Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Why More People Feel Stuck Than Ever... And What Actually Helps | Episode 7
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill. This episode is gonna be a little different. Over the past few weeks, we've shared a lot. Episode one was just kind of introducing the podcast. Episode two, Mark shared his story. Episode three, I shared mine. And then after that, we had some really incredible guests. We had Leonard, we had Inez, had Schaefer. ⁓ So very different people, different backgrounds. But after all of that, we felt like... It was important to kind of just pause for a second, know, kind of bring it back to home base and, talk a little bit more about kind of what we're seeing around ⁓ world now, ⁓ especially, you know, Mark more so than myself, because ⁓ he's out ⁓ doing the ⁓ every day people. But, that's something that we really wanted to talk about and kind of remind people that we're not just a show about interviews, but we're a show that, ⁓ really wants to make a out in the world. and that's why we're using this podcast. I mean, ⁓ I ⁓ you kind of feel the same way, but with completely different stories, it seems like, ⁓ you know, with different people that we interviewed, it all kind of keeps coming back to the same place. What do you think? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): 100 % of those for sure. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean people feel overwhelmed, feel stuck, they feel like they're supposed to have everything figured out, but they don't, you know? And so from your side, Mark, you know, the stuff that you're seeing every day, I mean, does that line up with what you're experiencing? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I mean, here's the thing, Kous. All my struggles were pre-COVID. And always talk about this. like the timing couldn't have been more impeccable. And you know, this is where my connection came back with my higher power, my spiritual awakening and all that stuff, because I was part of programs, hospitals as a patient pre-COVID. Drug and alcohol recovery centers pre-COVID. Going to support groups, going to AA meetings pre-COVID. I got sober during COVID, you know, July of 2020 as my sober date. And, you know, for a while there, couldn't attend those meetings. And when things opened up after COVID. It just seemed like there was a complete pendulum change. mean, meetings that I went to that normally only had eight to 10 people pre-COVID had literally 70 to 80 people showing up in person with another 30 to 50, depending on the night zooming in. You know, the demographics in those meetings completely changed as far as, know, we saw a lot more female showing up and, you know, pre-COVID, I mean, I was what, 42, 43, 44 years old going to those meetings. And I was like the youngest person in the room. Now you go to a meeting and I'd have to say more than half the people in the room are under the age of 30. So, I mean, it's been a complete shift. And the thing about it was that that was immediately after COVID. It just feels like a tidal wave building up because things have not gotten better. know, things really opened up permanently again, what sometime in early 2021, we're bouncing back and forth most of 2020. And now here we are in 2026 and it just seems like this wave is just building and building and building and it just seems to me like there's no end in sight. Now I remember actually saying During COVID and the little aftermath after COVID, when I saw those changes in the demographics in the meetings, that when the history books are written, the story is not going to be COVID. It's going to be the mental health crisis post COVID. And I was hoping that that wasn't the case, but from what I see out there, speaking at the hospitals, visiting recovery centers, just in my day-to-day activities, you know, as far as getting texts from different people that are for help. It certainly appears that unfortunately that prediction I believe is coming true right before our very eyes. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): We'll start calling you Nostromarcus. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I wish that wasn't the case, but it was pretty apparent early on. I just didn't know if it would subside a bit and it just seemed like it's getting worse. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean, and it's not that people don't care. It's not that they're not trying. is that they're trying, they're all carrying too much. There's just the weight of the world rests on everyone's shoulders. It's just people have never been more stressed out, ⁓ know, financially, ⁓ relationships. I mean, we were talking yesterday on a podcast to someone about the fact that, you know, families have never been as disconnected as they are now. ⁓ And, you know, just all the stuff that's going on, I mean, that's obviously, you know, really where all this started for us, because we keep seeing the same thing over and every over again and it's not that people are broken they're just they're overloaded you know Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean, it's a variety of factors. mean, obviously going back to COVID, the whole isolation thing, when you talk to the youth now, that what are probably in their early to mid 20s, you know, they feel part of their, part of their childhood was taken away. You know, some of their high school years were taken away. Maybe they couldn't walk down the aisle and actually get their diploma. They had a virtual graduation ceremony. ⁓ Obviously some stresses in the household. Divorce rate in this country is up. It's north of 50%. I think it's like 51 or 52%. You have a lot of broken households. ⁓ really, mean, the other thing too is, you know, I mean, our society, you know, the American way, in my opinion is broken, you know, because unfortunately everything that's kind of pushed down our throat from an advertisement perspective really affects that brain chemistry in a negative manner and that doesn't help the mental health crisis as well and or the addiction crisis that's going on out there right now. ⁓ I I can't point the finger at one thing. It's a variety of things, but certainly things changed after 2020, 100%. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, you know, and then... You know, people think they need to fix themselves because, you know, they're broken ⁓ or they're defective. I mean, you know, because obviously we're still dealing with that stigma of, you know, mental health and people want to be like, I don't have a mental health problem. And, you know, it's like, but you got problems, right? But it affects you emotionally. Yeah. So, I mean, you don't have to call it, ⁓ you know, you don't have to label it necessarily, but, you know, we're all struggling in some way, or form. ⁓ I kind of go back to the radio interview at WSBY, ⁓ which, you know, I unfortunately had to take that one without you. You know, I don't like doing that, but, you know, it was a great experience. And, you know, I was coming home from that interview and I was like, man, that was great. That went well. Like, I feel like I really landed everything I wanted to and talked about the work that we're doing. I was so excited. And I really thought that was going to be like the greatest moment of the experience, right? And then I come home and then I open up my email and I was absolutely blown away. It made the little bit of high that I got, know, you know, my, my, I guess a good dopamine hit that I got from that experience. And it made it seem like it's, it made it seem almost petty because I opened this email from this woman. And obviously, Mark, you know the story, but just to share it again for our audience. And this woman wrote to me and said, you have no idea what it meant to me to, ⁓ and I actually made a post about this with the exact words, because I reread her messages and I got permission to do so. ⁓ But she basically said, you have no idea what it meant to me to have you ⁓ be vulnerable on the radio and share your story and what you guys are doing. And I would love to to have a copy of your book, I think it could really help me and just keep doing what you're doing. honestly, I've never talked to anybody about the problems that I'm dealing with. And then she kind of laid out a bit of her story. I mean, she had never said that out loud, maybe even to herself, but by hearing the interview that I did, it allowed her to feel like, hey, ⁓ I'm not alone. And I can go ahead and tell other people what I'm going through because I'm not alone and other people will understand and I won't be judged and I don't need to be full of shame and guilt and... Man, like that was amazing. And I hope to keep in contact with her and see if there's anything that I can do to help her, just give her someone to talk to. that's really what makes all this work that we're doing worth it is those people. And Mark, you've said that before. You're like, if I go and speak somewhere and it even touches one single person there, it was worth doing it. And you've said that many times. I can relate and it's you know this I know it's got to be tough to talk in some of these environments and see how many people are suffering and stuff but I know that it's got to be rewarding as well because I just you know it was that one person for me but it felt like wow that's that's what this is ⁓ and you know it also kind of reminds me of you know when we have guests on and you know we try and make them feel comfortable make them feel like you know there's there's nothing that they would ever get judged for saying or you know admit or anything like that. as a specific circumstance, we had ⁓ Inez on, which she was awesome. She is such a baddie, love her, she's amazing. But she sent me a message after we had her on. And she said, you know, I've been on lots of podcasts, I've done lots of interviews, and I'm generally a pretty open person. ⁓ Her struggles, her being on the spectrum, I'm like all that stuff. It's public knowledge. I mean I did my research before he had her on and it's public knowledge She said but I have never shared my full story to anyone Other than my father that I shared with you and she's like and I just felt comfortable to do that And I mean, like, that's huge, too. I mean, our guests that are coming on that are sharing their stories and their stories are them already kind of coming out the other side, not that they don't consider themselves to still be works in progress. But generally, when people are coming to us, you know, we want to share people who are struggling but have have found a way through. Now, that's not to say that we wouldn't open the opportunity for people to come on and say, you know, hey, I'm I'm struggling, you know, and I don't mind admitting it, but I'm just kind of trying to figure out where to go next. I would have those people on for sure. ⁓ But yes, the work that we're doing, it means something and the podcast really is about us being able to bring that to more people than we can possibly see in person. that's kind of how we feel about that. ⁓ But I kind of want to bring it back to Mark ⁓ because... Man, ⁓ you've got some incredible stories. You're not just out helping people in your full-time job at all the different places you go as recovery and support specialist. You have people come up to you off the street, grocery stores, gas stations, the whole thing. when I say that you've got incredible stories, I don't want to minimize the struggle that people are going through. It's not incredible in that way. I just think it's really incredible that people just look at you And it's like as if you're holding up a sign saying come talk to me. I'm a safe space Because it happens to you all the time mark, and I talk almost every single day and It seems like almost every time we talk he's got it Yep ran into this person and same thing and then shares a story with me like really like so I don't have it I'm gonna make sure you get some all and get some all in and and because there's some fascinating ones And if he doesn't touch on it, I definitely want to be like hey, what about that and so but I mean tell Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): you know, tell me what you're seeing, maybe some of your stories. I'd love for our audience to hear some of what I get to hear on a daily basis. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Well, first of all, regarding what you said about this lady that emailed you, I mean, that's really what I envisioned. You know, we have to normalize these conversations and I think that's the point of the podcast and that's what we what we did by you know writing the book and you know the two books actually And and and may is mental health awareness month So I want to get a plug in for that and you hear about an endostigma and all that stuff and that's all great And we've come a long way as a society But here's the thing. We have a very very long way to go a tremendous way to go and you know the mental health thing okay you do hear people say well I don't have mental everybody has mental health everybody has physical health mental health and spiritual health the question is where you at the pendulum You know, is your physical health thriving or do we have to make changes? Is your spiritual health thriving or do we have to make changes? Well, guess what? Everybody has mental health. Is your mental health thriving or do changes need to take place because you're having some anxious feelings? Okay. Or you're getting some panic attacks or you're having problems sleeping at night because you have a racing brain or you're getting depressed thoughts throughout the course of the day. And the thing about it is. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Well said. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): is there's a lot of people out there that are having all those issues and they're just keeping it a bottle of open side saying I don't have mental health. And the reason being is because of shame and because of guilt and because of stigma. So yes, we've come a long way, but we have such a long way to go. And I, I, cannot explain it, Kelsey, and you and I've had some conversations. mean, the only, the only way I can explain it is chalk it up to the man upstairs. Just the word position that I've been put into. Um, no. I obviously wear myself for the tougher hoodies or t-shirts depending on the time of the year. And I do wear a lot of recovery t-shirts. You know, I wear recovery t-shirts from an organization called the Valhalla project. That's got like a lot of positive sayings on there. And I, and I buy those t-shirts from that organization because part of the money goes towards mental health awareness and for the veterans, you know, we've got 22 veterans a day that unfortunately are dying by suicide. And I don't think we're doing enough for them. You know, so I do. wear lot of those t-shirts but most of the time it's to suffer the tougher stuff you know and people just see that hoodie or see that shirt and they're like what does that mean and when they ask me what does that mean usually the first thing I say well you know I struggle with my mental health and I'm a drug addict and alcoholic living a life of recovery I got no shame I have no guilt for that okay to me I wear it as like a badge of of courage if you will because I came out on the other side and you know when I say that Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Mm-hmm. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): That's usually when the floodgates open, you know, I have a young adult child in my household that's gone through a bad time You know, I'm going through a bad time I mean probably the craziest story that I had recently was it was actually on February 15th. It was the day after Valentine's Day. I was in Costco and Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): You have the most amazing way of remembering exact dates of things. I'm lucky if I remember my own birthday. I just had to say that. He remembers crazy dates. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Well, I remember it only because the lady that was handing out these little samples told me that she worked. 10 days, excuse me, 10 hours on Valentine's day. And she got home from work and her partner was all drunk and high and he struggles with alcohol and drugs and wanted to know what she was going to make for dinner for Valentine's day. You know, but, you know, I started talking about suffer the tougher and she was telling me that she's an end stage renal failure and she's working 10 hours a day to keep her benefits because if she's fortunate enough to find somebody that's a match on a kidney transplant. She obviously wants to address the condition and I was kind of dumbfounded. And the sad part about it was when we were waiting in line to get the little sample, was protein infused pancakes. She was coughing a lot and a lot of people were kind of making fun of her thinking that she shouldn't be working, that she's sick, you know, she shouldn't be passing out these samples. And there were people behind me that were making comments as well. And when she said what she said, of course, everybody, you know, lightened up and said, okay, well, there's obviously a medical condition. You know, people are so rushed to judge. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Absolutely. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Especially, know, she shared her story about her partner struggling with mental health, alcohol and substance use. You know, she shared her story of some of the challenges that she's going through right now. But what was amazing to me were the people behind me that started opening up, telling me stories about their partner or their young adult children. I mean, it was almost like, it was almost like I was doing a little recovery meeting in the middle of Cascawile. And that happens to me quite have been actually. Yeah, also, it's like it was, I was with my girlfriend and her daughter and they just did the rest of the shopping. They got done with the shopping and then they came back and I go, okay, it's time to check out Mark, we got to end it. And I'm like, okay, you I got to go, you know, because I could have, I could have stood there and talked to these individuals literally probably for an hour. I mean, they were asking questions. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Exactly Time's up, see you next week. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean, they were asking questions about mental health, what we do in the community, alcohol usage, substance usage, you know, my opinion about weed being illegal. mean, everything. mean, the conversation went about a hundred different ways in like 20, 25 minutes. I mean, you see that, you know, you go to the gym. wear my t-shirt at the gym, you know. People will come up to me and be like, hey, what does that t-shirt mean? Same thing. I struggle with mental health and I'm an alcoholic and drug addict in recovery. One dude I see in there every single day, turns out he's a vet, he's struggling with PTSD, and it divulges to me that he's struggling with heroin and alcohol. Yet he's at the gym every morning. And also he started having a conversation about how he can get his life straight and work on that PTSD and get sober off of the alcohol and heroin. ⁓ Most recently, I've changed a lot. You know, I have changed a lot. I often say that if I could stop and have a conversation with somebody begging for money, you know, at a stoplight or outside of a gas station or outside of a Juul hospital, I would just, you know, I used to look at people like that and be like, what the hell? Why don't they get a job? Why don't they, you know, suck it up? I mean, the whole... Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Great. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): male mentality. Now I look at those individuals and I'm like What the hell happened in their life to put them in that position? And if I have time, I will, you know, stop. And, you know, I was at a gas station. It was early, man. It was after the gym. was just this week around 5.30 in the morning. And a gentleman was outside this BPM ago, you know, asking for money. I didn't have any, any money. didn't have any cash. just had my debit card on me. And, you know, I felt bad because, you know, people were just walking past them and, you know, there was one derogatory comment that was made. I just stopped him like, I'm sorry. I wish I had some cash on me. I've struggled in the past as well. I got some mental health and some addiction issues and so forth. And he just kind of looked at me and I go, what's going on, man? Well, he's battling alcohol. And he's battling alcohol really bad because his wife passed away a couple of years ago very suddenly. And he just hasn't been able to overcome it. So I had some change in my cup holder in my car. go, listen, the only cash I have on me is some loose change, but I'm more than happy to give you and loose change, because you just got to promise me one thing, you're going to spend that money on food, you know, or a non-alcoholic beverage. I don't want to be feeding a habit. I want you to get better. You know, and he was so grateful for that. ⁓ I mean, I've had people come up to me, shit, I was at a frigging rest area in the middle of India, south of Indianapolis. I was wearing a grunt style t-shirt, so I did have an American flag on there and some dude walks up to me and goes, are you a vet? go, no, I'm not a vet. And he started telling me about how he's a vet and he was a casualty of an IED roadside bomb, you know, and he had a number of surgeries, you know, to fix his legs and how he got hooked on frigging pain pills and how he can't beat pain pills and he's homeless. And I look at him and I'm like, this is, this is weird, you know, because if you're familiar with my story, if the audience has read my story, that's what happened to me. I got hooked on pain pills because of a neck and back issue. Instead of getting back on the road, I talked to the gentleman for about a good half hour, 45 minutes about recovery from opiate addiction and what he needed to do. Just try to give him some guidance. I mean, it just happens all the time. I've had people follow me out. I was at a Woodmans, a grocery store in the North Suburbs, and I was wearing a mental health awareness t-shirt. And somebody followed me out to my car and she goes, excuse me, sir. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, I couldn't help but notice your t-shirt. She goes, and she goes, commend you for wearing that. And I'm like, what are you commending me for wearing that? She goes, well, it's very brave of you. go, well, why is that brave? She goes, a lot of people don't like putting that on their t-shirts because that tells me that you've struggled in the past. I'm like, I don't give a shit if I struggled in the past. I go, that doesn't define me. I mean, it's being human. And also she started telling me about what's going on in her household. You know, and she was familiar with an organization called NAMI that I do a lot of volunteer work for, National Alliance on Mental Illness. But she was familiar with the chapter up north. She wasn't familiar with the chapter that I'm affiliated with, which is in DuPage County. We just sat in my car and bullshitted her for a little bit. I mean, it does it. It happens all the time. And that's just being out. I can't begin to tell you, and you know this, but I can't begin to tell the audience what a normal weekend looks like for me. because I will get messages on Facebook Messenger and I will get texts from individuals all through the night every single weekend. People are out excessively drinking. I need to stop. I need some help. What should I do? And it's all driven by stuff that's going on inside of here. It's all been driven and it's a variety of reasons, you know, whether they have a strained relationship with their children or, you know, they don't see their kids as often because of the divorce and the way the, the, the arrangements were made as far as visitation goes. ⁓ Financial stress is a big one right now. mean, I'm hearing that over and over. People are using credit cards to buy groceries to feed their families. They don't know what they're gonna do. That's creating anxiety. And then as a result of the anxiety, they're picking up some bad habits. It's not always alcohol or drugs either, or substances. I mean, I'm hearing a lot more stories of people struggling with gambling. Online shopping addictions, you know, are very, very prevalent. They're very real. ⁓ Obviously various sexual addictions. I mean you see that too you hear about that as well. I hoarding You know, mean hoarding is a big thing too And and that's and that's an addictive tendency typically driven by underlying mental health You know and you know back when I was in the insurance industry way back when okay when we had to go to people's houses I, you know, every now and then I'd walk into a house and there was hoarding tendencies. We just didn't know it was hoarding because there wasn't a TV show back then, but there was shit all over the place, you know? I've been in a few houses where people have asked me to come by and talk to them about mental health and that, and you can't even friggin' in the front door. I mean, that's a very, very real thing. And I've seen that quite a bit recently as well, within the last couple of years since COVID happened. So there's a lot of shit that's going on out there. Sorry for swearing, I'm just kind of keeping it real. ⁓ but we just need to normalize these conversations. need to normalize these conversations no differently than us talking about what we had for dinner last night or what we did with our wife or our partner or our girlfriend or boyfriend. If you're two females talking or what have you. I mean, this should be everyday stuff, but it's not because of the shame and guilt. And I, I do think that we are a safe space, both you and me, and you and I both heard this. multiple times that there's been stuff shared with us that has not been shared even inside their own families and a lot of times and that does make me feel good but it also makes me feel sad at the same time that they can't get this shit off their chest because I'm yeah I'm only speaking from my personal experience I mean that's really all this stuff all these secrets is what drove my addictive tendencies Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that too. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): And, I care about people and I don't want anybody to go down the path that I went down. know? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not, sorry. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): to point real quick, Mark. I just wanna interject for a second because, no, that's okay. No, no, and we'll get back But I do wanna go back. Just to kind of, for those people who might not know you quite so well, ⁓ when you talk about in a Costco, you're there and like talking for like 20, 25 minutes and it's like, okay, it's time to check out. And it's like, you have to remember Mark, how many people would spend five minutes talking to somebody inside of a Costco? You made it seem like, you know, it's 20, 25 minutes, like it was no big deal. Like it was only 20 or 25 minutes. Most people don't want to stop in a grocery store to talk to someone for two minutes. Everyone's in a hurry. We've all got to go. We've all got places to go. We've all got things to do. We've got stress. We've got things waiting us down. And Mark, you make the time even when you don't have the time. And I want everyone to know that. And when he talks about these text messages and phone calls that he gets on a weekend, I mean obviously if you guys can put one plus one together, the reason why he gets those over the weekend is because that's when people are generally out partying, when they shouldn't be, they're drinking, when they know that they shouldn't, they feel that guilt and shame after the weekend and go, ⁓ man, I had a plan but I didn't follow my plan, I better, I mean they treat Mark like he's actually their sponsor and he gets those calls. and those messages all the time and ⁓ last week we were supposed to be meeting with a guy online on Monday and the guy had to cancel and Mark's like good I've got like 30 calls to return to people and I mean I'm just being real with you guys you know he's he's got that many calls and messages and after the weekend he's not thinking like what are the emergencies or he's like that's what I'm gonna be doing with my Monday night because I I don't have this meeting now so now okay cool I can get back to these people and he does Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): one. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): everything in his power. I can't tell you how many times I've said, Mark, you're only one person. know, some people are gonna have to find other resources other than you. You can't be everything for everyone and Mark's like, well I sure as can try. And he does. So I want everyone to know that. I mean, he's just he's amazing that way. And, you know, he's a very humble person. He's, you know, probably sitting there thinking to thinking to himself like, you're kind of embarrassing me or something about. No, I just want everyone to know he literally tries to help. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): anyone and everyone he can and often times to his own detriment. mean that's, I thank God you work out early in the morning because I don't know how else you would get it in because after work you're always thinking to yourself who do I have to get back to, who needs my help right now and that's just who you are. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): ⁓ I appreciate it, but you also have to understand the world that I came from, you know, and I can't stress this enough. There are people that answered my phone calls in the middle of the night because it was ugly. It was bad. There were people there that would stay on the phone for hours, fearful that I wasn't going to make it to the next morning. You know, and, and, the hospital speaking thing and, know, I know we've beat this up on the other podcast, but I want to reiterate it again. The reason why I wanted to get involved and speak at the hospitals is because I saw a gentleman speak the last time I was hospitalized and he shared his life experience with me. And it resonated with me to the point where it changed my life in 45 minutes. And, ⁓ if that gentleman didn't speak at that hospital at the time that he spoke at the hospital, I don't. know if I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, we're literally talking about life or death situations when you start talking about alcohol and substances and mental health. And I've seen a lot of people not make it, not gonna lie, but I've also seen a tremendous amount of people come out on the other side and that's where my focus is at. I've seen a lot of living miracles. And to me, and you know this Kelsey, and I've said this so many times, if there's a pulse, there's hope. You just have to get through to them and it could be one word that you say. that just resonates in their brain and drives the change that's needed for them to get on the other side and, and devote the rest of their days on this earth in a meaningful way. And, you know, a of the individuals that I have helped are paying it forward, you know, inside their communities as well. And that's a beautiful thing as well. And, ⁓ but yeah, I mean, I, I do that because I remember what it's like to be that low and it's not a fun place to be. And I will tell you that the people that were there that were answering those phone calls were people really that I didn't have relationships with. You know, they just stepped up. But the reason why they stepped up is because they were that low at one point as well. And, uh, I know. I just, I just feel it's the right thing to do. I mean, I, you're literally helping somebody not die if that makes sense. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Now, and I mean, it does get overwhelming and it gets frustrating too. And I guess the reason why it gets frustrating is I wish that these individuals had hundreds of people that they can call and be able to feel comfortable enough to have these discussions. And that's where we need to grow as a society. I mean, I'm going to use the example again of somebody who has cancer versus somebody who's dealing with the mental health crisis and or some type of addiction crisis. And let's use the element of a family. Okay. Somebody gets diagnosed with cancer typically within 24 to 48, maybe within three days, 48 hours to 72 hours, okay? The family's gonna know about it. They're gonna get shitloads of phone calls. They're gonna get offers to drive them to and from treatment. They're gonna have meals being dropped off to their house, okay? And that's just how it is. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Thank Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): We have, or I had a disease, have still, okay, I'm in recovery, but I mean, have to do things every day to drive my recovery. I have a disease that's in the same damn category as cancer. A lot of these individuals we're talking about have a disease that's in the same category as cancer. The American Medical Association says so. Yet when somebody gets diagnosed with the mental health crisis, and they're dealing with some type of addiction crisis. Do you see the same love and the same care? Hell no. Hell no. It's like the parting of the Red Sea. I mean, some of the closest relatives, because they don't feel comfortable having those conversations run the other way. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): It's like addiction is contagious. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): And again, it's a situation where if the person doesn't make it, you hear, wish I would have done more. I wish I would have done this. And it's sad, you know, and I'm thinking of one person and one individual, okay. that I did have a conversation with a couple of weeks before they passed away. And I'm going to respect privacy here. ⁓ And I remember visiting this individual having a very lengthy conversation. And this individual divulged to me, you know, that they felt they were so alone. They're not even getting phone calls back from certain family members and so forth. was battling alcoholism pretty hard to the point literally when I met with them a couple of weeks before they passed away, they already had end stage liver disease in my opinion. Because the individual that are passing away, so I mean you hear all this stuff for three hours about how alone they feel, nobody responds to their texts, all this stuff. Then you go to the services and there's... Traffic's backed up on the street to get into the parking lot of the funeral home I'm gonna keep it real here. But I when I pull in the parking lot so that many cars where the fuck were these people at when this person was in their crisis And I'm being serious and that's exactly how I feel I mean where the fuck were these people at when they were in a crisis? Because again if they were dealing with cancer, it would be a completely different thing Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Amen. Yeah. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I just want a world where we can talk about this stuff. think if we talk about this stuff, there'd be more acceptance. With more acceptance, there'd be more healing. There'd be less addiction, less alcohol abuse, and we live in a much better society as opposed to a society that just seems like it's getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse because of all the stresses out there. It's real life shit. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean, I just think that sometimes people feel like they don't want their problems to be a burden to other people, like when it comes to family, or it's that shame and guilt. ⁓ When people see something but they don't really want to get into it, they're like, well, I don't want to pry. ⁓ they're choosing not to see it because they're so busy trying to avoid talking about their own shortcomings or thresholds we to call them. It's almost like if they speak it new existence, it doesn't exist. ⁓ And they're just pushing it which a lot of people do. and like you said with wearing your mental health shirts ⁓ and you know and us giving the interviews that we do ⁓ and be like ⁓ like you guys so open about you know what you've struggled with and what you're going through and ⁓ to us we're like why not like ⁓ it only makes us less than if we let it you know ⁓ we think how we is normal and that other people feel that way too but they just ⁓ they don't feel comfortable putting it out there ⁓ and if us putting stuff out there helps them, then... That's worth potential embarrassment that some people think that we're supposed to feel, but we really don't. So, I mean, that's kinda what we're all about. And like we that's this isn't just a podcast. It's about changing how people understand what they're going through. And we're trying to hit larger audience with our stuff. This is only the beginning. I mean, it's funny because, you know, Mark and I are such progressive people that, you know, we're always trying to figure out like what's the next move, what's the next step, you know, where are we trying to go. And we have all kinds of ideas and strategies and things like that, but it almost seems like it's always not moving fast enough because, you know, we hear this story, that story, like, ⁓ man, if we could have just done this before that, like maybe this. And so that's the way we think. So we're very progressive. But then sometimes we have to kind of ground ourselves and be like, we've actually only been doing this for nine months. know, ⁓ actually, the original book came out in June, right? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, so Sovereign to Tougher came out in June so mean, okay, so it's been maybe closer to 10 months, but I'm not trying to pat ourselves the back necessarily, but just to kind of take stock of, ⁓ you know, the ⁓ emphasis and the urgency in which ⁓ we this work. ⁓ that's, mean, we've put out two and the second one, we had thought about, but we weren't really making a plan to it till, ⁓ you know, at least a year in and I think we did it, what, like three, four months later, we came out with the second book because people were asking for it. we ⁓ did website, we've got the podcast, we're taking just about any podcast invite where people wanna have us on, because again, we can talk to larger audiences, more people. And we just wanna out there and be real so that people can feel like they can be real. ⁓ moving forward, we ⁓ wanna keep building more conversation. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): more stories, more ways of helping people, and more ways for people to actually take what they're hearing and apply it to their own lives. Certainly we lay that out really well in the book, and so sometimes Mark tells some of the people that reach out to him, and it's not to be harsh, but to say, hey, have you gotten our book yet? And it's not like we're making a ton of money off these books or anything like that, and we've probably given a lot of way to people who we're in need and you know I think we're going to continue to do that but it's not about the making money from a book it's about like hey this is a really good place to start we wrote this book for a reason we were really confident that it can help people why don't you read the book and then get back to me. So not saying I don't want to hear you out and I don't want to help you, but read that book first because it might help put some things in perspective and then maybe it gives us some better talking points where instead of just hearing what you're going through, we can actually take what you learn from the book and put together a strategy for you. And that's really what we want to do. So if anyone ever has Mark tell them, it's not that I don't want to talk to you, but go and read my book and then come back to me and we'll have a more in conversation because then it's not just hearing about what you got going on, it's about hearing it but then also having a way for us to make progress, for you to feel better. So I just want to get that out there because it's something that you deal with a lot is having people reach out to you and you're like, please start with the book, please. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Okay. Yeah. Well, one, it's a resource guide to its pure self help. So I mean, it's not, we've had people use the book to get their diabetes in check. Okay. ⁓ so I think that's important to understand. But the other thing too is for them reading it, it gives us an opportunity for them to open up to us and now we can meet them where they're at. and strategize from there. want to say, I want to say another thing too, Kels, if I can, okay? Cause you, brought up something a little earlier that, that reminded me of this. When you start talking about the brain is an interesting organ, most studied organ, but also the organ we know the least about. And when we start talking about mental health, okay. It seems to me, we always look at why we're different than the person down the street or down the hall or sitting next to you at work. We always look at the differences. And I was no different than that. And I always cite my first AA meeting. I mean, I went to my first AA meeting, I walked into the AA meeting saying, this is good. I know I got a problem. And I walked out of that meeting thinking to myself, man, I'm not as bad as I thought I was. Because in that meeting, I heard stories of divorce, strong relationship with kids, DUIs, financial stress, losing jobs. You know, I heard it all. So, you I walked in thinking I got a problem. I walked up and I'm not as bad as I thought. You fast forward a year, year and a half. Everything that I just said happened to me. Everything. But if I would have focused on the similarities of those individual stories of the run up that led them to their divorce or their legal issues, them losing their job, everything was right there. You know, and when I speak at the hospitals, whether it's Good Samaritan Downers, Glenn Oaks and Glendale Heights, Lyndon Oaks and Naperville, or we do our presentations, you know, at various places as well. ⁓ It doesn't take a genius. It doesn't make a difference if it's a male, female, what age group, what ethnicity. There are so many commonalities and similarities in everybody's story to the run up to where they got to. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Mm-hmm. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): It never fails. Okay. You just, it's literally connecting the dots. So this stuff is real. We want to focus. You want to focus on the similarities, not the difference or why your differences or why I'm different in this person. And I can do this on my own. can't do it on your own. There's no outsmarting this. I've seen the smartest people that I know in my life. Unfortunately, they're no longer here because they never accepted help. It took me to lose everything, me to say, you know what, fuck it. got nothing. The only thing I have left to lose is my friggin' life. And I don't want to die. So, let me just... Let me just accept the help and you tell me what I need to do. And I did it and here I am. I think that's so important to understand, you know? Because... This shit's real, And there's a lot of people out there that struggling with this internal. issues, you know, again, heart racing, shortness of breath, problems sleeping, mind race, racing, depressed stuff throughout the course of the day. Reliving my parents going through a divorce, you know, when I was 11 or 12 years old, you hear that quite a bit as well. I didn't have a normal childhood. I was bouncing back and forth between mom and dad. All this stuff is what you hear when you're at the hospital. So let them through crisis and let them through some form of like a gift of tendency. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Mm-hmm. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): can normalize these conversations that allows them to heal. If they heal, they don't necessarily have to go down that path. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, and the other thing too is something that you mentioned was you may not realize this, but from what I got from that, you know, the first day going to AA, okay, what you might not even realize, but I picked up on was in that story is like you went in there thinking, okay, I have a problem. I need help. How many people go to their first meeting because someone tells them to? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): or maybe they're court ordered to do so. Okay, so not even everyone who goes to their first meeting actually has the awareness that you did. And you just see how far you fell from even that awareness point. before you actually reach level of acceptance, because I think it's like awareness then acceptance, then it's trying to actually out a plan of ⁓ how to move forward. ⁓ actually have a virtual that's gonna be later this ⁓ we're gonna have 40 to 50 speakers coming in. ⁓ And the name of the summit is the Transformation Gap. basically goes from that point of awareness to you know what you're trying to achieve and it's it's that messy middle. And so we're gonna have a bunch of speakers talking on how you can progress from that point of awareness to the point of, structured strength or wherever it is that you're trying to go. but ⁓ it's interesting ⁓ you are there at point where you had that awareness and a lot of people aren't. And it's, so sometimes that's half the battle. ⁓ of just getting people to even be aware that they have a problem, much less be willing to ask for and accept the help. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): you Here's the other thing that's interesting about that, okay? It was three of my sales reps that came to my office and said, Mark, we're taking you to a meeting. ⁓ And, you know, I really respected them and they brought me to that meeting. But what I found out in recovery is all three of them struggled themselves. So they had an understanding and a compassion and empathy. One gentleman, unfortunately, is no longer here. He relapsed on alcohol and succumbed to alcoholism. Another gentleman, he has stretches of sobriety and then he has slip-ups. He's doing better now, okay? Much better now. I think he's about a year sober right now, or maybe a little over a year sober. And then there's another gentleman that on the back end, once I got sober, I helped him get sober. And he's been sober, it'll be three years in July. But they all had their individual stories. They all had an understanding, and they're the ones that came to me. Nobody else did, you know, from the organization. But they had that compassion because they know what it's like to struggle. And I will never forget those men, especially the one that unfortunately passed away. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): So to kind of bring it back to our podcast here and what we're trying to do, what we're trying to build, what are you most excited in terms of growing this podcast? What are we hoping to achieve? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I want to provide education. want to provide support. And I want to, and I want to share stories of hope and inspiration because that's very important for the general public. We can do those three things on a regular basis. The individuals that are watching this on a regular basis are going to learn so much. They're going to feel comfortable with the support that they're getting, and they're going to be inspired to drive change in their life. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, and no matter where you're at. in your journey. more than welcome to reach out to us. we've got a million different ways to reach out to us now. We've got our suppertotuffer.org website where you can hit the contact button. We'll get an email. ⁓ Our email is suppertotuffer at Gmail. Mark and I share that email, so we both get the messages. We even have a little system where if we're the person that opens the email, we star it so the other person doesn't miss it. ⁓ we like to make sure that we're both ⁓ very involved everything that's going on. ⁓ And ⁓ S2T nation and then on Facebook we also have our community group stronger together with S2T. So we are very accessible. So certainly you can reach out to us. Also reach out to us if you have your own transformation story. Maybe you're our next guest. We want as many stories, as many people and if even as it's like, okay, well don't feel like I've reached the promised land. Well guess what? Mark calls himself, okay, for good reason. I'm an addict. in recovery, he doesn't say I was an addict. Okay, so if you have overcome something to a point where you feel like you have put your best foot forward and you live this life, That's a story, okay? It doesn't matter if you feel like you have become wealthy in life or you have this huge following or anything like that. If you have a story that you wanna share and it's gonna make you feel better to kinda get that story out there, whether it's to just make you feel better or you think other people can benefit from your story, definitely reach out to us. We would love to have you on. So I just wanna get that out there too, because this really is about the right way to grow our podcast. so I think it's probably a decent place to ⁓ close out for ⁓ this session. ⁓ I just say, if you've been listening, ⁓ or this is very first episode, ⁓ just know this, this resonates with you, you're exactly who this is for, ⁓ and you're not So you're you're caring more than you were ever meant to, ⁓ and ⁓ we're to you. So we appreciate you being here.