Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / How Peter Frey is Reinventing Sonny’s BBQ for the Modern Consumer | Restaurants & Franchises Series

Transcript

How Peter Frey is Reinventing Sonny’s BBQ for the Modern Consumer | Restaurants & Franchises Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

• 0:04
  Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
• 0:07
  share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
• 0:10
  how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
• 0:13
  they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
• 0:19
  the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
• 0:21
  experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
• 0:25
  by how they've overcome adversity.
• 0:27
  My name is Anthony Cotespotti and today's guest is Peter Fry,
• 0:31
  the Chief Brand Officer at Sonny's BBQ, which has been
• 0:35
  serving delicious Southern style BBQ since 1968, offering slow
• 0:40
  smoked meats and a warm, welcoming atmosphere in nearly
• 0:44
  100 locations across the Southeast United States.
• 0:48
  Their mission is to spread kindness through great food and
• 0:51
  genuine hospitality. Under Peter's leadership, the
• 0:55
  company created The Q The Kindness CSR platform, launched
• 1:00
  a mobile app with over 100,000 downloads, and rolled out
• 1:04
  innovative marketing strategies that put guests at the center of
• 1:08
  everything Sonny's BBQ does. He also spearheaded an agency
• 1:12
  RFP process for brand marketing transformation, resulting in a
• 1:17
  successful recruitment campaign that boosted career site views
• 1:21
  by 88% year over year. Peter is a dynamic executive
• 1:26
  with a Master's in Business Administration and has
• 1:29
  successfully LED transformative brand initiatives at SeaWorld
• 1:32
  and Darden before joining Sonny's in 2019.
• 1:37
  His focus on guest centered strategies has helped elevate
• 1:40
  Sonny's reputation and expand its reach.
• 1:43
  Now before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
• 1:47
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• 1:50
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• 2:14
  Now back to our guest today, the Chief Brand Officer at Sonny's
• 2:17
  BBQ. Peter, I appreciate you making
• 2:20
  the time to Share your story today.
• 2:22
  Well, happy New Year, Anthony. Glad to be here.
• 2:24
  Appreciate you. The offer to speak with
• 2:26
  everybody today. All right, so before we get into
• 2:29
  talking about Sonny's, let's talk about some of the bigger
• 2:32
  stops that you've made along the way.
• 2:35
  You were with Darden for a long time, who owns several large
• 2:39
  restaurant brands. Which brands did you get to work
• 2:43
  on and what kind of projects did you undertake?
• 2:46
  Yeah, so I had the good fortune of being there for 14 years,
• 2:50
  about 10 years with a little brand called Olive Garden.
• 2:54
  Sure you've heard of them. And then about three to four
• 2:57
  years with Red Lobster before they were spun off and and went
• 3:01
  into private equity. So, you know, for me, it was a
• 3:04
  great training ground. I'd started my career in an
• 3:07
  advertising agency in New York for Saatchi and Saatchi love
• 3:11
  that experience. But you know, for me really
• 3:13
  wanted to get on to the client side and manage big projects
• 3:16
  and, and work on kind of the full guest experience, if you
• 3:20
  will. So with with Olive Garden, just
• 3:23
  so many exciting things. I actually started in local
• 3:25
  marketing, worked with operators, went out.
• 3:29
  I basically covered half the country, visited almost every
• 3:32
  single restaurant and would tour with operators and build
• 3:35
  programs that were centric to their communities.
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  What was great about the Darden experience and a lot of our
• 3:43
  executives had been through packaged goods, you know
• 3:47
  background. So we had a lot of that training
• 3:49
  that was implemented at Darden. So it gave me all the the
• 3:52
  fundamentals I felt I needed in order to be a successful
• 3:55
  marketer. But they had a great rotation
• 3:58
  program. So you'd be in media, then you'd
• 4:00
  switch over to merchandising and then you go into core menu or
• 4:04
  product development and over to advertising.
• 4:07
  So you really were afforded a, a breath of experience within a
• 4:11
  short amount of time. I'd say some of the bigger
• 4:14
  projects, we we launched a culinary program in Italy.
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  We partnered with a winery there who had a restaurant and
• 4:24
  facility where we could take managers there to get trained in
• 4:27
  the art of Italian cooking. So we take them over for a week,
• 4:30
  they get immersed in the culture, train with chefs there.
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  The idea is to bring that spirit back to the United States and
• 4:37
  bring it to our guest. Ultimately that that continues
• 4:39
  today. So I was part of the the team
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  out of that. We actually had a consumer
• 4:44
  sweepstakes where we brought guests over to experience it as
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  well. I think another big thing before
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  there was Hispanic marketing or you know, diversity, we launched
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  I would say one of the first ever in consumer in restaurants
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  campaign for Hispanic consumers. So we partnered with agencies,
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  developed the whole campaign strategy specifically for those
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  markets. So those are, I would say, two
• 5:10
  of the the things I'm most proud of when I was there.
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  So that's interesting what you're talking about, how they
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  had you kind of rotate through these different disciplines.
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  And at first I'm thinking, well, that sounds like kind of
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  wasteful, like, you know, you're here, you're just kind of
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  getting, you know, an understanding of what goes on
• 5:26
  here and then they move you over here.
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  But as I kind of thought through it a little bit more, it's like,
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  well, what a great way to sort of cross pollinate ideas and get
• 5:34
  you to understand more of the big picture of kind of how
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  everything ties together. Is that kind of how it worked
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  out in practice? Exactly.
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  And it's, you know, as you look to to progress in your career,
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  you may not be the master of everything, but at least you
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  have a general baseline and can speak to the activities.
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  So you know, again, I may have leaned into certain areas where
• 5:57
  I may have felt I was better prepared or better expert, But
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  as I rose to my career, it gave me an appreciation for the
• 6:05
  discipline. It also helped open our eyes to
• 6:08
  there's, there are ways to make improvements, you know, because
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  I've, I, I've actually, when I was at SeaWorld, we'll get to
• 6:14
  that, but I went into operations for a couple years, ran a park.
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  So by doing those things, it kind of opens your eyes and, and
• 6:21
  gives you a better appreciation of how the old organization
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  works together versus just how your particular department
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  might, might impact things. So for me, I've tried to employ
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  that as I have gone into other parts of my career, that same
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  philosophy of rotating, you know, get, get that experience.
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  It's you don't have to do it, but if you, I feel if you want
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  to be successful as a leader further in the organization, it
• 6:44
  benefits you to have a broader knowledge.
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  That makes a lot of sense. What was the timing of when you
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  were doing local marketing specifically at Darden?
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  Was this like early 2000s? No, I'm older than that.
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  So that was in 1996. So I started there and that was
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  my first role. I did that for about two years.
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  So again, you know, the marketing landscape was much
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  different back then. The the sophistication, digital
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  marketing, it wasn't there. So a lot of it was truly
• 7:15
  grassroots program. You put binders together that
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  had, you know, best practices. It was very, you know, today in
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  today's standards, it would be archaic, but you know, it gave
• 7:25
  you for brand like garden too. It's it's it's about the
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  personal connection. You know, we are, we have to
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  connect with team members, our guests.
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  So for me it was it was a benefit to be out there and and
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  do it in person. So, yeah, back in 96, there were
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  a lot of people who still didn't know what the Internet was.
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  So paint a picture for us. What did the local marketing
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  look like back then? Was it mostly, I don't know,
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  like newspaper ads, coupons to the house, like radio spots, TV
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  spots? Absolutely.
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  So what we put together is a basically a local marketing
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  toolkit. They could resource it and we
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  would actually have to then go out and produce all these
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  materials. So it could be banners, it could
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  be a lunch program, a lot of different things of that nature,
• 8:09
  but very, you know, rudimentary today I'm going to jump forward,
• 8:13
  you know, 30 years to talk to you a little bit about what we
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  do at at Sonny's. We just rolled out a whole new
• 8:20
  local marketing program. It's all automated, all the
• 8:23
  programs have been thought out. And basically now what we do is
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  we have the operator can go in there and say, hey, I want to do
• 8:29
  a a school program. They're able to go in there,
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  look at the creative that we put together.
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  They can customize it, put their own information in, send it
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  directly to the printer, and really they don't need to get us
• 8:39
  involved unless they need a little bit of assistance.
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  But you know, our idea now is to sit down with them, help them
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  put plans together, and then let them go fight.
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  We have all the tools available where they can actually execute
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  the program. So again, a lot of, you know,
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  very different than it was, you know, 20-30 years ago.
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  And I do want to hear a lot more about the marketing initiatives
• 9:00
  that you've undertaken at Sonny's because there there's
• 9:03
  some really cool stuff that you guys have already done and I
• 9:06
  know are continuing to work on. Before we get there, I want to
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  hear about your experience at SeaWorld, which you just
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  referenced. There was there were some big
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  challenges that went on while you were there, specifically
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  something called Blackfish. Can you tell us about that?
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  Yeah. So to just paint the picture a
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  little bit, obviously, you know, for I think most of your guests
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  will know SeaWorld is a is a theme park centered around
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  aquatic life. They beyond just being a theme
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  park, though, there is the scientific aspect that I think a
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  lot of people didn't, they weren't aware of at the time
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  that this came out. There was a unfortunate tragedy
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  where a trainer was killed by a killer whale that came in about,
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  you know, 9 to 10 months before I'd started the company.
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  That incident had happened. I came in and I was the vice
• 9:58
  president of marketing for their parks here in Orlando.
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  That's where I live, but I did that for a bit of time before I
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  was tapped in to to take a senior role on the leadership
• 10:09
  team in marketing for the whole organization.
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  But Fast forward, there was a film created called Blackfish.
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  And that film was a documentary of a particular the, the one of
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  the whales that had been involved in the accident that
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  took the life of the trainer. And the documentary was, you
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  know, trying to tell the story of how the whale was captured,
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  the conditions it's held in, not just at SeaWorld, but of the
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  larger picture of these animals that are in theme parks or in,
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  you know, aquatic centers. And it's A1 sided story.
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  So obviously, you know, the company had experienced, you
• 10:52
  know, different opinions from people throughout the the time
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  that the company's been around. You know, not everybody is
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  supportive of zoos and aquariums and things like that.
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  So this had a slanted view towards anti animal captivity
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  and the, you know, the science behind it.
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  What had happened is the film came out it it had kind of low
• 11:16
  visibility until it was acquired by CNN and then it was boosted,
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  you know, all across, you know, the United States and, and
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  ultimately went on to Netflix and really gained a lot of
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  notoriety. I think at one time it was
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  actually considered for an Oscar nomination.
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  That was, it was very damaging over time to the brand because
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  one, I, I don't think that the organization was one prepared to
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  prepared for the kind of blowback that was to come.
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  And while I think some may have been more prepared than others,
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  we couldn't get the organization to unified behind a strategy was
• 11:56
  more about let's just let this thing ride out because we know,
• 12:00
  we know what we're doing and we know that we're doing good
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  things. Well, Fast forward a couple
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  months and ultimately, you know, things started to unfold and it,
• 12:10
  it did start to have, you know, an impact on the organizational
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  structure. We had some leadership changes
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  and it forced us to then come up with a plan to kind of counter,
• 12:22
  counter the narrative. And I think that was the, the
• 12:25
  lesson that we should all take away from this is we need to be
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  in control of our brand narrative at all times.
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  And at this point, we kind of stepped back thinking that it
• 12:35
  was going to just resolve itself again, Not everybody had that
• 12:38
  opinion. But when we came to the unified
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  front, like, yes, we had to do something.
• 12:44
  My team, we already had a plan put together.
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  We implemented it very quickly. And over time, I think we built,
• 12:50
  built back the brand credibility.
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  But it was an easy journey. And I, I can honestly say if I
• 12:55
  can survive that experience, I can survive anything.
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  So, and our strategy really was about uncovering the truth and
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  getting it from the voices of the experts themselves, which
• 13:06
  were the the partners that we had that were involved in the
• 13:10
  care of the animals are vets, are scientists that are taking
• 13:14
  care of them. And the learning that we can get
• 13:17
  from the park experience, how does that really translate out
• 13:21
  into the natural world and trying to get our guests to
• 13:24
  understand that. It's complex, but how do you
• 13:27
  understand that? How do we educate them and
• 13:29
  entertain them at the same time? So a lot of things have changed,
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  but I think the organization's in a much better place than it
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  was, you know, 10 years ago. Things are in a much better
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  direction. And professionally, you know,
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  for me it was, it was, you know, a life changing experience.
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  And again, it, it's made me think a better marketer, a
• 13:48
  better person, you know, And yeah, I wouldn't want to do it
• 13:54
  again, but I wouldn't take it away.
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  One of those things that you look back and I'm glad I've gone
• 13:59
  through it. But you don't want to do it
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  again. So interesting that I'm curious
• 14:05
  on a couple of things. Obviously, like you said, the
• 14:08
  the Blackfish film was damaging for the brand.
• 14:12
  How is that measured in terms of park attendance like overall
• 14:16
  sales? I don't know, like you're doing
• 14:20
  surveys on sort of brand affinity?
• 14:23
  There's a couple things. So I mean, it's, it's difficult
• 14:26
  to diagnose the impact of that particular event on the whole
• 14:30
  organization. There are definitely brand
• 14:32
  perceptional things that we could look at and we did some,
• 14:35
  some ongoing NPS and and kind of brand attitude study.
• 14:41
  So we, we really had a good sense over time how we were
• 14:45
  making progress and, and getting back to where we needed to be.
• 14:49
  The other thing that was going on is you have to understand
• 14:52
  particularly in Orlando, we're in a very competitive market and
• 14:55
  we've got Disney and Universal. This was at the same time
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  Universal just launched Harry Potter.
• 15:01
  So it changed the dynamic of the whole, you know, industry and
• 15:06
  particularly attendance here in in Orlando.
• 15:10
  And we didn't have the capital infrastructure and pipeline
• 15:18
  created to compete with that type of experience.
• 15:21
  So that is in itself changed a lot of the approach of what
• 15:26
  SeaWorld would become in the future, which is, again, I would
• 15:30
  say it was a quiet, sleepy park in the beginning, had a couple
• 15:32
  rides. Now it's one of the most, you
• 15:35
  know, thrilling theme parks you can find in Orlando with many
• 15:40
  more coasters and attractions. So there's a lot more energy.
• 15:44
  But at the same time, it preserved the educational animal
• 15:48
  connection side. So you know that that I think in
• 15:51
  combination with Blackfish, all the things that happened there
• 15:54
  and what happened competitively, it changed our the strategy of
• 15:58
  what we needed to do to be successful in the future.
• 16:01
  Interesting. So it ended up being probably
• 16:04
  long term a, a very positive, I don't know if it you can use
• 16:08
  that word. It sort of caused everybody to
• 16:11
  take a step back and and take stock of like where are we, who
• 16:15
  are we, where are we going kind of a thing.
• 16:17
  Absolutely. It accelerated.
• 16:19
  It accelerated a lot of growth. I think it also created almost
• 16:24
  like a mandate of what the brand would be in the future.
• 16:27
  We had a new CEO come in, very visionary guy.
• 16:31
  He had a very, you know, concrete plan of what he wanted
• 16:35
  to implement. And, you know, we did everything
• 16:38
  we could to bring that to life. And again, I think a lot of
• 16:42
  folks would have liked to have gone faster, but we were still
• 16:44
  going at warp speed. So I'm proud of everything that
• 16:48
  was accomplished in that time. So how did the opportunity at
• 16:53
  Sonny's first come about? Yeah.
• 16:55
  So let me jump through because I, I was at Sea World for six
• 17:01
  years in marketing. Then I moved over to operations
• 17:04
  and I ran Discovery Cove. That's a all inclusive theme
• 17:07
  park where you swim with dolphins.
• 17:10
  And for me, again, as an experience, you know, managing
• 17:15
  over 500 people, culinary operations, gift shops,
• 17:21
  photography, guest relations, all these kind of things, you
• 17:25
  know, open my eyes to again, from a, an executive presence,
• 17:30
  how do, how do I take my marketing learning?
• 17:33
  How can I apply that to operations?
• 17:35
  When I went back into marketing, how do I have a better
• 17:38
  appreciation of when we want to put something through to the
• 17:41
  guest or into a team member? I think as a, as a marketer, you
• 17:46
  think it's pretty simple. As a operator, it's pretty darn
• 17:49
  complex 'cause there's so many things you're already doing.
• 17:52
  So I just want to make sure we got that across that, you know,
• 17:56
  when, if you have an opportunity to try something different
• 17:59
  within your career, take the chance, you know, and it could
• 18:02
  be just a two year stint like I did.
• 18:04
  But again, you know, it provided me with so much learning and
• 18:07
  foundation that, you know, I still I, I love that opportunity
• 18:12
  was really a lot of fun for Sonny's.
• 18:16
  You know, that opportunity came up.
• 18:17
  I, I, I'd interviewed, I'd, I'd always loved the restaurant
• 18:22
  industry as, as you can tell, you know, I've been there for
• 18:25
  many years and I thought it was a good challenge.
• 18:27
  It was a different experience. I'd come from very large,
• 18:30
  multibillion dollar organizations, big brands.
• 18:34
  And, you know, now we're at a restaurant company that has a
• 18:37
  lot of heritage, been around for nearly 60 years and you know,
• 18:44
  little under 100 restaurants, franchise organization, never
• 18:48
  done that before. Everything I'd done before was
• 18:49
  company owned. So again, a new challenge.
• 18:52
  And I think that, you know, as a marketer, you want something
• 18:55
  that's different. You want something that's going
• 18:57
  to challenge you. I think if you're doing the same
• 18:59
  thing all the time, it kind of gets a little, you know, routine
• 19:03
  and and you're looking for a new experience.
• 19:04
  So for me, I saw the challenge. I like the people a lot of that
• 19:08
  time too. It's about the culture and if
• 19:10
  you're going to fit within the teamwork, the team that that
• 19:14
  presents itself. So yeah, it took the the chance
• 19:17
  and I've been there almost six years now.
• 19:19
  So you kind of touched on something that I'm curious about
• 19:22
  which is it's this tremendous legacy brand, right?
• 19:25
  It's been around for a long time, great heritage to it,
• 19:28
  wonderful story, lots of brand recognition in the markets in
• 19:33
  which it exists. How do you kind of balance that
• 19:37
  that heritage legacy aspect of the brand with at the same time
• 19:41
  like we need to make changes and adapt to new marketing
• 19:46
  conditions, new consumer demands.
• 19:48
  It seems like that's kind of an interesting teeter totter to sit
• 19:51
  on. Yeah.
• 19:52
  So about 10 or 12 years ago, the brand had gone through a little
• 19:56
  bit of a resurgence. They did some remodeling and
• 19:59
  changed the look and feel, create more energy within the
• 20:02
  restaurant, but there were still some opportunities, some of it.
• 20:05
  Again, you have a crisis, you take advantage of the crisis and
• 20:08
  it accelerates things that you've been thinking of.
• 20:11
  So you know, kind of going through COVID, coming out of
• 20:14
  that experience, the restaurant model is different than it was
• 20:18
  before. The guests are different, how
• 20:19
  they interact with restaurants and and food in general.
• 20:23
  One of the things that, you know, a legacy part of the
• 20:26
  experience was a salad bar. Only a three, 4% of the guests
• 20:30
  ever took advantage of it, but nobody ever wanted it to go
• 20:34
  away. You know, it was a cost center.
• 20:36
  It was something that, you know, really wasn't generating
• 20:38
  revenue. If anything, it was labor and
• 20:41
  food waste, you know. So we took the opportunity to
• 20:45
  say, you know, is this really adding to the guest experience?
• 20:47
  What could we do if we took that away?
• 20:50
  What can we bring to enhance the guest experience?
• 20:53
  We took it away. Had a little bit of rumbling,
• 20:55
  but again, you know, those are things that you have to look at.
• 20:59
  Do we keep it because it is part of our legacy or is it something
• 21:02
  that adds to the future of the brand?
• 21:05
  Is that something that our guests that we're trying to
• 21:08
  attract really are appealed to? And the answer was no.
• 21:11
  The guess that the younger generation, they're not in the
• 21:14
  salad bar. All you can eat those kind of
• 21:17
  things. So we have to adapt some of
• 21:18
  those elements to match the consumer of today.
• 21:22
  Again, faced with COVID, we had to institute curbside service.
• 21:26
  Within seven days, you know, we shut down the restaurant.
• 21:30
  No more in, in, in dining room service.
• 21:34
  We were 60% of our business was inside the dining room.
• 21:38
  What do we do now? Fortunately, we have over 90% of
• 21:42
  our restaurants have Dr. Thrus. So that that helped out.
• 21:46
  We could still execute there. And then we set up curbside
• 21:48
  service where people could order online, come pick it up and then
• 21:52
  we would bring it out to their. Cart.
• 21:53
  So did you already have the online ordering component in
• 21:56
  place? We had just put that in about I
• 21:59
  think in 2018 nineteen. So again we were a little bit
• 22:05
  ahead when it came to that. Some brands were caught in a
• 22:08
  position where they didn't have that online ordering component.
• 22:12
  So we we got through that experience.
• 22:16
  We actually had some of our best financial years through the the
• 22:19
  pandemic. And when we look back at our
• 22:22
  five year performance, we're still ahead of the industry when
• 22:25
  it comes to traffic and sales. And you kind of look at how
• 22:28
  everything and everything's been up and down and as things start
• 22:31
  to stabilize. But if you look at the long term
• 22:34
  run of Sonny's, we've been very successful at, at maintaining
• 22:39
  that market share that we had gained during the pandemic.
• 22:43
  Some of the things that we did implement too though with
• 22:45
  curbside service, we immediately, once things kind of
• 22:48
  stabilized, we immediately saw that our scores started to go
• 22:52
  down because we weren't operating at the right level.
• 22:56
  Once we started opening the dining rooms, you know it, it
• 22:58
  wasn't the 100% focus that we had during the pandemic.
• 23:02
  So now is an additional revenue center that we never had before
• 23:06
  and we have to manage that on top of the other ones that we
• 23:08
  have. So we looked at what technology
• 23:12
  can help us implement curbside better and we partnered with a
• 23:16
  group called Flyby and they're basically sits on your on mobile
• 23:21
  apps. And when you order through
• 23:23
  Sonny's, we're able to track the guest journey from the location
• 23:27
  where they ordered directly into the spot that they pull up in.
• 23:30
  We can track that at the restaurant and have that food
• 23:33
  available when they arrive, you know, and helps us prioritize
• 23:36
  the orders as well. So again, taking an opportunity,
• 23:40
  we put something in, it was good, then we could make it
• 23:43
  better. And I think that's how I've
• 23:45
  been. Our approach a lot of the times
• 23:46
  is continuing to look out what are the technologies that really
• 23:50
  add the right type of benefit and return both for our
• 23:53
  franchisees and for the guests. So we're not going to be the
• 23:56
  cutting edge first to market type of brand, but we will be
• 24:01
  close to follow once we, you know, we see it working and it
• 24:03
  makes sense for our market. Peter, you made the point that
• 24:06
  customers are different post COVID is that mostly people are
• 24:11
  doing more take out or what's what's the difference?
• 24:14
  So again, I mentioned we were about 60% died in prior to the
• 24:19
  pandemic. Now we're closer to 5050,
• 24:22
  sometimes a little bit more on the died out side.
• 24:26
  So, you know, a lot more drive through, a lot more take out
• 24:31
  third party has picked up for us.
• 24:33
  You know, that was a little bit of a sleeper in the beginning.
• 24:35
  I think a lot of brands were trying to figure out how to make
• 24:38
  that work. So we're embracing that.
• 24:40
  We're also seeing our catering business go up, you know, people
• 24:43
  returning to work. So we're having to look at in
• 24:47
  the future and we're now we're, you know, this brand is all
• 24:50
  about the future. We have been around for 55
• 24:54
  years, 56 years now. We're in a position where we
• 24:57
  want to grow, we want to add additional franchisees, we want
• 25:01
  to add additional units and we think we've got the model and
• 25:05
  and the structure to do that. Part of it is looking at smaller
• 25:08
  buildings. We just opened up one here in
• 25:11
  Winter Haven, FL. It went from an average of over
• 25:15
  5000 square feet. This one's just under 4000,
• 25:20
  about 3900 square feet. So we can operate and still get
• 25:24
  the same type of, you know, great return with fewer
• 25:29
  footprint and you know, maybe a few, you know, redistribute the
• 25:32
  labor model a little bit too to handle that.
• 25:35
  So, you know, we're looking for ways to adapt our model to the
• 25:40
  markets that we serve. You know, it's not going to be a
• 25:42
  cookie cutter. Every single market might have
• 25:44
  the same type of prototype or labor model.
• 25:47
  So you see these changes probably sticking around longer
• 25:50
  term where there's fewer people dining in house, more people
• 25:54
  doing drive through curbside using, you know, the third party
• 25:58
  delivery services. This is.
• 26:00
  Here to stay. I, I think so, you know, and
• 26:03
  part of it is again, you, you look at the younger generation,
• 26:07
  they're about convenience. They want it at the time they
• 26:11
  want it at the place they want it.
• 26:13
  And you know, I think at the end of the day, there is a balance
• 26:17
  because we don't want to be a commodity.
• 26:19
  You know, we're not just BBQ. We are an experienced.
• 26:21
  So our task is to try to figure out.
• 26:24
  And I think, you know, I hope when we're doing it, hoping is
• 26:27
  not the right word. I think we're doing the right
• 26:29
  things to make sure that Sonny's is a lifestyle brand, you know,
• 26:33
  and no matter where you're going, we can be part of that
• 26:37
  experience with you. If you, if you choose to do it
• 26:40
  in the restaurant, you're going to have a great time connecting
• 26:42
  with our servers and our team members and you know, enjoying
• 26:45
  the atmosphere that we have. If you want to do it at your own
• 26:47
  home, you're going to have a great experience.
• 26:49
  If you want to do it on a tailgate or a picnic in the
• 26:52
  park, we have the perfect product and experience that kind
• 26:57
  of kind of brings that to life. You know, we're about making
• 26:59
  that human connection. Well, I was going to say part of
• 27:03
  our strategy is if you think about, you know, what BBQ is, it
• 27:09
  is about connection. And for us in particular, we're
• 27:11
  about Southern hospitality. And you know, the idea that
• 27:15
  we're trying to convey is imagine yourself a Saturday in
• 27:19
  the South. What is that like?
• 27:22
  It's it's about connecting with friends.
• 27:24
  It's the one day of the week that you can relax and be
• 27:27
  yourself. And it's about going to football
• 27:29
  games and watching them on TV or whatever it may be.
• 27:31
  You just you don't have a care in the world.
• 27:33
  Sunday's a little bit more stressful because you got to go
• 27:36
  to work on Monday. So, you know, for us, how do we
• 27:39
  get that across that every day when you interact with sunnies,
• 27:43
  it's like a Saturday in the South, and that's kind of what
• 27:45
  our our goal is. Like a Saturday in the South.
• 27:48
  Yeah. And you guys have a marketing
• 27:51
  campaign that you introduced. What is it?
• 27:55
  Everything's sunny. Yeah, it's always sunny here.
• 27:58
  It's always sunny here. Tell us about that.
• 28:00
  How did that come about? Yeah.
• 28:02
  So it goes into a little bit of the strategy that I had had
• 28:06
  spoken to earlier. But about a year and a half ago
• 28:09
  we partnered with a new agency out of Tampa, Dunn and Co.
• 28:13
  Very successful award-winning agency, has a lot of experience
• 28:18
  in food service. And we kind of stripped
• 28:20
  everything back and we said, OK, let's make sure we really know
• 28:23
  who we are. You know, again, on your legacy
• 28:25
  brand, you've got a good pulse of, of what you are, but we also
• 28:29
  tried to identify our consumers and making sure that we have a
• 28:34
  message that's going to resonate with each one of our consumers.
• 28:38
  And there's, it's more about the segmentation.
• 28:41
  So there's a lot of psycho psychographic information about,
• 28:44
  it's not just about the demo, it's about how the people are
• 28:47
  feeling and what they're trying to get out of life.
• 28:50
  And we want to make sure that we had a message that could
• 28:52
  resonate with those folks. We did a lot of research.
• 28:55
  We looked at, we did focus groups and we tried to find a
• 28:59
  position within the marketplace that we could own that would
• 29:04
  help differentiate ourselves. We're, we're known already for
• 29:06
  our pitmasters, the food quality.
• 29:08
  There's nothing there that you know, is in question, 'cause
• 29:14
  that's what, what, what our message has been about the last,
• 29:16
  you know, 10 or 12 years is a bit about our pitmasters for
• 29:19
  this. It was about communicating that
• 29:21
  everyday experience that we're the everyday man kind of brand.
• 29:25
  And you know, we want to be part of your life where it makes the
• 29:29
  most sense. You know, how can Sonny's help
• 29:31
  you? And that's where this whole idea
• 29:34
  of Saturdays in the South, trying to be that convenient
• 29:37
  partner when you're trying to connect with friends and family.
• 29:42
  We've we've launched it. We've we've seen, you know,
• 29:45
  increases. We've done some brand lift
• 29:46
  studies post the launch. We've been out about six months
• 29:49
  now. Awareness is up about 30%.
• 29:54
  We've seen a 30% increase in recall, so a lot of purchase
• 29:58
  intent about 20%. So we're seeing all the numbers
• 30:00
  that you'd want to see are moving in the right, right
• 30:04
  direction that. So for us, it's about the
• 30:06
  balance of now instead of always having promotion messages on,
• 30:11
  can we get to a place where we can really start talking more
• 30:14
  about the brand experience and less about hey, come in for this
• 30:17
  deal or that deal. So as a, as a marketer, that's
• 30:21
  kind of the sweet spot. What can you where can you get
• 30:23
  where you get the right balance of traffic driving news with
• 30:27
  sustainable brand messaging. And So what is the brand
• 30:31
  experience I come in? I've never been to a Sonny's
• 30:33
  before. What am I, what am I expecting?
• 30:35
  What am I going? To say, yeah, if you're a
• 30:38
  regular, you're expecting somebody to know your name
• 30:40
  almost. And I'm not lying.
• 30:42
  I I have done shifts there where I've been the host.
• 30:45
  They walk right past me. They're like, Nope, I want, I
• 30:47
  want to go sit with Claudia. I know exactly what I'm going to
• 30:50
  get. I don't need a menu, those kind
• 30:52
  of things. So you've got your we actually
• 30:55
  literally have people that come in there every day for lunch.
• 30:58
  So you've got those kind of people that it's just it's like,
• 31:01
  cheers. We've we've used that metaphor
• 31:03
  in the past. We just know who they are and
• 31:05
  they're part of our community. The other part I think will be
• 31:11
  you're kind of, you know, everyday man coming in for
• 31:13
  lunch, you know, they're working hard and you know, he comes in
• 31:16
  with some buddies. We get a lot of law enforcement.
• 31:19
  We get a lot of, you know, kind of the blue collar workers
• 31:22
  coming in connecting over lunch and then at dinner it's about
• 31:26
  the family. You know, it's a very safe
• 31:28
  space. It's very, you know, I wouldn't
• 31:30
  say it's not a fun, it's not tgi Friday's or something, but it's
• 31:35
  a relaxing place where you can be yourself.
• 31:38
  And I think that's what we're trying to say.
• 31:40
  Everybody's welcome here, you know, and you can just kind of
• 31:44
  kick back and relax and be yourself.
• 31:45
  So, you know, when it comes to barbecue, it can be at your
• 31:50
  terms too. You can have a 40 minute meal or
• 31:54
  you can get in and out in 20 minutes.
• 31:56
  So, you know, The thing is the food is always fresh.
• 31:59
  We can serve it at the pace that's right for you.
• 32:02
  So you know, I think that's a a nice differentiator as well.
• 32:06
  I want to get more into some of the other marketing efforts and
• 32:10
  the technology implementations that you guys have done.
• 32:13
  But before we do that and get too far away from it, I want to
• 32:16
  hear more about the franchise opportunity because you said you
• 32:19
  guys are poised for growth, you are ready, you're looking for
• 32:22
  new franchisees, new locations. Paint a picture for us.
• 32:25
  What is the opportunity look like?
• 32:27
  Yeah. So, you know, historically a lot
• 32:31
  of the the relationships have been, you know, more about
• 32:36
  opportunities that presented themselves versus really
• 32:38
  proactively going out and marketing the brand.
• 32:41
  We brought in a Vice President of franchise development in
• 32:46
  April of last year and his focus is really building out the
• 32:50
  organization and a support team that helps, you know, position
• 32:56
  the the right and for growth. We're actually going out to
• 33:00
  conferences now and conventions and, and we're putting trade
• 33:05
  booths together and really getting out there and marketing
• 33:07
  and getting our name out there. Again, if you're in Florida, if
• 33:10
  you're in the Southeast, you know, Sonny's here.
• 33:13
  We have a potential to we've talked about going to Ohio and
• 33:16
  you know, some of these other markets that are kind of in the
• 33:19
  fringe of our current territory. So you know, the dynamics of the
• 33:24
  restaurant business have changed.
• 33:26
  It's it's, you know, the, the pressures are a little bit
• 33:30
  tougher than they were before, but again, we think we've got a
• 33:33
  right, the right model and the right support structure that can
• 33:37
  deliver a good profit for that investor.
• 33:39
  So we have some large investors that have up upwards of 30
• 33:45
  restaurants and then we have some that are one or two or
• 33:48
  three store operators. So you know, there's, it's not a
• 33:51
  right size for anybody. We, we are, we can accommodate
• 33:54
  whatever makes sense for the market that we're operating in.
• 33:57
  So I think we're just open for, for new type of models as well.
• 34:03
  So like I mentioned, you know, there may be an opportunity as
• 34:06
  you get into a more urban area to have a different kind of
• 34:09
  operating, operating model and unit configuration than we do
• 34:16
  traditionally. So I think it's a great
• 34:19
  opportunity now to to get into this type of business.
• 34:22
  It's a very secure, when you look at, you know, the years
• 34:26
  that we've been around and the kind of returns that we've
• 34:29
  delivered, I think it's it's a great opportunity for investors.
• 34:32
  Are there any particular locations that you're looking
• 34:35
  for or that are already spoken for?
• 34:38
  Which of those lists would kind of be easier to share?
• 34:40
  Yeah, let's, I don't have, I'm not Privy to that right now.
• 34:44
  I mean, I think we're doing a lot of research right now.
• 34:47
  And the idea is this year will be the year that we're kind of
• 34:50
  going out there and pushing those markets.
• 34:52
  And we've already, we just started opening up the the
• 34:55
  pipeline. We got a website out there now
• 34:58
  we're getting about 100 inquiries a month.
• 35:01
  You know, so we're just starting again to open the door to, you
• 35:05
  know, hearing to potential franchisees of their interest in
• 35:09
  kind of going through the the vetting process.
• 35:11
  So we're just kind of thinking little baby steps, but I think
• 35:15
  we're going to that's a big focus on what we're going to be
• 35:17
  doing over the next five years. Peter, what is Cue the kindness?
• 35:22
  Wow, glad you asked. So another brand similar to to
• 35:28
  SeaWorld that behind the scenes does a lot of great things.
• 35:32
  And you know what's interesting is that the franchisees that we
• 35:36
  have, this is their passion. They're in their communities.
• 35:40
  We may be a chain restaurant, but we're actually home by a lot
• 35:44
  of like local operators. These are the folks that live in
• 35:48
  their communities. And we had a lot of different
• 35:51
  activities that were going on, but we could never pull it
• 35:54
  together and put it under kind of one umbrella.
• 35:57
  So cue the kindness is simply that that not that bone that
• 36:02
  ties all of our activities together.
• 36:04
  And what we really stand for, our version of Southern
• 36:06
  hospitality is kindness. And we do it through random acts
• 36:11
  of BBQ where we go out and we'll surprise people with a BBQ.
• 36:15
  They're nominated by somebody in their community.
• 36:17
  It could be a teacher, firefighter, just somebody doing
• 36:20
  a good thing. We've gone to hospitals after,
• 36:23
  you know, somebody's gone through cancer treatment and
• 36:26
  we've surprised the, the workers there with a meal.
• 36:30
  We will do recognitions for different groups and, you know,
• 36:34
  provide meals or monetary donations to different
• 36:38
  organizations. So it's really our way of, of
• 36:41
  reinforcing how we impact and interact in the community.
• 36:45
  So we were so serious about this that we, we created a position
• 36:50
  called Chief Kindness Officer and there's somebody that's
• 36:53
  nominated from the field. It's a, it's could be a manager
• 36:57
  or an employee and they are kind of our representative and help
• 37:01
  us determine, you know, our strategies and our activities.
• 37:05
  We work with them on our plans and executing that.
• 37:08
  So we're, we've just had, we've gone, we've been doing this
• 37:12
  since 2020. So we've we've had two chief
• 37:17
  kindness officers and we're about to go out and surprise our
• 37:21
  next one. So he'll be selected in the next
• 37:24
  couple weeks. And you just show up and there's
• 37:27
  some sort of like a Publishers Clearing House, kind of.
• 37:30
  Like, yeah, so we got a a group of people who are flying up
• 37:33
  there and we're surprising that person.
• 37:36
  And obviously that person was nominated by their leadership.
• 37:40
  So we vetted through many people to figure out, OK, who is the
• 37:43
  best person that can represent this position?
• 37:47
  We give them, you know, some, some monetary support, they can
• 37:53
  either keep it for themselves or a lot of times they'll donate it
• 37:56
  back to charity. So, you know, we want to make
• 37:58
  sure that they're rewarded in some way for the extra work that
• 38:02
  we're asking them to help us with.
• 38:04
  So yeah, it's, it's a really, the other thing that we have is
• 38:07
  a chief kind or a kindness crew. So they're kind of like our
• 38:11
  board of directors, if you will, and they're made-up of team
• 38:14
  members and we meet with them monthly to again, work through
• 38:18
  programs and figure out, OK, well, what are we going to do
• 38:21
  this month? And you know, what are the
• 38:22
  different activities that we could do to bring to life?
• 38:25
  The other thing that part, excuse me, part of the, the
• 38:28
  local marketing strategy that we have is we publish, you know,
• 38:32
  calendars that of activities that give restaurants ideas on
• 38:36
  how they can execute either local marketing programs or
• 38:41
  random acts of kindness type things.
• 38:44
  What? Can you give us an example of
• 38:45
  what one of those suggestions looks like?
• 38:48
  Yeah, so we'll, we might like, we're going to be doing a law
• 38:50
  enforcement day. So in in some instances, we'll
• 38:54
  do a system wide promotion. We're you know, we'll open it up
• 38:57
  and everybody, if you're a teacher, you sign up and we'll
• 39:01
  give you a free meal. In some instances, we'll make it
• 39:05
  a voluntary thing and you can go out and and set up the program
• 39:10
  in your community. So in some instances we, we do a
• 39:13
  first responders day, but then we'll also do one in particular
• 39:17
  for law enforcement that's a voluntary one that our
• 39:19
  restaurants can elect to participate in or not.
• 39:22
  There may be food donation drives that, that they can do.
• 39:26
  So again, we'll, we'll set up all these ideas or we'll give
• 39:30
  them, you know, here are things that are happening in the month
• 39:32
  of February or March. We'll give them all the
• 39:35
  connections. And if they want to participate,
• 39:37
  you know, it's at the level that they can, can handle at the
• 39:40
  time. You know, it's, it's difficult
• 39:41
  to do all these things and still operate restaurants.
• 39:44
  So that's a delicate balance, you know?
• 39:48
  Yeah, sometimes you can get a little over creative and it ends
• 39:51
  up choking things down. But I, I want to talk about some
• 39:55
  of the other innovations that you've played a part in
• 39:58
  introducing, specifically right now the mobile app and the
• 40:01
  loyalty rewards program. Peter, tell me if I have these
• 40:05
  numbers correct because some of them are almost unbelievable.
• 40:09
  So 100,000 downloads. 300,000 loyalty members, 83% cart
• 40:16
  conversion rate that's insane 20 that's 20% higher than web and
• 40:21
  29% e-mail conversion rate all within the first six months yes
• 40:26
  no this these are. Those are right.
• 40:28
  Yes, yes. And we were.
• 40:29
  We're blown away. I mean, when you 100,000, I may
• 40:32
  not seem really big. You know, again, this is only
• 40:35
  six months. How many mobile apps do you have
• 40:38
  on your phone for a restaurant? So we took all that into
• 40:41
  consideration as we're developing this.
• 40:44
  Again, my team is incredible. I've got someone on my team,
• 40:48
  Katie Love, she's director of marketing.
• 40:50
  She's leading a lot of these initiatives and has a passion
• 40:54
  for digital marketing. So we came from a place we were
• 40:58
  doing, you know, a version of CRM already.
• 41:01
  We had over a million people in our database.
• 41:04
  We're marketing to them through e-mail, but it's not really very
• 41:07
  customized. You know, we want to get to a
• 41:09
  place where we can look at behaviors and then start doing
• 41:14
  behavioral trigger marketing based on the activities that are
• 41:17
  happening. So we've done a little bit of
• 41:18
  that, but now we're at a place where we can push these
• 41:23
  1,000,000 people into a loyalty program where we can have a more
• 41:29
  individualized approach. And I'll give you an example of
• 41:33
  something that we had just done. Normally we would, we don't send
• 41:38
  out a ton of coupons, but being part of our e-mail program,
• 41:41
  which is called our Q crew, one of the benefits is you get
• 41:44
  inside tips and you get, you know, dollars off sometimes.
• 41:48
  So we would do a 5 off 30 normally over a, you know, I
• 41:53
  think it was about a 14 day period.
• 41:55
  We get about 4000 redemptions, take that same offer, push it
• 41:59
  through the app. Now we're no longer doing it on
• 42:02
  Q Crew. We had 9000 redemptions.
• 42:05
  So smaller base, more, you know, engaged audience and we doubled
• 42:11
  the amount of respondents. So that's the kind of results
• 42:15
  that we want to get to is, you know, how do we get to a place
• 42:18
  where we know the guests so much that we can take away some of
• 42:22
  these bigger promotions and talk to the guests that really are
• 42:26
  engaged in the brand and offer them incentives to come one or
• 42:30
  two more times a year. That's all we're asking because
• 42:33
  it's much easier. Everybody will tell you, much
• 42:35
  easier to engage in a a current guest than it is to try to win
• 42:39
  somebody over. So, yeah, the numbers that
• 42:42
  you're seeing, they're a little outdated.
• 42:44
  We're continuing to grow. But you know, we're very
• 42:46
  impressed. Obviously when you come through
• 42:48
  the mobile app, you're, you're more likely to complete that
• 42:52
  purchase than you were on the web.
• 42:53
  You might be just kind of shopping around and and seeing
• 42:57
  things. But when you have that mobile
• 42:59
  app on your phone and you start engaging it, there's a higher
• 43:02
  commitment level to complete the purchase.
• 43:05
  So that's why we're seeing so much the numbers are so much
• 43:08
  better through that mobile app than they are on the website.
• 43:11
  So the website I gave. Are actually better today.
• 43:14
  Yes, yes, they've. Improved.
• 43:16
  That's really impressive. I mean, Peter, you made the
• 43:18
  point that you know hey, we're not going to be right at the
• 43:21
  cutting edge, but we're going to be pretty close to follow.
• 43:24
  I mean, I have to imagine particularly for a restaurant
• 43:28
  chain of your size that you guys are absolutely right on the
• 43:34
  edge. I mean, maybe there are bigger
• 43:36
  restaurants than you that have adopted some of these
• 43:39
  technologies more quickly. But it is my perception of that
• 43:42
  correct that you compared yourself to similarly sized
• 43:45
  restaurants. That you would say Yeah, I'd say
• 43:48
  I'd say I like to say we're punching above our weight class,
• 43:51
  you know, at times. So, you know, when it comes to
• 43:55
  the mobile app, I think if we would have jumped too soon, we
• 43:58
  would have looked into white label kind of developing our own
• 44:01
  thing. You know, this is a we're we're
• 44:04
  working with thanks. They've got a great platform.
• 44:07
  We don't we're not in a technology business, so we don't
• 44:09
  have to do it ourselves. I also feel that for us to be
• 44:14
  successful and what we have noticed is that we embrace our
• 44:18
  franchisees. We want to know their thoughts.
• 44:21
  We had put together a road map and we had all this vision, but
• 44:24
  they also have thoughts. They want hey, we were kept, we
• 44:27
  kept hearing we want a mobile app and we want this and that.
• 44:31
  Well, we we also had to build the infrastructure that could
• 44:33
  support that mobile app. So what we did is we said, let's
• 44:37
  get a couple of our, you know, thought leader franchisees to be
• 44:40
  part of the journey with us, help them in the decision making
• 44:44
  process so they can see what it takes to get from the beginning
• 44:47
  to the end. And when we did that, everything
• 44:51
  accelerated everything, you know, we got people on board so
• 44:53
  much faster and allowed us to, you know, complete all the other
• 44:57
  things that we had to do in order to finally get that mobile
• 45:00
  app in place. So you know, the the more
• 45:03
  opportunities that you have to engage particularly in our
• 45:06
  business with franchisees, get their input, I think you're
• 45:10
  going to be much more successful.
• 45:13
  What was maybe the biggest challenge that you guys ran into
• 45:16
  rolling out the app? I think a lot of internal
• 45:22
  conflict in the beginning, you know, different priorities
• 45:25
  folks, some folks not believing that we were a brand that needed
• 45:30
  to have a mobile app, that hey, we're just too small.
• 45:33
  You know, we're not a, we're not a Chick-fil-A, we're not a this
• 45:35
  and that. People aren't going to download
• 45:37
  the app. So a lot of it was trying to
• 45:39
  build the case study and the confidence on with some folks
• 45:44
  that were very influential and I think you know we did a good job
• 45:48
  and again and part of that was bringing some of these
• 45:50
  franchisees to get their point of view in perspective.
• 45:57
  Let's talk about Peter, the media attribution system.
• 46:02
  Tell me what that is and what it's doing for you.
• 46:06
  Well, it's again, you know, for us it's about having the right
• 46:10
  partners. So again, this is a technology
• 46:12
  that's proprietary to us. It's something that our agencies
• 46:16
  now have. And when we partnered with Dunn
• 46:19
  and Co about a year and a half ago, that was a deficit.
• 46:21
  You know, some of it you're, you're flying a little blind,
• 46:24
  you know, and I think marketing in the past has has been
• 46:27
  susceptible to all these are fuzzy numbers or you know, you
• 46:31
  know, that kind of thing. Now we have the capability.
• 46:36
  Before we were working with Dunn, we could look at online
• 46:41
  revenue so we could see somebody saw our ad or interacted with
• 46:45
  it. We could track it down to the
• 46:47
  purchase. But again, that's only half of
• 46:50
  our of our business. So partnering with them, they've
• 46:54
  got different platforms that they work with.
• 46:57
  We have tokenized credit cards. So what we're able to do now is,
• 47:01
  again, if I viewed an ad or I clicked on something and then I
• 47:06
  went to the restaurant and I purchased with a credit card
• 47:08
  that links back to my account. Now I'll be able to see that I
• 47:12
  saw the ad, I actually purchased it.
• 47:15
  And within a certain window, we'll attribute it to that ad to
• 47:19
  say, OK, we're taking credit for that.
• 47:21
  They've also done, sorry. Let let me make sure I
• 47:23
  understand this before we move on, Peter.
• 47:25
  So obviously everybody's all concerned about privacy,
• 47:27
  especially, you know, it pertains to online activity.
• 47:30
  But what you're explaining to me isn't piercing any kind of a a
• 47:34
  privacy veil. You know that somebody you don't
• 47:38
  know who you don't know. It's all anonymized so we don't
• 47:41
  know the person. Somebody saw an ad and then you
• 47:44
  got this tokenized credit card information that one of your,
• 47:47
  you know, partners is able to sort of connect the dots in the
• 47:49
  background and says that anonymous person who saw our ad
• 47:54
  yesterday came into the restaurant today for lunch and
• 47:57
  spent, you know, $23 on a BBQ sandwich and a couple of drinks.
• 48:03
  And you don't know who that person is.
• 48:05
  But now you know that that ad is working to put a butt in the
• 48:09
  seat at that restaurant. Is that right?
• 48:11
  Correct. Yes.
• 48:12
  And then they are also able to do some testing to look at the
• 48:16
  incrementality to say, OK, for those that weren't exposed to
• 48:19
  the ad versus those exposed, what did we really get?
• 48:23
  So we can attribute we, we did this yesterday and we were
• 48:27
  working with some of the our agency partners.
• 48:29
  I'm just going to throw an example out, but you know, we
• 48:31
  generated $42 million in revenue from the ads and you know, 5
• 48:37
  million was incremental. So that could, that was
• 48:40
  basically saying had those person never seen the ad, you
• 48:43
  know, they probably wouldn't have come in.
• 48:45
  So again, we, you know, we don't want to take credit for things
• 48:48
  that, you know, that were not attributed to the marketing that
• 48:52
  we're doing. So we're really trying to tease
• 48:54
  out to the, is this a good investment?
• 48:57
  Are we driving people in? Is there increment, incremental
• 49:01
  visitation happening? So, you know, for me, you in the
• 49:05
  past you would have to do a media mix modelling, all this
• 49:07
  weird math to try to, you know, figure out is the marketing
• 49:11
  working now Fortunately all of our marketing is besides
• 49:16
  billboards and stuff, all of our marketing is digital now.
• 49:19
  So we're on CTV, we're on, you know, Promogramic, we're on SEO.
• 49:27
  So anything that is involved, you know, that's the space we're
• 49:30
  at. We're not on terrestrial
• 49:32
  television or anything like that anymore.
• 49:34
  Gotcha. And I cut you off.
• 49:35
  You were starting to tell something else about the
• 49:39
  attribution system that you're working.
• 49:41
  Oh well, again, you know, those are things that we're fortunate
• 49:45
  enough that our partners can bring to the table and bear to
• 49:47
  the table. So again, now we can look at
• 49:51
  that and it, it actually allows us to not only a tribute, but
• 49:54
  then we can do some modelling to say, well, what what about if we
• 49:57
  invested a little bit more money, you know, what could
• 49:59
  happen? What are the possibilities based
• 50:01
  on the return of an of investment that we're getting?
• 50:04
  Could we actually drive additional revenue?
• 50:07
  So that's part of our thinking moving forward as we look to
• 50:10
  grow the company and look to, you know, drive more sales, is
• 50:15
  investing more behind marketing an opportunity that we have.
• 50:18
  You know, we don't want to be a cost center, we want to be a
• 50:20
  revenue center. You know, the ability to drive
• 50:23
  revenue. Do you ever see that an ad might
• 50:25
  perform well say in the Orlando market, but not that's very same
• 50:29
  ad, same timing, not perform in the Jacksonville market?
• 50:34
  Yeah, I would say it's, it's probably more centered around
• 50:37
  the offer where you're getting at.
• 50:39
  So when when I'm thinking about the ads, it's maybe a promotion.
• 50:44
  So yeah, I think ultimately where we would love to get to is
• 50:48
  a place where the markets have more flexibility to run
• 50:52
  promotions. We would have a a, a Bank of
• 50:54
  offers that they could use and what you know might work in
• 50:58
  Jacksonville may not work in Orlando.
• 51:00
  So they can work on their own. Ultimately, I'd love to just
• 51:04
  have more of a brand overarching message that we could run to
• 51:08
  talk about the experience and then locally pull the levers on
• 51:12
  the different offers that would appeal to that market.
• 51:15
  Peter, say more about the work that you guys want to do in
• 51:20
  identifying behaviors and having that sort of trigger trigger
• 51:24
  much more personalized marketing messages.
• 51:26
  Yeah, so beyond done, we also work with an agency out of
• 51:31
  Atlanta called Crowd and they handle all of our CRM website.
• 51:36
  You know, they also do some of our franchisee media planning.
• 51:41
  They're helping us again, looking at the audiences that we
• 51:45
  have. We, we've partnered with these
• 51:47
  two agencies to one, segment them into different marketable
• 51:51
  groups that can be linked back to Resonate and Mosaic targets.
• 51:57
  But then we're also looking at the different types of behaviors
• 52:01
  that are happening in the restaurant and kind of doing
• 52:03
  some AB testing to say, OK, you know, how do we move somebody
• 52:07
  from 4 visits to five? You know, what are activities
• 52:10
  that we can do to do that? What happens if somebody was a
• 52:15
  current guest and they drop into a lapsed guest?
• 52:17
  What is an automatic automated offer or message that could go
• 52:21
  out to do that? So we've got about 20 different
• 52:24
  scenarios that were running in the background.
• 52:28
  Operators don't have to worry about anything, but as as the
• 52:31
  audiences exhibit certain behaviors, they slide into one
• 52:35
  of the groups and then some type of message or offer may be
• 52:39
  triggered in order to do that. You know, it's not, I don't get
• 52:43
  to interview a lot of chief brand officers and I've got a
• 52:47
  little bit of a marketing background.
• 52:48
  So this is a lot of fun for me. What are the questions that I
• 52:51
  like to ask, You know, more like CEOCOOCFO or HR folks.
• 52:59
  And initially it scratched off. Wasn't going to ask you, but as
• 53:01
  I'm looking at your LinkedIn page, I, I realize it might
• 53:04
  actually be relevant, you know, 'cause I hear from a lot of
• 53:07
  people it's still a tight labor market out there.
• 53:09
  Hard to, you know, find good people hard to hold on to them
• 53:12
  And I'm like, well, cheap brand officer, this isn't really your
• 53:15
  wheelhouse, but I'm seeing on here a recruiting a recruitment
• 53:20
  marketing campaign that you launched called a few good
• 53:23
  people, which and tell me if these numbers are still correct.
• 53:27
  Significantly increased visitation rates and views to
• 53:29
  their careers web page by 23% and 88% year over year.
• 53:36
  Yes. Tell us what this campaign was.
• 53:39
  How did this? Look, this was our first like
• 53:41
  unified campaign for the brand. So at a franchise system, the
• 53:47
  the franchise actually manages, kind of works with the team
• 53:53
  members. We put the training together,
• 53:54
  but at the end of the day, the employee works for the
• 53:57
  franchisee. We wanted to put together.
• 54:01
  Coming out of the pandemic, labor markets were terrible.
• 54:04
  You know, people were, you know, fleeing the service industry,
• 54:07
  going to, you know, Amazon, all these different places.
• 54:11
  And so we wanted to come up with a campaign that we really spoke
• 54:16
  to our culture and the, the heart of who we are and trying
• 54:20
  to get people to at least, you know, if you haven't been to us
• 54:25
  or you haven't worked for us, just, you know, kind of learn
• 54:28
  more about us. So this whole campaign was about
• 54:30
  opening up that idea and, you know, getting people to at least
• 54:35
  express some interest. So we did, you know, get more
• 54:38
  people to our careers website. We had more people interested in
• 54:41
  kind of feeding that pipeline, if you will, of applicants.
• 54:48
  So the, I mean, I wouldn't say the the labor market is great,
• 54:53
  but it's it's stabilized to some degree.
• 54:55
  It's not where we were, you seen?
• 54:57
  It come back a bit. Come back a bit, yeah.
• 54:59
  Yeah, Peter, what are some things you're either currently
• 55:04
  working on or have planned for the future that might be fun for
• 55:08
  us to hear about? Wow.
• 55:10
  You know, for us, we have been doing so much the last, you
• 55:15
  know, five years or so our, our big emphasis like I was
• 55:19
  mentioning before is really going to be on growth and
• 55:21
  franchise development. So we'll as marketers, we're
• 55:24
  going to help shift some of our energy to support those
• 55:27
  initiatives. I think part of it also is
• 55:30
  executing what we put in place. You know you can at one point,
• 55:35
  at some point overload the system if you keep adding more
• 55:39
  and more. So for us, it's about we think
• 55:41
  we've got the foundation's now in place and it's building on
• 55:45
  that. So when you kind of look at
• 55:47
  well, how are we going to hit our sales target next year, the
• 55:51
  first thing we got to do is how do we build on the things that
• 55:54
  we already have in place before we start adding more things in
• 55:57
  there. So you know, I will say on the
• 55:59
  loyalty program this year in the first quarter we're going to be
• 56:02
  launching a tiered loyalty structure.
• 56:06
  So people will be rewarded at different levels.
• 56:09
  So there'll be incentives to get from, you know, level one to two
• 56:14
  to three. And as you go more visits and
• 56:16
  more spend level things will start unlocking.
• 56:19
  So we, we didn't roll that out in the beginning.
• 56:21
  Right now everybody gets everything.
• 56:23
  But we, we think that this is going to add a lot of value and
• 56:27
  engagement. So, you know, for us again, it's
• 56:29
  it's just about perfecting and executing all the things that
• 56:33
  we've got in place. That makes a lot of sense.
• 56:35
  You guys have put in a lot of things that we've already
• 56:38
  covered here today and it seems like maybe a good time to kind
• 56:42
  of take your breath and sort of fine tune the dials rather than
• 56:46
  looking for something else major to bolt on.
• 56:49
  I'm curious about the loyalty program.
• 56:52
  Do these still work? Are people drawn in by these?
• 56:56
  Do they encourage more, you know, repeat purchases?
• 57:00
  Absolutely. I mean the, the numbers that
• 57:02
  we're seeing you know speak for themselves.
• 57:05
  One, in terms of engagement, we are starting you know at the at
• 57:09
  the end of this year coming up, you know in 2025 we'll have a
• 57:14
  good sense of customer lifetime value in terms of behavior.
• 57:20
  So we're still kind of in the early stages. 6 months doesn't
• 57:22
  give us enough window. But I would say over a year's
• 57:26
  time, we're going to start knowing more about the
• 57:28
  engagement level, the frequency, early indications are that the
• 57:33
  folks that are in our loyalty program are more engaged.
• 57:37
  When we do put things out, they are activated against it.
• 57:42
  They are redeeming the rewards that we're putting out there.
• 57:46
  So we are seeing changes in behavior.
• 57:48
  We don't have a complete picture yet, but I anticipate that we're
• 57:52
  going to continue to see good things from it.
• 57:54
  I. Want to shift gears on you,
• 57:56
  Peter, and talk about a serious challenge that you've overcome.
• 58:00
  The past, either personal or professional, or maybe it
• 58:02
  intertwines the two. What was it like going through
• 58:05
  that? What were some lessons that you
• 58:07
  learned? Well, you know, I think I'll,
• 58:12
  I'll get a little personal here. You know, well, obviously the
• 58:15
  Blackfish, that was that was a big one.
• 58:16
  But you know, when you when you're with the company, there's
• 58:22
  a lot of structural changes that happen and, you know, going
• 58:25
  through those kind of things and making the right decision.
• 58:29
  So when I was at, at SeaWorld, we had multiple layoffs and, you
• 58:33
  know, trying to go through that process and make the right
• 58:39
  decisions that are the right thing for the company, but also
• 58:42
  understanding that there's, there's real people involved
• 58:45
  here. I, I can remember when I first
• 58:47
  started, I was there about a month in my role and had to lay
• 58:52
  off like 20 people. And, you know, I'm still the new
• 58:56
  guy, you know, so I'm just trying, trying to establish
• 58:58
  myself. So, you know, for me, it's, you
• 59:02
  know, it's about balancing the business and, and humanity.
• 59:06
  And you know, that is a delicate walk.
• 59:08
  It's not personal. And that how do you, how do you
• 59:10
  'cause it feels personal, you know, when that, when you go
• 59:13
  through that kind of experience. So, you know, I try to, to, to
• 59:18
  team members are really important to me.
• 59:20
  And, you know, I'm a, I'm at a place in my career where I feel
• 59:24
  like I'm more of a teacher and more of a mentor than anything
• 59:27
  anymore. And, you know, if I'm able to
• 59:30
  share some of the experiences and the learnings and the goods
• 59:34
  and the bads with, with some of the younger folks that I'm
• 59:36
  working with that that makes me feel good.
• 59:38
  I get energized from that. But I think the hardest thing
• 59:41
  for me is just kind of going through those tough
• 59:44
  organizational changes and, you know, maintaining your posture
• 59:48
  as a leader 'cause you got to get people through it.
• 59:50
  The people are that are not let go, they're worried.
• 59:54
  You've got to build the confidence that the organization
• 59:57
  is is good and we got we're going to move through it.
• 1:00:01
  Yeah, I want to give a little more context to this.
• 1:00:03
  There are people who are listening that have never had to
• 1:00:06
  let someone go. You know, either, you know, the
• 1:00:09
  owner of your own company or, you know, you work for somebody
• 1:00:12
  else. But these are people who report
• 1:00:13
  directly to you. And so you're responsible for
• 1:00:15
  letting those folks go. It is, in my opinion, maybe the
• 1:00:21
  hardest thing to do in life, especially when in the situation
• 1:00:26
  that you're talking about this. This wasn't for performance
• 1:00:30
  reasons. You didn't have somebody who was
• 1:00:32
  just slacking off, you know, being, you know, not a team
• 1:00:37
  player. Even that is difficult because
• 1:00:39
  you know, that's going to affect that person's livelihood.
• 1:00:42
  But when you've got to lay off a chunk of people who have been
• 1:00:46
  good performers, good team members, because you've got to
• 1:00:48
  right size the ship, wow. I mean, the weight that that
• 1:00:52
  puts on a person because you know that you've just affected
• 1:00:56
  their ability to provide for their family, this isn't
• 1:00:59
  something that's going to be easily turned around for them.
• 1:01:03
  I'm curious, Peter, as you went through that, as you've gone
• 1:01:07
  through that experience, what were some coping mechanisms for
• 1:01:10
  you? Who were you able to kind of
• 1:01:12
  lean on for support during that time?
• 1:01:15
  Well, family for sure. My wife is a marketing
• 1:01:18
  professional. She kind of sees the the same
• 1:01:21
  things that I'm experiencing too.
• 1:01:23
  So for me, you know, a lot of my success I attribute to her
• 1:01:27
  'cause she's, you know, my, my biggest coach and cheerleader.
• 1:01:31
  I think it's also finding the right type of mentors, you know,
• 1:01:35
  people that you can constantly turn to.
• 1:01:39
  I have, I have a mentor that he just passed away last year, but
• 1:01:44
  would would be somebody I could call in a moment's notice if I
• 1:01:47
  was in. And I have, you know, when I've
• 1:01:50
  had the challenge, he would meet me at at a restaurant and we
• 1:01:54
  would chat. So it's having those kind of
• 1:01:56
  people that you can really count on.
• 1:01:58
  It doesn't have to be a long, a large base, but just, you know,
• 1:02:01
  a few folks that you really trust.
• 1:02:04
  Yeah. So that that's my support
• 1:02:06
  network. I'm curious, what was his name
• 1:02:09
  you mentioned that recently? Kennen Birch.
• 1:02:11
  Say it again. Kennen Birch.
• 1:02:13
  Kennen Birch. So he was a, he was my director
• 1:02:17
  at Red Lobster and then he went off to do his own consulting
• 1:02:21
  work. He did a lot of brand marketing.
• 1:02:24
  Just a phenomenal human being and just he left, he did leave a
• 1:02:29
  true legacy, so. That's terrific.
• 1:02:32
  Any other mentors or maybe books or other kinds of experiences
• 1:02:36
  that you want to give a call out to that have been helpful to you
• 1:02:38
  in your path? You know, it's interesting
• 1:02:43
  because this, besides Kennen, there are folks that I've worked
• 1:02:48
  with that, you know, I always look at the best of what people
• 1:02:51
  can that bring to the table. That's what I also appreciate
• 1:02:55
  about Sonny's. You know, it's a strength based
• 1:02:57
  organization. It's not about, oh, Peter,
• 1:03:00
  you're not doing this or you're not doing that.
• 1:03:01
  It's really Peter, you're really good at that.
• 1:03:03
  What can we do to take advantage of it?
• 1:03:06
  I appreciate that. It took a while for me to get to
• 1:03:10
  a place that fought like that. And that's hard, you know,
• 1:03:15
  because we're going to be our own worst critics at the end of
• 1:03:18
  the day. And I beat myself up all the
• 1:03:22
  time and I'm again finally at a place where I don't have to do
• 1:03:25
  that anymore. I feel like, you know, the
• 1:03:27
  organization appreciates what I bring to the table, but what I
• 1:03:31
  try to do is find out the best things out of the individuals I
• 1:03:36
  work with and try to emulate them.
• 1:03:39
  So, and I can remember specific people and what they did.
• 1:03:43
  And when I'm, when I'm confronted with a situation,
• 1:03:45
  I'll say, well, what would Christine do or what would Kenan
• 1:03:47
  do or what would this person do? So, you know, maybe not one
• 1:03:52
  person's got the, nobody's got the complete package, but you
• 1:03:55
  know, if you can draw from inspiration and strength from
• 1:03:58
  others that that for me has been, you know, it's kind of
• 1:04:01
  like my Swiss Army knife. I can pull out different things.
• 1:04:05
  That's cool. You mentioned that.
• 1:04:08
  You know, Sonny's is a place that really focuses more on
• 1:04:10
  people's strengths rather than calling them out for, you know,
• 1:04:13
  what they're lacking in or struggling with.
• 1:04:16
  As you sort of became ensconced in that type of culture, did you
• 1:04:21
  notice it changing it all? How you manage people?
• 1:04:27
  Absolutely, yeah. You know, even in performance
• 1:04:31
  reviews, we really don't do those as much we do or
• 1:04:34
  discussions, you know, what are you, what are your goals?
• 1:04:37
  How do they align with the organization?
• 1:04:39
  How can I support you? And we, we, we do these, we work
• 1:04:44
  with a company called Talent Plus.
• 1:04:46
  They do all this testing to really find out where are your
• 1:04:49
  strengths, what are the things that we can get to maximize your
• 1:04:52
  performance. It also identifies the things
• 1:04:55
  that might be holding you back. Doesn't mean you punish them for
• 1:04:58
  that, but it's just, you know, it's watch outs, you know, how
• 1:05:00
  do you work around those kind of things versus, you know, try to
• 1:05:03
  fix them? But yeah, I think it it's
• 1:05:06
  changed the way that you, you develop people, you work on
• 1:05:09
  projects, you coach people. You know, it, it allowed me to
• 1:05:16
  or customize that the projects and the discussions versus, you
• 1:05:21
  know, just like one, Hey, this is the, the approach I have with
• 1:05:25
  people and this is how I, you know, put put together reviews
• 1:05:29
  or, you know, we're putting our objectives together.
• 1:05:32
  Everybody's got to do it the same way.
• 1:05:33
  Not necessarily. I think, you know, it's really
• 1:05:36
  about trying to identify what works for people.
• 1:05:38
  One of the things that I, I'm really big on myself, I'm still
• 1:05:44
  doing it. I'm still trying to learn how to
• 1:05:45
  do it better. It's about and we're, we're
• 1:05:47
  great marketers. We're not always great about
• 1:05:50
  marketing ourselves. And I don't have a big ego.
• 1:05:52
  I'll be honest, I really don't. I'm pretty humble.
• 1:05:56
  I feel bad saying that like I'm, I'm humble saying I'm humble,
• 1:05:59
  but I really don't. I'm a really kind of easy going
• 1:06:02
  guy, but I also know that I've got to project a certain image.
• 1:06:07
  And, you know, I'm kind of one of those.
• 1:06:11
  I, I'm an extrovert at work, but introvert at home 'cause, you
• 1:06:13
  know, I just need to recharge. And so you're on stage and you
• 1:06:17
  got to have that persona. So I put together these
• 1:06:20
  individual brand personas and we're all, we all worked on
• 1:06:23
  them. And it kind of tells you what
• 1:06:25
  your strengths are, what, you know, if you, you had a look at
• 1:06:27
  your archetype, who would you be?
• 1:06:29
  And what I, I asked each one of my team members to kind of go
• 1:06:33
  through this and examine, you know, based on your strengths
• 1:06:36
  and based on everything you knew, what is your brand?
• 1:06:39
  How do you how do you put yourself up in a statement?
• 1:06:43
  You know, what is the thing that you deliver?
• 1:06:44
  What's the unique, your unique brand positioning?
• 1:06:47
  It's we all have that and we all keep that at the heart of at who
• 1:06:51
  we are. And you know, we try to stay
• 1:06:53
  true to that. The other thing that I did is on
• 1:06:56
  on top of it is I wanted to make sure that we had unified values
• 1:07:00
  and principles within our department.
• 1:07:02
  So it didn't matter if I was out talking to a franchise or, you
• 1:07:08
  know, somebody else on my team, they should expect the same type
• 1:07:12
  of service result. You know, we're all one team and
• 1:07:16
  whoever you're interacting with, you're going to get the same
• 1:07:19
  experience. So those are those are things
• 1:07:21
  that again, you know, over time and then it got amplified when I
• 1:07:27
  got to to to Sonny's to say, hey, this is an organization
• 1:07:31
  that will embrace that type of thinking.
• 1:07:33
  So you have the folks that report to you or work with you.
• 1:07:37
  Everyone creates their own personal brand persona.
• 1:07:40
  Sounds like this is a little bit more of a hands on a different
• 1:07:45
  approach to like a personality assessment.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah, yeah, it's really, you know, for me, I've always been
• 1:07:50
  interested in kind of like understanding myself and what
• 1:07:53
  makes me tick. And, you know, I'm asking the
• 1:07:55
  same thing with everybody else. What makes, what's going to make
• 1:07:58
  you successful? What do you want to be known for
• 1:08:01
  to the people that you work with and kind of what do you
• 1:08:03
  represent? So it's just kind of getting
• 1:08:05
  that all in in one place and then sharing it with others.
• 1:08:10
  Peter, I've just got one more question for you.
• 1:08:11
  But before I ask it, I want to do 2 things.
• 1:08:13
  First of all, everyone listening today, I know that you love
• 1:08:16
  today's content. Peter has shared a lot of golden
• 1:08:18
  Nuggets today. Please hit the share, like or
• 1:08:21
  subscribe button on your favorite podcast app.
• 1:08:23
  Peter, I also want to let people know the best way to get in
• 1:08:25
  touch with you. What would that be?
• 1:08:28
  All LinkedIn, you know, just you know, look for me it's Peter Fry
• 1:08:32
  Frey, you cannot you know, if you want to, you can share my
• 1:08:36
  e-mail on on the podcast as well.
• 1:08:39
  You got it. I'd be happy to connect with
• 1:08:42
  folks. I'm always looking to make new
• 1:08:43
  connections and. Share Stories.
• 1:08:46
  We will put both the LinkedIn profile in the show notes as
• 1:08:51
  well as your e-mail address, but we'll go ahead and mention the
• 1:08:54
  e-mail address here on air in case somebody's listening on the
• 1:08:57
  go. It's P Fry, so PFREY at
• 1:09:01
  sonnyssonnysbbq.com. So last question for you, Peter,
• 1:09:08
  I'm kind of curious to hear your thoughts on what do you think
• 1:09:12
  the big changes are that are coming to your space here in the
• 1:09:16
  next couple of years? Wow, that's, you know,
• 1:09:20
  everybody's talking about AI. We were just talking about it
• 1:09:22
  yesterday too. We don't know.
• 1:09:24
  Again, we're not going to be the leader in that.
• 1:09:26
  But simplification, you know, the guest experience, I don't
• 1:09:34
  know what's going to be happening with the with the
• 1:09:35
  restaurant industry. I do feel like you know
• 1:09:38
  technology's going to continue to have an influence probably.
• 1:09:43
  It seems like QSR is the 1st place it goes to just cause of
• 1:09:46
  the convenience side. Service restaurants.
• 1:09:48
  Yep, Yep. I think you know, for us, we are
• 1:09:50
  in between fast casual and which is like kind of like a Panera
• 1:09:55
  and casual dining. So we, we can kind of service
• 1:09:58
  multiple types of audiences. So I, I do think AI will have
• 1:10:02
  some influence, maybe kitchen automation to simplify some of
• 1:10:06
  the back of the house things. We've already implemented some
• 1:10:09
  POS changes on our side where now we we move from kind of a, a
• 1:10:15
  standalone station to now Toast, which is handheld POS devices.
• 1:10:21
  So anything we can do to simplify that experience both
• 1:10:24
  for team members and for our guests.
• 1:10:28
  I do think restaurant sizes, real estate, all those kind of
• 1:10:32
  things are going to be changing. You know, if less people are
• 1:10:36
  going out to eat and they're kind of dining in their own
• 1:10:39
  experience, you don't need that square footage that you needed
• 1:10:42
  to to do before. So, you know, all the things
• 1:10:45
  that were happening are just multiplying now.
• 1:10:48
  They're accelerating much faster.
• 1:10:49
  So probably what I say today will be outdated by tomorrow.
• 1:10:54
  How do you see AI being used in the kitchen?
• 1:10:56
  Talk through that real fast. I don't know about the AII think
• 1:11:00
  AI could be used. A lot of folks are doing it
• 1:11:02
  through drive through, you know to do suggestive selling.
• 1:11:05
  We have some of that implemented through our online ordering
• 1:11:09
  platform. So there's algorithms that, you
• 1:11:11
  know, move guests to different suggestions based on what
• 1:11:15
  they're ordering. I think the the automation
• 1:11:18
  within the system will be more about equipment automation,
• 1:11:21
  things that make it just easier to get things done, take out
• 1:11:24
  steps. All right.
• 1:11:26
  Well, Peter, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing
• 1:11:28
  both your time and your story with us today.
• 1:11:29
  I really appreciate it. Great.
• 1:11:31
  I appreciate the invite. Anthony, take care.
• 1:11:33
  Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
• 1:11:36
  podcast. Thanks for learning with us
• 1:11:38
  today.