Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Don't Complain About Doing Stuff That You Would Hope To Keep Doing After Divorce!

Transcript

Don't Complain About Doing Stuff That You Would Hope To Keep Doing After Divorce! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
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  Psych mom show today, I am going to talk about why not to
• 0:11
  complain about stuff that you would actually want to do if you
• 0:14
  got divorced and how this could be a helpful lens through which
• 0:18
  to view your contributions at home, as well as a helpful way
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  to zoom out and see on a macro level, whether you're
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  complaining about stuff that you don't want to really complain
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  about. Because it's not honest before
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  that, please do subscribe, my most recent subscriber episode
• 0:33
  was about what I call the stupid man.
• 0:35
  Cold idea. So if you want, if you've ever
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  used the term man, cold, then you should listen to that, you
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  know, subscriber only episode. Okay, so what do I mean by you
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  shouldn't complain about stuff that you would want to do after
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  the divorce. So when people get divorced, all
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  of a sudden, it's like a lot of their emotional labor stuff goes
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  out the window. So for example, women who are
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  complaining about doing everything related, to picking
• 0:58
  the kids activities and, you know, deciding this or deciding
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  that for the children, they want to decide everything they're
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  like. Really quite quite upset.
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  If they don't get to decide things because they actually
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  wanted all along to be the one who is deciding shit for the
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  kids. This isn't everybody.
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  But, I mean, it's, it's quite honestly everybody.
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  I've met and I work with hundreds of people, but I mean,
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  there must be some women somewhere that are like, phew.
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  I'm divorced. Ever get to pick an activity for
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  the kids again, but I really don't see those people because I
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  don't think many of them exist and similarly, like, a lot of
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  women complain about the holidays.
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  Let's say before they get divorced when they're still
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  married and then afterwards, they just wish that they had
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  like every holiday with the kids, of course, you know,
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  they're good people, they don't necessarily want the kid to
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  never see Dad on Christmas, but like, if somehow magically, they
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  could have two Christmases that were both really Christmas.
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  Then, you know, for sure they would want every, every one of
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  those and all of a sudden, the planning and Stuff for holidays,
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  or Thanksgiving, or Christmas, or whatever.
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  Does not turn into a big deal. It's not because there's half of
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  them. It's Because you realize that
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  you could be caught. And the reason I say that is
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  because when you get another one, like if, you know, the the
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  woman ends up with an extra Thanksgiving because the guy is
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  going out of town with his new wife or whatever the case may
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  be. You know, she's thrilled.
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  She's not like that mother fucker.
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  I didn't want Thanksgiving this year.
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  I just had Thanksgiving like that.
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  Like does not happen instead the women are like really excited to
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  have the kids more, you know. So you got to really I think
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  about this, the reason that this could be a really helpful frame,
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  as you don't want to ruin your marriage, you don't want to
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  sacrifice it on the altar of lies and you're not lying
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  purposefully or maliciously, you're lying unconsciously
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  there, the lies are you're lying to yourself.
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  You're deluding yourself in many ways and you're saying that
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  certain things are just beyond the pale and totally that you
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  totally can't deal with them. When in reality there may be
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  some things like that but they're not all the Things that
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  you think are like that because after divorce, this goes so
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  differently for so many people that I must conclude that before
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  divorce. It would be useful for them to
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  recognize that a lot of the shit that they're complaining about
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  is actually stuff that they actually like to do, which could
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  help you from ruining your marriage and real-time because
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  you could stop complaining about so much stuff.
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  Obviously, you know, both genders are can complain about a
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  lot of stuff, but the difference seems to be That after divorce
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  the stuff that men complained about.
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  It's not like they realize that you know that that actually like
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  it wasn't so bad. You know II don't.
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  I don't see that a lot, you know.
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  I mean it's not like men are like oh like we never had sex.
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  And you know what? Now that I'm divorced, I
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  realized I never wanted sex like that's just what Society was
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  telling me. In fact, I wish I was back in
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  that sexless marriage. No, nobody says that, you know,
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  or they're like, you know, my wife was really, you know,
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  anxious and Jaden man, I miss it.
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  You know, like I never knew how useful that was that just
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  doesn't happen as much as like women.
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  Like to tell themselves because anxiety is and ego-syntonic
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  disorder, which means that it makes you feel good about
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  yourself versus he go disc. Tonic, I think I've discussed
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  this before like, depression. Nobody wants a feel depressed.
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  No, everything's being depressed, makes you a better
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  worker. But plenty of people think in
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  accurately that being anxious, makes them a better worker in
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  reality. They're talking about
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  conscientious which does not. I mean, generalized anxiety
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  disorder. You know.
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  But anyway, the basically what I see is that after they divorce,
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  there's a lot of guys that are not still fighting about the
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  same things, but there's a lot of women who have all of a
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  sudden flipped on certain things and certain things that they
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  considered emotional labor. Let's say before turn into
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  things that they really, really want, you know, such as control
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  over what the children do or you know to pick Out what the kids
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  do for hobbies and for you know, Sports and what have you or they
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  want to be. In fact, they want to get all
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  the time that they can with the children even though they had
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  been complaining a lot about having too much time with the
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  children. So the the point that I'm making
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  here is not that, you know, I don't know what, you know,
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  people always can find some shit to complain about, right?
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  I mean that that's the topic but also like about my podcast.
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  But so you could say that I'm saying that men somehow know,
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  They want more than women do in this regard.
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  I mean, yeah, in this loan regard.
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  I mean I've said a million times, I even have like,
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  literally posed or maybe also a podcast.
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  That's like, here's six reasons, you don't really want a porn
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  star in bed. So like it's not like, I don't
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  say that men, don't know their own minds either, but in this
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  specific sense of saying, that certain things are emotionally
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  laborious and that you wish to see them over to your spouse.
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  That After divorce, very quickly becomes something that you don't
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  in fact, want to see to your spouse.
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  So, the reason that I'm bringing this up is because if you can
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  like kind of own that, then you could be actually happy to be in
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  a marriage where you get to be in charge of all the holiday
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  decorations or what the kids do for extracurriculars or planning
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  the Vacations, or whatever. The hell it is that you would
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  actually want to do after divorce and the list of you.
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  About the less likely it is that you'll actually get divorced.
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  So this is in service of saving marriages.
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  That don't really have to end because people are kind of being
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  more honest and truthful with themselves about what you know,
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  what they do and don't like and may look at it as like an actual
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  positive in this marriage. For example, a woman would say
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  in this marriage. I am lucky because I get to make
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  the decisions about everything that the kids do, which is
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  something that when I think about it, I really would want to
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  do if we got divorced, I would want To do that.
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  This is a thing that I like to do, I don't necessarily think
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  that my husband understands what the kids need with their
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  development and their, you know, hobbies and their interest.
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  I don't think he knows that stuff as well as me.
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  I love to do that stuff. If I'm honest with myself, I
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  love it. And I love to figure out this
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  year that they should do. Do I what I love to have like an
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  amanuensis who I just tell Bobby likes baseball and has, you
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  know, freedom on Tuesdays at 4:30 and then they look it up
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  for me. Yeah, I would Like to have such
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  a virtual assistant, you know? But if my husband doesn't do
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  that for me it is in fact better net that I both make the
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  decisions and do the work for it then that I don't get to make
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  the decisions. I mean this is this is kind of,
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  you know, you would have to really be objective and kind of
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  know yourself very well and I've written about this topic a lot
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  where like I have a post called do you really want to split all
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  household decisions with your husband or are you lying, you
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  know, which is as per usual I direct and really, you know,
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  summarizes what I'm saying, which is most women after
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  divorce. Want to know what the kids are
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  doing. They want to be in charge of
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  what the kids do, eat, how they live everything.
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  I've never met a woman who is like, you know what, they just
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  go to their dads and I'm like awesome because I'm just 100%
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  thrilled at everything he chooses to do and, you know,
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  it's probably better than at my house.
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  Like nobody says that, like I'm being real with you, you know?
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  No. Nobody says it, nobody thinks it
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  if there was like an ideal world where you would get to also
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  choose what happens at his house, you know, that women
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  would take it like, 95% of women would take it.
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  So therefore, you're already in that situation, you know, by
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  being married. So you're already getting to
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  choose all that shit that you would want to choose anyway,
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  afterwards. So it could be good to
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  appreciate that situation. I'm gonna take you may not have
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  other reasons to divorce. Obviously I'm divorced, you
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  know. Absurdly not saying people ought
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  to stay in very unhappy on fulfilling relationships with
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  hostility and conflict, because they would like to make the
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  choice about what the children eat.
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  But what I'm saying is this, don't say to yourself, don't lie
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  to yourself, is basically a big preceptive.
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  What I, you know, talk about and how I try to, you know, to
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  instruct, you know, clients and listeners and readers and
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  everything. You got to be true to yourself
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  because there are some people particularly Highly anxious.
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  And, or conscientious people that love to have the control,
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  but they just kind of get caught up.
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  But they're very, very tired, because anxiety does make you
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  tired? And so, then they say that maybe
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  they're tired because they're not splitting decisions but they
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  don't want to split the decisions and in fact, divorce
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  will lead to so much stress because then you really have to
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  split the decisions and now you don't have to split the
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  decisions because if you're an anxious woman, you probably were
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  drawn to some Was ADHD or who's kind of passive?
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  Because that was the guy that you got along with best and you
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  got to pick all of these different things.
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  So is this saying that he shouldn't help in the house?
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  Of course, he should help in the house?
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  No nothing. It never would.
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  I say that a man should not parents his own children, but
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  what I'm saying is know thyself and If thy self likes to make
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  all the decisions, you know don't complain literally about
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  that aspect because in a worse case scenario you just kind of
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  bitching and moaning about Out it and you're deciding that
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  you're not gonna have sex with your husband, because fuck him.
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  Because he doesn't take over half the decisions and then in
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  like a tragic, fucking plot twist, you know, you figure out
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  that like, you actually wanted to make all the decisions and
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  everybody around you even knew that, but was too scared to say
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  anything. And like, you weren't having sex
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  with him because of your own idea that he ought to be doing
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  something that you didn't even want him to do.
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  And that actually happens, like, this isn't like a, this isn't
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  like a parable like like Happens a lot.
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  You know where after therapy women are like oh I guess I
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  really do like to decide where we go what we do and how we
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  live. You know.
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  So I you know I'm not going to be unfair to him and tell him
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  that the problem and the reason that I'm not into him has to be
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  that he doesn't make half the decisions because I don't
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  actually wanted to make half the decisions you know and maybe I'm
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  not into him because I'll some other thing like he kisses like
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  a fish because I never trained them how to french?
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  Kiss me or Or my hormones are in the toilet because I'm 49 or,
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  you know, I've never dressed my sexual trauma history.
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  So I don't want to sleep with him or maybe he's just a fucking
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  asshole, you know, and he's like an asshole and all these other
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  different ways, but they don't really have to do with the fact
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  that I somehow want him to take over half of the what the kids
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  should eat. Because I want to know, 100%
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  what the kids should eat, because that's like something I
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  get off on as a mom. You know, I'd like so many women
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  are like that, but they kind of do No it till it's too late and
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  it stops them from working on the marriage in a real honest.
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  Kind of way. I'm look so against this whole,
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  emotional labor Paradigm, I feel it.
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  It's like fucked people because ironically, I just saw one of my
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  few negative reviews on my podcast.
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  Thank you guys. All for the positive reviews was
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  that I curse like a sailor? Well, I'll tell you, this is
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  this is our free thing. I have never gonna do something
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  that I don't want to do for some free content that I'm putting
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  out of the universe. So, Just sit there and remember
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  not to curse. So I applaud those of you who
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  can roll with it, and those of you who cannot I am sorry, but
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  you're probably not listening anyway anymore.
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  But the point is this, if you are, if you real about what you
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  need and what you don't need, then the whole world opens up
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  your whole marriage is so much easier to work on your whole
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  life becomes clearer. So the emotional labor
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  framework, there's like a bunch of women out there saying I'm so
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  mad that I have to like, do Christmas cards.
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  Year and the he doesn't do half of it.
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  Which half? Is he going to do?
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  Is he going to pick out the photographer?
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  You don't want to pick the photographer?
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  Is he going to pick the clothes? You wear for the photoshoot?
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  You don't want that either. Is he gonna do the text of the
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  card? You don't think that he's as
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  funny as you and then, on top of it, why not in Turkey?
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  Why you even want to do this Maelstrom of stress?
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  Who the fuck is to do it anyway? None of that stuff even gets
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  interrogated. If you take the emotion to the
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  intellectually, lazy shortcut of calling it unwanted.
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  Emotional labor, you know. So, I mean, that's, that's how I
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  feel about it. Other people feel differently.
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  Of course, you could find the way that they feel with any
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  cursory Google search. So, I am the lone, you know,
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  voice in the wilderness against this idea.
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  And again, do I think men should do stuff in the house,
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  indubitably. I think they should do anything
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  in the house possible. Sure, sure.
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  I talk all the time about how much my husband does around the
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  house. Why do you think I'm able to
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  record release podcasts? Because my husband does so much
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  stuff in the damn house. In this wonderful and it helps
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  me super much and I don't criticize what he does because
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  then I wouldn't be able to record these podcasts or really
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  do anything else if I was too busy doing shit.
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  But if you are the sort of person that that thinks that you
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  doing stuff is only because your husband doesn't do stuff, then
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  you should listen to like a zillion on my podcast.
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  That talks about what that's a dynamic, you know.
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  Very very few men can't do anything in.
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  The house. Unless, of course, you know, and
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  this would be on you, you married, somebody who was
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  basically living in like a hoarded apartment?
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  Like, you know, like like a raccoon and you married him
• 14:46
  anyway. Well, then that shits on you and
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  you know, we all make mistakes when we're young but but if he's
• 14:53
  a functioning human being, you are all over functioning.
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  So really, I should have really said this at first, this goes
• 14:59
  out to the over functioning women that then are like crying,
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  emotional labor, Shit that they would beg to do and fight over
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  doing and put in separation agreements to do or wish that
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  they could when they were divorced.
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  So try to think about that. Try to think about how much you
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  love to be invested in every aspect of the children's
• 15:21
  existence before a you should all over, you know, your
• 15:26
  husband, for letting you do that thing that you like doing and be
• 15:30
  like, you got to understand that was a personality type and it
• 15:33
  led you to marry somebody who Would let you be the
• 15:36
  front-runner on that and also you don't have to do any of it
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  because believe me your husband's not asking you to do
• 15:42
  it and the kids don't know shit. So if you decide that in your
• 15:45
  house, Christmas is going to be, you know, a fake tree that goes
• 15:48
  up the day before. Cool.
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  Ain't nobody gonna complain except you and then you'll get
• 15:54
  used to it and you'll be like, wow, this save me a lot of shit.
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  Etc. So, you know, this is just a
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  different lens and you should always kind of view it like
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  this. You should say, would I be
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  happier after divorce? This issue, you know, or would I
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  not, would it, would it impact make it worse?
• 16:09
  Because would make it worse, then?
• 16:11
  Yeah, I mean we could kind of deal with things within the
• 16:13
  marriage but I shouldn't complain about it and like even
• 16:15
  threatened divorce over it if after divorce, when I really
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  think about it, this is some shit I would actually have
• 16:21
  wanted to do, you know. So you, so you see my point and
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  it's a different lens. My goal is always to give you a
• 16:27
  different lens in a different perspective.
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  Hopefully, a new one at an interesting one, and I and now,
• 16:33
  you know, I'm going to think I'm going to get It off and I'm
• 16:35
  going to think and then I'm going to record if I could think
• 16:37
  about anything that's like this for men in this specific thing
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  and then I'll give you a PS. Sometimes I give a PS.
• 16:43
  So I'm going to do that right now.
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  I thought of it PS PS, the one that's the equivalent for men.
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  Goes back to the home project idea.
• 16:52
  I talked a lot about that. Women love home project, and you
• 16:55
  should probably get on board and come from a place of yes,
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  because this is how many women have a creative outlet and they
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  love the Home Project. Okay.
• 17:02
  Fine. So a lot of men forget To think,
• 17:06
  okay. I don't want to spend ten
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  thousand dollars on you know yet sprucing up the kitchen do I
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  want to divide up half of our assets and give alimony?
• 17:17
  And if we are in a state that has it plus child support plus
• 17:20
  run to households and on top of that be trying to save for my
• 17:22
  kids college. Would that be a bit more
• 17:24
  expensive than these fucking ten thousand dollars?
• 17:26
  Yeah it would I say that all the time by the way was couples
• 17:29
  counseling. I'm like what's cheaper is it is
• 17:31
  divorce cheaper is coming to see me cheaper, you know or or
• 17:35
  Whoever else. So the point is that, here's one
• 17:38
  that guy's really have to think about 24 when they are not being
• 17:42
  very flexible financially at, it said they're making her count
• 17:45
  every penny and this and that what about after divorce.
• 17:48
  That's going to take a lot more money right there.
• 17:51
  So maybe go into the home repair with a smile, on your face
• 17:55
  thinking. At least it's not a fucking
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  divorce, same thing as emotional labor for women, same thing as
• 18:01
  that. Do you really really in fact
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  it's not it's not, Actly the same thing.
• 18:06
  I don't need to go into why the analogy doesn't hold completely.
• 18:10
  But either way, it's the sort of thing where the lens needs to be
• 18:14
  would things be better after divorce in this regard if not
• 18:17
  perhaps it's not quite so bad. Now, as I thought.
• 18:20
  All right I was going to say good work guys because I say
• 18:23
  that at the end of some of my sessions and but this is not a
• 18:26
  session, I will talk to everybody soon.
• 18:28
  Have a great day.