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Secrets of Converting Online Leads to Closed Sales · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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the real estate agents is essential for success.
0:06
However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
0:11
With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
0:15
can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
0:20
Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
0:31
And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
0:34
with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
0:45
of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
0:52
in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
0:56
Don't miss out.
0:57
Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
1:03
Hey, what's up, everybody?
1:10
Jeff Zimfer, you know who I am.
1:12
I'm the host of this podcast episode and the whole dang show, mortgage marketing radio.
1:17
Thanks for tuning in.
1:18
If you don't know by now, what we do here is help loan officers get more agent referrals
1:24
so they can become the go-to lender in their local market.
1:26
How do we do that?
1:27
Hey, we help you create a personal brand that attracts agents instead of chasing agents.
1:32
We help you identify the producing agents in your local town and we help you implement
1:37
a proven system for closing more loans without having to co-call agents pay for leads, chase,
1:41
beg, borrow, steal.
1:42
You build a stampede, a lot of agents who seek you out, brokers as well, teams, everything,
1:48
helping you build the presence online and social media so that you become the go-to lender
1:53
of choice in your local market.
1:54
Hey, by the way, I got a quick success story.
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I wanted to share with you one of our members, our OG superstar members, Liz LaFour, what's
2:04
up?
2:05
If you're listening to this, shout out to you.
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Liz recently changed companies and it's interesting because she shared with us that she
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was told by her previous management that maybe she should focus on one thing or a different
2:16
niche than teaching classes to agents.
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And today, almost two weeks after leaving her previous employer, she has 69 Realtors
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signed up for her Instagram class.
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So she's leading with education, she's helping Realtors solve problems, overcome challenges,
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delivering unique tangible value that gives Realtors advantage and thus differentiates
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her in her local market and attracts people to want to partner and work with her.
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That's how you differentiate.
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That's how you build a pre-eminent brand and reputation in your local market in addition
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to being a world-class loan officer, of course, which she is also.
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So if the name of the game is getting in front of agents, right, if that's going to be
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a source of business for you, right, and perhaps the primary source, then we know it's
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law of large numbers.
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And you can do that once you choose, go to broker-previews, open houses, you can do coal-calling
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if you want.
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Hey, everything works, it just doesn't work equally well, everywhere all the time for
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everyone.
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You got to figure out what's going to work for you.
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Is teaching agent classes right for everybody?
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Of course not.
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But for those that are open to it, for those that want to actually lead with education
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and have a business that delivers to you every single month agents opting in to want to
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come meet with you.
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I mean, imagine this.
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Would you rather have a meeting with 10 agents or in Liz's case, 69, right, or would you
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rather go once you choose, once you choose, to sift and sort and find the agents you need
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to find?
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But I prefer to use leverage activities when I can and scale to get where I need to go faster.
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Maybe that's you, I don't know.
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But if you want to learn more about what we're doing and check out some other success stories,
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go to mortgagemarketing.pro, read Liz's story there, read the other success stories.
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And if you feel compelled to learn more, well, tap that little orange button that says,
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what could call with me yet on my calendar?
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And we'll see if we're a fit for each other.
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OK, this week my special episode talking about sources of business.
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I'm bringing to you a superstar with American Pacific mortgage, Mr. Kyle Wright out of Chandler,
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era, Zona.
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Kyle is a top producing loan officer.
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You're going to hear about his numbers of production in just a few moments.
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But why we wanted to bring Kyle to this conversation is because, look, I'm a believe
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her in that one is the worst number to have in business, especially when it comes to sources
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of business.
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And while I have stated here before that the number one source of business for most loan
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officers is real estate agents for good reason.
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We won't go into that now, but I'm happy to hit that with anybody.
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But there are other sources of business, right?
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There are consumer direct.
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There are places where you can buy leads where it might make sense for you.
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And the conversation that I have with Kyle today breaks down how he's leveraging leads
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online leads.
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And yes, dare I say partnering with select real estate agent teams and actually co-investing
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in some of those lead sources together to be able to generate a large volume of leads
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on a monthly basis with a solid conversion rate.
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He's going to map out his entire process for lead opt-in, lead nurture and lead conversion.
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And you're going to hear it's people process technology.
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And so if you've ever wondered what a lead conversion strategy a successful one that actually
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delivers and has a positive ROI, this is the conversation for you to listen to and take
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notes.
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And so I encourage you to do so.
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And of course, if you like this episode, please do me a favor.
6:13
Leave us a review wherever you're listening to this right now on your mobile phone.
6:17
Take a second.
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Pull over.
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Put it in park and just let us know you like this episode.
6:22
I appreciate it.
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All the love to you.
6:25
Without further ado, let's get into this week's show Kyle welcome to the show.
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Thanks for having me.
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It is a pleasure to have you, sir.
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Why don't we do this?
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Let's take care of housekeeping right out of the gate for the listeners.
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Who are you?
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How long in the biz, brief background or on that and then give us kind of either last
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years or yeah, why not do last years kind of numbers, if you will?
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Yeah.
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So, Kyle, right.
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I'm with the American Pacific mortgage.
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I've been licensed since 2015 and with the American Pacific since 2016.
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Last year did 336 units for 138 million in the Arizona market.
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Yes.
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And what's the balance of purchase versus re-five for you, typically?
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Last year was 90% purchase.
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Oh, how about the year before that, the reverse, 90% was 75% purchase in 2021.
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Wow.
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You didn't take your eye off the ball.
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Nope.
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Yeah.
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So, 2018, 2019, in 2020, I had a 90% purchase business and then 2022, it was 75% and then I'm
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back to 90%.
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And primary source of that purchase business?
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Real true referrals.
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Real true referrals.
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All right.
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We're going to talk about that for sure because I see you're pretty vested in one particular
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brokerage.
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It appears to be very, very vested.
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Yes.
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Right.
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Okay.
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So, by the way, congrats on that volume.
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That's awesome.
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Units.
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Let's dive into that then, seeing as that is the primary source of your business is the
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realtor side of things.
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And I'm going to, if you don't mind, I'll start with that.
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Do a little research prepping for this.
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So I'm in MMI and I see you have a pretty dominant relationship with my home group, a real
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estate brokerage.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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With one of their branches and I share an office with them.
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It was years in the making, but yeah, we have an office together.
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Are you considered the in-house lender?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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And for that group, we actually sought out a building together as one team that got their
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own little branch and then I have my branch.
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So we actually got our branches in the same building.
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So there isn't like just random my home group agents in this area.
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It's just one team's group that's in this building with me, but they have their own branch.
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So are you, the primary deals coming out of my home is from a team versus the brokerage?
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Yeah.
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So I actually have a pretty dominant relationship with two my home group teams and both of those
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teams are here in my office with me.
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All right.
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You said that was years in the making and I think people are always curious about how
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did that happen?
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What's kind of the origin story there?
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So back when I was trying to get real estate agents, I had reached out to a couple different
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guys that like I had known that were in the industry and I just kept hounding them and
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hounding them.
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And this one guy, he just was like, listen, I've got a relationship because I'm on this
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team and I have to use their lender.
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And I'm like, well, I'm here in case something doesn't happen.
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A couple of months went by and I kept texting him and just saying, hey, what's up?
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He ends up leaving that team that he's on and goes and creates his own team with another
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guy from the team that he left with.
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We sat, they called me and they're like, hey, we're interviewing lenders, we want to sit
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down with you.
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I sat down with them.
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I chatted with them and they're like, hey, we want you to be our guy.
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And I'm like, look, I like you guys a lot.
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But one thing you have to understand is like, I don't like sharing.
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So if I'm the guy, like I'm the guy, like this isn't multiple people, this isn't like
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I'm your guy.
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And but I will give you 100% of me and I will make this work for you.
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So we shook hands and that was 2016 and I was going to really start to take off for us.
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The two team members, the two real estate agents, the one that actually had brought me in ended
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up not doing real estate anymore, but his partner is who I still do business with today.
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Interesting.
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And you are still the go to lender for that team?
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The go to lender, they have 60 agents now on that team.
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And so they've grown from one singular agent to 60 agents in about six years.
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So that was you basically marketing yourself, putting yourself out there wanting to develop
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realtor relationships, you know, you got the whole Heisman side arm thing.
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Hey man, we're good, not interested.
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You persisted.
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Then something shifted, which opened up a door, something changed for them.
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You went back in there and got invited back.
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I'm going to assume your persistence ultimately paid off, right?
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Well yeah, it was definitely, you know, there was about three different agents that was
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trying to pursue at that same time.
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And all three of them actually gave me an opportunity at the same time to be their lender,
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but all three of them wanted me to spend money with them.
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And you know, agents, they love when you spend money with them.
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So I had to make a choice, which one of these guys was I going to spend money with because
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at the time, this is 2016, like this is June of 2016, I had made like $25,000 at year
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so far.
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I didn't have two nickels rubbed together and these guys are wanting me to spend 500 to
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a thousand bucks a month with them and I'm like, how do I tell you I'm broke, but not
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tell you I'm broke?
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So, you know, I actually took out, I could see the writing on the wall that like this was
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an awesome opportunity, whether I picked one, two or three option for spending money.
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So I actually took out a title loan against my truck that was paid for by my in-laws,
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took out my title loan, so I could pay my bills so that I could put the marketing budget
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on my credit card.
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And you know, because you can't pay your mortgage with your credit card, so.
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We might have made that money stretch a little longer if we could, but you can't.
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And so, you know, I took out that title loan and I was able to get three months worth
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the marketing paid for with Tyler and Tyler was ultimately the one I chose of the guys
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that like were wanting me to spend money with them.
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I just felt like I felt like he would be true or to our handshake agreement than some
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of the other guys were.
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Not that they weren't true, just I just felt like he had a little bit more drive and so
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we shook hands and we started spending money and we freaking close 30 transactions right
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after we started spending money.
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So we had like one or two months of no nothing coming in, but then August through December
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we closed like 32 transactions together.
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Are you still co-investing in leads?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'm heavily invested in online leads with myself personally, Facebook with myself personally
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and then with realtor online purchase leads as well.
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With Tyler or other people at my home?
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With Tyler, with one, two, three, four other groups as well now.
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This is an interesting conversation, right?
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Because I know you know this well.
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There's a lot of people who poop who crap on the idea of like paying for leads and you
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know, that's like usually the first complaint a lot of allos that need your, you know, real
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tor just wanted you to pay for crap.
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Yeah.
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What's your response to that?
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Well, so when we were sitting there, me and Tyler was 2016.
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We were chatting.
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The meeting was only supposed to be like 30 minutes.
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We were in there for two hours and it just kept flowing.
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The juices were good and it was really funny because I said, dude, I don't have any business.
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I've closed like four deals and he's like, he's like, I don't have any business and I've
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closed like four deals and you know, we were just kind of joking around about it, but we
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had a very similar experience.
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We're like, none of our friends and family really wanted to give us a shot.
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Like, I had friends and family that are real estate agents, wouldn't even give me a shot.
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He had friends and family that were buying houses that weren't even giving him a shot.
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And so we sat down and we're like, what are we going to do?
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And he's like, you know what?
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Let's spend some money and I said, let's do it because I don't have any clients and you
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don't have any clients.
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And everyone's like, oh, work your sphere.
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Well, how do you get a big sphere?
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We can pay for a big sphere.
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So now, I have more leads than I can even fathom in my CRM that I have of all the leads
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I've purchased over the last six years.
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And unless someone is in the same category as I am, you know, spending as much money as
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I do on marketing, I would beg that my database of phone numbers, emails, socials and things
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like that is bigger than LOS that have been in the business for 20 plus years that aren't
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doing this type of marketing where they're buying online leads.
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And so I was like, you know what?
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I'm just going to get to the point where I have so many clients, I can just flip off spending
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money and buying them and just work my entire database and I'll have 200,000 leads, emails,
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phone numbers that I can just turn it off and just work inside of my own, you know, platform
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that I have built with all these leads that I bought because I didn't have any clients.
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So I was like, we're just going to buy them.
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Yeah.
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So you had to get clients somewhere and that's definitely one path to getting there.
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That, of course, isn't sure you've evolved over time since doing that requires certain
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systems to be in place to make that effect.
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How do you manage that now, they're all in a CRM, you got a bunch of, you know, systems
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and funnels set up?
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Yeah.
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So actually something new that we started, which is actually really cool, but we do have
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systems and funnels all set up.
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But actually sitting in front of me, I just made this, this is the version 3.0, there's
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nothing better than a good organized notepad.
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And so what I do is I have a CRM that organizes my leads and has drip campaigns and reminders
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and different things like that.
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But what I do is every lead I get, I put down in a column and I continue to write it down
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all the way down.
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Yep.
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And then I have a pre-qualified column all the way down.
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So this is usually like weekly, usually weekly.
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And then what I'll do is I'll work through the leads and once I've reached out to him,
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you know, a set number of times we have a set number, then it'll go to a call blast
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on a Saturday.
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So then we have callers that are calling on Saturday.
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So basically, you know, we've told the real estate agents, hey, I have three days to get
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a hold of your lead and take an application.
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If they don't answer for me, it's going to a virtual assistant who's going to be calling
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behind me for 10 plus days.
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If that lead has not answered after 13 days of constant reach out on the day 14th, I'm
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calling you and letting you know.
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This isn't a lead that wants to talk right now.
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Let us know when it comes back.
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But you know, at the same time in our lead system that we have, it's then doing a follow-up
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with that lead every month and then every two months and then, you know, so forth.
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And then after a year, it's bringing it back to the attention of the real estate agent
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saying, hey, you know, Shana, who I tried to call a year ago, still have not been able
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to get a hold of her, have you gotten any contact with her?
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And you know, it's just bringing it back to their recollection, you know, as far as
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that CRM goes.
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But I do use this on, this is my weekly organizer.
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And then I have my longer organizer in my CRM.
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I just rotate the list all the way over.
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All right.
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Some questions in there.
18:37
Thanks for walking me through that, by the way.
18:39
Everybody wants to know, you know, it's up to you.
18:42
You're not required to answer anything here, but people are, I'm sure, curious, what
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CRM are you seeing?
18:49
So one that I just switched to is June go.
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And the reason we did is it incorporates with and compass.
18:58
There are several other ones that do like, I've got a buddy who's like, he's in lead generation
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way more than I am in the aspect of he doesn't have realtor referrals.
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He does only online lead generation for himself and then pans him off their agents.
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But his referral business back is smaller than mine, but he actually does significantly
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more than I do in general online.
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And he uses big purple dot, that's the one that he uses.
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And then total expert is actually working on becoming as good as these two other ones.
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It's, you know, it, yeah, it's like that.
19:37
But the thing is, this tolexer actually has all of the tools to do it.
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They just don't turn it on.
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And it's what just turn it on.
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Let me, let me use it.
19:48
The virtual assistants use Velocipy.
19:51
Yes.
19:52
Wasn't that pretty something else I can't remember?
19:56
It, I mean, it's Salesforce, which is funny because June go is Salesforce and Velocipy
20:00
is Salesforce.
20:01
Right.
20:02
Right.
20:03
But they're geared different.
20:04
Velocipy is very heavy on lead generation, but once it's passed a lead generation and
20:09
it moved on to like a transactional, it's kind of not as great.
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Whereas June go is fairly decently generation up front.
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And then it is better on the transactional side.
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What are these lead sources that you're investing in?
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So I invest in realtor.com, realt.com, zelo.com, Facebook, Instagram, Google paper clicks.
20:35
We use a CRM system called Chime for the real estate agents that buys Facebook and Google
20:43
paper click leads.
20:45
So it's very interesting when I think about you are deeply embedded, integrated with that
20:54
realtor's business in the lead, spend, share, process, I mean, the success of those leads
21:01
would you say is dependent upon both of you.
21:05
Yeah, absolutely.
21:06
So when we work these leads, we try to express to both teams that, I mean, we're all commission
21:14
employees, right?
21:15
So if we don't close deals, we don't get paid.
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And so we try to express like we're spending money on these leads.
21:23
And you know, when we run the numbers, sometimes it costs us $800 to $1,000 every closed transaction.
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But if I told you that you could make $3,000 if you gave me $800 bucks or even $1,000,
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how many times you're going to give me $1,000 bucks?
21:40
Right.
21:41
Yeah, all day.
21:42
I mean, it becomes a numbers day or a numbers game.
21:45
And I would pay that $1,000 every single day, every time you just, you tell me how many.
21:52
I mean, there was a month where they wouldn't let us spend more money.
21:55
We wanted to spend more money and they wouldn't let us spend more money.
21:58
What about, let's play Devils Advocate here.
22:00
What about the lead quality, those online leads suck, air quotes, right?
22:05
Yeah.
22:06
So there is this quote from one of the agents I work on and he said the leads don't suck
22:12
you suck.
22:14
And that sounds really abrasive when you like just think of it just like that.
22:18
But his point is you can always find an excuse somewhere as to why it doesn't work for you.
22:24
But then you always hear about some other guy that's making it work, right?
22:29
And yeah, lead suck, they do, you know, straight out of Glen Gary Glen Ross, man.
22:35
Yeah.
22:36
I mean, the leads suck and suck.
22:39
Yeah.
22:40
Yeah, exactly.
22:41
And so like one of our realtors, he does trainings on it and he's like, you have to realize
22:46
that if, you know, because there's guys on the team, on the real estate team, on the
22:50
lending team, and there's guys that crush it with the same leads that some other person
22:58
will get the same leads and they'll be like, man, I just can't get people to answer their
23:01
phone or, you know, I can't get anyone to purchase.
23:06
But then there's the same guy and the same team with the same leads who is closing five
23:11
or six a month.
23:13
So at the end of the day, yeah, the leads are terrible.
23:16
Sometimes I get FICO scores in the 450.
23:19
So what I did is, you know, I adapted a soft credit check rather than a hard inquiry
23:25
because they're $6 for that instead of $50 for a credit report.
23:30
And I just do soft polls, boom.
23:33
And so now I get, you know, because before when you're working on leads, you get like one
23:38
day, I'll get like 15 applications and five of those are going to have FICO's in the
23:41
low 500s.
23:42
Mm-hmm.
23:43
Well, that's $250, I just spent on credit reports for those that were terrible.
23:49
Right.
23:50
Well, now that I do the soft poll, it's 35 bucks, you know, but if that's every
23:55
single day, you know, I started saying myself $200 a day on leads that I was spending.
24:01
So you just got to find ways of, you know, filtering through them, but you're going to
24:05
get bad leads.
24:06
I mean, every person I talk to is not qualified.
24:08
I got people right now.
24:09
I've got several people on credit repair plans that are trying to work on their credit.
24:14
But I would say that a third of the leads that I get are terrible.
24:20
They won't qualify for years.
24:23
You know, I give them a game plan.
24:24
I know I'll never talk to them again, just kind of of that.
24:27
But I will say that for every lead that is sent over from the real estate team or a lead
24:33
that I call, we are closing between 25 and 30% of those.
24:39
Really?
24:40
25% conversion ratio on the leads.
24:43
Mm-hmm.
24:44
So this is on applications taken.
24:47
So when they send them over, right?
24:50
So we have about a 50% contact rate on leads that are sent.
24:55
And then we have a, like, so last year, I had a 28% close rate on applications taken, which
25:01
actually was down considerably from the years prior, is typically I run it about a 33 to
25:08
35% close rate on applications taken to purchase contracts and close funded deals.
25:15
So last year was tough, man.
25:18
With the rates going up and all that, it really hurt the conversion because there was so
25:23
many people that got priced out that did take applications for that, like, then couldn't
25:28
buy because by the time they got someone except their offer, rates had gone up so much that
25:32
they couldn't qualify for the home anymore.
25:34
So last year, we still maintain about a 28%.
25:36
It was like 27.8% on our conversion from applications taken to actually close deals.
25:42
And we have a 50% contact rate.
25:48
Is the process the same for those leads from different sources, meaning are they all
25:53
entering some top of funnel somewhere, or is it different based on lead source?
25:58
Yes.
25:59
With the realtors, so just focusing on realtor leads that come on over, I have multiple
26:04
teams.
26:05
They all like to run just a smidge bit different.
26:07
But essentially, the realtors are getting their inflow of leads and then they're calling.
26:13
And then when they get a hold of them, they're passing it to the lending team for us to contact
26:17
them.
26:18
So our initial funnel is the agents getting contacted with it first and then filtering
26:24
out who's ready to talk to and who's not ready to talk to to us.
26:28
And then from there, that's not the paid leads, right?
26:30
Those are the more S.O.I. leads and all that to the realtor's get.
26:34
Those are Sphere leads, those are paid leads, those are all of them.
26:39
So the realtor hopefully has a contact first.
26:43
Yeah, so what we do is they have, we have a realtor that spends the money and then we
26:49
share in it and it's realtor leads and then we have lender leads which they inquired
26:56
for a mortgage.
26:57
So we're talking about just the realtor, they inquired about a house, those leads.
27:03
Those leads the top of the funnel is the real estate agents.
27:05
When it comes to the, like where they want to do a mortgage inquiry, that one right there
27:12
is our own CRM system that is just instant contact.
27:16
We have to call within five minutes and we're trying to get those ones on the phone.
27:19
So that funnel is then coming into the CRM automatically getting dripped on, automatically
27:24
coming to someone on the lending team for them to call out for that phone number.
27:29
So the ones that want to get a pre-equal, pre-approval is the goal then to get them on
27:34
the phone before an online app?
27:37
Yeah, my biggest piece is in why I think that we have such a big conversion ratio on
27:45
these and an application rate is the clients that actually do the app with us on the phone.
27:53
You're more likely to get it.
27:54
I mean, the goal when you're doing leads online, the goal is the social.
27:59
They say that 72% of your, 72% of your leads that you talk to, once you have a social
28:11
are not going to leave you.
28:12
So 72% of clients work with the very first loan officer or real estate agent that they
28:19
talk to.
28:20
So if I get that social, I got a 72% chance that I'm dealing with them.
28:25
That's pretty good.
28:26
But just to make sure I understand, you're having in a large percentage of the cases a live
28:32
conversation with them.
28:34
Yeah, my goal with my team is not to push the online app.
28:39
We live in a digital age, I totally get it.
28:42
With spear deals, I totally push online app.
28:45
But if I'm dealing with an online lead that came in through online sources, you have
28:51
to understand what's happening is that lead clicked on a house.
28:55
And even if I'm paying for exclusive leads, right, they clicked on that house, then that
29:00
one went to a different house, went to a different house and they clicked on that house.
29:03
Well, there's another lender and another real estate agent that just got clicked on for that
29:07
lead as their exclusive lead.
29:10
Well, it's not really exclusive.
29:12
That leads not exclusive to that website because now they clicked on a different house and
29:15
it has to be contacted again.
29:17
Now there's multiple people reaching out.
29:19
So for us, if you have them on the phone, get the application because if you don't, there's
29:25
some other dude that has all the time in the world behind him that's calling and power
29:31
dialing that client and saying, I need your social because I got to get this done for
29:35
you.
29:36
And if you're not doing the same thing, the chances of that lead actually doing your online
29:40
app, it's not good.
29:43
Yeah.
29:43
So yeah, it's like, take them off the street as we used to say.
29:47
Yeah.
29:48
Yeah.
29:49
Yeah.
29:50
Why tell them?
29:51
I'm like, hey, I'm just letting you know, it really sucks how they do this.
29:55
But they gave me your information to contact you.
29:57
And then they're going to sell that information 10 times.
30:01
So I'm just trying to make sure I get you taken care of so that when you get those calls,
30:04
you're like, hey, guys, I'm good.
30:05
I don't need anybody's help.
30:06
Like I already got this taken care of.
30:09
You know, I've set them, I've prepped them for that because that is a huge piece of like
30:15
the next step is they're going to get calls after because they clicked on websites.
30:20
And these places, they're in the business of selling online leads.
30:23
You think that they're really going to only sell me one lead for a hundred bucks?
30:26
No, they're going to sell it to me for a hundred bucks, wait a few days and then sell
30:28
it for 25 dollars to someone else.
30:32
So I got to be mega on top of making sure I get that social.
30:36
You referenced your team.
30:38
So you're running a branch.
30:39
Is that what you mean when you reference your team?
30:42
So at the branch level, we have eight loan officers here, but I have three loan officers
30:48
that work on my team.
30:50
So that way, someone's available at all times for an agent, a prequel, or something.
30:55
Okay.
30:56
All right.
30:57
And that's they're involved in some of that lead distribution.
31:01
Absolutely.
31:02
So when the leads come through, the agents will be like, Hey, I need this to be called.
31:07
And I'll be like, Hey, Skyler's available right this minute.
31:10
Skyler's going to hop on that call with Amanda at four o'clock today.
31:14
So it's kind of distributing the load.
31:16
So that way we can all have lives.
31:18
I mean, we have kids and we want to go fishing on Saturdays and stuff like that.
31:22
So it helps distribute the loads.
31:24
We have four callers me included.
31:26
So I have three callers plus me.
31:28
And we distribute the leads periodically so that we even have the load for us all.
31:33
How long has it taken you to build out that whole process as you've just kind of highlighted?
31:40
Six years.
31:41
Six years.
31:42
And it's still changing every day.
31:44
We just implemented a brand new process like last week.
31:48
So what about, what do you, I want to set that question aside, I'm looking at the MMI
31:53
and I'm seeing the quantity of agents from the my home group real estate brokerage
31:58
and the quantity of loans and just add a quick glance.
32:02
It looks like collectively, at least for this term, which looks like 14 months, roughly
32:06
100 plus loans that you've gotten from my home collectively.
32:10
Yeah, it should be at least that.
32:13
Yeah, I'm curious though, I've got to assume that you're not doing that lead system
32:18
like you just laid out with all those agents.
32:23
What do you mean by all of them, like all the ones on the team or like all my other teams
32:28
I work with every single agent that you get deals from at my home.
32:31
You're not doing a lead share swap, co-pay thing with all of them.
32:35
That's just for your Tyler and your big team, right?
32:38
Yeah, so those agents that you're looking at are on those teams that I pay with.
32:45
Yeah, and then I have several agents that I don't pay at all for.
32:50
So I have probably 10 to 15 agents that are singular solo agents
32:55
or they run teams that I don't pay for at all.
33:02
We're trying to think of the audience.
33:04
We've got people at various stages listening to this and I'm sure some people are listening
33:08
and they're like, man, that sounds really either they're thinking that sounds awesome.
33:13
Like I would love to do that, but it also is pretty complex what you have set up.
33:18
Like not, we can do what you just described.
33:21
Yeah, the thing is is with, you know, being in American Pacific,
33:25
there are some cool tools and things I have access to.
33:29
You know, we have AP Connect, which is a virtual calling that goes behind us.
33:32
So that definitely helps with, you know, making sure we keep up on things.
33:36
Because I mean, let's be honest, if we all were amazing at follow-up,
33:42
you know we'd all be retired by now.
33:45
Like every single every every good loan officer would be retired if he was amazing at follow-up.
33:49
Yeah.
33:49
Right?
33:51
So I've taken that out of the equation.
33:54
What's something that we're really good at, right?
33:56
Really good at oh, I got a brand new lead.
33:58
I'm excited about this lead and I'm going to I'm going to work on it for a few days and then
34:02
if it doesn't come to fruition, what happens?
34:04
You get discouraged and then you move past it.
34:06
So AP Connect helps bridge that gap between follow-up and excitement.
34:12
So I allow my guys the three days to work on their excited lead.
34:16
And after those three days, it goes to a follow-up team that like let's literally their job is
34:20
just follow-up.
34:22
So yeah, this is complex, but AP Connect is part of, you know, APM and APM has provided that.
34:29
But you can set up something like this on a very smaller scale.
34:32
I mean, a lot of mortgage companies have a CRM.
34:34
It's not super robust, but Jungeau was only like a thousand bucks for the year.
34:41
Right.
34:42
Per user.
34:43
So you can set yourself up.
34:44
There's even other ones out there.
34:46
Like there's this one called lead mailbox.
34:49
And it's actually super archaic.
34:52
My old manager uses it.
34:53
It doesn't have graphs and, you know, visuals.
34:57
But it's it's very like you import data.
35:00
You click a button and it does what you asked it to do.
35:03
And they will build it for you.
35:05
And you pay like five cents in email or like three cents a text message kind of thing.
35:10
And so it's actually a really cool, like you can find a cool system for very cheap.
35:15
The other thing is is when you go spend money with some of these real estate agents,
35:18
it comes with a lender portal access to their CRM.
35:21
Right.
35:22
And you can build one of them inside of it and it comes for free.
35:27
When you sign up on Boomtown or Chime or Bribity.
35:31
And these are some of the three biggest ones with real estate agents.
35:34
You get a lender portal access for free and you can set up all of these drip campaigns in there.
35:39
So it's really, yeah, it is a little robust and it is a little complicated.
35:44
But start somewhere.
35:45
You don't need to have 100 different, you know, pipelines and viewpoints.
35:51
Start with your initial follow up for 10 days of pain.
35:55
You should be contacting that lead 10 days of pain.
35:57
Once you have 10 days of pain, put it on a monthly reminder to have an automated text message go out.
36:02
And then have an automated text message every other month to go to you to manually reach out to
36:07
that client and the agent.
36:09
That's the first three things you should set up.
36:11
And if you have that set up, you can land any real estate agent.
36:15
The other stuff comes with bigger teams and bigger volume that you have to adjust in a
36:19
search for. But having just those three little, those three little campaigns set up
36:24
will impress 90% of the agents that you work with.
36:28
So what you're pitched then to those agencies is, hey, I'm going to be your lead nurture
36:32
conversion partner for you.
36:34
Yeah, absolutely.
36:36
And this is dealing with the people listening as well, who might think that,
36:41
well, don't the railroads already have that?
36:45
Some do.
36:45
Some do, but many don't.
36:48
Yeah, so there's this, so I'll give you an example.
36:51
So at the branch level, I have opportunity to work with eight other loan officers
36:56
that are trying to build similar businesses to the one that I have currently built.
37:00
So I'm trying to help mentor them, you know, be there.
37:02
So I made the pledge that if they land a real estate team that was willing to meet with them,
37:09
I will go to the meeting and help sell them on why our system rocks.
37:15
So one of the agents took me up on it and met with a team, a team lead.
37:19
So not the team owner, but a team lead that has three sub teams under the big team.
37:24
That big team is a really well known team here in Arizona.
37:30
And they have three preferred lenders.
37:33
So just like we were saying, they have lenders.
37:34
They've got it taken care of.
37:36
We sat down and I shared with them what our follow-up looks like with our AP Kinect
37:41
and what our system looks like.
37:44
Very, very few lenders are doing that.
37:47
Most lenders are riding it down on a piece of paper like this,
37:52
working it for three days and then saying they couldn't get a hold of it and moving on.
37:56
They're not calling every single day for 10 days.
37:58
And neither am I. We used to, just with the number of leads we get,
38:02
we can't do that anymore and properly do that.
38:04
So now it's, you get three days with it and then we move it on to a virtual assistant
38:08
that is calling for 10 days straight to try and get a hold of that client.
38:13
And what's, do you have any numbers or percentages on that,
38:16
the VA calling to try and get a hold of the client?
38:20
Yeah, so the VA that we, so this is all newer, right?
38:23
So this is a newer process that we've incorporated.
38:27
The VA's are bringing back about 20% of what we are not getting hold of.
38:34
Are these stateside VA's? Are they in other locations?
38:37
In California.
38:38
California, okay.
38:39
Yeah, so AP, APM has AP Kinect, which is a little company within that.
38:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:45
So they run it.
38:47
It costs me 250 bucks a month and then I have to pay a basis point split
38:52
when they send it back to me, but if you think about that,
38:56
okay, so even if I had to pay 30 basis points to them or 40 basis points to them,
39:00
which I don't, but let's say I did, this 30 basis points on whatever your comp plan is
39:07
that you weren't going to get, because let's be honest, you are not calling that lead in two weeks
39:12
from now.
39:12
Yeah, you're not getting that deal, yeah.
39:15
So I'm having to pay, you know, a few basis points to get that deal back.
39:20
Okay, again, again, with this $1,000 number, if I had to pay $1,000 for a lead,
39:24
I'd make $3,000, how many times can I pay you $1,000, right?
39:30
And you can start small.
39:32
I mean, even right now, with marketing, I've spent $500 in four months on Facebook marketing
39:43
and I have three contracts, $500 in four months, we turn it on in December,
39:50
and I have three contracts from it.
39:52
What's the ad running?
39:55
Down payment assistance.
39:57
You're going to get a lot of low FICO score and a lot of people that barely qualify,
40:04
but the leads are dollars instead of hundreds of dollars, and once you land one,
40:12
you know, the other thing is this, I'm spending money to get clients, right?
40:18
And then I can work my sphere.
40:19
But if every client were to send me two referrals that I didn't pay for,
40:26
my $1,000 per close client just went to $350 per close client.
40:32
So again, with the paid leads for these down payment assistance people,
40:36
you know, we're working on putting our best foot forward.
40:39
Yes, they may or may not qualify, but they also have people that are trying to purchase two.
40:45
So it's not always just like what that immediate lead looks like.
40:48
What can come from that lead?
40:50
So I always look at if I buy one lead, and I do my job right, and I follow up right,
40:56
I should be able to turn that one lead into three leads, and two should be free.
41:03
No, I mean, you're thinking like a business person, right?
41:05
It's most people look at how much things cost versus what they are worth, what the value is,
41:10
or the return. Like in ad terms, you know, this probably return on ad spend, right?
41:14
So most people saw how much this ad's going to cost me.
41:18
Well, that's not the real metric to look at.
41:20
It's going to, you got to look at what's the net out of that.
41:22
So like you said, if you're going to make less still, are you profitable, right?
41:27
Above that, I mean, you're thinking I was going to ask you this.
41:31
Hearing you articulate the systems in process, and the framework through which you're looking at this,
41:39
you sound like a business owner, right?
41:42
Somebody whose job it is is to have a profitable business.
41:45
And the number one thing to focus on is on deal flow, right?
41:48
Client generation, client acquisition, things like that.
41:51
Have you always thought like that as a loan officer?
41:54
Or was there some point in shift where you're like, you know what?
41:55
I got to get out of carrying a bag and actually run a business.
41:59
So the very beginning, you know, I come from an entrepreneur or family.
42:04
My dad started multiple businesses.
42:06
You know, my aunt was CEO of a mortgage company at some point.
42:12
And everyone I've talked to, I've made sure that a lot of my mentors and coaches are all business people.
42:19
And so when I come to them, they don't care what the clients are saying to me.
42:24
They go, what are your numbers? What is this?
42:27
And so I've had to learn to be very, when I go to people for advice or whatever,
42:32
they want to know the numbers.
42:33
They're business people, right?
42:34
I mean, one of my mentors, he owns, he has ownership in 36 different companies
42:41
and sits on the board for 12 of those companies.
42:43
They don't go in and go, oh, what's your client saying to you on the phone?
42:47
And oh, man, I'm sorry that they don't qualify.
42:50
He wants to know, how much you're spending, what's the return?
42:55
What is being created from this?
42:57
What is your percent conversion in, you know, so far?
43:02
And, you know, that's just kind of where it came from is,
43:05
and we start, I spent money just,
43:08
willing, nilly, just because I can eat it, leads.
43:10
Sure.
43:10
But then it came into, okay, we're spending money here,
43:13
but let's rotate that money over here because,
43:16
you know, with these leads, even though we're calling double the amount of leads
43:20
and getting crappier leads, it's a third the cost and our return is five to one.
43:27
So, let's just buy more of these leads.
43:29
We have to deal with a lot more crappier leads.
43:31
How do we filter through those?
43:32
Oh, we'll get a VA that calls them and filters them free,
43:36
and then we just deal with those, you know, periodically, so we're not being bogged down.
43:40
So it's all, you know, return on investment.
43:43
How many times can I give you a dollar and get back two dollars, right?
43:47
Because even if it's, you know, I'm not making five dollars on my dollar,
43:51
I'm making two dollars.
43:52
Again, how many times can I give you a dollar and you give me back two?
43:56
Yeah, right.
43:57
Yeah, but see, that's part of the problem.
43:59
People want the five back or whatever, and they think,
44:01
ah, that's too expensive, you know.
44:04
Wrong thinking.
44:05
Yeah, I've focused on if it's over two dollars, I'm in.
44:10
Yeah, yeah.
44:10
If I give you a dollar and I'm getting back two,
44:13
then it's worth it because you have to think about when you're running your return,
44:18
it is only running that return on that investment.
44:21
But what else are you getting from that, right?
44:25
Again, if I buy one lead, I should be able to get two leads at some point in the future,
44:30
whether it's today, tomorrow, in three years from now, I should be able to get,
44:34
if I do my job right, I should be able to get two free leads.
44:38
So that pay you a dollar, I get two,
44:43
just turned into paid you a dollar, got six.
44:46
Right.
44:48
And it's lifetime value of the customer as well.
44:52
Yeah, I now have that phone number.
44:54
I mean, I'm going to call Bob in four years from now.
44:57
I'd be like, Bob, dude, how's it going?
44:59
You still loving your house?
45:01
Like, you know, right now, you're in that three to five year range where people go,
45:05
man, I really like my house and my stay here forever,
45:08
or you're in that phase where you're like, dude, I got to get out of here.
45:11
And so you fall up with these people and now Bob wants to buy again, but I don't have to pay for Bob.
45:17
Right.
45:18
And then Bob's sister wants to qualify.
45:21
And, you know, it's just a snowball effect in the compounding,
45:25
right, when you do that.
45:27
And if you do your job right, which like we talked about, every Lone Officer did their job right,
45:31
there was a good Lone Officer and they followed up just like a 100% follow-up follow-through.
45:38
We'd all be retired.
45:39
Like, we wouldn't need to be working 20 years in the market in shape.
45:43
We were all super amazing in follow-up.
45:45
Yeah, that's true.
45:46
I think I was trying to look up this quote by Dan Kennedy.
45:49
I don't know if you know that name.
45:51
Long time, actually lives in Arizona.
45:54
Yeah, this phrase, I forget it exactly, but most people are focused on making a sale,
45:57
right, to get it just to make a sale versus you should be focusing on making a sale.
46:01
They get a customer, right?
46:03
And so it's a little bit of a different mindset as you want to acquire a customer
46:06
and obviously capture that future business.
46:08
The referrals and everything else that you're referring to there.
46:11
The lifetime value is there.
46:14
All right.
46:15
I'm keeping an eye on the clock.
46:16
This has been an awesome crash course in lead,
46:19
like generation marketing,
46:21
thing, psychology around that.
46:25
Where, then, I kind of ask you, it's interesting.
46:29
Your number one source of business is realtors,
46:31
yet the way you're structuring that is, you've got this incredible value added
46:36
relationship with these realtors.
46:38
Everybody says, add more value.
46:40
How do I become more valuable?
46:41
Will you clearly, I think, just outline how to be really valuable to real estate agents
46:45
become this lead partner thing?
46:48
And of course, just not to overlook.
46:50
I'm sure you have a great customer experience and process that you've got dialed in.
46:54
You're not saying that's not important either, correct?
46:58
No, actually, I really don't like when people don't have a good experience.
47:04
I mean, my goal is to create an awesome experience with clients, friends, families.
47:12
We have multiple loan officer assistants to help with that experience.
47:15
You're going to get people that are grumpy.
47:17
It just is part of the game.
47:20
But the goal for me is that 99% of everyone has a great experience.
47:27
When they work with our team and wants to come back.
47:30
Again, you're going to get people that are going to be grumpy.
47:32
You know, if you go through my Zillow reviews, I don't collect as many as I used to,
47:35
but I have this one guy that, in the review, he put closed on time,
47:41
cheaper closing costs, cheaper rate than anticipated.
47:45
But he gave me two stars.
47:48
And the reason he gave me two stars is because I called him and he called me and said,
47:53
hey, I really want to close this month.
47:56
I said, well, we're not scheduled to close until the next month.
47:58
But if you want to close this month, get me this, this, and this by tonight.
48:02
And I'll make sure it gets into underwriting and I will get you close this month.
48:05
He goes, well, why do I need to get it in tonight?
48:07
You know, we still got two weeks left for the end of the month.
48:09
I said, well, my wife is about to have a baby.
48:13
So if you want me to make sure that this gets done this month and close early for you,
48:20
then I need you to turn this stuff tonight.
48:21
And I will make sure it personally gets the underwriter and gets done before my wife goes
48:25
into labor. So that way, there's no chance you don't make it this month.
48:30
So on the review, he put, if he had known my wife was pregnant,
48:33
he would have gone with a different loan officer.
48:35
Even though he put closed on time, actually closed early,
48:39
cheaper rate and cheaper closing costs.
48:42
Wow.
48:43
So I share that experience.
48:45
That's one experience.
48:46
But like, you're going to get people that are just grumpy and they are.
48:50
So you can't satisfy everyone, but focusing on having like a 90% or more satisfaction.
48:55
I mean, that's great.
48:56
You're going to get people that are grumpy.
48:58
And another thing is, and this is something huge I train on a lot with real estate agents.
49:05
Clients in a transaction are stressed.
49:10
They, you are dealing with the biggest transaction of their life.
49:14
And so when I talk to clients, I tell them, and I do this to real estate agents too,
49:19
you are going to freak out in this transaction.
49:22
And at some point, you're going to want to call me,
49:24
cuss me out, say, I can't believe your underwriters are asking for all of these documents.
49:28
And I make sure I have this conversation up front, right?
49:30
So when they call, I'm going to be like, hey, you're cashing in one of your freak outs.
49:34
And I tell clients, I say, I have emotionally prepared for you to freak out on me six to ten times
49:41
during the transaction.
49:42
If you get to 11, we might need to call a professional.
49:46
But I've got you for six to ten of those freak outs.
49:49
And they always laugh and they say, well, I'm not going to be that lady that freaks out.
49:52
And then sure enough, you get under contract in five seconds after you get a copy of that contract.
49:57
Jen is calling you saying, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out.
50:02
I don't know if we can do this.
50:03
And I'm like, Jen, are we cashing in one of those freak outs right now?
50:06
And it just like brings it back down because they're like, oh my gosh, you said this was going to happen.
50:12
And what it does is it makes it normalize them freaking out on you.
50:17
Because I mean, as an originator, people freak out all the time.
50:22
And they do.
50:23
And you get your real estate agents that call you like, oh my gosh, Jen's freaking out.
50:26
Like, I'm like, that's normal, man.
50:28
Like, that's just part of the process.
50:31
And so you just have to normalize that it's a freak out.
50:34
And sometimes they're frustrating their mad.
50:36
And you're the only person that they can come to.
50:39
And I want to make sure I'm clear on this point.
50:42
You want to be the only person that they're calling and freaking out on.
50:47
Because if you're not, they're calling another lender or they're calling their mom.
50:51
And they're saying, mom, this is what's going on.
50:53
Well, you should have used my guy, not this guy, right?
50:57
So you want to normalize the freak out and let them know you freak out on me.
51:03
You call me and freak out on me.
51:06
If you need a cuss and swear, you call me and you cuss and swear at me.
51:10
As long as when we're done, you're still inviting me, family barbecue.
51:16
And you got to normalize it.
51:17
Because if you don't, they're calling someone else inventing about it.
51:21
Yeah.
51:22
And you're losing that deal, right?
51:23
100% man.
51:25
I love that because you're kind of setting the stage for expectations,
51:29
you're coaching your client, you're making it okay to call them.
51:33
I could even see you sending a little booklet of like, you know, freak out tickets
51:36
or whatever.
51:37
Like you see those little booklets that people gift.
51:38
You know what I mean?
51:39
That would be so fun.
51:41
Yeah, exactly.
51:42
And you're like, okay, so tear one out of the book.
51:46
That would be really fun.
51:47
All right, man.
51:48
This has been a great conversation.
51:49
I know you're busy.
51:50
So I'm going to give you your day back.
51:51
But for those that want to follow you, connect online on social,
51:55
where do you want to send them?
51:56
Instagram, Facebook, what do you say?
51:58
Instagram's great.
52:00
MrLones.morgage is my handle.
52:03
You can get me on, you know, social media on Facebook as well.
52:06
But Instagram, I usually check it a little bit more.
52:10
Yeah, you're stepping up some reels and all that over there.
52:13
So we are trying.
52:15
I made the commitment this year to go hard on social media.
52:19
Yeah, same here, man.
52:20
Go harder even then before.
52:22
So, man, congratulations.
52:24
I'm building such an amazing business and, you know, the growth that you've had.
52:28
It's as you probably know from growing up around entrepreneurs and business owners
52:31
and your own journey is a lot of that happens right here between the years, you know.
52:36
Yeah, I did a podcast yesterday about mindset only, right?
52:41
And it's totally true that like, you know, because he has,
52:45
we went over like what hurdles have had across the way.
52:48
And there's a hurdle every other day, right?
52:50
You just have to learn to go over them.
52:52
And, you know, we focus on the mindset that it takes to overcome a hurdle
52:55
and keep moving forward rather than just keep, you know, in your stance.
52:59
Because lots of people can go like, oh, I got to quit.
53:02
You know, I can't do this.
53:04
Like, I mean, 2016 for me, I was broke and I didn't have any money.
53:08
And I could quit and done something else.
53:11
And I didn't.
53:12
I found a way to overcome the current hurdle.
53:14
I didn't have any money.
53:14
I borrowed against my truck and, you know, over came that hurdle.
53:17
And then I continued to work my butt off to try and, you know,
53:20
get it, make my dollars last because I had to pay the truck title off, you know.
53:25
But it is, it is very much a mindset thing, you know, working and building a business up.
53:31
And it's, it's not that hard.
53:35
It's harder to overcome a hurdle than it is to build a successful business.
53:38
Because the successful business comes from overcoming hurdles.
53:41
You can overcome a hurdle.
53:43
You can, you can build something great.
53:45
Right on.
53:46
Love that.
53:47
All right, man, we're going to put links to your Instagram and the show notes
53:50
and your website and all that for people who want to reach out to you.
53:53
Thank you so much.
53:54
I appreciate it.
53:55
And listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode.
53:57
Leave us a review or share with somebody else.
53:59
And I will see you on the next one by for now.
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