Latest / Being Different Together / #41 - What Your Legs Can Teach You

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#41 - What Your Legs Can Teach You · Being Different Together

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we welcome them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't about being right.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's about being different.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Together.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is episode number 41 of being different together.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck is that?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: My good friends.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I think that that was from the opening of Aladdin, now that I think about it.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Of Aladdin?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's this whole intro.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I now I'm gonna have to look it up.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had the soundtrack.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was like one of my first CDs.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Robin Williams is the genie.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: He is.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think he's also the voice of like the storyteller in the beginning.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's like the storyteller.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can almost hear it in my head.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had like the whole thing memorized as a kid.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's cute.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um there was a lot of performing, never had a friend like me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've never had a friend like you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to do the dance for you, I guess.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've never had a friend like you.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking before we started the podcast about gratitude that we get to do a podcast together.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I was thinking about when you said that was um, you know, the kind of the evolution of our conversations, and today we're gonna talk more about the body, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and we're gonna talk specifically about legs.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Legs.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is the leg episode.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's got legs.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep thinking about um a Christmas story and the lamp.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep every time every time we've talked about this episode, I've thought about the lamp from a Christmas story.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the leg lamp.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it so evocative?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, legs.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, legs.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna do an episode about legs.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I like the saying it's got legs.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of my I say that a lot.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like legs.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like it can move forward, right?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is what that means.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because some of this is some of this is inspired by um Alexander Loewen's work and bioenergetics, which we talked about in episode number 39, I think.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um and how language, how how body is used how the body words are used in language figuratively, but then sometimes they also have um actual literal meanings as well.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with like legs being weak in the weak in the knees.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes you actually get weak in the knees, and sometimes you're describing a feeling.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's just to to go with the symbolism and the language, um, what about um oh not having a leg to stand on?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Getting a leg up.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Running away.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, running away.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And th we we talked about like taking a stand last week about feet.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um then I think that that that also applies here.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then not being able to stand something.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, where where do you want to begin?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know um well you've kind of done some research, I've done some research, and we're gonna see where we where we're I yeah, I mean so I I mean this is for me what's fun about like these conversations with you is that we circle around these topics from the about using the lens of the things that you and I are both interested in.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm always thinking about like, okay, how does this how do legs relate to relationality?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: To relationship.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: How do legs relate to being in relationship?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I was actually thinking about just the process of being able to move toward.
• 4:50
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I I've done this exercise sometimes with couples that's a psychodrama exercise where I'll I'll position the couple in opposite corners of the room, right?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then without with without them use uh the instruction is without using any words, invite your partner to either come closer to you or to back away from you.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this sort of like, you know, people extend their arms and wave people in or they push them away.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: But in all of that process, their legs are involved, you know, their legs are moving them forward and moving them backward.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking about that, and I was just thinking about uh you know, like just the risk of an invitation to a conversation.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, would you like to talk about this?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Can we if somebody says to you, can we have a conversation about this?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can we have a conversation about this?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Does your stomach just like drop out?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean Yeah, you know, when you and I first got together, uh Listen, we need to talk.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, What I do?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my god, bagels run sale in public.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, that's what?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just hang it.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't give me the ramp up.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but like inviting somebody into a conversation, inviting somebody into a dialogue like you and I, we have a standing dialogue, you know, where we do ever on Thursday mornings.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's more arid diet about these academic content, you know, concepts.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also, I mean, I find these conversations evocative for me.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm learning stuff along the way, too.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I was thinking about it in terms of relationality, and then and then I was also, yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just say one thing about relationality and legs?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had not thought about this, which is why I love talking about these things.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, legs require relationality because there's two of them.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, it it's like the two become one.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you go up the body, you have two feet, you know, in a regular body.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, two legs, two knees, and then it gets to the hips, the pelvis, the torso, and it becomes one thing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these legs branch out from underneath us, and also it's very difficult to walk on one leg.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean we become one at the trunk at the pelvis, right?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like legs require relationality to each other.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: To be able to move forward, we either need uh two legs or one leg and something else.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or wheels.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: This like propulsion.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we need two wheels at least.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking about like unity, duality, that that play, how that plays out in the body, how that allows us to move.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could probably continue to think about this for the next 24 hours.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: That that that thought had not occurred to me, but it's just interesting you bring up relationality and the the the required relationality of legs.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in traditional Chinese medicine, um there are six major channels, so that we call it channels or meridians.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just to if you're not familiar with this listener, the channels or meridians are these kind of pathways.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: You don't see them on the body, um, but they are mapped nonetheless, and they were mapped by long-term meditators and practitioners of uh ancient, you know, sort of like meditation in China, actually.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from the uh history, the historical basis of traditional Chinese medicine has the same grandmother as um Kung Fu.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so there were martial applications of those techniques that were fighting applications, and then there were also healing applications.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um so the channels uh were m uh were visualized as these kind of highways or meridian, meridian lines, you can think of it that way, like we have meridians on the earth, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: That are all over the human body and that uh have their entry and exit points in in various organs, that they're related to various organs, and that they control the qi for the entire body.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sort of like this highway of energy that's bioelectricity that's flowing through the body.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's six of them in the legs, and the ones that are in the legs are uh are really interesting in terms of what we're talking about here.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um so the stomach and spleen meridian runs through the legs, and that's about nourishment and digestion, like taking in what life gives us.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and each of these meridians is also associated with an emotion in Chinese medicine.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: So interestingly, the emotion associated with the spleen is like worry or rumination.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Can you think of it that way more so?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the kidney channel is in the legs and the bladder channel.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's you know, the emotion associated with the kidney is fear.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: When people are really scared, they wet their pants, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's the obvious, you can see that immediately.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um we have other ideas about the kidney too, and I wanna I don't want to make this an acupuncture lecture, as I said, but it's um you know, you're talking about your reserve when you're talking about the kidney.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're talking about uh what roots you to the ground and um your endurance, your survival, really.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of you know, in like a hierarchy of needs or whatever, it's like really, really basic.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in Chinese medicine we say that your your primordial qi is stored in your kidney um and you only get so much.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, you only get so much of that one.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then the liver and the gallbladder channels also run through the legs.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, so that m so that's associated with the elements of wood in five element theory and the liver and the gallbladder is essentially direction, decision, movement, flexibility.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: The the the emotion associated with the liver is anger.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's um it's funny.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: My teachers had a saying that uh if someone was very timid, they would say, is this is like a Chinese idiom.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: This doesn't make sense in English, but they would say that person has a weak call bladder.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um so that you know, this like relationship between anger and it giving us ability to set boundary and move forward and say, like uh no.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is the difference between stress and distress?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Distress is a feeling like you can't there's nothing you can do about the discomfort that you're in.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas a stressor is just you know, you can handle it positively, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can uh find the pleasant path, you can take the hard things easy to go back to um intentionality.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that that I do feel like aligns with the things that I was reading about the legs, um, which I feel like you mentioned, some of which you mentioned either while we hit record or before we started recording.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, the the legs well these I like the idea about the these emotions associated with the legs, and then the expression.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of my understanding of bioenergetics is is really allowing for the expression of emotions to take place so that we can move that energy out.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so with legs, yeah, you can move toward li there's an inherent power in the legs.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's some of the largest muscles of the body, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it will, you know, there there's that thing that people say about in the things that are different between humans and plants.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we can move.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: We can move, we can literally move ourselves away from something that we don't want to be around, we can move towards something we do want to be around.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what are we moving towards?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: What are we moving away from?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Having that power, um, the power to like kick or this idea of reserves I'm thinking about with the kidneys, like having the power to defend ourselves or get away, go towards, all that sorts of thing, or to take a stand, you know, to to stand up.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the other interesting thing is the knees, the joint of the knees, because that is about flexibility.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Knees are about flexibility.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, one of the things that at Alexander Lowen would look at with um patients, and that I'll do when I'm working, especially doing breath work with people, is are their knees habitually locked?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you did marching band.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did lock your knees.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: I did marching band.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You learn that first year that when you are standing at attention, and maybe people in the military go through this as well, um, do not lock.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: We got a whole lecture on do not lock your knees because so-and-so three years ago fainted.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you will because it stops that circulation.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's interesting, the locking of the knees is interesting because it feels like you're being stronger.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it's actually stronger to have a slight bend in the knees because it gives you more flexibility, it gives you more ability to respond to what's actually happening around you.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and the blood flows better, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean we've talked about the idea that the muscles of the calf are like the heart of the lower body.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they call the the calf the second heart.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it helps to, you know, one of the one of the challenges of a body that's vertical and living in a world where there's gravity is how do you get the blood back up to the heart.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so the muscles of the legs, particularly the calves, allow that to happen, but you have to have your calves contracting and relaxing, contracting and relaxing.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so locking your knees and staying in a static position does not allow that to happen.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I l I like this juxta juxtaposition between, you know, being able to be flexible, that flexibility is a part of strength.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I don't I try and kind of stay out of the manosphere, you know, in terms of like pod listening.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: The pro pods.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I I tend to sort of stay away from that.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've had a period where I got sucked in.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I got sucked into Rogan.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all do.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think like Huberman.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: In 2020, like I got a little sucked into into Rogan every now and then.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and you're entertainers and then I you know.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a whole Dak Shepherd armchair expert season.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's all good.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I love my bros.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and um and I'm very grateful to all of you bros in the manosphere who are out there, especially those that are listening to this podcast for sharing the good word with people and being so enthused about health and getting jacked.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Bro, but do you lift?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Bro, but do you lift?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um everyone it seems like pr I don't know how many times I've tuned in and seen this same statistic or this same bit of data, this little data point brought up over and over again.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: That um the biggest measure of longevity is your qu your quad strength.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I w uh and does that relate to the uh another measure of longevity of being able to get up from the floor without using your hands.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Assumably.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that thing about quad strength and legs and um okay, I'm gonna hit you with another little language thing.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you understand?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Have I have I oh no, no, no, no, no.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know where?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anything like that?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, my dad had this whole thing about sitting.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, your dad had a whole thing about sitting.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I have said it on the pod, but I will say it again.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: He would say, I can't stand sitting.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: He had a whole bit.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I can't stand sitting.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now he spent his career with a 45-minute commute sitting in a car to work at a computer.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: This was way before standing desks.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another 45-minute home commute home.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he had his lazy boy.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there were more sitting.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now he did his morning walks.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: He, you know, he he wasn't completely sedentary, but he worked a job where that's what you do, you know.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And after a while, he started to realize, oh, this is not good for me.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stand sitting.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I can't stand it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then he would and then he would have this thing where he would say, Over sitting is understanding.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Was it you or him that said, I'm taking a stand against sitting?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was part of his bed.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Was that part of his bidding?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking a stand against sitting.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember when you and I were dating, you said that to me at one point, and I was like, Oh, I'm so trying to turn.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I'm so smart.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I because I got really into nutritious movement.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, we're both sitting right now.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say I was.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was just thinking I'm gonna stand up because uh I can.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's funny, the thing about, you know, it just I'm just gonna go down this merry road for a moment.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: The the these kind of cultural um ideas about, you know, we were talking about foot binding in the last episode and sort of cutting yourself off in order to.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: You stand at an event into the culture.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was thinking about like, okay, aesthetically, like, what is sexy in a leg?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, legs are a sex object, right?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I was thinking about okay, the sexualization of the road to the promised land.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is part of that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is that not why they're sexy?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I never even thought of it like that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see that pan shot with like a woman high heels going all the way up?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you keep going up, you know where you're going.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: To the place where to become one.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: The pelvis.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, totally.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about the pelvis next week.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: But look, when I was young, ideas about what was a sexy leg, I've noticed I've watched that change.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: So in the 70s, women were not all cut up and muscular in their legs the way that they, the way that you see legs.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, athleticism now, it has moved into an area where like if someone has an athletic leg and it evidences that, that that's a sign of class.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a sign of having enough time to work out that long.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, if you if you can afford to be waxed, have a spray tan, um, have highlights in your hair, all of these status symbols.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Part of that is is looks maxing has to do with you know what's attractive in a leg now.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember like I you know, when I in the 70s, go look at pictures of women and bikinis in the 70s.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: They were just thin and they were beautiful, but they were not athletic looking the way that they are now.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: You just that was not it.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um that was not what was attractive.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: But then how about like the thigh gap ears?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I remember the thigh gap ears.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: The thigh gap years.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that's what is that's that's the the desired leg, is that if you you know, if you stand with your feet together that you can see through them.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so anyway, I was I was thinking about all that stuff.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and then I was thinking about you know, people get like leg lifts and calf implants.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is a yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've had male clients who got calf implants.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because they had those puny little male legs.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: They like have these big old pecs.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it was tiny, itty, pitty little calves.
• 21:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have naturally muscular calves and it's Oh yeah, you'll never need no, I won't need a calf implant.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: You could donate.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Damn girl, what happened to your calves?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't know.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Donated them.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I donated them to uh calves of love.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: This guy over here, calves of love.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin's got my calves now.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor has them.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Really the what I was thinking about with the whole sitting thing was how early in my career as a therapist I wouldn't give myself permission to get out of my chair.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard you mentor younger therapists and say, it's okay to move.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Get up out of your chair.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know any therapist I treat, I'm like, mm-hmm.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And every like every old therap, most old therapists that you see, they they just look like skinny little puppy vultures.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Have they curled over?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're like you know, head forward, heads way forward.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, from all that leaning forward and listening in a chair and the body just being kind of like your all head and whatever.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: The body's just sitting in the chair still.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember thinking that I can't.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you cross one of your legs all the time, it'll it'll really skew up your hips.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and your lower back too.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So getting up and getting out of it out of the chair was um, you know, just just mind-blowing for me.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And still in my office, I sit on the floor when I see clients a lot, most of the time.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, for some of my clients, they're quite surprised to see me, you know, like just like I'll just like throw a cushion down and sit down on the floor.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, but I'm on the couch and you're on the floor.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I know, but we're looking at each other right in the eyes.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: My couch is very low, and I don't feel like I'm sitting at your feet or anything.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not, you know, it's not like you're up on the throne.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm far enough away that it it's okay.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but people are like, what are you doing?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when I'm sitting on the floor.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: When I first started noticing, oh wow, I probably said a lot, and I started m just learning more about all that stuff.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I then went to events, and I think we've been to events where, you know, it's some event and people are sitting, and I will choose to either stand in the back of the room, which which really seems to make other people uncomfortable.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like then I will have person after person come up to me, offer me their chairs.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I just start to just say that I have back pain even though I don't.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: You should tell them you're in the FBI.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm working right now.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm working right now.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So down.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or I'll sit on the floor at these uh these events just to reduce the amount of time that I'm sitting in a chair.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um well the chair just like locks all your chi right in your pelvis.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've sat in enough chairs.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's it's like it just you just get stuck there energetically.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting the cultural implications that that me not sitting in a chair seems to make other people uncomfortable.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it kind of makes me think about the footbinding.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: The thing the things we we do we do to fit in.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my point.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I thought in order to fit in as a therapist, I had to sit there and look like some sort of combination of the Buddha and Jane Paulie.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like some I'm a news anchor that is also simultaneously your mother and spiritual who doesn't move, uh-huh.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Who gives you all of her attention without ever moving or having a need of her own.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's fucking nuts, dude.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: How many times did you just let an itch itch?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So many times.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so many times.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: How many sneeze it's a little bit more?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I'm like the seasoned zen practitioner, so I can sit still for a really long time.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I was in marching band.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can stay I can be still for a very long time.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes that's not good for me.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying that it might not be good for the client for me to be that available, that present, that because that's a lot of what good therapy is, is that I'm really present for people.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, so many people have conversations, but they're not present.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really present with a person.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so really being there, that's not what I'm talking about.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about my own, my own agency, like my being able to understand, being able to get up.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just telling my own story around this.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and then you know what that made me think of in terms of stories?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh The Little Mermaid.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we should totally do that.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: We should totally do that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, do we have a story to to go out on?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, do you remember the story of The Little Mermaid?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: It came out in 1991 to me.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first soundtrack.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: A whole new That's a ladder, babe.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, it's not.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: It is?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: A whole new world?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's um Magic Carpet Ride.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, no.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's under the sea.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Under the sea.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Under the sea.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that she's saying when she's like, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna be with the people up.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Singing and dancing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna be.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So she's a mermaid area.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, part of your world.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: It has world in it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's called part of your world.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she wants to belong.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to belong.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then there's this uh She's gotta pay the price.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's Ursula.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's Ursula.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And Ursula gives her uh gives her the power.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: She gives her legs.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: But then she takes her voice.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this idea of agency, legs and agency, I think, is kind of interesting because the legs do give us agency.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: They really, really do.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what else does?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's our voice.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very like lower body, upper body.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost Cartesian in the way that that um the story is told.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um one of the things that Loan talks about with legs is like, you know, legs, being in your legs, people who are very intellectual will s sometimes be all up in their head.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: They'll be very smart, but they're not grounded.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're not they're not in their bodies.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know if that sounds familiar to you.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: You standing there with your shoulders up, you're like, I'm lifting, you're like lifting yourself up out of your body.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, being able to be in our in our lower body, being able to inhabit our lower body.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's also similar associations like with feet where it's like a little bit gross, a little bit disgusting, you know, it's close to where we poop, it's it's actually on the ground, it's actually in what is going on here in this world, not what's la d-da in our heads, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the voice is much more closer to the head.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I feel like there's in that story between it's like either your legs or your voice.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to be able to move around and have power in that way, but not be able to advocate?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want agency without being able to advocate for yourself?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you want to be able to advocate for yourself but have no agency?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't want that choice.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: We need I think that that's maybe maybe that's part of the the moral or the meaning in the story is that we need both.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: We need both.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to Ariel in the in the Disney thing at the end?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: How does she know it's so bad?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: How does she end up with the prince?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even remember.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Does she like spend part of her time as a mermaid and part of her time on land and somehow she gets her voice back?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean No, there's something, there's some somebody's gonna be yelling at us on this podcast because I can't really remember the full details.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember some scene where they're getting married on a boat, yeah, and somehow the witch or the Ursula is outed because I think she becomes human also and like falls in love with the prince.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she turns herself into a human and tries to get the prince away from yeah.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow that doesn't happen.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't remember.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember there's this supposedly there's this part in the scene when they're getting married where um the priest uh gets boner, and so that does not happen.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's a Disney film.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these weird Easter eggs in Disney films.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you know this.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've seen the clickbait.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: The priest does not get a boner.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's a one scene where where the bulge in his pants gets a little bit bigger.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember rewinding it, rewinding it, and trying to find this place in there.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all I can remember from the end of the little merm.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Dude.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't even believe this is where we ended up.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot believe.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody out there is listening to this being like, I've seen it, and somebody else is being like, I cannot believe.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, either way, the story comes to resolution, and if it's a Disney story, I'm sure it ends happily.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I, you know, it's it's it's like she she must come to realize that what what I remember is that she she makes peace with the fact that she's a mermaid.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's what I think I'm remembering.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working this out.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or does she become or does she yeah, you oh good, you're looking it up.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Jack.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Jack.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, okay, so while you're looking that up, I mean, also last week we told the story of the red shoes.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the prince destroys Ursula with the sunk the with the sunken ship's bowsprit.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: King Triton is restored and Ariel becomes permanently human to marry Eric.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Ariel becomes human.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So Ursula gets defeated by Eric.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like somehow she's outed.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: But this, you know, does not say.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we'll have to uh maybe maybe we'll do an addendum.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should watch it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, the red shoes too, and legs and feet.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the dancing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the the moral for the story for me with all of this is just remembering to be in my lower body.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, remembering to like actually feel what it feels like to stand.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually feel what it feels like to bend my knees, to squat.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing some squats the other day, just air squats for fun.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, oh, I could do this really fast and just do it, but not actually feel it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or I could like feel like actually I I was like going through just actually feeling what it is that I'm feeling in my body.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I think this is part of why it's good to give our minds a break.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so easy for me to just stay in my head.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I've been doing some weeding since it got cooler outside, and that feels like that gets me more in my body.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm bending down, I'm assuming different positions, I'm using the power of my body to pick up things.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like outside thinking about whatever.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like working on a thing.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in Chinese medicine, we say if your liver is a little bit stagnant, the best thing you can do is move move your legs.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's some exercises, yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so it move j it courses the energy through the legs, and that's why I think people feel better after they take a walk or they take a run or they work out.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: You feel better, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: You feel you feel emotionally better.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we we don't think that that's because you get in dolphins.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Indolphins.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't think that that's because you get I don't know if you remember the book.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: You remember the book postcards from the edge?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Carrie Fisher.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's Carrie Fisher's book.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's fantastic.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Meryl Streep plays the character in that that's based on her.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh there's this woman in it who says, I'm just in it for the endolphins.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Meryl Streep is like uh rolling her eyes.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we don't traditional Chinese medicine doesn't look at it like that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we think that the qi is flowing more in in your legs at that point, and you're doing something to make that happen.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where the martial applications of movement and direct manipulation of the body in order to control the body energy.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is Tai Chi, Qigong, and yoga.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, the idea behind those movements, and there's so many yogic movements, just in look at all of Asia.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, it's like depending on any country that you look at, they all have an interesting martial application of moving in order to keep the energy body healthy and the emotional body healthy.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I and so you know, then being wounded in the leg is a thing, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was thinking about stories about wounds, wounds to the leg because, well, you know, my mom um lost one of her legs when she was very young.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So stories like this tend to really be compelling for me personally.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I I have just a personal, a very personal connection to to this particular topic.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and having kind of like myself learned how to walk by watching someone walk most of the time who had a prosthetic leg.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, coming into my own legs has been a really uh evocative and and um kind of like process for me because I have pretty muscular strong legs, but I often don't inhabit them.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: We talked a little bit about this last week with the Paz Cavitus with your your feet.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like your feet don't entirely, it's it's it's kind of like you're being held up.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like the the marinette, the marionette is like just barely on the floor.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And every time it moves, it just floats a little bit above the floor.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this idea of inhabiting your own legs.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that having known you and having known your mom, and not in my life knowing um really anybody else that I was close with that had umitation.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally, has made me think about all this stuff a lot more.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot more.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the thing in my mom's case was that her her surgery was so high that she I mean, she can stand on one leg.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: She can stand on one leg pretty good.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's a hell of a hopper.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: And when she was younger, her upper body strength's awesome.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I remember when I was young, we lived in a townhouse, and I'd just hear her upstairs hopping.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'd hear it on the ceiling.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: My mom hopping, you know, from the bed to the bathroom and be like, oh, mom's up, because she didn't want to use her crutches, she'd just hop into the bathroom.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so she, you know, moved, but of course, as she's gotten older, it's become more of an issue.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I you know, too, I was thinking about like there are all of these really great, you know, myths about wounds to the leg.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um like for oh I don't know like Achilles' heel.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Achilles' heel, sure.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: That just came to me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: What about Jacob?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: What about Jacob?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Jacob wrestles with the angel all night long, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's wrestling with God.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he wrestles all night, and then ultimately he's struck in the hip.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And after his confrontation with God, he becomes Israel, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he leaves the encounter permanently.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's permanently changed, but he now and now he has a limp, right?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he ends up with a wound.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he becomes Israel.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: The the the limp is in his leg.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he so he encounters something greater than himself.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: He wrestles with it, he survives, and then he's blessed.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: But you never walk the same.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And this thing about how do you walk through life?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how am I how am I walking through life?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think for some of us the the limp is visible and for some of us it's not.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're saying like that we all have we all have a limp.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: In some way or another.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's it's actual, whether it's meta metaphorical.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's come up with me with having some of this um Achilles tendonitis.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when it's acting up, I got a little bit of a limp.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it does change how I walk through the world.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if I really think about it, I think it's also changed a little bit of my psychological orientation as well.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, I've been pretty blessed in my life to not have a whole lot of pain, to not have a whole, you know, to have to be pretty mobile and able.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I've worked with enough bodies to know that that's, you know, probably gonna change throughout my lifetime.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the experience of that changing is very um eye-opening.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's like, I don't know.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm assuming that it'll continue to get better, and it's not like a permanent enter injury or anything like that, but it also is just reminding me that like, oh, the longer you're on this planet, the more these are gonna come up.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that sort of invincibility that I had in my like late 20s, maybe early 30s, like is uh is leaving a building.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean you're you're solidly in the second half of life.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and so it does literally change how I walk through life.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess is my point.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a physical thing, but then there's also I mean it it changes what I choose to do with my time because I'm now aware that time is limited supply, and I may not always feel good in my body, and that that's a reality.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So this is another part of the legs, and the closer to the ground when we're when we're talking about the body and the closer to the ground we are, we're really talking about what's happening here and now in material reality.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can we be okay with it?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do we be okay with it?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do we m move through it, move with it, move beyond it?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas as we as we start to go up the body in subsequent episodes, you'll see that that's you know, it's like, well, wouldn't that always be the case?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always the case, actually, with other with other areas and and what they mean symbolically.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know the um the Greek god Hephaestus?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do not, and I Hephaestus?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: He was thrown from Olympus.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of Zeus's kids, and he's thrown from Olympus, or maybe he's Zeus's brother.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, Zeus gets gets mad at him, and I can't remember if it's because he's born disabled or he just does something to piss Zeus off.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'd have to go and look that up.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: But he gets thrown out of Olympus and then he has this limp.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um he's always disabled and limping, and uh he becomes the divine craftsman.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you know, he's he's like the he's the Mason.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: So like it that embrace of I love that story because you have a God with a disability, and and we're made in God's image, I think.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: So physical difference, you know, it's it's it's cool.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it kind of reminds me, I feel like there's a little bit of a we could maybe even do a whole episode at some point of the like the archetype of disability or something.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it reminds me of the book Clan of the Cave Bear.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: The first book of that Earth Children's series.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a series from I don't know, the eighties, nineties, uh for sure.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's historical fiction um that takes place in time of when humans and Neanderthals um cohabited the earth, and there's a orphaned human that gets adopted by a clan of Neanderthals, and that's what the whole first book is about.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: She when she's adopted into the family, the Neanderthals totally don't want her because they don't really like humans.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the this brother and sister take her in, and the sister is like the herbalist healer of the clan.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I forget what there was a name for it, and then the brother Kreb, it's Isa is the the woman.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: The brother Kreb has a limp and is deformed in some way.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember if it's I feel like it's like maybe like a leg and an arm, but he has some pretty severe physical deformities, but he's the shaman, basically.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like goes to the other worlds in visions, you know, so it's like with disability comes ability.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in a similar way where it's like if someone's blind, then their hear hearing is like incredible.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I totally now I totally have a cat like literally laying on top of me.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: That Jack never does never get in your lap in today's.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, he's a lap cat.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's more of a belly cat.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's just a making he's he's being he's he knows what he's doing.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: He'd make a trouble.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: He makes a bass gas.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's making trouble.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's making trouble.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean, I think just to kind of wrap it up, what I would say is like, you know, listener, if you're interested in working with your own legs.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I just need to make a plug for thick thighs to save lives.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thick thighs save lives.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, don't be go, don't be, don't be trying to get no thigh gap.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, girls.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Give me some games.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Don't waste your time.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that what are you moving towards?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not maybe necessarily what it like symbolize, although that's one place to go with the the question to ask yourself.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, what are you moving towards?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: What are you and then what are you moving away from?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: And where might you be refusing to go?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like where you're stuck.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Where you what are you moving towards?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Enlightenment.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that gives like an orientation, I feel like.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, I have a North Star.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so much more basic.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're like lunch.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Moving towards lunch.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that that could no, I was I I'm thinking I'm moving towards being done with this fucking edition.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know what we're moving towards right now?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Being done with this podcast.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right, y'all.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, think about it, take some time this week to think about what is it that you're moving towards and what are you moving away from, and are your legs in good shape to take you there, you know?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do your leg do your legs need a little love?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if your leg if you if you don't like your legs, freaking get over it.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're the only ones you got, and and they're beautiful.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need a thigh gap for that.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: You got dimples and you know varicose veins and all listen, I see a lot of legs, yeah, and they're all perfect.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're all perfect.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So don't be don't be hating down under.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be Cinderella cutting off your toes.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's they're supporting you, you know?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're supporting you, they're helping you go for a nice little walk.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Step sisters cutting off their toes.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, yeah.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, celebrate your legs.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you here next time on Being Different.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Together