. And some people, there's definitely lot of people that just put it all in there. You know what mean? Go and play somewhere else, sir. Go and play lower league. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: But ultimately you have to remember why you did it. For us, we want to play at a high level. Luke Pollock: Yeah, and I think in some it is right to move on. Yeah, at the end of the season, right to consider that. But yeah, like when I was at Cardiff last year, was definitely the right decision for me to move on because I could tell my time was up there. The had sort of lost the trust in me as a player, you know, and that probably wasn't a keep the head down scenario. But this year was completely different. was like I hadn't really earned my stripes in the club yet, et cetera. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I think it's different. If you go the whole season and you haven't been given a fair shot or a fair opportunity, then it's a bit different. You're like, right, what is actually going on here? Is there path for my progression or do need to go on and look elsewhere? Maybe you game time. That is different. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's a hard balance, right? Because you've got a short playing career, so you don't want to spend the whole time being like, yep, opportunity's going to come. And you could be kidding yourself in some scenarios, you know? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, yeah, 100%. But then I said, it's the straight off you take and you make to play at that higher level and compete at the league we're competing I for sure we both go down and play lower league rugby, a couple of leagues below and like you wouldn't have to about your at all. like I know where I'm at now definitely wouldn't fulfill me like so. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna say, you suck up for an eye. You do. Yeah, I Josh Hanlon: I'll suck it up for now. I'll go cry about it. I'll cry about it. I might do better crying about it, but I'll get over it. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think it's good to have someone to like, like, I don't think it's been, it has ever been helpful to like ball up and be like, no, it's fine. You know, my opportunity will come because that's not a natural response to you're not like you're on the two, your travel and reserve your bench. If you want a starting position, like that isn't a natural response to be like stoic about it. we're like, ⁓ I'll just keep the head down. I think the natural response is I really want to throw the toys out the prime here, but I'm going to grit my teeth for another week. and another week. I like before you know it, you've done about seven weeks of doing that. And yes, it does get more frustrating, but also the opportunity comes closer and closer. There's like a little graph that I wish I could pull up on the screen it's like a that shows loads of little bars. And then when you're about to quit or most people quit, then the bars start coming up, you know? And that's what happened to me. Like when you're closest to just giving up, then actually things start, start happening for you. So. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's also probably worth noting how important having the conversations with not only other teammates or other coaches, or even someone completely outside of the environment. For me, was to you or other mates who are playing different clubs or playing abroad, but chatting to coaches directly who pick the team and be like, this is where I'm at. ⁓ This some of best conversations I had this year with my coaches. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: just being honest and being like, that's where I'm at, I feel this and this is why I feel this. And like, was, I everything back to the game I started, that kind of was the start of the run of start I got. Like it was like two weeks before that, we had a really good conversation on the phone and yeah, was just, he was honest with me and I was honest with him and it was like, okay well. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: I like, I need a chance to need a shot and then you get your shot, you know, but sometimes like, you just bury it in the sand and just think you're the victim, like the of the day, coaches only can go the information they have and they're just at end of the day as well, they also need communicated with. Luke Pollock: Yeah, that's it. They're literally just like, just like me and you, but like five or 10 years down the line. I think we forget that. think you forget, like sometimes people think, ⁓ they should know how I'm feeling. But like, I wouldn't know how any of the boys are really feeling. I could guess, but like sometimes you think, ⁓ he seems happy enough there, know, at training or whatever. but yeah, so I remember I had one phone call with my coach. I was like at lunchtime at work. I was absolutely fuming. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah. Luke Pollock: few minutes here and I said to him like, I'm sorry, I'm so angry. just like care a lot about rugby and he was like, man, rugby is absolutely everything to me. So I completely get it. And even just hearing that like, he kind of understands like how much this is annoying me was very valuable to me. And like that bought me a few more weeks because I'm like, he gets I'm annoyed. He said, don't turn it will come. So yeah, I suppose it kind of just like Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah, it is scary as well at the time because you're like, don't want to look like I'm complaining or moaning. like feel like your first protocol there is make sure you're actually playing well and you're training well and you're doing the work. Take your opportunities when you do get them. And then if you feel like you still need to communicate where you're at, like just bite the bullet, because. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, if you're not... Josh Hanlon: You have to get it. But if you're not training well, might as well just not bother. ⁓ Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think this was, this was off the back of me actually training well and I got a man on the march for the two. So I was like, right. What, what else I need to do or whatever. But yeah, if you're not training well, don't go, don't listen to this and think, I'm just going to go sub to the coach here. Cause they'll lose respect for you to be like, who does this? Who's this loud thing is? But yeah, you needed it. ⁓ Josh Hanlon: Yeah, it's not even like one training session or like one weekend. You need to be training consistently well for a long period or a couple of weeks. for example, if you get a game on the tooth or you get time off the bench, you need to take it. Am I allowed to swear? Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, lad, you can you can use whatever language that you find is fitting for yourself. But yeah, express yourself. It's also different because you're at a hinge, right, where you grew up. So everyone's like, you should just be proud to be in the changing room, lad. But like, I'm obviously at a club where we've only got like one or two players who grew up at the club. So it's more like of a, you know, Josh Hanlon: Alright, so. I'm stressing myself. Luke Pollock: understand that you're brought into play. ⁓ I imagine back home it's more difficult, especially if you're playing for like your local team or in your team and like you're thinking, it's just difficult you've got that added expectation that you should be happy to just be in the room rather than like, no, I want to play. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And like, I even, I I started playing the ball of hench when I was like four. Which is mad, I said 20 years ago, but... Yeah, and I'll say I take a break away from school and I've been away a couple of times playing abroad, but... Ultimately, when I was growing up, all I wanted to do was play for the ball of hench, so at the minute, or sometimes whenever you do get into a rut and you... Where it would maybe be like... Luke Pollock: Yeah. ⁓ Josh Hanlon: For example, if I was over in England and I was at a club where you maybe don't have as much ties to, know, as loyal to maybe, like, be like, aw, just moving clubs, so I'm gonna go and look. But for me, it's not really an option for me. Like, if I'm playing rugby at home, like I'm playing for one inch, like, and that's just the way ⁓ it It's just the way it ⁓ Luke Pollock: Yeah, it's gonna be the way it is, boy. Gonna die for the badge. So Hinchman forever. ⁓ the other thing obviously has big change this for both of us is just like, business wise. And that's why we're, that's why we're good pals. Cause we have, yeah, we do pretty much the same job, just, different font per se. And yeah, also, also take a rugger pretty seriously. So Josh Hanlon: Hahaha Luke Pollock: Reflecting, I know it's a weird time to reflect back on the business because it's not during the rugby season, but yeah, how do you think that this last few months, I suppose, has been business-wise and for you? Josh Hanlon: Probably the last few months, like two or three have definitely been the best. Probably ever, but I think at the start of the year, obviously the start of the year or the start of every year and January is always the time everyone kind of sits down and like actually looking at their life and probably deeps everything too much. But for me, I was like... Luke Pollock: Yeah. Like, never you lad, never you. ⁓ Josh Hanlon: Never else. yeah, me, was just like, sort of looking back at the previous year and being like, how can I improve things? And yeah, just of decided wanted to strip everything back and sort of build from the ground up again in terms of systems and how I do things. So I definitely spent January, February. even in the March, they're just building sort of the back end of things making of putting a bit more structure and actual systems in place in terms of like onboarding or delivery or it might be, which I feel is actually put me in a really good place now. And hence there, the two or three months have been really good. Just cause I feel like everything runs a bit smoother now and I feel like the service I can deliver is just a whole lot better because I'm clear in what I'm doing and there's less clutter in my head because it's all with a sort of a bit of a structure around things. Yeah, I'm enjoying things. I love the off-season and I've learnt a new athletes on the last couple of weeks and hopefully will continue to get some more in the next. Couple of weeks as well, off season seems to be a time where an online pull trigger with their S &C set of things. So, things are good. Luke Pollock: Yeah. And what, like, what is the, you know, the way you say clatter in your head, what is that normally for you? Josh Hanlon: It's like, remembering, ⁓ all that like small admin tasks, know, like remembering to send an email, remembering to, like when you start working with a client, like manually all the onboarding, so you're having to send them multiple different things. And it's like, can you just like automate that so like it's all in one place? If you're your check-in system, like can you have... Can you make sure everyone knows exactly what they're doing on what day? And takes like, know the things are gonna happen in the background without you having to actually manually go and do them every day. ⁓ I know like, well everyone gets their check in form on whatever day and they get their monthly check in form. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: I think the call that they're going for calls like when I still work with the cloud, they onboarding looks smoother and I don't have to like sit and think about what I'm doing because they know exactly what they're getting. It's just all them small things that you probably like before, we're like taking up so much unnecessary time and capacity in my brain that knowledge for like a whole lot of things. Luke Pollock: Yeah, that's since I've gone full time on it. That's what I've noticed. Like you, I mean, to sum up, like you're not only providing the service, which most people's job, like they get paid to provide the service. So if I work for a big clinic or you work for a club, you just rock up the players already there. You provide the service, but when you do your own thing and no one tells you this at the time, but you do everything from like you're the Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: You're the complaints department. You're also trying to find the players like you're the market in yourself. You're actually then providing the service, which at the start kind of gets left to the wayside a little bit. And then you're like, actually, how can I make this a little bit better? Yeah. So, and day you wake up and think, right, well, what like a hat should I put on today? Am I going to like market this morning? I'm going to put out content. Do I need to find more people? Or do I need to make sure that my current clients are all right? And when you're constantly switching like hats, it gets really, really tiring. So I think it's just like a bit of advice you gave me as well. It's just like plan your day. Otherwise the day will just completely like escape you. Cause you'll just be switching from thing to thing, to thing, to thing all the time. Um, yeah. So that. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. I find as well, like, so ultimately, like our jobs, our main goal or objective we work with someone is to get them results and get them to where they want to get to. I feel like for us to do that ⁓ the best of our ability, like, and deliver the best service possible. Like, you have to make sure you're at top of all that other app inside of things. Mainly because it's just for me, it means I can think a lot clearer and I can, when I'm actually chatting to the clients and chatting to athletes, I can actually bring about energy and I feel like I have ideas, I feel more creative, but if you're constantly like bogged down, bouncing between different admin tasks as you said, or you're like... of all this like things to do in your head. It can be, it can take away from the main thing, which is ultimately coaching. then sometimes on the other side, you can get obsessed with the back ends and the systems and all that side of things. But ultimately, like your clients don't really care about that as well. just want your like this. ⁓ working with you because they want results. ⁓ like, yeah, it's finding the in terms of systems. Luke Pollock: Yeah, they want results, yeah. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: that gives you headspace and makes everything run smoothly but ultimately it's so that you're able to deliver a better shower rush really. Luke Pollock: Yeah. like in terms of, cause still, so like what we're talking about, I'm still in the middle of it right now. Like I still switch from task to task. ⁓ And think what I'm realizing is when do like the busy tasks, like the admin stuff, it feels good at the time. It's kind of like doom scrolling. Like it feels good at the time. And then after an hour you come away and you're like, but what have I actually done? today, you know, like what have I actually done? Like I've done loads of little things, but haven't. It just feels like you haven't moved the needle that much more forward if you know what I mean. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, and it can be easy to expose it, like it's part of running the business, about in scaling the business, it's like, it can be easy to like, just focus so much on that stuff because it like, you you stay busy and like it feels like you're like building something, but like ultimately, like as I said, it's about the clients and it's about, it's about your marketing, it's about your deliveries. You have to make sure that you don't just like. rooms of RAM and different tasks, which I've definitely been guilty for, especially in my brain, I just be all over the place. So like if I don't have a plan and like a set thing that I'm doing for sort of a period of work, like I'm just all over the place. so ⁓ definitely is something that one tells you whenever you do go self employed and you do work for yourself, like the other things, like all my mates think I don't do any work at all. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: I definitely, like no one tells you if you don't plan your days or you don't manage your time. You think like when you get, you probably find yourself and you went self employed, you were like, I'm gonna have all this time my hands. And then the day doesn't be quick going in like, know, the way about it, we fill it with things. And as we said, I know we were chatting on the phone earlier in the week and we were like, there's always something to be done. Like, you what I mean? Luke Pollock: Yeah. And it's complete mindset shift because you like when working in a job, you're like a half asked about it's like a win if you if you go away from the day not being that busy and you're not flogged. But like when you're not busy in our job, you feel like you're you're like a bit of a fraud. You're like, Oh, am I just doing nothing? Am I just unemployed and pretending to have a business? You know? Josh Hanlon: Yeah, 100%. It's completely different really. Sometimes you can just feel like, as I said, even working on the back end side of things, you just feel, that's probably why it can be, you can sort of get focused on it a bit too much because it makes you feel like you're busy and it makes you feel like you're actually doing stuff. But half the time, it could probably be, there's probably something more important you should be doing. Luke Pollock: Yeah, it's cool though. think, we often like forget and I spoke on one of like the solo episodes I did about like the gap and the gain. And it's so cool to have been chatting to you over the last two years really, or yeah, probably two years now coming on. Cause I remember we started like you were making probably like a grand a month and I was making like a hundred quid a month or something that. And, Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: Yeah, we're obviously a lot further on than both of our businesses from that, like two years later, but step of the way, ⁓ know, back then we would have just wanted to be here. I remember being like, mate, if I could make two or three grand a month, like I'd be happy, you know, but you never are. And you're always trying to figure out the next piece of the puzzle to solve. And as soon as you have a bigger month, then you're. Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: Yeah, then you're just trying to chase that month again, again, again, Josh Hanlon: Yeah, I think this week we've this out as well. When you have a really good month or your best month, the pressure isn't off as such. You just feel it more because you're like, I need to do this again next month or I need to hit this again next month. Yeah, so it's the same with everything though, even your rugby side of things, even gym and your training. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: like rehab as well, like everything. You're constantly chasing something and then as soon you get there it doesn't matter anyway because you just start to think about the next thing straight away. Luke Pollock: Although I would say, I would say on that there's always a definite end point. like a season you're like, okay, that was a good season or I think for business, maybe it's a year, but the goalposts always sort of moves, you know, like, it does for rugby to be fair, but, there's an end point I feel to those other things. but maybe not the gym as much, but yeah, for the business, you're kind of just like, how far does this go? Or when do I? Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: you know, where does it go? ⁓ Josh Hanlon: Yeah, it's every now and again better out though. sort of. Luke Pollock: Yeah, I think we are. think we are. like, he's still cool. I often said to you, like, you just, we got to remember, because we go through periods of being like, what are we doing? Or don't really know the best way forward or whatever. But like, we just literally created a job for ourselves. I know we're really. ⁓ Josh Hanlon: Yeah. Luke Pollock: which is pretty cool, but it does come with its own. And it's going to be some people listening to this being like, I wish I had those problems of like getting caught up in too many admin tasks. And to be fair, I'm happy those are my problems I'm dealing with and not like a problem of I hate my job and I don't see a way out. Like that's a tougher problem to deal with mentally rather than I don't really know what I today, you know. ⁓ Josh Hanlon: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Luke Pollock: Bye. Sure, we'll keep moving. And I do want to talk about the grip cushion thing you launched as well. That's pretty cool. Josh Hanlon: Um, yeah, um, so very much early stages for now, but I just find like, I've been in this for a couple of years now and the amount of messages or DMs I get from like young lads who are like 16, 17, 18, um, and probably really, really keen to progress and develop with their rugby. Um, but ultimately just aren't in a position to afford or commit to one-to-one. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, one-to-one coaching anyway. Luke Pollock: afford your expensive coaching pretty much is what you're set. Josh Hanlon: So yeah, before this, like my focus has always been the one the ones and very much still is, but it was a case of like, just didn't really have, I was always focused on getting my, the one the one side of thing to a place where I was sort of happy or had a certain metric, which I think just was about, I'm not happy, but like I'm obviously going to want to keep growing that side of things as well. yeah, it was more a case of, how can I facilitate for all the people. asking for help or before and maybe give them a program on PDF or send them the right direction in terms of try this, do this, but there no real set structure or place. yeah, launched the of youth coaching the day, last week, last Monday, think. Haven't actually advertised it much yet. the minute it was more. I definitely had people who heard DME before asking about coaching or maybe applying for one-to-one coaching and realized it wasn't going be for them. So yeah, we've got a few lads in it already. sort of the main goal with it is to create a bit of a not just a program, in the sense of not just a gym program and where you go work on, like a bit of more of a educational... side of things as well, especially like think about when lads are 16, 17, 18 is when they probably need the most support. I realised there was probably a massive gap in if you're not in an academy or if you're not in a sort of good rugby school where you have an FSC program and you have good coaches around you. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: there's probably a bit of a gap from there to like everyone, all the other players just kind of left their devices and a lot of them are totally like, need to get bigger, I need to get stronger, I need to get faster, but no one actually tells them how to do that or shows them how to do that. So yeah, the goal is really to sort of not only coach but educate alongside in terms of nutrition. Luke Pollock: Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Recovery, that side of things as well. try and make a bit of a community around it. We a group and try sort of promote a bit of conversation in there in terms of lads communicating with each other what they find works well or what they learned this week. Yeah, just so we can all sort of bounce off, they can all sort of bounce off each other and continue developing and learn. Luke Pollock: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's a very good idea. And it's also just an expansion of your business. So you're not having them rely on just one of the ones, which is very admin heavy. You can capture more people at a lower price point. Yeah. Josh Hanlon: Yeah, business side of things, it definitely, it makes sense. And it definitely something I've been thinking about for a while, but just been putting off and think this because of it's, I wanted to part of the side of athletes had make sure everything was done properly in terms of making sure get the right forms at all signed before athletes get. access to different programs and stuff. systems and all are in place as we've about, love systems now, big system now. So yeah, things are going well, only launched it week, but very much not priority for now, but yeah, to get stringed at. Luke Pollock: Set your system by... Yeah, string down to the bow. Well, I think we'll leave it there. Big dog, thanks very much for the chat again. until next time, where can people find you? Josh Hanlon: Holland jh on the score coaching it all Instagram Yeah, it's probably the best place you get everything on Luke Pollock: days, right? Cheers for coming on, McDonald's. Josh Hanlon: change that.