Latest / Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle / EP 10: Built in the Bike Business

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EP 10: Built in the Bike Business · Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle

• Brandon Morphew AI: Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, Marketing the Bicycle with Brandon Morphew and Chris Melman of MISO Partners. Brandon Morphew: Hello and welcome to Spokes and Strategy. Today's guest is Forrest Carver, co-owner and manager of Bath Cycle and Ski, BikeMan.com and Carver Bikes up in coastal Maine. And I've had the good fortune of ⁓ visiting Forrest at the shop more than a couple of times. It's a wonderful place if you ever get a chance. We've crossed paths over the years. I remember, I think being in the snow somewhere, riding fat bikes with you. ⁓ when back when I was a sales rep and I've had the good fortune of getting a chance to know you a little bit over the years. So thank you very much for being here. ⁓ Your shop is, ⁓ it's quite a place. It really is. And I highly recommend if anyone's in the area to stop by. The other thing that I'm loving right now is if people haven't already, they really should give a follow on Facebook because you've been doing this Tuesday series with old Forrest Carver: Thank you. Brandon Morphew: products that is hilarious. Like I'm half wanting to open up my wallet and make a purchase, half ⁓ buckled over laughing at both the inventory that you guys have and the products. They're just fantastic brand new stuff that's ⁓ gorgeous, know, and sort of played a role in cycling lore and a testament to the inventory that you guys have had over the years. think if there's something you need, BikeMan probably has it. Forrest Carver: for better or worse. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, and so, you know, without further ado, welcome, Forrest. It's great to have you. I'm very grateful for you, you know, taking the time out and being on Spokes and Strategy. So I'd love, I want to get into sort of who you are and what you do, but if you don't mind upfront, I'd love to hear what are you doing right now? Are you riding bikes in Maine in the winter? Forrest Carver: You know, it's actually not been a bad season for fat biking right now. It's been kind of touch and go. We've had a ton of snow, which people are like, oh, great. Fat biking is great then. Not necessarily. The kind of snow we've gotten has kind of precluded like, you know, a good solid riding season. Starting to get pretty good now. I've been out maybe two or three times, which is embarrassing to be honest, but you know, a lot going on. The shop's been, honestly, I would say historically busy, you know, maybe not. you with sales, just, you know, kind of catching up with, with all little, you know, you know, spreadsheets and website updates and all the really boring stuff that you're supposed to do during the winter. And it just kind of adds up and adds up and, know, all of a sudden that's it's busier in the winter than the summer. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, sometimes it does get that way. Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit. ⁓ There's some interesting things. ⁓ Trading for bike stuff is a pretty fantastic idea. So I'd love to hear if you've got any good stories around ⁓ the wackiest stuff that people have traded for bike stuff. And then I want to just hear about you. You grew up in this world. You're probably as much as anyone could. You grew up with kind bikes in your veins and here you are 50 years later after the shop opened ⁓ still running it and ⁓ still making it happen. So two questions there. Forrest Carver: Yeah, I kind of just fell into it. I mean, obviously I had to be here for a large part of my childhood because, you know, dad was here and, you know, he picked me up from school and bring me back here and I was just hanging out. I would like to say that I was ⁓ kind of a traditional grom minus the help because it was mostly just shooting rubber bands at people and bothering people, threatening to get them fired. My daddy's the boss, he can fire you, that kind of thing. ⁓ But no, did, I definitely did, you know, find a few things to do like assembled bikes at a pretty early age. ⁓ You know, counting ball bearings, that kind of ⁓ menial labor. I definitely remember one job that I always had was to sort the invoices alphabetically. And so, you know, when the, we're talking like 1992 when, you know, QBP and BTI were first starting out, you know, I'd see those invoices and, know, kind of see. Of course, I didn't really understand what inventory we were bringing in, it was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Pretending that I was like a little businessman. And I'm pretty sure that I'd get these things all fully alphabetically organized. And then as soon as I wasn't looking, my dad would probably just dump them in the garbage can. But it kept me busy for half an hour. But yeah, just kind of kept coming to the shop. Eventually took a little bit more of roll. I think it was probably around 2011 or so when I really... went full time and was like, okay, I'm going to make a, make a go of this. You know, this will be my career. Um, you know, it really works well for the kind of person I am because, know, sometimes I can do something for three minutes. Sometimes I can sit down and do it for two hours. It all depends on the, on the time. And so there's always something to do. You know, if I'm tired of, um, doing spreadsheets, I can go clean a toilet, which is fun sometimes actually, cause it's either done or it's not, you know, there's no, uh, there's no quality level with that, you know. And then obviously lots of customer service. You can do the emails this time and then sweep the floors, build bikes, ⁓ organize stuff. There's just so much to do. And, you know, I can always do what I feel like doing at that time. So it works well. And then I took an ownership role probably about five years ago with a couple other guys here in the shop. So there's really four owners at this point. And that's been... really helpful for all of us because we've really got some skin in the game and making bigger decisions as we go. The whole while, Davis has been stepping back and back as he should because he's in 70s now. He's about time to retire. So yeah, it's been definitely a fun job and coming into my own as an owner. Brandon Morphew: What was the moment? Was there a moment when you decided like, I'm gonna make this, you cause you're there, you grow up in the shop, you basically it's your default childcare for a big chunk of your younger life. And then you're working there, you know, probably doing a lot of like what, you know, folks do as a part-time role, you know, maybe a little bit more involved cause it's a family business. Forrest Carver: Thanks Brandon Morphew: When did you, like 2011, what was it that you kind of stopped and said, I think I might make a go of this professionally? What was the shift for you? Forrest Carver: Well, I had been working as a wildland firefighter out in Colorado. And ⁓ I had, know, at the end of my second season, I was like, okay, you know, this could be my, this could definitely be my thing. ⁓ You know, was considering that being my career. But at the time it was seasonal. And so I would come home for the winter and I would, you know, work at the bike shop and then, and then go back out to Colorado. Well, that winter of 2011, I, I'm not exactly sure. I think it must've just been really, really busy. And, you know, we kind of, were at this, ⁓ pivotal moment where it's like, we could, you know, we could really become successful here. You know, we were getting, you know, hundreds of orders a day occasionally. and, ⁓ you know, with the Carver thing was really starting to take off. ⁓ I was doing a lot of the, the Carver customer service, ⁓ complete builds and they just, you know, the inquiries just kept rolling in and in and in. it was like, wow, this is. I started thinking about what would happen, you know, that summer when I went away and it was like, geez, we're really. I'm kind of needed here. feels nice, but also kind of strange. And so I, you know, didn't take long to finally make that decision. Like, okay, you I'm gonna stick around, you know, and see where we can go. And it's been really awesome ever since, honestly. Brandon Morphew: It's a good segue. So ⁓ you're a local shop, you have this kind of national, international presence, e-commerce wise, and then you've got a bike brand. you're these three different, can you like explain it to me? Like it's my first day on the job and you're trying to walk me through ⁓ what I'm going to be doing now that I got a job at the bike shop. Forrest Carver: Sure. I mean, the first priority to me always is the people that walk through the door. It doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of selling somebody a $13,000 custom titanium bike. If an old lady comes in and needs a tube for her hybrid, she is the only thing in my mind. And so, you know, if she's standing around and looking for help, then I'll be like, I'm going to call you back. So that's always number one. The community is key. Again, for better or worse, because, you know, sometimes I can spend a whole day selling a $250 hybrid. And then they're like, well, good things to think about. I'm gonna go talk to the wife. And the day is wasted, but that's just part of the game. So, Bat Cycle is obviously number one and all the inventory of the bikes and stocking the shelves, they're really basic stuff. And then we go up a level to bikeman.com. obviously that's, it's bigger stakes. But it's not necessarily, you know, more, I still think that's about ⁓ another third of the business. know, that cycle and ski is one third, bike man's one third ⁓ and Carver bikes is one third. And, ⁓ you know, with bike man, that's, again, kind of a higher level where we're talking about more niche stuff here. We, kind of, ⁓ we focus in certain things. We go where the, our database manager, Al likes to say, go where the food is. So, you know, whether we like something or not, if, you know, if that's what's selling at the time, then that's, you know, the niche that we're going to get into. ⁓ So, you know, we deal a lot with ⁓ pinion, for instance, internal gear hubs, ⁓ gates, carbon drive. ⁓ We've done some e-bike stuff because a lot of people don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. ⁓ So, you know, we're always kind of trying to find the next thing for bike man. ⁓ And then there's carver bikes too. What's up? Brandon Morphew: Do have a 32, do do you have a 32 inch wheel bike yet? Forrest Carver: We have a third two inch bike wheel in the stand right now. That's actually the project we're working on right now. ⁓ Yeah, we got those, we got those 32 inch ⁓ Aspen tires from Maxxis. That was really the last piece of the puzzle. Cause like, you know, the rims were out there, but you gotta have a good tire to have a good bike. Everybody knows it. You know, that's the, that's the meat of the bike. So yeah, once Maxxis came out, it's like, okay, now it's a legit thing. but yeah, so that. Brandon Morphew: Thanks. Fantastic. Awesome. Absolutely. Forrest Carver: good segue to Carver. You know, that's really the similar situation. You know, we're always kind of trying to find the next thing, you know, with with fat bikes. When they were in their infancy, you know, we were really like ahead of the game on that and ⁓ made a great run of it. Yeah. And then gravel bikes, same thing. And now I don't do much of it, but Davis has gotten really into recumbents lately, long wheelbase recumbents. And so that's just another, you know, another segment of the market that, you know, I don't think myself included. Brandon Morphew: You really were, I remember. Forrest Carver: I don't think we realized like how big of a deal that is. mean, there's a, there's a really big market for recumbents, big, comfortable recumbents. ⁓ so yeah, I mean, we're always, always trying to find new stuff. Components, same thing. You know, it's like, what's out there. Okay. That nobody needs another aluminum handlebar with, you know, 20 mil rise and nine degree backs with everybody's doing that. We got to find something, you know, crazy and special. Like, you know, I'm actually in the room right now where, you know, where a lot of our components are. If I could find one, I'd pull it up. But we've got this new titanium riser handlebar, a lot like the Surly Sunrise bar, but in titanium. And that's then probably like our hottest new product. know, we actually, funny story. So we meant to have a seven degree upsweet. And the sample that we got was a seven degree upsweet. But then when we got our order of a hundred, they had no upsweet. And so, you know, we, it was, this happens quite a bit, you know, dealing with overseas. Uh, we just kind of rolled with it and it's like, okay, well, this is what we wanted. This is what we got. We're just going to go with it. And so we had all these people, oh yeah, well, I really wanted the seven degree. And so we just kind of trickled through. Obviously we got the seven degree version on the way and those arrived and they started selling. And then, uh, we finally sold out of the zero degree and we're just exclusively selling the sevens. Well, all of sudden everybody's asking for that zero. Brandon Morphew: too. Forrest Carver: They're like, hey, I accidentally ordered a zero because I wanted seven, but I like that better. Can I get this year? So now we go back to the manufacturer like, Hey, remember those bars you accidentally made? We'll take another hundred of those. So it's funny how these little happy accidents actually turn into a, you know, a happy ending. Brandon Morphew: it happy accidents. Bob Ross what a legacy that guy has. So speaking of odd and old, what's like the weirdest thing that you have that you think is still viable, like still sellable? What would you say is like the thing that you scratch your head about like we still sell that like that's wild. Forrest Carver: Yeah. That is a terrific question. And I'm gonna wake up multiple times in the middle of the night saying, ⁓ I should have said this. ⁓ I should have said this. But ⁓ boy. I mean, I guess we've still got some height rights. I almost wonder if that might be like, you know, the most Brandon Morphew: Can you explain what a height rate is? Forrest Carver: ⁓ a height right is basically like a proto dropper post. was like a, ⁓ basically just a spring. So rather than, you obviously you couldn't do it remotely, but if you flipped the quick release lever on your, you know, on your seat post, you could sit down and, and, you know, would load the spring. And then when you pull the, you know, the QR again, it would pop right back up to where it was supposed to be. Now I never used this. It may have been extremely problematic. I can see a lot of reasons why it would be really problematic. But the idea is sound. And the simplicity is, if you've had a dropper post before, they can be finicky up until recently when they've kind of figured it out. But I could see in the early days of dropper posts when nothing really worked, people being like, you know what? Going to go back to that height, right? But yeah, there's certain tires that still hold up from back in the day, certain tread patterns that really work. ⁓ Brandon Morphew: Nice. I like that. Forrest Carver: It's funny, I've seen this kind of trend to go back to super high pressures on road tires and narrow road tires. We were going wider for a while and now some people are like, you know what? Frig it, we're going back to a 23 at 120 PSI. I wanna go fast. I don't care if it's comfortable. Brandon Morphew: ⁓ yeah. That is wild. ⁓ Anything, you know, just thinking about anything that you wish you could get still. Forrest Carver: Wish we could still get. Boy, Again, ⁓ I'll think of so many things in about half an hour, the moment we get off this, but there was a certain seat post made by Raceface, certain seat post design that was just so nice and elegant. It was two bolts, ⁓ know, one bolt tightened the rails and one bolt adjusted the tilt. And it just, yeah, I mean, it was so, it was perfect. Everything about it was great. And then all of sudden, you know, that we, We'd sell them hand over fist. And then all of sudden the next version just didn't have that. I, you know, I asked them about it and they gave kind of a cagey answer. And eventually I kept squawking and squawking like, Hey, you got to get, you know, what about this design? Bring this thing back. And finally they like, you know, connected me with the person that, had licensed to the design. And honestly, I don't remember the details, but I think he, you know, maybe he wanted to. License it for like a higher price than anybody was willing to do. And I was like, Oh, we'll do that. And then I think I saw the number and I was like, Never mind, it was good, but it wasn't that good. So... Yeah. Brandon Morphew: That's why it's not mad anymore. ⁓ Well, that's interesting. You mentioned something when we send out a little questionnaire ahead of time and you mentioned ⁓ you sort of like talked about pricing and how like the lowest price that like goes on sale ends up kind of inherently becoming the new like everyday price. And I just wonder like, where did you get that idea from? Is it like an observation or is it something that came to you from? some other place, person, business. Forrest Carver: mean, that's my personal philosophy because I'm very cheap and thrifty. The thrifty part is good. The cheap part is maybe not so good. But I like to think of myself as a pretty smart shopper. And so I'm not just going to click the first thing. I'm going to check the price history. I'm going to do my homework. ⁓ just the idea of something being on a certain price and then the exact same product going up in price after that, it's not right to me. ⁓ And so I will wait, I'll wait until I'm dead for that same price that I saw that one time. I don't know if you've heard of camel, camel, camel, but it's this website that will track prices. And, ⁓ and it shows you like a chart of, know, how high and low they've been. And so a lot of times I've been like, okay, so it bottomed out at like $26 and 34 cents. So like, that's the target. And so, know, every once in while I'll look and then finally it's like, we're, we're at an all time low. So that's when, that's when I get it. ⁓ Brandon Morphew: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Forrest Carver: And I feel like that's happened a lot, especially in the past couple of years with bikes. know, everything's going on sale and you know, somebody will walk in and they'll, they'll, they'll look at this bike and you know, it's priced at say 1599, which means we spent maybe a thousand dollars on it. And they're like, well, this bike is $900 online. I'm like, oh crap. Well, that's terrible. I guess I got to sell it to you for $900. And I, you know, not, nobody hates losing money on something more than I do, but like that guy did his homework. And that's the value of that product. And so the sooner I can just sell it, get it over with and forget all about it, because it's going to keep me up at night, the better because he's happy. didn't, you know, he came to us, maybe we lost some money on it, but he got what he wanted. We've lost that, that, you know, landmine, so to speak, you know, we were, we were going to lose money on it no matter what, probably. So we got it out of there and then, and hopefully it's a lesson learned. And there's certain brands where, you know, this just became this pattern where you can't buy anything at regular price because it's going to go on sale and then it's going to go on further sale. And eventually it's going to sell for less than you bought it for. It's just, it's a fact of life now. And so there's certain brands where it's like, okay, there's the sweet spot where when they've got it for sale for 60 % off or more, that's when we buy it. And that then we're protected, you know, sometimes it goes the other way and the, you know, the price keeps going up and up. And then we actually make decent margin to make up for all those losses before. But ⁓ it's just this risk that we can't take anymore. We just got burned too many times. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. It's a really interesting, you know, kind of confluence of, ⁓ model year cycles. So you've got new product every year. Everything's new, new colors, you know, it's been consistently. And then you've got this e-commerce component, which is definitely driven by price, you know, like the shopping, you know, there's, think prices and everything, you know, I think there's a lot of, you know, marketing, one of the things, you know, brand, you know, brand value. think you get. Forrest Carver: But it's not that. Thank you. Brandon Morphew: There's definitely a premium on some products and there's a good reason for it sometimes, sometimes there's not. But this is an interesting time where, whether it's price matching, like you said, you don't mind price matching. I think that's a really strong strategy in general. And also I think there is, you need to make money too. It's a business. making sure that you're making money. guess, how do you... Forrest Carver: Thanks for watching. Brandon Morphew: Do you have the same policies across all of your, obviously Carver's a little different because that's your product, you maintain price, you're responsible for any, you don't have, I don't think you have resellers, you on that brand? Forrest Carver: That's that's that's that's that's ⁓ not to speak of. We did have a pretty good dealer network in the early days, but I think, you know, we were always going direct. And I think once everybody else started going direct as well, or for the most part, I think our dealer network was like, okay, well, you know, this was, it's a first in first out kind of thing. I mean, like our margins were never very good for them anyway. So I think they realized like, okay, yeah, just go direct. We still hook people up for sure. ⁓ You know, we just do kind of a flat 15 % off discount to any shop. ⁓ which yeah, for shops or industry people or whatever. And so yeah, there's not much money in it for them, but it's better than a sharp stick in the eye. Brandon Morphew: for a shop if they're gonna... ⁓ Well, if someone's looking, right, and they're willing to buy it from you, then why not? know, if they've made their mind up. Yeah, that makes sense. So I guess I'm thinking, you know, there's these really interesting factors that are happening. know, there's oversupply in certain spaces, undersupply in others. I think this year is going to be really challenging. ⁓ Are you, you know, just planning this year, thinking about where we're headed? Do you have the same strategy across all of your, between the e-commerce and the in-store? you do the same, I know there's obviously some brands have a map policy, which you're adhering to, but in general, how are you thinking about this, specifically this price matching and sort of lowest every day? What's your strategy, or is it just that? That's just, what's your plan for? you the spring and the summer and how do you manage that with all this other stuff that's got this uncertainty, I'll call it. I think, you know, like this is a challenge for a lot of retailers is this, you know, uncertainty that's out there that, you know, tariffs over supply, maybe under supply, you know, so I'm just, how are you thinking about this? Forrest Carver: Thank Well, plan has been, it's funny, the plan hasn't changed despite all the craziness that's happened over the past six years or so. The plan hasn't really changed in 10 years. We've just constantly wanted to have less inventory, carry less inventory. ⁓ Sometimes it works out, with tubes, sure. Yeah, so can never have enough tubes, but for the most part, it's just, it's not a winning proposition to carry this inventory ⁓ on the whole. Again, there's little cases where it works out great, but for the most part. We just want to buy less and especially with bikes, you know, we're just constantly trying to have a year where we're just not buying bikes. And it's, it's tough because, you know, we're just recently, brought in probably another 40 or 50 bikes because, know, X brand was, was at the lowest prices we'd ever seen before. And this brand's going out of business and this one, you know, it's a brand new brand. don't need another brand, but I mean, we're talking about a full carbon GRX gravel bike for $1,200 wholesale. Like, what are you gonna do? Say no? So, yeah, we keep, you know, shooting ourselves in the foot and well, sometimes, because occasionally, you know, it's, I've never seen prices this low. And then so we get 20 bikes and then three months later, either the company's out of business or, you know, they've got even deeper discounts than that. obviously you never, you don't have a crystal ball. ⁓ You got to do the best you can. The fact of the matter is we're just, unless we're, our feet are to the fire and we have got to do a pre-season order for brand new bikes, we're just not going to do it. It's waiting for the closeouts. We used to be the closeout Kings in the late nineties and early two thousands. And that, you know, that's been our roots and that's what we're going to try to keep going for. Brandon Morphew: So ⁓ I'm talking to a brand new shop owner. They're thinking about e-commerce. ⁓ What advice would you give somebody who's not in it right now, not really, you know, maybe they have their stuff on ⁓ Google Merchant Center, you know, they're available on shopping, they really haven't dipped their toe in. ⁓ What would you recommend to someone who's kind of just thinking about getting into e-commerce? What would you recommend to someone who's kind of just about getting into e-commerce? Forrest Carver: I mean, be different is the only advice I can come up with. mean, you've got to find what challenges the customers are facing. What are they not able to get? I mean, be different is the only advice I can come up with. mean, you've got to find what challenges the customers are facing. What are they not able to get? I mean, ⁓ there's no reason to go into e-commerce and sell XTR derailers. mean, ⁓ pond is out. You've got to find the new stuff, the different stuff, the stuff that's harder find. ⁓ One good strategy I find is when a Look for companies that did distribute through a major distributor, QPP, BTI, J &B, Holley, something like that, and stopped. Because all of a sudden they're hungry because they've lost this big sales channel. The name is already out there. mean, people have known about them because all these shops have been seeing them in the little brand list. But now all of a sudden, customers are not easily able to get it unless they go direct, which sometimes they do, sometimes they can't. whatever reason. ⁓ yeah, mean, finding those brands and, you know, buddying up with them, that seems to be a pretty good strategy for the most part. ⁓ You know, fill that void that the distributor had filled. Brandon Morphew: Nice, I like that, it's good advice. ⁓ Correct me if I got the name wrong, but Take Me Home Tuesday. What's the origin story behind that? Forrest Carver: ⁓ I don't know. It just, it just happened one day. So we, we did not have a social media presence for years and years and years. ⁓ honestly, I think. might have been a decade of virtually nothing. ⁓ And so one day I was like, I think somebody said, you guys don't do any marketing at all. like, ⁓ yeah, no. And I'm thinking of like ads and magazines and that kind of thing. And they were like, well, no, mean, like also social media. And I was thinking, yeah, I guess we don't. And so ⁓ it was not really a grassroots thing. think that we, well, I'm really the only one that does it. So I just said, okay, well, I can commit to two posts a week. ⁓ And so I feel like we should have one kind of like special thing that is like a recurring deal. And then one day we'll just do kind of like a wild card where it's just like you maybe something something funny about the shop because everything about this place is funny and weird and entertaining. But yeah, I started looking around and it was like, there's so many products here that people walk in and they're like, why the hell do you have this? And they're, you know, they're just like laughing at us about it. We're laughing at ourselves too. You know, laugh when the world laughs with you. ⁓ but yeah, I just started, I think the first day it was like, take me home Tuesday. That sounds good. And I don't remember exactly what the first product was, but it really took off. loved it. I think it was actually, ⁓ it was a weird old, it was a new old stock bike from, think like 2003 or something. I mean, it's literally been on the sales floor for 23 years. Test ridden probably 40 times and just nobody took the damn thing home. ⁓ So, you know, we were trying to give it this last little oomph to get it sold. And then, you know, we moved on to parts and, and, you know, other random stuff, but it's funny, you know, every Tuesday I'm like, ⁓ we got to make that take me home Tuesday. And I'm all like stressed about it, but really you don't have to look far here. I mean, it takes about five minutes. You're like, ⁓ yeah, there we go. Right there. Brandon Morphew: How do you pick the problem? Is it that easy? just randomly... Forrest Carver: It is really that easy. It's basically go into a room and look around for a minute and then just pull something off the shelf and then, you got to check it out honestly, because there have been some really weird brand new and that's the other thing. Almost all this stuff is like brand new in package and has been for 30, sometimes four years. Brandon Morphew: brand new stock. Yeah. I actually really enjoy it. Right out of the gate. I was like, this is a good idea. This is a really good idea. I really enjoy it. It's good. you could you have such a good, like, ⁓ you know, inventory of stuff that's, that's interesting. I mean, you really do. And you always have I think, you know, it's, it's, ⁓ it's an interesting thing. ⁓ Switching gears a little bit, is there something going on? You know, you we talked about Carver and sort of like how your you're keeping track of trends and sort of like that's one of the tools you use, Carver Bikes, for doing things that are interesting, whether that's fat bikes, 15 plus years ago, or probably 20 years ago now, almost that long ago, then what gravel bikes and 32 inch mountain bikes now and 32 inch gravel, I'm sure. Is there a trend that's going right now that you either, that you think is really interesting or that maybe you think is like way overblown. Forrest Carver: now I have not really noticed a whole lot of new stuff lately. We're always looking for it. I think probably the, you know, other than 32 inch, which you mentioned, ⁓ I don't know if you've seen Surly's Moonlander 2.0, ⁓ but that is a, ⁓ it's a pinion gearbox bike, ⁓ that uses a 24 by six inch tire. So it's kind of the next, next generation of, of that bike. ⁓ And those who have ridden fat bikes know that the difference between a four and a five inch fat tire sometimes is life or death. You know, it's either you can ride or you can't ride. And so, you know, you can, you can expect that between five and six, there's a, there's a similar jump in, in, know, what's rideable. But ⁓ yeah, so that came out and oddly enough, we, we, haven't sold a single one. It's really strange. And I think that it may just be because. ⁓ Brandon Morphew: everything. Forrest Carver: the geometry of the bike is a little odd. ⁓ But anyway, the first thing we did was start with make a titanium version. And we tweaked it a little bit so the wheel base isn't so long. ⁓ We've made it an elevated chainstay design ⁓ for crank clearance because it uses like a special ⁓ crank arm for the pinion system. And then also that elevated chainstay allows you to run the belt drive, which the Moonliner doesn't have. So this is one of those things where we made one, I think, once the word gets out there, there's going to be a lot of people who are like, I don't even, I don't care. want that. You know, I've, I've got 17 bikes. I don't have a super duper fat bike. I have a fat bike and a really fat bike, but now I need a super duper fat cause that's the new platform. So, ⁓ Brandon Morphew: Dex level. Yeah, I like it. I bet I bet it's a lot of fun to So as far as. ⁓ bike community. you I think you're in an interesting place. You know, I think relatively speaking, rural, think that's, you know, you're in not like rural, rural Maine, but you're in a more rural area. Um, I want to be, I want to be respectful to all parties here. Uh, so I, I'm a big fan of rural Maine, rural America. I mean, I've, I've had the good fortune of being everywhere in this country. And I've, you know, wherever I go, find. Forrest Carver: I'd call it rural, No, that's a compliment. Brandon Morphew: people are wonderful. Like that's been my experience is that people are just good all around. Like there are exceptions, but overwhelmingly people are good. that is the, know, whether it's, you know, Natchez, Mississippi or ⁓ Bend, Oregon or, ⁓ yeah, the beautiful coast of Maine, central Maine. Are we central? Not quite central, I don't think, right? Where would you, where would you? Forrest Carver: You know, I still don't know. Some people call it southern, some people call it down east. I call it mid-coast. Brandon Morphew: Mid-coast. like mid-coast. What does bike community look like to you where you are? Forrest Carver: It's changed for sure. I mean, we've got our NEMBA chapter and that seems to me to be like kind of the nucleus of at least mountain biking. ⁓ know, the trail days and the organized rides. ⁓ But you know, as a shop owner, it's really, I think it's mostly just like the people that come in every other day. Excuse me. Not always to buy something, but just to hang out. You know, we've got, mean, I was gonna say dozens, but. There'll be hundreds of people that, you know, come in at least once a month just to, you know, hang out, say hi, that kind of thing. They just like it here. A lot of people call it church. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, I feel the same way often. ⁓ What's one thing that you're proud of that would never show up on a P &L or on the revenue side of the business? What's one thing that you feel good about? Forrest Carver: Well... Everybody really likes working here. Everybody's full time. We don't have any part time employment. We try to treat people pretty well. You can't make a lot of money in this business as you know, but we do everything we can to make it a ⁓ good work environment. have tons of fun. There's a lot of flexibility. If somebody wants to take a day off to go skiing, it's not a big deal. ⁓ I take tons of time off, probably more than everybody here. so we're very informal. We're not corporate at all. We're very honest with people. don't have, you know, we don't do the sales pitch. ⁓ never do the hard sell. ⁓ You know, that ⁓ find a lot of customers are like really shocked when I tell them like, okay, well go home and think about it. And they're like kind of expecting me to like, they want me to push them into it, but it's like, no, it's just not, it's not how we do it, man. And then oftentimes I'm like, yeah, yeah, think about it. It'll be here when you get back. We've got seven of these. I'm like, ⁓ you're supposed to say this is the last one and seven people are calling about it. No, we got plenty of them. Like if you come back in three weeks, it'll be here. Like don't sweat it. Don't worry about it. ⁓ So yeah, I'm really proud of that. That's ⁓ because it's not always a winning strategy it seems like, but we can sleep at night. Brandon Morphew: It's in there so much value in that having a good night's sleep is so important. And you know, it comes through, it always has actually, you know, whether it was your dad or you, anytime I have had the good fortune of coming by, I've been really impressed with ⁓ the way you guys operate. You know, it's pretty clear you're in it for the right reasons. And so I'm grateful that you're here and where you are and for your time. I really appreciate it. Where can people... Find you, know BikeMan.com. Where else can people find you? How can they get to the shop? Forrest Carver: Um, physically? We're on route one. But, um, no, yeah, mean, but, uh, yeah, route one in Woolwich, actually, that's funny story. People are always like, wait, what's the bath part? You guys also sell baths? No, we used to be in bath across the bridge, but we moved to this location in Woolwich in 84. This is a, this is actually like a 19th century farmhouse, tavern, crazy, weird building with six shipping containers. I don't even know the square footage, but. Brandon Morphew: Well, yeah, in bath, right? Woolwich. Tell me more. Cut it. Forrest Carver: You really can't miss it. ⁓ but yeah, we're right over the bridge from bath into Woolwich on the right. ⁓ yep, bike man.com is the website. ⁓ check us out on Facebook for sure. If only to scroll back through the, ⁓ through the year or two of taking home Tuesdays we've done. ⁓ but yeah, really, I mean, Call us too. mean, if you're not, if you're not from here, we, we'll all answer the phone. ⁓ where you're willing to go to great lengths to find you what you need. mean, Whether it's here in this building, which it probably is, or whether, you know, there's just some, you know, backwater distributor. That's the only one that carries it. We really, we, we have fun, you know, hunting for, for, you know, the product that you need. ⁓ so yeah, call us, but really nothing beats the experience of coming here and giving, you know, your, your self-guided tour through the, through the halls of this place. Cause it really is, you know, part museum, part shop. It's not a store. It's a shop. But don't expect any level of cleanliness. Brandon Morphew: Any. It's a fine show. ⁓ Anything coming up this year that you're excited about that you want to share? Like a big bike ride, going on any adventures, anything? I know you dabble in politics, local politics a little bit. Anything that you want to share that you're excited about rolling into 2026? Forrest Carver: Well, there's been really good things happening with the local NEMBA chapter. mentioned Six Rivers NEMBA. lot of new partnerships going on. Actually, they are reaching out to my hometown that I live, Edgecombe. And so I can see, probably not in the very short term, but I'm seeing a pretty big push for trail network in Edgecombe. There's already a pretty big preserve there called the Schmid Preserve that has, I don't know, probably... I would say maybe 15, 20 miles of trail, but there's potential for at least double that. And there's plenty of grant money for it. There's a lot of interest with the local land trusts. So again, probably not this year, but I'm seeing some really good things coming up, ⁓ which is great because that area, know, Bath has terrific trails, a really nice trail network. But, ⁓ you know, once you start going north, it's not until probably Camden where you really see like a ⁓ good big, you know, dedicated trail network for mountain bikes. So it'll be nice to see something kind of in between those two spots. But yeah, keep your eyes out for that. Brandon Morphew: I know there's been, I will, I will. There's been some great trail building in Maine in general over the last decade. so it's ⁓ amazing riding across the state. It's highly recommend an adventure to Maine and Bath is one of those places I would definitely recommend. So, well, thank you so much for your time. It's been great to get a chance to chat. It's been a while and hopefully next time I see you, we'll be on the bikes together. So thank you so much. Forrest Carver: Yeah, thanks for inviting me on. It's been an honor. Brandon Morphew: Thanks, Boris. Have a great day. Take care. Thanks. See ya. Forrest Carver: You too. See ya.