Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / What Does It Mean When Women On Dating Apps Don't Share Their Phone Numbers?

Transcript

What Does It Mean When Women On Dating Apps Don't Share Their Phone Numbers? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:09
  Today we are going to be talking about this issue where women
• 0:13
  will not give out their phone numbers.
• 0:15
  Some women not all of course on dating apps and why they do that
• 0:20
  and what to conclude. And before we do that, I must
• 0:24
  tell you to subscribe. My most recent subscriber
• 0:26
  episode was why Your Partner Sends You So many memes and
• 0:31
  videos. And I talk about both sides of
• 0:33
  that and how both people can change the the the link happy
• 0:40
  giver of the memes and the very frustrated, overwhelmed receiver
• 0:46
  of the memes. And how to think about each
• 0:48
  perspective and why people do this in the first place.
• 0:52
  All right, so let us move into our topic for today.
• 0:56
  So in the Facebook secret group, which you should be part of,
• 1:00
  it's great conversation, 499 a month blue subscribe button.
• 1:03
  On the Facebook page, there was a discussion about why women
• 1:08
  don't give out their numbers on apps.
• 1:10
  Right. And there's so many reasons
• 1:14
  women don't want to give out their numbers.
• 1:15
  Apparently if you Google a number, you could get
• 1:18
  everything, but this is somebody that you are intending to meet.
• 1:24
  So I'm not saying that the number should be like, you know,
• 1:27
  the first thing in your profile, in your Tinder profile, in your
• 1:32
  bio or whatever app you use. OkCupid is where I met my
• 1:36
  husband. I've mentioned that a few times.
• 1:38
  But anyway, the point is, like you, you're apparently people
• 1:45
  are talking on the app and then the guy says can we move this to
• 1:50
  text, which is like, you know, an upgrade.
• 1:52
  You don't have to keep opening up the app, look at your kids
• 1:55
  like events, you know, and stuff.
• 1:58
  You don't always have to be opening like Tinder or whatever
• 2:01
  to talk to the person. So you're actually maybe going
• 2:04
  to, you know, meet up. Like that's why you're talking.
• 2:07
  You've talked enough to know. I've messaged enough to know
• 2:11
  that you want to meet up now. You should meet up right away,
• 2:14
  right away. There should not be any extended
• 2:16
  pen pals. I've been very, very clear about
• 2:18
  that. I've done multiple episodes on
• 2:21
  dating and all of this, so do not be somebody'd pen pal.
• 2:25
  You are just going to that. That's terrible, cause what if
• 2:29
  you really click with them over typing, but then you don't click
• 2:31
  with them at all in person? Then you just wasted a whole
• 2:34
  fucking bunch of time and you're likelier to try to get along
• 2:38
  with the person you're not attracted to, because otherwise
• 2:40
  it would be this huge sunk cost. And people are not rational
• 2:43
  actors economically. So you would be likelier to end
• 2:46
  up marrying this guy that you're not very attracted to just
• 2:49
  'cause you texted with him for like 3 weeks and he was so
• 2:52
  awesome. You told all your friends about
• 2:53
  it and it feels really depressed and shallow to just break up
• 2:56
  with them because you're not attracted to them, when in
• 2:58
  reality, of course that's what you should do because you will
• 3:01
  end up in a sexless marriage. But I digress.
• 3:04
  Point being, so you're talking to somebody for a long time and
• 3:07
  then they say, let's you know, move it to text.
• 3:10
  And apparently women don't want to do that because they're
• 3:12
  scared of them. They're scared he's going to
• 3:14
  Google their phone number now. I mean, maybe I'm not the right
• 3:17
  person to empathize because all my shit is all over the Internet
• 3:20
  and that's how I build my business, you know?
• 3:23
  Also, we can block people now, you know?
• 3:27
  I mean, what's he going to do? He's going to send you a Dick
• 3:30
  pic. I mean, anybody who's listening
• 3:32
  to this podcast, you know, you've seen a Dick before.
• 3:35
  You know, you may not have seen one in a while, which may be why
• 3:37
  you're listening, but you know you have seen one, so you're not
• 3:40
  going to die and then you just block them.
• 3:43
  And it's so rare for guys to be assholes, like most guys are not
• 3:48
  assholes. You know, Most guys are regular
• 3:51
  people. There's somebody's son, there's
• 3:53
  somebody's father. Most people are not being
• 3:56
  assholes. And if you think that most guys
• 3:58
  are assholes, then you got to get to therapy to figure out
• 4:01
  why. And if it's because all the guys
• 4:03
  you've been with are assholes, there's a common denominator,
• 4:07
  you know, and and that's you picking them.
• 4:10
  And I've talked about this repeatedly, Imago theory.
• 4:12
  You must have seen one of your parents treat the other one bad,
• 4:15
  and you assume relationships are shed and so you're drawn to
• 4:18
  somebody who's, oh, treats you bad.
• 4:19
  But point is, most guys are not assholes.
• 4:22
  They're not going to stalk you. They're not going to do anything
• 4:25
  terrible to you. You know, you give them your
• 4:28
  phone number because you're going to meet up, right?
• 4:31
  And that would be the only reason because you're moving
• 4:33
  this to meeting up. How reasonable is it that you
• 4:35
  would meet them? So let's say they are a
• 4:37
  sociopath. They're going to kill you.
• 4:39
  Well, you just met them, So they're going to kill you,
• 4:41
  right? Like, in real.
• 4:42
  Like, they're going to kill you when they see you.
• 4:43
  That's that's the part that's so scary.
• 4:46
  Well, they're going to do that anyway because you agreed to
• 4:47
  meet them. So how is the phone number worse
• 4:50
  than meeting them? It just doesn't make any sense.
• 4:52
  So my point is it's a hallmark of anxiety and rigidity.
• 4:58
  When people are scared of the world they're going to end up
• 5:00
  being scared of your penis and you do not need that you if
• 5:05
  you're listening to this and you're single, you already been
• 5:07
  in a marriage that didn't work out.
• 5:09
  Likely if you're a man it was because it was a low sex
• 5:12
  marriage and or she was anxious and rigid.
• 5:14
  Those are like massive reasons that men are no longer married
• 5:18
  to to the women that they were with.
• 5:20
  Those are the biggest things that bother men.
• 5:22
  Low sex and anxious slash rigid. So then she's literally telling
• 5:26
  you she's saying you're asking something reasonable to text
• 5:33
  instead of to have to open up Tinder every time we want to
• 5:35
  communicate because our relationship is progressing to
• 5:38
  where we are going to meet up. And I am scared of that because
• 5:43
  I feel that you will Google my phone number and you will find
• 5:46
  out things about me, things that I would, of course tell you when
• 5:48
  we met up. Because people talk when they
• 5:52
  meet up. It's not like you go on a date
• 5:53
  and the guy's like, oh, So what do you do when you're, like,
• 5:55
  can't tell you yet And they're like, where do you live?
• 5:58
  And you're like, I see where this is going, sociopath.
• 6:01
  Like, that isn't how you're gonna interact.
• 6:03
  So point is, if you're really scared of a phone number being
• 6:08
  Googled, perhaps you should be focused on therapy for anxiety
• 6:13
  and rigidity. You know, there's a lot, a lot
• 6:17
  of people think that when I talk about this in my podcast, The
• 6:21
  Cult of Boundaries and Preferences, they think that as
• 6:24
  long as you say like you have a preference, that it doesn't mean
• 6:26
  that you're being rigid. Of course it does.
• 6:28
  What's somebody with 100 preferences of not being rigid?
• 6:31
  Boundaries. Oh good, so you have all the
• 6:33
  boundaries in the world. Take your boundaries out on a
• 6:36
  date. You can't because you want to be
• 6:37
  with a person, but your boundaries may be stopping you
• 6:40
  because your boundaries are are so, so vast and there are so
• 6:45
  many of them. So you're not going to be a laid
• 6:48
  back person that just doesn't give out your phone number that
• 6:50
  just like is is not a thing, you know?
• 6:52
  So it's like these guys that tell me they had a good sex life
• 6:55
  before they got married. They wonder what happened.
• 6:58
  I was like, oh, you had a good sex life.
• 7:00
  Yeah, we really did. There's a lot of, you know,
• 7:02
  there's things she wouldn't do, you know, like why?
• 7:04
  Like oral, like other positions, like put the light on.
• 7:09
  Like, you know, like anything with an any sort of adventure,
• 7:15
  any cake, any exploration. Like, tell me your fantasies,
• 7:18
  like, masturbate, like mutual masturbation.
• 7:20
  I'm like, what the hell was your good sex life?
• 7:22
  What am I missing? No, but whenever I wanted to,
• 7:25
  she said yes. It's like, listen, there are
• 7:27
  proxy variables in this world. And one of them, I'm telling
• 7:31
  you, is somebody with a million boundaries and one really
• 7:34
  strange one is not giving out your phone number that you can
• 7:40
  block someone, you know, what are they going to find out?
• 7:45
  Why do you think that out of a two second interaction, what is
• 7:49
  the likelihood of this guy being like a complete sociopath that's
• 7:53
  going to Google your phone number and what are they going
• 7:56
  to do with it? They're going to come to your
• 7:58
  house. What are they going to do at
• 7:59
  your house if why then do you go to giant to get your food?
• 8:04
  Any man could see you there and follow you home and do whatever
• 8:08
  they're going to do. I mean, like, you can't live
• 8:10
  like that. You can't live being scared of
• 8:13
  the world. And if somebody tells you they
• 8:15
  don't want the phone number, just be done with it, Thank God
• 8:20
  in heaven that they gave you such a clear sign that they're
• 8:23
  anxious. Just be happy, say no problem.
• 8:30
  Best of luck. That's it.
• 8:32
  And if enough guys do that, then women may have to, you know,
• 8:36
  confront that this is actually an anxiety thing, 'cause it's an
• 8:39
  anxiety thing, right? And it's just an anxiety thing,
• 8:44
  and people that don't see it as an anxiety thing have other
• 8:47
  anxiety things. If you will have a million
• 8:50
  boundaries within the first couple of of, like, days of
• 8:55
  talking to somebody on the Internet, then why?
• 9:00
  What are they going to do? Why do you think they would find
• 9:02
  you so compelling that you would become, you know, the person
• 9:05
  that they wanted to Google and go to the House of?
• 9:08
  I mean, it just doesn't make it make any sense.
• 9:10
  Of course there's crazy people out there, but there's crazy
• 9:12
  people everywhere. How then can you go to work?
• 9:14
  How then can you go to the grocery store?
• 9:16
  How can you do anything? There's crazy people everywhere.
• 9:19
  We just cannot live thinking and trying to protect constantly
• 9:23
  against ever in interacting with somebody in a way that might
• 9:28
  make us quote uncomfortable which you know I've already told
• 9:31
  you is the word that is a proxy variable for anxiety
• 9:35
  uncomfortable. So if somebody so, So what are
• 9:39
  some other ones you might say So if somebody says like, oh, I
• 9:43
  have I I have like I I only meet for coffee.
• 9:48
  If you say you want to get a drink, they say only me for
• 9:50
  coffee. Fuck em.
• 9:52
  What do you need that shit in your life for?
• 9:54
  That is so rigid. It's so rigid.
• 9:58
  It's cool that they like to meet for coffee, but why won't they
• 10:01
  go to the bar? They don't have to drink.
• 10:03
  They could get French fries. They could do whatever they
• 10:05
  want. But you suggested something They
• 10:08
  could say I'd rather get coffee, but what if, you know, I don't
• 10:13
  know. Like fuck that.
• 10:14
  That's the stupid thing to say. I'm thinking about it now and
• 10:17
  it's kind of stupid. You suggest something.
• 10:21
  So generally you would want an open minded, flexible person.
• 10:25
  Sure. The only thing is, it's like an
• 10:27
  hour from their house. They don't want to go there.
• 10:28
  Fine, I get it. You don't want to drive like a,
• 10:31
  you know, 1,000,000 miles away at night or whatever.
• 10:34
  Or maybe they have a babysitter, you know?
• 10:36
  Or maybe they are divorced and they do not have their kids.
• 10:41
  Or rather, they do have their kids, so they cannot meet for
• 10:44
  drinks in the evening. They can only meet for coffee
• 10:46
  during the day if they want to meet you today or tomorrow.
• 10:50
  But if you wait until the weekend when they don't have the
• 10:52
  kid one night, that they can meet you for a drink, that
• 10:54
  sounds like a reasonable, flexible thing to say, right?
• 10:58
  But anybody who says I only do X?
• 11:01
  No, no, no, no. This is stupid.
• 11:04
  Arbitrary rules are indicators of rigidity and close
• 11:08
  mindedness. Especially when they make no
• 11:10
  sense right? Because you a drink could be the
• 11:13
  same amount of of time as a coffee date.
• 11:15
  So if somebody says I only do X, that is another one.
• 11:18
  So basically this entire podcast could be subsumed in forget like
• 11:23
  the phone number. I never give out my phone number
• 11:25
  whenever people say I only do this or I never do that.
• 11:28
  It is like a bat signal. You should immediately think, uh
• 11:32
  oh anxious person, rigid person, and that would be so much better
• 11:38
  so you would know already. Oh anxious rigid person.
• 11:41
  And if she's hot, I know none of my rules that I tell you about
• 11:45
  like what to look out for. You won't listen to any of them
• 11:48
  if she's hot, if you are a man. But then after the bloom wears
• 11:52
  off the Rose, maybe at least you will think, Oh my God, she was
• 11:55
  showing indicators of rigidity and anxiety from the beginning.
• 11:58
  And maybe this is not my soul mate, because we've also already
• 12:01
  started to fight over the fact that everything has to be her
• 12:04
  way. I have a a post that says
• 12:07
  everything in your relationship can be understood through the
• 12:10
  lens of your first meeting. And since I have 7 zillion
• 12:13
  podcasts, I don't remember whether I made a podcast about
• 12:15
  it. It doesn't strike me that I did,
• 12:17
  but the entire thing could be explained in this the way that
• 12:21
  you interact in the very, very first messages on a dating app.
• 12:26
  And the very first date, certainly, But even the time
• 12:29
  before the date, all of that is data.
• 12:32
  Be like a therapist. Therapists are observing from
• 12:34
  the very beginning. If somebody reaches out for
• 12:37
  therapy and it's almost impossible to schedule with
• 12:40
  them, they are likely a difficult person.
• 12:43
  They are not a flexible person. And that is something that I
• 12:46
  assume we will be addressing and usually start addressing
• 12:49
  relatively shortly in therapy because their wife probably has
• 12:53
  the same problem with that or their husband right that that
• 12:56
  everything that they suggest the person shoots down.
• 12:59
  I understand if it's a person is like an ER doctor and they work
• 13:02
  Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. But I actually have ER doctor.
• 13:05
  I have physicians that take do the session with their freaking
• 13:09
  mask on you know or they take it off for that but they're in
• 13:12
  their scrubs because they take 45 minutes out.
• 13:15
  So of it can be done. People can be flexible.
• 13:19
  So if the person that you are talking to on your dating app is
• 13:23
  not flexible and has rules and has restrictions, and then you
• 13:27
  feel yourself feeling enlivened by the challenge, do do not
• 13:32
  stop, do not pass. Go, go immediately to therapy.
• 13:35
  And the first question out of your mouth to your therapist is,
• 13:37
  why do I go after difficult people and fantasize about
• 13:42
  changing them into less difficult people?
• 13:45
  Oh, doctor Psych. Mom says it's because of my
• 13:47
  family. Could we explore that?
• 13:49
  That's immediately what you should do because there are
• 13:52
  these women and men that tell you basically within the first
• 13:56
  couple of seconds that they're going to be difficult because
• 13:59
  it's impossible to schedule with them.
• 14:01
  They won't give you their phone number.
• 14:02
  They can only do Tuesday at 7:00 and it's only the first Tuesday
• 14:06
  of the month. And they also don't like this
• 14:08
  and they don't like that. But they only like this and they
• 14:10
  only like that. And then you feel your heart
• 14:13
  racing faster. That's 'cause you had a
• 14:14
  difficult parent and you fantasize as a child about
• 14:17
  making them more flexible and open minded and you never could.
• 14:20
  So now your Imago is a difficult person and then you try to make
• 14:23
  them less difficult. Has it worked yet?
• 14:25
  No, it's never gonna. So stop.
• 14:28
  So now you know the more crazy. You may not recognize it as
• 14:32
  crazy. So just count.
• 14:34
  Be like how many times this person say no or never or always
• 14:38
  or have to or can't. All the boundaries.
• 14:43
  The more boundaries, the worse your relationship's going to go.
• 14:46
  Because they're not boundaries. They're rigidities.
• 14:49
  Rigidities. A boundary is something like,
• 14:52
  oh, we just met. I'm not going to introduce you
• 14:54
  to my kids. Oh shit.
• 14:55
  That makes sense, right? I mean, another person could
• 14:57
  potentially get involved if you know, and get hurt.
• 15:00
  Oh, yeah, we're meeting on Tuesday, not introducing you to
• 15:02
  my kids on Wednesday, no matter how good Tuesday goes.
• 15:05
  Hey, that's a boundary. You know what's a rigidity?
• 15:09
  I only have sex after five dates.
• 15:12
  The first two dates must be coffee.
• 15:14
  We also have to hike. I was like, fuck, you don't get
• 15:18
  with that person. Do not get with A2 coffee day
• 15:20
  one hike, five dates. Don't Why?
• 15:24
  There are women out there that will just take it as it comes
• 15:26
  and they will take things as it comes in life and be flexible
• 15:29
  and open minded there as well. All right, well, I think I made
• 15:33
  my point. I made my point very clear.
• 15:37
  The more rigidities, the more scared they are, the more
• 15:40
  they're uncomfortable, the more they're anxious.
• 15:43
  Just Fast forward to 10 years. Everything you want to do,
• 15:48
  they're going to be anxious. They're going to be scared,
• 15:50
  They're going to be upset. They're going to be negative.
• 15:52
  No, you don't need that. You don't need that.
• 15:54
  And listen, the same thing as gender inverted.
• 15:56
  Not that men do that. Men really do try to be
• 15:58
  flexible. But because men try to be
• 16:00
  flexible, if you keep being drawn to the men that say no, I
• 16:04
  can't meet up on Tuesdays. I could only do Wednesdays, but
• 16:06
  I can't do this Wednesday and I can't do this Thursday because I
• 16:09
  meet my buddies every single Thursday.
• 16:12
  So I can never meet you on a Thursday and then work.
• 16:14
  I actually have to do my I I get up to bike at 4:00 AM on on
• 16:19
  Sunday, so I can't go out Saturday night.
• 16:21
  You like? See you later, motherfucker.
• 16:23
  There are so many more fish in the sea that do not have a
• 16:26
  schedule that I already have to compete with.
• 16:28
  And we're not even dating yet, so get out of dodge with that
• 16:31
  too. All right.
• 16:33
  Hope you guys enjoyed this and it was useful to those of you on
• 16:36
  the dating market. And I'll talk to you soon.
• 16:37
  Bye. Bye.