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Performance Anxiety? Porn, Stress and Your Pelvic Floor (with Rahi Chun) · Evolutionary Men

0:00
Jason Lange: All right, and welcome back, everyone.
0:02
I am very excited today to once again be joined by an amazing guest.
0:08
And today I have Rahi Chun, who is a California State certified somatic sex educator
0:14
and genital de Armouring specialist.
0:16
He has an MA in Spiritual Psychology
0:20
and is trauma informed and has training in tre and Neuroaffective touch.
0:25
And he studied Taoist energy cultivation with Mantak Chia.
0:29
And he has over 30 years of practice, has worked with hundreds of clients, and has
0:34
trained practitioners in over 20 countries.
0:38
And little tidbit, I don't even know if Rahi here knows it.
0:42
There was a time in my life I was leading a lot of authentic relating.
0:45
About a decade ago, Rahi was the very first person I ever circled in a public
0:51
circle, which is a group, group training, kind of connection practice that I still
0:57
remember the moment so much
1:00
sitting in our friend's apartment all those.
1:01
All those years ago.
1:03
Rahi Chun: All those years ago.
1:04
Jason Lange: Yeah.
1:05
Really special connection to me of like, oh, that was.
1:07
That was the first time.
1:08
Something I've done quite a bit since then.
1:10
But super excited to have you here today, man.
1:13
Thank you so much for being here.
1:15
Rahi Chun: Yeah, Jason, it's great.
1:16
It's great to just sit in kind of our own virtual circle here of two men
1:22
and invite audiences in and, yeah, I'm really excited to just, like, dive into
1:27
whatever, you know, topics and conversation wants to unfold between us.
1:30
This is.
1:32
Jason Lange: Yeah.
1:32
And part of, you know, what you and I were just chatting about before we hit record
1:38
here is, you know, I'm in men's work.
1:40
I support men in coaching and growth and change.
1:44
And
1:45
much of the work I do for focuses on kind of relationships, dating, et cetera.
1:52
Because out of all of the things
1:55
that will, in my experience,
1:57
actually get a man
2:00
to reach out for help and admit, hey, something in my life isn't working.
2:06
It often shows up in the realm of intimacy.
2:09
Right.
2:10
In terms of just, I can't get into the kind of relationship I want, or I'm in one
2:15
and there's a lot of friction between us or.
2:18
Or there's physical disconnection.
2:20
And so it's a broad spectrum.
2:22
And what I've liked about
2:25
witnessing your work from afar, and my wife's gotten to do some personal work with
2:30
you before, is the way you kind of bridge all of these things as related.
2:35
Right.
2:35
That physical intimacy is related to emotional intimacy for both men and women,
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which I think is a huge misconception that hurts a lot of us guys, that
2:45
it's only women who need emotional connection.
2:48
Right.
2:48
For to have good physical intimacy, which has not been my experience.
2:53
But so I'd love, yeah, I'd love for you to just share a little bit about your
2:56
journey and kind of what brought you into the work you do and how you've been
3:01
serving these last years and what lights you up.
3:03
Rahi Chun: Sure, sure.
3:04
Thanks for the invitation.
3:07
Yeah, it is really fascinating.
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Like, my wife Ariel and I just finished holding space for a couple's retreat.
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And it was a really wide range.
3:15
You know, there was a couple married 30 years and a couple just together for two
3:19
years.
3:20
And to your point, the, it's all of, it's so interconnected.
3:24
You know, the, the emotional trust and safety, particularly in female bodies,
3:30
really lends itself to the depth of
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erotic and sexual pleasure that's available in their bodies.
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You know, the way, the way where our nervous systems are either hyper vigilant or
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really relaxed.
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But in answer to your question about how I got here,
3:47
you know, honestly, it was just like following my curiosity.
3:51
But I think it started like I've always been fascinated with the body.
3:55
And so all of the trainings and healing modalities I've been drawn to have tended to
4:00
be body based, somatic modalities.
4:05
You know, you mentioned neuroaffective touch, which is all about how the body
4:11
holds childhood and infant trauma through unconscious guarding patterns in the body.
4:16
And then tre is a brilliant way of releasing
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what's held in, you know, trauma that's held in the psoas muscles through
4:25
involuntary trigger response.
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But I've always been drawn to like ecstatic dance.
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You know, I was a performer for years and so I just kind of like followed my
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curiosity.
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And
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you know, sexuality is just one of those topics that
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I think I've taken a particular fascination to because
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like when I came out of my mom's womb, I came out with crooked legs and she massaged
4:52
my legs every night for three years, which had them grow out straight, you know, and
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it's one of those things where I know how,
5:02
how much healing can happen in touch, you know, in
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intentional touch.
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And so that kind of led me down a rabbit hole of like, well, what other kinds of
5:12
touch can heal the body?
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And I just ended up being fascinated with
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what can enliven and open up the pelvis.
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You know, in all, in all genders,
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how much unconscious holding and guarding do we have in the pelvic bowl?
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That may be sexuality related or not, but definitely affects our sexuality, whether
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it's blood flow or,
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you know, sensation.
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And so I, I ended up developing this expertise in a phenomenon called genital de
5:43
armory.
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And so that's a little bit of, of how I ended up here.
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And you know, I, I teach genital de arming internationally and my wife and I
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have a body of work called Divine Union for.
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For lovers, which, you know, we love working with couples.
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And I find that sexuality is almost like this portal into
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a person's soul or their soul's journey.
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So it's endlessly fascinating.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that.
6:13
And maybe you could give just a little high level overview here for guys that
6:18
are maybe new to this around, you know, what exactly is kind of somatic sex
6:23
education?
6:24
And then.
6:25
Yeah, what is that?
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De armoring in particular?
6:28
Rahi Chun: Thanks for those questions.
6:29
Yeah.
6:30
So
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somatic sex education.
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So sex education is essentially what was missing in most of our teenage years.
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Right.
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You know, most sex education in this country is about abstinence and STDs, but
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there's nothing around pleasure, nothing around consent, nothing around intimate
6:49
connection.
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And what the somatic is, is it.
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It really refers to body based sex education.
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So rather than teaching about sex education,
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you know, through.
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Through a book or through learning, we do it through the body.
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So touch based.
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So clients can really feel what feels good, what doesn't feel good,
7:15
understanding how to give voice to their body's consent and boundaries.
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So it's very interactive and.
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And it involves the body, which is the somatic part.
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Jason Lange: And then it's very experiential in that sense.
7:29
Rahi Chun: Yes, yes, that's a great word to describe it, experiential.
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And then the genital de armoring
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it refers to.
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So genital armor refers to the unconscious, often chronic
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guarding that the tissues and fascia
7:48
respond to, to protect itself.
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So it can be in response to an active threat, like
7:55
a violent partner or a perceived threat.
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So it could be someone who's got an anger issue.
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And you know, as a child, you know, I experienced some violation.
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And so even at the hint of aggression, my pelvic bowl will contract.
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And this can create a desensitization
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within the genitals.
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So de armoring is simply releasing that from the body, the physical tissues
8:21
of the genitalia as well as the psychological body.
8:26
Jason Lange: Yeah.
8:27
And those two are deeply linked.
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Rahi Chun: Yes.
8:30
Jason Lange: As far as my understanding, this is part of some of the work
8:35
my wife did, I believe, with you.
8:37
Rahi Chun: Yeah.
8:39
Jason Lange: In the woman, I think it's the cervix.
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Rahi Chun: Yes.
8:43
Jason Lange: Tends to be a place where a lot of that armoring gets concentrated.
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Specifically,
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is there an equivalent in men?
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Like.
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I don't actually know.
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Rahi Chun: I'm realizing yeah, it's actually the prostate.
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Yeah.
8:58
Yeah.
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So for men, we hold a lot of our.
9:01
You know, it's really interesting because
9:04
the tissue of the prostate and the tissue of the.
9:09
The cervix and uterus, you know, all represent kind of a birthing canal, you know,
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and so for men, a lot of our unrealized dreams, unbirthed
9:20
visions, can live in that prostate area and start getting
9:26
inflamed, or there's unmetabolized emotion a lot of times, sadness and grief for,
9:32
you know, what we have yet to birth in our lives that we've, you know, been wanting
9:36
to give birth to.
9:39
Jason Lange: That's fascinating.
9:40
Rahi Chun: Isn't that fascinating?
9:41
Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:42
It's just in, you know, as I'm approaching middle age and prostate awareness is, you
9:47
know, now part of my thing, and this kind of belief, at least, I seem to have
9:53
absorbed from the culture that's like, live long enough as a man and you're probably
9:57
going to get prostate cancer.
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Like, it's just a matter of kind of when.
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But, you know, obviously it's not always a direct correlation, but
10:07
realizing there's so much tied up in that area then makes a lot of sense to me from
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what you're speaking about.
10:14
Rahi Chun: Yeah.
10:14
And then where the prostate is positioned anatomically, like in the center of the
10:19
pelvic bowl, and I guess more specifically, right.
10:23
Right above,
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like, our pelvic floor muscles, if we have a lot of tension in our pelvic floor,
10:30
it's going to press up
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against the prostate and not give room for proper circulation
10:38
of blood, of energy.
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There could be coagulated semen, things of that sort, which can contribute to its
10:46
going down an unhealthy road.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, well, and just while we're on this topic, I'm curious,
10:53
what would be some of the signs or how would a man know
10:57
that maybe something might need some attention down there for himself?
11:02
Rahi Chun: It's such a great question, Jason.
11:04
You know, the most obvious thing is, like, a difficulty emptying your bladder.
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Right.
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So, you know, like, you know, there may be a sense that, oh, there's.
11:15
I know there's still urine in my bladder, but why isn't it coming out?
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Difficulty peeing or, like, not being able to empty it?
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Because
11:23
essentially it's.
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It's right up against the bladder, and when those pelvic floor muscles are pressing
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against the prostate, it can constrict that urine flow.
11:35
Jason Lange: Wow.
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Yeah.
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So big,
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big one to look out for, guys.
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Rahi Chun: And exactly.
11:40
Jason Lange: Does.
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Would this show up or how might, you know, tension down there or armoring down
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there.
11:48
Can it impact sexual function in terms of how a man performs?
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Rahi Chun: Yeah, I mean, especially around erections.
11:57
So, like, essentially, if you think about
12:02
any kind of tension, you know, in your arm or your leg or your pelvis, it's going to
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restrict blood flow, you know, and.
12:09
And it's gonna.
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It's gonna create numbness or desensitization.
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So, you know, like, if your erections are not as healthy, if your morning wood isn't
12:20
as vital, you know, it could be.
12:23
There's nothing.
12:24
It could be.
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There's nothing wrong, you know, with your penis at all.
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It's just a matter of releasing that tension in the pelvic floor,
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you know, which will support your prostate health as well as strengthen your
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erections.
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Jason Lange: Yeah.
12:41
Okay.
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And
12:44
starting to connect some dots here for myself around, you know, one of the other
12:49
things we were talking about is I work with a huge range of men, and I've gotten to
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talk to some amazing practitioners like you, and a number have commented that one of
12:58
the biggest changes they've seen over the last decade is a lot younger men showing
13:04
up with ED or PE or DE
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and not really being sure why.
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And, you know, I think we're
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certainly a projection on my part, but culture is at a very different place right
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now than it's been before.
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And I think a lot of the structures that used to just keep us, I don't know,
13:24
connected and whole as humans
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have really been stress tested.
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And, you know, we'll get into loneliness and men and all of these things that I
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imagine are part of what starts to accumulate there in terms of, my God, these
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tensions we feel.
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Rahi Chun: Jason, you're hitting it right on the nose.
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It's like, you know, the pelvic floor,
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you know, it's the root chakra, so
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houses issues related to our safety and our security and our sense of
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belonging.
13:55
Right.
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And so these are all the issues you're talking about.
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I mean, there's a disintegration of our societal community structures, you know,
14:05
and so with that, you know, I think a lot of, you know, people of all genders are
14:11
really seeking connection.
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You know, that was kind of a byproduct of our society certainly when I was growing
14:17
up, you know, and I think more so, you know, when my parents were growing up, you
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know, neighbors knew each other's name by name.
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You know, people would share bread with each other, you know, that kind of thing.
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Now we're so isolated, and there's more of a sense of, like, how will I survive if
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something happens?
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You know,
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human to human connection.
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That's like we're a social species.
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That's like our breath and our blood, you know, is human connection so absent that,
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the pelvic floor isn't going to feel as safe or secure and so it's going to tense
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up.
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So I'm.
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My guess is if we were able to see kind of like, you know, the condition of pelvic
14:59
floors across generations, I guarantee you it's much tighter, there's a lot more
15:04
armor, and it's resulting in less blood flow.
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You know, the other thing you mentioned, premature ejaculation.
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When there's so much tightness and there's a build of erotic energy in the pelvis,
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it's going to shoot out quicker than if there's a relaxed pelvic floor and the
15:22
energy can actually move around.
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So it's both premature ejaculation and erection issues that a tight, tense pelvic
15:31
floor will contribute to.
15:34
Jason Lange: Okay.
15:34
Yeah.
15:35
This is
15:37
really key, I think, in putting language to.
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I think, the inner experience I've had of men that don't necessarily correlate the
15:47
stress I'm experiencing in life
15:50
and how my body is going to adapt to that.
15:54
Right.
15:55
Particularly in.
15:56
In like the pelvic floor region here.
15:58
And, you know, I think this gets into
16:01
one of the most sensitive things I work, you know, as I work with men around
16:04
sexuality about is how much self worth
16:08
gets tied in as men.
16:10
Right.
16:10
To perform.
16:11
And we'll kind of get into porn culture and all that, but that, you know, just to
16:16
maybe speak to a little bit here, like,
16:19
for a lot of men who might have these issues, know that it's not necessarily because
16:23
there's something defective around you.
16:25
We're also living in a more uncertain environment.
16:30
And it's not that there weren't times of great challenge and stress in the past, but
16:34
I think you're right.
16:35
There was more social cohesion to help
16:39
deal with that stress.
16:41
So, you know, is the world better or worse than 200 years ago?
16:44
I don't know
16:46
factually, but what I do know is, yeah, a lot of these close tie connection
16:52
systems have evaporated, particularly here in Western culture.
16:56
And I think particularly for men, which is part of.
16:59
Part of why I have a job and all the things I do, which we'll get into.
17:03
Rahi Chun: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:04
But you're right, you know, like, if you think about us,
17:08
you know, the male lineage, you know, we used to, you know, as cavemen, we sat
17:13
around fires and told stories, you know, and a lot of you Know.
17:18
Yeah, yeah.
17:18
I was just talking to someone yesterday and he's like, you know, I just like going
17:22
fishing with my guys.
17:23
We don't have to say anything,
17:26
you know, but they were, there were these traditions that men did together, whether
17:30
it was chopping wood or hunting or, you know, I mean, you know, like
17:36
when I was growing up, like I, you know, like late night poker games was a thing,
17:40
you know, and people would just stay up till three drinking beers and shooting the.
17:44
But there is something about men getting together with men that enlivens us
17:50
in a way.
17:51
And I, I, I fear that that tradition is like slipping away somehow.
17:57
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think it has.
17:58
And the statistics and research
18:01
point pretty clearly to the damages that that's causing.
18:05
And male loneliness is going up and
18:10
there's a little bit of back and forth online right now of, well, is it just men or
18:14
is it men and women?
18:15
And I think it is both.
18:16
I think the challenge with men is men are even less likely to self report
18:21
that I'm lonely because of what that means.
18:24
Rahi Chun: Exactly.
18:24
Jason Lange: So I think some of that data has to be kind of taken with a grain of salt.
18:28
But that, yeah, you know, at least here in the west, right.
18:31
Suicide rates are three and a half to four times higher for men.
18:35
Men die of heart disease earlier, which, there's plenty of research you can connect
18:40
to loneliness and being part of a group.
18:42
And some, you know, beautiful work.
18:44
I can't remember the author's name but
18:46
had the book around bowling.
18:48
I can't remember.
18:49
It's really great, like a decade ago of just like.
18:51
Yeah, yeah, be being part of a bowling group where you see the same people once a
18:57
week
18:58
increases your lifespan.
18:59
Yeah, right.
19:00
Just like simple structures like that that are fading away for a lot of
19:05
Rahi Chun: men in, well, you know, I saw this statistic, I think it was a Scott Galloway
19:10
statistic that Amongst men ages 18 to 23,
19:14
you know, 22% of them could not name
19:19
like a close person that knows them.
19:21
They don't feel seen, they don't feel.
19:24
And you know that, you know, like as a human species there, there's a primal need
19:30
to know that you're a value and you, your existence is acknowledged.
19:34
And so I really do,
19:37
you know, it's a big concern, it's.
19:39
And you know, you, you see this amongst the, you know, like I'm curious with,
19:44
amongst the men because I know you work with a wide range of different age groups,
19:47
groups like, do you notice
19:51
a difference amongst the younger men that you work with around loneliness and
19:55
isolation.
19:56
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think, you know, even older men can often
20:01
locate a previous time in their life where they.
20:05
They knew what the experience was so they can remember.
20:08
I know what I'm missing.
20:09
Like, oh, yeah.
20:10
Like, I used to have my guys and my frat or in my sports team.
20:14
And it's not that
20:16
some young people have that, but more and more,
20:20
the nature of connecting online and work from home, it's just all very different.
20:25
And it's just striking me.
20:27
Something we'll get into here is
20:30
certainly my generation.
20:32
I was like, high school, right.
20:34
When broadband Internet hit, which was basically the tidal wave of instant access to
20:40
porn that's only gotten
20:42
now in your pocket any time of day, anywhere you are.
20:45
And in a way, I think what
20:49
kind of online porn
20:52
did to intimacy and sexuality.
20:56
There's a way, I think, that kind of social media culture
21:00
does to relationships.
21:01
Well, it feels like we're friends,
21:04
but what we're actually cultivating is an external experience.
21:08
Rahi Chun: Yes.
21:08
Jason Lange: And we're not having to reveal the tough inner experience and actually be in
21:13
relationship.
21:14
You know, there was some research around.
21:16
I can't remember what they called it, you know, weak tie, connections or something
21:21
Ezra Klein wrote about, which was like, yeah.
21:23
Back in the day, you'd live in a neighborhood, Right.
21:24
And there'd be the kind of guy down the street who's, you know, a little different,
21:29
collects some weird stuff.
21:30
His house has a weird energy, but he's in your neighborhood and you see him every
21:34
day.
21:35
So you're like, in relationship with him.
21:37
Rahi Chun: Exactly.
21:38
Jason Lange: And then we sprang into online, where in some ways, it's a gift.
21:43
You know, everything becomes interest and value aligned.
21:46
So I can.
21:47
All of my online relationships can be with people who think and breathe the exact
21:52
same way I do.
21:53
So we lose the
21:56
vulnerability of having to stay in connection when we don't.
22:00
Totally aligned with someone.
22:02
Rahi Chun: Exactly.
22:03
Yeah.
22:03
Jason Lange: In.
22:04
In.
22:04
And then we optimize for, well, here's what my life looks like.
22:08
And we assume everyone looks like they do on Instagram.
22:11
When it's like, no, everybody's in pain, but we're just not putting that online.
22:14
Right.
22:15
Like, people are struggling, so it just.
22:17
Yeah.
22:18
I think all this swirls together.
22:19
And then.
22:21
Yeah.
22:21
Where I'm curious to kind of take this then, is one of the reasons I'm so passionate
22:25
about men's groups and.
22:27
Right.
22:27
I.
22:28
You and I were talking
22:30
about some of your experiences, and they align with mine where I tell guys, like,
22:33
you want to have a better intimate relationship, get into better relationships with
22:38
men, and they're like, what?
22:38
Why is that going to be better sex?
22:40
Why is that going to be better relationship?
22:42
And one of the biggest ones I've seen is it takes so much pressure off
22:48
our intimate relationship, particularly as men, because so many men,
22:53
because we don't have a lot of male friendships, because homophobia is still
22:57
unfortunately real in our culture.
22:59
So it's like, well, I can't get too close to Rahi.
23:02
Certainly I could never touch him.
23:04
Right.
23:04
Like that.
23:05
That.
23:05
That shit's still out there.
23:08
And what that leaves men with is, well, the only place I can get touch or connection
23:14
is sex.
23:15
Right.
23:16
And it puts a lot of burden in pressure on that.
23:21
Rahi Chun: Yeah, it's a lot of pressure on a partner, on a girlfriend, on a wife.
23:26
And it's kind of like,
23:29
I mean, you know, this, this.
23:31
You know, this started to happen in my.
23:33
In my marriage early on, too.
23:35
It's like I started kind of being like, my mopey boy would come out and,
23:41
you know, Ariel would be like, hey, I'm not your mom.
23:44
You know what I mean?
23:45
Jason Lange: Yeah.
23:45
Rahi Chun: It's not very sexy.
23:47
You know, it's not sexy in the bedroom.
23:49
And so it's very, very true.
23:51
And I forget what this statistic is, but it's some high.
23:54
Like,
23:55
I forget what the statistic is, but a very high percentage of men have nowhere else
24:00
to process their emotions except for their part.
24:03
Jason Lange: Yes.
24:04
Rahi Chun: And it is part of the.
24:08
It contributes to the unsexiness or the strain of
24:14
intimacy in relationships to have all of that burden on your partner, you
24:20
know, who.
24:21
Who, you know, loves you but, you know, doesn't want to be your mom, essentially.
24:25
Right.
24:27
I have found my Men's Group
24:30
1.
24:30
It's so great to see other men having similar struggles in their relationship.
24:35
It's so great to see men who have more experience than me, you know, point out,
24:41
like, you know, like, give me, you know, constructive criticism or suggestions.
24:47
And it's also really valuable to be held accountable,
24:53
to not collapse or not to, you know, to stand my ground when that's necessary
24:59
and to show up in the ways that, you know, I want to show up.
25:03
It's.
25:04
It's really invaluable.
25:05
I totally agree.
25:08
Jason Lange: Yeah.
25:08
And it strikes me just, even with what you were just talking about, if
25:12
one of the kind of teachings I've been going on rants on lately is, you know, part
25:17
of my trainings in polarity and masculine feminine dynamics.
25:20
And, you know, it's super fun.
25:21
It's super sexy.
25:22
It goes well on Instagram.
25:24
Like, people get really into it,
25:27
and then the longer I've been in relationship, I'm like, oh, my God, that's actually
25:30
kind of easy.
25:31
You can kind of learn to breathe like the mountain and move your body in a weekend,
25:36
like in a.
25:37
In an online workshop, really.
25:39
It's like, not super complicated.
25:40
But what gets in the way
25:43
is all the bodily tensions, traumas, habits, attachment, wounding from
25:49
childhood.
25:50
What I'm just connecting the dots on is
25:53
even on male performance, right?
25:57
The so much pressure on guys to be able to have erections, have them on demand as
26:03
long as they want.
26:04
And it makes sense to me now where I'm like, well, if the only place I can
26:08
potentially get some emotional connection, touch, connection is in sex,
26:14
I really want it to go well,
26:16
right?
26:16
Because if I'm not getting in there, I'm not getting anywhere else.
26:19
And that's another one of those tensions I imagine would be very easy to kind of
26:23
pack down inside,
26:26
build up in the body, and then, you know, it's actually getting in the way of the
26:31
very thing
26:32
we most want in a men's group.
26:35
Is certainly
26:36
my prescription for one of the easiest ways to have somewhere else
26:41
to get to bring our burden.
26:42
Intention and yeah, my mopey boy, my little boy, my whiny boy, the parts of me I
26:47
want to honor, but that, yeah, my wife doesn't always want to be the one nagging me
26:52
about or holding space for.
26:53
Because it's different, right?
26:55
It's not that she doesn't.
26:57
She's not up to doing that sometimes, but it's very different
27:00
when
27:03
I've been in and out of groups before and, you know, it's very different when she
27:06
feels me being held by men.
27:09
Yes.
27:09
Then it's like, oh, well, now I can just kind of pour love into him, but I don't
27:15
have to be the one tracking him and his wellness.
27:17
Rahi Chun: Exactly.
27:18
Oh, my God.
27:19
It makes such a huge difference.
27:22
And I feel like what you just touched on, I feel like is the.
27:27
Is the intersection of a lot of these themes, which is that
27:31
when men
27:33
have been socialized, when their nervous systems have been wired by porn around
27:38
their sexuality, and then sex is the only time they feel connected.
27:43
And yet their bodies are trained to go fast and hard.
27:47
And for result,
27:48
there isn't.
27:49
They don't end up connecting in to the.
27:52
The connection doesn't happen in the relationship.
27:56
You know, it's like oxytocin, which is the bonding chemical, needs
28:01
a parasympathetic, relaxed nervous system to really bond.
28:06
And yet porn trains the nervous system to go fast towards a Result
28:12
performance led.
28:13
And it does.
28:14
It cannot coexist with oxytocin, which is that loving bonding chemical.
28:18
And that's.
28:19
That's what's accentuating this kind of tragic epidemic.
28:24
You know, to your point, if.
28:26
If our partners in a heterosexual relationship, if our women are the only place so
28:31
many men can go to, and yet their bodies have been trained in a way that doesn't
28:36
foster that deep connection,
28:38
it's going to lead to a lot of dissatisfaction.
28:42
Jason Lange: Yeah.
28:43
That.
28:44
That
28:45
tracks with so much of.
28:48
Right.
28:48
Porn.
28:48
And, you know, we can kind of talk more about that.
28:50
Right.
28:51
That.
28:52
That sympathetic kind of quick activation then often coupled with.
28:57
And I got to do it quick.
28:58
I got to do it in a way no one sees.
29:00
Rahi Chun: Yes.
29:01
Right.
29:01
Jason Lange: Because I don't know, you know, mom might walk in or whatever.
29:03
So it's kind of clouded a bit in shame.
29:08
You know, what we're teaching our nervous systems every time we engage like that is
29:13
this.
29:13
Is.
29:13
This is what it should feel like.
29:15
And then we get in with a partner and it's a very different experience.
29:18
It's a very different pace.
29:20
And I think creates some of that pressure.
29:22
In addition to, you know, for so many men, myself included, you know,
29:28
early on, that is sex education.
29:32
Right.
29:32
It's like maybe a crappy health class in high school where there's some pictures,
29:38
but then it's through porn and access to it that most men are getting,
29:44
you know, what they think is an understanding of what sex is, you know, which
29:49
I think it gets.
29:50
We get a lot of.
29:52
I think there's maybe a little more awareness to how damaging it is in terms of
29:56
unrealistic expectations of women and their bodies and how they work and what
30:00
they're open to.
30:02
But I think it's also quite damaging.
30:03
I found for a lot of men because they have this expectation that I should be able to
30:08
get hard on demand
30:11
whenever I want and go as long as I want with any kind of partner.
30:16
And they don't see all of the
30:19
fabrication.
30:21
Rahi Chun: Exactly, exactly.
30:22
The real behind the scenes reality of
30:26
these guys popping meds to get erect and taking three days to shoot one scene and
30:31
all of that.
30:33
Jason Lange: Yeah.
30:34
And then again, it leads to that pressure, which totally.
30:37
Oh, my God.
30:38
Rahi Chun: Yeah, I want to share.
30:39
Jason Lange: I can't do this.
30:40
I'm not a man.
30:41
Rahi Chun: Totally, totally
30:43
on that point.
30:44
Jason,
30:45
the research I've done
30:48
shows that not only is the damaging effect, you know, what.
30:51
What you shared, but it's really in.
30:55
So statistics show that
30:59
it's ages 9 to 13 that most young people are exposed to porn.
31:03
So 9 to 13.
31:04
Now what's really startling is that the average age a young boy gets exposed to
31:10
porn is usually 3.2 years before their first intimate real life
31:15
encounter.
31:17
Before holding hands or exchanging love notes.
31:21
This is three plus years that their nervous system, system is learning to wire
31:27
for speed, performance,
31:30
you know, results.
31:32
And
31:34
what's just as damaging, perhaps more damaging, is this the identity
31:39
that a young boy takes on.
31:42
Because, you know, I don't,
31:44
I think all young boys emulate, you know, their superheroes or being a man, their
31:49
father or their big brother.
31:51
They want to be a man and they're learning,
31:53
they're, they're learning through porn.
31:55
Oh, this is what it means to be a sexual, you know, sexually virile or sexually
32:00
competent.
32:02
And the younger kids are exposed, the younger boys are exposed to porn, the more
32:06
they interpret it as an experience of dominance.
32:10
Dominance.
32:11
Jason Lange: Yes.
32:12
Rahi Chun: Right.
32:12
Because like a 9, I mean if you're 13 or 15, there's some emotional maturity.
32:17
If you're 9, there's, there isn't the emotional maturity to know what they're doing.
32:20
It just looks like dominance.
32:24
Yeah.
32:24
And
32:25
yeah, this is, this is what we're having to deal with is like, okay, not only are
32:30
nervous systems wired for this, but there's a sense of identity of like.
32:35
And you know, I don't know about you, but I remember this in like junior high school
32:39
locker room, you know, like all the, the jocks and the, you know, it was all in
32:45
sports analogies.
32:46
Are you going to score this weekend?
32:47
I got the third base and blah, blah, blah, blah.
32:50
And it was like, whoa, you know, you, I want to be cool like these guys.
32:54
And that's the, you know, that's what we're, we're facing as a society.
32:59
Yeah.
32:59
Jason Lange: I had never.
33:01
So interesting to hear you say that because I'd never really put the dots together.
33:04
You know, there's a lot of the work I'm involved in is right alongside the.
33:09
Yeah, the boy crisis and the rites of passage crisis and the lack of
33:14
mentorship and modeling.
33:15
But I honestly hadn't seen that glaring,
33:18
obvious thing you just pointed to where porn is, where a lot of men are.
33:23
Young boys are getting an expectation of not just sexually, but like what a man is.
33:29
He comes in and he does this and he's able to have sex with a woman like this.
33:33
And there's a, there's actually a lot more to it than I was realizing in terms of
33:38
that dominant positioning that gets escalated there in the lack of,
33:44
you know, then when you Tie that, I guess I would say to
33:49
both in porn itself, because it is an actual functional shoot that is done
33:54
in a very specific way.
33:56
And then in, you know, as someone who had been addicted to porn previously, you
34:01
know, my relating to porn though, what it does not do is it does not create
34:06
attunement.
34:07
I'm not having to attune
34:09
to another body, right?
34:10
It's just me.
34:12
It's just me.
34:14
And that's an object over there that I get to use for my pleasure.
34:19
And then, you know, it's kind of the porn shoot itself is that.
34:24
And that lack of attunement and actually having to respond to a human body
34:30
that moves and breathes and closes and opens and withdraws and feels.
34:36
It's like we're training an army of young boys and men to
34:40
be unattuned sexual creatures and then wonder
34:45
why we're having all these issues downstream of that in our culture right now.
34:49
Rahi Chun: Dude, you just.
34:50
Now, I mean, that is it, you know, we're training an army of boys to be unattuned
34:56
sexually.
34:57
That's exactly what's going on, right?
34:59
And then on top of that, like, you know, the nature of porn is that you're wanting
35:04
higher, intense, you know, squirts of dopamine.
35:08
And so it's, it's creating higher intensity
35:13
fantasy and like a fake actor's female actors responsiveness that
35:19
can't be simulated in real life or doesn't get simulated.
35:23
And so I'm, I'm kind of, I'm really sad for a lot of men or boys who
35:29
are disappointed with the real thing because they've been trained, you know, by
35:34
these screams, you know.
35:36
Jason Lange: Yeah.
35:37
Oh yeah, totally.
35:38
I can feel the, the loss of that.
35:40
And I think that's showing up in what's happening with relationships.
35:44
We were talking about fewer, fewer men are even trying to have sex and approaching.
35:48
And I think it's, you know, now I can see
35:52
in a way too, it's like what an interesting
35:56
bind it puts a young man in.
35:59
Where
36:00
I've been raised by porn to some extent, you know, maybe from nine years old.
36:05
And so here's the experience and transmission of this kind of dominant sexuality
36:11
that has been the main thing pointed to me and that frankly, I've probably
36:17
most of my pleasure has been driven off, right.
36:20
Interacting with this kind of porn.
36:22
And then I'm in a culture where,
36:26
you know, even just this year we had the rape academy where we've had metoo rape
36:30
Academy.
36:31
We're just seeing the.
36:32
Okay.
36:33
And this is
36:35
the evil of what this kind of pathologized sexuality can do.
36:40
And so
36:42
just feeling what that would be like in my nervous system.
36:44
Oh, my God.
36:45
This is how I feel pleasure.
36:47
And they're saying that's toxic and wrong.
36:50
So I just.
36:50
I'm not gonna touch it.
36:52
I'm not going to actually touch a woman or approach her because I'm toxic.
36:56
Rahi Chun: Right.
36:57
Jason Lange: It just.
36:57
I had never really thought of it from that kind of identity place that you talked
37:01
about before.
37:02
Rahi Chun: Yeah, yeah.
37:03
Jason Lange: What a challenging place that puts someone.
37:06
Rahi Chun: Oh, my God,
37:07
Jason.
37:08
It just.
37:09
It leaves a young man so confused
37:13
about what he is, you know, I mean, it's exactly what you're saying here.
37:19
You have a young man who's.
37:20
Whose nervous system and identity has been training him for this, and then all of a
37:26
sudden they realize,
37:28
oh, this is harmful.
37:29
Well, what do you do with a nervous system that's been trained for this and an
37:34
identity that's been trained for this?
37:36
And, you know, it sounds like what you're seeing is young men who are just
37:42
pushing all of that down or shutting their energy down because they don't know,
37:47
like, what's right.
37:48
So.
37:49
So, you know, they don't know.
37:50
I mean, we had a.
37:51
We had a guy
37:53
recently
37:54
where he is being.
37:56
So he's afraid of
38:00
essentially hurting his wife, you know.
38:02
Yeah.
38:03
By being too dominant or too, you know, aggressive.
38:06
But his wife wants to feel his confidence and his presence and it's this bind,
38:12
you know, like he needs to get over
38:15
the past conditioning and come into his authentic masculine, you know.
38:21
And once again, this is the real value of getting together with other men,
38:27
you know, other role models, other positive, you know, like, supportive energy so
38:32
that you see the example and you feed off of that, you know, and can replace the
38:37
toxicity that, you know, is.
38:41
Is infiltrating our young people.
38:44
Jason Lange: Yeah.
38:44
And, you know, obviously the population I work with of men is kind of self selecting
38:49
in a sense, because of the work I put out there and what I talk about.
38:53
But I will say it's way more common in the men that show up to me.
38:57
I tend to work a lot more with.
38:59
And I consider myself this kind of more the nice guy, the.
39:03
Oh, my God, I do not want to cause any sexual harm.
39:07
I do not want to objectify.
39:08
I do not want.
39:10
Want to just be, you know, using a woman for sex.
39:13
And so that part of them, you know, that lower chakra, all of that energy down there
39:18
is pretty much offline and it's held in shame.
39:21
Rahi Chun: Right.
39:21
Jason Lange: Of like, well, I can't bring that out.
39:23
And then they wonder why they have a hard time having connected sex or their
39:28
partners are actually asking them like, no, I actually want to feel more of your,
39:32
your, your, your, your healthy desire in animal.
39:37
And they haven't been able to disentangle the two yet.
39:39
That oh, you know, the energy itself is sacred.
39:43
It's beautiful.
39:44
Rahi Chun: Right.
39:44
Jason Lange: Literally what creates life.
39:45
Right.
39:46
What we do with it.
39:47
And you know, certainly how I work with men, it's just.
39:51
Is the heart online?
39:52
Like that's it.
39:53
Rahi Chun: It's the heart online.
39:54
Jason Lange: Is your heart online?
39:56
Rahi Chun: Right.
39:56
Jason Lange: Which means you're connecting to your partner as a human being, not just a sexual
40:01
object.
40:02
Rahi Chun: Yes.
40:03
Jason Lange: So much is possible then.
40:04
But a lot of men don't have that modeling because yeah, they're raised by porn which
40:08
shows heart offline connection.
40:10
Rahi Chun: Right.
40:10
Jason Lange: That's all it is.
40:11
It's just right
40:13
body parts, you do this thing, you get to this objective, etc.
40:16
But that learning to trust that energy
40:20
I imagine is part of what you get to work with couples and men on experientially.
40:26
Rahi Chun: Yes.
40:26
Yes, definitely.
40:28
Yeah.
40:28
Before I get to that, I want to just allude to what you shared before, which is, you
40:33
know, now that young people are on screens and not interacting person to person,
40:40
you know, they're not.
40:41
People need to apply for jobs and get turned down and go through that.
40:46
They need to ask a stranger on a date and get the no thank you and deal with that to
40:51
recognize that.
40:52
Okay, you know, you know, you can be bummed for a little while but you move on.
40:57
But you're going to be okay.
40:59
You're gonna be okay.
41:00
That's perfectly fine.
41:01
It's perfectly normal.
41:02
There's nothing wrong with you.
41:03
But you know, the, the going back to what you were saying when, when they don't have
41:09
those experiences and they venture out, I think there's a lot more anxiety, you
41:14
know, and a lot more at stake in their minds, you know, and a lot more
41:20
devastation when, you know, you appear really cool on social media and in person you
41:26
get a rejection and it's like, what's going on?
41:30
Jason Lange: Yeah, that's well put.
41:32
Rahi Chun: Yeah.
41:32
Jason Lange: And
41:34
kind of pivoting a little bit here.
41:36
But I'm just curious, I'm going to ask you a very open ended question here.
41:40
You know, can draw on everything we talked about, but like in the work you've done
41:43
now, like what do you think, what do most men get wrong about sex?
41:48
Like what preconceptions do they have or what are they bringing to the table that
41:52
they're just, it's kind of
41:55
going to create challenge for them from the get go.
41:57
Just because of all of this stuff we carry in our sexuality as men.
42:02
Rahi Chun: Yep.
42:04
I would say two things.
42:06
And they're connected.
42:08
Love the question.
42:09
So
42:11
most men, what they get wrong, especially when they're younger and they're venturing
42:15
out into the sexuality world.
42:17
But honestly, even couples that have been married 30 years, I mean, this is what we
42:22
see the most.
42:23
Right.
42:24
What we see the most is,
42:28
you know, men being trained to go fast, goal oriented results.
42:34
They're looking for the formula of getting it right and pleasing their woman.
42:39
Right.
42:39
Yeah.
42:40
And right.
42:41
So that, I mean, it's so male.
42:43
It's such a male engineer's brain.
42:45
Right.
42:46
And
42:47
the woman
42:49
is like, no, where are you?
42:51
Come connect with me.
42:53
You know, so the statistics.
42:55
There's a study that was done in America where the average Woman requires
43:01
between 20 and 45 minutes of foreplay, 20 to 45 minutes for their full erogenous
43:07
capacity to come online.
43:10
And the average lovemaking session in America is somewhere between like three and
43:14
seven minutes.
43:16
Right.
43:16
So they've done these studies in hotels where the porn channels click off after like
43:22
five to seven minutes.
43:24
Right.
43:25
So that's so, you know, to your point, we were trained, you know, not to get caught
43:30
masturbating by our moms.
43:31
You know, I had my Penthouse magazine in my bathroom.
43:34
I'd lock, you know, that kind of a thing.
43:36
And, and so we're, we're trained to go fast.
43:39
And most men, when we first get into the dating world, but once again, we've had
43:44
couples married 30 years who still do this.
43:47
They assume that the female body,
43:51
the arousal system of the female body is just like theirs.
43:54
And they're like, whoa, she's not, you know, she's not getting wet fast enough.
43:59
Or like, you know, she's taking too long.
44:01
And then it gets.
44:02
Because we do live in a patriarchal society, women think there's something wrong
44:06
with them.
44:08
You know, like they think a comment I hear so often is, I think my is broken.
44:14
Why?
44:15
Because they're not getting lubricated.
44:18
Because.
44:18
And why aren't they getting lubricated?
44:20
There's all this pressure to like,
44:23
you know, come on, get ready, you know, and you know, like, why isn't your body
44:28
ready?
44:29
And so I would say
44:31
most men assume that women's arousal and pleasure
44:38
journey or mechanism is similar to theirs when it's a completely different thing.
44:43
And
44:46
you know, the tragedy is
44:49
most couples, they're deeply wanting to connect.
44:52
They've just been given like totally different nervous system,
44:57
like gears, you know, so they're not, they're not connected.
45:03
Jason Lange: Yeah.
45:04
I often,
45:06
as I work with guys kind of
45:09
talk about.
45:09
Yeah.
45:09
What kind of feels like a tragedy sometimes because it's just this.
45:13
Yeah.
45:13
That slightly different like gear that for a lot of men, we're wanting to use sex
45:19
to feel more connected.
45:21
Rahi Chun: Yes.
45:21
Jason Lange: And often for the female body, connection is what allows her body to open to sexual.
45:27
Rahi Chun: Absolutely.
45:28
Jason Lange: It's like both partners want the same thing, but they're coming in from two
45:32
different directions.
45:32
And this is where I think there is a tremendous
45:36
amount of leadership we can bring as men, which is to understand
45:42
that different sequencing and system.
45:44
And even as men, I think, like I said, part of what I've been shocked about is I've
45:49
worked with men to help them understand that, you know, sometimes edp,
45:55
all of that.
45:56
Obviously there can be physiological related things there, but oftentimes if you
46:02
focus on the connection,
46:04
literally just the connection, it actually matters less than many men think.
46:10
Is my dick hard or not?
46:12
There's lots of ways for eros and love and pleasure to flow, but
46:18
because of all that context we talked about, there's so much pressure for men.
46:22
And now I'm getting.
46:23
It's like if I am
46:26
anxious about my capacity to hold an erection in any way,
46:33
I'm going to want to get in there as quick as possible.
46:37
Right.
46:37
So I don't have to be confronted with what happens if my body doesn't respond.
46:42
And then.
46:43
Yeah, there's pressure for that speed in a sense that I've never really kind of
46:47
connected in that way before.
46:49
That
46:50
just makes a lot of sense to me that.
46:52
Yeah.
46:52
How important it can be for men.
46:54
And then, I mean, the other thing I love that you said is because, man, I used to be
46:57
the dude, you know, like, oh my God, I get to get the book or the thing.
47:00
Like, what's the special technique?
47:02
If I just master like A to B to Z, like it's going to all work and it's just not how
47:07
it works.
47:09
It's not paint by numbers, it's.
47:11
It's a.
47:12
It's an exploration in any given moment.
47:14
And different day to day.
47:16
Right, right.
47:16
Different hour.
47:18
Rahi Chun: Yeah, yeah.
47:19
And that's like, you know, I mean, if you can learn to
47:23
kind of flow with the dance, then it becomes this fun dance of attuning to what how
47:28
the energy wants to move, you know, rather than needing it to like be like
47:35
how to put together a car.
47:37
Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:39
Rahi Chun: But yeah, You.
47:40
You really.
47:41
I mean, that's it, man.
47:42
It's like both people are wanting deep connection, but the way of getting there,
47:47
we're wired differently to get there in different ways.
47:50
And, you know, again, this.
47:52
This really threads back to every sub, every topic we've talked on, you know, like
47:57
how porn wires the nervous system, how our goal orientation, how, you know, and
48:02
plus, we live in a society that rewards men for results.
48:05
I mean, we are just wired for that, you know, and.
48:09
And it.
48:10
It really does a disservice to us and to our partnerships and.
48:14
And to pleasure when it gets to the bedroom.
48:17
Jason Lange: Yeah.
48:17
And,
48:18
you know, we could probably do a whole podcast on this, but I would love to just get
48:22
your take, because in some ways, I think it's related to so much of what we've
48:25
talked about.
48:26
But in terms of what you've seen, you know, in the culture and with
48:31
men in particular, you've worked with.
48:33
Yeah.
48:33
How do you see male sexuality and shame relating or, you know, as the kind
48:39
of.
48:40
Do the.
48:40
Are they in.
48:41
In ways that might surprise men?
48:44
Rahi Chun: I mean, that's really.
48:45
I love the question, Jason, because it's a really deep question because it's.
48:50
I believe it's profoundly related.
48:54
I think,
48:55
you know, I think there is an.
48:59
I think there's a primal animal in masculine energy, just as there is
49:05
in feminine energy.
49:07
But for men, since we're talking about men, there's a primal animal that wants to
49:10
devour, that wants to take our woman, that wants to, you know, consume.
49:16
And I think there's,
49:18
you know, like, you mentioned the Me Too movement.
49:20
And I think there's like, a real kind of schizophrenic messaging that our bodies are
49:26
getting as men.
49:27
You know, we're being told, you know, like, portrayals of that primal,
49:33
desirous energy
49:35
being mischanneled.
49:38
You know, there are just plenty of horrific examples of that.
49:41
So I think there is shame.
49:43
And, you know, of course, we live in, you know,
49:47
like, a colonialist, patriarchal society, you know, where we raped and
49:53
stole from Native Americans to be here.
49:55
And, you know, all of this, the history of the world is all about colonizing.
49:59
So I think there's something about, like,
50:02
there are parallels that can be drawn between that and sexuality when there's that
50:07
devouring, primal nature.
50:09
And so I think it's up to each man to come to peace
50:14
in celebrating, accepting and honoring that beautiful primal energy that wants to
50:20
devour something beautiful, you know, as well as recognize, like, how that can go
50:25
toxic when it is unattuned.
50:29
And when it is unpresent and when it's coming from a hungry ghost place.
50:35
But shame and sexuality,
50:38
it's a deep topic, I think.
50:40
You know, we talked about how young men shut down.
50:44
I think there's a lot of shame,
50:46
you know, around men being
50:49
like not sexually virile, not having an erect penis, not having, not, you know,
50:53
lasting long, all of those things.
50:56
That is really sad because it, you know, it, it comes into the bedroom in different
51:01
ways and a lot of women will assume it's their fault that the man isn't,
51:08
you know, like having an erection or feeling withdrawn or not coming after me
51:13
or, you know, so it becomes this whole distorted
51:18
energy within
51:20
the
51:21
world of intimacy.
51:23
Jason Lange: Yeah.
51:24
Oh yeah,
51:25
there's.
51:25
It's like a contagion in a way I hadn't thought about.
51:29
If I'm feeling shame around my ability to perform as a man, particularly,
51:35
you know, often shame means I don't want to talk about it.
51:38
Rahi Chun: Right.
51:39
Jason Lange: Because I'm ashamed to even talk about it.
51:41
Which then leaves this gap of interpretation for my partner as to what might be
51:46
going on, which might then trigger her shame, of course, which means she wants to
51:50
withdraw more.
51:51
And then, yeah, yeah, we're getting pulled apart, even though we might be right next
51:55
to each other in a lot of ways.
51:58
And
51:59
yeah, as we wind down here, I'm just curious
52:03
for a man out here listening that maybe this is his first time hearing about
52:08
somatic sexual body work and
52:11
de armoring and all the things we've been talking about.
52:15
What have you seen becomes possible for a man as he engages
52:20
at this level with the work and his sexuality?
52:23
Rahi Chun: Sure.
52:24
Well, you know, it was really beautiful.
52:28
Like recently Ariel and I have worked with several couples.
52:32
And for example,
52:35
you know, one couple,
52:37
a man was able to let go of his goal orientation in lovemaking,
52:44
which is huge because this is, you know, a middle aged man who's very, you know,
52:48
driven in the kind of business world.
52:51
And for him to really let go of it, because that's all his partner ever wanted was
52:55
his presence.
52:56
He's always like three steps ahead and not present with her.
53:01
Right.
53:01
And so for him to just release that goal orientation and find that, wow, there's
53:07
a lot of sensation here by letting go of that pressure.
53:12
Right.
53:13
Something like that can happen.
53:15
Or,
53:17
you know, another, another couple we worked with,
53:21
he was really fixated on what we were talking about.
53:24
Like
53:25
a man needs to be erect to please his woman, you know, and for him to let go
53:31
of that and allow his penis to get erect and then Go soft and then get erect again
53:35
without getting hijacked mentally with the state of his penis.
53:41
That was a huge win for him, you know, and then there was another couple where.
53:50
He's finding his power, you know, and it's something his partner has just yearned
53:56
for because she's been kind of wearing the pants, you know, in that relationship,
54:02
and she doesn't want to.
54:03
She wants him to take charge.
54:06
So for him to realize, okay, he can be his aggression, it doesn't mean he's
54:11
a toxic man because he's present and aware of it.
54:15
Let me explore being in my power and taking charge.
54:20
That was like a game changer for them.
54:22
So, you know, like, there's something.
54:25
This work in exploring the embodiment of your sexual energy that can offer
54:32
some breakthrough or new discovery for anyone.
54:36
But those are a few examples.
54:39
Jason Lange: I love those.
54:40
Well, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today.
54:44
I feel like we could probably do a million more of these, so we'll have to do it
54:47
again sometimes.
54:48
Lots of things to talk about,
54:51
but.
54:51
Yeah.
54:52
What's the best way for people to follow up with you or keep track of you and your
54:56
work and everything you and your wife are up to?
54:59
Rahi Chun: Sure.
55:01
My website is rahichan.com and all of my work is there.
55:06
I am working on a men's sexual wholeness course.
55:09
So it'll be called Sovereign, and it really speaks to how,
55:14
you know, we need to be sovereign within our.
55:17
Within our own sexual energy and not need anything from somebody else.
55:21
Right.
55:22
Then we show up fully in our presence, in our wholeness.
55:25
So you can go to rahichand.com, get on the E list.
55:28
My wife and I have a separate body of work called Divine Union for lovers, and it's
55:33
divineunion4lovers.com for couples and partnerships.
55:38
Jason Lange: Super cool.
55:39
Well, thank you so much once again for being willing to be here and share all your
55:44
wisdom.
55:45
I hope men out there feel a little more relaxed and compassion for themselves in
55:50
terms of maybe what they've been struggling with and know that, you know, the.
55:55
The.
55:55
It can change.
55:56
Right?
55:57
All this stuff can change.
55:58
You can engage with the work in the body, and you can really have some pretty deep
56:01
transformations.
56:03
And, you know, I think the.
56:04
The amazing thing, right, about sex is every time I'm like, I don't think I could
56:08
ever have better sex than that.
56:09
It's like, wow, it can just keep unfolding.
56:12
Rahi Chun: Exactly.
56:13
Jason Lange: Unbelievable.
56:15
Rahi Chun: Yeah.
56:15
It's unending, Unending new discoveries.
56:19
And before we sign off, Jason, I want to really acknowledge you for all of the work
56:23
you've been doing with men.
56:25
Holding space,
56:27
really holding a safe space, a compassionate space for men to show up exactly as
56:33
they are.
56:33
Because that's what's missing in our world.
56:35
All these societal expectations make men feel like they're always falling short, you
56:41
know, and you being such a compassionate heart and, you know, having that safe space
56:46
for men really transforms that for, you know, the men you work with.
56:52
Jason Lange: Yeah.
56:52
Thank you for seeing that.
56:53
And thank you.
56:54
Glad to know I have such a powerful ally like you out there as.
56:59
Yeah, we all need the support from each other and to keep extending the support to
57:04
other men.
57:05
Rahi Chun: Yes.
57:05
Jason Lange: Yeah.
57:05
Thank you so much, Rahi.
57:07
Rahi Chun: Thanks, Chase.
57:08
Jason Lange: All right, until next time, guys.