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#20 Be Body Positive: How to Create a Positive Body Mindset in College · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

I think every like teenage girl struggles with body image Upwards of like 80% of. Of young women feel this way.people will say things like, Well, I need to eat clean.there's a lot of functions to eating and food that are not just nutritionif you like, if you love yourself, you're gonna. Wanna eat the way that's most healthy for you  (Hi there listeners, in case you couldn't guess, we're going to talk about body image today. we have two great guests for you . The first person you'l hear from is a college student Margaret who came out of quarnatine ready to set the wolrd straight about how we should feel about our bodies and the food we put in it, and then we'll talk to summer Innanen, a devoted and successful body image coach who will give some concrete advice about how to beat back the onslaught of the messages that we get about how our bodies should look . These women are on the front lines and have done a lot more work than Liz and I have on this topic so I'm going to shut up now and let you hear from them. ) Hi there listeners, in case you couldn't guess we're going to talk about body image today. We have two great guests for you. The first person you'll hear from as a college student, Margaret who came out of quarantine, ready to set the world straight about how we should feel about our bodies and the food we put in it. And then we'll talk to summer nnn, a devoted and successful body image coach who will give some concrete advice about how to beat back the onset of messages that we get about how our bodies should look. These women are on the front lines of had done a lot more work than Liz and I have on this topic. So I'm just going to shut up now and let you hear from them.  Hi everyone. , my name's Margaret. , I'm a college student. I go to Boy and Mary. I'm a junior. I'm a psychology major and I love, , increasing access to mental health and talking about it.So one of the things that you had mentioned in our pre-interview was this idea of body positivity can you talk a bit more about.Yeah, I think every like teenage girl struggles with body image and I think that's pretty like fair to say, and I had never. Thought about it as something that I didn't have to struggle with. Like it, it was just part of growing up. Like everyone complains about their body. Everybody is going on a diet in eighth grade,everybody's like cutting calories, everybody's talking about it all the time. And that was just really normal to me. And then I took this time off. I was just by myself. I was holding with my parents. , it was quarantine so we couldn't like go anywhere. A lot of time to. I was like, why did, why is this what we're accepting?Like why are we just. Accepting that everybody has to feel bad about their body. Everybody has to like, dislike certain aspects of themselves.I was just thinking, and this is actually something we just posted in one of our reels, essentially that joke where you have two fish who are swimming around in the water and an older fish comes by and says, oh, well, how's the water treating you today?And they kind of keep swimming around and a little fish look at each other and go, wait, what's water? Right? They're so little, they don't even realize they're swimming in. And that is when you describe this idea of body positivity and where you think, oh my, the entire time I was growing up, I didn't even realize I was swimming in body toxic messaging.Right. It was just part of the world. I didn't even know I was in the water. And the part that I think about a lot when I'm working with people, And my office is how often the health culture gets confused with toxic body messaging and toxic eating messaging. So people will say things like, well, I need to eat clean. In our work that doesn't mean anything except I need to restrict my calories look a certain way. If I have any food that tastes good, I have somehow failed. Have you had that experience too, the confusion between healthy eating and restrictive eating?Yes. That line gets confused. I definitely relate to that. I think I've had like certainly personal experiences where that's, I've related to that. I've had pretty bad stomach issues as a kid, and so I had to go on like pretty restrictive diet. And that was, that was definitely hard. It's a hard like, mental game of like, yes, I'm doing this for my health, but this is also really stressful and hard to do at college.Like, it's very hard to cut out multiple food groups at college, like try to take care of your health, try to manage your symptoms, do stuff like that. So that was like really, really hard for me. And the lines were definitely blurring. So I, I relate to what you're saying and I think that's o oftentimes, The thing that people use to come back at like body positively, body neutrality is like, well what do you mean you don't want people to be healthy?You're like, well, you're just kind of letting people do whatever they want and like you should be, try to be promoting healthy eating. Like that kind of stuff is what people lo back at you when you say like, I think everyone should be able. Have a healthy relationship with their body. They're like, well, what do you mean you people need to eat salads and like eat healthy and eat three meals a day and ah, like all this crazy messaging.And that's, that's a hard thing. That's a hard balance to like, to draw. But I, I always say that it's not so much like, I think body positivity has a certain connotation in people's mind. I always usually say like, self-love to make it a little bit more. Easy for people to understand and not have this like weight behind it.But if you like, if you love yourself, you're gonna. Want to eat the way that's most health, most healthy for you at that time. Like if you are showing this love for yourself, that's, to me, that's like automatically the healthiest decision that you could be making for your body. Whether that's eating a cookie, whether that's eating a salad, like whatever you're craving, that is the healthiest decision in that moment.Like it's much more unhealthy to restrict, to be anxious, to be like, to be in your head about it than just eating whatever like unhealthy option is coming your way. So that's the way I always try to explain. I'm wondering how you still exist within a culture where a lot of people haven't been able to do that yet, whether that's friends or other people directly within your community and how you navigate that and social media.I mean, there's a lot of things you're exposed to that are probably in the opposite direction of the path that you're on. that I think is an every, definitely an everyday struggle of reassessing like refiguring out what's gonna. Um, but I think the biggest piece. Advice or like The biggest thing that helped for me was finding a community of people who did believe the same thing in me that did take care of their body, that were interested learning about it, that were open talking selfwas back interaction interactions at school. If something was challenging me that. I knew that I could go back to this group of people who would support me and would tell me what I need to hear, and that, that's really, really important to find. I think it's, it's so hard to go at it alone and to, like, you can have all the information, but if that support system isn't there, it could be so hard to be like the only one who is standing true in those values.Right. Kind of a good tether for you there. Yeah. I was just curious if you had any resources for people listening in who were thinking, you know what, I actually don't have my support group yet.I like what this girl is saying. What about social media to follow or not to follow, or certain blogs to read? Have you found that there's some that feel like they give you the right information? And alternatively, have you seen some things where you think, you know what, I don't think for me, I need to follow this particular Instagram account anymore?Yeah, I, I did kind like a social media cleanse a little bit, just cause I, I do, cause it can change depending on how I'm feeling. , but I think for people to follow, the body positive . They're like a nonprofit that, has a bunch of resources. Fall back on. And then for people not to follow, I think for, I was probably pretty personal.I think for each person it's gonna be really different. I'd also say though, don't, don't be afraid of even blocking or just like private. Or getting away from people that you know too. Like if there's someone that you personally know on Instagram, it can be even harder to like talk or unfollow them, but if it's causing you that much, much distress, I think that's totally fair.If someone's putting out things that are like against your values, against, it's making you like some sort of, have some sort of negative emotion or negative feeling like your energy. Piece comes first. Social media is for you. It's for you to feel good. It's for you to feel connected. And if it's not working for you, then totally un like even if you're, it's your closest friends, you can just like their account or block them and they won't even know about it.So don't, don't be afraid of that. I love it. You heard it here guys. It's working for Margaret .So Sarah, if you need to unfollow me later if it's not working for you. , you just had such a cute family picture of the apple picking and I was comparing it to my family picture of Apple picking and wondering if it was as cuteokay. Hi Summer. It's so nice to see you face to face.Yeah. Thank you so much for having me here,so as I said before, you are, you know, a podcaster through and through, but I don't think that's just what you do. I know you have a podcast called Eat the Rules, and that's something that we had a chance to listen to and really highly recommend to anyone out there who's listening to our podcast, especially if you wanna have a healthy relationship with your body, but you're also an author and a coach.Yes, yes. So I have been coaching people exclusively around body image and self-worth and confidence for about nine years now. Prior to that I, I worked as a nutritionist shortly for a while, and then I was also in the corporate world for about a decade. But and I wrote the book about eight years ago.It's called Body Image Remix, and it was really kind of my own personal journey and story and as well as blending in, like things that that helped me along the way that I advised to other people as, as well.It when people can share their personal story. Because . I can't imagine it feels good to have experts just sort of shaking their finger at you and saying, here's how you do it, without having some sense of where they've come from. So I appreciate that you share your journey and why you're here today to share a beautiful message of how to love and appreciate your body and all the things that come with that. So we know that the transition to college in particular is an interesting one, and it's a vulnerable period for a lot of reasons. One of those is because you're launched into this whole new universe.You need, you have your history and your family history and messages of sort of that world, , and then suddenly you're going into. A whole different place where you have access to all sorts of different messages and you have to figure out and find your footing in that world.So it's a time when we start to see an increase in eating disorders. And even if it's not something as clinical as an eating disorder, it's a time when we just see a lot of stress around food. And eating, and a lot of questions around how are you gonna build a quote unquote healthy lifestyle? What does that even mean?Body images? Jews, of course, can pop up. So we want to hear from you, and , for listeners who aren't so familiar with the body positivity movement, what's your elevator pitch?Yeah, I mean, it's really, body positivity was really a social justice movement to advocate for the equitable treatment of all bodies, you know, because, Depending on the size of your body, you are treated differently in, in society. , what body positivity aims to do really is to aim to really eradicate those, those systems. So seeing things like fat phobia. And racism and transphobia and things like that, so that all bodies are, are seen , as equal and treated with respect and equal access and so that's really like kind of the roots of it. And then , the way it sort of comes out in the mainstream is more messaging around like, you know, accepting and, and appreciating your body. I do think it's really important to come back to the roots of it because it that can be galvanizing.To know that this is really so much more than just about your own kind of individual personal journey. It's really about changing our culture so that we can all live better lives. I think there's so much to be said for how social justice is important when we talk about mental health, because of course, I'm sitting in a room with one person face-to-face on a couch or a chair, and they're sharing some concern with me about something like body image or maybe even something totally different.There are concerns about the environment, right? And so much of it is a place where you're like, okay, in order for this person to really, truly worry less, the world has to care more, systems have to care more. But that's, that's a sort a huge goal. And for today, we definitely wanna give some students really concrete ways that they can start to think about.Body positivity and messages that you think help in that particular way. So I'm gonna paint a picture for you. Okay. I want you to picture a dining hall on campus. . You walk in and there are a lot of options, a lot of food options, but also a lot of places to sit.Tables of students, some of them you know, some of them you don't know. , what are some of the pitfalls and messages that you can imagine coming up in that space?Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first and foremost, it's like how are other people gonna perceive me based on just me standing here? How are other people gonna perceive me based on the choices that I make? How am I gonna perceive myself based on the choices that I make? What should or shouldn't I eat? And that can be based on all different types of insecurities that we might have.And so I think that it can definitely be like a bit of like an anxiety promoting environment for someone who's really sort of struggling with like, yeah, what do other people think of me?Yeah. Right. Sort of feeling like, okay, judgment's going everywhere, judgment's inside happening left and right, and also what, what are people noticing and what are they trying to think about me? So what are some actionable steps you think that college students could make in a situation like that where they're starting to choose based more on how you might want them to choose a food, a place to sit?What kind of group to be with?Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I, I think that when it comes to food, it's almost like important to sort of, Get in touch with your body before you go into a space where you may start to feel an increased level of stress because. Could then sort of disconnect, what your body's messages are. So even thinking like before you step into the dining hall, like just kind of getting in touch with your body and thinking like, what do I, what do I feel like eating?Like, what do you know, what does my body need? And sort of almost like thinking about those things before you step in so that it's, there's less kind of pressure in a situation where you might be feeling more stress. And I think that in terms of the, the social aspect of it. understanding, what do you really want for yourself? If fitting in didn't matter, like if that didn't matter, what would you do? And letting that at least be your guidepost, social pressure is really real.But at least if we have awareness of it, we can start to then go in thatYeah, it's almost like you've got some, an anchor a little bit. You might stray from it. I always think sometimes of, you know, maybe it's cuz I recently, I got a Covid dog. And I always remember when we had him in as a puppy, sort of at a stake in the yard, and he would dart sort of all around, but we kind of knew that ultimately he'd be anchored by this one particular place so he wouldn't leave and sh run away.And sometimes I saw my thoughts or other people's thoughts being like that a little bit, you know, like can kind of go all over the place. Maybe they get distracted by this or pulled in by that. But ultimately if you have a place of safety or an anchor to come back to and to your point, What would I do if no one was looking, if no one had any thoughts around my particular actions or my particular body, that could be a great anchor for you to come back to.Even if you strayed or gotten distracted, it's gonna keep you from, you know, totally running off.Yeah,okay. So we know dining halls are common in college, but we also think about, you know, dart's, daytime parties for in case that needs to translating. Tailgates, formals. What are some other situations, and you said, I know the peer pressure is real.What can you imagine are common situations where suddenly we might be more prone to go away from that anchored position? What are common triggers for people?I, I mean, to social media, like, and that, and so not even being like at an in-person. Thing, but just the, the stuff that you're taking in on your phone, the stuff that you're seeing from other people that are of the same age or influencers and celebrities and things like that. , I think is a huge one. And as well as maybe like if you're in like a fitness facility or you're on a sports team or if you're in any other sort of like social dynamic where there's kind of like more body exposure or thing and focus on like what bodies look like.And I think even just like getting dressed to go out to some, some of those events, like I feel like that's a. Thing, right? Like that's a big deal. Like you put a lot of effort into that and a lot of that is kind of driven by like how other people are gonna perceive you. And and sort of like trying to be like, you know, perceived as like cool or having it together or whatever.And so I think that even just the process is like, can be just as much, just as stressful as actually like sometimes being at one of those.Yeah, the anticipation is worse than the actual event, right? There is this added pressure, I know for a lot of my college students just thinking about the photos they're gonna take, what is it gonna kind of look like,  is this outfit gonna look good on social media, so summer, are there some practical ways you can kind of give people to start to build a community, , around being able to openly talk about these issues? Yeah, I think that it's like, you know, it is so important to have community and so in-person is always great. If you can find it. And I find, I find sometimes, like looking at more like feminist oriented type groups are usually pretty welcoming to those discussions. So even if you can't find a group that's, you know, specifically, like around body image or body positivity, like, Looking at what types of more like social justice or feminist oriented groups might exist on campus or around campus. And I also think online communities can be just as helpful too if you don't have access to in person or or maybe you don't feel super comfortable with doing something in person.Yeah, there's a few times where you've mentioned. Social media and the places where that can be a trigger, but also a place where you can find a supportive community. Our brains haven't really evolved to manage social media. So it's so quick. It's so instantaneous, and I think it makes a lot of sense that we're still figuring out the highs and the lows of social media because this is pretty brand new.Maybe not to somebody who's in college, who's grown up. But as humans, we have not evolved to really manage that level of access that quickly. What are some of the safe social media practices that you work with people to do? Do you have them actively curate what, what do you use to help them with that aspect of it?Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's like a social media detox, right? One of the first things I always do when I'm working with people is have them delete anything, like unsubscribe, delete, anything that does not make them feel good.Change your settings so that you're not getting ads from, you know, like weight loss programs and things like, And even just take a break if you don't wanna completely unfollow someone, like hit mute for 30 days. And then conversely, like, we also wanna add stuff in. So the, the amazing thing about social media is that we can curate it so that it's showing us body diversity.It's showing us bodies that are larger than our own, that look, that are having fun, that are being confident, that are being sexy, that are being athletic. and that stuff is gonna be super important towards building up a new foundation of beliefs. And so I think that we can absolutely use it as like a tool too in our toolbox to really help and change the way that we perceive our own body.The research shows that if you spend time looking at.Bodies that are, you know, thinner that are promoting weight loss and things like that, you feel worse about yourself. And so, conversely, we can feel better about ourselves if we're spending time looking at bodies bigger than our own, looking at diversity. I love summer that, I think there's a lot of talk, with my patients about decreasing access to certain social media accounts, but not being mindful about increasing, if you are gonna use social media, how could you kind of curate and increase access to accounts that could modify some of these belief systems over time? It's good exposure. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And there's so many now, and like the hashtags, like if you look up fat, posi fat positive or fat positivity, I, I suggest using those instead of body positivity. Body positivity's sort of been co-opted quite a bit and you will see stuff that's still really promoting, you know, thinness and weight loss under that hashtag.And so using fat positivity is a really good gateway towards then finding someone. And if you can find like, you know, like a really good influencer, like say someone like Body posi pandas, someone with like 2 million followers or accounts great. Then look at like who she follows and then follow those people and like then you can sort of, then you'll sort of be led down that rabbit hole, and your feed will ultimately change.I rarely see stuff that like, I don't wanna see anymore because I've done such a great job curating it for myself. Yes, those algorithms can work for you. Okay. Right. So, Liz, you actually found the study where in 2020 eating and weight disorders found that approximately 62% of women and 54% of men reported having body image concerns. Or engaging in some sort of disordered eating, you know, excessive restricting of calories and so on and so forth.So we're talking a lot about women , but is this just a girl thing?No, no, and it's getting worse for. For men. Absolutely. If you look at the, you know, if you watch, even like, I'm just thinking, you know, like what shows young people watch, like euphoria or I'm even thinking you know, I was thinking like the latest season of the White Lotus. Like my husband's like, why are all the guys like so ripped now?Like that there's like a new standard for men too. And you look at I'm trying to think of like some of the actors' names, like, you know, like Chris Evans or like, I'm, I'm, the names are escaping me, but like the guys who play the superheroesAll. All theYeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's, there's like literally no fat on their body., and I think what happens is, is like you've got this other standard for men that is like very little body fat, very muscular. So you kind of got like this twofold pressure, right, of like, you, you don't only have to be thin, but you also have to be like very muscular. And I think what happens with that is, It's also celebrated for guys to like be really jacked in the gym and like lift heavy weights.And the way that they kind of engage in disordered behaviors is almost a lot more normalized in our culture. I mean, it's normalized for all, for all genders. Let's be honest here, like. Restricting food and things like that. But when, when you hear kind of like bros talk about it, like they're always talking about it in the way of like biohacking or like it's all about their health and performance.When the reality is, is that I think majority of that is still coming back to aesthetic. And this idea that they wanna look a certain way, but the it, they've been convinced that it's like, oh, no, no, no. This is like, this is for my performance, this is for my health. And I think that it gets pretty muddled up.And so there's probably a lot more men engaging in disordered behaviors that don't even really acknowledge it or realize it because it's been marketed as like a performance thing to do. It definitely affects every, every gender.So the guest that we interviewed, was talking about how through her work and therapy kind of expanded her idea of like what healthy eating is To obviously having a better relationship with food in the sense of like nourishing her body, but then also celebrating food, you know, having positive emotions and kind of reactions towards food.I'm going to eat that cookie, right, because it makes me feel happy. But even that statement, I think sometimes people will be like, wait, like am I reinforcing my behavior with food? Is that like a, you know, there's a lot of. Miss and questions about the role I think food has in our life, even when we're in a place, even for her, where she feels like I have a better relationship with food, so any thoughts about that? Like kind of common mistakes people make when they're trying to feel better in their body? And have a different relationship with food and weight and body size.Yeah. I think the first thing is like really thinking about like what health. You, you know, like having your own kind of personal definition of what health really means to you. And I would encourage people to consider really incorporating mental health into that picture. And we can look at food through that entire lens and, and see that like, Yeah, eating a cookie makes you feel good.Having it when you're socializing. That's great. Those are all healthy things, right? It's not just about like the actual nutrients in the food, although I could argue that cookies are gonna give you quick energy and like that's great too. And at the same time, you know, like if you were to just eat like greens and salads, like that's probably not healthy because you need a variety of different macronutrients and things like that.As well, it might not be the best for your digestive system. So we have to really blow up what the box that we've kind of been looking at health in and see it as like this much bigger, more holistic thing that incorporates our mental health, our emotional health, and. As well as our Ft Physical Health.Also, knowing that like a lot of our health is not necessarily in our control a lot of it's based on genetics or things like the social determinants of health. What we eat and how we move our bodies really only contributes to a small portion of that. And food can be for pleasure, simply for pleasure, like the, again, that's healthy.And so. We don't need to just look at it as like, okay, this one food has these nutrients, therefore it is healthy. Like, we gotta blow that all up and really look at the whole experience of, of it. And I think that when we can do that, it just becomes so much easier to give ourselves permission to eat the things that we want to eat and then tune into like, how, how does that actually feel in my body?Like, does that feel good? Does that feel satisfying? And then we can make choices based on those.You know, it's interesting the times where I have gotten. Maybe overly focused on what I'm putting in my body and how much, and so on and so forth. Suddenly, so many other aspects of my life become nerve-wracking going out to f eat with friends.Okay. Oh my gosh. Or they have on the menu. Or I'm just not gonna go out because I don't wanna have to deal with it, and I don't think I can control my, you know, control myself. So, on the one hand, yeah, maybe I'm technically eating a certain way for whatever reason. For good and for bad. And I'm narrowing these other parts of my life so, so much, and that doesn't feel healthy to me.And I've learned, I, I can't, it's just not worth it. , I wanna be able to go and just live a sort of, a much, a little bit more of a freer life than that. At the same time, when I was in college, I'll just be honest, I, I pretty much lived on like pizza delivery and. You know, and so , I don't think I consumed one vegetable, and if I did, it was in a lean cuisine., I still have probably the sodium in my body from that. That's another extreme. All right, so that, and that can be pretty common for lots of reasons in college. I don't think you're telling people not to care one bit about what they put in their body. So how do you find that balance?Yeah, , I spent my entire first year eating grilled cheese sandwiches and canned fruit, and then like cheesy bread from Domino's Pizza, so, and then Ram and Coke. So yeah, that was like my diet entire. Here as well. And I think for me, that actually came out of coming from like a really restrictive household where I real, my, my parents were really strict with, with what I ate.And so so that back, it backfires, right? Like, restriction is always gonna backfire. And so I think that like, It's about tuning into how things are actually making you feel, and also just recognizing that like, honestly in the grand scheme of life, like college is just gonna be a blip on the radar. And not to be too stressed about it, but to to tune in.Like, is this like, You know, is this making me feel really grumpy? Is this really giving me low energy? Is this making my stomach turn? Like, am I having digestive issues with this? And therefore instead of looking at like cutting that stuff out, think about what you can add instead. And I think that that's really key. Because you still wanna enjoy the foods you wanna enjoy, but like, what else can you add in instead? Like even like, can you add in an apple or can you add in, you know, like a, a vegetable here and there or you know, even like a smoothie or something that might have a bunch of stuff in it That's, Gonna just give you some of those extra, extra nutrients.But in all honesty, like we all made it to the other side, , and I think that like, it's gonna be okay. . So so I think that not to stress too much about it and really thinking about what you can add instead of what you can take away, because taking away the restrictive mindset always backfires a hundred percent of theAnd plus, you know, when we would drive. Hungover as hell in our pajamas to McDonald's for a bacon, egg, and cheese and a diet Coke. That was a really fond memory for me. I don't regret any of that one Bityeah, fountain, fountain, Coke at from McDonald's was like key on Saturday mornings or Saturday afternoons. More likely when we woke up.No, no, no.Yeah. I, I think that when we're talking about this, there's, it's helpful for college students to realize there's a lot of functions to eating and food that are not just nutrition? Some of the things we're talking about that they really promote wellness in other areas, right? Like, not being overly obsessive about what you're eating, going out with your friends to go get wings you know, Socializing and having, finding joy in food more often, and then also kind of radically accepting, I think.Sometimes you just don't have access. And this isn't just for college students. I think there's so much shame and judgment that they're not eating the right foods, but it's, it's the reality, right? You're doing the best you can with the resources that you have. And maybe there are some ways to problem solve more. Take the green apple that nobody wants to eat in the dining hall, cuz it's literally the only fruit option there. I talk to college students all the time and they're so frustrated with themselves and judging themselves, and I'm like, you have to understand the environment's also powerful too, in terms of what it's providing for you and, and being so hard on yourself about the choices you're making nutritionally it, it's not really a choice.It's really what's, what's there. Even though you're paying a lot of money to go to college, , and you wouldyou deserve some red apples and some green apples.I know.yeah, yeah. I mean f I mean, fresh food is like extraordinarily expensive right now. And I think like also comes back to social media too. Like make sure you're not following like a whole bunch of wellness influencers that are making you think you need to be eating these like asci bowls every day to feel better about yourself, cuz you don't.Well, that was our next topic, I think, about the wellness culture that.Okay.students. I, first of all, it's starting young. Like I have high schoolers that are on TikTok, following a lot of these Instagram people and I think it's hard for them to understand the difference between.Kind of emotional nutritional wellness and like really what the wellness, diet culture kind of is promoting. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about that, like what you've seen and, and some tips on how to avoid the infiltration of some of those messages.Yeah, , the trend has really shifted towards labeling diets as wellness, and it's all still kind of, you know, the same thing. We might be convincing ourselves that it's for our health or that it's wellness or that it's a lifestyle change, but, Ultimately, a lot of it's still in the pursuit of thinness.A lot of it still is making us feel shame about food if we don't eat a certain way. And that's dieting, so, you know, it's just under a different name now. And I think that we have control of what we can curate and look at and to unfollow the stuff that is making you feel like you should be eating a, a certain way or making you look at food and think this food is good and this food is.The way it's been structured is, is almost like a moral thing.It's like you're a better person if you eat this way. And that's just not true.Right, and this is, this is a whole nother topic and I think people interested in it should really listen to one of your recent episodes where you had a guest talk. The wellness industry, and it's an industry to create diets and people buy it. So therefore more people are gonna try to come up with something else to sell.So I think that's an important part of it. We won't go into that here, but certainly they can go to your podcast and listen more if they'd like to. But I think one of our last questions is gonna be around, once you've seen people. Who have embraced, and again, it doesn't mean that they never have a hard time with it or they don't struggle at times with insecurities or, or try to fall back into those messages.But for the people who really do embrace this the people who are engaging in things like intuitive eating  what have you seen in terms of their self?Yeah, I mean, I think it just like improves so much and they reclaim. Much more time and energy and money too, cuz a lot of people spend a ton of money trying to kind of you know, investing in like different supplements and products and, and super foods and things like that. So it's amazing. Really starting to know that your value is not in how you look, has a ripple effect to every area of your life. You're gonna be better at advocating for your needs, going after that promotion, putting yourself out there dating, like it can show up in all these different ways I think the biggest thing I hear from people is that it's just like this. Mental load off your shoulders. And it's not like a sense of like, oh my gosh, I love myself. I'm so amazing. Rather, it's more just a sense of peace.