Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Navigating Grief in Separation & Divorce

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Navigating Grief in Separation & Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: These are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganising life afterwards.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warentry people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in this episode, I welcome back Rio Richards, private practice therapist and grief integration coach.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's with her grief integration coach hat on that I welcome her and chat with her in today's episode.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because grief is a really normal response to separation, divorce, even preemptive grief while we're navigating that should I stay, should I go?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Question.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So Rio and I share about how and why it shows up, how to support yourself through it, especially with regard to also needing to do life right and make the big decisions while you're in the midst of grief.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy and take what you need from this episode, this conversation with Rio.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, Rio.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming back onto the podcast for this second chat.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, I'm so happy to be here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, today I really want to focus on grief and your work in the grief space.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whether we choose it for ourselves or whether it's something that is not our decision, separation, divorce brings up grief.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I find too that it's not a one and done type situation.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it can pop back up at a later date, even years down the track.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought today we'd open with you speaking a little bit about your work in grief, a little bit of why you do it and the impact that it has for your clients.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I have been a licensed therapist for five, six years now, four years, some somewhere around there.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I've been in the the grief space specifically um pretty much since my dad died in 2021.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what I found in that experience as a therapist looking for my own grief support, having this was really my first um experience with significant loss that was so close.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found a real lack of I found a real lack of uh helpful support, I should say.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: The support is everywhere, like the nice words, the the nice things, you know, not even platitudes, but but people truly wanting to help.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a real sense of no one knows what is happening to me, no one can explain it to me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't seem to find helpful resources about this.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so when I was offered the opportunity to work for, to work as a therapist um for our local hospice foundation in California, I jumped on the opportunity.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um grief was all I could think about or talk about, anyways.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just sort of dove in headfirst into the work while I was very much deep in my own grief.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one of I think, I think it saved me in a way.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the most healing experiences in retrospect, you know, at the time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, okay, here I am with other people's pain, with my own pain.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but looking back, I think that that the radical normalization of what I was going through every day with multiple people a day for 10 months straight, was just the the permission giving space that I didn't even know I needed.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I felt very strongly coming out of that experience that that was that was good work that needed to be done out in the community.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as I started my own private practice, that's what I really focused on.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wondered as you were speaking there, I just wondered whether it's almost like a gift that your dad has left for you.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing, beautiful work.
• 4:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also there's a similarity in why I do what I do, because when I went through my separation and divorce, there just was that lack, like you were saying.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody really understood.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: There were there were the lawyers, there were psychologists, the therapists, the financial planners and advisors, but there just wasn't that deep nurturing space holding that I was really looking for.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, interesting.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you made it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I made it, yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you did.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um divorce, let's talk about divorce, because it means there will be loss, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it was your own decision, there is grief.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a simple question, but why?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that I uh ambiguous loss is a term um that you've probably heard of before.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it's really important to name that the loss of any expectation is grief.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Grief can be anything, anywhere for anyone.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But when you think about divorce, there's so much loss within that.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you chose it or not, um there's a loss of an entire future you had planned, of a relationship.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it changes dynamics with children that are involved.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You lose friendships or there's changes in dynamics there.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Having to move, like there's so much financially, you know, there is so much secondary loss besides the loss of the marriage, but it absolutely makes sense that that is a huge grieving process for people.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is massive.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, just like you said of your own personal experience, you can't know the magnitude of that loss until you're in it and you're feeling it for yourself.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So do we all as humans grieve the same way?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do we really go through set stages or predictable patterns of grief?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: That just seems way too simplistic to me.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it is.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And no, we don't.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's interesting.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: The the stages of grief written by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, uh, they were originally intended for patients who were dying of terminal illness.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So these stages were written for someone who was actively dying and the stages that they went through before they died.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were not written to be speaking about the experience of the people left behind or someone grieving the loss of that person.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think she she addresses that at some point.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like she tries to tell people I wasn't talking about, I don't know, but it took off like wildfire, obviously.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, there are no set stages, there is no timeline, there is no roadmap.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are no shoulds, which make it so confusing because I think so many people walk around thinking that they're doing grief wrong.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there isn't a roadmap.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and we all grieve differently because we all have different relationships with what we've lost.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So grief is as unique as the relationship or the thing that we lost was.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my grief losing my dad is going to be completely different than my mom grieving her husband of 34 years.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so our experiences within our own grief are going to be wildly different in a lot of ways.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I often find you with clients who are yet to make the decision to leave, they think they want to leave.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: They have almost this preemptive grief.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they're a bit dark because they know that this is coming.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: They know all this loss is coming.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I find that interesting too.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So with uh divorce, big life decisions need to be made, and sometimes uh they need to be made in uh in the moment when we when it's new, when it's raw, when we're really deep in that early grief.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: How does someone best hold themselves uh navigating the grief while also having to do the hard things, the practical, tangible things, you know, get up, get on with day-to-day life, make big decisions while also holding space for their own grief?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say that that there are two tasks after loss: healing and rebuilding.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And healing requires so much more rest than we've probably ever given ourselves.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And rebuilding requires action.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are two opposing energies that both need our attention at the same time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what can make grief and loss feel so just crazy making of, you know, I I maybe you hear this from clients too, this experience where if you're resting, you're like, well, I should be doing this thing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're doing this thing, you're like, well, I'm not feeling my feelings enough.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there's this push and pull between these two tasks.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think naming that firstly is just really helpful, is that just because you're in one doesn't mean you're not also doing the other.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to be in both at the same time.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So just allow yourself to move through the two.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is also can come back to like the uh dual process model of grief, um, which essentially is the same idea where we are bouncing between uh the grief and the rebuilding.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can just think of it as like a ping pong moving forward.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we if we stay stuck in the healing and the resting for too long, there's no action and it's not actually good for us to stay there.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's too overwhelming.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: We stay in action too long and we're not feeling, then we're beginning to repress and suppress and not deal with all of the emotional aspects that are here.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So too much of over there is not good either.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let yourself ping pong and do it perfectly.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I guess that that brings in, and for listeners, I'm sort of swaying back and forth, ping ponging myself, it brings in a somatic um element too, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Allow it to be what it is or and not attaching meaning.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so if if we can say this is this is natural to move through these two opposing energies when you've been feeling deeply and you're like, I just need a distraction and to not do this anymore, great, shift into the doing and don't attach a meaning of I can't handle this, I'm weak, I should be X, Y, and Z.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let yourself just transition into the other energy.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's a really helpful framework to have the two energies, the idea of the two energies, the healing and the rebuilding, the resting and the doing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: If the themes in this episode are resonating with you, if it's bringing up things that you would like to explore on a deeper level with me, you can book a free intro call via the link in the show notes and we can discuss coaching options.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to support you.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And now back to this week's episode.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: One part of the loss of divorce is parents in their time with children.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: What would you just what would you say, or how would you support someone who's grieving the time they are not with their children?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I this might be an annoying therapist answer, but truly let yourself feel it all and feel it deeply with a safe container.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So reaching out for further, you know, uh emotional support like a therapist, or making sure that you have or a coach, yes, thank you, or having exactly a coach.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having those safe people in your circle, um, a friend, a family member, like who do you trust?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who can you be authentic with?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like who do you not have to hide with, and be consistently leaning on and reaching out to those people as much as possible, even if it's to tell them I'm isolating right now because I'm overwhelmed.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just let them know, like I'm shutting down.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, I'm shutting down, I can't, I can't hang out, or whatever the thing is.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But but trying to feel connected to others when we are experiencing grief around such an important attachment is a really powerful way to also keep just one foot, you know, in the present moment.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I again, I think that's a really powerful um mental image, one foot in the present moment.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, going one step further, I wanted to ask you about alienation from children.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if the children of a separated in a you know, in a separation divorce, when they're old enough, perhaps the adult children, sometimes they choose they choose or are encouraged to distance themselves from one parent.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think brings a really specific grief.
• 14:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are your suggestions for grieving that parent-child relationship if that is a reality for somebody?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that acknowledging how painful and acknowledging the stories and very valid or legitimate, you know, I use the story just in the sense of like what we're conscious of in our minds, but really acknowledging those painful stories that we're deeply affected by, meaning whether it's writing or again talking with someone that we trust, um, I think that moving through that kind of heartbreak again is that sort of permission giving.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can I just actually move my body slower?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can I eat slower?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can I shower slower?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I slow down everything because I'm processing such huge loss and loss that feels really threatening, really scary.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many unknowns, there's so much uncertainty.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So taking care of our bodies in that way, knowing how much stress we're processing.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then letter writing, I know is not like necessarily a somatic tool, but in terms of um, you know, I've I've worked with clients before who have been through some similar experiences and continuing that bond for you, I think can be really powerful.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, writing them letters, looking at photos, but allowing yourself to feel the love that you feel for them, the memories that you had with them, your your hopes for the future with this person.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but your essentially your bond doesn't have to end when there's a lack of uh proximity or communication, what their experience is, you know, I wouldn't be able to comment on, but I I've worked with parents before who have found that writing letters and keeping them close in their own rituals and their own ways feels uh feels like a way to hold both realities.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I really love that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that came up while you were speaking was uh I want to and I haven't preempted this question for you, but um the relationship between grief and anger.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Can you speak a little bit to that?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think you know maybe it's a permission piece, you know, you're not allowed to be angry when you're grieving.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so can you speak to the relationship between grief and anger?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you answered you asked this question.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anger is one of my favorite things to talk about because we're not allowed to talk about it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, and that's why I use the phrase rage on the page.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that there is so much anger and loss because there's so much injustice and there's so much threat.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I think that anger is a really important protective emotion that is there for such good reason, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: If if the world takes someone away from you, if an ex-spouse takes a child away from you, you know, whatever the circumstances, when you've lost something important.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can I swear on here?
• 18:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what the fuck?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: What the you know, and and what happened and how did I get here?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's of course anger there.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think to give that space is essential.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whether it's, you know, somatically feeling that anger and just letting out primal screaming, whether you yell into a pillow, whether you throw paint aggressively at a canvas, um, whether you feel that anger and you just run, you just sprint as fast as you can.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can you mobilize it?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also give voice to it because I think the anger deserves to be witnessed and it's a powerful part of our story and our humanity.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so writing, you know, is always something that I come back to, you know, put it whether you burn it or delete it immediately after, saying, This is so fucking unfair, and this hurts more than anything.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I hate him, I hate her, I hate this life.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever the scary things we think we're not supposed to say, let your body say, let your body say it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Does grief ever really go away?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: My clients, and I'm gonna say personally too, um, around my separation, my divorce, often experience like a renewal or a reawakening of grief at some later stage, sometimes around you know, a significant day or date.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, does it ever really go away?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm let's just start with our question.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, no, that's the bad news.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Short answer, no.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Short answer, no.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all screwed.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't go away, it just changes.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so how's that that later grief different from that early, really raw grief?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we support ourselves differently through that later grief, I guess?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's exactly it, is that the later grief is so different, it's a new kind of grief than we experience in that early loss.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that that sometimes later grief can even be more painful in different ways.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because we're grieving something in the moment, say this person should be here, or they should be witnessing this thing, or I should be having this experience with them, or as a family.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're grieving something new in that moment.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: We are newly grieving that loss of that expectation or that heartbreak in that moment.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in terms of moving through it, just really allowing it to be there.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really easy for um experiences later in grief for us to say, like, I shouldn't be feeling this way, or am I moving backwards, or oh, I'm stuck, or I'm not over it yet.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of those.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um unhelpful thoughts sit on top of the reality of what's there and don't allow us to move through it in ways that are healing and are beneficial.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime shame is sitting on top of anything, then we can't reach it anymore.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was just speaking with a client actually today about this that she's experiencing grief in this area for the first time, but she so easily was able to float it back to the first time she felt this way.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, there is grief sitting underneath that grief.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we are experiencing that later grief, it's of course gonna be touching back to the first time we felt this way.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Such a big conversation.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: We could keep going on and on.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um with a huge life event, death of a loved one, divorce, we uh question everything.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: We question everything we thought we knew, we thought we believed.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can you speak to that ex existential sort of crisis that can come from a huge life event like a death or loss of a marriage?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I could say it it's very, very normal.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's part of the rebuilding after loss is what actually feels true to me now, what feels important, what do I have the capacity for?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: What bullshit do I not have the capacity for anymore?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Who is good for me?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I not need to have connection to either this season or for the rest of my life?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that perspective that loss gives us it shakes everything and everything becomes um I think on sort of like a mind, body, spirit level, all of it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything becomes do I actually care about this?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this worth my time, energy, effort?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if that's quite like answering your oh no, it's answering it's answering the question.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk about divorce being an invitation, and it's an invitation to strip out, unravel and strip out your entire life.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can choose what you get, what you keep and what you discard.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that sounds quite brutal, but I think we're on the same page here.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's really an opportunity to get clear on who you are, what you want, and what's important to you.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Does this matter?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I love that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so huge because after loss, I think so much of the messaging is okay, when are you going to bounce back?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've been through this thing.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now when are you going to be you again?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And after loss, separation, divorce, any kind of loss, it's you are changed.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're not the same person.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Life experiences have added a new layer and has changed the sense of self.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I'm in a hundred percent agreement that just that permission to burn it all down or make changes or really figure out what is aligned with you is part of I think all of that existential chaos.
• 25:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else that you would like to share on grief, particularly with regard to separation, divorce, and life afterwards, that we haven't already covered?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not relating to grief, but there was something that was so helpful at one time for someone I was working with that I could share, but maybe you've already shared this with your audience.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, share.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Please share.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: In a contentious situation or when you're in communication with someone that is difficult to communicate with for whatever reason, um, I've had quite a few clients starting to use chat GPT.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is this is this something that you recommend?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't touched on this with the with my podcast listeners yet.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's brilliant.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you can you can plug into you know this little AI chat bot or whatever they're called.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can go on to chat GPT.com and you can write out exactly how you're feeling about like exactly how you want to respond to this person.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't fucking believe you said that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, what are you thinking?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, you can write just totally unfiltered, and then at the end of it, say, I'm sending this to my ex and I need to communicate to him that I have this boundary or that this thing needs to get done, and it will just write it for you.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you get it all out, you don't even have to think about it, and it'll spit back out this perfectly nice, unemotional, curated, you know.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's it's a brilliant way to just allow your authentic experience to be and not take on that extra emotional mental load of having to play pretend in a sense.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is absolute gold.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's something that I do for my clients.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So now they're all gonna go, no, I don't need GPT.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's brilliant.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have actually heard of it being used to send um more work emails, but I haven't heard it, I haven't had that suggestion before.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, love it, love it, love it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you once again, Rio, for sharing this time and space with me, with the listeners.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll drop links in the show notes to how people can find and connect with you, your website and your Instagram handle.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so very much.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Bad conversation.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: So lovely talking to you.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Sally Ann.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Until then.