Latest / Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin / Why is dating so difficult? #3

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Why is dating so difficult? #3 · Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: People who say they have an inch with something, what's
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: really going on with them?
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: It is my eche.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: I'm with you.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Dating today drives people crazy, but maybe that's because we've
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: been looking at it all wrong. Therapist Danny Lewin joins
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: us on the show and explains a concept that completely
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: blew our minds.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: It's almost the difference between like a startup versus like
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: a merger.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love that.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, that's incredible, such a great analogy. Everybody settles,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and that's not a bad thing.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I think we need to change the word to choice.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Everyone chooses a different set of problems, challenges, flaws. You
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: have to figure out which set of problems you're willing
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: to work with because there isn't going to be perfect.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: What's the system you could let go of right now?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Then it's this entire operating system that says everything needs
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to go perfect the way I wanted to because if
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: it doesn't, back things are going to happen. If bad
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: things happen, I can handle. And everything's at a ball apart.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: The world need is free therapy. I'm Ben and I'm Kevin.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Welcome to free therapy.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Do you think that people took the issue with potentially
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: with dating today and our generation which we're loneliness is
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: up and people aren't talking to people, they're not drinking.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It's like you name your fucking inserta bullshit here. Yeah.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's because we have seen so much
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: divorce and unhappiness and relationship in the masses now, because
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: like social media is out there and you're just seeing
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: got divorced affair you can insert whatever again. Do you
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: think people have seen that and have become like, Oh,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I thought it was something else. I don't even want
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: to do it anymore, or I don't even want to try,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: or I don't even know how to try, or it's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: not possible. Like do you think that's part of the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: problem with dating today, that we're seeing things that are
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: bad online or we're now being more aware to it,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and then people still, now that you're aware to it,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I don't want to do the work
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: for it. Or do you think that's what's kind of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: happening in to say's society.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: I think it could be. I also think there's sort
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: of like choice overload. Yeah, right, because of the advent
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: of social media and dating apps. I think it people
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: feel kind of replaceable or disposable.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something I've been thinking about. It applies to this,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: you know, because we are partnering later in life, we
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: have lived longer alone, and we've gotten better at meeting
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: all of our needs yes, and preferences.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So like you're thirty two, thirty three and you're like, oh,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: like I know where I like to eat, I know
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: or I like to work out, and the meals I
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: like to make. I know I can get everything exactly
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the way that I want it. And then you meet
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: someone and you're engaging and getting into a partnership with
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: them and they have they're completely different yeah, but as
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: specific preferences and needs and desires. And then you're like, well,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: our lives don't match up and we're not compatible, But like,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: how do you navigate that? When originally maybe you would
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: have met the mid twenty four to twenty five, when
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you're like just out of your parents right college, and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, wow, what do I like? And then
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you're like someone else, what do I? And then you
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: figure out together.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: It's almost the difference between like a startup versus like
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: a merger.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, right, I like that in.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: The startup, great analogy.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: In the startup, you're kind of like, we don't know
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: what we're doing. We're in it together, we're going to
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: figure this out, right, and it's kind of like messy
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: and expected to be so. And then in a merger
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: when you have two established companies, like you have systems,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: you have strategies, and you have to figure out like, oh,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: how do we bring these together?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great analogy. So well, I'm just like, okay,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: so this is all about expectations because your expectation, My
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: expectation is that like it's going to be someone joining
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: my startup or the company. That's my expectation. Yeah, is
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I've been building a company. I had a startup and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: it's grown, it's a successful company, and then someone's going
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: to join my company. Yeah, and that's the fucking problem
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: because it's not someone joining my company, it's.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: A merger's mergers.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's so interesting. I think that is a real thing.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people think about unconsciously. I
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: don't think something else. I mean maybe most we would.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: They think about it as someone joining their company, like
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: right on both sides.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And I think to add to the analogies, like no,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I think you have to actually decide what things you're
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: going to like what departments you're going to close within
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: your company. Yes, this company that's there, they're better.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: At it and knowing that, Like when there's a merger
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: of these two things that have been operating pretty successfully
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: independent on one another, the outcome could be even better
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: than those two things alone. Right, But like you said,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: it requires figuring out, oh, what adjustments are going to
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: be made. And so I think you know when people
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: talk about like finding the right person, this comes up
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: in sessions all the time. I think it's really important
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: for people to get clear on what are their true
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: non negotiables. And that can't be a list of twenty
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: five bullet points.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: How does someone actually even learn, Like how do you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: learn what you're not like your three or five non
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: negotiables are in relationship? Like it's like very hard to
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: find the couple that you won't part with because if
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you really pick those yeah, and they don't and that
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: person isn't going to meet them, and you're like, okay,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I'm out, then it's not starting non negotiable. Yeah, but
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: like are maybe I don't have any? Maybe I have
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: zero zero, well, or maybe I have five, maybe I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: have twenty. How do you know what's zero? Yeah?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I was going to go zero, and then I don't.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Know why you don't even like, maybe you'd let them
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: go for the right person, all of.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Them, if they're truly a non negotiable. So I'm saying,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: so I'll give you an example, Right, if like one
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: of your non negotiables. And I don't know if this
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: is true for you, but if you really want to
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: have a family and then you date someone and you
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: really like her and she's like, I don't want children. Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: people sometimes do this, But I think if you make
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: the decision to forego that goal of having a family
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: for the relationship, it has the potential of creating immense resentment. Yeah,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: because you've sacrificed something that is so important to you.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Right, What are some of your non negotiables?
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Family is one of mine?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah? For sure too? Yeah, I think all of us?
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, So think about sacrificing that, Like, is
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: that something you would truly compromise on?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: A non negotiable family? One?
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: So there's one one?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, do you have another one?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah? It's her energy like that, a warmth and a
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: loving way of engaging with life and other people. Yeah,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: that's definitely a big important one for me.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Mine is raising my kids Jewish.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Okay, I was going to say religion is another. Yeah,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: it's pretty common, non negotiable for me.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my kids are Jewish. And it's crazy because it
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: was fifteen million Jews, so you're just like getting rid
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of fucking ninety eight percent of the world, but like.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: A smaller yeah, part of my life.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I have to raise my kids.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Jewish well and so on that would you date someone
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: who is not Jewish but who is on board with
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: raising your children Jewish totally?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, I've become Yeah, totally, as long as my
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: kids just understand where my grandparents came from.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But I think that a challenge can be when
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: people go on dates with like a thirty point checklist, right,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: and I think not only can that really narrow your pool,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: but I think sometimes people favor the checklist over the
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: felt sense of the person. And what I mean by
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that is I'll have clients come in and say, oh,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: he's really rich, and he has this great job, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: he's six' three and he has a great relationship with his,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: family and you, know fill in the. Blank how did
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: you feel on the? DATE i felt really anxious and
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: he was kind of an asshole to the.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Waitress, okay, Okay i'll have more questions about how do
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: they make your nervous system?
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Feel, yes that's the most. Important it changed HOW i?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Date?
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah how did you? Feel?
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah don't you think the feelings though over time, change?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Right like what if you're just an anxious person who
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: has stuff showing up on a date so you're, uncomfortable
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and then you're, like, oh it's, that but actually maybe it's.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: You, WELL i think you would know if that was your, baseline,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: right the things out.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Of his raiseline and you became even more anxious than
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: you typically. Are maybe that's not a good. Sign and
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: if you became a little less, anxious maybe that'd be
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: a good.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Sign, right, yeah or, YEAH i mean if you're, anxious
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: but then the person also waits three weeks before calling
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: you back and is really, Inconsistent, right that's going to
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: make you feel unsafe in that. CONNECTION i think this
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: comes up a lot with like the.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Ick what's that the?
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: ICK i hate people talk about the ick so.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: Much i'm with.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: You there's a.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Little thing you're gonna not be with.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Someone that there are all the, time but there are
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: big things.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: THAT i, think, Okay but then if it's a big,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: thing then it's not an.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Eck exactly what you.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Mean if it's a big, thing it's a it's a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: it's a problem in the in THE i think.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: We need to have a different term for a big.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Thing like if someone doesn't say please and thank, you.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Okay that could be that feels like maybe a values.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Thing it's a problem because it is indicative of who
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: they are as a, person and that's really your, problem
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: not the fact that they're not doing that one.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Thing, Right, like if someone's not respectful to other, people
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: maybe that's not negotiable for, me, Right like that would
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: be that would be kind of a deal. Breaker but
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Like i'll hear women, say, oh it's a great, date
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: BUT i hated, shoes And i'm, Like i'm, like we
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: can we can work on. That buy we can buy new.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Shoes and people who say they have an ache with,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: something what's really going on with? Them?
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Oh what is really going? On that was my? Question
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like what is going on with somebody who just can
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: find inch?
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: ANYWHERE i think that's maybe someone who's uncomfortable with. Intimacy. Yeah,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: yeah and they're finding a reason to keep people at a. Distance.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah and, again like IT'S i think like avoidance gets
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: like such a there's such a negative connotation and so
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: much judgment around. That BUT i think like with all
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: of these ways of relating and attachment, styles we have
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: to practice, compassion, Right like this is these are all
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: like safety, seeking self protective. Strategies it's you, know it's
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Often i'm trying to reduce intimacy because intimacy hasn't been
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: safe for.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Me, Yeah AND i, think, WELL i think the early
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: on in a, relationship why maybe avoidant. TENDENCIES i think
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: there's just like back to like maybe maybe this is
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: going to come off you or. Whatever but like guys
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: naturally a lot of the time are less committal early
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: on THAN i think girls. Are it's a general, statement
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: BUT i just think like it's fair AND i think,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: that like it's normal for someone who's been single for
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: a long time or who has been told by a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: lot of people that you're a catch that you should
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: go find the perfect person doesn't, exist but you are
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: telling yourself that so early on in a, relationship you're just, like,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Nah i'm gonna, wait something better comes. Along the choice
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: thing you spoke, about SO i think it we label
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: it as like, avoidant BUT i think it's also just
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: LIKE i think THAT i don't know if it's always
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that it could just be like part of this.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: You're trying to like optimize for the perfect. Partner yeah,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah AND i think that like the single thing comes
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: back to this idea of like startup versus. Merger over
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: those eight years that you have been, single you have
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: hopefully been really pouring into your.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Company yeah oh, yeah when my company is so. Successful yeah,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: right but what a? Success yeah it doesn't.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Matter, yeah but nobody yeah yeah yeah. Yeah and you
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: have systems and you.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Have systems yeah, yeah and you might have to be.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Systems BUT i think those, systems like if we're talking about,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: ourselves it really is. Good but if we talk if
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: we like into the analogy where we talk about the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: systems that you've built while you're single to quote unquote
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: make your life, better not all those systems are actually
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: good for. You you just they're just like they're actually
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: just meant to maybe protect yourself more from things that
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: aren't good for, you or you just started doing these
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: things because you thought you needed to because you didn't
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: want to deal with, that so you did that. Instead
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and then a relationship comes in and makes you actually
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: evaluate that system and you thought it was so good for,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: you but then you're, like oh, shit that system sounds
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: way better to let go of your. Own and that's like.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Vulnerable you have to trust that person's system is going
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to take care of. You and it's, like well that's,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: intimate so, yeah and so someone to run. Away BUT
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: i think it's just like. NORMAL i just want to
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: like normalize all that. Shit it's very, uncomfortable BUT i, think,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: like what.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It's the system you could let go of right?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Now great?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Question, yeah great. Question exp asking like a planning and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: a control system and not letting them and not like
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: yeah that's for sure it yeah it really just do
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: yeah perfect Good yeah, no but like planning and, CONTROL
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: i need to control everything so it works out perfect
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: instead of just letting things go and being more okay
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: with a change of plans and things not going the.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: WAY i, thought like such a little, example but like
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: on our, WAY i wanted to go to a workout
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: class and then maybe we got there and we like
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: they didn't let us in because one was the waitlist and.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Bullshit AND i was so upset that we didn't get
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: into the, workout and she's just, like, cool let's like
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: look for another. Workout that's. Easy it's just a. Workout,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: no but it's. Whatever there's like there's so many, workouts
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: like just the. Workout it's, like, oh, yeah it's just the.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Workout what happens if you don't do that, workout you
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: do a different. One but the pressure to make sure
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that goes well before it happens is a system that
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: is way bigger than just making the class on. Time
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's this entire operating system that says everything needs to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: go perfect the WAY i wanted to because if it,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't bad things are going to. Happen if bad things,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: HAPPEN i can, handle and everything's going to fall. Apart
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and that is that is the system that should be
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: broken because its. Rigidity, yeah and so for, me it's
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: LIKE i became rigid because control protected me from times
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: WHEN i things were out of. Control but that system
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: no longer works for. ME i am confident that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: It doesn't, beautiful but it's.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Still so easy to fall into that operating system that
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: it's just like helped you for so many, years but
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: now when you bring someone else into, it you have to, like,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: oh like woof that IS i haven't operated like that
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: in a long. Time, yeah want to do. It oh
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: it's only. Okay it's, like is it gonna be? Okay you're, like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: yeah it always is, okay you just keep doing. It
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: but that's a. System, yeah, yeah.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: TOTALLY i love how you just worked through.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: That thank.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: You AND i think coming back to this idea of
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: like relationships being good versus, CHALLENGING i think that's a
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: beautiful example of how the partner held up a.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Mirror if you look at the merger, concept actually that
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: maybe that analogy relates to this because it's like you're
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: not going to find someone who's been building the same
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: exact business as you with the same.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: Systems that's, right it's.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Going to be a. Merger and so in the same,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: way like IF i envision having this like even bigger,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: company right analogy, relationship even bigger company that's even more
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: successful in all, This like, there it's it's not just
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: going to exist. Immediately the merger's not going to, happen
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: and there's not going to be like this seamless just.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Explosion that's. Right, no there's gonna be an integration, period
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: there's gonna be a learning, period there's gonna be a growth,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: beard there's going to be a maybe some layoffs of. Systems,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: yeah and then it's going to, eventually.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: You, know become something even. Greater. YEAH i think that's.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Right AND i just want to come back to something
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: that you. Said it's not going to be the same,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: company AND i think that's. Important, like you're not looking for, yourself,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: right you're looking for your. Compliment.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah do you think that when you? Date, okay so
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you date someone and that relationship doesn't work, out and you're, like,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: cool those two businesses that merger was. Unsuccessful, sure someone
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't willing to lay off whatever that business that merger didn't.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Work then you take a step back and you're, like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: why didn't that merger? Work, WELL i realized that my
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: system for this is the WAY i need to, operate
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: and the way that person operated that system wasn't going
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to work for. Me so then you're, like, oh BUT
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: i really like that system that they, built AND i
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: my system for that wasn't that. Great so now either
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: take that OR i have to go find and so
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you're kind of like doing this trade off and you're
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: deciding in that relationship that something wasn't working and that
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of it maybe, was and that you go
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to your next relationship and you're, like, Hmm i'm gonna
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: make sure THAT i find someone that has it, better
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: but they have something in their business that you don't
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like and the other person that's something that you really did.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Like and you're, like, wait so is every merger going
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to be like? This is every merger going to Be.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: The answer is, yes, right exactly.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Exactly so if every merger is like, that, yeah how
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: do you decide which systems you need to keep and
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: which systems you can let?
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: GO i think you have to figure out which set
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: of problems you're willing to work, With, yeah because those
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: going to be. Perfect AND i.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Just think that's the, Thing like that has to be
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: such a big takeaway for. Me i'm not like i'n't
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: dated a million. People i've had a couple of, relationships
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: and it's like there's always going to be, Problems, yeah
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and you have to decide which ones are you okay?
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: With.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah maybe that comes down in no, negotiables but what is?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: OKAY i guess my question is, like what how do
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you evaluate? That for people out? THERE i, know LIKE
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: i know everyone has how do you evaluate?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: That, well there's this, saying, uh when you're thinking about
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: your career and your job that it's, like, uh the
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: question you should really be asking yourself is not what
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: do you love to? Do but what shit are you
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: willing to? Eat M, yeah like every job has? Shit,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: yes every single. Job.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: YEAH i ordered a sandwich for someone. EARLIER i was,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: like having around fifteen, Years i'm so fuckings order your own.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Sandwich so it's, like what should are? You?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Like what are you willing to?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Eat?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No and IT'S i think it's similar in a. Relationship,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah like it's not romantic to talk about it like, that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: BUT i think, too like we're talking, about, well every
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: relationship is going to have, problems and what problems AM
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: i willing to? ACCEPT i think sometimes we forget like
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: we're coming with our own set of problems and, shit
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: AND i think we all are hoping that we find
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: a partner who is willing to accept us, Anyway AND.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I guess that has to be part of the. Equation,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: yes if someone is willing to eat your shit for
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: lack of better. Things that's got to be. Attractive it's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: got to be attractive if you have some stuff and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: that person's, like, OKAY i love, YOU i love you.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Anyways about WHAT i think people don't do is realize
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that you would never want to eat, that and then
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: it's like the fact that they are is. Amazing and
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: so that has to come into the equation of maybe
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: operating in a system that you don't like to operate.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: IN i, remember like a lot of my a lot
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: of people in like pop psych never, settle don't, settle
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: go for the one of your, dreams all that. Bullshit,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah and then a couple a year, AGO i was
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: like six months, ago was talking to someone not, you
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: you talking to someone, else, therapist, whatever friend of. Mine he,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Goes THEN i gotta break it to. You and this
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: is like WHILE i was, single BECAUSE i was just
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: trying to fucking. Date he. Goes everybody. Settles everybody, settles
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and that's not a bad thing that you are going
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to have to decide to decide which things you are
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: okay with and that which things you're. Not and that
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: still means that you don't love the person any, less
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: you just are settling in those.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: AREAS i think we need to change the word to. Choice.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Choice i'm, Choosing.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not settling. More that's more. Empowering it's more.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Empowering i'm not.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Settling i'm. Choosing.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Nice, Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I'm choosing this. Person i'm choosing who they.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Are everyone chooses a different set of, problems, challenges.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Flaws, yeah that's, nice that's. Nice it's so. FUNNY i
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: used to think THAT i had to just get, better
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: THAT i had to like go to therapy to get.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Better and THEN i was, like, wow therapy is not
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: working right because that doesn't.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Work what is getting better?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Means, well the old definition was fixing everything and not
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: making the same.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Mistake and, yeah but hold, On i'm going to like
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: slow you down for a. SECOND i feel.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Like the time let me slow you down for a.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Second i'm gonna start using.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: THAT i feel like in, That, yeah there's a belief
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: that you are something to be.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Fixed, yeah, yes there is a belief in.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: That BUT i think a lot of us have that, though.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Right, no because When i'm speaking right, now FOR i
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: think the masses that think there is something wrong with
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: me there is A i have a bad characteristic OR
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: i have a trait that isn't, redeemable AND i have
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: to go work on that and make it better and fix.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: It BUT i think it's actually what you just, said
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: which is like bringing the problem into awareness when you're in,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: it and that's getting. Better like last like for me
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: it was like just recognizing what was happening and not being, like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: oh don't ever make that mistake again Because i'm going
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: to keep making.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Mistakes, yeah so like, shift just being able to put
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: a little bit of space before the action.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Totally, YEAH i think you've grown on that a. LOT i.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Have you've you've stopped trying to, fix you, know and
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you're you're more accepting who you are for.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Sure well maybe that is the like the, fix, right
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: is like being able to practice more self, compassion working
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: on the relationship with. Self.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah what do you think are the most like attractive
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: qualities in a man from a woman's?
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: Respective well that was, sharp but, No i'll tell you.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Where, NO i don't think. SO i don't think. So
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: i'm thinking that like from an emotional. Perspective, okay what
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: are the most emotionally attractive qualities in, like do women
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: want someone who is able to really dissect all this
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: or care about that and how important it is that in
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the grand scheme of.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Things, SURE i think it depends on the. Women this
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: is like a very sort of like polarized, question, Right
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: like embedded in your question is an assumption that men
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: and women are like totally, different, right something to think.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: ABOUT i don't. Know So i'm someone who's obviously very
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: curious about my inner world and curious about the inner
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: world of other, people hence WHY i became a, Therapist,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Right SO i really want a partner who is curious
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: about my inner world and also curious about his own inner.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: WORLD i think that's really. IMPORTANT i think the ability
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: to self reflect is really. Important AND i, think you,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: know to answer your, question is What ben's talking about
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: something that women? WANT i think it, Is AND i
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: think it's something that a lot of men maybe don't
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: consider as an attractive quality self.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Awareness, yeah because there is some there is some shame
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: in the vulnerability THAT i think does show up for.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Men, yeah and THAT i also do With. Yeah, YEAH
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: i MEAN i think that probably has to do with your.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: CONDITIONING i, mean, yeah you two would be the expert
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: on this more THAN i, am because you have the lived.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: EXPERIENCE i wonder what stories you were told, about you,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: know talking about your feelings.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Or does Examples, yeah, yeah, YEAH i think it's less.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: TALK i think talking about my feelings was one thing
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that maybe like you got better at OR i was
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: given space for. It there wasn't ever a thing with.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: That but it was more about the type of men
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: THAT i saw in. SOCIETY i didn't really feel LIKE
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: i saw a lot of guys like me or HOW i.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Felt ever until maybe like five years, ago When Andrew
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: garfield started talking publicly or Like harry's styles like. Whatever
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: these guys came onto the scene that were like challenging
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the status, quo and you're, like, oh that's. Cool BUT
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: i think that's part of the problem is that you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: don't think it's cool until you get validated in, It
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and you can't really get validated in it until someone
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: older kind of shows you the. Way, yeah AND i don't, think,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: LIKE i, mean did you see did you see any guys.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: That definitely not growing? Up you didn't see any examples
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: of like that kind of openness and. Vulnerability, yeah now you.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: SEE i think a lot more and it's really. INTERESTING
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: i MEAN i get excited every TIME i see it
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Because i'm, like oh, cool or it's even just another
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: way of a possible way to even expand my own
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: curiosity or. Vulnerability LIKE i find it fascinating WHEN i
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: see content, around like how a guy can, be you,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: know still a strong masculine, man but also vulnerable and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: open BECAUSE i think there's all these different ways of showing. Up,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: yeah do you think it's challenging to balance that, vulnerability,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: curiosity openness with maybe the the qualities of a man
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: that are more typically.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Attractive To, well you tell me what is it like
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: to balance? That?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: YEAH i think it. Is.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah and, wait let's like zoom in on you, said
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: like the typical, Qualities like what does that look?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Like? Yeah maybe like the more like, provider, caretaker protector
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: qualities of a. Man there's a word that we use
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: all the. Time. Uh it's the word is a. Rav
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: it's A farsi word person Word I'm, persian and it
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: means strong and it's like but it's not just like physical.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Strength it's like emotional strength and, Fortitude like how you're
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: showing up for somebody so like you are rav with
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: somebody and for somebody like it's a it's the way
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: you're showing up rather than a physical or any kind
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: of that kind of, strength and so h it's it's
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a it's something THAT i it's become like a mantra
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: in a way in relationship in, dating because it's not
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: like blunt, force, right it's like a foundational, strength you,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: know in the Way i'm showing. Up and then MAYBE
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: i can incorporate some bold ability or curiosity obse, curiosity
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: but vulnerability into.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That AND i think the biggest thing here, is LIKE
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: i always, say, this ord also means like strength and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: knowing to admit when you're, wrong, right totally, Right like
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: a strong man will admit when he's. Wrong.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Well AND i think that comes back to accountability without,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: collapse yeah, right without sort of like just falling into,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: shame being able to own behavior and take accountability for.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: IT i think that's one thing that a lot of
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: women want and look for for.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Sure yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: The accountability of how they're showing up and when they've.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: Slept m, yeah yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: YEAH i THINK i was talking to A fred and
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: she was, like and they that she likes when guys
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: are accountable for their. Actions but then a guy takes
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: that to the extreme and blames all of his mishaps
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: on one thing that happened in his, past and that
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: being like the reason he fucking forgot ABOUT x the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: date or he forgot about the. Whatever it's, like, oh
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: because WHEN i was a. Kid and then it's, actually
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that's complete opposite of what we're talking, about.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Right, well that's, context which might be, important, Right AND
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: i think like the both AND i say this both
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: and thing a. LOT i think it's really, important, Right
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: BUT i think the both and is, like, yeah that context,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: matters AND i can have compassion and understanding for that
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: thing that happened when you were seven years old and
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: still hold you accountable for your choices and actions as an.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Adult yeah, Right and.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: A guy couldn't do, that you're, saying so a guy could, say,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: like this, happened AND i still want to take responsibility
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: for HOW i could have shown up and how maybe
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you needed me to show.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: UP i think we can all do, that, Yes AND
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: i think it's really important BECAUSE i think understanding each
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: other's context softens us a little. Bit yeah, right it
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: lends itself to greater compassion and, understanding which we all
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: need more of. Too. Totally, YEAH i think you made
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: an important distinction earlier around strength strength being it's different
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: when it's strength via force versus strength that, IS i don't, know,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: grounded what's the.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: DIFFERENCE i know the difference for. Me i'm curious what the.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Difference i'm curious the difference for you.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Free to, everybody, Guys i'm curious what that feels.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah just.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Everybody how does that feel like for? You?
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Well BUT i feel, like you, KNOW i can tell
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: you based on my, observation BUT i don't have like
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: the lived experience of the felt sense of sure being a.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Man So i'll answer, you And i'll go back to
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: you BECAUSE i THINK i get what you're. Saying where
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you want the lived experience of a, man AND i
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: am curious what the perspective is from the person that's receiving.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: That, okay tell, me So i'll.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Answer for me. First there is one definitely less uh
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: force or trying to control the. Situation you're actually going
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: back to. UNCERTAINTY i feel like you're REALLY i am
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: having to When i'm in that situation let go of
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: control uncertainty because the tendency is to try and get something,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: done to try and make something, happen to try and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: make someone understand that what you're doing is the right
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: thing because your intentions are, Right LIKE i got. IT
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: i feel Like i've gotten to this in the past
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: and relationships where it's, like, WELL i KNOW i wanted
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: to do this for you because it would make you,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: happy or my intention was to Make it's like the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: intention doesn't, Matter and so maybe the difference for me
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and HOW i experience it is like a little less
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: control and certainty and a little more vulnerability and, Openness
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: like it's sort of putting yourself out on the chopping,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: block a little bit of going, like, HEY i could
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: have shown up here. DIFFERENTLY i wanted to show up
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: in a way that would make you happy and feel
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: cared for and, loved AND i, didn't AND i WISH
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: i could have done. Better maybe how COULD i have
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: done it?
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: Better, beautiful it's a great.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Guy that's.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: Different, yeah that is at my, best that's All i'm showing.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Up that's good that as.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: You have to have the the north star absolutely so
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: then you, know but, yeah that is how it would
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: maybe feel different for, me which Is the thing why
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: it's scary and maybe WHY i didn't do it for
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: so long is because that kind of vulnerability would be.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: Terrifying it's a little. Exposing you're, exposing you're you're calling
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: out your.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Faults you're calling out the areas where you may have
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: fucked up and whereas your responsibility and your fault and
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: that doesn't feel.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Good but you know, WHAT i think that is strength
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: because it takes a certain level of like self assuredness
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: to be able to SAY i fucked up And i'm
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: going to own that BECAUSE i can stay intact and
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: own this thing THAT i did.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Right, well, okay so how does it feel different for
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: someone receiving. That what's the difference in feeling between like
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: maybe the the the force kind of, strength, yeah and the, open,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: foundational grounded strength that you. Receive.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: YEAH i think the difference is really emotional, presence, right
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: because that like force thing feels like performance and outcome,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: driven and when you're focused on, that you're not here with.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Me does that make? Sense it?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Does outcome driven is super. Interesting so can you explain
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: that the outcome driven in the sense where you actually
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: feel like the person's trying to get an outcome versus.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: YEAH i need to fix. THIS i need her to be.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: HAPPY i need the conflict to be. OVER i need
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: to feel, okay right versus, yeah, yeah it's all of.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Us it's all of.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Us. Yeah so you feel the difference between, That so
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: someone is being more Out i'm. DRIVEN i need to feel.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: OKAY i need her to feel. OKAY i need her
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: to be. HAPPY i need her to like.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: ME i need this conflict to be. Over i'm uncomfortable versus,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Like i'm gonna sit here with you in.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: The muck of.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: This it's just hard to do that because it's so.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Hard its, one it takes like this raw part of, you,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: yes and then you're kind of demanding it of the
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: person over there to watch you in that raw.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Space for, me a lot of the, times it feels
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: like the goal THAT i used to have was for
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: things to be good in the, relationship and that was, yeah, yeah,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: yeah the worst game planet for.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: You, no it never, worked.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, no, conflict things were, Good.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Like where'd you learn that from?
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Me?
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Too like that was the. GOAL i was, like how
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: CAN i make sure everything's all?
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Well hold, on let's pause on, that because you, KNOW
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: i think sometimes people approach relationships this, way not, always
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: but sometimes because conflict at home was scary or not,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: tolerated and so we don't, Learn OH i can have
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: conflict or disagreement and still stay. Connected.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: YEAH i never knew that was.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Possible, yeah it's kind of mind.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Blowing what does that? EVEN i want to know what
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: that looks like in? Practice what do you.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Want to, say, yeah talk about the good?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Thing well, NO i was going to, say, yeah to your,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: POINT i never had examples of conflict that will result growing,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: up like it was conflict and then avoidance and then
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about it until it just
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: disappears or it gets.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: Suppressed, really CAN i ask a question about?
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: That? Yeah, okay how did it? Feel? Like what was
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: the felt sense in the hom with all of this unresolved.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Conflict, yeah like in the couple of days, after it
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: was always like, attention a little bit of tiptoeing because
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: you didn't want to trigger. Anybody, yeah and then it
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: would settle in and we would forget about, it you,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: know and everything would be. Okay it was interesting because
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: it was a lot of just the cycle was suppression
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: and then explosion and then avoidance of any repair and
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: then forget about it and then suppression and that was,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: like you, know a month or two month. Cycle so
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it wasn't that was like constantly. Fighting actually it was
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Very there'd be a fight once every two, months right and.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Then so it didn't feel like if you if you
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: were to asked, me like fifteen years, Ago i'd be, like, no,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: like we. Don't they don't fight that. Often there'sn't that
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: much fighting in the. House but then AS i got,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: OLDER i was, like, oh but THEY i, MEAN i
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: learned this BECAUSE i started to look at my relationships
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and you, KNOW i would when a relationship would end
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: and they'd be, like why are you just bringing all
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: this up right? Now And i'm, like what do you?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Mean and THEN i realized THAT i just never would
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: communicate any PROBLEMS i had in the relationship till the
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: very end WHEN i ended. It AND i feel bad,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: now but it was my process of THAT i had
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: to go, through LIKE i was too scared to share,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: anything and then it would so it's suppressed it all
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: and then it would bubble up and then it would
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: just explode And i'd be like and they'd be, like
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: where the fuck did all this, come do you even
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: want to be with? ME i was, LIKE i don't, Know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: NO i. DON'T i guess, not, yeah which is a
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Pretty so that was my process of like learning. That
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and so through all that time it was, like, oh
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: things should be, good And i've gotten much better at
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: addressing the conflict or being comfortable in the conflict and
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: moving through it and like addressing. Things and AND i
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: still feel like the echoes of that Where i'm, LIKE
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: i don't want to the outcome, is, oh like let
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: me let me smooth things, over versus the outcome that
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: you're talking, about which really feels good ultimately for both, Sides,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: yeah is let's like go in this together and get
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: in the.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Mud.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: YEA i think you said let's get in the mud
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: and be like how can we be? Open m Hm.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah our relationships actually supposed to feel good all the.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: TIME i think that we were told they were supposed to.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Seven seven year Old ben just.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: No but it's everyone is so just like in their
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: own world about what they think these things. Are like,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: STILL i think this is why like everyone is like
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: single or doesn't want to date because like it's hard
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and LIKE i don't want to do.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: It, yeah well.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: It's like it Wasn't it's not supposed to be. Easy.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah you're saying we romanticize too much for.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah and then we just like we just mimic
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: whatever our parents did and we're like that's. LOVE i
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: was like every like and and mine was like opposite of,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Yours SO i like mine would like would they would
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: argue and then they would just intense. MAKEUP i was,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: like oh, cool that's how it supposed to. Be and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: THEN i was, like oh, Cool i'll just do the same.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Thing.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah so my first, girlfriend it's all of us fucking
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: eight years or six years or five years of just, love, love, love,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: argue intense, makeup love, love love, argue intense, makeup.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: High, highs and love.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Loss. YEAH i was, like, oh and then every GIRL
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: i chased after that was the same. Way.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah that cycle is kind of, addictive, though the, best,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: right oh my, god the?
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Makeup who the fuck is by the, way anyone in
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: a relationship wants that? Makeup it's the fucking. Best.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah but THAT i, mean that's like a nervous system.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Response make up the like my, reaction like, yeah that
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: like those ups and, Downs like that's a nervous system,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: response and so when you've been in that for like eight,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: years like sometimes we have to kind of recalibrate to, like, ooh,
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: actually like a, healthy functional adult relationship is not gonna
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: have those.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Swings, yeah but you know WHAT i say to, THAT
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: i say those relationships are.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Boring, Yeah you're LIKE i just want to blow shit
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: up kind of, yeah OR.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I want someone to blow sit up OR i want
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to like. Yeah but Then i'm, like, oh that's not,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Normal And i'm, like, oh so what is it supposed to?
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Be and then when you're in, it you're like, like
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: this is. NORMAL i Don't and THEN i would ask, people, oh,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: yeah we experienced that. Too oh so everyone experiences normal
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: but doesn't doesn't talk about the. Normal like EVERYONE i
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: ask people my friends who are, Married, bro this is
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: so fucking, hard, yeah. Dude and Then i'm, like so
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: you do? It, yeah, yeah do? It but, like, dude
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: it's And i'm, like so it's like.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: It's well they say it's the best thing, ever.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah and the worst, thing the best thing and the hardest.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Thing, yeah BUT i don't think we really like to
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: talk about.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That, well so do people need to get this idea
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: out of their head that relationships are that you're in
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: the relationship feel. Good, yeah and what do you replace that? With,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: yeah it sounds like that's the wrong way to think about.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: It, AGAIN i think it's a both and. Right, LIKE
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: i think there are parts of relationships that absolutely should
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: feel good and connected and delicious and safe and. Warm.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: RIGHT i like the word delicious for a. Relationship it
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: is sounds like.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: It's so it is.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Delicious BUT i think good relationships are also, challenging and
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: that there's opportunity for growth for the individuals and for
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: the relationship in those moments of. Friction.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: YEAH i really thought that relationships should be comforting and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: good and the easy and add to your life and
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: all of these things THAT i think are. True but
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: a relationshiship also be growth and discomfort and. Challenging AND
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: i think me wanting black and white only wants they're
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: really hard to make up or they're really, good and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: then it's like, no it's actually like all of it in.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Between and so when all of the things happen in,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: BETWEEN i it's hard to evaluate the if it's right
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: because you've never really had anything like that knowing really
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: modeled anything like. That so then you're just like doing.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: It you're like a new. Frontier you're like a guy on.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Land you're like taking over this new, land and you're
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: like just the right. Way you're like you're in. Charge
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: you're like you're, like, no you're the. Guy And i'm,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: LIKE i don't want to be the. Guy you have
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to be the. Guy you're, No and so it's like
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: this whole fucking. Thing it's, like, no keep. Going It's New.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: York you're gonna take it Over, California United. States you
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: can do. It.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Well it's that thing about adulthood where it's like tremendous
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: responsibility and also freedom and you can't have one without the,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: other no.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Question. Yeah at the end of each, podcast we like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: to ask our, guests are therapists one thing that you
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: think each each of, Us kevin AND i should work?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: On because you've talked to us about an hour, Now,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: yeah obviously you got to know us pretty well in your.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Head your probably lie roof in this and back and.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Forth what's one thing, that, uh you know each of
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: us could work?
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: On, okay, GREAT i think for you slowing, down you should.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Go To kevin. First, sorry for. You So i'm just, kidding,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: no for.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: You slowing Down.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: You sound like my mother Do, yeah my whole fucking.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: LIFE i love slow?
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Down, yeah, yeah.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: More be, more give me some more. Another why slowing?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Down what is?
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: It?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: What what's the what is it doing to my nervous?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: System or why is it a?
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Problem, well it's not a. Problem it just is, Right,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: okay so let's relax into that for a.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Moment.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Okay it's a way of, being as we talked, about,
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Right it's served you in some, ways maybe not so
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: much in other. Ways. Mhm BUT i think it will
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: lessen reactivity and that's helpful for all of.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Us, yeah this is. Great, well good, job, Great these
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: are all things THAT i.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Know.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Good it's still it's a practice.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Practice it's an ever moving.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Goalpost yeah, YEAH i think, Yeah AND i think the
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: slowing down that will help you kind of sit in the.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Gray it will help you be that like non judgmental
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: observer of yourself because you, know now we're really getting into,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: it but you know a lot of the, things like
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: you're very self, aware you're aware of your, patterns you
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: can speak to. Them you're also aware of what to do.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Instead BUT i think you just go so fast that
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: sometimes you get tripped. Up, yeah does that feel?
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, sure, yeah it's spot.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: On, okay yeah for, YOU i think a focus on
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: being rather than doing kind of a version of slowing.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: Down similar BUT i think from a lot of what you,
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: shared it sounds like you're very outcome oriented and goal
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: oriented and that's, great but that kind of keeps you
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: in the doing mind rather than a tuning tuning to,
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: yourself a tuning to your partner. Presence.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cool, cool it's. Great.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Good, wow here's what you should work.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: On i'm just Gonna, david thank you so. Much this
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: is so, fun so much.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: Fun it was so much.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Fun, hey thanks for. Listening we appreciate. You if you.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Enjoyed this episode and us embarrassing ourselves and talking about our,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: feelings you are definitely going to like everything.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Else follow along On instagram at free therapy and we'll
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: see you next.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Time