Latest / Realno sa Dritom Haziraj / The Pain We Don't Talk About: Imigrant Trauma & Mental Health - Dr. Sonila Sejdaras: Realno 021

Transcript

The Pain We Don't Talk About: Imigrant Trauma & Mental Health - Dr. Sonila Sejdaras: Realno 021 · Realno sa Dritom Haziraj

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: One of the main reasons why I am in this field is because I struggled with my own depression when I moved in US.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Growing up in the Balkan community as an Albanian, we had each other.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: There are millions stories like that, the immigrant trauma, because we lose so much.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad's words are when I saw you get on that plane, I was 19.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I lived with my parents, of course, at the time.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We were very close to one another.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I felt like I threw you in the ocean.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember as a five-year-old, you know, I wanted to help.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go to America.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, if you said that out loud in Albania, I was raised in a communist government.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: You, my whole family would have been going to concentration camps, you know, at the time.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do not wait too long.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Go and get the help or talk someone to someone that is professional that can give you some type of advice.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Even one session sometimes would do good.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening us.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for supporting us.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you like what you hear and see, click subscribe, like and share.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Help us to grow.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ovo je još jedna epizoda podcast realnog puta na engleskom jeziku.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I ukoliko ne razumijete engleski jezik u potpunosti predlažem da ostanete s nama zbog tog što govorimo o aneksnosti, traumi.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: She left Albania, built new life in America, earned the highest level of education in her field, founded a successful psychology practice, and created a non-profit dedicated to breaking the stigma surrounding mental health in her community.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: My guest is an Albanian-American clinical psychologist, speaker, and entrepreneur based in Chicago, Illinois, Dr.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sonila Seidarasi.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Drita.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Good to be here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for taking your time to give your contribution to the podcast Real.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I would like to start with the question that uh probably is the biggest question in Balkan communities here in all over the world.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why do Balkan people often avoid therapies?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that it's kind of fair to say that growing up in the Balkan community as an Albanian, we had each other and we had such a healthy community before the war started, at least for a while.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: But the history with Balkans, it has been that we have had war all along.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And therapy, even in the US, has been a new thing without having all the wars that they had.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the short answer is there is a trust issue sometimes on telling a stranger your whole life story, and that's a healthy thing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yet in this day and age, we are more separated.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have way more problems than we had before.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have those small communities with grandmothers and children playing around as much as uh we did, definitely not in the US.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Drita, but for you, but for me, I am fond of that time back home when I was born and raised.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so I think it's completely normal that there is a questionable um to not go and open up.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: However, I think that if you're feeling more stressed than ever and that's affecting your life, your kids, your family, your community, then you're not doing yourself a favor.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's important to search who you choose as a therapist, someone that can actually understand some of the culture.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: But there are many that can be absolutely a safe place for you to share and get better.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: What about us from the Balkans believing that a psychological help is a sign of weakness?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was one of them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I come from the Balkans.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I came here by myself.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was the hardest thing for me to admit.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, one of the main reasons why I am in this field is because I struggled with my own depression when I moved in US.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I moved by myself, didn't have my family or language or anyone around me that could support me the way that I was hoping to get supported.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing I did is go to a therapist.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that there is a wisdom that comes with people that need to get help anywhere, you know, if you can't have your own people.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't speak uh uh, you know, my therapist could not speak Albanian.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, Albanian uh psychologists, the field is only 20-something years old.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how it is in Bosnia or in other parts of the Balkans, but it is a new field in Albania.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm assuming in Balkans it's similar.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not psychiatrists where they prescribe medication, but psychologists where you talk and you heal through talking.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: We usually, uh especially in Bosnia, have that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going, I'm going on coffee with my friends.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's enough.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I hear that quite often.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: When you go for coffee with your friends, and I'm assuming that you have healthy friends, that whatever you share, it's not going to be shared someone else.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: But who are we kidding?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that as Balkans, we go and talk for coffee and we talk with other people.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that person is not specialized to give you sound advice because you're talking to another Balkan that has been dealing with trauma, that has been dealing with their own issues.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And even if I give people the best, the benefit of the doubt, I still think that the privacy sometimes is more shattered when you talk to people and they share with other people and gossip than when you pay someone and you know that by law they cannot share with other people.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think so that we have that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy we have the friends.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't know even how many times that helped me in my life because I am type of the personality who likes to share right away with people I trust.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for sure, you like someone with all that knowledge knows it's starting to be less heavier when it's shared, at least.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: But in the same time, that's an excuse not to get, I believe, on the Balkans not to get that professional approach that we all need if we want to improve and get healthier.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you look at the numbers when it comes to depression and anxiety and panic attacks.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And coming through war, I was 10 years old when 1990 happened.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we had a flux of people from Kosovo with a genocide, and we also had our own war and transitioned from communists to democracy.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's something that stays with us.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's an excuse in a sense of, oh, I have my friends, I don't need anyone, because again, it's complicated.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to open your heart and your deep secrets to someone you don't know.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's questionable and people feel very uncomfortable to do that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's supposed to be uncomfortable.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: We grow through being uncomfortable.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you talk to a friend, it's easier, which is great, but it's not a professional hope, you know?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like, and again, I love my Albanian friends, I love my Balkan friends, you know.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have Bosnian friends as well.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: But as a psychologist in the field for 20 years, I will tell you, I don't have as much faith as someone who has not done their own work.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because it feels like the blind is leading the blind, not intentionally done.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, Nila, how really is trauma passing from generation to generation?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Trauma, we have enough evidence that we can actually see that the DNA of our ancestors, which it can be 200, 500 years ago, has been passed from one to another.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: If there is a person that has broken the trauma, they have given the best gift to the generations moving forward.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really hard to do, and it almost requires to isolate, heal yourself, heal your family, heal your community, and heal your country, and then heal the Balkans.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm I am really optimistic that I think we're such resilient people that we bounce back from anything.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say from the practicing in the last five, ten years dealing with the Balkans?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's unique for us.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that again I touched on this trust.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you have had wars and the people that you thought were your neighbors, your countries next to you, have killed you, it's really hard for the trust and for that DNA in your body to feel safe.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that trust from someone that has hurt you, now you're gonna be cautious, being hyper-vigilant, you know.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the room when I've had people, uh, and I work mostly with Balkans, by the way, because I am one and I think they seek that, which in a way it's it's uh understandable and great.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that the trust in the rupture, we continue to redo the trauma without knowing.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've heard the phrase hurt people, hurt people.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you're the nicest person, sometimes if you're activated yourself, you might say and do things that's out of your character, and that is trauma.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the challenge is the trust, the challenge is also the learning skills on how to calm your body and how to be in a place where not everything feels personal.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: What would be advice?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: How to start?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a great question because I'm trying to promote this, and nobody gets paid, by the way, which is great.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So people are not gonna question this technique.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have the lungs with us, and breathing air, inhaling in a proper way, and exhaling is one of the best medicines for calming your body down when you're feeling stressed.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And in this day and age, we all feel stressed.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I usually say we mostly breathe through our chest because when people have gone through life, let alone Balkans through wars and top of life, we breathe in a very shallow way through our chest.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that looks like so.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: When stress happens, you don't do this consciously, but we breathe halfway.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: What happens with that we bring oxygen into our body only halfway, so now your brain feels less uh has less oxygen, so feel more stressed, and so does your body, because the brain and the body is all connected.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not taking care of your mind, you're not taking care of your body.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we see a lot of medical problems now, such as heart disease and cancer and autoimmune disease, because the body is in distress.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing that I always suggest to people is even if you don't go to therapy, try to put one hand on your stomach, on your belly, one hand on your chest, and try to bring the air all the way to your belly, which means that you're bringing way more oxygen into your body, and then exhale.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do that every day, it's something very simple, by the way, but you know, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but how many times do we really do that day in and day out?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I'm in my field, I have to schedule my time on meditating or doing yoga, things that actually help with the breath.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And in Latin, breath means life.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that this is the first, you know, kind of like skill that everyone should practice on.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that because as much as it's simple, it's actually just wake-up call that we schedule time for ourselves to do that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's we schedule it because life is very busy nowadays.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like it used to be where you can sit outside or you can rest.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes I grew up in Albania where we take a nap every summer, three to five.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: You take a long nap.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody does that nowadays.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're all busy.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: People still do it, surprisingly, back home, but not as much.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that scheduling time with ourselves is almost like replacing what we used to have, which is less busyness and more time to rest.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can we take nowadays like an advice?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Take more naps than you usually do.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: We know that that helps.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in the US, it's kind of like a new thing, you know, take a 20-minute cat nap.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually really healthy for productivity.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some companies now promoting that inside of the corporate offices, right?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're promoting it because look, I have a I have two clinics here, you know, and I I understand part of it, they're doing it not necessarily, which is unfortunate for the people, they're doing it for their productivity.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But again, what it comes down to, if a person is doing well inside, they will give a higher percentage than if a person is not doing well inside.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you see these companies promoting meditation and naps and health because they're realizing that you know we're all stressed out and it's gonna affect them.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So Nila, another uh important question is immigrant trauma related to the identity.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very, very um close to my heart, that topic.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when you started introducing me, I noticed that my body, you know, I had goosebumps because sometimes I forget my own story.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about my story.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's there are millions stories like that, the immigrant trauma, because we lose so much, you know, and on top of that, everything that we have lost back home, it comes to the surface when we move here, you know, and so so that it's not even an identity.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, identity is big, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So to lose your identity is to almost lose yourself.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the grief that we don't talk about, you know, leaving people behind that we don't know if we're gonna see them again.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some of that is because of documents, some of that is because if someone dies, you know, or is in a deathbed, you can't take a five-minute walk.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: You have to take a 12, 14-hour flight if you're lucky, um, to go and and say your last goodbyes.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also, like, you know, the neighborhood and the friends and the family.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I came here by myself, and my dad's words are when I saw you get on that plane, I was 19, I lived with my parents, of course, at the time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: We were very close to one another.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I felt like I threw you in the ocean.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I get emotional when I hear that because how many immigrants have gotten on that plane and they feel like, you know, they don't have they don't have their people.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's a real thing for all of us to address.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: You see that you made me emotional, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're both emotional, and I think we have to lead by example.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Crying makes uh makes a woman, in particular women, but also men, that's why I'm trying to break the stigma now.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's the s the strongest thing you can do when you cry and when you talk about our sadness in the things we go through when we move to another another country.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting you mentioned that because I remember in time when I was losing my mom.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's not related with me moving here, that's still uh back home, 2010, when I didn't even know I will come in the United States.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But her being in the hospital and me dealing with everything what is bureaucracy, doctors, uh family that I need to report every day for 40 days.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would leave the hospital and just need to sit and cry loud because I knew it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm losing her.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm crier by the way, but I did not have time because right away I would need to concentrate on the traffic, I would need to report to her brother and other family member how she is to deal with some stuff uh related to the doctors.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so that I actually never had, even to these days, crying moments about losing my mom.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's the reality, and that's one of the realities, but also like losing losing a parent is probably the hardest thing that we go through, besides losing a child, you know, and and I'm lucky enough to not know either either way, either one.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it's coming, you know, with a life does strange things.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Good things happen, bad things happen.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if you're a good person or a bad person.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you're speaking to something that's really important to talk about.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not only are you dealing as a daughter with a mom that's dying and the enormous grief and the shock, and how do you wrap your mind around that at the time, but you're also dealing with relatives who also have their own grief and they are across the ocean, and there is a different feel when we all sit together and grief versus the phone calls and the reporting, because you're almost going into the intellect, the logistics, you know, like giving the logistics, which when someone is dying at the end of the day, you know, having that heart space and just being there and holding her hand would have probably been the biggest gift for you and the biggest time that you spend uh with her because time is running very low.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are a couple of things that are happening during that time.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're also stripped away of more time with your mom, more time crying with yourself and uh the sadness you're dealing with.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you also have a duty to let your uncles, aunts, their brother, her brother, sister to uh provide some input.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when something like this happens, I don't think we're capable of just sitting and crying and grieving.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I say I don't think we're capable because it's an initial shock.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when it comes to grief, we're leaning towards it's a mental health.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about mental as well, but we're talking about grief, is there are five stages.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's shock, you know, the first few months or the first few days for sure.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is this happening?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can't wrap your mind around it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the 40 days for you would have been very hard to just really sit with that.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I also commend you, and I think it's an honorable thing to say I was crying after I left.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so healthy to cry from the outside, then cry from the inside and be bitter and and you know, harden your heart.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then you have the uh bargaining, is this happening?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, she's she's gonna live longer.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're gonna, there's something, a miracle is gonna happen.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have anger, why is this happening to me?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have depression, where you know it happened, and then acceptance.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in these five stages, besides the shock and the acceptance, the three you can go through back and forth.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be in order, and just let alone that alone, talking about grief that we all have.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anyone that hasn't lost anyone.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're flying over ocean, you're coming like an immigrant.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can you now tell me and share with me how you dealt with that mental health struggle related to immigration that happened in that time?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And how you would deal now after you finish all your education, got the tools and knowledge what to do.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as you can imagine, that was 27 years ago.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think age is also something that makes us smarter if we want to learn within ourselves.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, it was I had never lived without my family.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my parents were very progressive back home, meaning, go do your education, you know, focus on school.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I came here with some family members that it was really challenging.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was a different family structure.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think we don't talk a lot about this because there is a lot of shame.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I haven't talked about this until only recently because I want to break the stigma for other people.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But not not everybody is lucky enough to come to a family and to family members that are supportive.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And even if they are supportive, you're dealing with so much more grief and trauma because you just came, they might have been settled here, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I dealt with a very challenging thing where a family member was really emotionally almost abusive to me and uh focused on getting married right away, or don't wear this, or I'm gonna throw you in the lake if you do something that's ridiculous.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've never shared this, and I think again, I'm not sharing it to share my story, but I'm sharing it from other people that might have had these experiences and will not talk about.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that was very hard because now you go from leaving your family to now coming to a completely different support that's not even support.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually hurting you more.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I felt alone from early on because now I'm like scared of being in this country, but also scared of being with the people that I thought that would support me, like my parents did.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, I don't blame anyone.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I thank everyone that has hurt me because it's made me stronger, and I really mean it, you know, from from uh I I hope that they all heal, but I thank uh problems that came into my life.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was extremely difficult because I was alone.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I I like I said earlier, I had this wisdom of I'm going to go and get help because what I was doing is I was feeling very depressed and I felt in a place that I didn't want my own life.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I was going to kill myself or do something like that, but I just felt empty inside.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like if God would have taken me at the time, I would have been okay due to the pain, the emotional pain I was going through.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So of course I did some research and I was like, okay, maybe I can go and talk to someone.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: The person I talked to, she was like, I can't help you.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have Google Translate 27 years ago.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I don't speak Albanian, you know, but I will send you to someone that you can take some medications.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and that's how it started.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I took medications for over a year, which was antidepressant.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: My life came kind of back.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, I learned English very quickly.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I speak Albanian and Italian, so I hear that's easier when you speak another language to learn a third language.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so with a couple of years, I spoke English.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't go back to therapy, I felt better, but I went to school.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I focused on being busy, you know, and helping my family back home.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I actually brought them one by one.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: My mom came six months after me, and then we brought my brother, my sister, and my dad after five years.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't see each other.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question, it was that time was a survival time for me.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I've been in survival for I'd say probably 15 years.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: We had didn't have our documents, we got our passports 15 years after, which is survival in its own, learning the language, learning the culture, integrating both cultures.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I really love integrating both cultures because I see myself as a hybrid.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a proud Albanian, but I've been there for 19 years.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: All my education is here, so I've you know incorporated both cultures.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've tried to now on how I deal with stress, I am very intentional every single day on what I do.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Who I hang out with, what book I read, what kind of chores do I need to be home.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: But most importantly for me, resting and listening to my body and my mind and all the shadows that we accumulate every day.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mom, I'm a woman, I'm uh uh owner of two clinics, I'm the president, the founder of a nonprofit.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: All of those bring problems, you know, problems that need to be solved.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not bad things, but problems that need to be solved.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So half of the time, and I'm very privileged, but half of the time, besides working, I spend with my family and with myself.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, healing myself is an ongoing work.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cleaning that shadow, that darkness that we pick up, the dust that we pick up every day, and then being a mom of breaking the cycle of trauma has been the biggest reward and the biggest gift of my life.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So to have my kids that have never been abused emotionally, psychologically, physically, to have my kids that have a mom that can actually listen to them without reacting to them.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I haven't yelled at them, by the way, because I don't want to make myself look like, you know, I of course I've raised my voice.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: But in general, the better I do inside, the better mom, the better clinician, the better boss I am, the better person to give back to my community.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what your advices are to people who just came, who are here like you were back when you were 19-20.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: How quickly to help themselves again from the perspective of mental health and everything that they're struggling with?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would want to give a virtual hope to all the people that are feeling hopeless right now, because it's a completely normal thing to feel disembled and completely um dealing with grief, dealing with sadness, dealing with where am I gonna start?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think holding on to hope, I think also choosing people that make you feel safe.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: We know that, and sometimes we don't have that option, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think choosing folks that when you meet someone, you know if you're you get activated or not.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't have to do anything with the other person and with you, it's a mutual thing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: But choosing people that you feel good in your heart is extremely important at the beginning, because you automatically are going to ask for help.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: You automatically are going to need people that are going to help you.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a strength.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, if you don't have that, or even if you have that, and you have an opportunity to go and speak to someone to take care of yourself, please do so.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, the benefit of people traveling from one country to another, or Balkans coming here in particular, is that you do have plenty of Bosnian therapists and Albanian therapists, and plenty is not, it's not, but you don't have, you're not in my position.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: 27 years ago, there wasn't one Albanian that I knew.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know 30 Albanian psychologists in the US, which is a big, big reward for our community and for the Balkans, you know, in general.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: So get the help that you need, but most importantly, know that you're gonna bounce back because in our Balkans are very resilient people.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are just so strong.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just got goosebumps saying that because I think we talk a lot about our flaws, but we equally need to talk about how strong we are.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And there is strength when you get pulled, and there is strength when you cry, like you did, Drita.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there is strength when you actually share family hidden secrets because of shame and grief that and um shame we have.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: That what are others gonna say if you share this?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: There is absolute strength to all of us.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Sunila, thank you.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to hear who you were or who you were first 19 years of your life in Albania.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that girl, her dreams, what you want it to be, where you want it to go, and why.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this is gonna sound strange, but I am in a place that I truly believe that if we listen to our nature and who we are as people from a young age, we can go so far in life.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we get layers of what not to do and what communities want us and the families and the shame.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I say this, I in I start with this because as a little girl, and I've done a lot of work to reflect on that inner child that's still in me.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because that little girl and your little girl is still with us, you know.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: That little girl was a very smart, intuitive, and loving being.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I say this not in an egotistic way, but I remember as a five-year-old, you know, I wanted to help.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go to America.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and by the way, if you said that out loud in Albania, I was raised in a communist government.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: You, my whole family would have been going to concentration camps, you know, at the time.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say I'd spend a lot of time in the village with the trees and the animals and the people that were simple and they knew what hard space was.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I loved this the village.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I lived, I was raised in the city, but I would go in the village in the summer because that was my favorite thing to do, uh, being here, like I said, trees and animals and nature.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say, I want to go to America, I want to get married in America, you know.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I never thought that that would have happened, but here I am, you know, um in US.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had big dreams.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to help, and it came naturally for me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I also was raised by a grandmother that was the biggest gift of my life.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: She lived with us, and for 10 years of my life, she raised me with her examples of what she did for others.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was raised in a community that you don't even question once on helping someone that you don't know.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I also don't question once helping someone here that I don't know.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't have money, I give groceries, you know.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that to me, that is not for me.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that how can I not help someone that has no food to eat when I have plenty of food at home?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the main thing that I remember growing up.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, I went through my first grief, which was my grandmother dying.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Also, both my parents are very giving people, by the way.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: They led by example.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: But my grandmother died at 10 years old, and she died of cancer very quickly.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how it is in other parts of the Balkans, but in Albania at the time, we never shared with people that were dying and letting them know that they were dying.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's such a big loss because if you don't share, they can't say their first their last goodbyes.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I couldn't say goodbye to my grandmother knowing that she was dying because I knew she didn't know she had cancer and she was dying.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, the war of the communist democracy kicked in and you know, was riots and stuff like that, which must have been traumatic for sure as a little girl.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw a lot of, I would say it was impactful to see our people from Kosovo or Bosnians or Croatians being killed.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we I watched the news.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was not protected by my parents to say do not watch the news.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't let my kids do that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So whoever is listening to this podcast, please do not let your young ones watch terrible things happening because it is traumatic and it's called vicarious trauma, where you get the trauma through seeing horror things.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, I saw our people from Kosovo getting killed and slaughtered for uh not any good reason.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody should get killed if there isn't a good reason enough in the world to kill someone.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was the civil war, which happened in Albania in 1997, where gangs kind of like got guns and you know we felt very unsafe.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And two years later, uh I here I am.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: My parents found an opportunity to send me to the US for a better life, which um I'm very grateful for, but it's a journey, as we mentioned earlier.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot not share and respond on that five-year-old that you were talking about for the reason that you just reminded me of something that happened in my life.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I am born and raised in Sarajevo in Bosnia from a mother who is from Sarajevo and father who is from Kosovo.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I am five years old.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my personality, if I remember well, in that time, it was I didn't like fake people.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't like people going around me and saying me, Oh, yes, you are so cute.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: You are kind of was uh more mature than five-year-old would be.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I would kind of shut down and put some probably type of ego like a little girl that I don't want to talk with people.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And here is what's happening: in one day, when we gathering around my mom, Bosnian side of family, and my father, Albanian side of the family, we are building new house.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know how it's that on Balkans, everyone is together, family, friends, helping, you're not paying workers, everyone is doing just for you like a gift.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's on some kind of camera taken how I am in some kind of argument with my family, like five-year-old, and I'm saying, I really don't want to live here.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I should be born in America.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I did not know where America is in that time, but you reminded me how in subconsciousness of five-year-old was something that was happening later.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you said that, you know, in and I think first and foremost, what stuck with what you shared is that you don't like fake people.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Kids have amazing intuition when someone is being fake versus not.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we are absolutely in a place where we need to listen to our heart more than anything else.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that at Balkans, unfortunately, something that we do is people are coming over, clean the house, hurry up, do this.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Others are gonna talk about us.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think sometimes, you know, if someone loves you, if you come over at my house now, I'm very different.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna see some messes.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mom, I have two kids, I have a lot going on, but I bring people into my life that truly love me for who I am and don't judge me.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so when someone is being fake, there is a big problem with it.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we all have done it, you know.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: I keep on peeling the layers even off myself to just be true with people.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you saying that shows that you had had that intuition from such a young age that I want you to be real with me.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you're real with one another, you connect.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even in this podcast, everyone that's going to listen to this podcast, you don't have to have a high IQ to realize if you're sharing from your heart or if you're sharing from your mind what you know, diagnosis or people should be doing this.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't do my own work, people would see through me.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: They'd be like, uh, you know, you're just giving me advice, but I don't know if you're taking your own.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second part, there is no way that other people don't relate to this idea of I want to go to America.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that America is better than Bosnia or Albania, but I think it gives you opportunities.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you opportunities where you can kind of spread your wings, even if you feel really low, like I did and like you might have felt when you came here, and everybody that does really.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it gives you this the whole world, and you come across people like I came across you, that you would have never done it in a small bubble, even though that's comfortable and we love our bubble and our people.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just wonderful to hear that you know, we've had similar stories because I think this tells me that other people might have felt I want out, not because you don't like your culture, but because you want to do more.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and here we are doing more.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I am proud about that for me and for you too.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have to tell listeners that this is not the first time that we're seeing each other.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was really fascinated when I was introduced by our friends, a friend that we shared together, and I'm so happy.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like in that time, I didn't know I will have podcasts, but it was there.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm 50 years old in February this year, with kind of a little bit push of my family and my boyfriend.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just came back to the media.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is my love?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: What is my first passion?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, it's like, oh my god, it's you see how it is.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I will have you like a guest on my podcast, but I am really enjoying this conversation.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy that I can do this with you and with many, many people from all over the Balkans who are all over the world.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have so much to share, so much to tell, so much knowledge to send, uh, and maybe not depend anymore just what we hear from the media that are coming from Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Albania.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are generations who are doing really, really well all over the world.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's a gift, you know, to us, ourselves, for being here, having these opportunities, accomplishing things.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, it's very little about us, and it's so much about giving back.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why these podcasts or the nonprofit organizations are talking about love and all balkums, you know, and not separation from one another, not hate, it's easy to hate.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to judge, it's easy to say, you know, like othering, you know, these people are bad that worse than us.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so much harder to welcome and love because we all have hearts, we all have pain.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can connect through that, and if we can, if we can inspire and pull each other up from such a virtual world right now, I feel Drita, which by the way, your name in Albanian, I mean, I have to say this, means light.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you are such light.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've seen each other two, three times, and this is probably the closest we've gotten because we're sharing personal stories.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't had time to sit for coffee and share these personal stories.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that giving back to much larger back home and people that are Balkans here, all the Balkans, and and uh not separating is something that goes above us, above our families, above our time.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm right after you.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're 50, I'm 46.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we pass away, I want us to leave something that our children's children are proud of.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being with us, and thank you, Vispak, company from Visoko in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and brand Zlatna Jezva, who is sponsoring this podcast.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, when you mentioned that coffee, because sponsor of this podcast is a coffee company from Bosnia called Zlatna Jezva, I will make you very good coffee when we keep talking, not in the podcast about all your charity work, because I am really deeply interested in that, much more than we can share here with the limited time.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do know you know that I still have my charity organization, that I did amazing charity work.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have to pat myself on the back for 15 years helping thousands and thousands of people in Bosnia, but you have your charity named Care for Albania.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: How that happened?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: How that happened, it was in a very natural way, a very natural, authentic way.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to help and give back.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't when I was working and trying to pay my bills.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't at a larger level.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I come from a family and a culture that giving is part of it's it's a religion almost, you know.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're married to that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Giving is important.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we have plenty of data that giving is good for you first, but we don't give because it's good for us.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: We give because we want to make people feel welcomed, and that's how life happens back and forth.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: So Care for Albania happened by I was back home and I always helped.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I helped this orphanage center and people in my neighborhood.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in a neighborhood that wasn't really uh well off financially or education-wise, but very lovely people.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: The heart space was always there.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I go back to my neighborhood, my city, give back, go to this chair to this um uh uh orphanage center where little kids were um, you know, living without parents.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized, I said, gosh, I have been helping for three years, but I want to make a bigger impact.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been helping Americans mostly in the US as a psychology as a psychologist.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to be doing something bigger, and I said, why not create something that's a nonprofit?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: As I was leaning towards opening a practice, I said, when my practice takes off, not if my practice takes off.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been this kind of person that's gonna, if I put my mind to it, it's gonna happen.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: That self-talk is really important, by the way, the mindset.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so and the resiliency again.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I said, why not open something that I can actually broadcast it and help people back home, but not just people in Albania, but people in Kosovo, people in Macedonia, people in Montenegro, all the parts of Albania.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And people in Albania that are Albanians that are in the US.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So as I was sitting by the Mediterranean, and as you know, Albania is beautiful.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've been, but pictures.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was sitting in the Mediterranean with uh my kids and my partner at the time, and I said, you know what?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is the name I want to care for Albania or care for Albanians.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish that I did that, but I don't regret it at this point.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we might change the name.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to care.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was already caring, but I wanted to make a bigger impact.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as I opened my practice, I started, you know, the 25% of the practice always went to uh larger kids that I didn't know, elderly people that, you know, were in isolation, that were struggling to eat, were struggling to, you know, stay warm in the winter.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a city that's has all four seasons.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the way it came was naturally and kind of like the strong desire of wanting to give back at a larger scale.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I know here we are five years later, it's a 501c3 based here in Chicago, but I never in a million years, if you asked me when I came here as a 19-year-old, which I know that every immigrant's dream is to help their people, especially if they hold closely in their hearts the pain that they've gone through themselves.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I never thought that I'd be where I am.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm you have to pinch me, you know, even when I talk about this, it's like, is this really me?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: And let's not forget that this is this was my idea, but I'm not alone behind everything.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: There have been people that were Americans, that were brown, that were black, there were Bosnians, there were Balkans, that were Europeans that have helped me.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: So every accomplishment that I've had in this care for Albania is because there were people that joined, and we joined our hearts together.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the way good energy works is it starts with one, but you open up and then all the people get together.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're one of those people.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: You came to my first event a few years back, which was I didn't even know what I was doing.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I hated being in front of a camera or speaking.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're a journalist.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was not.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was more of a shy person and doing behind the curtains.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, here we are.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Care for Albania has been thriving.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've been helping thousands of people.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this year was the year where we saved, we raised$20,000, and we're opening the first room that is going to be helping kids on the spectrum in Kosovo.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I could not be any more proud.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I will probably never even meet these kids, but it doesn't matter.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: These kids' lives and their families' lives is going to be better because, as we know, when kids and when parents deal with kids that are sick, there is there are way more challenges than parents that have healthy kids.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I know what joy that brings to you, your team, and all the people who helped.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now I will use your uh way of kind of uh inviting things in your in your life.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: When these podcasts take off, for what I also need support of the community and listeners and people who is uh there to find us, to watch us.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I will definitely go back to the charity work that I'm missing so much.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: With moving here, I could do that for the three years, actually four, and then is when I didn't have capacity with waiting paperwork and just needing to take care of my boys in that time because they needed mom.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: But uh let's do a small challenge.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: In seven days of the uh airing this episode, um because I need subscribers on my YouTube channel.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's how uh uh this social media internet works today, and how it's putting you in front of the more people to see it, more people to see it, more we can do for all the community from the Balkans.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Every subscriber, and I will update in the time when we do this show, uh, meaning start uh to be live.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I will update my number of subscribers.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Every new subscriber for my on my YouTube channel, Realno Podcast, I will give one dollar back to your charity to do whatever you want to do with that.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Drita, thank you.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh it means a lot, even because it comes from your heart.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that as Balkans, again, I keep on talking about the resiliency we have, the giving back.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know many Balkans that would question giving something back when someone is in need, is in a need, because we are raised in a community, you know, not like individual, me, me, me.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we have.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a great quality to have.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I also like just the idea that someone that's not Albanian or an Albanian that will listen to this, that will click on your podcast, I truly believe, and I've already found the gold of life.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: If we do good, and it doesn't have to be the one dollar money, it doesn't have to be the one click, but you click with your heart, not because you know, you and if you want that one dollar, it's great, but it's bigger than that.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I truly believe that in order for us to be content and happy, which is something that we all chase, giving back service in others is crucial for that happiness.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: I have never met a rich person that focused on themselves and buying more things and more houses and more land that's happy without giving back.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I thank you for that.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: And as you know, I shared right before the podcast that we're doing a walk that not every Albin comes, it's people from all over the world that join us.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: We walk for people that have cancer and how that affects the individual emotionally, but their family, and so that money will go towards that.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually amazing.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think so that you have experience how much Americans love supporting good causes.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have that experience?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: I see really that like something in American culture and identity like a very, very positive thing.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: It really is a matter of what kind of circle uh do you have?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's important, and that my feedback to the newcomers in the country is important to choose your people because sometimes certain people can drag you down when you're not feeling stable.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Not right now.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like a strong tree right now, but I was a little, you know, a little plant at the time.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that we have a lot of Americans that help us.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, you know, half of people during the gala when we raised$20,000 were not from this, we're not Albanians, you know, and so it's amazing in terms of again, I think there is a privilege that people have in this country, but they they haven't gone through wars, they haven't gone through fear, they have more money, they haven't gone through starting from from the beginning.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: But also to know that Albania is a three million people tiny country.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not considering everybody else, but you know, if you talk about Albania, most people will just look at that, you know, the size of Maryland or smaller.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: And to help, to me, it's I could not be any more grateful.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I could not be any more grateful because we're sharing goodness in the world.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's your goal with the charity for the future?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: The goal is to help everyone that needs help, which I know it will never end because help is needed for all of us.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: But someone asked me a few years back in Albania when I was doing an interview that you're helping your city, and I corrected the person.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I said, uh, for now I'm helping my city.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: But my goal is to help all Albanians and everyone, if it's Balkans, if it's Americans, to me, I cannot separate.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I know sometimes we're just so tied into our culture, we're like, oh, Albanians are better than Americans, or you know, we're better.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: There is no better.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because my dad says this all the time.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you pass out in the middle of the street and there is a homeless man, let's say it's American, because I live in Chicago, obviously, that homeless man can actually go and get help for you.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you don't separate.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so my goal again is to do good in the world.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Care for Albania obviously is has more of a niche for the people and from my roots.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that uh in this day and age, we marry, we date, mixture, our kids might also, you know, my kid could marry in Bosnia.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so so it's to do good.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: To do good.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck with that, and we will follow up for sure, even through the friendship, if not through the podcast that we're doing right now.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that maybe it's time to mention is that you are very, very uh big fan of self-compassion.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes we learn from what we didn't get.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that gender is very important here, but I'm not even gonna mention gender because I'm realizing now that men also are not very good at self-compassion.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if we don't help ourselves, if we don't pull ourselves from whatever darkness or difficulties we have, we're not gonna be able to help other people.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fact.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody can really convince me on that.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Again, not only in the field, by my experience, the people that I've kind of met.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: And usually I heal others and I help others heal through self-compassion.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because we come from a culture where we want to do good to others and we put ourselves second.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Then we burn out, and then we become a burden for our kids and for our people around us.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that is in a matter of 20 seconds explaining why self-compassion is important.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a necessity, not in an egotistic way, but it's a necessity that if I do well, please, by any means, I say to people, do well to others.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great quality to have.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: But if you forget yourself and if you get sick, now you're creating a problem.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: So put yourself in the middle of the pot of doing good.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what does that look like?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: That looks like to not put yourself down, to not blame yourself for things that you could didn't know any better, to not say as a mom, I'm not a good mom.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know myself and many moms, we want to do so well, but in a society where we have to have our jobs, our health, help our parents, help our kids, you can be in a million pieces with your kids.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes blaming yourself, I'm oh, I did this to my kids, I'm not a good mom, that doesn't help you.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're a good enough mom with what you have right now.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Should you strive to do better?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that negative piece of being, you know, um able to blame yourself will only hurt not only you, but your kids, your kids' kids, because now they're gonna be worried about you.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've had so many Balkans that say, my mom doesn't want to get help, and I'm so worried about it.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: My dad has a heart problem, you know, and he can go to the heart doctor, but the doctor is saying, there is nothing wrong with you.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: You have panic attacks, you know, and you need to go and see someone.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't want to get help.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you see how it trickles down.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, think about, you know, how there is a saying here in the US, and I might butcher it, but like a bad apple makes all the other apples kind of bad.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: But think about if you have like a basket of apples and there is something that's bad in there, of course the others are gonna take from it.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to heal us to heal others.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you heal others and you're not healing yourself, you're creating more problems.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know if people will truly understand it.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it doesn't come from an egotistic way, it comes from doing good, and you're part of that.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can't put yourself second because then that oxygen mask is not working.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like we say when we take the flights.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Put your oxygen mask before you put it onto your kids.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody knows it intellectually.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: How many of us do we say, you know what, I'm gonna have a cup of tea first and I'm not gonna feel bad at all?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: If kids want something, they can go and get it, or they can wait for five, ten minutes until I take a breather.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I practice some of those deep breaths that I just uh started the podcast with.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it takes me a long time to learn that, but my life changed after I stopped wasting energy on the people who just was taking, taking, and taking.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really talking about energy, not about goods, not about financial stuff.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, is by nature, if you don't have good boundaries, which again, those boundaries are learned mostly in a family.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if your family is giving and giving and giving, I I do believe, you know, my grandmother died.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think she took good care of herself.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think she was a selfless woman.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we idealize these things, you know.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: When a person is selfless, it's like, oh, that's so great.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then what happens when they die?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then there is so much pain that is carried by uh her gr you know granddaughter, right?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I've carried pain for years with her when she died.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the boundaries are important to learn.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: I also do think that it's human nature to take, you know, to take things, to take energy.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even our kids, our kids take the most if you don't put boundaries.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you say to your kid you have to wait for five minutes versus give all the time, what are you teaching them?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then you can come to me all the time.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're not teaching them a good skill.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that when you stop giving to a point that you don't have and fill your own cup, you're also doing something good for the person that you stopped giving.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because now they have to fill their own cup.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you're teaching them how to fish instead of fishing for them.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is a Japanese proverb.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to teach people how to fish, but I think it comes with a lot of um parts that you need to learn, you know, not feeling guilty, not feeling judged by yourself sometimes, you know, to stop giving, um, not judging yourself, learning, you know, boundaries.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a lot to learn for all of us, especially if we're not there.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't raised with parents that taught me how to put myself first, not in an egotistic way, but take care of yourself while you take care of others.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't raised with that.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: They all took care of others, but themselves.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it stopped with me.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: I tell my kids to take care of themselves and then others, and that I'm proud of.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sunilla, uh more I know you, I more see empathy part part or side in you.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then how you manage uh your practice and doing all the therapies and meeting people and kind of dealing with that empathy inside of yourself.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been doing this for 20 years, and so many people say uh the practice has been going on for 11.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: I opened a second one two years ago where we teach other psychologists and or psychologists in training.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Empathy is a very important piece for all of us.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: If we run low on empathy, it doesn't matter what a good person you are, it's gonna spill over.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna spill over on you, on your kids, on your work.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've had to learn how to hold my heart clean and have a peaceful heart.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when I don't, because it's not all the time, it's not a constant thing, I take time to clean that dust and that darkness that has been accumulated, either by a client dumping their trauma on me, which is really the job that I have, but also I deal with over 10 psychologists.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to lead by example.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: I am a boss that I asked my psychologist to work less, not more.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: As someone that I get a passive income from them, ideally most people would say, Why are you asking them to work less?
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to create a healthy environment.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not I want to, I am also proud because I've created a very healthy environment at work, because I want to lead the same way.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: What you see today is how I work at work.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's how I deal with my kids, it's how I work at our nonprofit.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: If we have something to talk about and conflict, let's talk about it.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: Does it suck?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sucks.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say you didn't do this and you didn't do that, but we need to talk about it so then I don't resent you later on.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't also don't micromanage.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have a big problem with like having to like control people.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are two parts in life for us.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: There is fear and there is love.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I do most of my things with love.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when fear creeps in, I try to heal that part of fear that needs more soothing.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: So then I don't go in with control.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you wake up in the morning and you set an intention.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of person am I or I want to be?
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm not feeling well today.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: You start to investigate.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did I eat well?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did I sleep well?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Am I having grief?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is someone passing away that I have to deal with?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: All that stuff.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: The more problems you have at a certain point in your life, the more you need to take care of yourself so you can actually be able to be a light for someone else, just like your name.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a one thing.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: I wish it was a one thing, because also what has worked for me might not work for someone else.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: But time alone is extremely important.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you can listen to your body, listen to your mind, challenge yourself, and be better every day.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Nila, how often do you go to Albania?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Every year.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you are here, what do you miss the most from Albania?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I miss I miss the food, I miss the mountains, I miss the streets I walked that are full of dirt, but I love them.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I miss the people that I was raised with.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have emotional memory from the places that we grow up.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up with fera cheese and bread, and guess what?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right now I can afford to go and buy a hundred dollar steak, but no, I would choose fera cheese and bread anytime, you know.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I miss a lot of things.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very connected to my country and to the things I grew up with.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: My city is also, I come from Korcha, which is a city of serenades.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up with like, you know, mostly men playing guitar and singing.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I miss that as well.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um because singing and and music is um is heart, you know, and makes us smile, makes puts us in a good place.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you can bring one thing from there here, what would that be?
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, I um I do this every year, by the way.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: I am one of those immigrants that will bring plastic, you know, uh bottles of pop with olive oil because it's made freshly there.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: I bring mountain tea because it comes from the mountains, and we dry it and then we drink it in the in the winter.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and there is this fruit called queens here, or pto, ptoi, we call it, that I haven't found often, but I loved them when I was little.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that I cannot bring because I actually got caught during during the customs, and they said this is a this is something you're bringing you shouldn't be bringing.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, mostly I bring those two things because it olive oil stays with you, so I put it on the salad and it reminds me of back home.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then tea is also very soothing.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when we talk about America, what do you like about America?
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's not America in general because I've only been in two states, Michigan and Chicago.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: What I like about Chicago, which is my home, really, because I've lived here for a long time, is that I've created a circle of people that are just lovely and I hang out with them, and it's like I know them for 20-something years, which are some of my girlfriends are also psychologists, so they're all like kind of like my sisters.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I also love that Chicago has this beautiful thing about different communities.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've met a lot of Bosnians, I've met people from Balkans that, you know, and there are little areas where they make chubapi and things that are similar to back home.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, another thing about the culture as American is that most people mind their own business.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very important thing for me that I had to learn.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think growing up back home was about, and it wasn't gossip sometimes, and I want to give people off the doubt, but I was it wasn't gossip like, oh, this person.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: That some of that is that, but sometimes it's information we share.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a boundary issue.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you share something with me as a friend, and I share something to another person, not in a malicious way, but oh, did you hear that you know Drita has this podcast?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: Podcast is a good thing, but I usually say if there isn't anything good to share, don't share it.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: For example, something that's personal in you that I didn't know.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: You said my boyfriend, right?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would refrain from sharing that to someone else.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather you share about your personal life than me share about your personal life.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's a boundary issue.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in America, sometimes people just mind their own business and there is less judgment with that.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you share something, if you share something about podcasts to someone that's not happy, guess what's gonna happen?
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna get a little bit jealous because they might want to have a podcast.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're gonna say, Well, she had a podcast.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: How who is she to have a podcast?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it so these kind of things to me, it's a waste of time.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even entertain it.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: If I hear someone say something like that, I say, uh-uh, I want to hear it from the source, don't want to hear it from you.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I've gotten into a place where people kind of know.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: They know they don't they don't tell me anything because I'll stop them.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's extremely important to have that, and we can incorporate it in our culture because one of the reasons that I am who I am today is because I've taken from my culture and our Balkan culture and from the US culture the good things, the things that nourish us, and I've combined them.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: And guess what, I've done to the gossip and the judgment of the Albanian culture?
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've left it where it needs to be.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want that in my aura, I don't want that in my family, I don't want to raise my kids that way.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to, you know, take the things that are not good and leave them, have them die.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: At least for me.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an ongoing work, by the way.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that's amazing approach.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it gets into a point where you have to have enough confidence in yourself that if you say, please don't talk to me about other people, if that person has a problem with you, maybe that person should not be in your circle because you've outgrown them.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why we like bad news?
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why we like so much everything that is actually coming like a bad, not good, especially today in the social media era?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is an excellent question, and so important for people to realize.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: We like bad news because as individuals, before we have had this evolution of becoming sophisticated, we have a primitive brain that is called fight, flight, freeze.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: That brain was built first into us, the primitive brain.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: That primitive brain is always on alert.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: If before you were worried about war, now you're worried about bills.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're worried about what someone is gonna say to you.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when we hear bad news, it's our default.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're attracted to it.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, now they've done studies.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you started the podcast with, I'm gonna share something terrible today, guess what?
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was gonna tune in because it's like, okay, what's happening?
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on alert.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not because people are bad.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe that.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we do bad things, but the reason we like the news, the bad news of one another is because is that gonna come my way?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: I need to feel safe.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there are people that are unhappy with themselves and they constantly thrive on that, and that's doing harm.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_01: But in general, if you started with something bad, you would have grabbed my attention, and I knew why.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the frontal lobe, which is the more sophisticated part of ourself, is developed after the fight, flight, freeze.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's why people tune into the news.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: How many intelligent people do you know, including myself, that I know watching the news is not good, but we do watch it.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't turn it on the news now, by the way.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing I do for self-care and for my kids.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I also mentioned that whoever is listening to this podcast, do not let your kids watch the news or have free electronics so they can Google and see terrible things.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason we what we tune into bad things is because our brain puts us in fear.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is this gonna come my way?
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or do I need to know more about this to feel safe?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not as sophisticated as we think.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: As we calm our bodies down and the frontal lobe comes in, then you start realizing, is this doing harm to me?
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: How much do I want to do work with myself and self-healing?
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm in a place where I don't want to watch the news, I don't want someone to bring me news of someone else, I don't want another person to just come in and then dump on me.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if it's my job, it's fine.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's you and you come in really activated, actually this morning I had someone that just broke up and she was a mess.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I said to her, listen, I am your friend, but I cannot help you the same as someone that is in a professional setting.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I have a podcast in two minutes, so I won't be able to just do this with you.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: But in order to protect my energy and my friend's dignity about sharing details of what happened in that relationship, which I'm not interested in the gossiping, I'm not interested in knowing, even if the person wants to share.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I don't care, but save their dignity.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I step back, put some boundaries, some buffers with compassion, with empathy.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But these are the things that you want to surround yourself with.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it is hard, trust me.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for me sometimes not to like be drawn into the negative and what not want to watch the news.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to do it.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you experience uh from all the journalists who is podcaster now, it's even harder to do this type of the job because AI is playing with that part of our brain, and you cannot break it into the anything if you do not use the stuff like bad news for algorithms.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I am, I will be very honest with you and with my listeners, I am struggling with that because I do not want to deceive people, I don't want to do sensational title just for AI to make people click, because that's not what is inside, and that's not what is the mission of this podcast.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But God, it is hard.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're speaking to something that so many of us are dealing with, and I'm so glad to hear you that you're not leaning towards the AI and the more clicks from a negative point of view, views, especially knowing that the research shows that.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I stand, and I believe on these words that I'm gonna say.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: We have two well, let me just reword this.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: We have it's we have a pathway to go to do more clicks, to make more money, to just use the AI in a way that's gonna work for more things.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am not worried about AI.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: What AI will not have is a soul.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you nurture your soul, if you nurture your heart and you're good, good things will happen to you.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you go into with a negative and you attract people that are good and not so good, you're actually going through a business perspective, not a heart perspective.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Heart to heart is not business.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here with you, my hour can be expensive, and I could have said no to you.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But because I felt this is important, we're gonna do it.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna do it from our hearts.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you're not gonna have more subscribers as much as you know, with something negative, but you're going to heal the world gradually, and you're going to attract people that are close to wanting to heal but don't know what to do.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the ones that are completely blocked, they might choose both ways.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: They might choose the way to be in a negative, watch the news and stay there.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can't take someone and save someone, they have to save themselves.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: But the worst, the ones that are in between, gosh, what an impact we have to spread goodness, to talk about healing, to talk about things that are good for us.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I will never do something that will make me more money, but will actually close my heart.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's not worth it to me.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: It might be worth it to a lot of people, but not to me.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I really appreciate that.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I really, really like your approach and thank you for being part of this.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you touch that part for people that are in between, how do I know if what I'm feeling is just everyday stress, or I should do something about it?
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you are noticing that you cannot get out of the mud of the problems by yourself, then the problems repeat themselves.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a relationship with your child, a relationship with yourself, relationship with others at work and partner, which you know, these are kind of like the most important things really in life.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say if, which means if you have trouble sleeping more than two weeks, if you're eating more or less than usual, if your relationships are deteriorating, you're noticing either a rupture or the same thing playing out, the same negative thing, do not wait too long.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Go and get the help or talk someone to someone that is professional, that can give you some type of advice.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even one session sometimes will do good.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're someone that's in between, where you're kind of like, I have some stress, but I also have all these other good things, then nurture those things that you know help your heart, that help your day-to-day do better.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think therapy is for everyone, right?
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that for Balkans it's needed because again, we have generational trauma, and then we are also being displaced from one country to another, more than Americans and more than someone in Western Europe that had to like, you know, stay in the same country and didn't have this war, these wars.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I the simple answer is if it's getting on the way of you doing better for yourself, get the help.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's as simple as that.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to get the help, those things are going to repeat themselves, and unfortunately, you're gonna get worse.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you're gonna have to be on medication and maybe stay longer in therapy and maybe break up from a relationship that might have been good for you, or uh stay in a relationship that's not good for you, or be a mom that's like, you know, you feel guilty every day after you, you know, yell at your kids or do other things that you know are not necessarily who you are.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, the answer is just check in with yourself.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have had problems day in and day out that you cannot solve yourself, get the professional home because you're giving a gift to yourself and to the relationships you have with other people around you.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: When people coming to you with the problems, can we generalize that we are all just humans, or are you dealing with different problems if we are from Balkans than Americans?
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not talking now about these stigmas that we went through on the beginning of the podcast, just regular day-to-day life.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Are we all humans, or it's different for us than Americans and vice versa?
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: We are all the same.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the biggest gift that I've learned and that I know in these 20 years of people sharing the deepest secrets of their lives and the deepest pains, which is a privilege for me to hold, we are all the same.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Black, white, brown, Asian, Balkans, Serbians, Albanians, we are all the same.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody is dealing with issues and trauma.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the more trauma someone has, the more they have not done their work and they feed the negative, the more they're going to continue to hurt themselves and other people.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I haven't seen a difference.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think from the outside, we do a lot of pretending.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Once you're in that space and you're vulnerable and you share your pain, there is no difference.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you feel when you see the difference?
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel when you help someone?
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I only recently discovered and I did a little three minute why it's important to help, but it makes you feel good.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for my kids, sometimes that because they've seen it, I've modeled giving is important.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It makes them feel good.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter said, she saw a homeless guy the other day, and she said, Mom, do you have any dollars?
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, I had to I gave her two dollars.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she gave it to him and she said, Mom, this makes me feel so good in my heart, what I'm doing.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So giving is a beautiful thing for others, but it's also a gift for you.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you don't do it to feel good, or so others can say, Wow, you did this thing.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a business.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's not, it's not, it's an emotional business.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a real authentic thing.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But giving and helping to me is a gift to me and my family first.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I feel great.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have that same feeling through the practice, like a doctor when you help someone change the life and improve?
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: How you deal with that afterward?
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that having a doctorate to me is a privilege because obviously it takes 10 years to train, but um it's not it's not be at all.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this status, this like the license or like the doctor in front of my name, I don't go by that.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I am a simple human uh like anyone else.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remind myself every single day that this is a privilege.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't see myself as one upper because I'm a doctor.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It just puts me in a position when I can hold pain and help others heal in the best way possible for them.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, I remember my I remind myself every day that the tire goes up and it goes down.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of life.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I'm on top right now doesn't mean that I'm not gonna go down.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna need my healers and people that will help me when I go through grief or something terrible that happens in life.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, like I said earlier, we are all human, we are no different, we have certain expertise, but at the end of the day, that doesn't make us better or worse.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And how would you like to conclude this wonderful conversation?
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you and thank you for spreading light and goodness in the world.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if there is one thing that people liked, besides clicking, you know, and donating to people in need, I'd want to conclude it with this.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: The best way for all of you to thank me is to take care of yourselves and take care of your families.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing I want to give to the audience.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And reminder uh, we will stay in touch for seven days when we uh live with this podcast.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_00: For the people who subscribe on channel Realno Podcast on YouTube, will be one dollar per subscriber's donation to care of Albania.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm doing this to learn these challenges that kind of internet pushing you to do, but most of anything, I really want to be part, like I was before.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really appreciate what are you doing.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, and thank you to all the listeners.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, besides the subscribing, that's something that you know, also giving for people in need, not not to us, that's why we're doing this.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about us.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think taking care of ourselves is extremely important.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I am really grateful that I am in this space with you and we're spreading goodness and we're helping people to get back on their feet and their feet if they're not, uh, and also do good.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do good for their their own circle.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Said Darcy, and thank you, my dear friend Sonila.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Drita.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being with us, thank you for supporting us.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here is the update of the number of subscribers on YouTube channel Real No Podcast with the date when we're airing this episode.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_00: As promised, for every new subscriber, donation will be made to organization Care for Albania.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_00: That my guest is founder and putting all her heart in helping her community.