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Permission to fire:How an SEO Founder Keeps Clients for 16 Years | Do Small Business Like a Big Boss · Do Small Business Like a Big Boss Podcast

• speaker-0: and then now today in twenty twenty six it really has morphed and transformed into AI SEO, which is trying to get those businesses better visibility on these chat programs like ChatGPT or Perplexity Gemini. So the impact has been significant, but it's been a little slower of a burn than I think people would expect. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that SEO is dead over the last twenty-three years of my career, maybe I'd be retired by now. speaker-1: Welcome to Do Small Business Like a Big Boss, where we explore the real stories, hard-earned lessons, and game-changing strategies of entrepreneurs who've moved beyond the side hustle and build businesses that scale with confidence. I'm your host, Aisha Jorge Massingill, your small business legal guide. Let's dive in. What up, bosses? Welcome to the latest episode of Do Small Business Like a Big Boss. I am your host, Aisha Jorge Massingill, your small business legal guide. And today I'm really excited to welcome Pete Kleinjohn to the show. Pete is the founder of Tiger 29, a Sioux Falls, South Dakota SEO and digital marketing agency. He started way back in 2009 after cutting his teeth in SEO in 2003. He built the agency around one idea: local service businesses, plumbers, HVAC companies, lawyers, therapists deserve to compete online without needing a national brand's budget. Today, Tiger29's work reaches clients across more than 20 states, and Pete's built a reputation for proving value up front, most famously through his SEO Power Hour, a live $150 session where he makes real visible improvements to businesses online's presence before anyone signs a contract. He's spoken at AgencyCon and shown up on podcasts like this one across local SEO and small business marketing space and outside of Tiger 29. He's active in the Sioux Falls community as a church deacon and nonprofit board member. Woo! Welcome, Pete. speaker-0: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Aisha. I'm excited. speaker-1: Well, I'm really excited about this conversation. as I said it kind of in the pre-show, you know, I love the Marvel movies and we always talk about the origin story for every superhero. So ground us back in 2009, right before Tiger 29 existed, what was the thing that you heard that said, hey, I could do this too? speaker-0: So and maybe even rewind a little bit further back. I had started my career as just a salesperson. I was a sales guy, wanted to sell stuff, and I asked my boss, how can I help? He said, Not sure. Talk to the web guys, I talked to them. They sent me an a Wikipedia article about search engine optimization. I read it, went back to them with questions, and that's how my first my career actually really got started in search engine optimization. Fast forward to 2009. I had a good job with the same company. I liked what I was doing. I liked the people that I was working with. but I just felt like actually we had our first child at the time. My first daughter was born. And I thought, you know, I don't know if I want to be driving to an office, working forty hours a week for the rest of my life. I I kinda want something better. and that was really the thing that tipped me over the edge and and made me start my own company was just a desire to have something better. Not even necessarily something more, but just something better. speaker-1: I love that. So just so that everyone is operating from the same playbook, let's spend a little bit of time telling folks about what SEO is and what it does for small businesses out on the interwebs. speaker-0: Yeah, so and and there's a lot of misconceptions about SEO, and especially now in the era of AI coming on the f on on the forefront for everybody. so search engine optimization is basically trying to get a small business more visibility primarily on Google. and then now today in twenty twenty six it really has morphed and transformed into AI SEO, which is trying to get those businesses better visibility on these chat programs like Chat GPT or Perplexity, Gemini. and of course Google AI overviews which show up at the top of Google now. speaker-1: And so now I'm allowing myself to go on another wild tangent about SEO because sometimes I hear SEO is dead. It's really about getting your information stuffed into the large language models. You have a business that is built on SEO optimization, if you will. how have you experienced that impact of the large language models on your SEO business? speaker-0: So the impact has been significant, but it's been a little slower of a burn than I think people would expect. I think a lot of people think of search engine optimization as a flash in the pan. We're gonna manipulate Google into showing my business first at the top of search engine results. I've really started to think of it as digital brand optimization, representing your brand authentically and well. And when you do that, these answer engines are gonna surface your brand more and more often. there's a lot of misconceptions about how these platforms work. And there's a lot of snake oil salesmen like there always has been in search engine optimization. but there are definitely some strategies that work. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that SEO is dead over the last twenty-three years of my career, maybe I'd be retired by now. but it's it's still alive and kicking and it's has a big payoff for the right businesses that I have the right strategy. speaker-1: Well, that's that's great to hear. And you just said for twenty-three years. So like you said, maybe it's a slow burn and and it w it it won't impact you. Okay, I am really curious about the name. Even before we came on, I always asked my guests how to say the name. So Tiger Twenty Nine, tell us about how you arrived at that name. speaker-0: So and this will show you how much of a great marketer I am, but I my company originally had a different name. we had a big client who wanted to acquire the name, not the business, just the business name. and it really didn't mean a lot to me at that time, so I sold him that business name. I had to come up with something new. I did a little bit of reading back in those days. There really weren't podcasts or that kind of stuff. and at the time they said, Well, you should choose an animal or a color because it sticks in people's minds, and then a number. also sticks in people's minds. And at that time in the state of South Dakota, there was an economic development thing involved with the I-29 corridor that runs through the state. and I thought a tiger is kind of a stealthy, intelligent, predatory animal that can make its way in the world. And so Tiger twenty nine came out of that. speaker-1: That. I really do. When I first started thinking about starting my own practice, and this was a long time ago, I think I was like trying to think of a name, and this is gonna date myself, that would make me appear earlier in the phone book. And one of my big brothers mentors brought me aside and he was just like, You're so much bigger than that. Why are you worried about that, mess? Like, come on. And so now when I'm choosing names for all the things that I'm involved in, like I'm super intentional about making making the connection. So I love the idea of the animal and then the the number. We we I'm here in Maryland and we have like a an I-29 corridor that's very important for us. So I love the combination and hopefully you know 23 years in it's it's proven to be successful for you. tell me what those very few like the first months of running now Tiger 29. Hope you got a good bag for the for the other name. But what did it actually look like like week to week and how were you juggling everything in the early days? speaker-0: So in the early days it was written if you've heard the cliche, do you own a job or do you own a business? I definitely owned a job in those early days where my first client was that employer that I worked for back in from two thousand three to two thousand nine. that was my only client. and so I basically The only difference was as I was working from home instead of driving to the office every day. as time went by, I kind of realized like, hey, you don't really have a business. This thing isn't going to be sustainable forever with one client. What if you get fired? What if he sells? Like all that stuff. and so we started to try to be a little more active in growing the business and and basically that started with being active in the community. So I spent a lot of time at networking events, meeting people, talking about what I was doing, how it might impact their business. and a lot of times even telling them if it wasn't a good fit. if they had a business that I didn't think I could help, I was pretty open about that in the early days, even if I needed that revenue or wanted that revenue. And I think that honesty pays off in the end because even sometimes you get referrals from those people where they say, Hey, I talked to this guy, he knows what he's doing, he's honest, he wasn't just taking my money to to run a campaign. you might want to have a conversation with him about your SEO. speaker-1: Yeah, that that's incredible. can you tell me a little bit more about how you were able to recognize the difference between running a business and having another job? Because I think for entrepreneurs who are in their early stages, they may not appreciate that nuance. speaker-0: Yeah, so and I don't think I did either, Aisha. and really what it took through some of those networking events. I met a guy who was a a business coach, basically a a growth coach. he shared a book with me. I joined one of his groups, and it was really sort of a a mindset shift of like, Hey, I I didn't know what I was doing and maybe to some degree I still don't know what I'm doing running a business you you learn every day. and that was one of those big early things that I learned was just Some of that expertise and perspective from somebody who had been a little bit further down the road, had seen a few more things, and started to open my eyes to some concepts and some ideas that I had never even thought of before. speaker-1: You just wrote the opening to my show. Thank you. That's that's the purpose for which this show exists. And and also the importance of the experiential living. P anyone who listens to this show here hears me talk about AI quite a bit, because I actually love AI, but the thing that you miss is the experience. Like you don't you have to marry like that been there before. So I can tick off all the things, but the experience that you talk about is really, really important. So after you realize the one, you know, you it was a mindset thing. So you needed exposure to that, you needed exposure to the coach, I would imagine that there were still some moments of uncertainty where you're like, should I be betting on myself to continue to be out on my own? I got this one client. This one client goes away. My my business or my side job goes away. How did you kind of overcome any of the doubt that may have accompanied that? speaker-0: Well, that's a good question. And I think it's a lot of small business owners have those doubts. And to be honest, I think a lot of small business owners continue to have those doubts, myself included, as time goes by and and the challenges get bigger as time goes by. I often think about the things that are just another Tuesday afternoon for me today might have made me quit, you know, twenty years ago. If I if I and and you kind of build that strength and you build that resilience over time. There were some things that happened early on, that were definitely challenging in business. but I think it was just the fact of like, hey, I can overcome these. I have people in my circle, I have people I can talk to through those networking things that I had been going to, people that I trusted that I could share some things with, get their perspective. and it really, you know, even if it wasn't a a paid team, you know, that was working with me, it was a it was a team and it was people that I could go to for that support that I needed. speaker-1: And were there I I always think of life in buckets. What buckets did some of the adversity fall into? For example, monetary, operational, you know, relational. What maybe were some of the buckets where you were hitting speed bumps along the way? speaker-0: Yeah. Well I'll tell you a big one was starting out and this is a a lot of times people in other states kinda look at me sideways when I say this, but we had a sales tax issue where I thought I was doing it right. My bookkeeper thought we were doing it right, until we got a letter from the state of South Dakota that said, like, Hey, we think there's something here you guys need to look at and we'd like to take a look at it too. and so we looked at it and we weren't doing it right, or at least the state didn't think that we were. and they sent me a big bill. and that was a time where I thought, my gosh, this is not good. Is have I am I really doing the right thing here? Is this the way that it's gonna go being in business? and fortunately, my bookkeeper still use them to this day. those thing and that's part of the great thing about having people around you with that experience. To me, I got that letter and and you've maybe gotten letters like that in your career too, where like you open it up and you start reading and your hands start to shake and your head starts your heart starts to pound. I call them up and they're like, yeah, no big deal. we'll take care of it. let it they deal with it all the time. and they help me through it. And I don't know what I would have done if it wasn't for them. I I just don't really know. But that that was a big part of getting through that sort of financial turmoil early on, that unexpected, you know, sales tax bill that came due, was having the right people that could say, like, hey, it's gonna be okay. Everybody deals with things like these from time to time. here's how you do it. Here's the roadmap, here's what it's gonna look like on the other side, and then you just adjust. speaker-1: That's I'm glad that you had someone like that in your corner. I often talk about those folks in the context of foxhole people. Like in my as a as a service provider, you know, my job is to get my clients through circumstances like that in a way that gives them comfort. Like been there, done that, not to imply that it's fun. but giving them confidence that, like, okay, not so great that we got this. Here are the steps that we need to take. We're gonna get through it. Right. and so it's wonderful that you you had someone like that on your side. We're gonna take a quick pause. because I just want to say to my bosses: if this conversation is giving you something, anything of value, do me a favor, hit like or follow and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. It is free, it only takes you two seconds. Is how we keep bringing you wonderful guests like Pete. Okay, back to the show. was there a specific moment where you where you are like, Tiger 29, this is not we might work. Like this is real, this is sustainable. In the course of your 23 years, was there a moment where you're like, this is this is just a blip and it's the cost of doing business? We're fine. speaker-0: Yeah, I think I have those moments both on both sides of that coin almost every week. speaker-1: Fair enough. speaker-0: you know, but yeah, there there have been a lot of those moments. I think one of the things I think about, and it wasn't early on it for the first seven years of my business I operated as a as a solopreneur. I didn't have any employees. and I always felt like, Hey, this is the next step for me. I need to do it. but w I think when you're in business Every molehill feels like a mountain until you've climbed it. And then you look back down and you're like, Man, that was easy. or maybe not easy, but that wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. and hiring was definitely one of those things for me where I I thought it was gonna be a lot more difficult than it was. And there's still challenges to this day with with hiring and staff and and all that stuff. but it wasn't the the mountain that I thought it was gonna be to climb. speaker-1: So I'm I'm glancing up. I have a a sign in my office on the other side, and it's a quote from Nelson Mandela that says, It always seems impossible until it's done. And that always gives me comfort. man, you look on the other side and you're like, we didn't think we were gonna make it through it. And look at us. I love that. Look at us. We're still here. Okay. so let's talk a little bit about I I had a different question, I'm gonna come back to it. But when did you start bringing on other team members and what was some of your thought process that said, okay, now it's time to to bring on some team members? speaker-0: So that was back in about two thousand fifteen or sixteen. and really like the workload had gotten to a point where I was working probably fifty, sixty hours a week, profitable, all those good things and and it it felt like this was a watershed moment where like am I gonna continue being who I've been and doing what I've done, or am I gonna try to to reach for something better? and at that point I I thought, well, let's start to think about hiring. I started to talk to some people in my my circles about the fact that I was gonna be hiring. And through a stroke of luck, one of those people that I I've trusted and and I still value his opinion to this day, his son happened to be looking for a job at that time. and that was my first hire, was was the son of one of my close, not a business advisor, but but definitely somebody that I spoke with on at least a monthly basis, if not a weekly basis at that time, a banker who had had decades of experience. It turned out to work out really well. and then that kinda gave me the confidence that like, hey, the next hire, these are the qualities that I'm looking for in that person. and and and it really kinda gave me that confidence. speaker-1: So I'm always curious. we're coming along, we're doing everything by ourselves. We realize we're just burning the candle at both ends. Was there a reason why you delayed that first hire? Was it, hey, I know sometimes I've made my first like full time hire recently, and it's like, you're responsible for someone's like, you know, financial well being now. Like What were some of the things in your mind that caused you to be seven years in, five years in before you made your first hire? speaker-0: I think fear, just being afraid, which in hindsight is silly. but just being afraid of the unknown and it it was something that I didn't know how to do yet. and it's still something that I'm practicing, and still something that I'm getting better at. But I I had never had practice with it. and so I didn't know what I was doing. even back then in in fifteen sixteen, like the amount of information that was available, you couldn't ask Chat GPT like, Hey, I'm thinking about hiring, what should I do? Like It it took a pretty a big lift for me to get through and get past that fear. and then once I got past it and made the decision. A month later I was like, Man, why did I wait so long? Right. I didn't need to be working I didn't need to be working those long hours. I didn't need to be, you know, stressing over this. It was it was a good decision in hindsight for sure. speaker-1: Yeah, when I think about the things now that I'm just like and it and it can for me can be in stages. You know, you have a new team member, you trust them with a little, and then you know, you get more confident and you're just like, I don't care, do whatever you do it. I trust you. Go ahead. Well, here's the finished thing. I didn't touch it. I just kind of like, How fun is that? Okay. So lawyers, sometimes we have a bad reputation. I would say sometimes the SEO folks, maybe you're not as bad as lawyers, but a lot of promises are often made, Pete. Promises are made about the magical things that you all can do with our visibility. and sometimes it doesn't come to fruition. Was there a time or a season where you really had to fight that reputation with clients in order to get their confidence? Or how do you overcome that? Even when I look at your offer and I'm like, man, he can't fix nothing for no $150. Like, so how do you how do you kind of overcome overcome that? speaker-0: Well and and part of part of that the reason that we came up with that offer, Aisha, was to show people some of the really low hanging fruit that's out there, and and not to get super technical, but a lot of times we get on those power hours and the title tag of of the home page of the website that somebody has just says home. It doesn't say who they are, their business name, it doesn't say what they do, their services, it doesn't say their location, or service area. It just says home. That's not giving any value. to Google or Chat GPT. We go in, we log in, and we make that change. and so hopefully right from the get-go, we we're demonstrating that like, hey, this this is real. This is something that is changeable. and then beyond that, I think realistically, it's about setting expectations where a lot of SEO professionals and companies, and and they're good at what they do, but in order to get the sale, they feel like they have to set that expectation so high. and then they and then they're hanging on for dear life. Hey, two more weeks, two more months, I think we're almost there, that kind of thing. we're setting the expectation of, hey, this is what we're really trying to accomplish is represent your business to Google and ChatGPT in a way that they understand. There's gonna be some some quick and easy wins, and then there's gonna be some things that take time. We're gonna measure a lot of stuff and show you progress along the way. If you don't like it, we need to talk about it and and If you need to fire us, I understand. and if you're not getting results, by the way, you should fire us. Like that's that's what any business owner should do if they're not getting results from their bookkeeper or their attorney or their accountant or who banker, whatever. and really it's about becoming a part of their team, hopefully, just like any other employee that like most businesses, every employee in the business doesn't come in and hit home runs every day. all day, every day. If they can come in and hit singles, if they can get better, if they can show you that they're they're honest and that they're they're working towards the betterment of your business, that's a big deal, I think. And and we also try to provide value in other ways that go beyond SEO. You know, whether it's hey, we got this problem with our email, can you help? Well, that's not really my thing, but I might be able to point you in the right direction. So yeah, I I think that you are a hundred percent right that the SEO community does have a bad rap in a lot of ways. and I think a lot of it is is just that the the need and the desire to sell. And the easiest way to sell is to overpromise, whether you're a used car salesman or an SEO guy or or whatever it is that you do. trying to be pretty upfront about expectations is is really been the best way for me. speaker-1: So you got me going, he doesn't fix the the email D mark and blah, blah, blah. I've talked about these stupid phrases like, why is my stuff getting caught spam and not delivering? I've done everything right. But I accept I I am very big on telling people, hey, that's beyond my area of expertise. Like I just prior to talking to you was on a call with a a wonderful business owner in my community. And I was like, Yeah, that's not my thing, but I'm gonna get you to the person whose thing that is. but you one thing I want to circle back to because you did talk about you've built your reputation on proof over promises and and not over promising. Did did that transparency ever kind of cost you a sale or a relationship in the short run? Just being honest and transparent about the thing you're I don't want to say limitations, but like, you know, potential outcomes. speaker-0: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. and it's frustrating. but I mean you lose sales no matter what you say, at the end of the day, I think. at the end of the day I I sleep pretty good at night and and that's good enough for me. and I think there's been times, actually just two times within the last year and a half, we've had clients who worked with us generally liked us, I think. And they they had a a different software provider that also did web development and also did SEO. and they left us. no hard feelings, like you lose clients, that's okay. we've had two of come back to us over the last year, year and a half. And so that to me is extremely validating. and they've one of came back and referred one of his other business friends to us as well. speaker-1: Cheating. speaker-0: It's validating and and that even that, I'm a little uncomfortable saying that, Aisha, just because even that sounds like you're making a promise that is is a big, hurdle to overcome and deliver on. but it is validating. speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's interesting to me because when you're trying to build a business, you obviously want to make money, you want to have clients. And and I've this topic has been bubbling up a lot in the circles that I'm in recently about handling the no, right? If someone says no, they're not gonna go with you, you know, you think you do this great pitch, like how do you deal with that? I had a client who was with me for more than a year and then they didn't continue. And I feel like old me. would have been really just upset. And I see this person, this business owner on a semi-regular basis. And I'm just like, they had their reasons. Wish you well. and I just think that that makes space for the people who are right for you in your business. Because it's it's sometimes like you said, a timing issue. Whatever the timing wasn't right. And then they went and they had their little dalliance over on the other side and then they, you know, came back to all that's right and good. so good for you for for keeping that that door or window open for them to return. 'cause if you if it ends in a you know, you in a huff and it's like bad feelings and stuff like that. It's just bad juju to put out there in in in the universe. speaker-0: Well and and in fairness, I I might have some of those intrusive thoughts during those times. speaker-1: A hundred percent. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Like cause we're human. We're human. Only the big guy can rise above it. speaker-0: And we pour our lives and our souls into this stuff, And we and I I think I hope, you know, most small business owners or or any business owner, they feel like they're doing a good job. You know, and when somebody else doesn't think you're doing a good job, it it it hurts, you know. but I remember as a kid playing sports, you know, like think you did a great job and then your coach chews you out and it's like, like, come on. speaker-1: We really tried. We really tried. I had this this instructor in high school, God rest his soul, Mr. Rogers. I took him for history like in my senior year or something, and he was the hard teacher. And I was like, Mr. Rogers, but if we really tried, like we should pass just because trying. And he's like, if you can't swim, you're still gonna drown. And I was like, fair point, fair point. No one wants that. No one wants that. So like you can do all the things and it just doesn't. It just doesn't work out for whatever reason. And some you have your feelings. speaker-0: Sometimes it doesn't any relationship in life just sometimes it doesn't work out. speaker-1: Yeah, it's okay, So, yes, so I don't mean to be like I'm saintly and I'd like just am able to like fully rise rise above it. One of my favorite love languages is words of affirmation. Like I love being told I'm wonderful and whatever, but sometimes I'm not wonderful. So people are wonderful for them in this season that they're in, and we we just we figure it out. All right, enough about me. So you talked about like having to wear all the hats in the beginning and and the danger of just basically transferring one job to another. And you get to the point where every person, entrepreneur in this journey, has got to figure out the systems that they need to get into place. You talked about hiring, but tell me you know, who are some of those first key hires that you made? You talked about the gentleman's son that you got that How did you figure out the staging of the people you were bringing on to your business to help it hum? speaker-0: Yeah, so early on, you know, when there's just two of you sitting in the office five feet away from each other, you just show how to do stuff. You know, like their the knowledge transfer is is is pretty easy or at least pretty straightforward. but even then and and I think it c actually came out of a a small conference or a mastermind that I was in with another SEO guy and he talked about the idea his his previous life, you know, years ago was as a chef and he talked about creating recipes that anybody can follow. and so that's when that started was to come up with those recipes or standard operating procedures that hey, even if we're not sitting five feet away from each other, you've got ninety percent of the recipe right there. And maybe you only need me for ten percent. And then two weeks or two months, you don't need me for any of it because you got the recipe and and you know how to make it. I think that was a big thing and and it In all fairness, I think it's something that I still struggle with, and and I think that a lot of professionals who have been in their career for a long time probably do, whether you're an attorney or a mechanic or whatever it is that you do. I've got twenty-three years worth of SEO and podcasts and articles and trainings and conferences living in my head. How do I get that onto paper that makes sense to somebody else who hasn't had that experience? And it is a it is a challenge. and I think it's a work in progress and it's it's probably always a work in progress, especially in an industry that changes as much as SEO does. but if you don't do it and you don't try, it certainly isn't going to be better. And so it is something that I think that was probably right around that twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen time frame, where we really started to put things down on paper and say, like, hey, here's something we need to write down so that other people know how to do it. speaker-1: And I I just think honestly, some of it is the control issue. Part of what drives one into entrepreneurship in the first instance is the ability to control your own outcomes and destiny. And so you get to this place where you're controlling everything and doing it the way you want to. And now you're like, wait, now I gotta let somebody else get in the room and have a say and be in like that way doesn't make sense. Like it's dumb that you did it that way. Right? Like there's some vulnerability to that. speaker-0: Well, and I think too, what we have today looks nothing like what we had back in twenty seventeen. And and frankly, it started out with like an Excel spreadsheet of like, all right, what's the first thing we do? Put that in A one. What's the next thing we do? Put that in A two. And eventually you sort of grow beyond or you reach the limitations of whatever it is that you're working on, and then you start start to look for something new or different. Today we use click out as a project management tool. and that's kind of getting to give us some challenges, or limitations, or we don't quite like the way that this works, or it's not flexible for us in this way. and a piece of advice that I got from somebody once was the systems and processes that get you to half a million dollars a year are gonna break at a million dollars a year. And so that that is something that is is kind of always a work in progress. speaker-1: Yeah, that that's a great that's a great, great point. And the I remember being a baby lawyer and the way that they would say it. I always chase change this phrase just a little bit, Pete. People say if you were to be hit by a bus, let's say if we were to win the mega millions or Powerball. The way that I was trained as a young lawyer was you want your file to be in a situation where if your lottery ticket came in and you just left the firm, someone could come behind you and pick that file up. And find everything that they're supposed to be able to find and be able to take it and go into court and totally know the case code. But if your file's a mess and they gotta come and try to put the pieces together and put them in place in a way that they make sense, then you don't have a well organized file. And I think sometimes that's how we need to think about our businesses, like what's one A, what's one B, what's one C. I don't have that all figured out since I'm still I'm a work in progress, but I got a great, I got a guy. Is it speaker-0: Well and and the th the crazy thing that I think about is and I'm not there yet, but what what when what happens when your team starts to create those systems and processes where you don't even know the things that are being built and they're they're and they're doing a great job of it. Things are kicking along great. I I sometimes run across things like that with my team. We have a small team, but where I look at it and I go like, man, this is cool. I don't remember making that SOP. And they're like, no, I made that. And it's like Now this is cool. This is powerful. speaker-1: 'Cause you're not 'cause you're not in it. You don't have to you're probably not the one that has to actually follow that operating procedure unless that person hits the lottery and decides to leave you. So so that's the that's the beautiful beautiful thing about that. when those things start getting built about the things that they do every day in support of you. You're not supposed to be doing those things. and so speaker-0: I think it I think it's a challenge too to to give that up and to to let other people build your business for you, which is also something I'm still working on maybe. speaker-1: Yeah, I I've I've experienced that in two ways. One in my own business, when I've now that I'm comfortable with a couple of people that I actually trust, where I'm like, just let them do it. Even like the last frontier for me was email. Right. So there's this guy, Dan Martell, and he's you know, you you're shaking your head, Mr. Buy back your time. And he and I read that daggone book and I was like, Dan, I'm not letting nobody in my email. Don't know what you're talking about. That day will never come. And the young man who helps me is all up in the email because I trust him. And it's just like it's handled. It's handled. And then he'll come back to me and be like, Miss Aisha, you owe a response to so-and-so. And I just, I'm like, Hallelujah. Like, I'm just so excited, like that I have someone who's helping me that way. But it is a process. and it is you know, kind of like the faith leap. That you have to make. And you still have certain guardrails in place to protect things. to have some of those things handled, you know, like Olivia Pope on the forget the scandal when they would just say it's handled. I'm like, yes, it's just it's just so exciting. All right, we're gonna take a quick beat because every business owner listening knows that one contract, one client agreement or one handshake deal can come back to bite you in the booty. And that's why Cedric Andrews has put together a free legal risk assessment, a quick way to spot the gaps in your business before they cost you. So I want you to make sure you grab yours at smallbizleguide.com. That's biz with two Z, Small Biz Legal Guide. So go find out where your gaps are and get protected. All right. So Tiger29 now works with clients across 20 plus states. What had to change about how you operate from Sioux Falls? to and being a local business to operating in all those different markets. speaker-0: So if people if we had a live audience, they might throw tomatoes at me, but COVID was a big part of it. Where COVID made it so that many more business owners started to do calls like this, you know, video conferences, better communications through emails, better file sharing, like that kind of stuff. made it possible to establish relationships and build relationships and maintain relationships far away without the tre the expense of travel, you know. and then some of it is just long-standing relationships where next week I'm flying out to Virginia for their council of CEOs meeting that they have. I was invited by one of our longtime clients to join him as his guest. I've worked with him for 16 years. We've never met in person. speaker-1: Wow. speaker-0: but the longevity of that relationship has led to to this. And who knows, you know, maybe it'll just be a a nothing meeting and conference, or maybe it's takes things to the next level for me or I meet those people that that are the the next most important people in my business. so I think those two things. Number one, COVID, and then number two, may being able to maintain long term relationships with a few key people. speaker-1: Yeah, the COVID. So there I I always think in terms of movies and music. It's just the way my brain works. And there was a movie with I think it was Halle Berry and Benicio del Torro years ago called Things We Lost in the Fire. And I think about that in the context of COVID. there were things that we lost relationally with people. and you find like people really gravitating towards more in-person connectivity now. But there's so much stuff that COVID birthed. because it did cause people to sit there and think, there's a plague here. what do I want to do with my one and only life? what do I wanna do here? And so it's really birthed a ton a ton of businesses. So my my wish for you is that this this in person meet does catapult you to some amazing things. speaker-0: I always say that either I'll win or I'll learn and so it turns out. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. Don't wait, I say don't let a good crisis go to waste. you know, like get something out of it. So we we started our conversation talking about this a little bit already, but we talked about how SEO has changed and now that you have the LLMs coming in here, it's kind of reshaping again. How do you keep track of the changes to the various algorithms to make sure that you all don't fall behind in what you're offering folks? speaker-0: Yeah, and I think that that is definitely a challenge and it's definitely something that's on my mind. a couple things. I continue to attend continuing education or masterminds, whatever you want to call them, to have in person conversations and relationships with people who do what I do in different parts of the country or with different types of clients. I definitely pay closer attention to my email newsletters and things like that than I used to. and I tell you what, my favorite thing to do, are you familiar with Notebook LM? speaker-1: I am. I'm a user. speaker-0: So yeah, I love to put things into notebook LM and create a a podcast and then I listen to that when I'm working out. And so it's a great way to get a lot of information into a 20 minute or 40 minute content brief. and then now now it's yours or it's living inside your head. so though those are the the big things is just continue those relationships and continuing education. Keep a close eye on on what's being put out out there and then trying to consume as much of it as as efficiently as possible. speaker-1: So you just named another thing that people say is dead and it's not, and that's newsletters and email. Email and newsletters are not dead. It's exhausting, but it's not dead. okay speaker-0: think it's an important thing. Sorry, what one thing is what's old is what's old is new again. and I don't know if it's this way out in Maryland, but I get a lot of junk mail again. Like ten years ago I did not get nearly as much junk mail as I do now from the auto repair shops and and you know home service providers because it works. Like they're sending it again because it works and people are looking at it. Same way with newsletters. it's yeah, newsletters are are great. speaker-1: In fact, I am going to leverage my AI to go in and clean out said junk because it's become to the point where I just can't keep track of all of it and I needed to at least segment the stuff and spend a day, half a day just going through like what segmented for me because I just realizing it's getting out of control and then it gives me anxiety because I think I'm gonna miss something because it's all in there. So I ha I do the I my my My Claude does like a briefing for me and it does a rundown for my emails. Hey, so and so emailed you at 2 38 a.m. Who's looking at 2 38 a.m. to see that? But luckily, Claude has told me that it's happened. All right. I got only two more questions for you. One is what is a gym? If if there were a founder, someone building their business right now, that they're in that messy, scared early season. What's the one piece of advice that you could give them that they could hold on to? speaker-0: I would say look for those people, good people that you have in your circle who can provide you either insight or support or guidance. I know like we talked about the the sales tax thing. without the bookkeeper that I had, without the the team that I had to help me through that, it would have been a lot of sleepless nights and hours trying to figure that stuff out. so surround yourself with those good people. And then I think too look for opportunities that you might not be aware of. going back to the very beginning, I was just a sales guy. I could have just answered the phone and returned my emails and but to look for like, hey, there's this SEO thing and more people will come to the website and more people will call me and ask about this product that we're selling. That kind of sounds interesting. Let's dig into that. And and I think in my life, I've always done better at the things that I'm interested in than the things that I've want to be interested in. Yeah. If that makes sense. And so find those things and and dig into them, sink your teeth into them and and go for it. speaker-1: Yes, I love that. All right. If you've listened at all to my show, I ask all my guests this question. When you hear the phrase, do small business like a big boss, what does that mean to you? speaker-0: I think it's it's knowledge transfer and creating a team that can execute your vision. and and creating those SOPs and those things that build something beyond yourself. It's not just a job anymore, it's a business, which can be scary 'cause you you lose some of that control. but when you have that team, that's when things really start to snowball and change. speaker-1: Well, Pete, I wanna thank you for your time today and all the gems that you have shared with the audience. It's been quite a pleasure. speaker-0: Thank you so much for having me, Aisha. I've really enjoyed it. speaker-1: Awesome. Well, bosses, if you got value today, I need you to like and follow and subscribe and do all the things that you never miss an episode. And don't forget to check out your legal risk assessment down there so we can bring this stuff home. And last but not least, always remember build that dream messy, build that dream scared. But please, please, please, just don't build it small. We'll see you next episode.