Latest / The Marketing Brief / Ramon & Brian Discuss Storytelling and How to Emotionally Connect with Consumers (S2 E14)
Transcript
- Brian: Hello, and welcome back to the Marketing Brief Podcast. I am your host, Brian Aquan. And this is, of course, the podcast where we talk about anything and everything across the marketing landscape. Of course, I can't do that myself. so we hit so we always bring in an industry expert, and we're very excited to have Ramon Soto join us today. Ramon, welcome into the podcast. Ramon Soto: Pleasure to be here today. Looking forward to some rich conversation on marketing specific Brian: Absolutely. And you'll have to guide me on the healthcare. It's not something I have a ton of Ramon Soto: Yeah, no troubles. I don't I don't think there's many people who are really fans of health system marketing. But I I I do think after our conversation you'll see there's a different way to engage consumers in a really fundamentally profound, exciting and interesting fashion. Brian: Absolutely. And that's what I thought was so exciting about having you on. I mean, you've done a ton in the advertising space. you're on the ad council board, you're on the national advertising review, you're on the board at Yale and you lecture at Yale. So obviously you are steeped in advertising in New York, but you have a really interesting approach to how to engage consumers because you Ramon Soto: Yeah. Brian: run a studio, right? Ramon Soto: We do. Yeah. So let me tell you your audience a little bit about Northwell and maybe the why we do what we do, and Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: then I can get into a little bit the what. so I'm a marketer's marketer, I've been doing this for thirty plus years. I started in advertising, I did a stint, a long stint at General Electric. I ran marketing for a number of their businesses, and then ran ran global marketing for Aetna, the large insurance company. I've been with Northwell for about ten years. You know, what attracted me to this place was the need to really redefine storytelling and how we engage with consumers in healthcare. Northwell is the largest health system in the Metro New York market. we have about 110,000 employees, seven thousand docs, twenty-six thousand nurses. we treat six million New Yorkers a year, twenty-eight hospitals, you know, the numbers are are large. but more importantly, We take a little bit of a different perspective on how to take the journey of health with consumers. You know, healthcare they they talk in terms of episodes of care. Episodes of care, think about that. An episode. It sounds singular, but how you consume your care, your your health typically is over time and it means different things to you than it means to me. So we really try to take a longitudinal perspective. What does health mean at different stages, at different ages? over time. And then how do we show up differently and how do we show up in a really relevant fashion to engage with the consumer. And and once you take that mindset, it's a bit liberating. You know, you can move away from pictures of doctors and white coats and stethoscopes and you can think about what health enables your life, your love, your passion, your careers. And it becomes this really rich medium for storytelling. And then if you're brave enough, you can really try to differentiate yourself. So that led us to start a studio at Northwell where we've done eight projects to date and use the power of entertainment to engage with individuals, take advantage of this concept of fandom, where you're not just building fans, you're building super fans. But Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: all those people who use us for healthcare, we can tell their stories. We can talk about the really special doctors there they are, who deliver care. And we can use a big stage to do that storytelling. So we've done two projects with Netflix. We've done a project with HBO. we're in the midst of a project with A E. And yeah, it's led to this really unique model to shape the brand that we have in the New York market. Brian: Amazing. Am I right to assume that an episode of healthcare is viewed through the consumer? So it's the it's through a patient's eyes, like they they would have the episode. Ramon Soto: so if you're talking about the entertainment side of it, the studio side of it, the when we do let's take the first project we did with Netflix that was a nine episode docudrama. It really is on the Lennox Hill. That's right. Brian: This was the Lennox Hill one? Okay. Ramon Soto: that is unscripted content. So Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: part of the storyline is through the eyes of the doctor, part of it is through the eyes of the patient, part of it is through. The eyes of the team that comes to take care of the patient. but there are multiple patient stories and multiple physician stories going through any particular episode. And you'll see how they kind of weave and intersect. it really is rich rich storytelling. And that particular show in the first two months did about 40 million hours of viewership, translated into 54 languages and was accessible globally. And it's done done quite a bit for us to tell our s the story of our brand. on a broader stage. You know, we're geographically bound into the New York market and we can we can bust through that those geographic restraints on a national and international basis with platforms like this. Brian: The scope of that production kind of it makes my brain break a little bit. So you're actually shooting a reality show in a hospital. Ramon Soto: Yeah, and and you know, when people think reality show, you think of, you know, something filmed in Jersey. this this isn't it that. it's unscripted content, but it's real life to to use Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Ramon Soto: your vernacular. and that's why health systems shy away from it. Think about how hard that is to do. You know, you're filming Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Ramon Soto: in a clinical setting, you gotta worry about patient privacy, you gotta worry about patient safe safety, what What is it like to film in an operating room? It's actually quite restrictive. we've perfected all that process. you know, some of my best partners, and I dare any marketer say this, are my lawyers. you know, they work with us to really build tight protocols so we keep ourselves on the right side of of regulation. And of paramount Purpose is patient safety. Like the you you ha you cannot interfere with care delivery. So we use low impact film crews, we use rigging where we need to to capture content. it's really a low impact process, more run and gun style oriented. You know, these aren't multi-camera shots on on a stage. These are real life settings to deliver care. Brian: It's it's amazing. So when obviously you're selling this through to a number of stakeholders, what's the objective going in there of just like, hey, if we have this show that shows real life in our hospital, like, what do we think is gonna come out of this? Ramon Soto: Yeah, so we do it for two reasons. I'm a marketer, so I do it to build brand love, right? And so look there's a lot of convention in health system marketing. There's a lot of I'm number one, so come and see me. How many times can an organization be number one in US News World Report? It's amazing to see the the the language gymnastics that one's go that one goes through to to make the claim. At some point it becomes meaningless to a consumer. So we really do it to differentiate ourselves and to tell the story that I can't buy enough 30 second ads to tell. Right. So I can go, I can tell a storyline about a p particular doctor and a physician, particular patient, and expose, take the advantage of scarcity and expose all the really magical things that happen behind the glass that you never see. And create really compelling content behind that and offer it up to an audience. And we find so we treat the we tea treat each of our studios projects like Any campaign we measure everything. and our metrics are typically funnel based, very traditional marking metrics. and the those the efforts that we do on a studio size are twice as effective as any campaign. And so Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: the I just don't I don't build just people who like the content or like the ad. I build super fans. Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: And so it's quite effective as a marketing. Adjunct. It cannot replace your core advertising. These things, each project is 18 months in duration, so I can't do enough of them. but it's a wonderful supplement to my core marketing activity. The other reason we do it is to do good. So we talk about Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: socially important topics. you know, our last project with HBO was a show called One South, where we followed 20 plus college students who attempted suicide. Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: And that that is not everybody's cup of tea, but you know, if you think about the world in a post-pandemic era, you know, there's we have this confluence of pressures in a time of hyperchange, cultural pressures, social pressures, political pressures. And we do have this mental health crisis permeating through society. And it's for us, it's Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: really important to to talk about those social stories. And offer a stage to create a discussion and a debate and to inform. So this project with HBO, it's a two-episode docudrama, two hours of content in total. The first episode shows these kids in crisis. Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: And it's really, it's really it tears your heart out. The thing that Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: tears my heart out the most is you see how normal these kids look. They look like everyone else. Like you can't see Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: that there's something hurting inside. And the second hour is you see these kids in recovering and really thriving. And that's what we're trying to put forward. You know, the science is actually in a great place. If you can intervene early, you can have really great outcomes. But societally we have such issues with stigma and with access and An inability to have these discussions. So we were really quite proud and pleased with the collaboration with HBO. We had about two million people who saw the show, created quite a nice discussion in the marketplace. We think moved the needle. and then on the business side of it, I got a lot of brand love to do the show. Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: we had some people who saw the show who were very sympathetic to the issues the kids were going through. We had a a donor who helped us double the size of the program philanthropically, Brian: Wow. Ramon Soto: which was fabulous. So we got to treat more kids now. And and we got to to partake in this really important social conversation. Brian: So important. It I love that you get to tell the resolution or the rounding the corner of of the of the issue as well. Okay. Did you really? Ramon Soto: We actually hired one of the kids, by the way. yeah. They were you know what was lovely about them all was they really wanted to tell their stories because they wanted to be advocates for the discussion and they Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: became really nice brand ambassadors for this particular message and and a few of them expressed an interest in t getting into the into care delivery and we Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: We struck up a relationship with one in particular and brought her over and she's fabulous. She actually works in the expanded program, helping Brian: Awesome. Ramon Soto: kids that were like her when she was going through college. It's it's a it's a good Brian: What a story. Ramon Soto: I'm telling you, healthcare's one of those places, think about it how it can affect you and all the good that can come out of it. And the mission behind it, the the purpose driven nature of it. Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: these are like the trying the the the things that we're trying to capture as content and push it out. Brian: Yeah. And so important to reach a a younger audience, which often takes their health care for granted. I know I did. And then you start getting Ramon Soto: Yeah. Brian: older and you're like, my gosh, there's so many things to worry about. Ramon Soto: Well think about that. And then can you do an effective thirty second ad to a younger audience? No. Can you do a an effective thirty second social or or a a meaningful social engagement? Perhaps. but this avenue to to have this conversation was was quite poignant. Brian: Yeah. Well, I love your mention of super consumers or super fans, because that's how I think about consumers. And I know you said you took some from entertainment space, or that's kind of how you got the idea of of, hey, we should have a studio. How how do you think about superfans for healthcare business? Like what what what what how do you engage them? Like what do they look like when you when you Ramon Soto: Yeah. Brian: kind of have them? Ramon Soto: You know, I honestly, instead of super fans, I think that is the byproduct of great content. what I try to do, like any good marketer, is how do I build a relationship with an individual? How do I have them know us before they need us so they then have a predisposition to use us? Cause I compete in a hyper competitive market. you know, it's a it's a knife fight every day. probably shouldn't use knife eight analogy in healthcare delivery, but but the you know, I tip my hat to my competitors. New York Presbyterian, a storied institution, deep relationships with two Ivy League healthcare institutions. They were born in the seventeen seventies. They got their hospital charter before the country was was was even born. So a long storied career of firsts, really iconically New York. Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: NYU Langone, I would call them the R R R tribal. You know, we probably see them the most from a competitive standpoint. Born in the eighteen forties, another storied institution. I'm the scrappy little brand that was born thirty-five years ago, Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: rebranded as Northwell Health ten years ago. And how do I show up and compete in that environment? How do I build a relationship with individuals so they have a predisposition to use us? And it's not by following a standard playbook. And it's not by following their playbook, my competitor's playbook. It's Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: you really have to carve out a unique space that's your own. So we think about engagement differently. That's where the studio's content side is. And then we think about a differentiated story. that's all rooted in science. Like we track everything, we try to be customer obsessed, we try to really understand consumers as they're going through a healthcare journey and what it means to them and appeal to their decision-making process. so that plays out in our media strategy, it plays out in our paid media strategy, it plays out in our studio strategy, it it plays out in how we choose to take brand acts and execute them in the market. and engage with individuals. So it's this ecosystem that tries Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: to not create fandom but leverage the phenomenon as part of the marketing equation on how we go to Brian: Yeah. And it feeds into your life cycle marketing, right? You're you're trying to reach the consumer where they are. Ramon Soto: Yeah. Well that's a great point, by the way. Cause you know, many health institutions, they they believe in the transaction of care and and even market these transactional moments. We really try to take a a lifetime value perspective. And we want to take that that long journey with the individual, right? So it's not a one and done phenomenon, it's really how do you build that relationship over? Brian: Yeah, that's great. Well, I always ask my guests one question and in season two the question is what is your superpower? Ramon, do you know what your superpower is? Ramon Soto: Hmm. I do actually. So my superpower is really how I show up to work. And it's I don't show up as just the marketing guy. you know, I I I do think being at the forefront of the mechanics and the art and science of marketing is table stakes right now. You know, my shoop my superpower is to show up as a change agent. So Brian: Amazing. Ramon Soto: I you know, I As I describe myself to my peers and others, I often say, when I'm sitting at the table, I try to be one third marketer, one-third business partner, one-third change agent. And I've learned th through the course of my career that change is actually a wonderful thing. Change creates shocks to the status quo and these fissures that it creates create economic opportunity. So you get to reimagine. How you can show up and how you can execute. And you layer on top of that really an interesting time to be a marketer and new techniques, new science, new technology. And you can really reimagine how you show up. So I'm super inquisitive. I try to be a change agent. I I try to be, if not ahead of a curve, certainly a fast follower to it. and pre-position Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: the organization for the next thing. And that is paid dividends for me throughout my career. and it it I get to sit down differently and have a very strategic conversation with the organization. And then how does the marketing function show up to help achieve the goals of the institution? Brian: Yeah. Well I really love that approach. I mean, I always think of change creates opportunity and then whatever you do with the opportunity, that's up to you, right? It it Ramon Soto: Yeah. Brian: it's just gonna keep changing. So you have to engage it and and and see what your opportunity is within that. Ramon Soto: I think it's more important now than ever because we're we started this conversation with the hyperchange that we're in. So think where technology is and where it's gonna be in five years. It's kinda crazy. like AI is gonna change everything and it will. We just don't know the the how yet and the what yet. think of where we are culturally and consumerism. you know, we're we're also in You know, it's a good story and it's bad story. Consumers are more empowered than ever. yet we seem to be in this moment of society where we just can't get along. Those are real things, and you have to be super aware of them and how do you navigate as a as a health system and delivering health care in that environment. Certain things can be t perilous. you know, North will try to be brave and step forward and we did the first national gun violence campaign because in twenty nineteen guns became the leading cause of death of children. Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Ramon Soto: Think about that. And think about you're you're now entering into Second Amendment territory. I mean, Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: it's like it can be a real slippery slope. So you gotta be really smart about how you do it. and we stayed away from the politics. And the amount of brand love and credit we got for having a very difficult conversation, but building awareness with society really paid outsized dividends for for the organization. So, you know. That's another example of that kind of curiosity, what's coming around the corner, and and being brave and stepping forward really thoughtfully, and but uniquely and dealing with Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: some of these issues that that really can be opportunities. Brian: Yeah, you could certainly see that aspect of being a change agent there. What's what's exciting that's coming up? Like what's n what's new? What are you kind of like looking to to push now? Ramon Soto: Yeah. So on the studio side, we have a bunch of projects in the works. probably the one that I'm most excited about is one called the Lullaby Project. where we have patients who have their children in the NICU. And we work with those patients to and ask them to write a love letter to their child. we then in turn partner with Carnegie Hall and and in particular Carnegie Hall musicians to turn that love letter into a lullaby. And then we'll play it back to the parents. And then we'll invite those parents to a concert and we'll play it all in concert. So it's like really Brian: Gosh. Ramon Soto: I know it just it's, you know, I get the I get misty when I think about the platform. Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: but that's that's coming along nicely, pretty well developed concept, and we're excited Brian: that's so great. Ramon Soto: to bring that to market. I probably shouldn't Brian: That's amazing. Ramon Soto: be talking about these things by pipeline, but but it's but it's all good. that's a that's a pretty special one. and then I we have Brian: That's really special. I mean that I I resonate with that. My my son spent ten days in the NICU and my God, the the care, the care you get there. Ramon Soto: So you know absolutely you know what a s a a special place it is and what a fragile Brian: Yeah. Ramon Soto: time it is. So to surround these parents with love and Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: to give them a way to express their love that is evergreen, it's just it is honestly magic. It's magic. So that's that's you Brian: That's really special. Ramon Soto: know, I've shared that we're doing that with board members and and you see them well up and It's it's it's a pretty interesting it's a pretty interesting, I think super creative approach to creating Brian: Mm-hmm. Ramon Soto: content. Brian: Certely fertile fertile ground for emotional content. Ramon Soto: Yeah, absolutely. Brian: And and like I said, my gosh, my son was in Santa Monica hospital when he was born, but I I can't the care that he got. He's good. He was he was born Ramon Soto: See good, your sound's good, your good is a good place. That's great. Brian: six weeks early, but he now he's six years old. Yeah. Ramon Soto: Amazing. listen, you you got great chapters ahead of you. My kids, my son is thirty-one, my daughter's thirty. That's right, I don't look that old. But you have Brian: No, you don't. You don't sound that old to the listeners. Ramon Soto: great chapters in front of you. They're just rid they've they've turned into really good people, which is that's the greatest gift that I could ever ask for. Brian: Yeah. Well I've really enjoyed this conversation, Ramon. Thank you. Thank you for for coming on. Ramon Soto: Yeah, so have I Brian. Yeah, it's been nice it's been nice perusing marketing with you. Brian: Yeah. If people want to get in touch with you for Northwell or or the studio, what's the best way to get in touch with you? LinkedIn? Yeah. Ramon Soto: Yeah, just hit me up on LinkedIn or you can reach out to me. I'll give you my email address. It's r soto at northwell dot edu. Brian: Awesome. Ramon Soto: yeah, if you have an idea or if you just want to talk about change marketing, what the future looks like, throw me a line. Brian: Awesome. I really appreciate the conversation. Thank you for being a guest. This has Ramon Soto: Yeah, thank you, everybody. All right. Brian: been a brief conversation with Ramon Soto. I'm your host, Brian Aquan, and stay curious out there, everyone.