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Glinda the Good? · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Tolerators. We're here again with Julia Washington from Pop Culture
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Makes Me Jealous, Jelly Pop's book Club and her amazing
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: world renowned business pros and glow dramatic pause for effect
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to talk about what's this? I'm holding space for Wicked again.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: They got to do two movies, so I get to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: do either bonus content or a whole different episode on it,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: or I get to talk to you as many people
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: as I want to about it until Cynthia, Arianna and
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Bailey call me and tell me not to and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: they're like nambling and stuff. We're done. Your space is over.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Julia is going to be here to talk to me
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: specifically about Glinda the Good question Mark on purpose. Julia,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: thank you for being here to talk to me about
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: a white woman and maybe not all white women. I'm
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: leaving it in our cackles, our witchy cackles, our I
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: am so pleased to be here to discuss Glinda the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Good question Mark question mark, Glinda, Glinda, Glinda, Glinda the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: brand Good. Already, y'all.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: The rebrand though, rebrand Julia, before we go into almost
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: threw over the seats of the movie theater.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Go ahead, before we jump into Filinda personally, would you
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: please explain to the listeners what your personal relationship with
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Wicked was before the movie dropped.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I had never seen the stage show.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, because listen, I gotta drive two hours to
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: get to Broadway tours three if I decided to take
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: public transportation. And our theater here is trying real hard,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: but they've never brought Wicked.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: High School hasn't done it.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: There's no drama teacher brave enough in this town. But
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I did know that the books existed, and I do.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I have not read them because I really loved the
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz book. Yeah, originally, and when I first
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: read the Wizard of Oz, because you know, we all
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: grew up with the Wizard of Oz the movie with
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Judy Garland, because that came out in nineteen thirty nine,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: and it's just it's you don't have generations now who
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: have lived without it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Right. It used to play every year on Thanksgiving?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then we have a historic theater that
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: opened in nineteen thirty four. So one of their things
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: that they like to do is to bring older movies
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like this to the big screen. So I did get
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: to see it on the big screen one year. We
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: took my best friend and her daughter and it was
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: really cool to see it on the big screen because
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that was not an experience any of us would have had.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: But when I read the book, I was like, I
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: need a mini series because this book is so much
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: more rich than the movie ever could be no disrespect
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: to the team who did The Wizard of Oz in
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine. We now know all of the horrific
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: truths about Judy Garland and all the things that they
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: did to her. But like, there's just so much. There's
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: just so much that book. There's so much social commentary.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: You know, when people want to say things like reading
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: isn't political, it's like, I'm sorry, what are you reading?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Also, I did say this on the Chris the Rosa
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: episode that this is being partnered with the Christrosip portion
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: of this conversation, because I'm not sure if this is
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: fact or something I made up, didn't it all? Or
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: is this just something that Agatha Patty Lapone was mad
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: about during Agatha All along? The Wicked Witch of the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: West is how we got most of our modern day
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: at least characteristics of witches. Am I correct? Like they
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: were never green until the Wizard of Oz. They never
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: really wore pointing hats until the Like the whole classic
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Halloween witch look came from the movie adaptation of the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of older pictorials, yeah, you know,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: representation like pictures, drawings and what have you, and I'm
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: coming up with not. I'm not coming up with anything
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: where they look like our Wicked Witch of the West.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I'm convinced that I read this somewhere.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Because if you think about even like in the Salem
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: witch trial and all accusations back then, no one's wearing
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: a hat.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: No, and the Crucible they're wearing Pilgrim near well yeah, yeah,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: but like even when even with practical magic, I mean yes,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: in the movie, like in the current part, but when
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you go back to the sixteen hundreds and it's the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: first Owens woman, like she's still her hair's flowing and down,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: like there's no yeah. Yeah. Another, thank you for sharing
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: your background with Wicked, which is mostly the Wizard of Oz.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Had you listened to the soundtrack or understood the story
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: before you went to see Wicked? Yes, Okay, people who
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: went in blind, I don't understand. I'm like, it's a
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: three hour movie, and you went, I hope I like this.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't do that with Oppenheimer.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And that's that's it's a fascinating study of people who
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: don't have any tap into pop culture because the musical
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: has been around for what twenty plus years? Like how
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: do you avoid? How do you avoid it? Because even
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I knew like Christian and maybe because we watched the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Tony Awards over here, so it was just kind of
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: they're like because you know, they always do like a
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: with the Tony Awards. They always do like a snippet
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: from all the shows that are no.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Whatever, and now I can't remember.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: But it's just like like I always knew Kristin Jenna
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: with was Linda, Like I always knew Dina Menzel wash
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: but you know what I mean, It's just.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I don't know. So because I went into
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: my background, I'm Wicked, which I have read the book
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: because I was horny as a young teen and I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: heard that there were munchkin orgies and I was like,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I want to read about that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Well, because you know, Christians are very upset about the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Wicked book, So I think that has a lot to
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: do with why I haven't read them because they were
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: released in the mid nineties.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Right, No, it was oh maybe, yeah, because I read
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: it because I went and saw the stage production as
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: a teen.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen ninety five. So Wicked was published in ninety
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: ninety five, So tracks that it wouldn't have been brought
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: into my house because nineteen ninety five we were steep
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: steep in that Christian church.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: One of my I'll give you a personal connection with
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz. The first time that I ever
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: watched The Wizard of Oz as a child, it was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: at my grandma's house and my uncle lived with my grandma.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And he looked at me and like a white man
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: who just loves to take credit for something he's never
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: even probably looked at. He went, you know when it
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: goes from black and white to color, I did that
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: with the Crayola crayons that you color with every day.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: He goes, why do men feel like they need to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: say shit like that?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: And I just like looked at him. He's like I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: did with those very crayons that you were you see
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and like mine think that they're so funny. I just
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: don't understand they're just let me enjoy munchkin Land, So
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: that's my connection to the Wizard of Oz. But when
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: you went and saw Wicked, you had what I would describe.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, I had an emotional reaction to I cried
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the entire movie, But you had a specific emotional reaction
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to Glinda, and uh and it had nothing to do
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: with her casting, Like, I don't think this was an
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Ariana problem. This was a Glinda problem. And would you
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like to give an overview of.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: What that was my immediate reaction. So the whole movie, right,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Glinda's like, I'm the most perfect girl in the world.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I did everything. I'm going to be the teachers, but
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so talented. I can't wait to be a witch.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And then when she realizes that somebody who doesn't fit
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the bill is better than her, and she's mad and
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: turns everyone against her. And then when she's like, oh, actually,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna be her friend so I can
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: get closer to what I want by being her friend,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and then chooses to walk away from her when she's like, well,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I could pick you, or I could pick the people
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to shove my nose up their ass
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: this whole time. Yeah, and I thought, wow, that is
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: a lot, this is a little too real. I have
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: had that happen in my real life from white women,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: specifically multiple times too. In fact that I can that
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: still haunt me to this day that I need to
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: go to therapy over and I walked at in so
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: while everyone's weeping during Defying Gravity, I'm crying because I'm like,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: when will white women stop?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: White women right in, when will you stop?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Because the whole time, the whole time, I was like,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: we all know Glinda's bad, right, Like she's just doing
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: whatever she can to get cozied up to the Wizard
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and Miss Morble, and like she doesn't care about Alphaba.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: She never once said I'm going to become a better person.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: She just said, yeah, let's be friends. It's cool. She
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: never said she was going to do the work. She
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: never said she was going to be somebody that Alphaba
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: could trust. She just played the part beautifully. So then
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: when Alphabe did realize she could trust her because of
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: these tiny little actions. So rather than staying true to
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: her gut, poor Alphaba, because Elphie just wanted friends because
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: she's never had friends, because she's been rejected her whole
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: life because her dad is mean and her sister was
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: the favored girl. And here's ALFI just trying to, like,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I just want to I just want to know what
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: it's like to be included. Yeah, and then here's Glinda
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: who's just like, I don't want you to be included
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: because I'm intimidated by you. And then when she does
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: include her, it's only to gain access to what Alphaba
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: has access to.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Now, I was like, if this isn't a metaphor for
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: black women everywhere, or women of minority right, minority women everywhere,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: because I'm sure there are women who aren't just black
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: who feel this way.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like, when you break it down that way,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I think about my fat girl trauma, like like never
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: being the pretty friend and like having like just having
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: some real pretty privileged friends who were like, well, I'll
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: never have the personality that Nadley has and who could,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and people really like Nabley and they've maybe come to
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: terms with me being boring and just kind of always
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: being like a lafu sidekick to some better looking girl
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to the point where I mean I talked about this
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: on the Chris episode two, but furing one of my
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: shifts a McDonald's. I got to sing, what is this
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: feeling with my pretty girl nemesis who used to be
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: my best friend and then dated the very guy I
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: had any hopes of dating, because why wouldn't they Because
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't she be entitled to anything and everything I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: could ever want? And there is something that's really interesting
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: that the queer community is doing with Glinda, where they're like,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: when I watched Glinda, I see like a self hating
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: queer woman.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And Arianna and Kristen Arianna came out with the first
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and Kristin Chennawick said, you know what, I always thought
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that a little bit too, but Arianna said she was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: like I was playing Glinda as a closeted woman, like
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: there was a little bit about her that was closeted.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: And Renee Rapp did the same thing with Regina George
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and it completely flips so like, why, yes, girls gotta
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: be mean if it's not because you hate yourself because
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: of the one way that you are going to be othered? Right?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Because why out?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, I can't believe that part of
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Wicked TikTok didn't show up in my FYP considering how
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: much I consumed, especially but also not surprise because a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: lot of what I consumed about Wicked was Jonathan Bailey
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and the sides and then go back to Australia when
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: it's cold here and be in suits.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: But it's okay.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But that actually kind of I think also contributes to
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying because a lot of these a lot
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: of and I'm making some generalizations here, so not everyone's
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: gonna fit, but when you look at the broader picture
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and you are sort of trying to create these like
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: general ideas of what is happening, there is a lot
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: of very interesting moments within white women community where self
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: hate is part of it because it's like and wherever
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that self hate stems from, right, Like, maybe it is
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: being closeted, maybe it is not being it's something about
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: not being able to self actualize fully, right, because we
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: see that a lot still, Like we're like like with
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: the election, like why did so many white women still
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: vote in that way? And it's like it doesn't matter
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: if you spout some sort of feminist something, Yeah, there's
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: still a point about your life that reaffirms patriarchy and inequalities,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and there's something that you are fearing and trying to
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: change that. Whether it's because you recognize that the system
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: isn't designed for women to be single. I'm living proof.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I've tried so hard to like be a wealthy woman,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: hard times, so hard I've had I did you know you?
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: And I've had this conversation. We've done all the things
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: we were told to do, but yet it still didn't
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: work for us because we didn't get the golden ticket
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: to be the one girl allowed at the table for
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: that right. Because the system isn't designed for women to
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: be successful, and all the women who do become successful,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: they're either they do it as an act of defiance,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: and you're just like, oh, somehow you have to do
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: deep analysis on figuring it out. And I'm gonna broadly
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: say probably eighty percent of the time there was a
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: dude who opened the door for them, and then the
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: women who had women opening the doors for them don't
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: get the same kind of a praise and attention, which
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: is infuriating, But it makes sense that there would be
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: some sort of self hate towards your behaviors actions of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: other people, and we see that. We see that in legislation,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: like our favorite example, the RNC crashing grinder. Yeah, but
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: yet the Republican Party is guilty of introducing over four
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: hundred pieces of legislation that are anti LGBTQ. So your
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: self hate is that you have some sort of queerness
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: within you and you're denying it, right.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: And you're like, if it's illegal, I never have to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: face this.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Which is not true.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Which is not true. And my running joke about the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Wicked movie is I really thought that I because I've
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: seen Wicked twice. I've listened to I read the book,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I've listened to the soundtrack so many times. You've seen
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: it on stage twice. I've seen it on stage.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Girl, I know you've seen the movie more than that.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I've seen the movie three times, and I could not
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: be done seeing it, Like, honestly, but I started to
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: cry from the very first No one mourns the Wicked
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: because I think part of the ugly truth of my
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: current situation and my current life is I've gotten over
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: enough of my factoral trauma to also be like, oh,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: but now my otherness and my wickedness comes from the extremity,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the extremness that I've gone to to decenter men any
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: world that's built for men and in a world where
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it pays to partner with men and befriend men and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: play their game and play their system. And there is, oh,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: there is like I don't even know how to praise this,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: but when like when it's like no one warns the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: wicked and goodness knows the wicked lives are lonely? Like
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: how often have I used the word low to describe
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: how this journey has made me feel. I've met so
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: many people through the podcast and my decentering patriarchy, misogyny,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: capitalism and all of it, and I've met people with
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the same beliefs, but at the end of the day,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: when they don't go to the defying gravity lengths that
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to go to, like the four B movement,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: or to tailor my comedy towards making fun of misogyny
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: instead of making tit and dick jokes because I know
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: they sell. Like then, I'm mad and I'm lonely and
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm on a broom by myself.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that you say that too, because you know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the women that I know that are married and unhappy
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: are also lonely. So it's like pick your poison, are
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: you going to be alone lonely protecting your peace, or
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: are you going to live in an environment where you
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: still just don't feel like you can be you? Because
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it's easier. I'm using easier air quotes because that income.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Because and I've you know, complained about this to you
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: all the time, Like what, I hate taking business advice
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: from married women because your risks aren't the same as mine,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: because I don't have a husband who's providing health insurance
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: for me and paying and has income coming in. So
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: that way, I can take big financial risks with the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: money that I earn. Like I earned a lot of
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: money in November, none of it is left because I
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: have bills to pay and I have a kid in college,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So like I would have loved to save all that money,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: but I have to live off of what I earn.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Every single day you buy for me on a Tuesday,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I'm probably using that money to pay for electricity, groceries,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: putting gas in my car. Like it's not the same.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And the thing is is for I think, and I'm
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: not speaking for you, but we've been friends long enough
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: that I feel like this will like you fall into
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: this as well. We've accepted the fact that we'd rather
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: be alone and it be okay because we know that
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: we can have live the lives that we want that
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: are full, then be living in a situation or partnered
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: in a situation that's gonna make us have to suppress
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: parts of ourselves that we find delightful.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's gonna be really interesting next
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: year when I have you back to talk about Glinda
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the Good again and in regards to part two, mostly
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: because I know that you haven't seen it visually, right,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: but like Glinda's gonna fuck around and then find out,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and so that really does tighten about how like even
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: it's not even that I envy the women who quote
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: unquote have it easier because they sided with patriarchy, misogyny,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: mediocre husbands, you know, dating men who can't remember their
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: birthday or whatever, because I know that they're lonely too.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: It's like, I like, al of a assume that if
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: we stopped seeking their validation, and if we stop seeking
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: power in the ways that they've set up their own
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: power or in partnership with them, that we too would
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: be unlimited because we would have created I just believe
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: that women would create a better system no cap and I.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Think that it's not just you thinking that there I,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: if memory serves, and I'm not an economists, there is
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: data out there that supports that women who run Fortune
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: five hundred companies, you know, their companies perform better.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: A lot of women leaders do a lot better.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I have a question for you.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with who Francesca Ramsey is?
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I am? I am a follower of Francisca Ramsey. I've
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: seen uh oh no, the is it the Jaguary or
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the Tigers Leopards?
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: No?
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I thought the leopards would eat mysay.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is the most brilliant song ever, and
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: it's so fitting because there are these moments. So like,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you know, we talk about this a lot, or I
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: talk about this a lot with my friend groups that
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: are you know, colorful and queer. My straight white friends
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: don't get it. We about proximity to whiteness and how
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: there's this belief that proximity to whiteness will save you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: when these things happen. But what we see over and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: over and over again is that it actually doesn't protect you.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Turns out you're the first in line for the firing
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: squad because like the concept of the good quote negro
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is not real, like it's not a safety net. And
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: so what's brilliant about Francesca writing that song is that
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: now we have a literal anthem, so when something happens.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: We can be like, well, oh my gosh, it's almost
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: like you got into bed with a leopard.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, But the other part of that song that's so
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: brilliant is like people genuinely believe, genuinely believe that if
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: they sidle up to patriarchy and whiteness, nothing bad will
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: ever happen to them. And maybe for some that is
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: true because they keep a low enough profile to live
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: within those systems to not be harmed. But it's the
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: harm is in a different way, right, the harm is
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: now to you in a different way, versus the blatancy
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: of the harm when when they decide to like line
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: them all up and shoot them all down.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: And I think, like I think, my biggest emotional release
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: when it comes to defying gravity is like in the
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: back of my mind, it's like I didn't even ask
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: fellow white women for much like you know what I'm saying,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't ask you to partake in the four
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: B movement I didn't ask you to get divorced. I
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: didn't ask you to shun men to revitalize how you
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: raise suns. I didn't even ask you to read a book.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I asked you to not vote for a rapist on
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: a ballot, and you couldn't bring yourself to do it
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: because you had to have dinner that night with your homophobic, racist,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: bigoted husband who is probably doing a lot of things subtly, subconsciously,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: purposefully to keep you reliant on him. And this was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: one way you could have been like, and maybe this
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: will have nothing to do with me, but I'm not
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: going to vote for the rapist right right, because.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all the women who got on TikTok
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: was like, egg shouldn't be, you know, as expensive as
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: they are, and that's why I voted for him. And
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: like I had somebody flat out tell me, well, you
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: know that our Christmas Street costs one hundred and thirty
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: dollars this year because they had to have two people
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: in the truck driving all the trees from the farm
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to the location to buy. And you know, and and
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: so you know, when he wins, gas is gonna go down,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and labor costs are gonna go down, and I'm just
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: like for who, But also like truck drivers need to
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: have protections, like yes, you would you business companies would
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: allow truck drivers to drive fifteen hour shifts, which we
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: know Triple A has done studies that have shown you
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: should take breaks if you're gonna do a long haul
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: drive like it, the more tired you are, there's no difference.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: You might as well be drunk because there's no difference
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: in terms of safety. So it's like, like some of
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: the things that they're that are being considered logical coming
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: from the side that voted for him, it's like, no,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: but let's actually talk about that. Like, I know, I'm
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: not an economist. I don't understand what you're saying. And
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: it's not because I'm not an economist, it's because it
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't actually make sense.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Well, And do you know what's so stupid about it?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: It's t that you're gonna have in your house for
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: a month. If you really cared that it was one
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: hundred and thirty dollars and the price went up, you
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: would have bought the sixty dollars one for Michaels that
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you can use for the rest of your life and it's.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Just so interesting, like this whole concept of like oh God,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: and my favorite part is he's backpedaling on you know, well,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think I can bring prices down, which is
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: whatever we all knew that was coming. I mean, we
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: all knew that was coming. People on TikTok are surprised.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: But I think the other part of it too, for me,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: is like sometimes I have to make decisions that aren't
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: gonna be good for just me, and like there is
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: no like the individualism that exists with folks who maybe
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: chose to vote in that way. You know, have you said, okay,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: so have you seen that TikTok of the woman who
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: is like black women watching the defying gravity and and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: then Jewish women watching the bying.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Gratity surprised you haven't got into Glinda's a closeted queer
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: looking honestly, and then like white women not getting it,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: And I'm just like, yeah, because it is very Here's
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I don't understand why white women can't figure out howtomobilize.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I don't, Julia. I don't know.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: They would actually be able to get shit done because
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: the way my white female friends get shit done otherwise
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, collectively, do that for the all intersections
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of people who identify as women.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: And what floors me is if white women started to mobilize,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: we would have days, weeks, months, if not years before
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: white men even started to notice, because white men are
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: so comfortable that they never question anything about their own surroundings.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I tried to watch Bad Mom's Christmas last night.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: First of all, didn't need to be two hours. I
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: literally bailed at an hour and a half.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Because it's like, I've seen enough.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: But this whole concept of like invisible labor, and I'm
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: not downgrading any of this what and maybe I'm missing
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the message of Bad Mom's Christmas. But one of the
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: things that I took away this time versus seven years
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: ago when it first came out, or when it first
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: came out in twenty seventeen.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Was.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: How like Mila Kunez's character, Amy is very much like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: we are doing this to ourselves and we don't have to.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yes, that's absolutely correct, and then her
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: mom comes in and it's just like, yes, you do
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: have to. And then the children are like, yeah, we're
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: cool with the casual Christmas, but also we love Grandma, like,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: please let us keep Grandma, And it's like, but Grandma's
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: gonna be extra so we have to find out. But like,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: like so many women are like, no, but I have
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to create magic for my children, And I'm like, but
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: do we know?
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Do we though? Because if we're going to establish unrealistic expectations,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: it should be that men should do better well. And also,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: like me, the magic always ends with you cursing and
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: crying at those children.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And then when your kids become adults, because I'm currently
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: experiencing this in adulthood, you openly admit how actually you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: hated doing all of that stuff, and then now your
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: kids have to grapple with the fact that, like, wait
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: a minute, what about my childhood.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Is a lie? And it turns out all of it
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: so it's like, what is it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: No one's thinking about the long term, and I think
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to tie it back to Wicked, that's kind of the same, right,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Like Glinda was thinking about the long term for her
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: own benefit and gain, versus Alphabet, who's like, I'm just
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: trying to make the world better. I have skills and
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: talents that no one recognized except for missus Marble, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: that's wild and then and then to realize that fucking
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: snake's oil salesman, and like just the whole, like the
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: deconstruction of like I thought the root of humanity was good,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: and then to learn from Alphabe's person and then to
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: learn that it's not actually and that I've been used
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: and now I'm being deemed bad because I stood up,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: and not because it was morally right or anything, but
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: because my character is to speak. I've never known any
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: other way other than to say, like, wait.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: What because at the at the very base of it.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And again, and I always feel this way as like
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: a radicalized white woman. I'm like, at the end of
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the day, my most radical viewpoint, if I'm Alphaba, is
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that animals should continue to get to speak like that's it. Yeah,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Like that's as radical as it gets it. And if
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the Wizard had been on board with that, the Wizard
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, listen, this has all gotten out of hand.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Like I got to oz. They watched me do some
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: up close magic. They were like a wizard, they built this.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: It wasn't even real magic, No, it was up close
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: hand magic. Yeah, old magicians at kids parties got it. Okay.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: When he literally remember I grew up in a Christian environment.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Okay to see magicians, but no, they weren't allowed. When
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: he pulled the coin out of her ear, I literally
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: whispered to myself when I was seeing the movie by myself,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: not up close magic.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I guess I didn't understand that that's
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: what that was because my grandpa used to always give
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: us quarters and he would pull them out of our ears.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: And she's like, Oh, that's so funny. It's a grandpa trick. Yeah,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: most magicians start with grandpa tricks. Oh my god, this
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: wizard crashes into oz because of reasons Julia read the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: book and he starts doing like a close magic and
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, wizard, and then he's and then they
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: they build him this really nice house in town and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I get it, like you're like, this is really nice.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's too bad. It's all a scam. And again, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time when it comes
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to our villains, where it's like, when were you just
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: kind of of the douf and then all of a
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: sudden it's snowballed like and Glinda, I think mirrors that too.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: When it was like, when were you just kind of
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: like a shallow girl who had the world at your
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: fingertips and then all of a sudden it got out
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: of your hand, like.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I also think. But I think for me, the first
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: little divot in her, in her little glass bubble, was
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: when missus Marble was like, yeah, I'm not into.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was like what yeah in the meaning,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: but I am exactly what you need.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And watching and watching pick Me Girls not Get picked.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Is a show. It's a show she had to lay down,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: And so I always think about that when it comes
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: to the Wizard, where it's like, Okay, I understand how
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: you were kind of just a guy, Like you were
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: just a guy at the beginning of the day, and
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: then you were like a guy who had like three
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: tricks that probably all involved scarves or coins, and people
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: really thought that you were something. And then you looked
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: around and you're like, it's not great here. So then
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: you became president exact it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: It's really easy to trick people who don't have an education, who.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Are in a scarcity mindset. Because the drought happened, it
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: was a scarcity thing, and we have seen this happen before,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and so I understand how it all became you became
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a guy that became the face of OZ and you
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: had to build a big robot of yourself that was scary. Like,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I understand where we got here. I don't understand why
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: your pivot. And this is where I blame this, Marrable.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why your pivot was it. I will
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: surround myself with smart people and we will figure out
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: all of the ways to do the right thing, which
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I think is what AOC keeps wishing Congress would do.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: We do, Yeah, there's too many men in Congress for
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that to happen. Like I think AOC is like, what
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: if we just surrounded ourselves with smart people and then
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: did the right thing? But instead he got mixed up
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: with Marrable and she was like, we could just keep
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: high rolling this and be the only people who are
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: doing well. And it's like and at the end of
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the day, it's like for what Yeah, yeah, your own
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: friend is most marvel and then all of these monkeys
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: that reason, you know, can I just say, like the
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: gonna be a literal bitch.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: The way that Cynthia Rivo plays the realization that she
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: just like harmed these monkeys unintentionally, that also got me
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: really emotional because again, she's just trying to make sure
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: the animals can continue to have quality of life. She
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: knows they're not the bad guy, she knows they're not
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: the problem, and then to inflict such pain. But then
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: when they all sort of in the end.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Side with her, I was like, that's that's the right answer,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: because she had the correct response to accidentally hurting you.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Because also like, at the end of the day, we're
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: all human. Even if you're as radicalized and as well
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: meaning as you can be, there will be a chance
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that you do harm. I make a lot of jokes
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: before I think about what I'm about to say, and
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: there have been a couple of instances where a gen
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Zer has had to go and are we all okay
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: that namily made jokes about the pills that the frat
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: boys like to hand out, And I'm like, what, we're
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: not okay with making fun of the frat boys and
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: their pills. I get real indignant about it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I do wonder though about origin stories for villains and
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: how people might be maybe misinterpreting them.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, like this whole like every villain has a was
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: just a boy whose dad was mean to him one time,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and then got a better looking brother and that's how
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: we got Scar and the Hyena regime.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that, and then like in it ends with
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: us because you know, I did end up watching the
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: movie because I can't resist justin Baldoni's face and like
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: his like his origin story is like he's in pain
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: because you know, he's the reason why his sibling is
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: dead from childhood and he's got all this unresolved issues
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: with it, you know, and you're just like cool, I
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: also have some really horrible things that have happened in
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: my life and.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I show didn't manage to turn it into violence.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Against other people, and through the grace of therapy, friends
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: saying things like hmm, you know that's actually not how
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: we should treat each other, Like what you went through
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: is bad, and like other things and just somebody taking
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: a moment to be like, I am so sorry that
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: happened to you, Like how are you dealing with that?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Versus I don't give a shit what you're going through.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: We all have pain, figure it out. And it's just
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: like like there's gotta be a marriage between kid gloves
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: and harsh responses because I think, I think in I
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: think with Alphaba that was her realizations of like like
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: she did, she had childhood trauma, Like her dad didn't
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: like her, you know, he prioritized what we assume to
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: be his natural daughter. I don't know if that's true.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I'm just making an assumption that she like that. He
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't like Alphaba, but this one is
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: actually mine when it came to Nessa. And like Alphaba
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: did not necessarily create the situation, she didn't create the situation.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: The situation created her. Literally, the situation created her because
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: they all said, hey, there's this green hoe on a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: broom and she's the bad guy, versus earlier in the
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: movie when you're like, Wow, your dad is garbage to you,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: but yet you're still a kind and generous and caring
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: person who has boundaries because she was not about Glinda
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: in the beginning.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I think also, like it all boils down to that
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: meme that people love to send me, where it's like
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: a woman on Christmas Eve could have a Novari insist first,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: coupled with a migraine, coupled with her husband leaving her
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: for the secretary, coupled with her mom dying, and on
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Christmas Day, those kids are going to have the Christmas
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: that they've always had and everything's going to be fine,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and she almost bled out to do it. But a
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: man's father was mean to him one time when he
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: was eleven, and now the world has to burn. Like
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: he's hurt everyone he's ever talked to, Like he voted
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: for Trump because he's like this guy gets it and
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: we're all punished because of it. And oh my god,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: what did I do? I just likened this to a guy?
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Who was the guy? I was like, oh it was
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: It was Derek Shepherd. It was Derek Shepherd from Grace Anatomy. Oh, okay,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you know I don't know this reference. I know you don't.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I know you don't know this reference. But I was like,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: who was the guy? Derek Shepherd made choices and he
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: chose Addison instead of Meredith and then punished us for
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: two seasons when Meredith did things like moved on and
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: no longer cared about how his day was. And it's like, hey, Derek,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Meredith didn't wake up and go you should choose Adison.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Meredith actually cried and begged you to pick her. And
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: is this the pick me? Choose me? Love yes, okay,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: choose me, love me when I rewatched it this time,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I said it right there with her. I'm like, Meredith,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: this is all I'm asking women to do. Yeah, hit
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: yourselves and and punished because it's like it I as
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: you know. The biggest frustration for me this election is
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that I keep ending up on tiktoks where women are
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: telling me how'd you think that election was going to go?
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: We abandoned men, And I was like, that's really strong
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: language for people who are going to make it out
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: of this. Okay, we abandoned men. There's a loneliness, pandemn
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: epidemic in men. The men are not okay. It's a
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: lot of their own choices, and I don't understand. I
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: don't know anymore how to get them to care about
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: other people. I don't. I could tell the I could
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: tell men who have supposedly cared for me my entire life, Hey,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: if you elect the rapist, I could die. A lot
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: of people I know are no longer safe. I won't
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: have access to healthcare. You keep begging me to have
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: health insurance. It's not going to happen under this dude.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, they'll be like,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I love you so much and then vote for that OPA.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: I guess so I have two things that I want
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to comment on. I'm going to work my way from
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: this what you said, and then back to something else
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: you said.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how we've abandoned men and how to
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: interpret that without it being some version of women gaining
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: independence and autonomy.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Because that's what it is. Every time people are like,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: we've abandoned men, We've fill in niced them, We've made
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: them believe that they're the problem, because they're the problem.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Because here's the thing, we all know. The patriarchy is
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: actually bad for everybody because the amount of insane pressure
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: to be the breadwinner of the family. I've felt that before,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I feel that all the time. Again, I'm also not
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: making other people's lives hell, because it's not. So there's that,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: but there's also a balance in there too, right, Like
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: you can care for men but still have an equitable relationship.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: This all comes down to communication and people not talking
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: about what their expectations are in marriage because like what
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: we see represented in pop culture, like if I were
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: to enter into a relationship that resembled what I grew
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: up watching, fuck no, absolutely not absolutely one hundred percent
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: not because here's what I don't want. I don't want
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: to be thrown under the bus. We are a united
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: front if you're my partner, we are a united front
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: on things. We don't have to agree, but we have
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: to agree on how we are going to present in
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: this issue. Because if I stand up for myself and
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: you're in your responses is like, yeah, it's a pain
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: in the ass.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: She's like that all the time.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: We're not suited for each other there and that's the
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: bare minimum the bear and like, and there's like a
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: way that you can, like, you know, have expectations in
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: a relationship, like compromises a thing, but not so much
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: so that I have to sacrifice entirely who I am.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I yeah, we need to.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Because as you know, the younger men who we thought
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: had hope, they voted in large numbers for Trump too.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, because Andrew Tate and Jeff
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Bezos and Joe Rogan all cater to the inner insult,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I guess that resides in all of them.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: But it's not just them. They are also you know,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: the quote machine is also finding very pretty female conduits
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: to speak to these boys as well.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: A rat and like it's all about alpha and being
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: macha and blah blah blah blah blah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: And that's so toxic because not all men want to
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: be alpha and macho. They just want to exist as well.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So then anyway, right, and by the way, back to
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: why the patriarchy is bad for everybody.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: The men who are truly allies and not the men
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: who want me to believe that their allies. So they
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: get me in bed because there's a difference. If I
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: looked at them and went, can you believe that this
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: lady is saying that men were abandoned and that's why
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: we lost the election, they'd be like, what the fuck again?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: It's centering men into a problem that is affecting me
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: that they themselves caused. Why do I have to baby
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: them through the problem that they themselves caused? Derek Shepherd
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: way in, Yeah, yeah, and so I'll go for it
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: because you had two points.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I was gonna say the other thing, the
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: childhood pain becoming personality. There's a difference between pain and
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: little TA trauma and big TA trauma. And when you
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: were talking about you know, like the whole the one
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: time I had a parent yell at me and be
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: mean to me. And now I'm an awful and this
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: explains why I'm awful to everybody.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: One of my.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Relationship friendships that fell apart her childhood trauma, and I
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: don't know what tea it is because I don't know
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: the extent of it was because her parents got a divorce.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: With that said, even though divorce wasn't promoted as being
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: normalized in my home, my parents are married for fifty
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: three years. Both my grandparents remained married until death, Like
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: this is, you know, divorce is not a common practice
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: in my family. However, I am an unwet single mother.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: But the point being, I still understood divorce as being
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: a thing that happens because everybody had divorce friends, Like
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: we were not immune to having divorced friends. We were
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: not you know, the statistics or whatever. And so the
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: way that even in our late adolescent's early adulthood, even
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: through starting to be mid thirties, the way this person
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: held on to her parents' divorce is being a source
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: of pain for her all these years later. It got
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: to the point where it's just like you have to
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: go to therapy. I can't talk about this anymore. You
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: have to go to therapy. We've been talking about this
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: for twenty years. You have to go to therapy, Like, like,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: if this is the reason why you're constantly in pain
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: and making relationship decisions based on this route, you.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Have to go to therapy. You just have to go
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: to therapy.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Because it's like, I don't know what your parents put
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: you through. Living with this for that long without having
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: any sort of like treatment for it is not okay.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think what I get frustrated with is.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: And and here's the thing I already I know for
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: a fact there was no child neglect, there was no
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: physical abuse. There's probably emotional abuse our parents, our parents parents,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: There's no way as a parent you get away with
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: not accidentally or intentional, Like intentional emotional abuse is one thing,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: But there are some things where you're just like, fuck,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I think that might have been emotional abuse. And I
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I'm so like, I'm guilt, you know what I mean,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Like you inflict pain. You might stop generational traumas in
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: some way, but you create traumas in others, because that's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: just what happens. But what I'm saying is is like
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: there's a point where it's just like this could have
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: not that I'm trying to give a hierarchy of pain.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: As you get older, you start to become like a
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: moment of like, listen, I don't want to trivialize what
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: you've been through. I also need you to know that
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: genocide is real and that is not your childhood.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: So go and get there right well. And I think
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that's what prustrates me the most is when people come
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: to me and these are all very valid concerns that
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: drive me to a point of madness every day where
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, men and their emotional intelligence and they
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: weren't brought up to care about their emotional intelligence or
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: their montal well being or whatever. And it's like, yes,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: but within the system they themselves chose, because I don't
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: see a lot of them.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't there that video floating around where the guy
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: was like, men, you know we struggle to and dinnade.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: We're the ones that go to war, We're the ones
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: that do this, We're the ones that do that. And
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: then the count the person a woman counters with and
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: who made that system?
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Who made that system?
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: And the guy was like, oh, the answers, like you
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: could clearly see him be like realized, Oh, the answer
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: is men. But if I say that out loud, improving
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: her point, and that negates my point.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Correct. There's a difference between the hurt that comes from
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: your choices and the hurt that's inflicted upon you due
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: to your otherness, oppression, or the system that is designed
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: to hurt you. Yeah, or keep you down or keep
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: you lonely. Yeah, And I don't see and even just
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: from it ends with us, mister positive masculinity himself, mister
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: breaking barriers and toxic masculinity left and right. I don't
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: trust him. I did for a little bit, and then
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: and then the it ends with this movie happened and
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, ah, not you not, I don't trust you.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I don't see enough of them genuinely doing going. If
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: the system hurts women and children, and we've just decided
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: that we're okay with that, if the system hurts people
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: of color in the queer community, and we've just decided
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: we're okay with that, do we at least get to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the point where we also care that the system hurts
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: us and now we're going to change it, and we're
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: going to see it with the UHC qpewing. I don't
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: know how to say it on a podcast where all
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: of a sudden there will be gun regulation because it
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: took one guy to go down. I don't think there
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: will be. Yeah, there won't, There won't be.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: There needs there needs to be more for PP regulations
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: to happen in this country. More people in the privileged
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: class would have to be victimized because what was it,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: December fifteenth? The date could be wrong, December fifteenth. There
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: was a school shooting a week before this winter break starts.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: And the only reason why I knew about it was
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: because of TikTok. I did not know where it was.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: I did Wisconsin. I did not see it. I saw
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: it on TikTok before I saw any news outlet reporting
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: about it. And I'm just like, no, So more people
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: of the privileged class are going to have to be
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: victimized before anybody is going to make a decision because
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: they are because it's the privileged class who controls the
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: purse rings of who gets elected. Oh no, I'm just.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Downting like a weirdo. But the point is, like that
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: is what happens tho. So I think my point is
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: is we have to start being realistic with who we're
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: working with, and we're working with people who are willing
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to end the lives of their own to feel more
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: comfortable at the end of the day, which is what
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: the Wizard is doing, which is I don't know if
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Glinda knows she's signing up for.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: That, like, but see, and that's where that's where we're different.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I do think she knows. That's what she thinks.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: And I wish that more people saw the Wicked movie
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: and started walking differently like Pierro does once he has
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: a thought in his head where all of a sudden
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: he's like, wait, I'm mad that maybe the privileges that
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I dance through life with got a baby lie in
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: into a cage and that bothers me, and it bothers
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: me enough to wear a poppy every day and to
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: change the way that I have walked. I'm no longer
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: dancing through life.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Have you seen those videos where people are criticizing the
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: fact that he like supposedly had this emotional change because
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: no one in the privileged class would ever And I'm
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: just like, and they're in lies part of the problem
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: and why we can't actually break anything away, because now
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: if somebody really does feel moved who is in you know,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: grew up in a privileged lifestyle and they do feel
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: moved by injustice. You're now making fun of them for
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: feeling some kind of way, Like they're they're new here
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: in this regard.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: They're gonna have they gotta walk before they can fly. Yeah,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Like no one's putting Piero on the on the broom.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm not saying I'm not saying I want
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: to help them become more actualized, because that's a lot
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: of emotional labored. I'm just saying, like if someone's like, uh,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: that isn't set well with me, and I need to
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: figure out why, don't judge them and he couldn't feel bad.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: It's literally what I pray for every night and wish
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: for when I blow out any candle. I'm like, if
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: only five of them would wake up and realize, oh,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: there are other people around, and those people don't have
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: my same circumstance or experience, instead of focusing on all
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: of the things that went wrong for them.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like why and like why is that? Like
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: why is it? Like what am I trying to say?
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Why is it that?
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Because here's where I'm coming from. So when men do
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: have emotions and feel emotion, there's a subsect of women
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: who are like, oh, I don't like that you're crying,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: But yet they also want a man who understands, who.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Has emotional intelligence. It's weird.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: So so make that make sense because we are not
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: helping the scenario when we are rejecting the men who
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: do actually feel and have emotional intelligence, but when we
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: objectify them because they're famous and are publicly speaking like,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: there's a disconnect here, like I don't know what it is.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to work through that, but that exists.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: But then in cases of people who maybe don't experience
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: pain or hardship or difficulties that aren't things like like
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: if your parents get divorced and it now means that
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: you and your mother are living in poverty versus your
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: parents are getting divorced and that man is paying your
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: mother alimony, so your lifestyle doesn't have to change.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Two different types of pain.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But like let Fierro realize, we need the people
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: who live in the systems to realize and be accepted
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: so that way they can help us chip away at
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: the system.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Correct, Because do you know what I appreciate the most
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: about Fierro's change. I guess we'll call it his evolution,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: his evolution, if you will. He was just a boy
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: sitting in a class watching so Pretty, So Pretty with
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the thighs, watching a tiger cub cry, and he was like,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I don't actually like this. And it had nothing to
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: do with him, had nothing to do with his taxes,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with his four oh one k,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with his standing as a
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: prince or as the fuck boy of shiz. He saw
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: a lion in pain and he went, there's something small
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I can do about this, And then it started to
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: snowball in his head where he's like, if that lion
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: cub was crying, are there other lion cubs crying places? Wait?
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Is the system bad? Hold on? John Cena made a
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: movie about it on Prime Like where he was like, wait,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: is this so bad?
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Because again, you don't know it's bad unless you experience.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: The badness. That's not the way I want to say that.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, right, Like, I know
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: what it's like, Like my reaction to Glinda, uh huh
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: is because of my lived experience, right, And getting on
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: TikTok and watching women be like, oh my god, I
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: relate to Alphabet, but I'm like, but you're white, how
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: do you relate to Alha? You're probably more of a
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Glinda and you don't want to accept that.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that wherein lies the difference of Fiera
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: in Glinda is he had the emotional capacity and the character,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: the inner character to watch something happen and not think
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: about himself in that moment, he fully gets Alphabet out
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: of harm's way. He does he And then there's Glinda's like,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: girl like.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: She's conflicted. I mean, she eventually does help, but she's
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: conflicted the whole time. Fiera was not conflicted in where
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: he needs to be.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Right where there is still a part of Glinda that
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: will watch all of this go down and be like,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: but how do I make my fortune off of this?
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Which is how this country is fucking ran?
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with the proposal to privatize the post office? What what?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: And so that sent me, by the way, because I
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: love the USPS so much. It's not okay how much
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I love.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Them, And I think why I end up loving characters
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: like Belinda, and why I love the Barbarian movie and
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: all of the well assuming men in the Barbarian movie.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: And anytime you end up with a villain who meant
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: well is I'm like, Oh, Glinda's walk among us and
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: really do believe that they be in the right yep.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: And they're really good at convincing you that they're in
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: the right because they're pretty and they have great poses
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: and they flip their hair and you like them. I
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: would have loved to have been Glinda's friend in high school.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I've probably been a hundred Glinda's friends. I've probably also
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: been at Glinda and a Fierro where I'm like, how
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I adjust ignore doesn't have un for a moment. I'm
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: at I went disco and there.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Don't ruin scient disc go please runs.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I went disc got for me. I'm just ready to
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: have a good time in these trying times. And there
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: are still days where I get wrapped up into that
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, can I just go to the Barbie
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: movie and have fun and not have one man try
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: to talk to me about it?
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: When I went out one weekend with my friends for
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: annual friend day, for this big thing that we go to.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: We went out after and you.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Know, everyone wants to dance but my feet were hurting
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: because I'm middle aged now and I didn't wear the shoes,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: the right shoes to walk from point A to point B.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: But I didn't know there was gonna be walking this
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: whole thing. So I'm chair dancing because I love to dance.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, I'm gonna have to chair dance because
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: my right leg is hurting so bad. And this guy
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: won't take no for an answer, and.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: At that point we should pick him.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: And like multiple times was like come on, and then
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: at one point comes over and starts trying to pull
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: me up off the couch. No, it was a complete sentence.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And then at sits next to me at the couch
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: and starts dancing, and I'm like, I don't like how
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: close he is. So my friend comes up to me.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: She's like, I need you to walk me to my car.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: That is a real friend. She did not need me
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: to walk her to her car. She parked right out front.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: She knew I needed to get out of that situation.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: And then when I got back and I was watching
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: him dance with somebody, was like, that's how you would
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: have danced with me.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I don't want you that close to my body. I
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: don't know you. I don't know you.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: I said no, And the more you pushed, the more
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I recoiled. And now I don't like, why don't you understand,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Like now you're gross to me.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now he's on TikTok going I don't understand
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: because I was trying to be nice and make sure
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: that she had a good time.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Like having a good time means when I say no,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: please don't. And then my best friend was like, here's
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: the thing about Julia. If she said no, don't fuck
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: with her, she will. She will just double down, like
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You said that, thank you.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: That is how you friend.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: And I think to bring it back to the moments
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: before I hit record, when it's like, this.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Is why all the real good gems we missed.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: All the real good gems you missed because you're not
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: my personal friend. The listener, not me, right, the listener,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: not Julia. Give Arianna her flowers and her oscar and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: give her the grace to grow as a human and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: as a woman. And because I think it takes a
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: very strong in themselves woman to play Glinda opposite of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Cynthia Arrivo's Alphaba, knowing what that's going to change for
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: the film.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really do think Arianna did an amazing job,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm not I'm indifferent about her. I love her music,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: but I'm in different about her acting because I remember
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: her from Nickelodeon and I just wasn't really impressed with
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: her Nickelodeon days. With all that said, she she she
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: did such an incredible job. The way that she and
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Cynthia play off each other was so beautifully done. It
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: felt so natural, so real. They both had, you know,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: comedic moments that were delightful. I think Ariana, more than
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: Cynthia had comedic opportunities and she crushed that. And then
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: she also like she was just so sincere in the
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: role but also understood that there was silliness to it
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: and it was just incredible. It'll be interesting to see who,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: if she gets nominated, who she's up against, and how
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: that plays out.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to that scene in the ozdest ballroom,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I believe Glinda when Glinda says that she feels terrible.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: I just need that to be a turning point for Linda,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: and I believe that what Glinda ends up going through
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: is what a lot of former friends of mine ended
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: up going through where they were so close, they were
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: so close to getting the plot. They were so close,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and at the end of the day they were still
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: too scared to do it. They didn't feel supported enough
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: to do it. Where were her and Alphaba gonna live.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'm just gonna get on this broom, and
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: then what, I'm just gonna get on this broom and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: then what that's scary, Like it's a scary position. And Alphaba,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: because Alphaba lived a very different life, was like, well, fuck,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. I've been through scary before, I've
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: been alone before. It's gonna be fine. And so I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: think that's why at the end of the day I
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: end up with so much love and forgiveness for Glinda,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and then I guess by an extension ariana grande, because
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: it does take a lot of emotional depth to pull
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: that off. Mm hmm. And I don't always know if
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Glinda the character on stage has had that kind of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: emotional depth journey, Like, I don't know if I always
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: thought that. Okay, I think it's really easy to boil
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: down the friendship of Alphaba and Glinda to two different,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: very different people who had two very different set of ideals.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: But I think that when we do that, we underestimate
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: how close Glinda actually was to being on the right
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: side of it all.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting because my takeaway is, again, she just
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: didn't do the work.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's a fear of response, I think when
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: people don't do the work. M hmm.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: Like she was really good at making Alphaba feel like
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: the work was happening, yeah, and then given the opportunity
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: to support Alphaba, she chose not to.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was an interest seeing TikTok I saw where
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: people said that, probably because it was at the end
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: of the movie and the movie was long, so we
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: had all stopped picking apart their facial expressions. That when
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: they're winding up that staircase to the balloon that tower, Yeah,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Cynthia Rivo is doing that with such confidence. She doesn't
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: care how high they're climbing. She she's only looking ahead.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: She knows what the courses and she's set on it.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: And Arianna did such a brilliant job being like Glinda's
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: wavering because she's like, oh my god, we're really high up.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, like there are people chasing us. Oh
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: my god, this guy has a hold of my leg
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: like and again it's that really good balancing of the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: comedy and the heartbreak in Glinda that I'm like the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: entire cast their trophies because last year you pissed me
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: so off with the as I said, I'd never be
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: back because you said out loud that fantasy and comedy
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: have no place in awards ceremonies. So what are you
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: gonna do with Wicked? What are you gonna do? Because
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: it's comedy, it's music, it's fantasy. There's a fucking lion
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: at some point, or a lion clock, I don't know,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: not a lie in a dragon. Yeah, we'll find out
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: in January. Like there's talking at animals, all of it.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: What the fuck are you gonna do with Wicked? And why?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: And why? I asked you. Were the Oscars more open
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to comedy and fantasy when it came to the Lord
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: of the Rings than they ever were when it came
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: to the Barbie? And probably Wicked? Ain't that something? Ain't
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: that something? So many men in a fellowship in the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: woods trying to find a piece of jewelry.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: I think part of the reason why I don't fully
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: believe that Glinda was willing to grow and change in
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: that she felt sincere in her relationship with Elpha. Is
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: the scene where she goes from Glinda to Glinda because
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: the way that people just sort of shrug off that.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: She's like, I will now go by Glinda in honor
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: of are mysing professor, and everyone's like okay, and then
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: goes back to like whatever they were doing, and she
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: was like, that's not the response we're supposed to give me.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: That's where I was.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, this is you didn't actually you're not actually
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: in solidarity, you're still in show.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: But then I can't remember. Is it right after that happened.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's right after no, because Pharah is there at
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: that point. Okay, right before that happens. She says, Piero's
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: been thinking. It's like I don't even know him. But
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: even though I don't even and even though I don't
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: think he's perfect anymore, I still want him. And I
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: think it's tiny things like that where I'm like, you're
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: so close girl, yeah in the string you just but
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think it's dangerous to discount when people
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: make choices out of fear and then you go, shit,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: they never cared about me at all, And it's like,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: well it because Chris said it during his episode two,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: because I said, you know, part of the reason I
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: cried during Defying Gravity is because I'm so frustrated at
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: the ones who haven't come as far as I have
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: but still want to take up space in my brain
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: in my heart. And Chris was like, you have to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: meet people where they're at, and she was so close,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: and then at the end of the day, she's like,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: this is one step too scary.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: With that said, though, there is a point where it's like, Okay,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying. How many more centuries are
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: we going to go by offering that comfort because we've
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: known for a long time that these systems aren't good
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: and they're bad, and we as black women, have been
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: standing in front of white women forever saying, Hey, all
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I'm asking is that you make this one right choice.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: It's gonna help us, and then in the long run,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: it's also gonna help you. It's gonna help all of us,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: but it helps us and you, not just you, versus
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: white women choosing what's just helping them. So like, for me,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: as a black woman, I can't always give that grace
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: an understanding because I've only been on this planet for
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: forty years, and the amount of times that has happened
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: to me where I'm like, I just ask one time
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: that you think about both of us and not just you,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: and you still chose just you, and that's hard and
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: you're gonna and so it took me many years to
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: accept the fact that you can only do that for
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: so long before you have to walk away from that
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: because it's not gonna be good. It's not going to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: end well. Like that's that's the answers. It's not going
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: to end well, as we've seen coming through what's happening
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: now currently. And like the friend that reminds me of Glinda,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: multiple times I've stood in front of her and said.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: I just need you to choose both of us this.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: One time, and she always chose her and she's never
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: ever and so so that's the part where I'm just
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: like I it's hard for me to give that kind
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: of grace and understanding because my lived experience tells me
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: that the women who are not like me are always
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: going to choose them over us.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know what my fatal flaw is. If
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: it had been Garo that pulled that shit, and got
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: too scared. At the eleventh hour, I'd be like, burn
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: him at the state. I knew he'd do that. Well,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: because Glinda's a girl, She's one of my girl leifes.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll give her one more chance, because what
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: do I What always gets me in trouble is I
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: forgive women without even I'm thinking that deeply on it.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I'll just be like, you know what, You're right, You're
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: a sister in the cause, and sometimes the cause is
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: hard and it and when am I going to learn
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: my lesson?
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: And I feel like there's nothing wrong with that. But
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: we know now, we know now that white women owned
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: just as many Black women as white men. Did we
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: know now? Somebody finally decided to gather that data and
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: put it in a report, and then someone peer reviewed
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: it and validated that report. So the root of the
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: problem is always going to be white women will not
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: choose us, they will choose me. And so until we
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: can work through that, I don't know if there will
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: ever be unity within the feminist movement in creating equity.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: In creating equality, there needs to be ownership from non
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: black people in the way that they have aided in
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: anti blackness before they like that is the start of
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: the work, before we can actually get any ground work done.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Because like when we read Good Girls Revolt a year
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: or so ago, and like the consensus amongst the white
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: women were like, I can't believe these black women won't
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: help us with this case. And you're just like, but
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: none of you offered to help them get more money
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: or jobs that are outside of cleaning, So like, why
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: so you have done nothing for them and you're asking
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: them to do something for you without offering to bring
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: them up as well.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: It's thee I gave you this twin sized bed space
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: in the room, and I was hoping you put in
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: a good word with manam horrible for me? Right? Really,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: it's brilliant how they direct John Chew sir, he's very good.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: You're very good. Call me any day. We'll just say
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: a sex this movie and all of the ways that
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you made sure that you were intentional about the story
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: that's actually being told during Wicked, and it is a
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: story of who gets power and who gets a wicked
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: reputation is usually not even in the control of those
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: who are deemed wicked.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: He didn't get nominated for a Golden Globe.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Right, I don't know, John, Chu did you get nominated?
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Asking him like he's on the call with us.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna send it. You know. I love to talk
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: to people that I would love to talk to me
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: back when I clip this on TikTok. It's working one time, well,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Rosie is Amazings. Oh, it's technically work twice because of
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Rosie and Katie Maloney.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's Stephan. It's nominated for Best Picture. But I'm
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: looking for director. Hold on, I'm sorry, be that person.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: He'll get an he'll get a Golden Globe if it
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: gets Best Picture, right, Like, he'll get a trophy. I
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: don't know who gets a trophy for what he.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Is not nominated for Best Director?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Wow, this very wise, Crais. Okay, well, I'm mad about that.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: I'm mad because he did. And I told Chris I go,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: there are certain things.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Like two of these guys I can't even tell apart
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: from their pictures.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Because I told Chris, I go, there are things that
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I think hit harder in the Wicked movie, probably because
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: I can see their facial expressions then it ever hit
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: for me in the stage, on the stage, on the
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: fun little romp musical that I would see from eighty
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: yards back, like, yeah, that's a crime. I'm mad my friend,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: my future friend, John Cheu. I guess I'm gonna move
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: us to because this became its own episode. Who have thought?
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: It's the only time I've gotten to talk about the
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: election on a hot line. So I'll put Glinda the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Good in the Election as the title. Oh oh, I
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: don't know if I should put election. Will that get
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: me arrested? We gotta be worried about our hashtag?
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Now just release it on TikTok and ten minute increments.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: They won't know.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, one day they're gonna put my face on
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: a fucking poster and people are gonna say that I
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: deserve whatever happened to me because of this fucking podcast.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: It's fine. I guess my greatest takeaway from Glinda, as
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: it usually is whenever we talk about a complicated white woman,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: is that I have to at some point, I have
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: to start drawing more lines between empathy and understanding how
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: we got here, in actual forgiveness and forgetting It's gotta
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: happen because I'm so quick to just be like it's
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: I love being hurt by women. So this is fine.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't don't mind me.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Just hurt me. Don't mind me. Just let me down
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: one more time. Give me another statistic about election. Please,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: I'm so mad and hurt. I did take I have
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: been taking all of this personally. I don't know why.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I thought that I was leading
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: the movement. I was like, like, I like, all of
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm Moses not being able to go to
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: the Promised Land. But I did take everything so personally.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I told you what I thought I thought my
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: life was going. Twenty sixteen made sents because my life
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: had started hitting shit in twenty In like the summer
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, my life fully derailed.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: So it's like, of course the.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Country's derailing, my life is derailing. And this year I
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, my life is going so much better,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: like I'm actually doing well for the first time in
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: my life. Of course, the country is going to make
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: the right choice, because at the end of the.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Day, it's all about me and Julia exactly.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: We did exactly what Golinda did, less with less harm
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: because we made the right decision, but was still to Lulu.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: But we but we thought about ourselves because in this scenario,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: choosing ourselves was actually choosing to protect everybody.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that something? Julia? What was your lesson from Glinda?
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: My lesson from Glinda, I don't.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Know if we're gonna like it. It's mine, she's a
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: complicated white woman.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: My lesson from Glinda was actually more of a reminder that, uh,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: white women are just as responsible for the patriarchy.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: Well, why would I not be on board with that
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: when I know that.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if that's a lesson that
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: you wanted me.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: To say, Oh, you think we're all of a sudden
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: like this will be what makes me viral on what read?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: It is like the white women or it's like when
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: on Glamorous Trash, I was like, Nay, don't say the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: word chest, don't say the word terf, and then I
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: said it for how could you avoid it?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like like everyone was so moved by
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: the movie, and rightfully so, because it's stunningly beautiful. The
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: performances are amazing. People don't have Instagram and and snapchat
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: face like it is, go like these teeth are real,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Like it's stunning. It's just incredibly talented people
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: who look like somebody that you would walk next to
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: on the street, but also are beautiful, you know what
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: I mean. Costumes, holy shit, holy shit, amazing. And everyone's moved,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: everyone's weeping, everyone's like, oh my god. We are in OZ, like,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: oh my god, here's all the things. And I'm sitting
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: in the movie theater going, oh my god, how many
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: times am I gonna have to sit through white women
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: always choosing themselves and not giving a fuck whether as
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: friends I live or die?
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Right? And I that's why I didn't leave the movie
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: theater right away, because it's not the exact line of thinking,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: but it's a partner to it. All I thought was, God,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: damn it, when will they listen to me? Because everything's
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: about me? When will they listen to me? And fucking
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: understand how unlimited we could. I'm stuck on the unlimited word. Yeah,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: maybe that's what. So here's the thing. I thought that
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: my my word for twenty twenty five was going to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: be movement. Oh yeah, because we got a shake and
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: shimmy for our dinner. But maybe it's unlimited.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe because it is really hard, Like it's when
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: I when I leave my colorful queer group and go
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: walk into my middle aged sis hetero group, I walk
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: away not I mean I love my friends in that group.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I you know, we're still friends for a reason. At
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: the same time, it's a reminder. It always serves as
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: a reminder that I've done the work. I wasn't afraid
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: to be alone. I wasn't afraid of taking certain and
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: that's probably why I'm risk averse and a lot of
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: other ways, because I took such a big risk and
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: being like I will be using a lot and figure
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: it out. We'll just figure it out. And I think
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: not everyone has that ability. And don't get me wrong,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: there were many years I had to fight in family court.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: There were a lot of scenarios and situations. I'm just like,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: I really hate that that's part of my history and
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: I wish I didn't have to go through that. Like
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: at the same time, the cis heteral world is so toxic,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: and I don't understand choosing to remain in that if
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: it makes you feel.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: Bad every day, every moment of every day, and bringing
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: children up in that well, and also like the way
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: that we've been conditioned to feel bad and the name
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: immediately go but it is what it is, like, Yeah,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: this is normal.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: I have a friend who's been telling me for over
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: a year her mental health has been shit. My mental
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: health is just mom too. My mental health has just
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: been so bad, and I'm over so After like the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: third time they had said it, I was just like, Okay,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: every time we hang out you say this and nothing
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: is being done. Is nothing being done because you don't
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: feel like you can do something, or is nothing being
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: done because it means it's going to cause and create
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: radical change in your family unit and you don't want
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: to find out how what that change is. And it's
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: not judgment. I'm not judging her, like to each their own,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: but I remember what it was like to live in
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: really deep bad mental health situation, and I don't like
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: who I was back then. I made a lot of
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: choices that I regret, made a lot of friends I
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have probably be friends, probably have been friends with
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: because they encouraged bad behavior.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: But I guess for me when my.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: When my partner was like, this isn't what I want,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: I was like, cool, I'm out. You don't have to
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: tell me twice, right God?
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: And yeah I don't. And that's and like I'm not
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: a fighter in that way. First off, I think we
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: should end this very heavy Glinda conversation with what was
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: your favorite part of the movie. I think you'll hate
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: my answer, So.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: I actually have two that I think about all the time.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: One is the scene of Fierro and Alphaba in the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: forest after everyone after the poppies do their thing and
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: they kind of escape. I think at that scene all
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: the time, and well, I do love a gay man
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: or I guess Fiara bisexual, whatever, I love queer men, okay,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: And but yeah, I'm like, I just want that scene
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: to be like streamable somewhere that's not like someone recording
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: it and putting it on TikTok. And then the other
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: one I think about all the time is when Alphaba
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: arrives with her sister and she's seeing all this for
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: the first time and just having big emotions and feelings
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: about it, but she's not jealous, and she and then
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: and then to be given the Golden ticket and that
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: validation that she does belong.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: My favorite part is when Golinda's trying so hard to
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: change her ugly broat into a ball gown. Well gown specifically,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: my favorite part is where she goes hung and she
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: starts humming and just moving like she's an oh yeah, that's.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Such a great scene.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: And then she goes ball gown and it doesn't work,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: and Alphaba goes, do you want me to help you?
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: And she goes, no, just wear it. It's pretty. I
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: love that part. I also really want to own the giant,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: chuckled blue concrete bust of his head. Oh my gosh,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: if anyone would like to John Chew, if you would
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: like to send that to my home. My birthday is Christmas.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: H What does Glinda and Wicked won't make you want
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: to manifest for the future? White women doing the work?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: Is that it? Yeah, that's mine too.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: It's my legitimately doing the work and not just like, oh,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: let's be friends and then vote for themselves versus the wee.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Stephanie reminds me of this every time. As you know,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: my current fear fixation is that I can't actually drive
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: to Chicago. Yes, we're walking through it, though, we're working
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: through it. What's happening. It'll just have to be perfect
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: weather and sunny, and Stephanie goes, you do this every time,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: and then you'll be in the middle of your drive
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: to Chicago, and you'll realize that you're capable of anything.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: And this wasn't actually hard, you were just told it
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: was hard. And I think that white women should embrace
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: the idea that we've always been told that a life
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: without a man is hard. Yes, that's accurate. Yet and
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: yet they don't make it any easier when they're around.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: And so just try it. What if you just tried
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: disagreeing with them once a week? I've been telling friends
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: when they start dating a new guy, I go, you
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: have to tell them no seven times, and you have
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: to track like and they have to be for different reasons,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: like you can't just be like sucks or like blah
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: blah blah. You have to disagree with them seven times.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: You have to track their facial movements, the tone of
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: their voice, their body and language, everything, and that will
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: tell you everything that you need to do. What is
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: going to happen when you challenge them? So just try it.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: What if you just tried it? What if you just
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: tried it? Try?
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: Just taste it.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: So and my other manifestation is that I make being
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: a mens to men in challenging them look so sexy
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: and cool that everyone wants to do it. Yeah, I
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: love that because it's so sexy, so cool.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Because I think you're absolutely right. I think people do
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: believe that.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: It's very scary. I remember I had a friend one
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: time who knew she needed to leave her partner. It
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't a safe and healthy situation. She was like, how
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: did you do it? How are you? How are you
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: a single part? And it's like, literally don't know.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: Just one day it was like, oh, this is ending
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm just gonna have to figure it out. And
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: I did and I'm not I'm for the better. And
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: she's like, oh my gosh, bah blah, you know all
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: this stuff. And then you know, she was like, yeah,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: I think I can. I'm pretty sure.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: I think I do. That was in.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: One t fourteen. Oh that's ten years and as far
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: as I know, she's still with that person. Yeah, And
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: it's like it it is really.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: It can be really scary to think about the future. Period.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh you got a new job. What is that
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: going to mean for you? It's scary. You're getting on
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: a plane to go across the Atlantic, that's scary. You
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: have to move to a new city, that's scary. Someone
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: in your life is no longer going to be in
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: your life. That is scary. Figure it out and find
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: support and resources to help you, because that's what we do.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: Can't You can't run this life alone, but you can
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: run it without a partner, right or the patriarchy. It
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: turns out they keep us in a fear mindset for
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: a reason, like at the end of the day, and
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: that's also something that Linda just hasn't grasped hold of
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: yet and maybe gets a little bit more clearer to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: her in the second part. They keep us in a
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: fear safe for a reason because they're hoping it works
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: just long enough for them to continue to be also
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: so mediocre at being awful, Like this is all like
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: I wrote in a scholarship application today and Rose said
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: it during the Tellmey Lies episode where we're like, misogyny
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: is funny, misogyny is so unserious. We should be making
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: fun of this all the time. We should be Uh,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Elon musk is melting and we're not talking about it enough.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: Why is he melting? Why is his entire body decaying
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: in front of our eyes?
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: I also think it's really funny how all of these
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: celebrities are accidentally outing themselves as being Musk supporters idiots
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Joe Bros.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: What the hell you could just say nothing? You all
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: are so mediocre at this mm hmmm. Julia, thank you
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: for being here. Thank you for educating me as a
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: white woman who forgives other white women because I only
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: have so much menace in my heart to give and
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: it goes all its misogyny mm hmmm, and the men
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: who dyke crazy? Where can people shop and support you?
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: If you would like to support a woman owned small business,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: put a different qualifier before women, because white women have
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of guilt. So if you put that qualifier,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: if you would like to own a black owned own,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: not own Julia, if you would like to shop, don't
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: let them own your business? What are you doing? If
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: you would like to support and shop here? It is.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 4: As a as a I can be black woman in
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: America who has gifts and talents when it comes to
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 4: making candles and art. And I would love for you
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: to shop my website. Good news, the website is reopened
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: as of January fifteenth, and you can shop the new line.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: There is going to be feminine rage candles that you
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 4: can purchase.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even know this, yes, because Kelly and I
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: have been very quiet about working on it. I have
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: collaborated with Kelly peerlt from a Pleasant Creative Company, and
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: we've designed a line of feminine rage candles, all literary,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: all writers, all women, writers who famously were told they'd
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: be nothing without men, but yet have outlisted out, but
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: yet have outlasted all of those men they were told
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: to marry.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what the Marie Shelley ones
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: spuffs like.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: So you can shop my website. If I have figured
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: out how to switch it to prosanglow dot com, you
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: can do it there. If I haven't, it's Julia Washington
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Productions dot com. Because you know tech is not my
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: strong suit. I'm an artist.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: Or to really.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Guarantee that you know what's going on in the pros
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: and Glow world, just follow us on Instagram at pros
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: and Glow and then if you think that I'm a
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: delight and would love to follow my unhinged journey on
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: the internet, you can find me the Julia Washington on
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Instagram and probably still TikTok. I'm sure my account won't,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: my profile won't disappear, just maybe the app might.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Uh, you can find me at men, I've tolerated pod
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, Nadley K one two four on Instagram and
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: the app that might be banned or not banned. Who
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: could say time is a construct and so are laws?
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Follow us at twelve the men, I've toler you before.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: I Patreon. There's free stuff. Maybe there will be paid
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: stuff again. Oh it was on break?
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: Can I plug one more thing?
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Plug? The candle Club?
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, So Natalie is a member of our Candle Club
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: and basically what that is, so I you know, in
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: the top Natalie, it said, I host Jolly Pop's book Club.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: We eat book to screen adaptations, and every month I
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: make a candle that partners with our book club pick
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: of the month. And so every month you get a
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: candle on your doorstep that is unique and inspired by
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: a literary goddess of some kind, meaning the book that
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: we've read. Yeah, because in twenty twenty five, we're mostly
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: just sticking to women. Yep, we read a few gay
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: guys this year in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: or only reading women, just no political reason, just because
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: these are books I wanted to read, and I'm forcing
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: the bookloud to read them all.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: Will be linked in the show notes, because I would
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: never make you type something into a web browser like
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: it's nineteen ninety eight. Yes the future, baby paper links.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: And remember, tolerators, you have to smile through anything you're tolerating,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: including wanting to hold space for how majestic it was
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: just watching defind Gravity, but instead you're thinking of all
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: the white women or women in general who let you down.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: Smiles are for joy.