Latest / Fit for Hiking / Ep. 88 The Truth About HIIT: Why It’s Not the Ultimate Fat-Loss Solution
Transcript
- Hi, my name is Brady and I'm a longtime fitness professional and Midwest girl turned mountain living hiking addict and combining my knowledge of fitness and passion for hiking. I've helped hundreds of women get lean and strong for the trails. Think of this as your one stop shop for both education and inspiration on all things female wellness, trail talk and adventure. Hiking, female metabolism, motherhood, nutrition, travel and fitness are all topics you'll hear discussed here. If you are outdoorsy and active, looking to level up your health, unlock your potential, and become inspired to live your most vibrant life, you're in the right place. You're listening to the fit for hiking podcast. Hello and welcome back to the fit for Hiking podcast. I am so excited to dive into today's topic. You guys. We're going to be talking about really everything you need to know about how it may be not the best fat loss solution. Um, and kind of the the potential negative impacts of Hit, which is really become kind of a big phenomenon in the fitness world. And if you're a little bit unfamiliar with what I'm referencing, Hit stands for high intensity interval training. And it's something that has become really popular over the last decade, especially in regards to attempting to get leaner, to get more toned, to lose fat. Those are all the same thing. Um, they all mean the same thing. So we're talking about. Hit and it's correlation with fat loss. Okay, I'm not talking about just like general, if you like it, if it's good for your mental health. Amazing. Okay. I'm just talking about if your goal is fat loss, why it might not be the power tool that you have been told, or you might think it is because of trending things that are going on in the fitness industry. Okay. So there has been a lot of hype around hits as a go to workout for fat loss, but really, not everyone is agreeing at this point based on recent studies, that it's the best method, especially in the long term for fat loss. So if you're a hit girlie, or you're just kind of unsure of what method of exercise is right for you for fat loss, and you heard about hidden, you're interested in it, then this is going to be a good lesson for you. Um, especially if you're someone who has been doing it and not necessarily seeing the results that you want to see, because that is a big part of my own journey as well, into finding a more holistic approach to fat loss that was sustainable over time. Um, so we're going to talk about eight key points to consider when you're looking at hit for fat loss, especially as women, because there are gender differences when we're looking at this stuff. Okay. So let's dive in. Number one is the calories in versus calories out component. So it does actually burn a lot of calories. So if you're looking at the amount of time that you're exercising versus the amount of calories you're burning, you're getting a pretty good bang for your buck. That's why it's become so popular, because you can do these quicker workouts and have an effective, quick calorie burn. Basically, the format of Hit is that you're doing these short bursts of energy. So like 20s all the way up to maybe a minute of an interval where you're really pushing hard, you're going as fast as your body can move. And it's an explosive movement typically, usually on body weight style, and it's fast and you're trying to just go hard and then you get a rest. Okay. So you're doing these intervals, but you're only able to do them for short time periods because nobody has the capacity to just keep doing intervals for like an hour or something crazy like that. Right. So fat loss fundamentally is going to come down to creating an overarching calorie deficit throughout the entirety of your day, your week, your month. Right. We have to consistently be in a calorie deficit. It's not enough to just look at our calories from our workouts. We have to look at how many calories are we taking in? What's our total daily energy expenditure based on the thermic effect of food based on our meat, which is our non exercise activity thermogenesis based on our basal metabolic rate, all these different factors. So some research is suggesting that steady state cardio like jogging or incline walking or something like that can actually burn more calories overall than hit, especially because you're able to maintain and sustain that activity for a longer period. So say, I'm going for a hike. Um, you know, I'm not pushing myself nearly as hard as I would be during a hit workout. However, I'm probably hiking for more than 20 minutes. 30 minutes, right? I'm going to be out there for at least an hour, maybe more, and I'm continuously moving and getting my energy expenditure up. So when you look at the ability to maintain that effort, that's where it kind of falls short, because you really just can't do it properly the way it's intended to be done. For more than about 20 to 30 minutes at the very most. Okay. So then we get into the thermic effect of the afterburn. So calorie burning afterwards. So this is called the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption Epoc is what it's abbreviated to. So this actually is a real thing from exercises that are anaerobic like height and weight lifting. But it just doesn't always make up for the difference in total calories burned from a longer, less intense workout like doing 40 plus minutes or an hour of, um, you know, a jog or a incline walk or something like that. So when you look at it for what it is, is it actually that much better for calorie burn? Not necessarily. And for so many reasons. Just the calories and calories out component is not super helpful when we're looking at fat loss, because there's so many other things that we need to take into consideration, which we're going to dive into today. Number two is the impact on muscle mass. So hit while it is great for improving your anaerobic cardio fitness, it can also be catabolic, which means it's breaking down muscle tissue if you're not careful, and especially if you're doing it frequently without enough recovery or proper nutrition. And if your goal is fat loss, then you're most likely eating in a calorie deficit in order to achieve fat loss. You do have to be in a calorie deficit. Um, It's just necessary. So if you're doing that and adding hit into the mix, then you're likely losing muscle. And one thing we really focus on in mountain metabolic coaching, when we are going into a leaning out phase or into a cut with clients, is we want to maintain as much muscle as humanly possible, because preserving muscle mass during fat loss is key. To make sure that we are still toned at the end of a cut, right? That we haven't lost equal parts muscle and fat, but also for our basal metabolic rate. The more muscle we have on our frame, the higher our basal metabolic rate will be at rest. Our body just burns more calories to keep that muscle intact, so we don't want to be breaking down our muscle. Um, I think a lot of ladies like, get this misconception that muscle is what makes us look super bulky, but it's really just excess body fat and inflammation. We need that muscle. Otherwise we're not going to have the toned appearance that we want. We're not going to be able to do the activities we want. We're not going to have great bone density, and our basal metabolic rate is going to really slow down as we get older if we're constantly losing muscle. So we really need to make sure that as we're in a fat loss phase, trying to lean out, that we're focusing on muscle maintenance. And it is not really helping us with that because it is catabolic in nature. So doing activities that help you preserve your lean mass while you're in a calorie deficit is really, really important. And that's why it is not. The best solution for fat loss. Just one of the many reasons. Number three is the sustainability and adherence. So it is intense just by nature. That's in the name intensity. It is a very intense form of exercise. And not everyone is going to be able to enjoy it consistently over the long haul. For that reason, and for fat loss to be effective, you need to consistently stick with something, right? You can't just like it for a month. You have to continue doing it for the rest of your life. And yes, you can totally ebb and flow with like the activities that you're enjoying. There might be seasons of your life where you really enjoy cardio versus weightlifting or outdoor activities versus indoor. That's totally fine, but you still need to have some of those foundational activities that are exercise and muscle preserving that you can go back to as a staple in your routine. So if it feels too grueling or too hard on your body, you're probably not going to be able to maintain this type of activity consistently. Um, I even look at like, right now. So as I'm recording this, I am seven months pregnant. And if I had been relying on hit as my primary form of exercise, I would feel pretty lost right now because I absolutely cannot be doing hit workouts where I am in pregnancy. My body just can't really support that type of intense movement. I'm not supposed to be jacking up my heart rate quite that high. So it's just not necessarily the best. As you enter certain seasons of life, maybe where you need more gentle forms of exercise, maybe you're rehabbing an injury, maybe you've been really sick, or you're just getting older and your joints don't feel so good when you're doing super explosive stuff. So you want forms of activity that are going to sustain you throughout all the seasons of your life, right? That's really important. Um, and finding that balance between intensity and enjoyment might make lower intensity cardio activities, resistance training in different forms, hiking, outdoor activities just a bit more sustainable for fat loss over time. Number four is recovery and overtraining. So hit place is a pretty high demand on your body. And if recovery isn't managed properly, it can lead to overtraining, burnout or injury. And overtraining can actually slow down your fat loss efforts and lead to muscle loss like we were talking about. It's not the best method for maintaining or gaining muscle. Um, and so if you're doing it all the time as your primary form of exercise, it is likely that you could end up in a place of overtraining. It's just pretty intense on the body. So that is something to factor in. Um, number five is an individual preferences. So everybody's different as far as what you are going to enjoy and like for your exercise. And for some people it is fun and effective. Like I actually really enjoy it personally. Um, I used to really love like the hit classes and things like that. I found it so fun and rewarding to work so hard and push my body so hard. Um, but for other people it's really draining. So the good news is you don't have to do a hit in order to see fat loss. So if you're someone who's been thinking, oh my gosh, I'm just not going to see progress unless I'm doing really intense cardio workouts. I promise you, that's not the case, and it's actually going to really benefit you in the long term to find a routine that you like and that fits into your lifestyle and that you can stick with long term. Because the reality is, is we're just not going to do things long term that we absolutely hate. And yes, I don't like working out every day. Even as a trainer, someone who's been working in the industry for 11 plus years and working out most of my life. Um, there are still days when I don't love weightlifting. I don't love even getting out for a hike sometimes. Like I'm just tired. I don't feel like it, but most of the time I can find enjoyment from those activities, and that's what's important. You don't want to just hate it, because then you're going to have all these mental barriers, and that's going to really keep you from showing up consistently. Um, so enjoyment is a really big piece of the puzzle when it comes to doing this stuff consistently. If you don't love it or like it all, then you're probably not going to continue with it in a sustainable manner. Number six is we have to look at the role of nutrition when it comes to fat loss. So no workout is going to be enough to compensate for out eating your, uh, calories burned, right? We have to be mindful of the amount of food that we're taking in on a daily basis. If fat loss is our goal, you can't exercise a bad diet. You've probably heard that. Um, and it's really, um, easy to try to rely on exercise as a form to just burn, burn, burn. But that's not a very effective approach because you're just going to kind of spin your wheels if you're constantly, um, trying to burn a bunch of calories. But then you go and you overeat the next meal, and you immediately negate all of the effort that you put in. So honestly, I don't even pay attention to calories burned at all anymore. That's not why I exercise. I don't promote that with my clients. I don't think it's beneficial from a mental standpoint for relationship with food, relationship with exercise. We exercise to shape our bodies, to put on muscle, to feel better, to have better mental health, um, and to improve our performance and activities that we like. We're not working out to burn calories. It's just not a smart approach for fat loss. Because if you look at maybe an hour long workout for a moderate sized female, maybe you're going to burn 400 calories. Realistically. Um, and how easy is it to gain those back? That's like one and a half to two cocktails on a Friday night. That's, um, one and a half to two coffee drinks when you order out. Maybe just one, depending on what type of like, latte or drink you're getting. Um, that's two tablespoons of peanut butter. Um, that's two tablespoons of oil or butter, which we're usually cooking with on a regular basis. So it's really easy to just. Consume those calories back unknowingly because we're typically consuming more than we think we are. Um, and so if we're just trying to out burn what we're eating, you're going to find yourself on this never ending hamster wheel of, um, frustration where you are not actually seeing progress. Another thing to think about with hit and really intense cardio sessions is that they do increase your appetite, so if you are not careful, you might end up just overeating or overcompensating for the calories burned because you're just hungry. And that's a normal response if you're doing a lot of cardio. That was something I really struggled with in my cardio era was then I was just ravenous all the time, so of course I couldn't maintain a calorie deficit. So it's more important if you're looking at fat loss, it is more important to focus on your nutrition and nailing your deficit than it is to exercise. And I'm saying this as a trainer and someone who this is my passion and this is my livelihood. But exercise is not the most effective form of fat loss. It's ideal if we pair nutrition and fat loss and all the other lifestyle components together. But if you had to prioritize one, you really need to prioritize your nutrition. Okay. Number seven is the stress component. Okay. This is kind of a big one to unpack. So here we go. Cortisol is a hormone that's released by the adrenal glands in response to stress both physical and mental. So it really doesn't matter like where the stress is coming from. Your body doesn't differentiate between like emotional stress, mental stress or physical stress. Um, so while cortisol is actually really necessary, it's a it's a natural response. It's a good thing that our body secretes cortisol for regulating various body functions like metabolism, immune response and blood sugar levels. What we want to look out for is. Too much cortisol all of the time. Okay. So let's talk about this. There's an acute cortisol response. So hit or really any form of exercise if it's intense is going to cause an acute response of cortisol. So that's like as you're working out or immediately after you're going to see a spike in cortisol during that time. And that's a that's a natural response. There's nothing wrong with that. It helps mobilize energy stores, manage inflammation. Um, however, we want that to return back to baseline shortly after the workout. So that's going to require adequate, adequate rest, proper nutrition, really making sure that you're getting out of that fight or flight nervous system state after your workout. Um, but then we have what's called chronic cortisol elevation. And that's when we are just always kind of borderline high in our cortisol. Um, so we're spiking our cortisol, and we're really not taking care of ourselves to bring it back down. Or if you're constantly doing really high intensity workouts and you're already a high stress human. That is when you see chronically elevated cortisol. So if hit is performed to frequently without proper recovery, then chronic elevation of cortisol can occur. And over time this can lead to negative effects such as increased fat storage, particularly around the abdomen, decreased muscle mass due to the catabolic effects of the long term, high cortisol levels, reduced immune function, and increased risk of illness. Impaired sleep due to disruptions in cortisol. Natural rhythm. So it's not good. You guys, when we are constantly elevated, it causes a lot of dysregulation in the body. We're not meant to live our lives in a constantly stressed out state. So it's important to really look at am I already having a super stressful day and is it going to actually help? Or is it going to maybe add fuel to the fire in this instance? Um, and then continuing along with our relationship between hay and cortisol. Um, just the amount of volume that you are doing is going to make a difference. So research suggests that the volume of hits. So how often and how intensely it's performed is going to play a significant role in whether or not cortisol becomes a problem. So short, intense sessions, maybe 1 to 2 times a week are less likely to cause chronic cortisol elevations. Then if we're doing it, you know, 4 to 5 times a week or more, and they're prolonged sessions where you're just constantly elevated, okay. So it's important to look at the volume. It's not like all hit is bad. But we do need to take these factors into consideration. Another one is gender difference. So there is evidence supporting that men and women are going to respond differently to hit and cortisol release. So women for instance, are more sensitive to cortisol raising effects of intense exercise, especially in the context of our menstrual cycle. So if you are a female of reproductive age or even perimenopause, you're going to be more stress sensitive. And that means the type of exercise that you're doing might affect your body differently than it would if you were a man. Um, that's just the reality. When our body senses too much stress, it causes some repercussions as far as our reproductive hormones and what's going on in our whole body. Okay, so there's kind of a cascade effect, which we're going to talk about the hormone impact here in a second. So cortisol release is going to affect women a little bit more intensely. So, especially if you're going into your luteal phase, which is kind of like the week before your period starts or the beginning of menstruation, that is really not the time to be hitting your workout super hard. You shouldn't be focusing on PR's during that time. You shouldn't be doing your most intense workouts because you are more susceptible to injury, your body is more sensitive to stress, and the extra cortisol is not going to be doing you any favors during that time. You might find yourself extra inflamed. So that does play a factor where you're at in your cycle. Um, and I actually did a whole episode. Episode 43 of the podcast is called Stress and Exercise. How much is too much? So if if this is kind of resonating with you and you are a higher stress person, maybe type A and you find yourself like pretty high anxiety a lot of the time, and you gravitate towards these higher intensity exercise type of programs. Typically, people who are higher stress like pushing their bodies to the max and feeling the effects of the high cortisol. It's like a rush, you know, and we almost seek that out more when that is what we are prone to. Um, but it really is actually doing us potentially more harm than good. Um, which I'll talk about with my own personal story here in a little bit. Um, so check out that episode if this is kind of striking a chord with you. So as far as research and key findings, there's a study in Frontiers in Psychology from 2019 that really emphasizes the importance of recovery in preventing chronic cortisol elevation. It suggested that high intensity training without adequate recovery leads to overtraining syndrome, which can result in chronically elevated cortisol levels and associated negative effects. Okay, so this is stuff that research is showing. It's not just anecdotal. Um, it's important to look at this when you are considering what type of exercise you want to be doing on a regular basis. All right, number eight. And this is another big one we're going to be talking about hormone impact. Okay. So let's dive in. Number one is increased cortisol levels which we just talked about quite a bit. But as we know cortisol is the body's primary stress hormone. Um and intense exercise can spike its production. So some ways that this can lead to some problems when we're chronically elevated is impaired menstrual cycle. So high cortisol levels can interfere with the regulation of reproductive hormones, potentially leading to missed or irregular periods. Basically, if your body senses that it's in danger constantly, then the first thing it's going to shut off is your reproductive abilities. So that's going to affect your hormones. Your brain is going to be telling your body not to secrete certain hormones, and that's going to cause a lot of different issues if we are of reproductive age, um, and then adrenal fatigue. So if the body is constantly exposed to high cortisol, it can then deplete the adrenal glands over time. So for a while you're just elevated elevated elevated. And then all of a sudden your adrenals can't really keep up. And then now you have super low cortisol all the time. So then you're just low energy, constantly sluggish. No matter what you do, you can't get your energy up. Um, so if that kind of sounds like you, then it might be a good idea to get your cortisol tested. Um, and these are two very real impacts of chronically elevated cortisol. And in my own experience, in my 20s, when I was in my hit and cardio era, I was also going through a lot personally as far as just a very stressful state of life. Um, and because of all of that combined, I did lose my cycle for several years when I was in my early 20s. This is not a time when it's normal to have irregular periods or lose your cycle. Okay, this is when you should be very, very regular. And if you're not, then that's your body telling you that something is off. So I ended up getting all this testing done, tons of blood work, and honestly, all that they could figure out was that my estrogen was extremely off and my body was not producing the hormones that it needed to. Um, I was basically having the hormones of a postmenopausal woman at age like 24, and my stress was just way too high. So my body was reacting as if it was just in constant fight or flight, and it led to a ton of inflammation, completely losing my cycle. I was extremely puffy. I was holding on to weight, gaining weight despite working out all of the time. And it was very, very frustrating. And for me, it took. Really changing my relationship with exercise and my relationship with food quite a bit. But from the exercise side, I had to pull back on the intense exercise for quite a while. I had to stop running. I had to stop doing the two days, I had to stop doing hit classes and things like that and really gravitate towards slower strength training. Way more walking, hiking, things that were not elevating my cortisol so drastically because my stress bucket was just too full with everything else that I had going on in life. Okay, so speaking from experience, this is very real and you might not feel these symptoms or experience them right away, but over time your body might start to feel some of these effects. And again, it's different for everyone based on your personality, what you have going on stress wise in your life. So that's not to say if you do a few hit workouts that you're going to start losing your period. This is just for some women. It could be not great depending on what you have going on in your life at the time. Number two is disrupted thyroid function. So intense prolonged stress from too much hit can impact thyroid function because the thyroid plays a key role in regulating metabolism, energy production, and overall hormone balance. So excessive stress has been linked to hypothyroidism, which is an underactive thyroid. And the symptoms of that are fatigue, weight gain and depression. And it's something that requires medication to get your thyroid levels back where they need to be. Number three is an imbalance between estrogen and progesterone, which I was talking about previously. So it can increase estrogen production, especially if there's already a bit of an imbalance. Over time, this might contribute to estrogen dominance, which is when estrogen is just too high relative to your progesterone, and it can lead to symptoms like bloating, mood swings and heavier periods, or just overall menstrual irregularities because of that imbalance. So hormonal imbalances can lead to things like irregular cycles, which can impact fertility and make menstrual cycles more painful. Um, because if you're not, if your estrogen and progesterone are rising and falling when they need to might make it harder to ovulate, which is necessary if you want to get pregnant. Number four. Impact on the reproductive system. So for some women, particularly those with lower body fat or higher levels of stress, overtraining with Hit can lead to conditions like amenorrhea, which is what I had in my 20s. The absence of menstruation, um, and this is often seen in women who push their bodies too hard without proper nutrition or recovery, and it's just a response to stress that can be indicative of an energy imbalance. Your body is like, hey, I'm not getting enough nutrition here. I don't have enough calories to be handling all this stress and all this energy output, so I don't have what I need in order to give you a menstrual cycle every single month and then decrease fertility. So overtraining, particularly without the proper nutrition, can lead to lack of ovulation and it really will affect your overall reproductive health. Number five insulin sensitivity. So while it generally helps with improving insulin sensitivity, most anaerobic activities do like weightlifting and interval work. Excessive training without proper recovery can actually have the opposite effect. So again it's all about the volume, all about moderation. Finding the good balance. In some cases, the body might become less responsive to insulin which can lead to insulin resistance. Um, over time, this can contribute to weight gain, increased risk for type two diabetes, and other metabolic issues. Number six. Overtraining syndrome. So women are particularly susceptible to overtraining syndrome due to hormonal fluctuations, and this can lead to a cascade of issues including fatigue. So just persistent tiredness that doesn't go away with good sleep and with adequate rest. Like if you're just low key tired all of the time, it might be because you're doing a little bit too much in the gym. Mood changes. If you are all of a sudden having more anxiety, depression, irritability due to hormone imbalances, or a weakened immune system, or prone to illness, um, because you have compromised immune function. Those are all symptoms of overtraining. And number seven, loss of muscle mass, which we've touched on. Um, this is really important for women because muscle mass plays a big role in our overall metabolism and bone health, as well as our hormone production. So how do we balance hit for women's health if hit is something that you really enjoy? Um, how do we find that balance? It's not that it's inherently bad, but moderation is key. So here's a few tips for ensuring a more balanced approach. Make sure that you're properly recovering. So allowing for at least 24 to 48 hours between intense hit sessions to give your body time to rest and really focus on nervous system recovery, especially immediately post-workout. You want to be taking deep diaphragmatic breaths. You want to be focusing on relaxing before you just head back into the busyness of your day. Otherwise, you're kind of just kind of stay in that heightened nervous system state. Which can lead to chronically elevated cortisol. Um, also listening to your body. So if you're noticing changes in your menstrual cycle, your energy levels, your mood, it might be a sign that your training is just too intense or too frequent. So maybe you just pull back a little bit if you start to notice those things and gravitate towards more gentle forms of cardiovascular activity, or just slower weight lifting and walking, you really can see results by doing lower intensity efforts. Um, and my final point there is knowing that you can lose weight without hit. You really don't have to do these intense things. Like I mentioned in my own personal journey, it wasn't until I cut out the intense stuff that I actually saw really successful fat loss and lost £25 and have been able to maintain that now for four years. Plus, even with multiple pregnancies thrown in the mix. Um, because I did what I needed to do to be in a consistent calorie deficit without the extremes, I minimize my cortisol big time, got my hormones rebalanced because of that, and I did all of that without doing hit and cardio. I was able to just walk, hike, and lift weights, and I've never been so happy with my body composition. I feel like I have such a good balance. I don't obsess over the calories burned in my workouts. Um, and it's also helped improve my relationship with food. So just know that you don't have to do these trendy, high energy activities in order to see successful weight loss. So ultimately, to kind of wrap it up, you guys, fat loss is about a lot more than just burning calories. So a holistic approach is going to be more successful where you're factoring in your muscle mass, which is going to make it so much easier to lose and maintain weight over time. Your daily non exercise activity, sleep quality, hydration, the quality of the foods that you're eating as well as the quantity, how much you're eating on a regular basis and stress management. So especially as women, we do have to factor in your total stress load and hormone health, which for some people during certain seasons of life may require minimizing workouts that are extremely intense and focusing on just building muscle, increasing your non exercise activity in ways that are gentle, and nailing your diet instead. And we talked about this in episode 87, which is why personalized fitness plans are potentially what you might need in order to actually be successful. We are not all carbon copies of each other. So because of that, and the fact that our lives are not just static all the time, we are dynamic humans. We always have to be adapting. We need plans that that are personalized and adaptive. And oftentimes that requires working with a coach who's going to be able to do that with you and walk alongside you throughout all the changes and kind of troubleshooting what life throws at you along the way. And this is what we provide in Mountain metabolic coaching. So if you feel like that's kind of the missing link, like, you know, you need something different than what you've been doing, you've just been following these generic plans and it's not getting you where you want. I really encourage you to at least apply and and get on a call with me. And we can kind of chat about what what you're hoping to accomplish, what you're looking for, and see if the program sounds like a good fit for you. Um, so if you want to apply to join this spring, we are pretty full at the moment. But for the spring enrollment, um, you can check the link in the show notes for the application. Go apply there and we will be in touch with you there. Thank you so much for tuning in. You guys, I hope that this has been a helpful, comprehensive look at kind of the truth about what the research is saying, um, and when it can be helpful, when it's not helpful, and help you decide if it's something that you want to incorporate in your life and how much. Um, and if you enjoy the show, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a shout out on social media. Um, you can also leave us a rating and a review. That's always so, so helpful for small podcasts like this, just to show your love and appreciation. Um, for all the work that goes into making this every single week. Um, I appreciate all of you listening, and I will chat with you in the next episode. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the fit for hiking podcast. As always, I hope it leaves you feeling inspired and informed on how to take your health and adventure into your own hands. For more content like this, be sure to follow along with my daily posts at Ponytail Underscore. On a trail that's ponytail underscore on a trail. You can also stay up to date on my new episodes being released at Fit Underscore for hiking, and find more free resources at Pony Tail on a trail.com. Happy and healthy trails.