Latest / Legal Late Night / Your Law Firm's AI Blind Spot & The Future of Notarization (Eli Angote of the Best Notary)
Transcript
- Jared Correia (00:00): Hello everybody. We've still got to show the promises to be mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. Every law firm seems to be interested in ai, virtual receptionists as a potentially massive cost cutting maneuver. I've checked out some of these services and I have some thoughts after that. We've got Eli Angote of the Best Notary who talks to us about virtualizing the estate planning process and remote notarization. Lastly, I quiz Eli about weird things that people have added to their wills now from the files of ai. Ain't ready for all that yet. I've got a lot of law firms that are interested in virtual receptionist services that are AI based, and it's probably not surprising figuring out why that's the case. Probably the biggest thing is that there are potentially massive cost savings in play. If you have virtual receptionist services that you use for your law firm, you know that they can be pretty expensive. (01:16): The numbers tend to rack up the more calls you get, and it is a big expense for a law firm that especially does marketing, paid advertising and gets a lot of calls, not only calls from potential clients, calls from actual clients. You know how it's you fear a busy firm, your phone's ringing off the hook, so if you don't have to pay people to answer the phone, virtual receptionist or internal personnel, then you're cutting out a significant portion of your overhead. The other thing is consistency. So an AI agent that's programmed for your law firm's needs more than a bit. You're playing a little less agent roulette than you would be with a virtual receptionist service. I like virtual receptionist services, I recommend them for law firms, but you don't know necessarily who's picking up your phone at any given time. This is not hiring an administrative person to be your receptionist slash gatekeeper who sits in your office. (02:29): You may have a script that you provide that vendor, but the person who's picking up the phone may be different every time. The third thing, and maybe the biggest part of this is one of the coolest parts about AI virtual reception and its potential is that you've now got essentially an intelligence that can speak any language at any time. So you're not out there in job market looking for a receptionist who can speak English and Spanish or whatever other language combinations you're looking at. You've got a polyglot AI that can answer a call and decipher any language and have a conversation in that language that is truly impressive. So that all sounds really good, right? You're probably like, yeah, it's a great idea. Now here's the issue. I've vetted some of these providers and I have some concerns. (03:38): So what I wanted to do today is to offer a public service announcement much like Jay-Z speaking directly now to anyone who would want to create an AI-based virtual receptionist service that they're selling to lawyers. There are apparently a lot of folks doing that. The challenge is that none of them, at least the ones I've talked to, have a good sense of what lawyers need to do in terms of ethics rules and professional responsibility. So let's go over two big things with some subcategories and then we'll talk about a logistical issue first is that pretty much every AI virtual receptionist service that I've talked to, they are requiring call recording, which may be because that's the way the system works is they built it, and it may be because they just want to turn on call recording because they think it's a cool idea. I can get a transcript and I can do a bunch of things with that transcript. (04:44): That is true. That's a really cool idea. However, there are some legal issues with that, that if you're building one of these softwares, you should at least be aware of. The first is that there are two types of states in the United States in terms of recording permission. There are one party states where only one party to the conversation needs to give permission to record the meeting or phone call. And there are two party states where both parties need permission. So if you are setting up a system like this, you have to understand which states or one party states, which states are two party states, and what that means for your software under the regulation is an AI entity, even a party as defined under the law. It probably depends on the state and in most cases, maybe not. Now, if I'm a vendor and I'm working with attorneys regardless of the state they're in, I want to be able to set up a disclaimer or disclosure anyway. (05:57): So I need to be thinking about how do I acquire, I should say consent from the person who's on the other line, the lead, the client, whoever that AI virtual assistant is talking with, because lawyers are going to want that consent anyway. And if you are on recording systems, on virtual meetings, you know that everybody's being asked whether or not they're okay with recording anyway as a feature of that system, regardless of what state you're located in. The other thing to be thinking about as a vendor is do attorneys even want recordings? Because if I'm an attorney and I've got a lead, let's say that I don't have an attorney-client relationship with more on that in a second. What if somebody's disclosing confidential information to me? Do I even want a record of that? I may not. So this is a consideration you're going to want to wrestle with and that you're going to want to be able to have a conversation around with your potential leads, your clients, the lawyers. (07:00): Now the second thing, which I think is one of the biggest issues with AI virtual reception is this notion of creating an inadvertent attorney-client relationship. So in this instance, you are outsourcing the conversation to an AI that has fewer rails than a scripted conversation, or even in a lot of cases, someone on your team talking to a client or lead in this case because they're probably going to want to air on the side of caution. And if they have questions or if they think a conversation is going too far and they're varying into offering legal advice or suggesting that the client of leads already represented by the firm, say I'm doing it myself, they're going to go to an attorney and ask the question. So if a client believes that there's an attorney-client relationship with the firm, you may be on the hook for ethical malfeasance even if you don't think you represent that client or offer to represent that client. (08:00): So let's say somebody calls your office, they are under the reasonable belief that they are client of your firm and they blow a statute of limitations on a personal injury case and they file an ethics complaint against you. You may be on the hook for that if you've inadvertently created this attorney-client relationship as a lawyer. So if you're building one of these tools and you're talking to lawyers, this is a conversation you're going to want to have. How is the AI tool controlled in such a way that is not going to create these inadvertent attorney client relationships outside of a totally scripted environment or outside of a situation and the attorney controls with their employee or staff person, and in a lot of cases, you got to be thinking about what disclaimers you'd add here as well. So would your system be able to provide a disclaimer that says, Hey, during the course of this conversation, understand that there is no attorney-client relationship that is being formed, and that will only happen when you sign an engagement agreement with the law firm, yada, yada, yada. (09:09): All right, so those are the two big ethics issues you want to know about. And then there's a third ethics issue that's more generic if you're a legal tech software builder, startup, especially if you're in a virtual space, but also any kind of legal tech that you're building. Attorneys have software vetting requirements generally based on the ethics rules. So every ethics rule requires that an attorney have a reasonable understanding of legal technology, including the technology that they use or will be using. There's an implied vetting requirement there that if you're buying a software product or demoing a software product, that you got to understand how it works, and that includes how that software treats data security and data management. Now, there are specific state laws as well in some states that require business owners to vet software for data security. That's the case in Massachusetts where I live. (10:12): Basically, we have a data security statute, and if you're buying a software in the state, even if you're an attorney, you basically have to determine that the vendor is going to uphold the laws of the state in terms of data security. And so those are questions you're going to want to be asking as an attorney. And if you're one of these software vendors, those are questions you got to be ready to answer when attorneys ask them. Having those conversations will center around how you manage data, how you keep data secure, because remember, attorney data is highly confidential. What do you do about data ownership? Who owns the data? It's got to be the law firm. What does your terms of service reflect in terms of that conversation? You want to have answers ready about how you do security. You want to have answers ready about security certifications you have and what ones you're getting. (11:05): So you want to be thinking about that as you make pitches to law firms. One of the challenges is there are a lot of folks out there who want to sell software to lawyers because they think lawyers are marks. They think lawyers have a lot of money. They think lawyers don't understand technology. And so you got people coming from outside the industry who want to sell products into the industry, but don't necessarily understand the ethical and legal obligations that lawyers have when it comes to utilizing software, especially software that's so new and untested as virtual AI receptionists. So you're welcome folks. That's some free advice. And if you are an attorney and not a software developer, now you got a list of things that you can ask your potential vendors about next. If you're sick of signing meetings, you're going to want to listen up because we've got Eli and go of the best notary. It's a real hoot. So stay tuned. Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because this is a podcast. So I will simply now play the kazoo and I can take some requests. No, I'm not going to do that. I'm just fucking around. That sounds terrible. Maybe we should interview a guest instead. The good news is we have a great guest for today, and that's Eli Angote, the CEO at the Best Notary, not even the second best notary. The best notary Eli. How's it going, man? Eli Angote (12:46): Oh, it's going amazing. So happy to be here. Ever since I saw this on LinkedIn, I'm like, I would love to be a part of this. Jared Correia (12:52): Great. Alright, that's Eli Angote (12:54): Not bad. Late night. How can it or it can go wrong. Legal late Jared Correia (12:57): Night. Oh, everything can go wrong. Hopefully not today. Yes. So I was reading your LinkedIn profile the other day, and what I loved is you described yourself as a poly glo, and I was talking to my kids the other day and I was like, I'm trying to encourage them to do more things and expand their horizons. I'm like, you guys should be poly gloss. And they were like, what is that? So what is your polyglot experience? I know you threatened to maybe spit some bars here during the podcast when we talked on the phone. It seems like you play the piano. What do you got going on? Eli Angote (13:40): Yeah, I like to get some r and r doing things like deepening my French language proficiency. So the polyglot, basically, it's a person who speaks multiple languages. I don't know what point is it when you get to three or four, but because when you speak two, your bilingual, right, you speak three or trilingual. So maybe when you start to, Jared Correia (14:07): Is there a quad lingual or is that when you hit the polyglot level? Eli Angote (14:10): I feel like at some point you kind of make that jump. So I speak five. That's impress impressive. Maybe that's, I feel qualified to call myself a polyglot. I don't know who is handing out the certifications, Jared Correia (14:26): But essentially you got me beat. Eli Angote (14:28): Yeah, it's partially because I was born in Kenya, Jared, so everyone there typically grows up. If you were lucky enough to go to elementary school at a above, you're going to learn English in elementary because Kenya is a British colony. I grew up speaking at home, Swahili and Kiku. So Swahili is what everyone speaks. That would be English here in the us. And then Kiku is my mom's native language. There's a tribe called Kiku. So I spoke Kiku pretty fluently. I'm actually right now taking lessons every other weekend with my Kiku teacher so I could bring it back. Jared Correia (15:10): Oh, that's cool. Eli Angote (15:11): I could speak as fluently as I did when I was a kid. It's been a lot of fun. I actually just had a lesson on Sunday and my KU teacher gives me these cool proverbs, kaku proverbs that are really epic. I'll drop one out a little bit later that I just learned yesterday. How great. Yes, Phil, this pets. Yeah. Yeah. So Kiku English and Swahili right off the bat. Those are my native languages. I spoke all three and then before I came to the US to study computer science, I took three months of French at alliances, Fran, which is a French organization, community organization. (15:46): So I learned enough to be slightly dangerous in those three months slightly. And then at some point, as life took its terms and I went from computer science to economics to wanting to go to law school, ended up finishing up my undergrad in Spanish so that I'm definitely more than dangerous in Spanish because have a degree in it. So I got deep into the language into even what was the study syntax? It was a very cool course which took, that goes into how wards formed sound, how sounds become words. Oh, that's cool. A sound is called a phone name. And then if you combine multiple phone names, you start to build up all these words. I think it was called Spanish morphology and syntax. So I've got the Spanish down and then I'm like, wait a minute, now that I have the Spanish down, let's circle back to French Jared Correia (16:47): Because Eli Angote (16:47): They're very similar. Jared Correia (16:48): Well, those romance language is once you one those languages, right? Yeah. Once you figure one out, Eli Angote (16:53): You got the key went through Duolingo from beginning to end. I get through the whole thing, and then I chased that with a t-shirt in San Francisco who basically I met every other weekend. And then I also had a teacher online through an app called ING who I practiced French with. And then I met my partner Stephanie in 2019, and she had major in French. She's a double major French psychology. She lived in France for a year, and so we speak French all the time and watch French shows. So the French is now to the point where I can hold a barrier. Jared Correia (17:29): That's pretty good, man. Eli Angote (17:31): Yeah. So that's how I got to the polyglot. Jared Correia (17:35): I purposely took ancient Greek and Latin, so I would learn languages. I would never have to speak Smart Luke, Eli Angote (17:46): You call yourself a Jared Correia (17:48): Scholar. I'm a poly knot. I just read them. I can't speak. Eli Angote (17:54): I love that. That's a Jared Correia (17:55): Good one. Not what's next on your list. You have a next language that you want to learn. Eli Angote (18:02): I've got this really good. So my Malu brothers in Germany, so that could be good. Jared Correia (18:08): Oh man. German's tough, intense, lots of compound words. Eli Angote (18:10): Intense. It's really intense. I have a really good friend who's in the Netherlands, so perhaps Dutch. Jared Correia (18:19): Alright, well keep you posted. I'm interested to hear for sure, for sure. Absolutely. Do you want to drop that African proverb now or do you want to wait? Yeah, you teased it. I just want to bring us back around to that. Eli Angote (18:32): Yeah, no, it's really deep, man. So the proverb in Kaku Isga way, direct translation wealth has wings. Jared Correia (18:55): Oh dang. Oh, what a perfect segue. Now I want to talk to you about the business model. Can you talk to me a little bit about best notary? What do you guys do? What are you up to? Eli Angote (19:06): Yeah, yeah. So that's amazing point, right? So wealth has rings. What does that mean? So be humble because you don't know what the future breaks, it might fly away all that larger or whatever you've been fortunate to have. We know of many people who've lost their wealth. Jared Correia (19:27): So Eli Angote (19:28): We found ourselves after becoming a notary agency, serving a lot of busy folks by just matching them with an, we think of an Uber for notarization before we had the tech to do that. So there's a lot of notary agents out there. They're helping a lot of real estate companies bring the mortgage closing to the client's home. (19:50): So we got pulled into estate planning when the pandemic hit and we realized that there's a lot more need here than just for a notary. Their attorneys are doing everything themselves. These are really highly paid professionals, burning serious cash doing admin work. But the reason for that is because there wasn't a service that they could trust to outsource maybe the printing and the proofing of those documents. They'd have to find local staff, hire them and train them, and then be able to hopefully go beyond the solo practitioner into a two person law firm or more. So we found ourselves being asked to help with not just the notarization, but the sourcing and vetting of the witnesses because the clients have a hard time panel witness. Well, Jared Correia (20:38): Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Eli Angote (20:39): Right. We got brought, Jared Correia (20:40): That's a big issue. Yeah. Eli Angote (20:41): Oh, big issue. Especially in your state there, you need two witnesses who are not related to the person who's signing a Jared Correia (20:46): Well. We make everything harder. Eli Angote (20:49): Yeah. Talk about your recording system for moving for titles in real estate. Oh my Jared Correia (20:54): God, Eli Angote (20:54): I know chaos. Some people refuse to do business in places like New York. I'm not going to do business there because of the legacy, the archaic systems. Jared Correia (21:03): Oh yeah. Eli Angote (21:04): So essentially we became what we call a document concierge for estate planning attorneys to bring that signing ceremony of that wealth preservation tool called estate planning. Those documents, the trust will and supporting documents to the client's home, which means they can serve more clients across their entire state of their licensed in, and they can also work more efficiently, spend their time where it's most needed, which is a strategy, perhaps some rainmaking talking to coaches like you so they can start to think about how they could grow their offer. They could price it better. So we became more than just a delivery mechanism. We also became a source of trusted advisors like yourself, all the amazing coaches that I bring to speak to them, Jared Correia (21:57): Trusted Eli Angote (21:58): Advisors speak a series, and also just to bring them ideas and tools and technology that they can use to grow their businesses. Jared Correia (22:06): So I feel like that's got to be really appealing for estate planning attorneys. I talked to estate planning attorneys, they complain about all that stuff. Every single aspect of what you just talked about, outsourcing that as the dream until they see the price tag, Eli Angote (22:22): Jared, and then they go like, no, no, hold up. Wait, I'm currently not paying for this because they're doing it themselves. You're paying for it in other ways. And the question always is, how do I pass the cost onto my client? What are your other lawyers doing? (22:39): So it becomes a conversation about how can you look at the overall picture of your business and not just the cost, the perceived cost of delegating, the signing meeting taken off six to eight hours off of what you have to do or manage. I know. Yeah. Which means that instead of you spending a couple hours, if you're billing at 500 bucks, even three hours is six, $1,500. So we charge a fraction of that and give them back that peace of mind and that time and also allow them to really delight their clients with that kind of concierge signup, whole experience either online, you now can thankfully leverage remote online notarization, which this self-driving car type of thing where it's like what? It's not even legit. It's been legit since 2011. So a lot of education also, Jared goes into what we do, Jared Correia (23:33): Educate power. I do think a lot of the attorneys, and I think this is true of most business owners, they always look at the cost rather than the profitability. And if you look at it from a profitability, it is kind of a no-brainer completely. So what you just said is interesting. I think a lot of lawyers, if you talk to them about it, assuming they can figure out the profitability part of it is like, that sounds great. I'll do that. But I feel like the hold up for some attorneys is like you just said, is this legit and is it legit? If I wanted to do full scale outsourced estate plan stuff with you, to the extent I could do it, is that available in every state? Are there issues that people need to be looking at as far as compliance? I could see that being a reason why people are like, ah, maybe not for Eli Angote (24:21): Me. When it comes to the mechanics, are you talking about the remote online or just the outsourcing and having someone else take care of the notarization and everything else around Jared Correia (24:33): It? If there are issues with both, let's do both. Eli Angote (24:36): Okay. Okay. So let's start here. Jared Correia (24:38): We got nothing but time, man. Eli Angote (24:40): I love it. I love it. Jared, you are going right to the heart of this. Yeah, I'm pride. It's just lack of something similar to compare us to. The only thing that compares to honestly is that local hire who you bring into your office under your supervision and control, either or part-time to do work for you where you know that everything is safe and controlled. So one attorney told me that they didn't even think about hiring notaries because there is this fear in Massachusetts that this contractor can be perceived as an employee, right? Jared Correia (25:20): Yeah. Eli Angote (25:21): Just four years in I'm learning about this. And I was like, wow. That's one of the reasons why you've never even thought to outsource just the signing, just the notary part. You can print the documents to do everything else and else, but just having that other person come and represent you in that signature ceremony seems like that was a challenge. And so when we come in as an outsourced company that isn't having that direct relationship with our contractor, that checks out that box because now they're not potentially misclassifying employees and risking that backlash from whatever the state regulating entity is. So I think one of the biggest things that I learned was a thing that prevented attorneys from thinking about this. And then the second one is just making sure that everything, if it's done promptly, just the qa, that every notary block is completed properly. Every place that needs a signature, needs a initial. These things can make or break as an entire families either go to probate or not. If something is off, you might end up going through the probate process. (26:37): So the stakes are really, really high. So I think attorneys are correct in being very careful about who they let do these things. And so I think by really taking my, somewhere in there, I got a paralegal degree too. So I knew enough to have the detail to create very thorough checklists and to vet carefully for notaries who already had experience with some estate planning signings. We love working with people who have worked at law firms either as paralegals or as legal systems. So now there's less room for them to make some really egregious mistakes like letting someone who is an interested family member sign off as a witness on the will because well, they're an adult over 18. Well now when it comes to wills, if they're interested, if they stand to benefit that them being a witness, it pretty much excludes them from being a beneficiary. So some of these basic things that, for example, the trust has to be signed before the will because the will is a pour over instrument. So the assign of folks out there we're just signing documents, but some of my in whatever order. Exactly. Right. So by having a signing checklist and us preparing the documents ahead, come and flagging everything with color coded systems for the in-person signings, we are really mitigating a lot of the fears that attorneys have and that's why they keep everything in house. Jared Correia (28:08): So tell me if I'm talking out of my ass here because you know this better than I do, but are there different record keeping requirements if someone's doing a virtual transaction? In some states? Eli Angote (28:18): Yes. Yes. So depending on the state, it's either five years or 10 years. But that's for the video, not the documents themselves. Those Jared Correia (28:26): Do people have issues with that or they like, I don't know if I want to maintain that record and then how do I do it? What do you tell people about that? Eli Angote (28:34): So the burden really falls on the notary. That's really who is basically has to comply with the remote online notary laws. So because we have built on platform, we bring the notary into the platform and we've got the DocuSign with the 5 0 9 security features that are needed for that. The digital certificate, we've got the video storage mechanism to store those files for five years or more. We have a journal of every document those notarized during that notary session. So we can provide that to anybody upon request. And that is essentially what we do also for the notary, right? The notary may not have a platform that can do all of that properly. So we provide that for the notary as well. So it's also, there's very advanced identity protocol. We have something called KBA knowledge based authentication, which means we give you two minutes to answer five questions based on your public data that only you would know and your name being unique. There might not be other people with that same name. So it's pretty straightforward for you to get five questions generated. You've lived in the US for a long time, so it might not work for folks who have not been in the US for a long time or who might not be us people. So in those cases, we can bring a credible witness in, (30:00): Which is somebody who can swear that they know you and they can serve as your id, provided that they pass the KBA and then of course their ID gets scanned as well. Credential analysis. So we provide all of this for the notaries figure that the themselves, or that's expense platform that might charge 'em a lot for each signing. So by also prepare the documents inhouse the document tagging an estate plan has 25 documents. Each of them have to be signed once or twice. Some of them have choices to be made on the healthcare side. So we take care of all of those little pieces so that the notary doesn't have to, the notary is not typically a trained estate planning paralegal, so that's going to be hit or miss if you go directly to a notary who's doing this on their own. So we've built something that's very bespoke geron for estate planning, which is why a lot of attorneys are coming to us, especially when they're growing, some of those more seasoned firms out there who want the efficiencies. So that's where we are right now, just educating and trying to improve that system. So as efficient as possible, Jared Correia (31:08): I love process. All right. The other thing you meant, and this goes back to your proverb, you talk about trying to bridge the global wealth divide. So what does that mean to you and why is it important to you as a business Eli Angote (31:22): Owner? Well, Jared, not everyone in this country has the luxury of working from home. I find that I'm very privileged as you are, right? To be able to do our work, right? Jared Correia (31:34): Yes, very much so. Eli Angote (31:35): We're very lucky. That means that people have to take time off of work to drive to that attorney's office for that initial consult. And guess what the lawyer's going to say, okay, when the documents are ready, we want you to come in and sign your documents. That's another, depending on how far you live from the lawyer's office, Jared Correia (31:53): Another thing to Eli Angote (31:53): Do to three hours. And then they might say, Hey, now you got to come back and pick up the binder so we can go over the funding process. Jared Correia (32:02): Yes. Eli Angote (32:03): Do you see how this is kind of adding up you a little bit? Jared Correia (32:06): I'm already out when I had to leave my house. Eli Angote (32:10): So you've got small children, which we have to get care for them if you are the primary caregiver for them. So I think by removing those roadblocks of that in-person meeting, having to happen through times, it could be zero times Jared Correia (32:26): If their Eli Angote (32:26): Attorney is leveraging a system like ours. So that's number one, right? Number two is just the work that we take away from that because most firms are typically small firms that do this kind of work. Some of there is a handful of really Jared Correia (32:41): Big law. Yeah, there's not really massive estate planning firms. Eli Angote (32:44): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So by outsourcing the admin, the lawyers can serve more people. They can really focus on more of their speaking and do those seminars and workshops. That typically is how people discover that they need this and then just have higher throughput because we are basically just giving them back all these hours and they can hire that second associate if they're truly enterprising. So by doing this, Jared, we feel like we are increasing access. That rural family that had to drive five hours to go to the next big town to get this done doesn't have to because we're going to find those six notaries there and equip them with the tools they need to deliver that. I have a little Onur client who is licensed in with Utah and New York. So the first signing he had us do was out in Lasal, Utah, lasal, L-A-S-A-L, this super remote town of like 500 people. But guess what? That's Jared Correia (33:46): Where I'm from. No, I'm just kidding. Eli Angote (33:49): We ruled out three adults who met all the qualifications and we orchestrated the site. It was a work of art. Jared. That's awesome. Against all odds, I think the notary brought back a couple of family members as witness we're so hard because not only we find other notaries as witnesses that made Notary does a signing because they're all trained in identifying people, they fully understand that repercussions. They might have to be called into court at some point. We always make our notary sign a little acknowledgement that I understand that by serving as a witness, I might be calling the court to testify. Right, Jared Correia (34:26): Right, right, right. That is a beautiful story. That's cool. I mean, it's cool when you can do something like that through a business. So people may not be surprised to learn this, but I think I've heard that you've got your own podcast as well, right? Eli Angote (34:44): I do. So Jared Correia (34:46): This is, do I have it right? This is Eli motivates. Eli Angote (34:49): Eli motivates. Yeah. Jared Correia (34:51): I'm personally already motivated, but please go into it. Eli Angote (34:55): No, that was a little experiment. It kind of fizzled out after four episodes. I don't think I understood how hard it's Jared Correia (35:03): To. Alright, everybody, I'm looking in the camera. It sucks. Eli Angote (35:07): No, it's a lot of work. I mean, look at you. You've got a producer that keeps I know, man, I can do this by myself. Keeps, yeah, he was on time. You are not calling you out there. Little Jared Correia (35:16): Bit. Eli Angote (35:19): That's every Jared Correia (35:19): Session. Eli Angote (35:21): That's what he said to me. That's exactly what he said to me. Right? I was late too, mother Chad. Good, good, good. I feel better. So I think when you're a founder doing a lot of things, you did the right thing. You found a professional to bring in, to keep you accountable, to do the things that maybe you might not be great at. You might be a great host and you ask great questions by the way, but thank you. The editing. The editing and the finding the right tool to use and oh, it's such a pain in the mirror. So that's why I fizzled out. But guess what? I'm going to come back. Jared Correia (35:51): Something even bigger. Eli Angote (35:52): Yes, something really big in the Jared Correia (35:54): Works. Okay. Oh really? Okay. Nothing you can talk about, right? Not Eli Angote (35:59): Yet. I mean, I could share the concept. So the concept, I'm going to call it soju. Soju. A modern Sankofa story is about the intersection of social justice. Okay? Wealth and death. So wow, this sounds great. I'm in. And the whole idea is how do we, starting by acknowledging that we're all going to die, how do we, wow, Jared Correia (36:25): We took a dark turn here. No, please Eli Angote (36:27): Go on. We did. We did. Because that's what we do. We're in the business of essentially death planning and distributing death finders to people and our death finders every day to people who are thinking about death and take the time to put on paper what their plans and wishes are. So how do we leverage our time, treasure, and talent, right? Well wealth and wealth comes in all flavors, right? Social, financial influence, all of these things. How do we use all of that wealth to advance equity in a world that is extremely Jared Correia (37:01): Logical? Oh, that's cool. Oh, student lopsided. I'm looking forward to let me know when that comes out. I'll definitely help promote it. Whatever form that takes. I love the concept for a long time. Last thing I want to ask you, you also describe yourself as an ultra connector, which I really like. How does one become an ultra connector? Is Voltron involved or what is happening here? Eli Angote (37:26): No extreme body modifications. You don't have to become a transformer, right? Jared Correia (37:32): Yeah, Eli Angote (37:33): That Jared Correia (37:33): Too. Eli Angote (37:33): Alright. You do have to become a little uncomfortable, Jared. You have to kind of stretch beyond your comfort zone and say hello to a few strangers a couple of times a day. I know that sounds like a lot, but Jared Correia (37:47): I'm in physical pain just thinking about Eli Angote (37:49): It. It's stressful. What if they're like a psycho? Jared Correia (37:54): What Eli Angote (37:54): If they like, I don't dunno, this dude, what if they're a hacker or they like hack my computer and then hijack me? We don't know. But I think by continuously reaching out to people and starting conversations, you begin to find that, oh, this person actually could add a lot of value for my friend Wendy, who you and I both know. And then maybe I'm going to check with Wendy and see if I can make an introduction. So I think at some point I read Keith Azis Never e Alone. I dunno if you know about him. He's a consultant. Jared Correia (38:27): Yeah, I've heard, I haven't read the book, but I've heard about it. Eli Angote (38:31): Yeah. The book totally changed my life because Jared Cher is another kind of influencer on live podcast and on what he recommended was look through contacts, see two people who look like they should know each other and just introduce him. I don't even check, just make an intro. And I was like, that is the weirdest thing and have never, never, right. Proactively trying to add value. I think Keith, talk about having five packets of value, right? Five things you can bring to people that can help them, whether it's a recommending a software tool, dropping a news tidbit that could be helpful for them, someone they should know, or a book they should read. Because everyone according to Keith wants three things, right? Health, wealth, and children. And if you don't want kids, you might want to partner. So that's how, Jared Correia (39:26): That's the substitute. Yeah. Eli Angote (39:29): So if you can bring something to people that will advance any of those three things, they're going to notice you. And because we're all humans and humans tend to reciprocate because that's just how we're wired to become people who are altruistic. You ask a philosophy guy, then a good percentage will reciprocate. And the whole process is just to watch and see who is reciprocating. And David Acker, who's speaking in our speaker series next Jared Correia (39:59): Wednesday, Acker advisory people aren't unaware. Eli Angote (40:01): David Acker Pipeline Plus they do like this dev Jared Correia (40:04): Advisory, Eli Angote (40:05): The law firms. So he's going to say that that's what's going to become a shortlist, nine to 35 people that you can build an intentional relationship with where the value is falling on both sides. So you Jared, are in my shortlist because Jared Correia (40:21): Oh Eli Angote (40:22): Wow, you're putting me in front of your entire audience. Dead. Literally billions of people dead huge. I know. Know you like this, Jared Correia (40:31): Figuratively. Eli Angote (40:32): Yeah, right. You're a beacon of light when it comes to those ready to get out of their cages, right? Yeah. Jared Correia (40:40): Talk to my kids Eli Angote (40:41): About Jared Correia (40:41): That. Eli Angote (40:44): And you got that as Han, I just noticed that. See, you're resonating with your audience. So that's why I call myself a ultra connector, is that now for me, it's a context board, right? Mini EA tells me that half of her time, she's fielding introductions, people coming in and going out. And that's how I think we're able to penetrate the estate planning industry and it's adjacent to the industry, the wealth management, the corporate trustee world. So building these connections now where we're talking to some people in big law and to see where the gaps are there. So it's exciting. And also fundraising. We are raising a seed route right now, Jared. So that's when these connections become really, really important. Yeah, Jared Correia (41:31): I love that. That's a great pun. It's a context for, I think we should end on that note for the interview portion. Do you want to come back for another segment? Eli Angote (41:42): Oh, Jared, I would be thrilled to come back. This has been so cool to, as you said, right off the cuff, just riff through. Jared Correia (41:49): Oh yeah. I don't Eli Angote (41:50): Script anything. Jared Correia (41:52): I dunno if people think that's true, but I don't do a script. Eli Angote (41:56): I like it. I like it. It just flows. It just blows. Jared Correia (41:58): We'll be right back with Eli and go from the best notary. Welcome to the counter program. We're back. It's a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated topics that I want to explore at a greater depth with my guest. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. Eli, welcome back. How are you feeling? Oh, excited. Can I wait to experience this? Today we're going to launch a new segment. It's called The Gift That Keeps on Giving. Now, Eli, this should be right up your alley. We're going to talk about death. Alright? Eli Angote (42:42): Ooh. Scary. Jared Correia (42:44): So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to tell you something really crazy that a celebrity bequeathed in his or her will, and you just need to tell me which celebrity it was. Okay? I got six questions for you. I'll give you multiple choice. It shouldn't be too bad. Okay? But we'll just get started. We'll see how it goes. Let me know if you have any questions about the format as we move forward. Sure. Okay. This singer's will included extremely detailed and unusual instructions for the care of her cat, Nicholas. She stipulated that Nicholas was to be fed imported baby food, sleep in an indoor treehouse, have his bed lined with her nightgown and pillowcase, and be serenaded with her records every night. She also requested that the cat be married to a friend's, a female cat. Nicholas is living like a better life than me, frankly. I can't remember the last time I've had imported baby food. Eli Angote (43:46): Yeah, Jared Correia (43:46): I didn't even know that was a thing. Sounds really fancy. So was this singer, Amy Winehouse, dusty Springfield or Janice Joplin? Amy Winehouse, dusty Springfield. Janice Joplin Nicholas's owner. Eli Angote (44:09): Wow. I think is Janice Joplin. She passed. I believe she's still around. Jared Correia (44:15): Oh, Janice Joplin. Yeah, she died in this late sixties, I think. Drug overdose. Eli Angote (44:20): She's a little of a hippie. I dunno. Should Jared Correia (44:21): Be that. Okay. Alright. See, this is why I like having legal people on because they reason Eli Angote (44:26): Things Jared Correia (44:26): Out. All right, so you're eliminating Janice Joplin. Eli Angote (44:29): Yeah. Then Amy Winehouse. She's kind of more like just a free spirit too. So this Darcy lady, I'm not sure who she is, but I think it might be Mark. Jared Correia (44:44): It is and it is Dusty Springfield, who is, she was like a sixties, seventies Brit pop type of person Song son. A preacher man. Eli Angote (44:55): I think I've heard it. Yeah, I think I have heard that. That's Jared Correia (44:57): Dusty Eli Angote (44:57): Springfield. That's what she like. Yeah. Jared Correia (45:00): Alright, number two. This philosopher, this British philosopher requested that his body be preserved and put on public display. So his body dressed in his own clothes with his head replaced by a wax effigy is still kept in the glass cabinet at University College London. Is this Jeremy Bentham, Francis Bacon or Bertrand Russell? Jeremy Bentham, Francis Bacon Bertand Russell, whose body actually still sits in a glass case in University College London. Eli Angote (45:36): I'm familiar with the last two Bacon and Bertand. This first guy I think is weird enough. That's why he famous. I could be wrong, but I'm going to check. Yeah, I'm going to go with that. Bentham. Jared Correia (45:54): You're in my head, man. Jeremy Bentham. That's correct. He's still there. You can go look at it online. It's called the Auto Icon. I don't know that I would be wannabe going to University College London if that shit's happening. It's wild. Eli Angote (46:10): Bizarre. Bizarre. Jared Correia (46:11): Alright, you're two for two. Not to put any pressure on you. Eli Angote (46:14): Hey, I'm trying. Jared, Jared Correia (46:17): This German author and poet left his entire estate to his wife, but only on the condition that she would remarry when asked for his reasoning. He reportedly said it was so, there will be at least one man to regret my death. Rough. What character? Okay, is this Franz Kafka. Bertold Brecht or Heinrich? Hein, France. Kafka, Bertold Bre or Heinrich Hein. Now this will be good for when you learn German. All right? Eli Angote (46:52): Yeah. Jared Correia (46:52): Who do you like? Eli Angote (46:54): Kafka had those right page long sentences. I try to read The Metamorphos. Never quite got through it. Ah, I love that book. Is he considered a philosopher or is he more just an author? Jared Correia (47:06): Ah, probably more of an author. Yeah. So these are all authors. This guy was an author and a poet, maybe a philosopher. I, Eli Angote (47:13): I dunno, author and a poet. My goodness. I'm going to go with the middle person. Pure guest. This Paul Plague. Jared Correia (47:23): We're now two for three. It was Heinrich Hein. I know nothing about him other than he did this. Eli Angote (47:28): All right, Jared Correia (47:29): Let's move on. Eli Angote (47:31): Right. Jared Correia (47:32): This science fiction pioneer had a lifelong fascination with space. After his death at his request, his asterisks were put into a special capsule and launched into Earth's orbit on a rocket. Unfortunately, the capsule reentered the atmosphere years later, but a subsequent space barely in 1997 worked and his wife's ashes were later sent out on the same journey. So who had his ashes shot into space? Rod Sterling, gene Roddenberry or Isaac Asimov, rod Sterling, gene Roddenberry or Isaac Asimov. Who do you like familiar with those last two obvious reasons? Yes. Rod Sterling, Twilight zone guy. He's the guy who did the Twilight Zone. Eli Angote (48:23): Ah, let's go with that Twilight Zone guy. Jared Correia (48:26): Oh, I feel like I led you astray on this one. You want to take a second guess. Eli Angote (48:31): Okay. I mean, I guess Asimov. Jared Correia (48:34): Oh, alright. Well I guess I led you even further astray than I shot. Gene Roddenberry. Gene Roddenberry Eli Angote (48:40): Watch like right, star Trek. Star Trek, yeah. Yeah. Which very apt. I mean that's something that one would do. Makes sense. Totally up his alley. Jared Correia (48:49): So Gene Roddenberry is cranking out somewhere past the crab nebula, I dunno. Alright, we got two more for you. In this magician's, will he requested that his wife hold a seance every year. On the anniversary of his death, he gave her a secret code of 10 words that if a medium were to communicate them would prove that he had successfully made contact from beyond the grave. Seances were held for 10 years, but the correct code was never delivered. Who is this magician? Paul Daniels. Tommy Cooper or Harry Houdini? Paul Daniels. Tommy Cooper. Harry Houdini. Eli Angote (49:33): Dini is definitely the one that I recognized there. So complete crapshoot, but I'll go with Houdini. Jared Correia (49:43): Yes, correct. Correct. Eli Angote (49:47): Nice plant there, Jared. Nice Jared Correia (49:48): Plant. I mean, how many famous magicians are there that are dead? I don't know. Most of 'em are still alive. It's like David Copperfield and those dudes Eli Angote (49:56): Are all alive. David Copperfield. That's what I was thinking about. Jared Correia (50:00): You've crushed it so far. I think we're at three of five Eli Angote (50:03): And Jared Correia (50:03): I got one more for you to go over. 504 6. This would be a pretty heavy duty score in the counter program. Okay. This inventor was so proud of his creation that he requested to be buried in one. This former organic chemist had his children fulfill a request and his ashes were placed in the named container and interned in his grave. So was Earl Dean buried in a Coke bottle or was Frederick Bauer buried in a Pringles can? Or was Theodore Tobler buried in a toone wrapper? Eli Angote (50:49): You're making this up. Seriously? All of them sound weird. Af coke bottle PR can, Jared Correia (50:57): It could be all or toone wrap. It could be all of the above, but it's not Earl Dean Coke bottle. Frederick Bauer Pringle scan. Theodore Tobler. Toblerone wrapper. Eli Angote (51:12): I'm going to go with the Pringle scan. This goes to engineering wise. Much easier to put together. Jared Correia (51:17): Did I get it? Well done. Well done. Pretty good, man. I'm impressed. I was talking to, I asked my wife the other day, I'm like, what do you think of this? This guy was buried in a Pringle can. And she's like, well, Pringle cans are solidly built. So there we go. Eli Angote (51:32): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Jared Correia (51:35): Well plated, sir. Thank you. Eli Angote (51:37): Yeah, Jared Correia (51:37): Modern sarcophagus, right? Eli Angote (51:39): It's like futuristic sarcophagus. Jared Correia (51:41): Yes. We'll all be bearing and Pringle cans shot up through the atmosphere. Eli Angote (51:47): Thank Jared Correia (51:47): You. Yeah, Eli Angote (51:47): Thanks for having me. And also, you're going to come and speak to my trusted advisor audience soon. Jared Correia (51:51): I would love to. Yeah. That's going to be amazing. And the podcast. And the podcast. Oh, both. Alright. Awesome, man. (51:57): Thanks for our guest, Eli Angote of the Best Notary. To learn more about Eli and the best notary, visit the best notary.net, not.com.net. The best notary all one word.net. Check 'em out now because I'll always be a nineties kid just heating up some Ilios pizza in the microwave. Again, that motherfucker real crusty, but whose true passion is burning CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the modern version of that, which is creating Spotify playlists for every podcast episode that I record where the songs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's playlist is songs about death while that's uplifting and it's sponsored by coffin flop from Corncob tv. I'm just kidding. By the way, that's not even a real show or even a real television network, but I wish it was. In fact, I'm going to call Spectrum right now and say, I'm not worried about this. I'm not worried about any of this. There's worse shit on the local news. Join us next time when I eat a soul, if those fucking flying demons from Harry Potter can do it than so can I.