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Will Your Relationship Last? Insights from a Divorce Attorney with Atty. Sarah Intelligator · Libido Lounge

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Welcome to the libido lounge where we focus on all things love, lust, and libido.
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We believe that fabulous sex is important to health as exercise and good food.
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Hey, everybody.
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Welcome back to another episode of the lounge.
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I'm libido expert and your host, doctor Diane Mueller.
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I am so excited to introduce you to Sarah Intelligater tier today.
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She is a divorce attorney who has turned into a relationship expert.
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And what a cool combination to be talking to couples for so long about all the things that
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they did not make their relationship work.
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I'm just so excited to have you with us today, Sarah.
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There's so many questions I have.
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I know I'm going to want to talk to you for a lot longer than the fifteen minutes we have.
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And let's just orient you to and orient everybody to you.
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Can you tell us a little bit about like what was happening, what you were noticing and being
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a divorce attorney, where all of a sudden, you really got inspired to open the second business
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of working with couples and of helping support relationships?
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Yeah, of course.
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So I have been a divorce attorney for close to twenty years.
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And, I started observing patterns over and over and over in all of these marriages that have
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ended or coming to an end.
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And I started thinking that if I can get to people before they get to my office, if I can
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show them the reason that marriages fail and fall apart or relationships fall apart, then
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maybe I can prevent them from ever setting foot in my office.
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So I wrote a book.
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It's called Live, Laugh, Find True Love.
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And, it kind of breaks these patterns down into six categories and and teaches people what not
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to do by, showing them the mistakes that others have made and repeatedly do make.
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I love it.
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I'm as a functional medicine doctor.
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Everything I do in the world is about the root prevention and all that.
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So I love that you're doing that from a relationship standpoint.
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And let's talk a little bit about, like, your book.
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And I know you had mentioned that there's these bad f words, and I'm sure people want to know
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about what those are and what they mean beyond the, you know, the four letter one.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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Exactly.
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That's the
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big f words here.
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And they're, you know, they're like the fail factors, the six f words.
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And, so these are the reasons that that all relationships, at least from my experience,
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fall apart and what you need to watch out for when you're entering into your own
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relationship.
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So I'll just mention them.
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I won't go into detail into them at this point, but, their fundamental values, meaning people
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don't share fundamental values.
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Fear, foundation, fixing, family, and fairy tale.
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And so those are the patterns.
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So do you feel because I think we probably won't have time to go into all of those today,
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and I know people can get your book into to go into more detail.
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But do you feel like there's one or two of them that are like, oh, these are like, I wonder if,
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like, one calls foundational.
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Like, is there one or two of them?
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They're like, this is like, we have to get this one so important.
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We have to get this one right.
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Yes, absolutely.
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So although the F words are not really listed in any particular order in the book because
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they're really all equally important, I do think that fundamental values is actually the
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most important and the one that you can't really progress into a relationship unless the
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partners share fundamental values.
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So I do list it first, and I do think it is the most important.
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And fundamental values, when I talk about them, they're distinguishable from things like
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fleeting interests.
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Right?
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You might be 20 years old.
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You might love to travel the world, cast off all your worldly possessions.
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But is that necessarily where
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you see yourself when you're
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in your forties or fifties?
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So that might not necessarily be a fundamental value so much as it is a fleeting interest.
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And you're looking for a partner who shares your fundamental values.
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And there are exercises in the book for how to define your own fundamental values so that, you
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know, first of all and foremost, what your own fundamental values are.
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And then you are now on a journey to find a partner who shares those fundamental values
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with you.
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So the question I think that other people might be wondering that I'm definitely wondering is
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what do you recommend then if somebody say they discover they do your work and like, oh, my
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gosh, I know my fundamental values and they're in a long relationship and their partner has
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very, very different fundamental values.
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Is that do you find like that's a deal breaker?
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Is there a way to work with that?
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I don't think it's a deal breaker per se.
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I think it depends how dissonant the fundamental values are.
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I think it depends, how long the couple's been together and and, you know, what they've gone
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through.
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And and maybe a lot of times people think they don't share fundamental values, but the fact
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that they've been together for so long means that they probably do beneath the surface.
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Like they're they're not actually defining what the true fundamental fundamental values are.
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Right.
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But for the most part, I feel that in order to navigate life together in a similar way and
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achieve goals in a similar way and kind of want to live life in a similar way, we need to have
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those fundamental values.
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So, yes, if you if you are in a relationship and you discover that your fundamental values
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are not aligned, it is it is something that you should definitely really consider because it's
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not something that necessarily, is as big of a problem when you're just getting married, just
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the two of you.
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But if you decide to add children to the mix, you know, as problems arise and things come up
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in life, I do think that it can lead to the breakdown of the relationship.
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Yeah.
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That's basically why I'm divorced.
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That's what I saw after ten years of relationship of finally analyzing that and
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being like I mean, it's exactly the way I describe it to people around, like, it's not a
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problem with, like, him or I as people.
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It's that fundamentally, our value system's different.
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So I I really love that you're approaching it that way.
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And then in thinking about, like, dating and when, you know, people are setting up
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relationships and let's say they read your book and they get their fundamental values really
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dialed, do you have advice on, like, you know, when in the relationship they should really
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start having these kind of questions and asking these things and learning that?
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Do you recommend that people actually ask this directly?
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What are your advice?
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What's your advice around that?
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Yeah.
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So, I call it's kind of part and parcel of fundamental values.
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I call it the job interview.
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Dating is a job interview, and there is actually an exercise in the book where you list
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your fundamental value and then you're supposed to come up with a couple of questions to
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ascertain whether your date shares those fundamental values.
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And it doesn't mean that you're just sitting there with this exhaustive laundry list of
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questions on your first or second date.
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Right?
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But it does mean that you kind of have in the back of your mind the questions that you want
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to ask or the things you want to listen for as you do go on a first date, as you do go on a
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second date.
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Date.
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So I think that the entire courtship process from the very first date until you decide to
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commit to the relationship is a job interview.
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You're determining whether this candidate gets the position for the absolutely most important
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job in the entire world, which is your life partner.
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Yeah.
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I really love that.
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And I love that your book is breaking it down to that level.
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And also that it's like I had an image for a second of, I think, a sitcom I saw a while ago
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of, like, somebody, like, looking at their hand for the questions to ask.
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And that's not what we're saying here.
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Right?
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It's just it's really training people, like, especially with all of the matchmaking
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services, it's really training people, just like with being employers, like learning how to
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do a good job interview and finding the right people.
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It's really the same thing.
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It's like dating interview, right?
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You're teaching people how to go on dates
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Well, yeah.
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And I mean, you know, and I say it in the book, but it's like you wouldn't hire a candidate for
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the job unless it's a modeling job or an acting job.
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You wouldn't hire a candidate for a job because that person is good looking or so attractive,
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or we have so much in common.
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Right?
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You're you're you would hire that candidate because the candidate is right for the
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position.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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It makes so much sense.
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And then is there anything else in, you know, the the six s?
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Is there anything else in the success?
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What would you say would be the next most important f if we were to stage them and
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categorize them to focus on?
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I think fear is probably the next most significant just because I find that fear is
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the number one reason relationships fail.
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People stay in relationships because they're afraid that they might not find someone better.
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Or, you know, maybe you're you're getting older, your biological clock is ticking.
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This person is there.
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They'll do.
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Maybe there are certain insecurities that you have around the relationship or around
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yourself.
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And so I think fear is is kind of it keeps us from leaving a relationship and we justify to
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ourselves why we should stay in the relationship, rather than listening to what I
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think is kind of the opposite of fear, which is our intellect, which is our reasonable,
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rational voice.
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So how do you think?
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Because I feel like that's a a really challenging thing for people, especially when
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there's so many so many times when we're dating, we've already been hurt and we've
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already had, you know, that the heartbreak, the repair, all the things that, you know,
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especially if if it's like divorce with children.
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And there can be so much natural fear of almost just like our our bodies and our minds trying
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to protect us, right.
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To protect us from getting hurt.
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So do you have any advice for people on like how to start discerning between what is like,
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you know, what is like, okay, well, my intuition saying like, this person's not right
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versus like, actually, that's just my fear because I don't want to get hurt again or in a
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relationship like my intuition saying I need to leave, but I don't want to because of the fear.
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Like, how do we really begin to tell which is which?
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Like, what advice do you give on that?
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Well, I think that's you hit the nail on the head.
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I think we all have an intuition and we all hear what our intuition is saying.
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I kind of liken it to like Jiminy Cricket.
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Like Pinocchio here is what Jiminy Cricket is saying, but he ignores it and then he ends up
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in a cage, right?
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So we all hear what our intuition is telling us.
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We just shush it and sweep it under the rug because we don't wanna deal with the
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inconvenient thing that happens next, which is that if we listen to our intuition, we have to
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end the relationship.
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So one of the things that I kind of talk about, just to put things in perspective, is I kind of
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approach it from a more like philosophical standpoint.
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Fear is a fight or flight response.
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Fear is the thing that has protected us our whole lives.
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Like, right?
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We we know not to jump into shark infested waters because our fear says, don't do that.
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You'll get eaten up a little hybrid or you'll get hurt.
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Don't touch a hot stove.
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You're going to get hurt, right?
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And that's instantaneous in the moment to protect you in that moment.
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But fear doesn't really protect us long term.
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Right?
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Fear doesn't it's not looking out for what's going to happen to us ten years from now,
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twenty years from now.
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Fear is really it's a very short term response.
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Our intelligence, our intellect, our intuition, that is looking to protect us long term.
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Right?
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And so if we think about fear and, you know, and the hard thing is that because fear has
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kept us safe, we learn to trust it.
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But fear hasn't really kept you safe long term.
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It's kept you safe in the short term.
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And so we think about this as a more long term proposition, which obviously a committed
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relationship is.
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We have to think fear isn't my friend.
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Fear is just kind of, this warm safety blanket that's keeping me protected in the instant
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moment, but it's not looking out for me long term.
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My intellect, my intelligence is.
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And it takes a lot of self reflection, a lot of strength, a lot of bravery and courage to take
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a step back and say, yeah, I really wanna be in this relationship.
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I don't wanna go through a breakup.
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I am afraid of these things, But people should be a lot more afraid of divorce.
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They should be a lot more afraid of, you know, dividing assets and sharing custody of their
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children.
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And these aren't things they're thinking about when they're going on a first or second date or
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they're in a, you know, five month relationship or whatever.
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They're not thinking about sharing custody of their would be children, but they should be.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I appreciate that.
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And I like that the distinction between short and long term thinking.
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I think we use it as humans.
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We do this so often in health with, like, all of our decisions, health and mental, emotional
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and relational stuff.
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It's so easy to be like, even simple things like, oh, I'm going to have chocolate cake and
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just one day, and then one day turns into two.
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And the next thing we know, it's five and years go by, and then we have diabetes.
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Right?
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And so it's so easy sometimes to just see that short term without playing that long term out.
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And so I appreciate the strength in that too.
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Are you are you then guiding people with, like, certain questions to ask themselves as well to
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help distinguish or like what's can you can you speak a little more granularly on, like, that
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distinction between, okay, well, long term is this intuition?
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Is this fear?
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Because because I can also see, right, like long term, say we're in a long term
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relationship or say we're starting a relationship.
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We see it's long term.
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There's also that part, I think, of humans where it's like, especially if we're excited
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for that person and excited to be married or committed, there can be like that.
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That excitement of like that desire can also almost overwhelm that intuition.
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So how do we distinguish also from like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm just this has got to be the
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person I'm so excited.
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I want to be in relationship and ultimately choosing the wrong person.
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Is that where some of these other f's come in?
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Or can you talk a little bit about that?
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Absolutely.
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So, that kind of speaks to fairy tale a little bit that we have this notions, very
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romanticized notion of marriage and the wedding day and the proposal and all of these things
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that, you know, social media obviously doesn't help that along.
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But, you know, that that understanding that in a fairy tale, they get married and they live
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happily ever after, but we never delve into what the happily ever after really looks like.
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And there's this whole lifetime of the happily ever after.
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And I always think that, a signpost of a good relationship isn't how you work, you know, how
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how things are when they're wonderful and good.
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It's how you work through obstacles and things when they're bad and not not necessarily bad
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between the two people, but like when life throws stuff your way?
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Have you worked through it?
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And that kind of speaks a little bit to the F word foundation, which I break down into five
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pillars, which are honesty, trust, teamwork, respect, and communication.
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So that kind of falls within the ambit of teamwork.
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Right.
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I talk about how infatuation is sort of like these like butterflies in your stomach and how
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they take over everything.
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And that is not something that should be relied on.
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Like you're not in a in a place to make rational decisions until you've distinguished
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between that infatuation, those butterflies and and kind of reality.
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And you've really grounded yourself and you've settled down from that.
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But it is hard because our primary urges, right, our primal urges are to procreate.
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Right?
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It's like that's one of our biggest urges in life.
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And so it comes as no surprise that we are infatuated when we meet someone new, like just
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the feelings, the hormones that are raging through our bodies.
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Right.
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But we still always have our intelligence.
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We still can like we're able to function in life, right?
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We still go to work.
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We still
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are able
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to get our responsibilities done.
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So we still have the ability to take a step back and say, so infatuated right now.
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Like, I'm so obsessed.
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We've all had that feeling.
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But I I am recognizing that it is that, and I'm not in a position to make decisions for the
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rest of my life at this very moment.
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I'm having fun, which is great.
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Have fun.
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Dating should be fun.
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But, like, just know that your your intellect still is there.
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Yeah.
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It's a really important distinction.
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And I wanna go here to one thing that you said that I think is it just comes up so, I think,
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frequently, and it's under one of your apps.
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I forget which f you said it was under, which is communication.
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Which f was that under?
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Foundation.
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Foundation.
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Yeah.
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So are there any then foundational?
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We can we can play with that.
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Were there any foundational communication things that I do feel like there's a lot of
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different techniques out there.
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You know, like love language books talks about different things that are related to it.
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Nonviolent communication, there's attachment theories.
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There's a lot of different things out there and models that really speak to how we innately
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communicate differently and how to, you know, how to really work with this.
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Are there any, like, foundational, like, one or two?
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Like, these are the things that have to be in place from a communication standpoint.
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I think communication needs to be open, honest, transparent.
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But like the one example I love to give and this is such a cliche, but, like a woman puts
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on an outfit and she's in a heterosexual relationship and she goes and she asks her, you
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know, her boyfriend says, you know, how do I look?
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What do you think this dress?
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And he goes, Oh, you look great.
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But he doesn't actually think she looks great.
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Like, maybe he doesn't think that right?
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Why is he saying that one?
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He's afraid to speak the truth because she might react.
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Maybe she has in the past.
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She's conditioned him to lie to her.
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Maybe he doesn't wanna hurt her feelings, whatever it is.
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Right?
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But what if he said, you know, it's not the most flattering dress that I've seen on you.
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I think I've seen you look better.
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It's not you.
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It's the dress.
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But like, you know, I don't think it looks great on you.
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Right?
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And what if she got super angry at him and starts yelling at him and like, you know, gives
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him the silent treatment or whatever she does?
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Right.
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Well, she's teaching him that in the future, he should be dishonest with her.
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He should not communicate openly and honestly.
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And if she asked the question, she should be seeking an honest answer, not just, you know,
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fishing for a compliment.
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And so I think that there's, a way that we communicate with each other that's a dance.
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Like we teach each other what is okay to say and what isn't.
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And when we negatively reinforce certain types of communication that is honest and transparent
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and open, we're causing a breakdown in communication in the relationship.
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And I think it happens so often.
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So I just urge people to make sure that when you're communicating, if you're afraid of your
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partner's reaction or response, maybe you're not in the right relationship.
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Communication needs to be open and honest, respectful, transparent.
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There's a way of saying things that's respectful and way of saying things is
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disrespectful.
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But, you know, but be honest.
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Yeah.
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I appreciate so much of what you say there.
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It's a it's reminding me also of like something I talk about in my work, which is don't fake
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orgasms.
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Right?
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We're teaching partners.
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It's like this a different version of the same thing.
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It's Oh, yeah.
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Eventually teaching partners that we like what what what they're doing, and that's gonna get
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more of that thing then.
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So it's just another example.
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And I really appreciate the questions component of this too, because I think so often so often
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we ask questions as humans and we don't actually want to know the truth.
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So it's like that whole concept of, like, we ask a question and you want you know, you want
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a good relationship, then you have to be open to whatever that answer is.
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And if you're not prepared for it, then maybe the answer is not asking the question is what
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would you what would you how would you comment on that?
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Well, I think you should be able to ask the question.
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But I think you need to be prepared for the response.
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And again, I think that both partners need to be giving honest answers, but they need to be
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giving them in a respectful way.
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Like, there's a way of saying, hey, you know, that dress doesn't look that great on you.
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You know, I've seen you look better, right?
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That's honest.
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That's respectful.
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Versus like, you look so horrible, But you're saying the same thing, right?
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But it's the way you're saying it.
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And, the way that we say things to each other then breeds a reaction.
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And it sets into trajectory, a whole chain reaction of where the relationship is going to
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go and how these two people are going to interact with each other down the road, whether
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they are going to respect each other, whether they're going to start resenting each other.
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Right.
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And it's all centered around this communication.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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We've packed so much into these twenty minutes.
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It's so good.
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I think there's so many different layers and things to consider and definitely set a good
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foundation.
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I want to make sure everybody knows how to get a hold of you and the really unique, I just,
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it's just pretty amazing.
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The background you have to be able to do this work that you're doing.
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I
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want to make sure people know how to get a hold of you.
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And we'll talk about that.
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But before we do real fast, is there like one, like final concluding, like if you could wrap
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all your years of a divorce attorney and relationship expert down into, like, a couple
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of sentences of advice, is there anything you would distill it down to to tell people
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know your worth and don't settle.
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Beautiful.
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Yeah, that's really perfect.
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Well, how can people get a hold of you?
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So they can find me on Instagram at Sarah dot a dot intelligator dot esq.
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They can also find me at my website, which is lafamilylawpractice.com.
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And they can also get my book, which I'm dropping plates here.
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You can get my book, Live, Laugh, Find True Love wherever books are sold.
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And, hopefully you will never need me in the future.
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And we'll have all of you all of that in and Sarah's show notes for you guys.
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And thank you so much for your time today.
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This has been wonderful.
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I love your book.
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I will get myself a copy and thank you so much for the work you're doing and for being here
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with us.
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Thanks for having me.
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I appreciate
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it.
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Well, that concludes another episode of The Lounge, you guys.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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This is Doctor.
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Diane signing off, reminding you to always stay sexy, always stay classy, and always remember
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to be a little badassy.
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See you next time.
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Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
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Please don't keep me a secret.
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Please share this with your friends.
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You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibido.com.