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Financial Confidence for Our First Nations Community with Leah Bennett · She's On The Money

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Speaker 1: My name's Aatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations woman
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Speaker 1: and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya Niana,
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Speaker 1: kaka ya Ya bin Ahaka Nian Our gay In Nimbina,
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Speaker 1: yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Domagaowakaman, damon Imlan Bomber bang gadaboma In
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Speaker 1: and now in wakah ghana on yak rum jar Watnadaa. Hello,
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Speaker 1: beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
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Speaker 1: We thank acknowledge and respect the Abiginal people's land that
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Speaker 1: we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
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Speaker 1: and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
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Speaker 1: podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
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Speaker 1: knowledge and resources for.
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Speaker 2: You to thrive. She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
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Speaker 3: that is here to help finance seem a lot more doable.
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Speaker 3: I'm Victoria Devine and this very special bonus episode is
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Speaker 3: just for our First Nations community and friends. We're going
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Speaker 3: to be talking about the extra barriers you often come
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Speaker 3: up against when it comes to money and most importantly,
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Speaker 3: the practical steps you can take now to feel more
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Speaker 3: in control and set yourself up for the future. And
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Speaker 3: to help with this episode, I am joined by an
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Speaker 3: incredible guest, Leah Bennett from the First Nation's Foundation. Leah
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Speaker 3: is a proud Waraderie woman with over fourteen years experience
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Speaker 3: across superannuation, financial services, and governance, and now Leah heads
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Speaker 3: up the First Nation's Foundation, who do amazing work helping
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Speaker 3: First Nations people feel confident with their money and navigate
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Speaker 3: the unique challenges that they face. Leah, thank you so
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Speaker 3: much for joining us and making time to come on
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Speaker 3: the show.
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Speaker 2: Oh thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
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Speaker 3: I am actually really excited about this because I know
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Speaker 3: that a fair few people in my community have been
2:08
Speaker 3: like I want more content like this, and I'm like, say,
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Speaker 3: less queens, sit down, I'm going to go get Leah.
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Speaker 3: She's going to help us here. So let's just dive in.
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Speaker 3: I want to start by asking you to tell me
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Speaker 3: in your own words about the First Nation's Foundation and
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Speaker 3: the work that they do.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So fnf's actually been around for twenty
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Speaker 2: five years. We actually started as a credit union in
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Speaker 2: Shepard and many many years ago. So we celebrated our
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Speaker 2: twenty twenty fifth year last October, which is incredible. And
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Speaker 2: so over the years, FNF has evolved into what it
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Speaker 2: is today, which is an organization that specializes in financial literacy.
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Speaker 2: Its content is created by a mob for mob and
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Speaker 2: so culture is essentially at the core of everything that
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Speaker 2: we do. We have a number of programs, everything from
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Speaker 2: our Financial Fitness which helps mom go through the basics
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Speaker 2: of budgeting. We have our Women's program, which is one
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Speaker 2: of our most important programs because about eighty seven percent
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Speaker 2: of our participants are actually women anyway, so we were like, well,
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Speaker 2: it makes sense that we would do a women's program,
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Speaker 2: which is everything from our own podcast, YouTube channel, we
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Speaker 2: run women's workshops. We also have a new youth program
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Speaker 2: that we're about to roll out for kids between the
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Speaker 2: ages of fifteen to twenty five because for us, we
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Speaker 2: understand that getting in early with financial literacy as kids
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Speaker 2: are leaving school and entering the workforce is so essential.
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Speaker 2: And so I'm so incredibly excited about that youth program
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Speaker 2: as well.
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Speaker 3: I'm excited about that on your behalf like that just
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Speaker 3: you're right, that's where we need to get them, like
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Speaker 3: we need to get you while you're young and set
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Speaker 3: you up properly for the future.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like I was just in Parliament, the Parliamentary
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Speaker 2: Sittings a few weeks ago, talking about the need to
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Speaker 2: update the curriculum school right because it hasn't been reviewed
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Speaker 2: in a really long time. And financial literacy is such
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Speaker 2: an essential life skill for everybody. Financial literacy levels they're
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Speaker 2: at an all time low in general, So it's not
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Speaker 2: just to issue that First Nations people are facing, but
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Speaker 2: it's a national crisis, I would say, so, yeah, being
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Speaker 2: able to get them while they're young and set up
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Speaker 2: those healthy kind of you know, even for mom too,
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Speaker 2: like healthy boundaries. Yeah. First Nations Foundation also does a
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Speaker 2: lot of advocacy stuff, so advocating for mobs, so understanding
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Speaker 2: what mob needs, and I think most importantly to understand
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Speaker 2: that every First Nations person's at a different place in
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Speaker 2: their own financial literacy journey, and so we try not
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Speaker 2: to come from a deficet lens. We really try to
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Speaker 2: empower our First Nations people to take control of their
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Speaker 2: financial literacy journey and we walk beside them while we
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Speaker 2: do that.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that, and I'm going to make sure
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Speaker 3: that I get all of this into the show notes,
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Speaker 3: so people don't need to take notes or like try
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Speaker 3: and remember what you said, because we haven't even gotten
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Speaker 3: into the crux of the conversation. But I'm pretty sure
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Speaker 3: a few years might have pricked up when they're like, oh,
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Speaker 3: what's the financial fitness course? Or you know, what's this
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Speaker 3: women's program? So all of the info will be in
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Speaker 3: our show notes. You don't have to like stop and
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Speaker 3: write notes in She's on the Money, I would say
5:17
Speaker 3: one of the most powerful things we do is share
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Speaker 3: our money stories on the show. And for First Nations
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Speaker 3: women particularly, how do history and culture shape the way
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Speaker 3: that you guys relate to money and to services and
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Speaker 3: what are the first steps to rebuild trust and just
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Speaker 3: feel in control.
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Speaker 2: Gosh, that's such a huge question.
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Speaker 3: Sorry, it's a big question.
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Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. First Nations people have either
5:41
Speaker 2: been allowed to participate in the economy for the last
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Speaker 2: fifty years, we weren't able to get jobs, open up
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Speaker 2: bank accounts, buy homes, and so as a result of that,
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Speaker 2: like our financial literacy levels are significantly lower. Because even
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Speaker 2: my own mum grew up in the generation and where
6:00
Speaker 2: she wasn't part of the constitution, right, So people say, oh,
6:04
Speaker 2: these things happen like two hundred years ago, and I
6:06
Speaker 2: was like, no, no, it didn't. It's so recent, Like
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Speaker 2: it's it is so recent. But in saying that too,
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Speaker 2: then there becomes this lack of trust in the institutions themselves.
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Speaker 2: And I mean only ACIK again have brought out a
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Speaker 2: report on A and Z and some of the misconduct
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Speaker 2: in banking there, and almost every week one of the
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Speaker 2: super funds or the banks are in the news because
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Speaker 2: they're doing something that's harmful to vulnerable people within our community,
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Speaker 2: and not just vulnerable people but just customers in general.
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Speaker 2: So they're not doing all that much to kind of
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Speaker 2: rebuild that trust with First Nations people. I think there's
6:42
Speaker 2: just been also, like I think really important to note
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Speaker 2: a lack of intergenerational wealth that I think people don't
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Speaker 2: even realize. Like for people that come from intergenerational world
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Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that you come from a family
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Speaker 2: that has millions and billions of dollars, but to know
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Speaker 2: that if something went wrong, you could go to mom
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Speaker 2: and dad and they could help you out, or you know,
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Speaker 2: to pay the mortgage or to help with a deposit
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Speaker 2: for a home loan or something along those lines. That
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Speaker 2: death doesn't exist for First Nations people, and so we
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Speaker 2: know deep down and how far behind we are in
7:16
Speaker 2: the game and just trying to play catch up. It
7:19
Speaker 2: can be really overwhelming. But most importantly, this real sense
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Speaker 2: of shame and around you know, everyone kind of knows
7:26
Speaker 2: where you sit. Within the economy itself, people just naturally
7:30
Speaker 2: just assume that you don't know what you're doing. So
7:33
Speaker 2: even applying for bank loans or car loans and having
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Speaker 2: being able to have conversations at an institutional level, that
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Speaker 2: makes sense. So evaluation is a really good example of
7:44
Speaker 2: really convoluted, unnecessary language that's used within the system that
7:49
Speaker 2: prevents people from interacting with it. Even the average person
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Speaker 2: is like, sorry, what do these words mean?
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Speaker 3: Like, oh, yeah, we're already at a disadvantage, but First
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Speaker 3: Nations people are at more of a disadvantage. And it
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Speaker 3: blows my mind that they don't take that more seriously
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Speaker 3: or put more time or energy or effort into it,
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Speaker 3: because it's not like you guys aren't jumping up and
8:07
Speaker 3: down and being like, excuse me, I don't know if
8:10
Speaker 3: you noticed, but.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think for things I can because we
8:14
Speaker 2: run the Indigenous super Working Groups, So we took that
8:16
Speaker 2: over two years ago to try and advocate for the
8:19
Speaker 2: rights of First Nations people within the supervaluation sector and
8:22
Speaker 2: work directly with the sector itself. But the superaluation they
8:27
Speaker 2: just don't have any First Nations representation in the rooms
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Speaker 2: having the conversations at an operational level. So when we're
8:33
Speaker 2: talking about products and service and delivery, where are the
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Speaker 2: First Nations voices in those rooms that are assisting with that.
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Speaker 2: And so when you have a predominantly one demographic, I
8:42
Speaker 2: won't say all white men that I call.
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Speaker 3: Them mediocare middle aged white men, so like you don't
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Speaker 3: have to be not offensive, that's just what I call
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Speaker 3: them as a base level.
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Speaker 2: But the reality is is that there aren't other voices
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Speaker 2: in those rooms, like you know, even if we're talking
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Speaker 2: about the rights of you know, people with disabilities and
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Speaker 2: how they access services and people that fall under that
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Speaker 2: vulnerability bucket, there is still so much work that needs
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Speaker 2: to be done at an institutional level to help support
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Speaker 2: First Nations people. And there's instances I've heard or have
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Speaker 2: been watching my attention where First Nations people have called
9:17
Speaker 2: up call centers to access the service that have been
9:20
Speaker 2: discriminated against or been made to feel ashamed, you know,
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Speaker 2: like made to feel like an idiot, so you're not
9:25
Speaker 2: going to call back up, You're not going to interact
9:27
Speaker 2: with that, and so yeah, like it's just there's so
9:31
Speaker 2: much still institutionalized issues and again just dealing with the
9:35
Speaker 2: shame that we deal with internally as well. I reflect
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Speaker 2: on my own financial literacy journey, Like I didn't really
9:43
Speaker 2: know what I was doing with money. I came from
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Speaker 2: my mother who's first Nations, raised my brother, and I
9:48
Speaker 2: had low levels of financial literacy my own concept and
9:52
Speaker 2: views and relationship just my relationship with money and understanding that.
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Speaker 2: And I wasn't until I was in my late twenties
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Speaker 2: early thirties that I picked up Barefoot Investors because I
10:03
Speaker 2: was just kind of like I need to start somewhere
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Speaker 2: to take control, like and I don't know who to trust,
10:09
Speaker 2: and you know, like started listening to podcasts and people
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Speaker 2: talk about different things, and to some degree that brought
10:16
Speaker 2: up a lot of shame for me internally to be like, oh,
10:18
Speaker 2: should I have not already been somewhere else by this
10:21
Speaker 2: point in my life, Like, yeah, just trying to navigate
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Speaker 2: that without the tools that I needed to get to
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Speaker 2: where I am. So there are so many challenges and
10:30
Speaker 2: barriers that are in the way, and again community expectations
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Speaker 2: as well that can be quite difficult. First nations, people
10:37
Speaker 2: participate in the sharing economy and I didn't even know
10:40
Speaker 2: that there was a name to it. I knew that
10:42
Speaker 2: I was participating in it my whole life. But it's
10:45
Speaker 2: a sharing economy. And our concept of wealth and money
10:49
Speaker 2: differs to Western society, where Western society is about the
10:52
Speaker 2: accumulation of wealth, like I need to get more and
10:54
Speaker 2: more and hold on to it. Where one of the
10:56
Speaker 2: beautiful things about our culture is that we care for
10:59
Speaker 2: one another. So yeah, like when money comes in, you'll
11:03
Speaker 2: have mobcome around and family and say, oh, I need
11:05
Speaker 2: money for this, and it's just like a no brainer.
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Speaker 2: You just do it because you care for each other
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Speaker 2: and they do that in return. But one of the
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Speaker 2: problems is is if not everybody is participating in the
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Speaker 2: sharing economy, it becomes humbugging. Its financial abuse, and so
11:21
Speaker 2: that becomes problematic for people as well. So yeah, there's
11:24
Speaker 2: definitely different layers. There's different layers for us on personal levels.
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Speaker 2: Learning how to set healthy boundaries, navigating resources that help
11:31
Speaker 2: us do that, and deal with the internal shame that
11:35
Speaker 2: we face around those sorts of things. But also still
11:37
Speaker 2: how these larger institutions are kind of working alongside us
11:41
Speaker 2: to improve services one hundred percent.
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Speaker 3: And you touched on this before, like you know, you
11:46
Speaker 3: said before, it was only fifty years ago that you
11:49
Speaker 3: were officially allowed to participate in this economy, which is
11:52
Speaker 3: messed up to begin with. We won't dive into that,
11:54
Speaker 3: but money is already difficult. Money is hard for most
11:58
Speaker 3: people in general. What additional barriers apart from the fact
12:02
Speaker 3: that you've been excluded for so long? Are First Nations
12:06
Speaker 3: women more likely to face when it comes to money.
12:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a huge portion of our women
12:12
Speaker 2: that are in dB situations, right, and so one of
12:16
Speaker 2: the things that one of the programs we have trained
12:18
Speaker 2: the Trainer helps support support workers community support workers to
12:23
Speaker 2: help provide financial counseling and two women especially who are
12:28
Speaker 2: navigating domestic violence situations. So one of those things is
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Speaker 2: I don't feel that I can leave this situation because
12:34
Speaker 2: I don't have the resources to be able to do that.
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Speaker 2: I don't have the money to be able to do that.
12:39
Speaker 2: I don't know how to budget or you know, this
12:42
Speaker 2: fear of being able to provide for your children, right, Like.
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Speaker 3: It's terrifying as a concept.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so like there's yeah, one of the
12:53
Speaker 2: things with our training is really just trying to assist
12:55
Speaker 2: those women to give them the skills so that they
12:57
Speaker 2: can have the confidence to leave and building up wealth
13:01
Speaker 2: for themselves so that they're not stuck in a position
13:04
Speaker 2: where they can't leave a domestic violent situation or even
13:07
Speaker 2: a family violent situation. So really just giving them the skills.
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Speaker 2: They also like community commitments right again, Like we're so
13:16
Speaker 2: very tied to our communities, which is such a positive
13:19
Speaker 2: and beautiful thing. Like it's not something that I would
13:22
Speaker 2: ever advocate that we change as people. That it's that
13:26
Speaker 2: you can be so tied down to community needs and
13:29
Speaker 2: requirements that you forget about your own well being. And
13:32
Speaker 2: so one of the things that I always I love
13:35
Speaker 2: about our women's program and talking to is how do
13:37
Speaker 2: you balance like protecting yourself and setting boundaries with community,
13:42
Speaker 2: Because you can't pour from an empty cup. You also
13:45
Speaker 2: have to care for yourself. So it's so fine to
13:47
Speaker 2: love others and to serve in community the way that
13:50
Speaker 2: you do. But again, you have to take care of
13:53
Speaker 2: yourself and you have to take In some instances, I've
13:56
Speaker 2: seen women give so much that they haven't had the
13:58
Speaker 2: ability to be able to fear their own children and
14:01
Speaker 2: look after their own needs. And that's where that healthy
14:05
Speaker 2: boundaries comes in. And I think that's so programmed into us.
14:09
Speaker 2: And I think in a society today where maybe balanced
14:13
Speaker 2: responsibility between men and women look different as well, women
14:17
Speaker 2: are carrying a lot more burdens. So yeah, there's definitely
14:20
Speaker 2: more cultural types considerations.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely. And if someone comes to you and they say
14:26
Speaker 3: I really need help with money matters or their suffering
14:29
Speaker 3: and you've kind of identified their suffering from financial hardship,
14:33
Speaker 3: what is the first thing you recommend to them?
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Speaker 2: Financial counselors. Financial counselors are a free service and they
14:40
Speaker 2: have the ability to work with individuals to provide support
14:43
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't normally be able to access. And this
14:46
Speaker 2: isn't just for First Nations people. Financial counselors are available
14:50
Speaker 2: for all people, but financial Counseling Australia actually have some
14:55
Speaker 2: First Nations counselors that work directly with mob because they
14:59
Speaker 2: understand the cultural needs of First Nations people and so
15:04
Speaker 2: that can be helping them navigate some severe debt, could
15:08
Speaker 2: even be advocating on behalf of them. Right. So a
15:12
Speaker 2: lot of First Nations people don't even realize that there's
15:14
Speaker 2: on Bundsman's for example, Right, So, what happens if there's
15:18
Speaker 2: some misconduct or something's happened to you in an interaction
15:21
Speaker 2: with the financial services sector, who do you complain to?
15:24
Speaker 2: Where do you go? On? Budsman's can support and can
15:27
Speaker 2: help with that. And I'll give you an example of
15:31
Speaker 2: a really good case. And this is why I always
15:32
Speaker 2: say to people, go to on Budsman's for support. One
15:36
Speaker 2: of my best friend's sister was in a domestic violence
15:39
Speaker 2: situation recently. Her ex partner had set up a business Forutulantly,
15:44
Speaker 2: she was essentially coerced into setting up a business wrapped
15:48
Speaker 2: up one hundred and eighty thousand dollars bass Biel. She's
15:50
Speaker 2: a single mum, nos, no, just basically on Center Link
15:54
Speaker 2: family payments and the ATO basically gone after for one
15:59
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty thous and all the debt that's not hers,
16:02
Speaker 2: that's so messed up. She went to the ATO to
16:04
Speaker 2: prove she was in a DV situation that that wasn't
16:07
Speaker 2: her debt. They've ignored that she went to them and
16:10
Speaker 2: they ignored that, yes, yeah, correct, And then they also
16:13
Speaker 2: didn't provide her the correct vulnerability team that would be
16:17
Speaker 2: able to support her. And so I've been very very
16:20
Speaker 2: vocal about this particular situation. And there's a tax on budsmen, right,
16:25
Speaker 2: So there's an actual I didn't you think if anyone
16:27
Speaker 2: would know that, it would be me. But I didn't
16:30
Speaker 2: even know. I was in a forum basically blasting the
16:33
Speaker 2: ATO in an open conversation and someone said the tax
16:37
Speaker 2: on Budsmen's over there, and.
16:38
Speaker 3: I was like, like, where is he sit down?
16:41
Speaker 2: Yeah? And they were so beautiful, right, Like they were
16:44
Speaker 2: so helpful to the point where we got notification last
16:47
Speaker 2: week that the ATO has wiped the debt and will
16:49
Speaker 2: not be coming up.
16:50
Speaker 3: Stop it good. I was about to be like, what
16:52
Speaker 3: can I do? How can I help? Because like, I
16:54
Speaker 3: can be vocal, you just tell me what you need
16:56
Speaker 3: me to say.
16:56
Speaker 2: Girl. Yeah, but like on budsman's it's so useful and
17:00
Speaker 2: and a lot of the time we don't even know
17:01
Speaker 2: they exist. And financial counselors can help with that advocacy, right, like,
17:06
Speaker 2: they can step in and go, Okay, we're not getting
17:08
Speaker 2: where we need to go with this. Let's get a
17:10
Speaker 2: non budsman involved in this situation and help them navigate that.
17:15
Speaker 2: They provide resources and tools that a lot of people
17:17
Speaker 2: don't even realize they have, and then can obviously help
17:20
Speaker 2: with things like budgeting and the understanding finance. And you know,
17:24
Speaker 2: they're not going to get into the technical things like
17:25
Speaker 2: where should you invest your super but they will help
17:28
Speaker 2: when you're in financial crisis and you need some help.
17:32
Speaker 2: They're always the first person I say go to.
17:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not talking about hey, like let's set up
17:36
Speaker 3: an ETF portfolio, because unfortunately that's not going to work there.
17:40
Speaker 3: But I also think that even conversations like this are
17:42
Speaker 3: really helpful because you know, you might not be going
17:45
Speaker 3: through a similar situation, thankfully, but now you know that
17:49
Speaker 3: the ombardsmen exists, and if you hear about another friend
17:53
Speaker 3: that's going through this, you can be like, oh my god,
17:54
Speaker 3: so actually there's this thing and I don't know enough
17:56
Speaker 3: about it, but I know enough to be dangerous, and
17:58
Speaker 3: I can use Google and we can work out what
18:00
Speaker 3: that actually means. And I think that that's where this
18:03
Speaker 3: sharing economy that you guys have is so beautiful because
18:05
Speaker 3: it's not just financial, it's all about knowledge and skill sharing,
18:09
Speaker 3: and like just there's so much beauty in that community.
18:13
Speaker 3: Talk to me a bit more about the first thing
18:16
Speaker 3: that you suggest, So not necessarily people going through financial
18:19
Speaker 3: hardship or even like they're you know, in these situations,
18:23
Speaker 3: just general First Nations people that come across FNF. What's
18:27
Speaker 3: the first thing you suggest that our First Nation's community
18:30
Speaker 3: members do to just set themselves up for success when
18:33
Speaker 3: it comes to money.
18:34
Speaker 2: We always guide people to our online modules. So all
18:37
Speaker 2: of our content on our website is completely free for mom.
18:40
Speaker 2: So we have some online courses.
18:43
Speaker 3: You guys are so good, I'm obsessed.
18:47
Speaker 2: Thank you. But we have some online modules that people
18:51
Speaker 2: can go through their self pay. So you know, if
18:54
Speaker 2: you've got kids and your you know, you can try
18:57
Speaker 2: to juggle learning online and you know one life is busy,
19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah you can. You can jump on when it's convenient
19:06
Speaker 2: for you. We have a number of resources that are
19:10
Speaker 2: also just available on our website on how Tomorrow Money website,
19:13
Speaker 2: which goes from everything like by doing basics to how
19:18
Speaker 2: to watch out for scams and disaster recovery and you
19:22
Speaker 2: know all these sorts of stuff. You know what you
19:25
Speaker 2: need to set yourself up. So if you're renting a
19:26
Speaker 2: home for the first time, what are the things that
19:28
Speaker 2: you need to consider Potentially you know, some home and
19:31
Speaker 2: contents insurance or just contents insurance, depending on your situation.
19:36
Speaker 2: We always just point people to the website first and foremost,
19:39
Speaker 2: and for those people that want to then get further
19:42
Speaker 2: information and do more of our workshops and we get
19:44
Speaker 2: them to register for them. We also have our Rich
19:47
Speaker 2: Black Women webinar series that happens I think it's monthly
19:52
Speaker 2: that's run by one of our fabulous trainers, Kienna. So yeah,
19:56
Speaker 2: usually it's just our online resources to get people familiar
20:00
Speaker 2: with the type of content too that we deliver.
20:02
Speaker 3: That's cool, Like just the fact that you have like
20:04
Speaker 3: a Rich Black Women webinar, I'm like, yeah, get at
20:06
Speaker 3: Queen's I love this.
20:08
Speaker 2: We've just recorded Rich Black Women Season three, which is
20:12
Speaker 2: Rich Black Women in Business last Friday, and I was
20:15
Speaker 2: inspired with this series because a lot of the women
20:19
Speaker 2: that I had interviewed on Rich Black Women, they all
20:23
Speaker 2: started where we all start kind of thing, and I
20:26
Speaker 2: think sometimes first Nations women go, oh, I can't reach
20:29
Speaker 2: that because I'm in a bad situation or whatever it is.
20:33
Speaker 2: And you know, I grew up in family violence. I've
20:36
Speaker 2: been in a DV situation, and you know, I'm thirty
20:39
Speaker 2: seven next month and I've owned my own business. I've
20:42
Speaker 2: sat on boards, I've done it, and I never thought
20:45
Speaker 2: that I would ever get to where I've gotten to
20:48
Speaker 2: if you had asked me when I was back in that.
20:50
Speaker 2: And so it was really an opportunity to inspire other
20:53
Speaker 2: First Nations women who might be in difficult situations to
20:57
Speaker 2: still aspire to more if that's what they want to
20:59
Speaker 2: do one hundred percent.
21:00
Speaker 3: And you're like so capable of it before and you
21:03
Speaker 3: were touching on you know something that broke my heart.
21:05
Speaker 3: You were like, oh, I started like learning about financial
21:08
Speaker 3: literacy and a lot of shame came up and I
21:10
Speaker 3: felt like I was behind, and you know I should
21:12
Speaker 3: be shamed by that, and I'm just like, no, Like,
21:14
Speaker 3: you're taking control of this situation where you know, there
21:18
Speaker 3: are so many First Nation's businesses out there, and the
21:20
Speaker 3: coolest thing about them is we know that they weren't
21:23
Speaker 3: backed by intergenerational wealth like mommy or Daddy did not
21:26
Speaker 3: turn around to go, oh, honey, you want to start
21:28
Speaker 3: a business, I'll give you one hundred grand, Like you
21:30
Speaker 3: didn't get that foot up. Every single thing that you
21:33
Speaker 3: guys have done has been off your own backs and
21:36
Speaker 3: off community and off supporting one another. And that just
21:39
Speaker 3: makes me, I don't know, so proud by virtual Like
21:43
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at it, going you guys are killing it.
21:45
Speaker 3: I love it.
21:45
Speaker 2: And it's so cool because most recent figures show that
21:50
Speaker 2: First Nations businesses contribute sixteen billion dollars to the Australian economy.
21:55
Speaker 2: That's not sole traders. That is businesses where they have
21:58
Speaker 2: twenty or more employees, so the numbers obviously way bigger
22:02
Speaker 2: than that, and it's just, yeah, it is inspiring. I
22:05
Speaker 2: think a new report will be is due to come
22:07
Speaker 2: out at the end of this year, which I'm hoping
22:09
Speaker 2: most figures are just going to do all triple inside.
22:12
Speaker 2: Oh they are, they absolutely are, and like that's it's
22:15
Speaker 2: just so exciting, and I think that we need to
22:17
Speaker 2: be sometimes like you guys as a community need to
22:20
Speaker 2: be reminded of all this cool stuff you're doing, because
22:22
Speaker 2: when it gets down to a personal level and you
22:24
Speaker 2: start like looking at a budgeting and cash flow and
22:27
Speaker 2: you know, working out all this stuff that you were
22:30
Speaker 2: not taught in school because as you said before, Leah,
22:32
Speaker 2: you had to literally go to Parliament to be like,
22:35
Speaker 2: by the way, your curriculum.
22:36
Speaker 3: Is out dated, Like this stuff isn't taught. So why
22:40
Speaker 3: are you feeling bad about content that you never laid
22:43
Speaker 3: eyes on? And you were already at a disadvantage for
22:46
Speaker 3: because you didn't have parents who were financially literally, you
22:49
Speaker 3: didn't have people that sat you down and said, all right, well, Leah,
22:52
Speaker 3: this is how you budget, this is how.
22:53
Speaker 2: You cash flow.
22:54
Speaker 3: Like sorry, it makes me so mad that you had
22:58
Speaker 3: to feel shame through that process instead of going wow,
23:01
Speaker 3: like we're not starting again, we're not starting from scratch.
23:04
Speaker 3: We're just starting from here and like things can be
23:07
Speaker 3: better and things can be different and you can feel
23:09
Speaker 3: even more empowered, Like it should be an empowering journey,
23:12
Speaker 3: and like I don't know how to get from where
23:14
Speaker 3: that exists, because we know it does to Like every
23:17
Speaker 3: single person who engages in this content doesn't feel shame.
23:20
Speaker 3: They just feel like, oh my god, this could be
23:22
Speaker 3: so good for me. But the content that you create
23:26
Speaker 3: on a regular basis is doing that. Like, I just
23:28
Speaker 3: know that the people that are tuning into rich black women,
23:30
Speaker 3: they get off and they're like icons, look at them.
23:33
Speaker 3: Go even your story. I'm like, look at this, like
23:36
Speaker 3: this woman is absolutely killing it. And if we went
23:39
Speaker 3: back and spoke to baby, you'd be like, not possible. Sorry,
23:44
Speaker 3: you just proved it wrong.
23:45
Speaker 2: It's so good now and just to see the young
23:48
Speaker 2: women come through too that are starting their careers and yeah,
23:52
Speaker 2: just like the confidence that they have and that's yeah,
23:57
Speaker 2: that is just it's wise me all the time. You know.
24:00
Speaker 2: There was a story of a mum who'd done now
24:02
Speaker 2: one of our workshops and she's now teaching her babies,
24:07
Speaker 2: like her little ones, how to budget with their allowance
24:10
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I was like, that is taken your
24:12
Speaker 2: power back, right, Like that is going, Okay, I might
24:16
Speaker 2: not have all the answers and I don't. I don't
24:18
Speaker 2: know everything, but what I do know, I'm now going
24:21
Speaker 2: to transfer that knowledge onto my baby so that they
24:24
Speaker 2: can have yeah, more than what I did it And
24:27
Speaker 2: that's why we do what we do.
24:28
Speaker 3: No, it's so beautiful, isn't it. First nations women retire
24:32
Speaker 3: with much less supernuation on average, with average estimates being
24:37
Speaker 3: around sixty one percent less than the superanuation balance of
24:42
Speaker 3: non indigenous men. No, unacceptable, And obviously there needs to
24:46
Speaker 3: be not just change, not just conversation, but systematic change.
24:52
Speaker 3: What can individuals be doing to put themselves in a
24:55
Speaker 3: better position when it comes to retirement, because, like I mean,
24:58
Speaker 3: sometimes we're all just the same and talking about retirement.
25:00
Speaker 3: It's not that sexy.
25:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And obviously disclaim this is not financial advice.
25:06
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's okay. There's a disclaimer on the podcast, babe,
25:09
Speaker 3: there's a disclaimer in my show notes. This is just
25:12
Speaker 3: a conversation between two friends about tools and resources that
25:16
Speaker 3: you guys could access, and hopefully a conversation that makes
25:20
Speaker 3: you go, maybe I should think about retirement because you're
25:22
Speaker 3: at it's not that sexy, But I actually am in
25:25
Speaker 3: control of this, and I actually could put future me
25:28
Speaker 3: in the best possible position, and like maybe one day
25:31
Speaker 3: we might have some type of intergenerational wealth and we
25:34
Speaker 3: could brag about that.
25:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's a couple of factors that are
25:39
Speaker 2: contributing to this. That can be early access to super right,
25:43
Speaker 2: so in severe financial high chip and so people need
25:47
Speaker 2: to access their superannuation. The second situation is that women
25:53
Speaker 2: are obviously taking time off to have babies, and then
25:57
Speaker 2: even when them babies go to school, you know, there's
26:00
Speaker 2: a sick date, Mum has to take time off, don't
26:02
Speaker 2: get paid to you know, for those days, and so
26:05
Speaker 2: she's working just far less in general, which is obviously
26:09
Speaker 2: meaning that there's less contributions being made to her super annuation.
26:13
Speaker 2: And women are take on more caring type responsibility roles
26:18
Speaker 2: within their community. Right, and that is that you probably
26:21
Speaker 2: spend less time working, which obviously means that there's less
26:25
Speaker 2: at retirement. Each individual person circumstances are going to be different, right,
26:30
Speaker 2: Like there's no one size fits all, but it's about
26:32
Speaker 2: what you can do. And I want to circle back
26:35
Speaker 2: kind of to the conversation, bring it back to myself
26:38
Speaker 2: that like I had zero financial literacy skills whatsoever, but
26:43
Speaker 2: over time really understanding the importance and significance of super
26:48
Speaker 2: annuation to empower myself to understand how I can get
26:52
Speaker 2: the best out of it for my retirement. And that
26:55
Speaker 2: was talking to financial planners to understand how my super
26:59
Speaker 2: manual should be invested. Because everyone who has a super
27:03
Speaker 2: anuation fund it automatically goes into a default investment time,
27:08
Speaker 2: and so most of us just leave it and we
27:10
Speaker 2: don't interact with our super annuation until we're getting closer
27:13
Speaker 2: retirement aid, and then by then it's too late. So
27:16
Speaker 2: you're not getting compounded interest to the degree in which
27:19
Speaker 2: you might if your investments were allocated somewhere else. And
27:23
Speaker 2: so it's really important to kind of consider that, while
27:27
Speaker 2: it seems so so far away, that it is something
27:31
Speaker 2: that just having a phone call and talking to somebody
27:34
Speaker 2: to get some level of advice around your super annuation,
27:37
Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, what your supervaluation
27:40
Speaker 2: is invested in will dictate how much you retire with right, absolutely, Yeah,
27:45
Speaker 2: So talking to a financial planner around that, because again
27:49
Speaker 2: everyone's individual circumstances are so different based off the work
27:54
Speaker 2: you're doing. I mean, some people make additional contributions into
27:58
Speaker 2: their super annuation and that could be a certain amount
28:01
Speaker 2: that could be within your budget that would be helpful.
28:04
Speaker 2: A financial planner would be able to assist in helping
28:08
Speaker 2: you kind of understand what that might look like and
28:10
Speaker 2: what might be reasonable. And I think too, I used
28:13
Speaker 2: to underestimate so much about even just putting the smallest
28:17
Speaker 2: bit away and investing it like, yeah, I've got money
28:22
Speaker 2: in some additional investment. Because I started investing, I just
28:25
Speaker 2: became a nerd about it. And I was like, I'm
28:27
Speaker 2: so excited because like, home ownership might not be an
28:30
Speaker 2: option for some people. So I was like, I want
28:32
Speaker 2: to learn how to invest, Like what's this about? And
28:35
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't even like even just the smallest amounts, like,
28:39
Speaker 2: we'll still make a difference, and I think we underestimate that.
28:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, just equipping yourself with the skills. There is
28:45
Speaker 2: systematic issues, legislative issues, there's things that need to have,
28:50
Speaker 2: you know, changes that are outside of our control. But
28:53
Speaker 2: for me, it's all about what can you control with
28:55
Speaker 2: what you have and understanding too. I think it's one
28:59
Speaker 2: of the biggest issues in the superaluation sector is the
29:01
Speaker 2: fact that most First Nations people, or a large majority
29:04
Speaker 2: of First Nations people, will die before they reach preservation eight.
29:08
Speaker 2: So they'll die before they get to sixty five. And
29:11
Speaker 2: so then you would go, why would I care about this?
29:13
Speaker 2: Because that then becomes a legacy plan for your family, right,
29:18
Speaker 2: and so you putting money aside and taking care of
29:22
Speaker 2: this nest egg. It's the first time in history, you
29:25
Speaker 2: will have the opportunity to pass on into generational wealth.
29:28
Speaker 2: And having that then means that your family will be
29:32
Speaker 2: cared for after you've passed away, and.
29:34
Speaker 3: You can make a plan for that. And I think
29:36
Speaker 3: a lot of people. I have spoken to a lot
29:39
Speaker 3: of First Nations people about that, and they're like, well,
29:41
Speaker 3: my mum died at fifty five and my dad died
29:43
Speaker 3: at sixty two and they never got to access it,
29:45
Speaker 3: so why would I care? And valid, very very valid.
29:49
Speaker 3: But you're creating the legacy that your ancestors weren't afforded
29:53
Speaker 3: and now we can make change, and that is so beautiful,
29:57
Speaker 3: and making a plan around that is so important. I
29:59
Speaker 3: actually this morning recorded the second part to my mini
30:03
Speaker 3: super series. I did like a two part thing on
30:07
Speaker 3: the importance of not just being in your default portfolio,
30:09
Speaker 3: what you can do to check your super how you
30:11
Speaker 3: can do it, because as much as your recommendation of
30:14
Speaker 3: talking to a financial planet is fantastic, it can also
30:17
Speaker 3: feel really out of reach because we can't all afford
30:20
Speaker 3: to go and get advice. The other thing I would say,
30:23
Speaker 3: and I'll put all of the information in the show notes,
30:25
Speaker 3: You guys are going to have a bank of resources
30:28
Speaker 3: in there. I do apologize. But the other thing I
30:30
Speaker 3: would say is if you have a superfund and you're
30:33
Speaker 3: paying super fees, which spoiler you are, if you have
30:35
Speaker 3: a super fund, you can call your supernuation fund for
30:39
Speaker 3: free to discuss anything about your super balance, anything about
30:43
Speaker 3: the fund, their performance, your risk profile, what you should
30:47
Speaker 3: be investing in, what's going to put you in the
30:48
Speaker 3: best possible position, all for free. So it's not necessarily
30:53
Speaker 3: free because you're already paying your super fees for it,
30:56
Speaker 3: but they're kind of non consensual fees that you're paying anyway,
30:59
Speaker 3: so you may as well make the most out of it.
31:01
Speaker 3: And I would say that most super funds, you're not
31:04
Speaker 3: calling up the CEO. It's just normal people who talk
31:08
Speaker 3: in normal language about these topics. And maybe that's not enough,
31:12
Speaker 3: but like it's a really good place to start.
31:15
Speaker 2: And one of the things that we're advocating for at
31:17
Speaker 2: the moment is greater cultural competency within the superannuation sectors
31:22
Speaker 2: call centers. So when our community calls up, they're dealing
31:27
Speaker 2: with people that they feel safe, have any arm with,
31:30
Speaker 2: right like they're not going to be judged, and there's
31:33
Speaker 2: some support there. The superanuation has a long way to go,
31:37
Speaker 2: but there is that support within the superannuation sector. And
31:41
Speaker 2: I do want to say to one of the things
31:44
Speaker 2: that we're currently advocating for. So I've met with their
31:46
Speaker 2: assistant Treasurer Minisimolino two weeks ago to talk about changing
31:52
Speaker 2: the legislation to include First Nations kinship structures.
31:56
Speaker 3: I was about to ask about that, Yeah, I.
31:59
Speaker 2: Bet you to it, because I mean, there's nothing that
32:01
Speaker 2: can be done at an institutional level that's a legislative requirement.
32:05
Speaker 2: And it looks like they're really engaged and have appetite
32:08
Speaker 2: and really really interested in continuing to explore changes. But
32:14
Speaker 2: it's not even First Nations kinship structures, right. I think,
32:17
Speaker 2: more broadly, how we view family today is very very different.
32:22
Speaker 2: You know, I'd like to be able to leave some
32:24
Speaker 2: of my nephews some money, and like that's a whole
32:27
Speaker 2: other conversation around beneficiaries and binding beneficiaries and the importance
32:32
Speaker 2: of that. But one of my aunties, I didn't even know.
32:35
Speaker 2: She wasn't even a real auntie of mine until I
32:38
Speaker 2: thought she was like my actual auntie, But she was
32:41
Speaker 2: my mum's cousin and that's so common, like it's just
32:43
Speaker 2: such a.
32:44
Speaker 3: Normal, still related, she's still in the club.
32:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, she's definite. She was one of my favorite too.
32:50
Speaker 2: But you know, if she had to go up against
32:52
Speaker 2: the supervaluation sector to say well, I want access to
32:55
Speaker 2: the death benefits associated with this super, she would have
32:57
Speaker 2: been declined, you know. And so I just want to
33:01
Speaker 2: assure everyone, like we're doing everything at First Nations Foundation
33:04
Speaker 2: to definitely advocate in these spaces. Legislative changes take time,
33:09
Speaker 2: but I think it's important that we should feel encouraged
33:12
Speaker 2: anyway that change is happening and we have buy in
33:16
Speaker 2: from the government, which is fantastic. Yeah, And I think
33:19
Speaker 2: that that's a really important topic as well, because I
33:21
Speaker 2: think it's so important that they are making the time
33:26
Speaker 2: and the energy and the space to discuss how they
33:28
Speaker 2: can make sure that your culture is respected when it
33:30
Speaker 2: comes to super and it's just not. It's just not.
33:34
Speaker 3: And you're right. In terms of beneficiaries, it's so limited.
33:38
Speaker 3: I had a friend pass away recently and she had
33:41
Speaker 3: listed her sister as her beneficiary and even that isn't
33:45
Speaker 3: acceptable in the superannuation space. But you go, but it's
33:48
Speaker 3: my money. It should be my choice, like what's going
33:51
Speaker 3: on here? So there just needs to be so much
33:54
Speaker 3: done in that space. And I'm grateful that you're standing
33:56
Speaker 3: up and having conversations about that because to me, that's
33:58
Speaker 3: more important than you know, just assister getting it. But
34:01
Speaker 3: like sorry, you guys should have say over the money
34:05
Speaker 3: that you earned and where it goes and how it's distributed,
34:08
Speaker 3: not even just firstinations people.
34:10
Speaker 2: I'm not married and I don't have children. If I
34:13
Speaker 2: was to pass away tomorrow, where does my money go,
34:16
Speaker 2: because you know, my kinships structure or the people around
34:20
Speaker 2: me that I'm closest to. If I haven't listed, if
34:22
Speaker 2: I don't even know that, I have to list beneficiaries,
34:26
Speaker 2: which is like a lot of people.
34:28
Speaker 3: Most people don't know, like genuinely, I'm I was a
34:31
Speaker 3: financial adviser, so I know, but that's why I know.
34:34
Speaker 3: And just the idea that then you would have to
34:36
Speaker 3: and it becomes more complex and I don't want to
34:39
Speaker 3: dive too deep into it, but like the way that
34:41
Speaker 3: you would get that money to a friend or a
34:44
Speaker 3: family member or to your you know, mum's cousin who's
34:47
Speaker 3: actually your aunt, is via a trust and via nominating
34:52
Speaker 3: your estate and then having a complete will set up
34:55
Speaker 3: and a plan for that estate. But that's another complexity
34:58
Speaker 3: that you haven't had the privilege understanding, and you can't
35:02
Speaker 3: expect people to just rely on that when the logical
35:05
Speaker 3: answer would be heylee, I just log into yours like
35:08
Speaker 3: super account and just nominate who you want to get
35:10
Speaker 3: your staff. Like, why is it not that simple?
35:14
Speaker 2: Anyway?
35:15
Speaker 3: I won't go on and on about that. So another
35:18
Speaker 3: question I have is for our first nation's community members
35:21
Speaker 3: who actually have limited ID or like mismatched details, which
35:26
Speaker 3: then blocks them from opening up bank accounts or opening
35:29
Speaker 3: up a subernuation account, what do we do? What do
35:32
Speaker 3: you recommend that they do?
35:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great question, and it's a really common challenge.
35:39
Speaker 2: I think it's really important to actually educate people on
35:41
Speaker 2: why certain identification is required to so that people can
35:46
Speaker 2: understand because some people are just like, well, you know,
35:48
Speaker 2: what does it really matter? I think educating people is
35:51
Speaker 2: super important, especially with the processes that happen within financial institutions.
35:57
Speaker 2: Kycing is essentially a protoct or that's put in place
36:01
Speaker 2: by oz Trapp, which is a regulator to ensure that
36:04
Speaker 2: people are who they say that they are to protect
36:07
Speaker 2: from money laundering and terrorism financing. So it's really really important.
36:11
Speaker 2: It's important to protect you, and it's important to protect
36:14
Speaker 2: our communities to ensure that criminal activity is not happening.
36:19
Speaker 2: And so while sometimes these processes can seem really rigid
36:24
Speaker 2: and frustrating, they are there to protect us. But there
36:28
Speaker 2: is what's called an Alternative forms of Identification guideline that
36:32
Speaker 2: was put out by os TRACK to accommodate not just
36:35
Speaker 2: First Nations people but vulnerable people in general. So you're
36:38
Speaker 2: a person who has fled a domestic violence situation and
36:42
Speaker 2: you don't have any identification with you, but you need
36:45
Speaker 2: to access your super or money from your bank or
36:49
Speaker 2: something along those lines. Those institutions have to comply with
36:52
Speaker 2: that alternative forms of identification. And so if your MOB
36:56
Speaker 2: and all you've put is a community card, maybe you
36:58
Speaker 2: don't have a birth certificate or anything like that, all
37:01
Speaker 2: of the institutions now should be in a position where
37:04
Speaker 2: they can use that alternative forms of identification. And that
37:07
Speaker 2: could be too even if you're in a remote more
37:10
Speaker 2: remote community and you don't have access to the conventional
37:14
Speaker 2: services like branches and all that sort of stuff called
37:17
Speaker 2: JPS or police or anything. You can actually get a
37:20
Speaker 2: referee form signed by an elder in community that can say, yeah,
37:24
Speaker 2: I attest to the fact that this person is who
37:27
Speaker 2: they say that they are, and so there are options there.
37:30
Speaker 2: So if at any point you're ever turned down by
37:32
Speaker 2: an institution to say well, if you don't have a
37:35
Speaker 2: driver's license or these are mismatching or anything along like that,
37:39
Speaker 2: you absolutely you should be able to turn around to
37:42
Speaker 2: them and say, well, don't you have the alternative forms
37:44
Speaker 2: of identification? Yeah, And that can be really frustrating, And
37:48
Speaker 2: we've had a lot of dms from people who have
37:50
Speaker 2: been in situations like that. Actually, I'm finding that it's
37:52
Speaker 2: more people inquiring their first nations, but it's for like
37:56
Speaker 2: their parents or even their grandparents who maybe haven't had that.
37:59
Speaker 2: For like, I had a situation where someone was dming
38:02
Speaker 2: me recently and they're like, I'm trying to set my
38:04
Speaker 2: mom up because my dad did all of it before
38:06
Speaker 2: and now he's not around anymore. Like it's the first
38:09
Speaker 2: time she's had a bank account in her name, but
38:11
Speaker 2: we need it obviously, she just doesn't have it. And
38:14
Speaker 2: being remote can be so overwhelming and you just think
38:17
Speaker 2: there aren't any options, but there are so just yeah,
38:20
Speaker 2: and I think that your website provides a lot of
38:22
Speaker 2: really good resources, and like just keep asking, like it's
38:26
Speaker 2: not embarrassing to ask. If they say no, it's actually
38:29
Speaker 2: because they don't understand it, and you're not in this
38:32
Speaker 2: position on your own. Like it's so common, Like it's
38:36
Speaker 2: literally coming up as a question that I have put
38:38
Speaker 2: in the first episode with you because it comes up
38:40
Speaker 2: so damn often. Well, what I think the great things
38:44
Speaker 2: at the moment? Pretty I would say pretty much. Most
38:47
Speaker 2: of the major banks have indigenous customer service teams too
38:50
Speaker 2: that are specialized to help assist mob with focals. And
38:55
Speaker 2: I don't know necessarily know if everybody knows that, But
38:58
Speaker 2: if you say, for instance, we're to call up your
39:00
Speaker 2: financial institution and say, look, I identify as Aboriginal and
39:04
Speaker 2: or Horris straight Islander. Do you have an Aboriginal call
39:07
Speaker 2: center or something that I can go through to? Most
39:10
Speaker 2: of them do? I know? One hundred percent that's CBA, Westpac, NAB.
39:15
Speaker 3: I believe the Big four do.
39:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you have a situation with like identification
39:19
Speaker 2: or something along those lines, they should be able to
39:22
Speaker 2: help assist you in navigating those but I think one
39:25
Speaker 2: of the biggest problems is the lack of awareness around
39:28
Speaker 2: those call centers existing in the first place.
39:30
Speaker 3: We just don't know, like why would you know to
39:32
Speaker 3: call up the bank, and when you're talking to the bank,
39:34
Speaker 3: be like, hey, is this relevant? Like sometimes you don't
39:38
Speaker 3: want to bring that up either, but I think it's
39:41
Speaker 3: really important to just ask what's the worst thing? They say, Oh, no,
39:44
Speaker 3: we don't have that. I'd be considering changing banks.
39:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. So yeah, I'm like going straight through
39:51
Speaker 2: to them, and they've got the tools and the skills
39:54
Speaker 2: and that to be able to assist Mom in any
39:57
Speaker 2: of those difficult situations. But yeah, absolutely, all right, I'm
40:01
Speaker 2: very quickly running out of time with you. I feel
40:03
Speaker 2: like we've had the best chat and I'm so grateful
40:05
Speaker 2: for it. So can you explain humbugging and share a
40:08
Speaker 2: couple of practical tips for setting boundaries while keeping strong
40:11
Speaker 2: relationships because that could be really hard. Yeah. Again, it
40:15
Speaker 2: comes down to that conversation around first nations, people participating
40:19
Speaker 2: in a sharing economy, and when that's sharing and the reciprocity, right,
40:24
Speaker 2: everyone's participating, there's this give and tape natural EBB and
40:28
Speaker 2: flow of resources in community. That is a sharing economy.
40:33
Speaker 2: It's where everyone is participating. And humbugging is where you're
40:40
Speaker 2: essentially targeted because you're the primary breadwinner in community or
40:45
Speaker 2: in your family. And we see this a lot with footballers, right,
40:49
Speaker 2: Like they're on high incomes and then they go home
40:53
Speaker 2: to community and they're left with nothing. We know a
40:56
Speaker 2: famous footballers that have retired with absolutely nothing, right, And
41:00
Speaker 2: so that is humbugging. It is when people are taking
41:04
Speaker 2: from you. And one of the great things about the
41:07
Speaker 2: First Nations Foundation financial literacy programs is we address a
41:10
Speaker 2: lot of that humbugging and how to actually deal with it.
41:13
Speaker 2: We actually help you budget in kinship obligations, right, so
41:18
Speaker 2: instead of going this is not like you know, like
41:20
Speaker 2: whatever whatever's left ee, role just give out, it's how
41:23
Speaker 2: do you budget in those kinship obligations. So humbugging is
41:27
Speaker 2: financial abuse. It's just what the term that we call it.
41:31
Speaker 2: And yeah, it just happens when you're constantly targeted and
41:36
Speaker 2: you know, then you're left with no money or resources
41:39
Speaker 2: for yourself. And so it starts by I think the
41:43
Speaker 2: way to overcome it, or the way in which we
41:45
Speaker 2: teach people in order to deal with it is to
41:48
Speaker 2: remove the shame around it and to understand that there's
41:52
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with you wanting to support your community. That's
41:55
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing, but it's also important that you protect
41:58
Speaker 2: yourself because you might end up in a situation where
42:02
Speaker 2: something happens and you need cash and you need a
42:04
Speaker 2: little bit of money aside. One of the things that
42:07
Speaker 2: we help people do, like I mentioned, was actually budgeting
42:10
Speaker 2: kinship obligation. So we go through the budgeting tool and
42:13
Speaker 2: then go, you know, like I know Auntie comes to
42:16
Speaker 2: me every week for fifty dollars to get X, Y
42:19
Speaker 2: and Z or whatever it is, and I know that
42:21
Speaker 2: this person does, and we know that this person does,
42:23
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, well, what can you realistically budget
42:25
Speaker 2: for with your kinship obligations whilst also putting money aside.
42:30
Speaker 2: Maybe you have three hundred dollars at the end of
42:31
Speaker 2: the week. Maybe you decide that one hundred and fifty
42:34
Speaker 2: of that goes into your savings, your rainy day funds,
42:37
Speaker 2: and then one hundred and fifty that goes to your
42:39
Speaker 2: kinship obligations, right, and just learning to say, look, I
42:42
Speaker 2: don't have fifty, but I have twenty because I also
42:45
Speaker 2: got to give this person thirty or you know, and
42:48
Speaker 2: kind of making sure that there's boundaries in place. It's
42:52
Speaker 2: not saying no, I'm not helping you. It's saying I
42:55
Speaker 2: will help you, but I will help you within these
42:57
Speaker 2: limitations and these boundaries. You know, maybe I can give
43:01
Speaker 2: you twenty this weekend, thirty next week or something like that,
43:05
Speaker 2: but you are always making sure that there is a
43:07
Speaker 2: portion of that money that's kept aside to kind of
43:11
Speaker 2: help you build up your wealth and do the things
43:14
Speaker 2: that you want to do whilst yeah, again like being
43:17
Speaker 2: able to support mom.
43:19
Speaker 3: And it's a really challenging situation to be in. And
43:21
Speaker 3: obviously I have not been in this situation, but I
43:24
Speaker 3: have had the privilege of talking to our community members
43:26
Speaker 3: who have been, and often you find and like, I
43:30
Speaker 3: feel like this question is going to really resonate with
43:32
Speaker 3: the community that listened to this episode, because more often
43:35
Speaker 3: than not, the community I talk to in She's on
43:38
Speaker 3: the Money, who are First Nations women. They are the
43:40
Speaker 3: first to go to university, and they're the first to
43:43
Speaker 3: be bringing in really large paychecks. Like we're not talking astronomical,
43:47
Speaker 3: but like they are seen in their communities as having
43:49
Speaker 3: a lot of money, and more often than not, sometimes
43:53
Speaker 3: it's not about other people taking advantage of you, because
43:56
Speaker 3: they don't realize that that's what's going on. But like
43:59
Speaker 3: you're so visible in your community that lots of people
44:03
Speaker 3: come to you and it's so easy to say yes
44:05
Speaker 3: and you want to and it's so kind and generous.
44:08
Speaker 3: But we also live in a very modern economy that
44:10
Speaker 3: I need you. I'm really sorry, I really need you
44:13
Speaker 3: to have an emergency fund, Like you still have to
44:15
Speaker 3: pay your car regro. We can't be going into debt
44:18
Speaker 3: for these things. So there is a very beautiful balance
44:20
Speaker 3: that we need to find of kinship obligations. But then
44:23
Speaker 3: also like making sure that you're in cup is full,
44:25
Speaker 3: and you were talking about that before, like you can't
44:28
Speaker 3: pour from an empty cup, and you're seeing, you know,
44:30
Speaker 3: mums not even being able to feed themselves because they've
44:33
Speaker 3: basically given it all away, and I just go that
44:36
Speaker 3: human being must be so beautiful. But I also want
44:39
Speaker 3: to be like, girl, please stop, Like we need to
44:42
Speaker 3: have some type of boundary, and it can be really
44:44
Speaker 3: hard to have those conversations.
44:46
Speaker 2: When I was in my early, very very early twenties,
44:48
Speaker 2: left school and started working I dropped out of work
44:51
Speaker 2: a number of times because I was like, I don't
44:53
Speaker 2: see the point because by the time it came payday,
44:56
Speaker 2: I had no money anyway, and I was like, what's
44:58
Speaker 2: going to getting up and going to work? And then
45:01
Speaker 2: I started having to learn how to say no, but
45:04
Speaker 2: to leave. On that note that I had to realize
45:07
Speaker 2: that my kindness was also to some degree, enabling really
45:11
Speaker 2: destructive behavior for other people. And so while for me,
45:15
Speaker 2: I was like, I want to give, and I want
45:16
Speaker 2: to I want to be kind and I want to
45:19
Speaker 2: be generous and share because I know that I'm blessed
45:22
Speaker 2: to be in the position that I meet. And what
45:24
Speaker 2: I didn't understand was yet to some degree I was
45:27
Speaker 2: enabling some unhealthy behaviors and other people and that isn't love.
45:32
Speaker 2: And so that's when I started to learn how to
45:34
Speaker 2: have those healthy boundaries for myself and what did that
45:37
Speaker 2: look like?
45:38
Speaker 3: And that can be really hard, Like that's not just like,
45:40
Speaker 3: oh'll get some boundaries. Like that's a very challenging conversation
45:44
Speaker 3: because I mean the process, Oh yeah, and we could
45:47
Speaker 3: like have this whole conversation. You could go to a
45:49
Speaker 3: financial counselor and like they can give you all these strategies,
45:52
Speaker 3: and then when your aunt comes to ask for money again,
45:54
Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, that's fine, Like you just don't want
45:57
Speaker 3: to have the confrontational conversation. Like these things are challenging.
46:01
Speaker 3: And I think that's why your services are so valid,
46:04
Speaker 3: because you're creating that space and that community where you
46:07
Speaker 3: can have those conversations and be part of it, and
46:10
Speaker 3: it just it makes me so excited that you exist.
46:12
Speaker 3: And I know that we're coming to the end of
46:14
Speaker 3: this episode, but of course I'm going to put all
46:16
Speaker 3: of the details for the First Nation's Foundation and every
46:18
Speaker 3: single resource that we have discussed in this podcast in
46:21
Speaker 3: the show notes for you, Leah, thank you so much
46:25
Speaker 3: for joining us and giving our community just such practical
46:29
Speaker 3: things that they can do with their finances. And guys,
46:32
Speaker 3: if you found this episode helpful, please share it with
46:34
Speaker 3: a friend, and don't forget to subscribe because we've got
46:37
Speaker 3: so many more episodes here to help you get your
46:39
Speaker 3: money sorted and they are all coming your way. Guys,
46:42
Speaker 3: see you next time.
46:43
Speaker 2: Bye.
46:50
Speaker 3: If I shared on She's on the Money is general
46:52
Speaker 3: in nature and.
46:53
Speaker 2: Does not consider your individual circumstances, She's on the Money
46:57
Speaker 2: exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied
47:00
Speaker 2: upon to make an investment or financial decision.
47:03
Speaker 3: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
47:06
Speaker 3: the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
47:10
Speaker 3: your needs. Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are
47:13
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Speaker 3: A b N three two one six four nine two
47:20
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Speaker 3: nine