Latest / Recruiting Evolution / Industry Spotlight | Elite Recruiting Secrets: Building a Powerhouse of Influence in the Talent Industry with Brent Orsuga, Founder - Pinnacle Growth Advisors
Transcript
- Brent Orsuga [00:00:00]: We have the only product that has a brain. Think about it. This is more challenging than people think. Mortgages don't talk back. Insurance doesn't have to talk to a wife. Cars don't go in and quit and get a counteroffer. Think about it. This is human psychology. Brent Orsuga [00:00:17]: You may call us recruiters. You know what we really are. Geez. Therapists, financial advisors, life coaches. Right? I can go on and on and on. So you can bring all the AI you want into the game. There still has to be this human to human dynamic and you better believe I'm going to master that. Kortney Harmon [00:00:36]: Hi, I'm Kortney Harmon, director of industry relations at Crelate. This is the Industry Spotlight, a series of the Full desk experience, a Crelate original podcast. In this series, we will talk with top leaders and influencers who are shaping the talent industry, shining a light on popular trends, the latest news and the stories that laid the groundwork for their success. Welcome back to another episode of the Full Desk Experience. Industry Spotlight. Welcome back to another episode of the Full Desk Experience where we dive into conversations with industry leaders who are redefining success in the staffing and recruiting industry. I'm your host Kortney Harmon, director of industry relations here at Crelate and today I'm not going to lie, I am so thrilled to welcome. I'm going to call you a heavyweight in the world of recruiting, Brent. Kortney Harmon [00:01:29]: Brent is the founder of the Pinnacle Growth Advisors and it's an Inc 5000 recruiting firm that's been recognized as one of the southwest region's fastest growing companies. As a seven figure entrepreneur with 20 years of experience, you've truly built a reputation that has go to talent advisors for fastest growing logistics company in the US In Canada. So Brent, I'm so excited that you're going to share your insights, what it means to be a person of influence in recruiting rather than just another influencer and so much more so for our audience members. Whether you're a seasoned recruiting professional or building your desk from the ground up, this conversation will challenge you to elevate your approach and think bigger about your role in our talent ecosystem. So let's dive in. Brent, what did I miss? You do so many things. I have gotten the chance to speak at the same place as you are. Listen to your talks, tell our audience a little bit more about you Pinnacle Growth Advisors and kind of what you do. Brent Orsuga [00:02:27]: Yeah, you hit it on the head. So based out in Scottsdale, Arizona. Originally from the Bay Area, Northern California, but been doing recruiting for 23 years and the last 16 of those solely within supply chain and logistics. So I am one of those people that kind of screams niches. I've always been taught riches are in the niches. And so I'm not a jack of all trades. I'm laser focused and as dangerous as possible in one area. But as we go on here and discuss myself and the business and everything, I think it's important to know I'm still in it. Brent Orsuga [00:02:59]: Like as of this morning, I'm still negotiating deals and, you know, working through candidates and interviews and everything else. So the lens that I come from is a very active live one here in 2025. Kortney Harmon [00:03:12]: Love it now. So Pinnacle Growth Advisors, logistics. Is that what you specifically focus on? Tell me your niche. Brent Orsuga [00:03:18]: Yeah. So look, supply chain is a very broad term. I actually don't think anybody talked about it. So you couldn't get toilet paper in 2020 during COVID That's real talk. So look, here's the reality though. Everything comes on a truck. Everything. It is an industry that simply cannot go away. Brent Orsuga [00:03:36]: And I think a lot of us got exposed to that during that dynamic. So it's a trillion dollar industry that honestly I feel not a lot of people talk about. But here's the reality. How many Amazon packages do you get per week? Right. So everybody just clicks a button and stuff magically shows up at their door, but no one talks about all the moving parts behind the scenes that makes that a reality. So that's where I live, eat and breathe 24 7. Kortney Harmon [00:04:01]: I love it. And how long have Pinnacle Growth Advisors been around? Brent Orsuga [00:04:05]: Yeah, so started the company. Watch you turn 11 on May 1st. So here in a couple weeks. And started from nothing. I mean, like a lot of people within this space had a situation occur where life kind of threw me a curveball. And within 48 hours I started a business. And I mean from nothing like sitting in a spare bedroom. No agreements, no contracts, no clients at the time, no business plan, no cash reserves. Brent Orsuga [00:04:31]: I mean nothing. So when I sit here and speak about the last decade, it's from a lens like a lot of people of no plan B, forced to win, all gas, no brakes. I mean literally from the mud. Kortney Harmon [00:04:44]: And now tell me where you are today. Tell me a little bit about the stance of your company. From nothing to today. What is that? Brent Orsuga [00:04:50]: Yeah, look, we've been able to grow tremendously over the past couple of years. You mentioned some of the accolades that we've been able to achieve. Multiple seven figure business. As far as this goes, obviously still within that niche, have recruiters that help me expand our Services across the country as well as US and even Mexico now. And so just been playing this sport for a long time. We just continue to grow and scale. But consistency to me has been the name of the game I love. Kortney Harmon [00:05:16]: And now you're getting into speaking more and talking to the industry about your knowledge, your stance, what got you into this passion of flipping and talking to the industry itself. Brent Orsuga [00:05:29]: I think there's a good story there. I think when you literally start from zero and all the lessons that you learn over the decade is stuff that people can, you know, take value from. And that's really important to me. Like, I've always wanted to learn from other people that have done something that I'm trying to do. So for me, I just always try to give back because some of the things I've gone through over the past decade, if you would have told me in 2014, hey, you're going to go through these things, I would have said, no way, that's not going to happen. But the reality is you can read all the books, listen to all the podcasts, until you go through some of these events firsthand, you got to be mentally prepared to be able to navigate those waters. So if I can give back to people and be like, hey, did you think about this? This may occur and it saves people some time or money, I'm all for it because I wish I had that sometimes too. Kortney Harmon [00:06:20]: I love it. I got a chance to listen to you, obviously on Benjamin Mena's Rock the Earth Summit. I heard you talk about the sharp distinction between influencer versus person of influence in recruiting. Talk to me a little bit more about that, the practical differences, how it impacts your business results. The influencer is the word of like the year or two, because people think that they have to be that. But I loved your stance on this. So tell me a little bit more about it. Brent Orsuga [00:06:48]: That was a really big, successful talk and I think it resonated with a lot of people because here's the reality. In 2025, you have to have a personal brand. It's not even an option. It's a necessity to be able to kind of stick out. But what I've seen is people do it the right way. And I've seen some people not necessarily take the right approach. To me, when I think of an influencer, I think of somebody who is kind of self serving. Honestly, they're chasing likes for their own dopamine hit. Brent Orsuga [00:07:17]: Right? You'll see selfies and you'll see people do all these things. But how is that of value to the marketplace. LinkedIn as an example, is an amazing platform. I've built my entire business on that platform. My mindset was I want to be a person of influence consistently in the feed, I want to be able to give value. What am I reading, what am I hearing? What industry knowledge can I share with my community and or audience to make them better? And if I do that consistently in the feed, I will be a person of influence, which obviously is going to give me a level of respect back. Two people know that I know my stuff, right? I'm doing stuff behind the scenes to educate myself, which in turn, whether it be with clients or candidates, I now become a trusted voice and advisor because I'm a dialed in and giving value constantly. That's so much different than trying to make some memes or entertain people, right? I'm trying to educate and encourage and that's a big thing too. Brent Orsuga [00:08:20]: Kortney. I was always taught when you're going to do content, you got to focus on three E's. I have to educate people, I have to encourage people, or I have to entertain. Now, I'm not necessarily the entertain guy, but I can be really dangerous in those other two. Kortney Harmon [00:08:35]: I love that. Now have you seen that approach that you're taking because it seems like you live what you talk about? Have you seen that make an impact on your business? Brent Orsuga [00:08:44]: 100% LinkedIn to me as an inbound machine. Because if you really study the content that I do, I'm really consistent to intentionally to attract certain things in. If I'm just posting stuff around selfies or memes or making people laugh, what in turn am I really attracting and drawing into myself? But if everything I talk about is high performance, right? Culture, leadership, early morning showing, a day in the life of even myself and giving value to others, what do you think I'm going to get in return? Life is a boomerang. What you put out, you get back. And I think again, if people were more conscious about that, they would be more conscious of what they actually deliver to the marketplace. And in the feed, if you treat that platform the right way, it will treat you so well in return. Just be so conscious of that. Kortney Harmon [00:09:36]: I love that you say that. You made another statement that correct me if I say it wrong. And you stated that if you are casual, you will be a casualty in today's recruiting landscape. Tell me, what separates casual recruiters from those who are winning at high levels in today's market? Brent Orsuga [00:09:54]: Look, I think to me, recruiting, no matter how long you've done this is still A contact sport, you have to touch a lot of shoulders. I think people grossly underestimate, especially new recruiters, how much contact they have to do from an outbound standpoint. I call it offense and defense. A lot of people are playing defense, they're passive, they wait for stuff to come to them. I am all offense, all the time. I'm always doing business development, I'm always sending out messages, I'm always tapping shoulders. I'm building out my own so called book of business or network because you never know when you're going to lean into these people. To me, there are no wasted calls. Brent Orsuga [00:10:35]: I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to seven, eight years ago that I've placed in the last 12 months. But they've been on my radar, they've been top of mind. I've continually checked in. So again, to go back to that quote, I think people are casual. I think now they're looking for automation, shortcuts, AI, they're trying to cut corners. And that's not how this business works. Be a person of value, be do more touches than you think. And you have to be very, very aggressive in your approach. Kortney Harmon [00:11:06]: I love that you said that because I'm going to tell you, I saw firsthand, I was still a trainer in this industry when Covid hit and people are like, oh my gosh, I have too many job orders. Like I, I, I don't, I don't need job orders. I just can't find the people. So I've got to go back to that. And then obviously our business is cyclical and we've gotten to the point where people are like, I can't find job orders. Well, you stop doing it three years ago or five years ago and you've not flexed that muscle. It's no different than athletics. It's no different than building a muscle. Kortney Harmon [00:11:36]: You have to develop it and continue to develop it. So I love that you talk. I do everything all the time. Brent Orsuga [00:11:41]: Well, and here's the thing too, especially with new recruiters, you kind of have to pay your dues. You might not necessarily walk into the most powerful logos within your industry, the top 50 players, whatever the case may be so selfishly and self listly, you almost have to start to use those other companies as repetitions. That's all this is. After 23 years in recruiting, I have a lot more repetitions than a lot of people. That means I've gone through counteroffers, I've gone through negotiations, I've had people burn me. I'VE had a lot of wins, I've had a lot of losses. I've had a lot of experience, which in turn again makes me dangerous here 23 years later. A lot of people want the quick fix, they want it now, they want the overnight success. Brent Orsuga [00:12:26]: And that's just simply not how any industry, especially recruiting, works. You have to understand this too, Kortney. We have the only product that has a brain. Think about it. This is more challenging than people think. Mortgages don't talk back. Insurance doesn't have to talk to a wife. Cars don't go in and quit and get a counteroffer. Brent Orsuga [00:12:49]: Think about it. This is human psychology. You may call us recruiters, you know what we really are. Geez. Therapists, financial advisors, life coaches. Right. I can go on and on and on. So you can bring all the AI you want into the game. Brent Orsuga [00:13:05]: There still has to be this human to human dynamic and you better believe I'm going to master that. Kortney Harmon [00:13:10]: I love that. And yes, not saying that we shouldn't use AI, we shouldn't use tools, but don't think that's your shortcut, your easy button to get things done to win business, because that's not how it works. Brent Orsuga [00:13:21]: And look again, there's going to be so many scenarios where you have to coach these people. Think about prepping them on your client, which we can tap into too. How much do you really know about your client? Because even for me going back, you know, I've always lived off a motto. I'm really big in going and seeing these companies because my motto was always this. If I can see it, I can sell it. If I could see it, I could sell it. Meaning that I can walk into an office and I can use my own personal senses. What do I see, smell, touch, taste and hear? Literally, I can close my eyes, you can mention a logo and I can tell you exactly the layout of the office, what the leadership is like, their height, their energy level, their tonality, what you should expect being across them. Brent Orsuga [00:14:05]: Think how dangerous I am to a candidate. And think how many recruiters are telling people how great a restaurant is they've never even eaten at. You want me to compete against that? This, These are the little separating things that high performing seven figure billers are doing versus the average Joe's. This is real talk. Kortney Harmon [00:14:24]: But then to look at scale, that's how you're teaching your teams and building your teams to operate. So it's not just that individual rainmaker model, it's beyond that. Brent Orsuga [00:14:35]: Yeah. And you can do that at conferences. You can do it like I'll go to Chicago here in a couple months. I can go do 12 client visits in two days. You don't think that's valuable, right? Think how many people are just trying to win by looking at a job description. A static website, not really understanding the culture. So when a candidate comes to you, well, how would you describe the culture? Well, they're work hard, play hard. It's a very fun environment. Brent Orsuga [00:15:01]: Think about that now, what does that even mean? That's broad terms. That means nothing in the real world. When I can describe it, the energy, what I see, what I hear when I walk into the room, the caliber of people, are they polished? Is it loose? How do they dress? Is it an open floor plan? Is it a collaborative environment? Is it a bunch of people in an offices? If the client is not sharing that with you, how in turn can I be dangerous and share that with a candidate to prep them? You gotta understand there's a difference in recruiting and headhunting. You have got to be a boutique elite headhunter that knows how to go and steal people away. I think a lot of people try to be a job placement firm. Kortney Harmon [00:15:46]: They've got to get out of that mentality of a job placement firm. I love that. What a great stance. And honestly, it really should drive some self reflection on who do I want to be or who do I want my organization to be. In the sea of all of the staffing and recruiting organizations that are out there today, that is truly a differentiator. Brent Orsuga [00:16:05]: Well, and Kortney, I think we talked about this too. In recruiting, to me, you are judged and your identity and your brand is based on two things, the caliber of clients that you work with. And number two, my identity within my industry is based on who I show, the caliber of people that I show to a client. Because I've always had this mindset. Is this somebody they can't find on their own? Is this somebody they would pay a premium for? If I'm not two for two there, why would I even show that to a company? That's not what they need me for. You don't need me to take a job description, remove your company name, blast that out there, post and pray and wait for stuff to come to me. That is recruiting. I am headhunting. Brent Orsuga [00:16:55]: I'm going to go out because I know these companies so well. I know what's going to work there, I know what they want and I'm going to go hand deliver that to them on a golden platter. You don't think they're Going to come back for more and more of that. And you don't think that reputation is going to hit the streets. That's the difference. Kortney Harmon [00:17:14]: I want to ask you a question on that because as I trained the industry, I saw a lot of people go back to job boards every single time. Just like what you were talking about. How are you different? Do you go back to the well of your database because you know your candidates so well? Like you know your clients, what is your stance? Tell people how they stand out. Brent Orsuga [00:17:31]: You'll never see me post a job. Even if you look at the branding and content that I do, you never see me talk about jobs. I want to be a magnet for high performing, high performing companies, high performing candidates. Those are the only conversations I want. If you want the truth. I try to scare away average people. I don't even want to mess around with you. We don't speak the same language. Brent Orsuga [00:17:55]: Nothing you do resonates with me and I hope I don't resonate with you. Right. And so for me, again, I know these companies so well that I know what they're going to want to see in return. So sure, I can lead with an ATS over a decade plus of contacts and people. But you also have to know your industry and where to pull people from. You have to know your competitive advantages. You shouldn't start every search blindly. I shouldn't start every search from zero. Brent Orsuga [00:18:28]: This is again, there's no wasted calls. I always have to have a bench. I always have to be tapping shoulders, right? Going back to what we said so that I'm not just always on a Monday morning be like, well, geez, where do we start from Now? Kortney Harmon [00:18:45]: Recruiting is complex. Sometimes you just need a hand, someone beside you to give you that nudge to keep you on course. Introducing the new crelate copilot. Copilot is Creelate's AI assistant. But it's more than just artificial intelligence. Copilot brings you recruiter intelligence. Need a quick reminder to reply to a candidate's email? Or maybe you're stuck writing up that new job description. Need a nudge to send a follow up to that client who hasn't gotten back to you? Copilot is there to help you craft it effortlessly. Kortney Harmon [00:19:21]: With over 30 skills at your fingertips. Crelate copilot doesn't just keep you organized, it keeps you ahead of the game. Because recruiting isn't just about filling roles. It's about building relationships. And crelate copilot is the partner you've been waiting for. Check us out. And create the future of recruiting. Kortney Harmon [00:19:49]: I think you said companies can't miss right now. Brent Orsuga [00:19:53]: Yeah. Kortney Harmon [00:19:54]: Tell me more about that. What does that mean? What do companies need to be thinking about? What does they can't miss right now mean? Brent Orsuga [00:19:59]: Well, let's study the last four years you had 21 and 22, which was the post Covid explosion, right? Oh my goodness, we're blowing up. We need bodies, we can get creative. 23 and 24 was the complete opposite. It was a lot of layoffs, a lot of consolidation, a lot of tightening the belt, so to say. Right. We all experience this. And in 25, if there was a theme, to me, it's two things. Number one, I need what I need Bullseye Hire. Brent Orsuga [00:20:32]: I cannot miss. I can't get creative. The dollars that I need to spend are at a premium now. So I need a direct hit, number one. And number two, what I'm seeing is what I'm going to call upgrading, meaning that companies are now evaluating their roster, they're evaluating the talent they have, and I'm simply moving dollars around. I might not be in a hyper growth mode, but you know what? I'm paying this person a hundred, I'm paying this person a buck fifty. I feel like I can get better for that. So think about that. Brent Orsuga [00:21:06]: This is why head hunting, you should be busier than ever. Because we are in demand now that more than ever, companies need us now more than ever because they can't miss. They need a direct Bullseye hit. And I'm upgrading talent. And I'm asking myself, am I communicating the reality of the market to the clients that I serve? Because that's real talk of what the winning companies are doing right now. Kortney Harmon [00:21:32]: So it's not just a you need a job, affiliate job. It's hey, this is what people are doing. Let me help you walk through this process of upgrading your team like you're hands on with all of your clients. Brent Orsuga [00:21:41]: Yeah, because look, I mean, here's the other thing too. Companies are trying to get lean and mean. If there's a trend shift that we're seeing, it's number one, how many digital employees can I start to get? AKA AI, right? That's a real thing. And number two, maybe I don't need 50 people. What if I can just have 35 of the best people, 20, whatever the case may be, and we're moving the ball down the field, right? So again, I can't miss. I need Bullseye Hire and I need really good people to make that a reality. That's 20, 25. Kortney Harmon [00:22:15]: I love that. And as people are like, let's say like you talked about being so well versed in your niche. And I know that every, like in our world of executive recruiting, that's kind of all we talked about. Like niches make riches, same thing that you said. But it's really the idea there's a lot of people that don't do that well. But then there's also the organizations that are like I need to add a niche or I need to do this differently or I need to add a team. How do, how does someone go about the idea of I need to get more specific because let me tell you, I've seen some very specific niches in my day. Plastic injection, molding, only for medical only this like there's maybe only 600 candidates in the US but they are standout and they know every 600 of them. Brent Orsuga [00:23:00]: Yeah, I mean what I would do is I would start with an industry first. So think about in industry it can be insurance, it can be healthcare, it can be accounting, it can be supply chain. Like that's more broad within the industry. I can then sector myself down to a couple specific buckets. But what that's going to allow me to do is become a student of that industry. I am going to become fluent in what this industry does. But I might be able to be nimble in a couple different sectors. See the reality is even for myself, I talked about a trillion dollar industry. Brent Orsuga [00:23:35]: I really only play in three sectors of that. I help what they call asset based trucking companies. So that's what trucks on the road, those companies. I help what they call third party logistics or brokerages. Then I help freight technology. Think about that. Out of a trillion dollar industry, I've still narrowed it down, but there's so much Runway there and I own that space. I'm dangerous there. Brent Orsuga [00:23:58]: So when I go and talk to companies, they know that because I can speak the language and I can give them intel on what I'm seeing from other people, number one. And number two, when I talk to candidates, you know the answers are always in the questions. They know within one minute of speaking to me that I know my stuff. I can probably name drop, I'm going to ask specific questions, drop in certain verbiage that's going to resonate with them and that's how I separate myself just from another recruiter. Kortney Harmon [00:24:29]: Love it. And it's so true. We've all seen those recruiters that are recruiters and it's really just the you need someone to mow your lawn Let me help you or I can't say no to a job order that. That's like the first hard step for organizations to be like, I don't need to serve everything. I can't serve everything. I can't be everything to everyone. Brent Orsuga [00:24:48]: Again, it's the blind leading the blind. What is your real value? Now look, you may be able to get some wins here and there. Everything I'm talking about is how do you exceed at a very, very high level consistently, year after year, seven figure biller. There are different tactics, different habits, different disciplines, different methods that make that a reality. And guess who I talk to behind the scenes from my own recruiting community? Those people. That's who I want to know. What are you doing? What are you seeing? Right. So again, it's not as crowded at the top as you think. Kortney Harmon [00:25:24]: Okay, you put out a lot of content. I'm going to switch this for a second. So we talked about being a person of influence. We already talked about clients and how you do that and how you're, how you stand out differently. But you still put out a lot of content. So someone's going to be like, well, Brent wants to be an influencer too. Talk to me about what specific types of content that you found most effective for building genuine influence and or rather than just chasing vanity metrics for sure. Brent Orsuga [00:25:51]: Look, I show people because I think, look, recruiting is still a people business. People do business with people they like and trust. So they have to get to know you and how you operate. So if you really study my content, I guess I'm told it's unique. But I'll show you me playing basketball, me a girl, dad, me at industry events. Right. I'm going to show you the hustle, the 4am lifestyle, because again, that should stay speak to certain caliber of people, the people that I want to talk to. But I have to live it to be it. Brent Orsuga [00:26:23]: I have to be a product on the product. This is a real lifestyle that I live 24 7. So again, as I put out the content, I want to attract certain people in that that resonates with. Or they can say, you know what? I'm just like that dude. And I want to scare away the average. Do you really think I'm watching Netflix on Thursday nights? You think I'm sitting on my couch on Sunday afternoons? I can assure you I'm not. Go work with somebody else. Not me. Brent Orsuga [00:26:52]: So from a content standpoint, I'm showcasing that, number one. Number two, I've always again, come from the lens of value. How can I Educate and encourage people. And so I want to educate people on job interviews, counteroffers, industry trends, podcasts, books. Do you think I'm doing that for likes? Because what are my clients like results. That's what I care about. That's where my sole focus is now. Kortney Harmon [00:27:22]: Okay, so let's take it one step further. What is your expectation of your team to do that? Because many organizations are that, you know, that mid level organization and they want to grow, but like, they want to say, okay, how do I scale? How do I do better? How do I enforce my views onto my team to make them do the same thing as me? Because let's face it, they're not me. Brent Orsuga [00:27:42]: Yeah, look, everyone has to run their own race. You can't fake who you are. You can't fake the funk. You are who you are. And it's called personal brand for a reason. Now what I can do, like most leaders should do, is lead from the front, lead by example. I can share what has worked for me. But not everyone has that comfort level. Brent Orsuga [00:28:03]: Not everyone feels comfortable and confident on camera. Not everyone wants to put themselves out there. And that's fine. But you have to figure out what works for you. Now in turn, you may build your own little following and community as well. Right, and that's fine as well. There's no right or wrong. But you can't force people to do something. Brent Orsuga [00:28:22]: All you can do is show them what works and see if they gravitate towards that. Kortney Harmon [00:28:27]: Okay, so you're managing other recruiters in a team. I love metrics and I love, as I coach somebody, but like I hate the whole you have to be on the phone 72 minutes to get or whatever that looks like. And this is actually metrics that people are like, do I hold people accountable to how many connections they have on LinkedIn or what content they're putting out? Talk to me about metrics in your organization. What are you holding people accountable? What do you see moving your business forward? Brent Orsuga [00:28:54]: Results never lie. The scoreboard never lies. All this boils down to is, is you have. You can only control so many things. It's inputs and outputs. So all I focus on is how many presentations are you doing? Meaning, like how many people are you showing me? Because you don't need to do business development. If you're with me, I'll control that. I have too much business. Brent Orsuga [00:29:14]: But there should be ratios as well. So If I'm showing 10 and I get four placements, well, now I kind of know my hit rate, right? But I'm not Going to get four placements or know the data until I know how many presentations. So you can dumb this down and don't even overcomplicate it. You also have to understand in order to get 10 placements, how many people do I have to talk to? Everything to me is a math equation. But I don't know that data. If I'm doing 75 calls, but I'm only getting one good person out of there, something is off. Something is off. So that's a fake metric and a fake number that doesn't even give me the ROI that I want anyways. Brent Orsuga [00:29:48]: So I always focus purely on presentations and understanding and reverse engineering how we got there so that it's actually quality and not just quantity. Now we're going back to the spray and pray approach. What does it matter? Hang up, hang up, hang up. What does that mean? So now I can look at a chart and be like, well, you had talk time. You did 200 calls. Who cares? Doesn't matter. Be a sniper. I'd rather you do 10 really good calls per week than a hundred. Brent Orsuga [00:30:13]: Hang ups or just nonsense. Just to hit a metric means nothing. Kortney Harmon [00:30:17]: Not to mention as I was monitoring calls, I had people calling the White House and sitting on hold on the White House line or the Santa Claus hotline. You would be amazed, right? Just for people to get called time, they're like, well, this is what I'm being measured on. This is the industry to make money. And I love this industry. I am full 100% on board. But the fact that that's not the people that are driving, but those are the people that we're managing. Those are the people that we're trying to succeed. And that does not tell them if they're succeeding. Brent Orsuga [00:30:44]: No, no, I came up in that world, right? They used to an MRI network, which we know that, you know, big franchise model. And they used to every day at lunch put a poster up in the break room of what the talk time was. It was me and one other guy. I'll never forget Spencer, right? Because we were neck and neck and I would just be like, man, you're never going to beat me. You're never going to beat me. And he would inch closer. But what we would figure out is exactly what you're describing. Fake calls. Brent Orsuga [00:31:09]: Hang up. It was a fake stat where my stuff was real. In turn, my results were real, right? So again, the scoreboard never lies. People do. Kortney Harmon [00:31:19]: I love you. Focus on ratios. That's amazing. That's what helps people do better and succeed in this business. Brent Orsuga [00:31:25]: So, and I can take that one step further. I think as a firm owner, for me, the number that I become obsessed with because I don't play loose, everything I do is intentional. You don't see that on my phone. I have the exact revenue dollars, placements and average fee that I want. I immerse myself with this. I don't play loose on my tv, the same thing on my whiteboard. I'm very numbers driven. But the one number that can impact everything is my average fee. Brent Orsuga [00:31:56]: I obsess about that because let's just say that I want to do two and a half million dollars. Okay. My average fee is 25 grand. How many placements do I have to do? 100. Simple math. I dumb these numbers down. Now if I can increase that number, the less amount of deals that I do, if that number goes down now I got to do more deals. So I obsess about where are we at as far as that goes? And then I know how to reverse engineer and work away. Brent Orsuga [00:32:25]: Here's the other thing, Kortney. I work away is that that already happened. I don't pray, hope and wish. Very intentional. It's how I operate throughout the day. And I come from a massive expectation to win. I do not play loose ever. Never have, never will. Kortney Harmon [00:32:44]: Amazing. Okay, you mentioned creating documents around hiring trends. We go from the recruiter to the headhunter. In your terms, talk to me about content as you're sharing those trends with clients, what has been the most effective for positioning yourself? Let's face it, we have so many calls, we have so much information that our clients don't have. So I love that you're doing that. But talk to me about like what does that documentation look like? What are you sharing details with everyone else wants to know. Brent Orsuga [00:33:13]: Well, it goes back to the first two things that we talked about earlier. Being a person of value, where I have a trusted, respected voice that they're going to listen to me. And then number two, being an expert in my niche, I have to know what the heck I'm talking about. Which means I have to have a lot of trusted conversations. I deal with a lot of sales reps and so I'm able to share non confidential information without even mentioning who the company is. Hey, let me tell you what I'm seeing on the streets. Let me tell you about some of the deals that your competitors down the street, what they're paying, what their commission model looks like. Right? How they're doing a sliding scale, how they're giving sign on bonuses to people. Brent Orsuga [00:33:49]: I'm not even saying who the company is, but I'm giving a very high level lens into what it takes to win in 2025 that is of value to them. They don't know. They're not having the same conversations I'm having. They're not able to get in those four walls and understand what's really happening there. Is that proprietary information? No. Because you can talk to any sales rep there and they'll be able to tell you what it is. So when I can gather 10 of those examples and go to a client and be like, hey, let's examine where you are and let's really understand if we're being competitive. Because if you want to play ball and we got to pay to play to get the best talent, let's make sure we have all our ducks in a row. Brent Orsuga [00:34:29]: So now again, I'm a person of value to them and they're going to come back for more and more of that. That's so much different than I understand the job description. Happy hunting. Turn me loose. Recruiter, Headhunter. Which one are you? Kortney Harmon [00:34:45]: I love it. I have two more questions for you. I promise I won't take more of your time. You stated the difference between $500,000 biller and a million dollar biller comes down to the little things. I know we've already talked about some of these things, but if you had to pick the most impactful three things to do as the little things, what are the three things you're telling people to do to change their output quality. Brent Orsuga [00:35:09]: Of clients that you serve? Not wasting time on stuff that's never going to move across the finish line. Being very selective on the searches I take on. Number two, the caliber of people that I'm engaged with. Am I dealing with serious people who understand I am never going to help somebody go lateral ever. You deal with me, you're getting a better gig. Have that trust and rapport. And number three, more people in your pipeline than you think. Because you can go from having 10 people in the mix down to four. Brent Orsuga [00:35:52]: Like. Like that. I can go from four to zero in 24 hours. And the reason that a lot of recruiters struggle is because they involve emotion. The reason recruiters get emotional is because they don't have enough in the pipeline and the hopper because they need the deal. The best thing that you can ever learn in sales is this. You have to be detached from, from the outcome. I have no emotion. Brent Orsuga [00:36:22]: If it happens, cool. If it doesn't, cool. I'm good either way because I trust myself that I did all the necessary steps. And I can sleep at night with that. When you have commission breath. I need the deal. I'm cutting corners, trying to put a square into a circle. You'll never win at a high level. Kortney Harmon [00:36:40]: What good advice. And that is so much of our industry. Brent Orsuga [00:36:44]: I know. That's why I don't think it's ever been easier to win. Kortney Harmon [00:36:47]: Yeah. And okay, I love those three things. Those are great pieces. And it's like, as you're talking about this, like, it's slow down to speed up. You need to slow down to be more intentional. You need to slow down to get the best quality of job orders of clients. Level those up. Do an honest evaluation of who you have today. Kortney Harmon [00:37:05]: Because oftentimes we just put them in the database and we forget about them or we decide to have a conversation. But we never truly do a true assessment of where are they, what kind of revenue am I getting from them? How do I get deeper in that organization? And I see that a lot. Brent Orsuga [00:37:21]: Yeah. Look, it goes back to, I call you, you're either spraying and praying or you're a sniper. Think about like the movies, right? Someone grabs a gun and they're shooting all over the place, just leaving a trail and a mess behind them. Right. They're praying, hoping, and wishing they hit something. Usually they don't. What does a sniper do? One shot, lock in, and I hit it. And there's a massive difference in how you approach your day. Brent Orsuga [00:37:44]: Your clients, your candidates, your conversations, what you post. Again, slow down and refocus on where you can be dangerous. Kortney Harmon [00:37:54]: And it sounds so silly, but snipers. My father was a sniper in the Marines. And it's like you're focused on your breathing, you're focused on your location, you're focused on the. But same thing. It's your focus on your industry and the specific place that you are and the specific people that you're working. Such a good analogy. Brent Orsuga [00:38:11]: That's the approach I take on every call. Every call. I might only have 10 or 15 minutes with these people. That's a very intentional 10 or 15 minutes. I'm not distracted. I'm not on my phone. To me, that is a presentation. They are getting the best version of me because people are going to have an experience. Brent Orsuga [00:38:29]: Experience with you. Candidates are going to have an experience with you. Companies are going to have an experience with you. How conscious of. Of that are you every time you get on the phone with somebody? Kortney Harmon [00:38:40]: Great. Love it. You talked about business development. You talked about. That's obviously your passion and kind of where you live, anybody. And I don't want to just talk about new recruiters because, let's face it, even more senior recruiters are struggling with business development right now or scaling their teams or we went from 2024, the year of survive till 25. Well, we're here. Dang it. Kortney Harmon [00:39:00]: What are you doing to win? So talk to me about business development, and then what is your advice for quickly establishing credibility in your chosen niches if maybe you don't have clients or you're not in that, like, you're not existing with them today? Brent Orsuga [00:39:14]: Well, number one, the best way to get new clients is through results. The streets talk, right? But you can't huff and puff how great you are if you don't have those results. I think a lot of people are proclaiming to be something that they're not. And so you have to first deliver in order to get more. And once you deliver, now I have a story. Now I have a narrative. Let me tell you some examples, Mr. XYZ company of some people that I've helped, very similar to you. Brent Orsuga [00:39:46]: Does that sound like something you can benefit from? And honestly, is it really that hard to get a contingent agreement in 2025? Think about it. But you have to take the right approach. I'm not coming in to replace your HR department. I want to be a partner, not a vendor. And you have to be able to clearly identify the two. When I am a partner to a company, I am an extension of them. They want me on the streets, sniffing around, talking on their behalf. When I'm a vendor, they're going to treat me like that. Brent Orsuga [00:40:17]: It's price conscious. I'll get to it when I get to it. They don't respect me. When I send over a candidate 100% of the time, set it up, they don't question me again. Sniper, not spray and pray. I am a trusted partner and advisor to them. That's very important within the marketplace. On the flip side, I'll give somebody a really good tip if they're trying to do business development. Brent Orsuga [00:40:43]: This is what I used to do back in the day. Sometimes I'll still do it. I'll contact these companies and again, I'll let them know this. I am so dialed into this industry. This is all I do. This is the only sport I play. In the last couple weeks, I've had a couple people in my network ask me specifically about you. And if I partner with you, it caught my attention. Brent Orsuga [00:41:03]: And I would love to hear what you guys are doing over there because the streets are talking number one. And number two, worst case, I would love to tell you what I'm seeing on the street from candidates and maybe that can be of value to you. So it's a win, win. Think about that. Kortney Harmon [00:41:19]: You just created mass FOMO for anybody listening to that conversation, I want to talk to you just because what are people saying about me? Brent Orsuga [00:41:26]: I make it very hard for people to tell me no. I make it very hard for them to be like, no, I don't want that guy in my corner. Because here's the reality too. You don't ever want to take this approach. Either I help you or I have the option to take from you. And I promise you, I'm a better friend than a foe. You do not want someone like me coming after your people. I can assure you that. Brent Orsuga [00:41:49]: Now, you never want to take that approach with people. But I make it very adamantly clear that I am somebody that you want on the team behind the scenes as a sniper representing your company. Kortney Harmon [00:42:01]: I love it. My last question, I said two and I'm going to throw a third one because just if you're a new, unique position with AI, AI is something that we're all dealing with. We're all learning. It's. We're pedal to the metal while we're learning to drive the car. How do you encourage recruiters to think about AI in their future job? Because you said there's still a human element and we don't need to rely on this. But talk to me, what role does it play? Brent Orsuga [00:42:28]: Look, here's the reality. We're the guinea pig generation for this. No one knows, you know, how many emails I get per day on the newest tool, the newest hack, and this and that. Where I think it could be of value is from, yes, a sourcing standpoint. There can be some automation around setting up messages that I may still create when those go out. Right. Like, that dynamic would be awesome. Because here's the reality, too. Brent Orsuga [00:42:55]: I don't think there's any recruiter that wouldn't just love to walk in to 10 set calls per day and just let me get on the phone, rip away and close. That is like my dream day. You don't think I'm trying to figure out how to make that a reality as well? Right. But the thing is, that might only be 30, 40% of the process. I still have to know my industry. I have to know my clients. I have to be fluent in whatever industry I'm playing in. I have to be able to connect with people. Brent Orsuga [00:43:24]: I have to be Able to ask questions. I have to be able to build trust. I have to be able to filter out what is good versus bad. What do my clients want? They don't want average. If I show them average, I now become an average recruiter. I'm only as dangerous as the people that I show. I'm still going to always play at a high level and AI is not going to replace us. It may benefit us, but trust me, we're not going anywhere. Brent Orsuga [00:43:47]: Because why? We have the only product that has a brain. You tell me there's a robot that can coach someone and role play them through a counteroffer. You tell me there's a robot that can tell you how to go negotiate another 50 grand on a deal and get a sign on bonus. You tell me there's a robot that can tell you how to navigate a non solicit or non compete. You tell me there's a robot that can tell you a story of how I helped their friend and how I get these testimonials about changing people's lives. Because here's the reality, Kortney and I'll leave us on this. There's three major decisions people have in their life. Where they live, who they're in a relationship with and where they work. Brent Orsuga [00:44:27]: I don't take this lightly. If I'm going to impact one of those things, you better believe I take recruiting and head hunting and somebody's career very, very serious. You can put me against a robot any day because I'm going to care a little bit differently and treat every experience different. Kortney Harmon [00:44:45]: I love that. And you can see, you can see your passion and how you talk and how you go to bat for people. So Brent, you're truly, like I said, a heavyweight in this industry and I can't wait to continue to watch your success and I will link your LinkedIn profile in our show notes so people can connect with you. Thank you so much for spending your time and just giving your insights and a different view of our industry and how you they should be doing things differently. So thank you so much for your time today. Brent Orsuga [00:45:13]: I appreciate you having me on. I hope we give some value to some people. I think we did. Kortney Harmon [00:45:16]: I think there is no doubt in my mind that someone's going to take away to be like okay, I need to be doing that differently or I need to step up differently. So thank you for that. And until next time, we'll, we'll see you next time on the full desk experience. I'm Kortney Harmon with crelate. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Industry Industry Spotlight, a new series from the Full Desk Experience. New episodes will be dropping monthly. Be sure you're subscribed to our podcast so you can catch the next Industry Spotlight episode and all episodes of the Full Desk Experience here or wherever you listen.