Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / The Tortured Poets Department (Part 1)

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The Tortured Poets Department (Part 1) · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, this is to all the men I've tolerated
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: before with Namily Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: We are back from some sort of break. Hopefully this
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is the first episode back from break. But I never
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: hold myself to any accountability when it comes to a timeline.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: But we do have Elizabeth and Darcy because we have
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: been sitting for months on all of our thoughts about
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the Tortured Poets Department before we could actually get all
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: three of us together on a hot night.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: If I can't, I think we've talked about it enough
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: that we are officially the Torture Poets.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: But we are so yeah, very torture.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Basically poets.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Usually my I call it my sad pink Unicorn Poetry Journal,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: My my pink, my unicorn pink sad Poetry Journal, where
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: it has a unicorn on it and it's pink and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: it was it does right and it was three dollars
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: at target. But it has like my saddest, most angsty
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: most like accaily, this happened to me poetry.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I have one of those too, and my plan was
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: to bring it to the beach and burn it to
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: like ooh, release the just fucking angry energy from it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: For I like my toothbrush forgot to bring it.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: But we are the Tortured Poets Department. I knew at
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the moment that she announced that that's what the album
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: was going to be called. But I'm going to take
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: us back in time to the day that we all
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: stayed up till midnight to listen to it, and then
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I just fell asleep listening to it at three am.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Oh I did this same. I always do that with
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: her midnight drops.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: When you could actually like mentally hear it and mentally
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: comprehend it. I always latch onto like one word that like,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, the tone of this album is. Did
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you guys have like a first impression like, ah, this
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: is what this album is serving me?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Okay. So I feel like the feelings this album elicited
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: for me personally, like I would have to have time
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: to creatively discover a like hybrid word that means both.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It would be like sangry, like she's like so fucking
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: sad and like so fucking angry in this way that like, well,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: there's a line that like grage is sort of like
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: an interesting analogy and color. I feel like it's it's
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: it's like two feelings that can at times, I think,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: be muted, like especially as a woman, like if you're sad,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you can't cry at work, like you'll fucking get fired,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: or if you're angry, like that has to be in
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: private because you don't want to be like a salty
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: bitch that everybody's like, is Hillary Clinton here? Who's that?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: But like the two of those co existing to make
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: this like like hot neon Grage, where it's like you
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: have to kind of like bury it so it's not
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: so noticeable to others. But like in her journal, that
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: is her music, like it was combined to make this
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: just like Napalm, it's delicious.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: So I actually had an interesting listening experience because I
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: stayed up till midnight and I listened to the first
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: like fifteen I think it's fifteen tracks.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Right, all that we were aware that existed, yes.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, And I went to sleep after so like I
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: didn't even find out wrote the second album until I
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: woke up.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I think I woke up in.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: The mail of the night I found not to be honest,
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: but I was like, well, just gonna have to wait
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: for tomorrow.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: But I got to my friend had texted me the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: same thing, right.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: It was like just so nobody saw that coming, which
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: but honestly, I was wondering when the album dropped and like,
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: what about all of these bonus tracks that we KNOWIC like, yeah, yes, totally,
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: And I really I don't think I will remember the
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: first time I listened to that first half of the album,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: like forever, I feel like it's I Don't Fortnite.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Just starting right off the veat with Fortnite was like holy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Shit, Like I feel like it's somehow kind of like
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: kind of like you're saying, Lizabeth, Like it captured an
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: emotion that like I don't even know how to like
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: really even like say, but I was like I identified
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: heavily with the album. Particularly the first five tracks were
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: like being bang Boom. I like was texting everybody and
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: nobody was, you know, anybody else texting wasn't away because
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: I wasn't kidding a response to so I was just
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: like looking on threads and stuff and Twitter to see.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: But I was just like I knew the album was
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: gonna wrack me. I knew it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: I let you guys know, in the beginning, I said,
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: this is gonna be rough, especially when the Torch of Poets,
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: you know, knowing the name, I was like, this has
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: never been she's never had a long title.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Like this, you know, and it's just I don't the
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: whole thing just blew me away.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just remember repeating to either myself or my
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: cat or people I was texting. I was like, Oh,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: we're grown, We're grown. We're using the we're saying fuck
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: in every other lyric. We are grown, we are grown,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: and we are so fucking over it. And it was everything.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: It was mean, it was fame, it was us, the Swifties.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she's fucking over us. She should
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: have been over us probably seven fucking years ago, but
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: she's over us now, like you like, And it's that
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: sad angry is like my definition of cunty because like
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it's easy to be like flirty cunty or like even
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: sassy cunty, but just like.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: The the the deliciousness of just being like, no, I'm pissed,
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: and because I'm so pissed, I'm also sad or.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so sad that you pissed me off and we've
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: come full circle.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Well, truly, you're so right, Like it's so you're so sad,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: you're angry, yeah about it, Like, oh yeah, it's so good.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: It's like an ombre the emotions.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: The stiges of grief.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: I mean when she really does emphasize and it really
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: like that is honestly I meant, like just the pro
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: sus a grief.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just kept going out. I was like, ooh,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: we a grown woman. Like we grown, which is silly,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: like we're like I'm in my thirties, uh tits in
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: her thirties. We are grown women. We are not the
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: gen zs. We are not the like coming it's coming,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: oh forties, forties coming for Elizabeth very soon, and like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: we're grown women. But very but very little do I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: ever find that something that is mass like produced and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: is going to be like popular on a global scale
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: makes me go, oh, that's what it means to be
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: a grown woman. Like I've lived through some shit.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: She is so palatable in so many ways that like,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a fucking mistake the puts narcotics
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: or something like, she makes medicine tastes like sugar in
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: a way that like my own child is like singing
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: things that like we talk about later where it's like
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it's informing a human experience, whether you've already experienced it
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: or not, in a way that is.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Palpable.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Like it's just it takes you to a place of
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: vulnerability immediately. That's it's so impressive for pop music.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Truly, and in a lot of ways this album, she
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: almost didn't play the palpable.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Game well exactly, like she wasn't leaning into that at all.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: And I still find it like it's almost like if
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a lullaby was telling you, like the real like non
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: white man history of America, Like it's beautiful and honest.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Piffering around the Rosie actually said the word plague in it,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: exactly at least we all foul down because we're dead.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: But you sing it like an angel and like actually
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: understand sort of the messaging.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, this whole idea of like, oh, I've lived
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: through some shit, and I realized that, like I end
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: up reliving through some shit every time I listened to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a Taylor Swift album all the way through, Like, uh,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: it's July, and I was really thinking that debut was
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: going to be out and I was going to be
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: driving everyone in my car everywhere in my car with
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: the windows down listening to my grown up version of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: should have said.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: No, holy shit when that's Oh my gosh, that one is.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I cannot wait to hear those with like her voice now, like.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Something like yeah. And I've had friends say like I
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: need her to do the wacky country fake accent though,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and I go, she will, Oh, she will, she will.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: She kept just enough of it in speak now that
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I went, oh, debut is gonna slap, Like debuts go slap.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: She knows what she I want and it's a wacky
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: country accent. Yeah.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Well, and she's trying, I think spiritually, to stay very
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: true too, like she's not trying to replace for us
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: these like seminal works that we've also grown up with,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: like and she knows that that would be very hard
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: for swifties to just like, okay, this is like it
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: feels older and you're older, and it feels different. Like
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: the weight of the emotions in the song are very
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: much the same, I think is when she originally recorded them,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: but the it's not cheeky. It's a lot more elevated
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: than that that the sort of winks nods to us,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: like the actual fans are not only like awesome because
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: it's fan service and it's almost like tiny easter eggs,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: but like it makes it immediately listenable in a way
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that does feel new but kind of the same.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: And while I will say that, like my first like, oh,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the themes presented in the album is well,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it's a breakup album. I almost want to change that
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and be like, well, it's a breakup album, but it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: also like a fucking distrack call out album.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Dude. That's how I enjoyed it, Like, that's how I
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: received it. Immediately. I was like, oh shit, this is
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: not a breakup album, like Midnights was the breakup album.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: This is setting the fucking world on fire because a
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: fuck boy fucked with the.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: Queen, like this was the aftermath of the Heartbreak album,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: and it is it's such like a fuck you.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Well, and have you ever been in that mindset where
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a rat boy an ugly man really fucking tries it
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: on you and then you remember every other ugly man
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that's ever tried it on you, and you're like, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: now that I remember, I'm pissed at fucking Chase from
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: two thousand and two. Now that I think about it, well, that's.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Kind of the thing that they deserve it. Every piece
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: of shit that like shows up in your life and
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: then pretends to be the brave men you need and
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: like haven't had yet, and it's them every time. They
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: then show you who they really are. You are now
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: every fucking man that's ever done that to me, including
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: sometimes my dad, and you deserve it. And then the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: new one, the next one comes along, and guess what
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: you are now the culmination of every fucking man who's
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: done this to me before. So like, I feel like
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: at some point we are going to transcend into actual
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: goddamn phoenixes because we have literally like like lived this
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: life over and over and over, like fucking booted, Like
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: it's like we're trying to get it right and like
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: we will, and I think this album is her being like,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: here's how you fucking get it right, Like mm hmm,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: this is the type of anger you should have.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: And I think the like bridge between Midnight and the
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: Torture post Apartment being like you're losing me, and like
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: she she did so many editions of Midnight, she could
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: have put that on there, and I feel like it
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: was so intentional obviously, and it was like yes, phenomenal.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's like the perfect.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: Song to almost like prepare you for Tortured Poets like this,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: You're losing me, You fucking you lost you lost me
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: now and now here, here's what we got.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: It could be reworked minimally and have been, you know,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like a bonus track on Torture Poets. And I love
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: all the little like like sort of cobblestones that she
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: these little bridges that she's like built these parallels between
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: fucking every album, every song, Like there are so many lines, references,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: motifs where it's like it's not just us being like, well,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: in twenty years, she'll probably be da da da da duah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And if she's wearing this color, it's not that it's
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: not psycho. It's like I know this catalog, I know
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: this artist. And when she says you are what you did,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: like immediately I'm going to fucking in assess, And I'm like,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: that's amazing because that is speaking our language to us
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: about like every man who's done this to me is
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: not equal, Like this was different.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: This is gonna sound wild coming out of my mouth.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: It's not even for me. This is how you do
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: it right. Album it's the it was never our fault
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: to begin with album. And you know, a lot of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the criticism is it's another who can who writes thirty
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: two songs about a boy that you dated for a
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: couple of months one summer, or about the last two
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: boys that you dated or whatever, And I it's gonna
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: sound crazy coming out of my mouth. You have to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: center men to decenter men, because it's like, no, I'm
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: running away from you. And this is.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Why that's a really really good point.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Because to just like to just take yourself out and
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: be like, actually I'm done, there's no way for And
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I tell this in the vander Punt I got really
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: emotional talking about Katie Maloney's last season of vander Pump
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Rules because I was like, I don't think anyone understands
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: how lonely it is to actually decenter men.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: She is you, like truly, there is like a quiet
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: energy that she not to fear into vanderpum. Don't get
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: me started, but like, Katie Maloney is a fucking hero
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: and a prophet and like she is my absolute reality idol.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: She's a truth teller in a way that fucking people
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: don't want to hear and it makes her not cute
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and it makes her dislikable for especially men. And she
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: is one of those women that I listen, if I
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: could count how many times I've hurt a man, because
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: every man in my life, Dad and everybody, everyone who
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: knows me, at some point is either hearing me talk
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: about vander Pump. I'm showing them a club. I've made
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: them watch a season. I've made them watch the whole
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: damn series. But like everyone's opinion, she's almost the Worshack
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: test of like your misogyny to that show, because if
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: it comes out of your mouth while you're watching Vanderbump,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: why did she cut her hair? It looked better? Along?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: That's me being like unsubscribed number one.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Katie Maloney is my queen. And at no day, not
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: one day, that did her hair look better long? No,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: it wasn't right, not one day.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: No. She is the phoenix like she this is her
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: absolute lane. This is like she's just yeah, it's she's winning.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So back to this point of like, in order to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: decenter men, you first have to start with all of
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the ways that you centered them. So a lot of
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: this is a lot of the album is you fed
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: me a story tale, A fairy tale, A story tale.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I kind of like that you fed me a fairy tale.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You told me these lies. You told me I was
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: going to get married, You told me I was gonna
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: have your kids. You told me that I wasn't like
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: any other girl, and all of the other girls compared
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to me were boring, And at the end of the
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: day you ghosted me like I was no one, and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: we've all like I've I've been that lady. I've been
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that lady holding some other lady's baby while some ratman
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: is like being like, what if that was our baby?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And then two weeks later telling me like it just
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: got like really serious in a way that I didn't
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: quite understand, and I was like literally just like a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: fugue state in it, Like like I was like I
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't making any choices, like so often.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: You were hitting so close to home on my personal ext.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not even making choices in my relationships with men.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I'm being told a fairy.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Right literally upstreet, like you are to go opposite of
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: what they're convincing you of or feeding you or telling
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: you every day would be to swim against the tide.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: So you either have to save your own life by
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: clawing yourself back to the shore. Or maybe you're fucking busy,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: or you're a single mom, or you I don't know,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: have a job and you don't have the fucking energy
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: to do that, so you just let them take you
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: on this ride that I'm literally like, never again, absolutely,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: never again and again.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I know though she worked on this damn album for
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: a while, but I think that the erastour was a
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: big game changer because she physically had to be away
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: from these men who were feeding her stories. And so
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: because I've I've had that experience too, where all of
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you're in the quiet of your own home
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and you're going, what if he written mind only on
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: my upper thigh? Only in my mind? Like what if
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that didn't I that doesn't even add up with him
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: not wanting to come home with me for Christmas?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Or like, truly, I don't know how quickly we want
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to get into where we were in our personal lives
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: when this album dropped, right, or if this isn't appropriate
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: place to tell them story. But I was recently in
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: a ten month relationship with a person I met on
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: a dating app and we had I mean I'm telling
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you like I vetted him, I knew people that knew
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: him very well, all the things, all the things, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: it is very simply in the short version is it's
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: a case of someone literally showing up, getting a read
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: on you, like they're casing a house, telling you exactly
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: what you want to hear, and then behind closed doors
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: being the piece of shit they actually are, truly, like
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: only a man can do, as if they could now,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: as if they would not get caught eventually living this lie,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: like they would never get found out truly, and like
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: to then find out who they actually are after you
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: have been emotionally coerced into saying things I don't know,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: like I guess I could have a third husband. I
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: don't know, like I thought I was done having kids,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: but like you mean, he kind of like think differently
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: because they have brought these things up, because sometimes they
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: do meet your family. Sometimes they introduce you to their grandparents.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Like the extra mile gone, the above and beyond is staggering,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: absolutely so then to fall from such great hair and
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: that's like the whole time I'm listening now in the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: new Oh that's important as well. It dropped the last
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: sort of like good Era sort of stretch of time
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I had with this vile individual whose name is Rob.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: His last initial is Oh. If you live in Memphis.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: He's a drummer for a band Go Google. But that
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: happened right at the end of this like just like
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: it was the honeymoon period again of the narcissist cycle,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and so he had just like taken care of me
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: when I had strep through, like brought me flowers, just
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: like all these like show like ways that he like,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I'm here now, this is like gonna work, It's gonna work,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: begged me back. I tried to leave like ten times. Anyway,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the whole fucking shipping this album drops and he had
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a show and we go and it's like past midnight.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Instead of sitting at home waiting for Taylor Swift, I
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: am at a stupid fucking hole in the wall bar
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: just like watching this loser play drums like I've never
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: seen it before, and uh, We're on the drive home
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: and act like he's for real, like he's giving me
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a present. We can listen to the news, Oh can
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: we can we listen to the new Tailor Swift because
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I listened to the new fucking Cannibal Corpse like eight times,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: but cool, let's do that. And so unfortunately, the first
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: time I heard Fortnite was with this fucking asshole who
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: was like damn girl, like yeah, she's like really evolved,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Like shut the fuck up. First of all, I don't
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: need you your director's commentary over the fucking Taylor Swift
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and b Now because I was listening again, I was
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: listening to it like, oh, yeah, I've been there, Oh
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that feeling owe that like grieving process, the thing I'm with,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the man I'm gonna marry. And then like the meme
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: says like it's like my parting gift from this relationship
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: was a true appreciation and understanding of this album. And
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: then I had it like this like Security Blanket was
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: like kind of huge.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I was gonna say with the love bombing
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: in the beginning, I definitely what I've come to like learn,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: you know, through my pondering of my life experiences that
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: it's almost like there's that's their study and like you said,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: like they're studying they see what what you want, what
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: they will need to do to keep you and kind
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: of just feed you that until you're hooked.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's all because they feel owed you.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So it's it's like ah, because I honestly I was
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: listening to it yesterday and today and I was like,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I don't listen to this song. My boy only breaks
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: his favorite toys enough. Because if that hasn't been, every
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: fucking relationship in my life was so good?
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Did the same castles?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Oh? Because again it all goes back to I think
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: that at a very early age, I was conditioned to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: believe that my logic, reasoning and decision making turns off
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the moment that a penis centers the room and I feel,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and it's why I stopped dating men. And like I've
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: told Annie this before, I go, I only want kids
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: if a man's in a room looking at me, and
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: as soon as he leaves the room, I'm like, I
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: don't want kids. My life is fucking fantastic. I've only
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: ever been made to feel like I wanted kids, marriage,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: all of it. If some guy's feeding me lines that
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: he oh, he just sees it in me. And this
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: whole idea of like it can't ever be my fault
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that I've been scammed by so many guys because I
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: was never being making a decision anyways, And it's like
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: it can't be Ariana's fault that she's trapped in scanned
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of Bal's house because she probably internally didn't even make
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: that choice to buy the house.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Right. That's really such a good point. It just happens
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you're you are taught to be the beta, and so
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: it would take so much energy and time and courage
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: honestly that you haven't developed as an adult because we
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: haven't been taught to to stand up and be like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: you know what, Like I don't know that this is
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: what I want? And how many times have you been
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: in a relationship where very quickly you try to access
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: what you want sitting alone in a room, like what
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: do I want to watch? What do I want to wear?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Where do I want to eat? What am I going
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: to do today with my time? And then decision paralysis,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: not because of add or the other myriad mental illnesses
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: we all struggle with, but like because a man somewhere
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: is not telling you like he's at work, well he's
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: supposed to be, but he's actually fucking a girl named Kylie,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: but like.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, and so that whole imagery of I'm
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: a toy that he sits on a sand castle until
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: it's ready, until he's ready to leave the beach, and
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: then he just lets it get washed by the shore,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: or he kicks it down, or he stomps on it
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: or all of it. I'm like, no, that's how it's
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: felt every time I've been broken up with. It's never
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: number one. I've never been the person who had the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: privilege to break up. Like I'm like, I did, never
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: forget to make that choice. They always see it coming
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and then go, here are fifty reasons why you don't
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: get to be my wife. And I was like, oh yeah,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I was like that's how that's how men are taught
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: to interact with me. That I am a thing.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: In multiple and I know I'm not alone here. I
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: just I do know. I've had multiple men that I've
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: tried to break up with, not tried, successfully left their
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: fucking house with my shit in the bag, that then
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: threatened to kill themselves if they don't come back. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: this is like the level of literal that we're talking about.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: When you were saying things like this, like yeah, like
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: you aren't making decisions on when you try to. It's
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: like la la, la, la la, I don't know. I
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: didn't hear that, so that's not real.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I don't listen to my boy only breaks his favorite
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: toys because a woman who is very close to me
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: after her divorce, said I was the only thing that
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: could make him happy, and that meant that every time
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: he was unhappy, that was on me, and I just
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: like sat there in the chills of that, like I
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: was the only thing that could make him happy, and
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: therefore every moment that he was not happy, I was
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: at fault, and I was the person who was blamed,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and I was the person who was miserable about it.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: But listen to what you're saying, and it's so profound.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: In this larger conversation, we're only discussing that woman in
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: terms of what is going to make her miserable while
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: she's catering to and trying to manage someone else, what
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: makes her happy exactly. We just don't get it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: We don't get it, and now I'm jumping all over
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: my list. But this is what we do because one
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: of the mythologies of this album is peter Pan syndrome.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: And by the way, I think we should do an
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: entire Peter Pan Syndrome episode surrounding the men of Southern Charms.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: To say that that would be amazing, because.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: While I was listening to Peter today, I was like,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I was never afforded Peter Pan syndrome. Did I get
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to feel like I could be twenty two years old
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: and not act to grow.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: There's no little girl's syndrome. No, when we act like
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: little girls, it either attracts a particularly vile segment of
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: humanity or we get publicly ridiculed because we are leaning
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: on this innocence we no longer actually possessed because everybody
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: knows there quotes Again, women who talk like little girls
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: are usually like real big sluts. So like, there is
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: no little girl syndrome. It's used to describe people that
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: you don't want to.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Emulate, and not that we're going there. But if you
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: watch the Peter Pan movie and any iteration of it,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: when Doy's not having a good time at fucking Neverland.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Well what's fascinating. So my daughter Natalie remind me to
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: send you the videos.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: She was.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Very interested in helping me set up for recording tonight,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: well mostly postponing that time, but like also, yeah, you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: percent actions interested in what I was doing and I'm
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: setting the mic up. And she's always been like a
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: where's the spotlight? Like her former at heart, but like
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I think she's hitting this age where she's like actually
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: really curious about like how well she can do it,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and so like she was like I wanna, I want
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: to do it, like I want to put the video
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: on and like can I be on the podcast? And
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I was like it's past too bad time, but if
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: you want to, you know what if you want to
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: like record a little like like I have a few
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: minutes where like she's obsessed with the whole album, like
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: what are your favorite songs? What do you think it means? Like,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: so she took a video of herself talking about her
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: favorite songs both It's the Albatross and Peter. But so
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: with Peter, we've she's never seen Peter Pan to my knowledge,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: not at my house, but like we've talked a lot
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: about what the song means, what the movie's about. I
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: would say that one's definitely over her head and terms
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: stuff like the concept of manchild doesn't show up later
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: because they never fucking grew up. But like for her
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: to be like, oh, it's about the movie and it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: about Peter ban and this is the story of Peter
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Pan is the fucking seats of the knowledge of that
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: being a thing that you're gonna run into in life.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So like when I'm like, ooh, should we watch this
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: dis Sey movie? Then I'm like, fucking roll the tape,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: you know what, Let's watch Beauty and the Beast. What
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: do you see there? What do you see happening? Or
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the Little Mermaid? What does she give up for what?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this whole Peter Pant syndrome, and like not
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: being I was never afforded letting my guard down, like
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: girl that's all what girlhood's about. Girlhood is not about
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: frolicking in the field, letting your guard down, rolling roll,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: like blowing dandelions out of your hand a La Belle,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Like we all found pockets of time to do that.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: But wasn't it mostly imaginary? It was this like imaginary
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: serenity that we were like shown because of Disney, that
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: we I felt like I was playing pretend every time
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I was like at my grain parents' house and was
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: in a field and there was like no one around,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, what would it be like to just
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: be like a Disney But it's not real and you're
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: not actually relaxing in the moment or present. You were
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: pretending to be fucking Jasmine or whatever like this picture
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of serenity. You've been shown that women are supposed to
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: be able to like capture at some point, but when.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a really great pot. Yeah we were
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: We've never just been afforded. Like it's always like what
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: are you wearing? Who's looking at what you're wearing? Are
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you being polite? Are you being demir? Did you not
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: take up space you like? Did you get in trouble?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Did you ask for it? What were you doing?
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Who are you with? What time was it? Where did
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I think you were? Did you lie about it? Did?
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I mean literally like boys come home and cop cars
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and the parents are like, do you remember that time
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Tommy got brought him? I mean literally, like it's funny.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Now. I have been lucky enough to be raised by
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a woman who is just like my daughter is strong
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and she is smart, which also means that if anything
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: should happen to me, it's my fault. But I will
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: just let her be gone for hours of the day
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and never think twice like I was so like, I
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: think about child and again this is another episode too,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: But I think about how childhood in twenty twenty four
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: makes me ill because of how sanitized and boring it
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: looks like. It looks so sanitized and boring, and it
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: looks like moms have to be like constantly creating an
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: experience and not letting an experience wash over us. Whereas
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I was just a kid on a bike for hours
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: downtown in my neighborhood at a park, I was just
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a kid on a bike and sure like little girls
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: mixed up fucking potions of mud and same songs and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: held hands and danced under the moon and whatnot.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Again, that's pretending we're women who have more controls of
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: our reality than we do. That playing potions magic that like,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: that's all like what would it be like if I
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: could take things that are actually in my environment am
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I surrounding, put them together and actually like change my reality?
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Because even at seven where like it fucking sucks.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I hate it here, Yeah, And I mean one of
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the sections of my notes is just like, oh, you know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: just girl things, knowing that you're seeing more as an
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: object without feelings that can be broken on a whim. Meanwhile,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: he's the one that you worship and love and adore
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: teenage petulance and suicidal ideation because you didn't get your
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: way and you've just had it, like yeah, But the
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: instances that I've just walked in being like fuck it,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: if I can't have this, yeah, I just will die.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: It'll make no difference. And like literally it's just an anthem.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I don't say him because I don't want him, but
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I can't have this, all right, I'm
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I'll die. Yeah, I'll just die, and I'll just drown
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: in Lake Michigan and make it real romantic for everyone
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: at my funeral. I've heard that in the Indiana Lake
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Shore has become really trendy and romantic sides to get
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: like the youth have found it. And when my best
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: friend told me that, the first thinge out of my
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: mouth was, oh good, it will be like trendy in
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a moment when I drowned myself there.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So you're just you're just propagating the romance, the romance.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I'll just be the new ghost of the dunes.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Did you guys have like a lookout point that people
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: weren't made out at. I feel like I lived in
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: like a city that like that was like everywhere and anywhere,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Like there wasn't like a place no, or is that
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: just simply is that a thing for movies and sitcoms.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: We just like hid in the woods that were off
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: of the trail, Like there was like a bike trail
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and on either side of the bike trail was either
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a neighborhood or woods and then an neighborhood and we
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: would just go into those woods.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that's a serious thing. That is more romantic
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: than growing up in Memphis, Tennessee, where I like every
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: memory I had, you just went to the park people
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: did Heroin at and like rolled your windows up and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: like this, I got there for a minute before like
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: the cops come or that guy that looked like Jesus
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: would come knocking. Don't ask for money. It was not
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: a place for the youths.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think like a big point of this
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: album is like, hey, even when we were doing Girlhood, right,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't in our control, like that was us making choices.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: What one good one point I just wanted to make
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: before we go off of Peter Pan is that even
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: like in Peter Pan, Wendy, you know, Peter and Wendy,
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: but taker Bell is really the the female character that
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: is glamorized and she's fiction. You know, I think it's
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: actually kind of you know, a good.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: What I love though, is so I always thought Peter
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Pan was a little there were some parallels with Midsummer
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Night's Dream and dinker Bell's Puck, and so it's this
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: like really interesting sort of gender inversion on the like
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Greek choir also being a commenter and a shit stirr
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: like in the actual like narrative of this story. But like, yeah,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: that is that is interesting to even bring her up
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: in the conversation of Peter Pan, because there is a
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: woman that's sort of like this like all present commentator
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: that's like, what's up there, guy.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: The girl who's like, bitch, I've lived through this and
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: you have no one to be me, like exactly exactly.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Yes, but no one dresses up
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: as Wendy for Halloween. No one. No one dresses they
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: want to be teek, they want to be that bitch
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: who's thrown the sass back.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: And Wendy's definitely like Bellathorne and Twilight, like she's very
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: much a like audience proxy if you happen to be
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: a young girl that happens to encounter pieces of shit
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: that want to go live on another planet so that
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: they can just jack off all day and tell each
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: other how cool they are.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I yeah, no one dresses up as Wendy for Halloween.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: But even tinker Bell, her agency is also an illusion
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: because we need I can't wait for Taylor Swift to
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: write a song about tinker Bell. Uh, maybe I can
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: do it with the Broken Heart is her song about
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: tinker Bell. But we need the applause to thrive.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And it's like, oh man, that's such a
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: good point, and that just reminds me of every one
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: of the like when X y Z happens and Angel
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: gets its wings. Like it's always this like female imagery
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: of like a thing you are not in control, a
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: thing you are there's no agency, you're not like I
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: can influence this or make it happen.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: If this thing that's joyful.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Somewhere in the world in some ephemeral way happens, then
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you get a guess what the rest of the time
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: you have to fucking sit in perfection waiting for a
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: thing you can't control.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, virginity.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: A bell ringing a baby boy.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Whatever is if you hold onto your virginity very very
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: tightly for the entirety of your girlhood, and.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: You might survive a horror movie. You also might get
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: your wings or whatever you might.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: You might get two point five kids in a minivan,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: but you have to hold on to your virginity and
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the devils will come for it. But that's still also
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: your fault. Yeah, so, and damn damn because again I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: think the theme of the album for me is and
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I think this is also But Daddy I love him.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I can do it with a broken heart where it's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: like I can't actually control the narrative that you perceive
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of me. I actually have no control over that, and
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I'm no longer taking control of that.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: So fuck you guys kind of ways since you mentioned it,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: But Daddy, I love them A That was a question
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you, guys. Is there a song? Okay?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: This is two part I need a no pad to
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: write on part B.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I will.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Just state it now so someone can bring me back round.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So are there songs on the album that at first
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Blush you were like not a skip, but like, huh, like, well,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: this one and also what do you guys see or hear?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: And but Daddy, I love him? Like is it a
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: sort of tongue in cheek anthem about the attitude that
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: women get when there's a totally toxic partner that you
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: won't see the red flags or is it more a
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: statement of independence that regardless of what time of manner,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: it is like, you have to make your own choices.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: And they're the Sarahs and Hannah's like it doesn't matter
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: what the wine mom saying. It's like, yeah, maybe it
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is going to fuck your life up and it is
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: bad and it is toxic, but like there is more
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: positive in choosing your own path, you know, consequences be
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: damned or I don't know, Like I just like I'm
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: always kind of torn on like what what is that
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: song saying to you?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I listened to daddy,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But Daddy, I love him all the time. But I
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: don't think I actually think about it that deeply pastly.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I you know, I happen to be right at
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the moment that I was like, you know, absorbing the
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: song and like really like the analysis was kicking and
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: like I was in a relationship. I remember sending it
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: to a friend of mine and was like, this is
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: my anthem because like everyone in my fucking life was like,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: do you not see what a human trash can this
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: is that you're dating?
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like, but daddy, I love him. Unfortunately,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I probably don't think that hard about but I love
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: him because I am the Sarah's and the Mary's and
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: the daddy. I am Daddy where I'm like, he's terrible.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: He is awful, and our daddy because it's the Swifties,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: like we all are.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like, well, yes, but I.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Also play a personal.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I play that role.
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: Again.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: There's a reason we did not speak for four months,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: and I will on air apologize for that because I
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: think Taylor herself might there may have been some friendships
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that she was like I hate even like it's true,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I hate saying this, but like they'll be there when this.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Employment, when this is over.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now I have to just see because what they're
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: promising is fucking everything.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Well, and there's no again, there's no need to apologize
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: because we've.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: All I mean, you're one of the women, You're one
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of the people in my life. There were many but
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: like there were some key poor people. You were one
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: of them that, like I was the one that was
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: like la la la, Like if I don't knock on
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: that door and like have to have that conversation, then
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: like then I could I can just like tell them
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: to fray through the fences, like we can just like
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: figure out if this like wild boy is actually gonna
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: be my forever and then when you crash. I love
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: the end of her song. I feel like it's like
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: this like imaginary fairy tale like and then they were together,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: but like rarely does that happen ever?
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Wait right right, oh, very very very rarely can you
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: convince me that a man I hate is actually someone
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: that I should be into.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: You dating, Which is why, like I could lie to myself,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I knew I couldn't lie to you. My boss says
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: the same way, Like there were people that like I'm
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: good at deluding myself, and I know, showing up in
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: front of this person and moving this way and saying
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: these things is immediately going to be popping the wool
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: float like in a way I'm not prepared to deal
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: with because I am so my identity so quickly was
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: wrapped up in their approval and like acceptance of me
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: that like that would devastate me, Like that wouldn't that's
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: too much to deal with two o'clock on a Tuesday.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Well, and Stephanie had not that this happened to you personally.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: But Stephanie will hear me say something like, oh my god,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that this happened. She never told me,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: or she allowed this to happen that affected my day
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and Stephanie will go, she's lying to you,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: so you don't hedge on that it was the boy
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: being toxic. Yes, and she knows that you will open
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: your mouth and say that boy was being toxic.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: It's true, but like I want you to know that,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: like it, I won't like that should feel amazing.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I I wake up every day. I wake
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: up every day in the glow of knowing.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: That I you are your Cassandra, like you are all
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: those women.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I used to name all of the characters D and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: D writing little stupid songs. If it was a bitch
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and she was getting stuffed down, her name was Cassandra.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: And it was because my entire childhood in early twenties
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: was me going something ain't right and someone going hey,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: everything's cool, what are you talking about?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And every single time the persons saying that to you
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: is benefiting from the fact that bullshit was happening, do
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that, as being an
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: adult is realizing that the people that are saying, hey,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: be quiet, everything's fine, they're not your friends. No, they've
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: never been ever if they are profiting from the illusion
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: that you are questioning.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Because if your body, if your body and your brain
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: and everything is melting down, and you're going something isn't right.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Then something isn't fucking right.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Well, and also the base isn't going. What do you
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: mean I feel super cool right now? Like the baseline
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: is going, well, tell me more about that. Why don't
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you feel like it's right today? I, at a very
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: young age, got a hold of that Cassandra myth and
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, she's me and I am her. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: how often did Taylor Swift try to tell people that
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: John Mayer probably wasn't the nicest guy or whatever, And
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: she was like, boo, he made your body a wonderland.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Like boo, we like his throaty jeans. Yeah, she yeah,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: And it is it is always Cassandra's and Natlie Katona's
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: and Katie Maloney's who get burned first because they're threatening
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: the whole town.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: And they see it before everybody else.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the ones I I will not like implicate
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Darcy in this conversation, but like I definitely am one
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: of the I like I almost feel at times based
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: on like circumstance at the moment where I'm working, who
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I'm dating, just like what's happening in my life. I
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: find myself by default and by going on autopilot because
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: it's sucking tired being that's like almost like I'll hear
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: myself or like I'll write things down in my journal
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: and like a year later be like wait a minute,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Like I'm not a sympathizer of men. I'm not like
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: an apologist for this behavior. Why am I a press
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: secretary for these like absolute assholes, Because like I'm never
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: in the presence of people who are questioning their authority
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: like emotionally or otherwise, like or importance in my life
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: saying that's actually a really good point. I'm gonna think
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: about that, Like I go into auto pilot defend mode,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: where it's like or if there's a grain of if
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: you ever are like I hear you, because this is irrefutable.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: You're saying a thing you witnessed. I can't say anything
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: to that. I can't spin it. I can't wait. Yep, yep,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: you're right. I am not ready to give up the
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: ghost over that though, because like I still feel important.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: They still convinced me. I still like living in the
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: lie of like I'm special and this is it, Like
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it really is. It's very powerful that.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I feel like it kind of like kind of it's
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: similar to and fresh out the slammer when she says,
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: you know, I can't think like for the glimpse of
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: his smile.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: You know you are, you know, you're like throwing off
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: your whole life just to.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: Like for that little bit five minutes of sunshine or whatever.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: I'm totally gonna be mad at myself messing on later.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: I'm always like yeah, yeah, right, Like but that's so true.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: And I think it kind of is similar to like
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: the tone and but Daddy I love him, like and
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I I identify with you, Elizabeth.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: I'm like the independent part of it.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: In a way.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I feel like I've lived, you know, some type some
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: form of being in that position and it's also, like,
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: when you're being sold this story, you.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: Want to believe it. You want to believe your partner.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: You want to believe that he is you know what
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: he's telling you.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: No, they've practiced this, They've done it a lot, and you.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: Know, and and now it's like, Okay, well I can.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: Convince everybody else that this is is great because then
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: maybe I will.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Know believe it, and maybe it will be it's manifesting.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: It's trying to manifest my proxy and if they do
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: challenge it. I've said a version of this so many times.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: If somebody has like been like, no, actually, I'm a
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: cou bullshit, like this guy is a piece of shit,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Like I can fix them. Yeah, really, like really I can.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: He may be racist, you may have seen really bullshit
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: things about him, but like there is good in there,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to fucking chip away until I'm like
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: in that core.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Of who this is told so many times. Well, men
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: have flaws, right, they are right, You're not going to
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: find a perfect one. Uh your girlfriend. Oh.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I Also, this notion of like don't settle is very new.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like to any younger people who are enjoying the
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: fruits of that God bless before we were not told
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: that right exactly.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: We didn't know that not flucking them was an option
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: and you were supposed to settle.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: That was kind of the message of the nineties and
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: like the eighties, like it was like.
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: If this doesn't happen for you, your life doesn't matter.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, You're choosy, You're just being
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: too shy. While you were talking about like well, of course,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I also wanted to feel like I was important this
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: not just this week. Our good friend Annie c our
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: reality TV correspondent, was on the phone with me, and
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I was telling her a story that I've told them
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: this podcast about how I had a lack of boundaries
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: and too much sass and in high school I felt
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: like I was the most powerful old girl in the
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: world because my teacher, who was only several years older
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: than me because it was his first year of tej
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: told me, you know that your work is the work
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: I grade everyone else's work on because it's always perfect.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: And I told Annie, I was like, he should have
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: never told me that I was a menace from that
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: day forward, and she went, baby, he was grooming you.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: And then thirty five year old Damply had to walk
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: into the room and be like, bitch, you gotta stop
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: ragging about that story. You were being growled so shack.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Truly, I did so well. Okay, okay, this is so
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: on that note, like.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Every time I felt smart, it was groomy.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: It's never occurred to me. Okay. So when I went
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: to college the first time, I was fresh like from
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: high school, like it was two thousand and two. I
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: went to the university menthos what I wanted to do,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: bumped around in classes, did mediocre like whatever, Like I
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: would come sometimes I wouldn't Like I showed up for
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: the test. I never just bombed it, like I never
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: didn't read the material, like I was like one foot
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: in the door. Yeah, failed out to the point of
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: them writing me a letter that like you're gonna have
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: to like actually prove to us you need to come back.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: If you're going to come back, so you need to go.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: So I did.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: I became a bartender, waited tables, I did whatever for
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: a few years, and then was like it was a
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: certain time. It was before the recession, like this was
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: like two thousand and four. I was just gonna be
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: bartending and waiting tables unless I got a degree, and
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go back and finish.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: And they're like, no, no, you can't finish. You have
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: to start over because you've failed out like so completely,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: so write us a letter. I was like, m like,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: there's myself story about what happened to me, and then
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: please save me back. So they did so the second
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: this was after my glow up. I'll be honest, I
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: didn't get grown until like beginning of college. Like I
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: was a very late lumer. So when I look at
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: pictures of myself round one at the University of This,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: I looked like on mean girls, it's like a twelve
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: year old German boy, like if you caught Regina doors hair.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: I had a very short haircut, like I was not developed.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I did not have curves. I did not look like
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: a woman. When I went back, it was I just
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I looked grown up, like it was like more or
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: less like how it liked now, but a lot less
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: like smokers wrinkles. So I got like the best grades
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: and like I did study really hard, like I know,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: like I was applying myself. I'm very proud of like
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: personally when I know I did. But I now look
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: back and think about like the best grades I got
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: and the ones that I was like, oh, I wish
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: like I hadn't got to B plus in that class,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Like I wish i'd been like every other class where
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: I was like ninety nine Dean's List whatever. Those were
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: all women. The ones that gave me these like those
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: were like and I respect, like I still am in
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: touch with some of them, but like those were honest grades.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: The classes that I got, like ninety nine, one hundreds,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: the ones where they would pull that happened to me now,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: like that actually happened to me. I got pulled in
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: front of the class when I was, you know, like
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: twenty seven years old in a communist China the History
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: of Communism in China class where we had to write
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: like thirty page papers. It was like, very serious. This
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: man was like, I've never been in the presence of
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: a woman or anyone else who did such a fabulous
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: job on our final research paper. So she will live
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: in my mind as the legend in this class because
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I don't give about a ninety and she got a
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: ninety nine, and I'm going to post her paper up front,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: so anyone that wants to can come read it because
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: it is just a shining example of the work I
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: expect in this class. I held every single I still
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like a gus want a client smart. But
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: like also that same semester in an English class that
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: like I was kind of dialing in because it's like
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I'm good at that, so I wasn't like pustling like
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: that professor called me into his office because I did
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: kind of I miss this one exam day because I
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: go to a stupid frat party the night before anyway,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: So he's like, oh, you missed this. I was like
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: that's going to really compromise your grades. So what are
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: we gonna do? And I was like, oh, I don't
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: want extra credit. Oh I did not even know how
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: bad I did not want this extra credit. Like this
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: dude seriously was like no, not a paper or not,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: because I was like I don't even know how that,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Like I work, I don't know if I have time
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: for that. And he's like, I'm not offering you extra credit.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Like right, I'm offering you dot dot dot appreciate me.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: No, No, he's because I was like what because like
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: I really wasn't held into like the I was fucking
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: expecting because I'm whatever, and like he's like, if you're
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: going to come in here dressed like that with the
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: grade that you have, I just want you to like
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: what do you think I'm saying? And I like was
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: like what?
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: And then like like what are you saying?
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Sirs say it?
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: But they won't like that was it? He would like
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: I knew, and he knew obviously, but like and then
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: how do you say no? How do you say no
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: to something they're not even asking? I remember that being
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: the most awkward part, like feeling so cheap, so immediately
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: like oh fuck, like I'm not even here to like
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: make grades, like this is so stupid, but like also
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: shame on me for wearing short shorts and like a
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: tight T shirt or whatever, Like I felt embarrassed. I
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: felt ashamed. And then I'm like, how do I even
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: leave his office? Doores closed? Were in like a cubicle basically,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: and he didn't say anything that I can say no
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: to all. How do I even say I don't want
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: to do that? Because he didn't, he insinuated, I can't
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: say no, I don't accept the assignment. I can't say
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I choose not to do the thing you're implying, I can't.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: There was no way to navigate like a response other
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: than getting on my knees and sucking this man stick
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: because by design.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: So I remember, like I actually.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Simpsoned out of the office and was just like, good,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I gotta go bye, and then just like never went
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: back to the class. I took an f That's part
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: of the I had to go back like it was like.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: There's nothing I hate more the fact that they won't
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: say it, because if you say it, then they didn't
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: do anything wrong.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. What's the Taylor Swift line? To get back
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: to the point, Well, I can tell when someone wants me.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Like I can. I got it. I have the work around.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: So when I reiterated this story to Stepanie, because Sevanie
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: went to the same high school with me, I went,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: can you believe it? I was groomed. I didn't even
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: know until Annie had to say it to me. Stephanie said,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: it's fine, she goes. We grew up in a day
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: of age where everything in every movie was like, do
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: you know the quickest way to be the main character
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: of your own story is to have some man who
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: has no business being in your life tell you that
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: you're brilliant and you're smart and you're pretty, and that's
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: what happens to girls. And then of course also creep
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: is going to creep on them. That is also a
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: part of your main character art. And she goes, and
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: there was no one who has more I have, like
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I have an unhealthy amount of main character energy.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: This we know.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think most of us sitting in front
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: of a microphone like share that, but I feel the same.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I have, like I have it in droves, Like I
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: ended up telling Annie. I was like, here's the thing.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: The guy that I know was grooming me actively at
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: thirteen years old. I remember being that thirteen year old
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: girl being like, of course he wants me. I'm so
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: much smarter than all the other girls in my clothes.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm so funny. Normal glories are boring, and I
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: think it's always so. I think Taylor Swift is telling
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: us in this album like it's all designed by them,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and therefore, when these things happened to us, at no
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: point is that on us, Like it's never been my fault.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: You kept telling me it was my fault, and it's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: never been my fault. And I think that the imagery
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: that she uses right before I can do it with
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: a broken heart is the biggest sign of sure, you're
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: the main character, but you're not the writer or director.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that just like give me chells. That's
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: so good. That's so true, Like, oh, that's really good
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: because like for me, when I've listened to it, it's
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: been still she's a big character. Like it's like she's
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: like the superhero of the story being like I get
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: like got it, I can't, I can't, I can do it,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: And like you just said that, and it was like,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: oh my god, it is so dark. It's so much
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: darker than like even the darkness I thought that was there,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: because you're right, it's and of course, like we get
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: the visual enhancement of like the the whole yeah, the
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Ariostore edition of the Torgi Prodes Department, Like everything about
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: that is just so supporting what you're saying, like you know,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: the interest of that song and everything, like I love that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Oh sure, bitch, be Margot, Robbie, be her,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: be the main character. Be Barbie. You're not the girl
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: signing paychecks and you're not the girl writing the story,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: and you sure as hell, aren't producing it because we
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: won't give you enough money. We're not paying women to produce,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: and you're sure is how not writing the story? I
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: will say the last relate the guy I was referring
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: to earlier.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: That was the the torture poets dropped day, Like my
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: most recent long term boyfriend he was having unprotected sex with.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Like I stopped responding to the messages on Facebook and
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: other avenues when it was at like nineteen eighteen different women,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: all single mothers, all recently out of abusive marriages recently before,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: like it it's pathological, Like he literally moves like a
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: serial killer. But he hated, I can do it with
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: the bro like he was like performatively, like it's sort
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: of like enthusiastic about the album that like that one.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: He was like, it doesn't fit. I don't get it.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: It's just like this like bop that doesn't belong, but
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: like it doesn't even hit as heart as like some
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: of our others. And I was like really, and.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Then like I totally don't agree with that.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: No, Now I think about it, and I'm like, of course,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: like because like I'm such a main character in your
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: fake life, Like I'm the primary. I'm the like the
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: best one because you got me to co sign alone
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: on things like it was like this whole like I
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: was like a good credit score in a pretty face
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: where like he would like take me to the show.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: I was the public girlfriend, Like seriously he was.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: He was known enough socially where I'm from that like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: there needed to be this like figurehead like to to
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: propagate the idea that he's this like family guy and
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: settled down and like devoted like significant other. Like but
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: then all the women I talk to you behind the scenes,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: like it's like, oh my god, like it was not
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: this was he was pretending I was the main character.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: But then of course you don't like that song because
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: like it's calling out the way we have to hurt
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: heel and perform after people like him in our lives.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's also like because I love Cam, Cam,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: if you're listening, maybe I'll just pull this and put
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: it on TikTok. I love you Cam. I actively missed
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: you during the break. I actively missed you.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Just joy to my life.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's so beautiful that she uses
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Cam and that other guy whose name I don't know,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: because he's not Cam, Yeah, but he's very prevalent in
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: the Aras tour as well. Stevanie knows his name. I
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: don't perceive men so only Cam and but I think
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: that like that's part of it, Like she used Cam
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: and the other guy who's so prevalent in the aerostour
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: because it's like and it's always these guys that are
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: always around propping you up, being like but you're brilliant, talented.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: So fucking cool that like we don't even have to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: wait for a music video to be like show me
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: more like the set pieces, like the choreo, everything on
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: the tour is like, okay, so down, I'll tell you,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: like this is what it is. It's like, of course,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: like the men around you that are like invested also
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: financially or otherwise in your success or perception of that,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: are going to be like get the fuck up, like
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: get dressed, Come on, do it, do it?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Do it.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: I I burst into tears probably within the first five
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: words of Who's Afraid of Little Old Me? Watching it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: on that first live stream, I just burst into tears
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: because phenomenal. Also, the entire platform that this podcast is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: built upon is you fuckers should be scared because I'm
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: ready to just start screaming my tails. Well, it's also
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: this like.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Like warning cry almost that like because you take us
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: so not seriously. Uh huh, that is dangerous. You're really
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: fucking like setting the stage for an actual revolution.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, sure, I'm at the party, I'm drinking the white Claw,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: I'm cute, I'm fun, I'm flirty. But the moment you
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: disrespect my friend in front of me, I'm gonna be
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: like bad man, bad man out of the party. And
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: therefore you should always be a little bit afraid of me.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: And I've gotten to the point where a majority of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the men who are just kind of on the periphery
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: of my life are afraid of me.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: I blew this man's life up on Facebook. I literally
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: wrote every member of his family that I had contact
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: info for exactly what he did with text receipts, because
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: they're disgusting. And I'm done letting these absolute assholes just
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: fucking room free and go to work at their stupid
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: jobs and play in their stupid bands and fuck off
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: with their stupid bros and just enjoy the fruits of
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: other people's labors and life. No, and you know how
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: many times I've been called petty and bullshit by dudes,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: and you know how many fucking like legit like I've
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: cried corresponds I've had with women in the local area
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: that are like, literally, my friend was about to sleep
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: with this man, my friend went on a date with him,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: my friend met with like matched him on hand, my
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: friend this, my friend this, like dozens dozens where they're like,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: you're the reason they didn't and I'm like, well, then
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I'm the reason they don't have to go to get
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: an STD test and they're not going to be shattered
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: in six months because this is pathological.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: And part of the patriarchy, and part of the thing
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: that Taylor Swift is always screaming against Swift Narcotics and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: her songs is that they keep us silent on purpose.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: The reason why they were like, well, we'll kill you
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: if you talk. And at this point Taylor's like, bet
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: do it, Like, okay, murder me. We're all there. I
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: feel like we literally are all there.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will be a martyr for the cause. Yeah,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: if it means might as well die, might as well,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: might as well, Like it'll be no different, It's.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: More likely to happen to us than a heart attack,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: show your ass.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: They should make it loud, because I it's just as
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: likely it'll be in the woods by a stranger, not
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: a bear, So like, yeah, let it be seen. Put
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: it on seat, like close, like all the cameras do
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: something that is going to actually bring awareness to the
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: fact that we live in through every fucking day.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Heyka is like slander me on TMZ. My thousands of
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: cult members who I don't even like, right, will burn
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: your house down. Absolutely.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: That's so true though that she's like kind of flexing
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: this like I don't even like ask for it, but
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: like I could kill you.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I don't even like it. I wrote a whole song
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: about how I don't even like them, and they're like, yeah,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: squeen hundred dollars for these concert tickets, and a lot
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: of people will be like, that's so shitty to write
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: a song about how you don't even like your fans,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: and it's like, no, it's actually I got it. I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: loved it, like I have such a power move.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I'm so here for it. I'm scream singing it even
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: though I'm like I am them, I am daddy, I
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: don't care call me out like I like that I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: want some honest art in a way that like it
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: just baffles me and people are like not impressed.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: As we know, I said on a hot mic right
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: after I went to the arastour, I'm like, not that
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Taylor knows this, but I built an entire marketing plan
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: around her and going to the Aras tour and whatever,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: and what does she do this summer data Nazi? And
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Taylor, Taylor, I'm trying to be on your side.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: We've all dated some equivalent piece of shit.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: But she did not, I promise you, she didn't know
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: he was a Nazi.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: She didn't know he was watching Torch reportn She didn't
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: know any of it because that's what they fucking do.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Well, because then like he gets to rest on the babe.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: It's all a bit. It's all a bit for the band,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: and she plays that game too, so he's like, like
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: what you do with your little Easter eggs and your
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: capitalized letters. I understood how we got there. I wasn't
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: happy it happened during my Eras tour. I was going
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: to spit on him if he showed up in Chicago.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: But I understood because I too have dated a man
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, we're on opposite sides of the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: race wars and the class.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Right shit, But like they had an energy where it
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I don't I gonna say I get it,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like I have an understanding of the
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: dynamic and the passion that is being like transferred purposefully
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: and like the rush, but that also comes so much
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: with like the love bombing and like the narcissistic cycle.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: So where it's like it is a drug, it is
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: like mending like have you ever tried whatever?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: Well, and he's probably fed that to her, I mean
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: from what we can understand. I mean now, I mean
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: how many songs are about Maddie that I we never
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: like Maroon being about Maddie like blew my mind. But
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: it also shows a lot though, because if she was.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Singing that then and well and the theories of.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Like hard Again being about him, and it's just it's
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: connected so much that I think he's probably been feeding
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: her bullshit for a very long time.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: And when when you.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: Leave, Joe, when you leave, you know what, I'm sure
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: it was something that she was in a position that
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: you couldn't.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: When all of the stars align and we're finally sinkle
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: at the exact time, and you're gonna have my baby,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be catastrophic for the world, for us,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: for our families, and again feeding into my insane main
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: character energy, I'm like, yeah, the world should burn because
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: I'm getting fucked right for the first time ever. The
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: world should burn.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: And we obviously, like we all watched her in Joe's
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: like relationship go up and write I mean, I feel
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: like it's been down for a long time.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: And it just it. I don't know where I was
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: going with Well.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, you asked us another question and was supposed
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: to be the first question. What's the song that you
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: almost skipped