Latest / Motherhood Alliance Podcast / Why Rest and Stretching Aren't Fixing Your Pain w/ Dr. Matt Buch | Total Pursuit PT
Transcript
- Britney: We are really excited to learn about your expertise and learn so much from you in four different episodes. But for any of our listeners who have been following us for any period of time, you guys know that we like to start out with learning a little bit about our guests, including a fun fact. And you had shared that you and your wife spent your first two anniversaries backpacking. So tell us about those experiences. Where did you go and how much, how much did you love it? And have you been back? Matt Buch: Yeah. No, it was awesome. So it's funny, like most of our friends are people that we know, know, when you think of doing a, you know, an anniversary trip or something like that, you think of, you know, going to a Sandals Resort ⁓ or beach or something like that, which we totally did for our honeymoon. But our idea of a vacation is just doing something super active, which is probably why I'm in the field that I'm in. Yeah, so for our first anniversary, did a 50 mile backpacking trip through Yosemite National Park. It was kind of like our highlight trip where we ⁓ our route out, got to go up on top of Half Dome, came back down and then just kind of continued through a lot of the different highlights through the park, carried everything on our back and slept out in the wilderness for five nights. It was ⁓ absolutely incredible. ⁓ Britney: Hey everyone, we are Brit and Drea from motherhoodalliance.com and we are excited to welcome you to a four episode series with Dr. Matt Buch, a doctor of physical therapy, board certified orthopedic specialist, and the owner of total pursuit physical therapy and performance based out of De Pere, Wisconsin. Dr. Matt works with active people of all kinds from athletes who love to train hard to parents who simply want to run around with their kids without dealing with constant aches and pains. But what really sets him apart is his belief that pain isn't something you just live with. Yeah, I was going to ask if you were, if you were backpack like camping then, right? So, and you carried all your food. Did you have to, can you hunt there? Were you able to like get food off the, okay. Matt Buch: Highly recommend it. ⁓ yeah. No, no, definitely not. So we carried all of our food. We lived off of, you know, like, Clif bars and dehydrated meals and stuff like that. So we definitely weren't eating in luxury, but the first meal we had when we came back was probably like the best meal I've ever had just because we were, you know, out in the wilderness for ⁓ five But no, it was great. Yeah, you carry everything on your back. Britney: So if you've ever been told to rest more, stretch more, or chalk it up to getting older, he is really passionate about challenging that mindset. His approach focuses on uncovering the root cause so that you can move better and feel stronger for the long haul. Dr. Matt creates customized treatment plans that often combine hands-on techniques like dry needling, cupping, and joint manipulation with strength training, movement coaching, and realistic habit shifts that actually fit your life. It's not just about getting you out of pain. It's about keeping you active long-term. Yeah. Matt Buch: As the trip goes on, the pack gets a little bit lighter because you start eating your food, which is kind of nice. And yeah, we actually, we flew there, we rented a car, parked our rental car where we were going to come out and then hitchhiked all the way back to ⁓ where we were going to start. So that was new. Never done before. Yeah, right. ⁓ And then our second Britney: And outside the clinic, he's an avid bow hunter, climber, outdoor enthusiast, husband, and dad to two young boys. So he truly understands the value of being able to move well and keep up with the life that you love. We can't wait for you guys to get to know him. And here he is. Welcome Dr. Matt. Andrea Renkas: interesting. Matt Buch: Thank you so much for having me. For our second anniversary, we went out to Banff National Park in British Columbia, Canada. My wife, Kate, was actually about six months pregnant at that time, so we took it a little bit easier on ⁓ the and backpacking side of things. We did a night or two out, but then really just camped and did lot of day hikes and saw all the views, and that was awesome too. most beautiful places I've ever been. Britney: How old are your kids now? Andrea Renkas: Wow. Matt Buch: They are three, so Titus is our oldest boy, he's three, and Ira, our youngest boy, he just turned one about three weeks ago. ⁓ Britney: Do you have like aspirations to take them on their first backpacking trip when they're like a certain age? Are you counting down the days? Matt Buch: ⁓ yeah, absolutely, 100%. They need to be able to carry their own packs though, so it'll probably be a little bit. ⁓ So to answer your other question, no, we haven't been back because then we started having kids and those types of things change little bit. But once they're older, we're definitely gonna ⁓ get out there and we're gonna hit it again. Andrea Renkas: ⁓ yeah. Britney: Yeah. My husband and I did a trip down to like New Mexico area. His brother lives down there. So we dropped our kids off with them. And then the two of us went and we did dispersed camping. So we actually slept in the back of our trucks. We had our truck the whole time, but it was where we went to Colorado and then ⁓ Utah and then the Grand Canyon, North and South rims. And it was like the best vacation ever because you kind of had that like luxury stuff, but also we had nothing planned. And I loved that because I hate planning things, but it was great. It was great. Matt Buch: That's the best when you can just kind of wake up and be like, ⁓ what are we going to do today? Let's kind of make it up as we go. Britney: Yeah, it was. And we had like a downpour, but you're in the back of a truck with like a cap on it, so it was fine. It was fine. Well, let's hear a little bit about your journey becoming a PT. What got you interested in the first place? Tell us about what you've done for staying active in the past. Just tell us all about you. Matt Buch: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. So, ⁓ I don't really have a, you know, a crazy like injury story. ⁓ a lot of PTs, you know, they tore their ACL playing soccer and their PT, you know, really helped, you know, get them back into, into the game. And that's what inspired them to, become a PT. I was pretty lucky. I kind of avoided the injury bug growing up aside from a couple, ⁓ bumps and bruises, but, Really what, got me interested was, I knew I wanted to do something healthcare related, ⁓ because I loved, you know, just learning about how the body worked ⁓ you know, what really makes us, what really makes us tick. And so I actually just kind of figured I would do a lot of shadowing and, ⁓ just different options that were out there. So, ⁓ my uncle's a dentist, so I shadowed him, ⁓ decided I really didn't like teeth that much. So that was out. ⁓ looked into like optometry, some different fields of medicine. ⁓ and then finally stumbled upon this thing called physical therapy and growing up, you know, running track, playing baseball, snowboarding, ⁓ you know, just really being a, an active person who would rather be outside than inside any day of the week in any weather, movement is, super important to me. and I kind of just began to realize like, You know, if that was taken away from me, that would be like the worst thing imaginable for me if I couldn't physically function to do the things that I love to do. So that just kind of really inspired me to kind go down that path. And that's essentially what led me here ⁓ is being able to help people stay active, stay moving. do the things that actually help them their life to the fullest. Britney: for sure. And I love the topics that you've picked because I feel like they're so relatable to so many people. In this episode, we're going to be talking about like why rest and stretching may not be fixing your pain or like why, why things may not be coming and stemming directly from where the pain source is. Because I feel like there's so many people who have, an injury or they have they'd say it's chronic lower back pain, but it kind of comes and goes or chronic knee pain that comes and goes and they rest it and they ice it and they stretch it and they take ibuprofen, but like nothing's changing. So what are they doing wrong in these like everyday instances? Matt Buch: Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I think the first thing to that that's really important to remember is that pain always a symptom, not necessarily a cause, which, sounds super obvious, but, ⁓ I think a of times what people end up defaulting to, ⁓ and even what our, what our modern medical system tends to, move toward is just pain management. So. taking a medication, using heat and ice, until the pain goes away. And then just going right back to what you were doing. The problem with that is that pain ⁓ is always last thing to show up and then the first thing to go away ⁓ when there is an underlying problem. So what we really try to do ⁓ as practice here is we want to figure out why are you actually getting into pain in the first place. all of those other things, ⁓ rest, the pain medication, ice, heat, there's ⁓ a place for those, especially during an acute injury ⁓ when just need to get things to calm down. But once things are calmed down, then what we want to do is figure out how did you get to this point in the first place and address that so that this isn't going to be a recurring injury like what Britney: Mm-hmm. Matt Buch: unfortunately happens to so many people. Britney: What are some of the common injuries that you're seeing in your practice where it's, know, it's a lot of people have them. Matt Buch: Yeah, so we see a ton of shoulders. I think just naturally with the clientele we see, we see a lot of busy, active adults who are maybe trying to ⁓ keep with stuff around the house. Maybe they work a manual labor job. Maybe they're just trying to continue to play sports with their kids. I've seen a number of people who ⁓ want to... throw a ball with their kids, whether it's a football, a softball, whatever, it's just not happening. And what I see more often is that pain isn't what brings people in, it's when the pain gets bad enough to prevent people from doing those things that give their life meaning, ⁓ from participating those activities that really fulfill their So ⁓ that's a big ⁓ the other thing is, you know, knee pain and, and even low back pain. we see a lot of runners, a lot ⁓ of, know, for, for, for this audience, we see a lot of moms who, you know, have maybe put ⁓ their athletic, kind of the, on the shelf for a little bit while they're raising young kids and, they have young families. But, you know, as their kids get a little bit older, they start getting into sports. like, all right, perfect. Now I can get back into. You know, running, for example, which is something that I've always loved to do. ⁓ I know we're going to do an episode on this later, but they start, they go out for their first run and all of a sudden they come home and their knee is swollen or, or, you know, their, their back really starts to hurt as they, begin to get back into this. And unfortunately, a lot of people are just like, well, I guess ⁓ just not for me anymore. my body can't handle it. I'm getting older. ⁓ yeah, exactly. I'm too old. Britney: Too old. Matt Buch: They might go to their primary care and their primary care is like, well, have you thought about just biking? You know, things like that. And then I think, unfortunately, a lot of times people are like, well, I guess I'm not doing that anymore without really giving it a ⁓ second thought as to, is this something that I can do with a proper approach? Britney: You know, and another one that comes to mind too is all the desk jobs out there. I mean, my husband feels this for sure. He's a financial advisor. And so he does sit a lot. And when you meet with people around his computer and he has a ton of like upper shoulder and neck tension. so that's a great example, as well as the ones that you were just talking about for somebody who has a job or the things that they do every day are kind of causing some of this discomfort. Maybe it's from a postural issue or something like that. Matt Buch: Mm-hmm. Britney: Should you be stretching? Should you be strengthening? Should you be resting? Like how do you approach this when it's something you do have to do every day? Matt Buch: Yeah. So answer to that question is yes ⁓ all of those. I think where people kind of get hung up ⁓ is lot times these symptoms that they get, like let's take ⁓ the desk for example. The ⁓ common American is kind of that like rounded shoulders, like chin forward. You're sitting at a computer all day long. Even, looking down at a cell phone all day long, like that's pretty typical now. So what you're gonna feel is a lot of tightness. You're gonna feel a lot of tightness through the front of your shoulders, through your chest, because of that rounded position. You're gonna feel a lot of tightness in the back of your neck, because of that chin forward position. And so naturally what people tend to do is just stretch, which is fine for symptom management. It'll help loosen things up and you'll feel better immediately after stretching. But then you go back to work the next day, sit like that for eight hours again, you're back ⁓ the same position again. So what we ⁓ to figure out is how we use stretching, rest, whatever it is, to just get those ⁓ symptoms down. And then from there, how do we build up your body's tolerance so that you are sitting in a more appropriate posture, or you are sitting in a more supported to where you're not constantly getting that, you know, desk posture. And we do a lot of strengthening through ⁓ the to allow those muscles to ⁓ pull shoulders back. We do a lot of strengthening through some of the deep neck muscles ⁓ to give you some proper neck support, ⁓ head and then really start to train. Okay, how do we... our bodies to utilize these muscles that we're not even getting into the position where we feel like we have to stretch all the time in the first place. Andrea Renkas: Yeah, well, was gonna ask what are some good stretches that you might recommend to somebody because we like you said, a lot of people are doing this slouchy thing. And ⁓ I honestly, don't know a lot of people who have perfect posture. There's, there's plenty of people who have awareness, but even I sometimes slouch a lot too. And I know I need to stretch that chest out and things like that. So what are some examples of some stretching you have for people? Matt Buch: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, to just real quick. I want to touch on the perfect posture thing. Like I'm definitely not saying that everybody has to have perfect posture. ⁓ that's not super realistic, but the body does ⁓ movement. ⁓ doesn't like to sit in the same position all day long. So ⁓ ways to, you know, cue yourself every 30 minutes to, you know, sit up, do some, what I would call like shoulder blade squeezes. ⁓ I almost like to think of taking your shoulder blades and pulling them down toward your back pockets. ⁓ going to really open your chest up nicely. It's going to engage those muscles between your shoulder blades. And it's also going to prevent you from just shrugging your shoulders ⁓ as you're trying to squeeze those shoulder blades, which can lead to some other issues with neck tension, headaches, things like that. other one would just be, this one's a little bit less flattering, but taking your chin and just kind of tucking it into your neck, making like a double chin type that really stretches out the back of the neck. Nice. and it engages those deep muscles. So that would be another one that if you are working a desk job, you know, every half hour, just kind of tuck your chin, hold for a second or two, relax, do 10 reps of that or so, and then go right back to your normal work. just ⁓ little things like that where you're adjusting your body's movement and not just ⁓ in that slouched over position for hours on end. can make a huge difference. Britney: This makes me also think about for people who feel like they're not naturally flexible, but they want to work on it. Do you have any tips for somebody who feels like they're stretching and stretching and stretching and they're not really making progress in their flexibility or their mobility really, if that's more of their goal. Is there something that they're missing in that instance or why isn't stretching always the answer? Matt Buch: would I would say more often than not, if you are somebody who is doing a lot of stretching and just not really feeling like you're getting anywhere, there's probably a weakness component to it as well. So let's use the hamstrings, for example. ⁓ lot of people really try to stretch their hamstrings. They do their toe touches. Yeah, right. But then they're like, I I just have tight hamstrings. Like, I'm never going to touch my toes or this isn't getting any any better. What usually is happening is, especially if they're, you know, a runner or someone who is doing a little bit more of an active lifestyle, you know, maybe they're, working out on a regular basis. Their hamstrings are probably weak ⁓ what's going on is you're that muscle. So you're running, that hamstring starts to fatigue out and then as a protective mechanism, it tightens up. to protect the muscle from being overstretched because it can't tolerate the load that you're putting on it. So what I tell people is, is if you have been stretching and it just doesn't feel like you're getting anywhere, we probably need to test out your strength. We got to see, you know, how strong are these muscles? there's a good chance that we're going to find some weakness. And once we really build up the strength and load tolerance of those muscles, you're going to start to notice that you don't feel like you have to stretch all the time anymore because those muscles aren't feeling that tight kind of tensed up sensation that they get when they are overworked. Britney: Hmm. Yeah, no, that's a really good point. then I, you know, I also think about how you're talking about tense ⁓ like in your hamstrings, but then also the whole body is connected. Like we are one big kinetic chain. have fascia all over. And so how often is it that you're seeing that somebody's tightness or pinpoint is actually not like the actual Andrea Renkas: That makes sense. Britney: issue and it's actually stemming from somewhere else but it's like ricocheting through the body to create pain in a different area. Is that something you see a lot? Matt Buch: It is. I would say it's not always stemming from somewhere else or that's not always the cause. Sometimes it certainly is, but more often than not, there's going to be a lot of contributing factors. So say dealing with somebody with knee pain, for example, very, very seldomly is it just going to be one issue that looking at. So for example, you know, a weak thigh muscle your quad muscle, for example. There's probably some stuff going on at the ankle. There's probably some stuff going on up at the hip that's impacting the way that your knee is moving. It might not be the direct reason that the knee is having an issue, but it's probably compounding effect of it, if that makes sense. So anytime that we get a client into the office, if knee hurts. we are not just looking at their knee, we're looking at how their entire body is moving from their neck all the way down to their toes because we want to figure out, okay, one of the body is not moving correct, ⁓ if side your body is weaker than the other, how is that causing you to compensate when you're doing, you know, let's say you're doing a boot camp workout, you're doing, you know, a hundred squats in a workout. As you fatigue, how is your body starting to compensate? ⁓ and then how is that leading itself to, causing your knee pain? so really it is a, it is a bit of a puzzle when we bring somebody in. I almost like to describe it as we're, just peeling back layers. So we're going to start at the area of interest, you know, hit the low hanging fruit there. And then we just kind of work our way out and figure out what other parts of the body are contributing to. ⁓ this movement pattern, this that you're compensating, whatever it is that is impacting this particular spot that you're having pain in. Britney: somebody is currently struggling with a nagging issue, whether it's tightness pain, do you feel like should be kind of their steps ⁓ to try and overcome that? Should they be icing and ibuprofying? And I know every situation is to be different, but in general, like tightness or pain kind of walk us through what people should try and then when they should really come and see a PT. Matt Buch: Totally. for, the icing and ibuprofen, you know, if, if you are, if, is an injury that has, has just happened, you know, let's say you're, you know, playing soccer with your kids in the backyard, you step in a hole and twist your knee. Sure. Like that's totally appropriate. ⁓ especially if you have a lot of swelling, You really don't want to use those modalities long term because what it's going to do is it's going to start to mask your symptoms more than it is going to help anything. So the step process or the step by step process that most people take is they'll use the ice, the pain medication, whatever. And then what I would say is once that swelling or you you're kind of through that initial 48 to 72 hours from that initial injury, then you wanna start just kind of doing what we would call a little bit of graded exposure. So just kind of do what you can that's going to be relatively pain-free. And by that, mean, a three to four out of 10 or less, a little bit of discomfort, totally normal. If it's distracting you or preventing you from doing something, you're probably doing a little bit too much. you can start to work through that a little bit, do some gentle, ⁓ if we're using the knee example, ⁓ kind of start moving your knee through its full range of motion and then slowly grade yourself back into, your activity, you're probably going to be just fine. Where I would recommend people come and see somebody like myself is if this been something that's been going on for more than, you know, two weeks ⁓ and you're just getting back to where you want to be, there's probably some stuff underneath the surface that needs to get addressed. There's probably some weakness or some tissue intolerance ⁓ we need to figure out how to build up your body's ability to go through these movements and these activities again without going through lot of compensation. Because unfortunately we see a lot of is people will put off care of something like this until it really starts ⁓ affect their ability to enjoy their life. And then a lot of times people come in here and they're like, well, I've been dealing with this for a year and a half or two years, something like that. And by that point, they've started to really develop all sorts of other issues through their body compensating. Because your body is always gonna find the most efficient way to perform a movement. So you're going to start to develop all of these little cheats and shortcuts. then that's when we get into the weeds of really having to, ⁓ know, dissect all of these different parts of your body that have slowly started to adapt in a negative way because of this ⁓ original ⁓ So always tell people the best way to avoid an injury is to not get injured in the first place. Second best way is to take care of it. Britney: Yeah. Matt Buch: before it really becomes a nagging issue. Andrea Renkas: I love that you said two weeks. Yep, two weeks, people. Britney: So I know that you offer a free consult. that correct? So if somebody is listening to this and they're like, yeah, that's me. I've had this nagging thing forever or for a few weeks. Um, how would they get in contact with you and then tell us about your free consult? Matt Buch: Mm-hmm. Totally. So, they can go to our website and they just go to the, contact us section in the upper right corner, there will be a, an opportunity for them to put in their contact information. we can contact them. Otherwise we have a scheduling link right on the, on the website as well. our consultation is a free 30 minute phone call. The reason I do that ⁓ is I really just don't want to waste people's time. I want to make sure that we can absolutely help them. And I want to make sure that the way that we do things is what they're looking for. So what we do is we go through a phone call where we'll ask you all about your symptoms, your history, kind of what got you to this point in the first place. We're going to ask you about your goals, what you're really looking to get back into doing. And then... we're gonna walk you through exactly what our process looks like. If everything makes sense, then we'll schedule the initial evaluation from there. If it doesn't make sense, then we will help you find somebody that might be a better fit. But we just really wanna make sure that this is going to be a good option for somebody before they commit to actually coming in and even seeing us for that initial evaluation. Britney: I love that because I feel like if you're going to like a bigger place that has multiple locations and 25 PTs, like you don't, you don't necessarily get that. kind of pick one based off their bio on the website and you're just hoping and assuming that they're going to be a good fit for you. Right. And I love that you said that you don't want to waste somebody's time because when somebody's finally willing to admit that they need PT and they're going to take the time and the money to go do it, like they don't want to have to start over with someone else. So I think that's, that's amazing that you do that. is your, ⁓ is your website? Matt Buch: Totally. Absolutely. It is totalpursuitpt.com. Britney: So this was a great first episode. I feel like this is going to be so relatable to so many people because who doesn't have a periodic aches and pains. And it's just kind of like great to kind of know where to start and when you actually need to seek help, but we're going to be getting into a little bit deeper topics in our next couple episodes. Next one, we're going be diving more into that knee and back pain. Specifically also getting into like CrossFit and HIIT workouts and why those things tend to show up a little bit more in those types of workouts and what you can do to actually kind of bulletproof those areas a little bit. we're also going to be talking about running, having a whole episode about running. So whether you are currently a runner or you were a runner in the past and you're entertaining, jumping back into it and you want to just make sure that you're not getting injured in the process. Cause nobody has time for that. That's going to be a great episode for you. And then finally, in our fourth episode with Dr. Matt, we're going to be talking about dry needling, which I'm pretty sure most people have heard about now, but it sounds really scary. And so you're going to help us understand what's actually happening in that episode. So we're excited for three more. Matt Buch: Awesome. Looking forward to it.