Latest / The Ageless Warrior Lab / Ryron Gracie - The Philosophy Behind Gracie Jiu-Jitsu | EP 50

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Ryron Gracie - The Philosophy Behind Gracie Jiu-Jitsu | EP 50 · The Ageless Warrior Lab

0:00
SPEAKER_00: I can't think of any bad positions in jiu-jitsu.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Now I can think of a bad situation that someone's in.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're split control, someone's paying both your arms, they're side mounted and you punching you in the face, you're in a bad situation.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: But let's just say side mount, mount, guard, just the positions of jujitsu.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: There is no good and bad.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: If you're under someone's side mount, you're not in a bad place.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: You're in a position where if they isolate your arms, they can do damage.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: But isolating my arms is going to be very difficult because I have skills to keep myself safe from the bottom of side mount.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: And when you make effort to submit me or to strike me, you give me space, therefore opportunity to escape.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Agents Warrior Lab.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm BJJ Coral Belt and Dirty Dozen member Dave Meyer, here to draw wisdom from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the martial arts and explore how it applies to success in business, relationships, your long-term health, and making the most out of your life.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: What you're about to hear is a discussion I had with Hiron Gracie.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Hiron was born into the Gracie family and therefore born into jiu-jitsu.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: He is the grandson of Grandmaster Helio Gracie and the son of Master Horion Gracie, co-founder of the UFC.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: The Gracie family is responsible for the explosion of Brazilian jiu-jitsu around the world.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: And today, Hiron, his brother and partner Heather, along with Gracie University certified training centers around the world, have made it their mission to spread Gracie Jiu-Jitsu even further.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Hiron teaches in person at his academy in Los Angeles, which is where I spoke with him.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And he travels the world teaching seminars and has online training curriculums and information on various programs, all available at GracieUniversity.com.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: So sit back and enjoy my discussion with Hiron Gracie.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Hiron, I'm so happy to get to meet you and thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to hang out and I appreciate your energy.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad we can talk.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh listen, I'm sure I've seen you over the years.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: I started jujitsu with Higgin Machado right out here, not far from here, where we are in we're at the Gracie Academy right now, the Gracie University in Southern California.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: And but we just never got a chance to meet.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad to do it now.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: And I really love your stuff online, which we're gonna of course link to.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we're friends who just haven't met yet.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, which I think that happens a lot in the jiu-jitsu world.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're family.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think well, I think there are people out there who have yet to meet, but if they met, they would connect very well.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot I'd like to chat with you about, but I want to jump right into one subject that I've been thinking about a lot lately, and that I think maybe more people should be thinking about.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: When I started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, there were no competitions here in the United States.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: There were some competitions in Brazil.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: And it was a fighting art.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: So everything we were doing was how to take a fight safely to the ground, how to control somebody, how to finish them on the ground.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: And that merged very well.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: I had a lifetime of jiu-jitsu prior to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, to Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: And when we were rolling on the ground, when we were saying, okay, no strikes, let's just roll, the idea was always, well, we're holding back on strikes so we can get better at at the ground stuff.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: But the reason we're doing this is because there could be strikes and we want to win in a fight.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: And then as the competitions came, and which I compete in all the time, it starts to move more towards let's do the things that win the competitions.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And you start to pay less attention to is that actually good for a fight though?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm wondering your thoughts on maybe if jujitsu is splitting, that there is a self-defense jujitsu, there is a sport jujitsu, MMA is maybe something in the middle there where it's got some jujitsu.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about this evolution and and how are you what is jujitsu to you?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't think of it as an evolution.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Does the evolution imply uh improvement or is it just change?
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Evolution is change.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Great question.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Let's just think of it as change.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's yeah, I don't think it necessarily implies improvement.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Change.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Change.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like, listen, it jujitsu is jujitsu.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: There's one.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Now, some people practice jujitsu with 100% or 90% or 80% of it focused on street applicability and self-defense.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Some people don't consider that at all.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: But it's still kind of the same jujitsu.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Because, for example, there are some people out there who, let's say, compete in tournaments every month.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: And everything is about how they can win the tournament.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: What they're training can still help them in the real world.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: They have great, like, let's just say they have great balance and positional awareness.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: These things have value.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: But yet they're not thinking about how they might use that stuff in a fight.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: So I think your mindset, right, how you're approaching your training is what matters.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: And there are schools, like I said, that they really prioritize, hey, think about what could happen in the real world.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: And let's walk through those scenarios at different levels of intensity.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: And there are others that we have students that come here sometimes and they say, Yeah, we've been training at another school for nine years, and we've never discussed getting caught in a headlock or somebody punching us from the top of guard in nine years of training.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Which that's okay.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, the tricky part is that sometimes schools around the world they say things like self-defense on the window, on a sticker of a window.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: It says, Well, come learn the martial arts, we'll teach you how to defend yourself.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: But the student starts training three months, six months, a year, four years later, and they never really had that conversation.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: So, because why is someone walking into that jujitsu school?
6:00
SPEAKER_00: In many cases, because of the popularity of jujitsu in the UFC, for example.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: So Hoyce fighting in the UFC was a clear example of the little guy, it was David beating Goliath, right?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Modern day David and Goliath, right?
6:13
SPEAKER_00: Early 90s.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: People saw that and they got inspired and they said, wow, look what he's able to do with his technique and his small, he's not even that big.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: What is he, 178 pounds?
6:24
SPEAKER_00: So that really got people excited and they want that, but then it's easy to become friends with someone at a jujitsu school, whether it's the instructor or other students, and then you're waiting for the day where self-defense might be introduced to you.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: But then it's almost like you get caught up in the fun of the everyday grappling and the connections, the friendships in the building that after four years passes, you're like, oh, I guess it is what it is.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: And you do feel more confident because you are very being very physical.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a very, you know, you're tough.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Confidence, you're tough, boosting activity, but deep down, they don't have answers to some of the most common fight scenarios.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: That's my observation as well.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I so when I was growing up, I was taught this idea called the circle of training, meaning there's a real fight that's in the center of the circle, and we don't know what that could be.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: That could be one person against one person, could be one person against three persons, could be you against the big guy, could be you and your daughter walking on the street against a crazy guy.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, who knows?
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Could be on an airplane, could be on a bus, which is like we don't know what the real fight is.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: But that's the real fight.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: And around the circle are all these things that we can safely train.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: We can't safely train there, or we're going to beat people up.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: We won't have partners, we're gonna get hurt.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So we have this area where we can safely train grappling without strikes and get really good at armbars and chokes.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: We can safely strain train strikes, we can get very good at jab, cross, hook, and kicks.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: We can develop our flexibility, develop our strength, all of these different get some weapon skills, all of these things that we can practice as microcosms safely, safely, safely.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And then hopefully, if we're ever pushed into the middle of the circle, we can draw from that and have what we need.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: And what I think of when I think of like pure sport jujitsu is that's one spot on the circle that is great for developing your armbars or developing your guard passes or developing, but it's not necessarily everything that you need when you are if you're ever pushed into the circle.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of what you're saying.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: You want to remember that we're trained, if you are training for the circle, if you don't think you're ever gonna be in a fight or don't care, and you just want to develop the sport of jujitsu, great.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even the armbar that someone trains in the completely sportive jujitsu world is different than the arm bar that you might use in a street fight.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Because the indicator, what the person is doing to give you the arm bar.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Because in grappling, you and I, I'm trying to pass your guard, my elbows are tucked in, you're fighting my arm out.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Whereas in the real world, someone could be in your guard putting their arm across your throat, trying to strangle you.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: These are behaviors that aren't presented amongst friends.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't try to just grab you by the throat in your guard because I know that my arms are gonna be exposed.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: So the reflex of wow, I'm being strangled, spin for the arm, is one that has to be built.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: The same as the ability to fight someone's arm out and take their arm if you want to compete in a tournament and submit someone.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with that.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: I guess one question I would have is what might be the balance, right?
9:28
SPEAKER_01: So, do you think from your point of view, because I know you've trained law enforcement and you think about these things all the time, do you think that I'm just making this up, 80% sport training where we're not paying attention to that, we're just developing our toughness, we're developing good habits of keeping our arms in.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And maybe 20% of our time we're changing that to be a little bit more scenario-based, maybe, where we're saying, hey, you know what?
9:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually, we're gonna grapple, but I'm gonna try to choke you like a like I don't know jujitsu.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Or I'm gonna try to hold your head like I don't know jujitsu, and we're still gonna get, I'm gonna give you something live, but you'll never get it from me on a normal sport match.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it's a lot to ask of the other training partner.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: So when if you and I are training and I'm trying to get you in headlocks and strangle you unskillfully, I'm we're not, it's up, it's more work for me.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm more exposed, I'm getting caught more, I'm getting tired.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: If you sidemount me and I'm patient and I'm a black belt, versus if I'm behaving very random and bridging and panicking and twisting like somebody would in a street fight, I'm gonna get more tired.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's a big ask of training partners to give the other person that kind of realistic, untrained behavior.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: You get very tired very fast.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's why we like to do positional drills.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, just a control drill, bottom person has to escape.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And for the first 15 seconds, escape unskillfully, just push the person off.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: The next 15 seconds, if you can escape unskillfully, escape using jujitsu.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: So it's a 30-second drill of holding someone down.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: So they get to touch like a variety of different behaviors from someone on the bottom in terms of what to control.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: So listen, it's it's a lot to ask, it's tiring, but I think that the person who is both both students want to just grapple and flow, and that's very fun, that back and forth, that's that language that we speak so well of moving with each other and jujitsu speaking to jujitsu.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: That is very enjoyable, and that's something that you can do a lot of, and it has benefits.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, when you land in positions, how you think about the position, what your first reflex is, is what matters.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, you and I are grappling at 100% jujitsu sport having fun.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: When you side mount me, I want to behave in a way that I would like to behave in the real world.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: So if the moment you side mount me, I start to panic and push you off, that's not smart.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get tired, I'm gonna expose myself to strike and so on.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: But the moment you side mount me, I connect to you, I hold you.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm treating you, even though you're not behaving unskillfully, I'm treating you like someone that might have side mounted me in a street fight.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Now, even if it's only for 10 seconds, I just check in and I stay snug.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, I then I rem I know that you're my friend and that we're grappling, we're having fun.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: So then I can release you, I can drop an arm that might punch me and start working on an escape.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: But the most important reflex is the moment you land somewhere, what's the first thing you're thinking?
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think that most people, when they land in a fight on someone, there is this rush to punch or to submit or to do some damage.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Where in reality, in a real fight, your priority should be what?
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Positional controls.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Everywhere you land, our goal is to slow things down because the fight is chaotic.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: And we want to be the slow, controlled, methodical, patient, technical part of that fight.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's where we win.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: That's where jujitsu wins.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: If you watch old fights back in the day, jujitsu grabs a hold of the person, the whole analogy of an anaconda, taking the person down, controlling them, they wear out, and then they expose themselves and we win.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's whether you land on the bottom or on top, you can have that same anaconda-like approach in a grappling match with friends or in a street fight.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: People will say, Well, there's MMA, and they're either doing grappling and they are striking, and that is true.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think MMA for young athletic people is a great sport if they want to do that.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: It is still a sport though, and the rules of that sport dictate action, right?
13:28
SPEAKER_01: So if you were to take that attitude in an MMA fight, people would say you're a boring fighter, they might stand you up, they want action, and jujitsu by its nature doesn't necessarily, like as you're saying, want action, it wants control.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, MMA is 50% of a real fight.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: It's halfway there.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: But it can't be a full real fight.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: That wouldn't make sense.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: It's half, and now it's a really tough half, but there are other things that in the real world, like you say, what is that for you?
13:59
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Is that two random people attacking you?
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Are you on concrete?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Where are you?
14:04
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
14:05
SPEAKER_00: How trained are you?
14:06
SPEAKER_00: How much time did you have to prepare for your opponent?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: No time.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: They ambushed you.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: So I love MMA for the sport, for the entertainment.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: People are having a blast watching it.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: But it is true that if you think MMA is giving you, preparing you for this, it's not.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's no weapons, so you don't, so when you're not controlling a hand, a hand can produce a weapon, you're guaranteed, you know, one-on-one fight.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: But it's all good.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: It's all another spot to me.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: It's another spot on the circle.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: And even people who are not MMA fighters, nothing stops them from putting on fingerless gloves with your friend and say, let's play, let's go light, but let's add in some strikes.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And what I when I do that with people, exactly to your point, that someone might have trained for years and never thought about, but wait a minute, what is really happening here?
14:51
SPEAKER_01: The moment we put on gloves and I say, I'm just gonna tap you, frequently, my jujitsu sport friends, their game falls apart.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they have no idea.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Because they have not ever thought about having to cover their head or wrap an arm.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: It's just not part of their game.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And it becomes very easy to just kind of take them apart with little tap-tap taps.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And but I do find that once you don't have to spend a lot of time with them till they start developing those games.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't have to be 100% of their training, but it should be, I don't know, once a month or something like that.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: One thing to consider also is it doesn't matter who you are, right?
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Like let's just say you're an eight-year-old or a 78-year-old.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: In jujitsu, people in jiu-jitsu are at every age.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: There's four-year-olds doing jujitsu now, up to 80 plus year olds.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, whether it's sport competitive jujitsu, whether it's MMA, those things, if you want to practice those, those are a short phase of your life.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Could be for some people 15, 20, 25 years, but for most, it's not.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: It's like eight years, seven years, ten years where you might compete in MMA or in jujitsu tournaments.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: But one thing you can do for 70 years, from 70, from seven years old all the way to 77, 80 years old, is jujitsu, the way Eliu Gracie practiced jujitsu.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: It's jujitsu for self-defense.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: It's jujitsu with the mindset of I do what I can, not what I want.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: It's patience, it's timing, it's leverage, it's considering and having the discussions around the real life scenarios that might be presented to you.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: So that you can practice forever.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And people sometimes start doing something, they start becoming very sportive competitors in jiu-jitsu, and that's fun.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: But then when that ends, they might fall off all jujitsu.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: They stop practicing.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Where reality is just because you're whatever age you are, doesn't mean you're 57.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to compete anymore because you hurt your knee twice.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Great.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Keep doing something from 57 all the way to 77 or 87 years old.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: But to do that, you have to have the mindset, you have to have the even the knowledge that that's available to you, where oftentimes you don't because you're stuck in that world that you were competing.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: You don't even realize that there's another way of practicing jujitsu for the rest of your life.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: So this is a topic that I've been talking about on the podcast in recent episodes, like longevity and things like that.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: And part of that is a realization of, and you said it like, what is appropriate for you today?
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, what what is what is that David's body today want to do?
17:31
SPEAKER_01: It is likely not what the 25-year-old David was doing or the 40, but it is hard to adapt to that.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: And especially if you if you most people are not serious competitors, I have been.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: There's ego that you need to set aside to say, you know what, maybe my time has passed.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I can still fight if I have to fight, but I have to find like a new goal for jujitsu, which for me, of course, has just become the fun with my friends and staying in chip and maybe helping other people be good as competitors.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: But I think if what I'm hearing you say is your main point is what jujitsu brings to you and how you do it needs to evolve over time.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: You can only be a fighter fighter for some period of time.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you can always be a fighter, which especially for men, they like that.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm always a fighter.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: But where you choose to fight changes.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: You might fight for, like I said, six years in sport of jujitsu.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Great.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: You're still a fighter.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Are you a fighter?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you are.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Are you competing still?
18:22
SPEAKER_00: I actually am.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: You might stop one day.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I will be.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: When you stop, you're still a fighter, of course.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Right?
18:28
SPEAKER_01: We're all fighters.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, and we set the like the parameters a little different.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So when I stop competing, it'll be just what happens on the mat, and it'll be my joy of training.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to come back to one thing just about the reality of the sport jujitsu versus reality.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: One thing that I always try to do, and I have trained with great, great guys who are much younger and much better than me, which is good.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: I always have tried to do that, always be with people who are better than me.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: There's a saying, try to be the tail of the lion instead of the head of the sheep.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Like you want great people dragging you forward, right?
19:01
SPEAKER_01: But in my jujitsu training, I'm very playful.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: I know that's a thing of yours too.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm always moving my hand here, just trying to move the person like a puppet.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: But what I'm really doing is just reminding myself, I can get that person to do what I want them to do to open up for a strike.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: They don't know that because I'm never throwing any strikes in jiu-jitsu.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: But I'm constantly thinking, now I've got the position, or I'm in, like you said, a side male position, side control, and his head is right open for a knee.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: I will never show it, I will never throw it.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: But I do think once it's in your head, it's better to actually practice it.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: But it is also possible to practice jiu-jitsu with in the back of your mind understanding I could have done this, but I'm not.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: And I am not going to do things.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: I am specifically not going to do a move that I see is available to me because that would be a bad idea on the street.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And I refuse to practice anything that will get me beat up on the street.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I see myself a lot seeing an opening for like, I don't know, diving underneath something or exposing myself.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, no, it would be great in jujitsu, but it's not going to be good on the street.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think that takes a certain amount of knowledge and discipline to actually do that for yourself.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're and you're not overly uh concerned about the outcome of that grappling match.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: To where, like, if you really had to beat that person or escape the position, then you might do something that might compromise getting punched in the face.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: But you're just having fun and you're rolling with friends.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: So there's no reason why you can't just stay where you are for a little longer.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: So talk to me about the value of defense.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Because I've seen your stuff and I know that what you're talking about of being able to survive, of being able to hang out in a situation where you may not be winning, but at least you're not losing.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: I remember my coach Jean-Jacques, that was a big thing for him because of he was a skinny small guy and he didn't have fingers on one hand.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: That he's he would say much of his life in jujitsu, especially through blue belt, was pure defense, defense, defense.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And then he got to the point when he felt so confident in his defense that he had no stress and that opened up his ability to do things because there was no risk, because there's no worst-case scenario because he can defend anything.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on defense first sort of mentality?
21:17
SPEAKER_00: I think everything that we do in jiu-jitsu is serving our defense.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, when we are obviously defending someone's punches, we're managing distance, we're keeping ourselves close to not get punched.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: When someone's trying to twist our arm or get us in a neck crank, we're preventing it, we're defending ourselves.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: These are obviously defensive skills.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: When you're escaping from underneath someone's control, you're defending yourself by escaping from that person's control.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: It's reasonable to say that.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So if you're being held down by someone who outweighs you by 100 pounds and you can get out, that is helping you defend yourself from that threat.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: And if you're controlling someone who weighs 80 pounds more than you, you're on top of them, you're keeping them.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Them underneath you.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: You're defending yourself.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: You're preventing them from being able to get on top of you to then attack you.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: So you're defending yourself.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: And when you armbar someone or you put someone to sleep to neutralize the threat, you're defending yourself.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: So everything in jiu-jitsu is defense.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing but defense in jujitsu.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting way of looking at it.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: But I see what you mean.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes people think they have to be active, like they're fighting.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Fighting.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And of course, the sport wants you to be active.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: You'll be penalized and if you're not active.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: But I feel sometimes like the ability to be inactive and thwart the other guy's action is a victory.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Like certainly for me at my age now, like 64.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Hey, if you didn't make me tap, sorry, man, I won.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: In my mind, like you're I'm 30 years older than you, and nothing happened.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: That's a win for me, right?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: But frequently I do look at, well, I'm in a bad position right now and I can't get out, but guess what?
22:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna let the guy advance, and he's not gonna get me in anything.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: This is to me like a version of victory for me.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: You're defending yourself, successfully defending myself, yeah.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: And why is that position bad?
23:05
SPEAKER_00: You said I'm in a bad position.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: What's a bad position?
23:08
SPEAKER_01: That's that's a really good point.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: But I would have said it's a bad position only because it puts the person in a place where they can finish me, and if they can't finish me, it then one might say, well, then I guess it's not a position.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: That is such an interesting point of view, Hiran.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: That is so interesting.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: I can't think of any bad positions in jiu-jitsu.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: Now I can think of a bad situation that someone's in.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're split control, someone's paying both your arms, they're side mounted and you punching you in the face, you're in a bad situation.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And that position is a place that we want to avoid because they can do damage to us.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: But let's just say side mount, mount, guard, just the positions of jujitsu.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: There is no good and bad.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: If you're under someone's side mount, you're not in a bad place.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: You're in a position where if they isolate your arms, they can do damage.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: But isolating my arms is going to be very difficult because I have skills to keep myself safe from the bottom of side mount.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: And when you make effort to submit me or to strike me, you give me space, therefore, opportunity to escape to the next position.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm in the bottom of guard.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And is bottom guard bad or good?
24:17
SPEAKER_00: Top guard bad or good.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very careful because the thing is this when you label it bad, when you say, oh no, he's got my back, you start to behave differently because you've already labeled it bad.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: So you're already, in my opinion, you're already off on the wrong foot.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: You're telling a story that where you are is somewhere that you don't want to be.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And then you start becoming impatient.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And now the panic kicks in because now you're you can't escape.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: And now you start getting tired, you fatigue because you panicked in the position.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Just jumping in for a second to ask you, the listener here, what do you think of this concept of there being no bad position?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's a helpful way to stay calm or doesn't it resonate with you?
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And this would be true for a bad position in BJJ or in life.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: It is an interesting framing.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Leave a comment on the YouTube video and let me know what you think.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, back to our conversation.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: I've never heard thought of it that way.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Listen, my grandfather, at you know, the years I spent with him when he was 87 years old, 90 years old, I always remember there was like a calmness to him, no matter what position he was in.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: I never felt like he was in a hurry anywhere.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And he's 89 years old and he's patient and he's patient and he's patient.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Now he had good hand awareness, good posture controls.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: He always talked about the things that had to be considered in a fight, but it just nothing was ever a problem wherever you landed.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: And he would remind me, I'm 19, 23 years old, and he and he was always reminding me, like, hey, why are you fighting so hard?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Why are you trying to get out of here?
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Why this rush to advance or escape or to do, just slow down, which it makes sense that an 87-year-old is slowing down a 24-year-old.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Of course, it makes perfect sense.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: And when someone who's 23, 24 can realize the importance or the or not the importance, but be given permission to slow things down, they now have two options.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Because most people who are 23 are just 21, you're kids, you're just all over the place.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: But when you can tap into both slowing things down and the wild 23-year-old, that's a really, really good place to be.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: So you have permission to be both, and you become a serious threat to whoever you're fighting, grappling, sparring with, playing with.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think speed is an attribute that could be used, that could be useful.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Strength is an attribute, flexibility is an attribute.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: But, and we see this with beginners, they fight only using their attributes and then they get tired.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: But if you have position, if you have the kind of awareness that you're talking about, it doesn't mean you can't turn on the gas if you need to.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: If you see an opportunity, you can't use your strength.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: But it certainly means you're going to be using it much more wisely.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: And my grandfather, you know, Elu Gracie, he fought so many people that were so much bigger, heavier, and stronger than him.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And he always really focused on teaching me defense.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, for him, defense was on the bottom, surviving, avoiding being defeated.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: He always talked about it like that.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Even though I'm sure when he armbarred people to finish a fight, he was defending himself.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: He was neutralizing the threat.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: But it was very much the defense that most people think of when they say defense.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: And he did that because he knew that when I'm 19, 21 years old, I am gonna have the natural attributes of speed, flexibility, strength, explosiveness, those are gonna come to me naturally.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: But he knew that this 19-year-old kid, if you don't teach him to be patient, to understand proper body positioning and defensive skills, he might never learn them.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: He might then become a 24-year-old, 29, 35-year-old black belt who relies on his physical attributes to escape inferior positions.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And that works for a period of time.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: But then one day you end up underneath somebody and you can't get out.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: And then when you can't get out, because of your escape, your explosiveness didn't work, what do you say?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: You say, Oh no.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: And saying, Oh no, oh shoot.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Now all of a sudden, the back to the story the panic kicks in and you're done.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: So as the grandfather teaching his grandchildren this level of survival and patience, I think that was his top priority, so that we would have the confidence and the comfort, no matter where we landed.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: A while back, I was visiting a school in North Carolina, I believe, and I taught a class at a I met someone in a street, I went and taught a class at their school, just showed up.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And this kid was there, probably 26 years old, and he said, Hidon, after what you just taught today, I taught some defensive skills from inside the guard.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: He said, I realized I've been training for seven, eight years, purple belt.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: I have never learned defense until today.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Meaning his all of his jujitsu is all of his jujitsu defense relies on his rushing or rushing to escape the guard.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: I see.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: So he was in my guard and he was unable to get out.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: And I did that on purpose.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: I held very strong and he felt panicked and he couldn't escape because he's never learned defense.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: He's only learned break the guard, break the guard, get out now, get out now.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And he's only 20, like I said, 26 years old.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: So it's not a big deal, but it will be one day.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And for him to say, I've never learned defense until today was just once again a reminder to me that not everybody has the luxury of an instructor that's, you know, very much listen, you can do all of this, but let's practice this because one day you might need this.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's what my grandfather brought to me.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: And to so many others, because he taught jujitsu at forever.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: And in his old age, he wanted people to learn the skills that he used against so many formidable opponents.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: No, I think that that's really great, and I think your approach is very unique and very interesting.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, people who don't do martial arts will talk about, oh, I think I might get into martial arts for the mind control.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Like they have this vision, like maybe you sit and you meditate and you develop this calmness in this mind.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: And what you're talking about is the true incarnation of that kind of calmness in the mind in action, in a fight situation.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: You can bring it there.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to mean sitting and meditating.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: And you someone just told me that they got into a little altercation, road rage, and someone cut him off and stopped the car in reverse.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: And he he won't, he's not even a he's a white belt, barely does any jujitsu.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Yeah, I wanted to get out of the car, and I wanted to fight this guy.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's something that is very, in my opinion, very far from the goal.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: The goal is the person backs up and they're there very angry, and you just say, Hey, I'm so sorry.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Even though they cut you off, just apologize.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: But his need to want to get out of the car shows that he doesn't have the defensive skills to keep himself safe.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: There was a huge cortisol spike in that individual because someone reversed and pulled up next to them and flipped them off.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Whereas this happened to me multiple times where there's things in the street, car driving, and I don't feel this feeling of like I have to fight and defend myself.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we want to give students.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And you build that on the mat.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you can practice, for example, being underneath somebody who's a hundred pounds heavier than you and you can stay safe, you're training yourself to remain calm under stressful situations.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: So when someone in the street who, you know, this old guy pulls up next to you, 75-year-old guy yelling at you, how do you get angry?
31:57
SPEAKER_00: The same way I wouldn't get mad at like a four-year-old kid who kicks my foot.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't get mad at now.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: The thing is this, some people say, Yeah, I don't get mad at a 77-year-old or a seven-year-old.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: But what if it's someone who's 39, who's 52, who's their same age?
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Now there's more of a rivalry.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: It's more, they're more of a threat to you.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: But I don't care if you're 7, 27, 47, or 87 years old.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: If you're angry and you're yelling at me, my response is the same.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry for the inconvenience.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: How can I help resolve this?
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm leaving, I'm gonna move my car, I apologize.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: It's always that, but that comes from a deep rooted place in me that I know that I have skills to keep myself safe.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're not feeling panicked.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: No, I think that that's that's very, very true, and I've experienced some of that benefit as well.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna mention one thing when we were talking about the people giving you real street reactions and stuff like that, just to back it up real quick.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to mention that a lot of people who are more advanced don't like training with white belts, and I totally get it because they're crazy and they're gonna elbow you in the face and they're gonna do all this stuff, and that's certainly true.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: I like training with white belts specifically because it reminds me what a regular person is gonna do if they're not trained in jujitsu, and it keeps me honest, you know, it keeps me protecting myself.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Not only white belts, but even some blue belts can still be a little wild, which is fun.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: But I actually wanted to ask you, because we were talking about control, we were talking about slowing things down.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: In researching what you do, I saw Safe Rap, and that's very interesting to me.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe you can tell us what safe wrap is.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: And I just thought that what a beautiful application of jiu-jitsu.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes, safe rap started because the healthcare industry asked for a way of controlling someone without using joint locks, any kind of pain compliance, no chokes, which for jujitsu in the jiu-jitsu world, it's like, what do you mean?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: How do you control someone without so when you say healthcare, we mean like psychological healthcare?
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Healthcare, like the medical world, like the doctors and nurses, they need to control somebody safely.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Safely.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you do that without hurting them?
34:13
SPEAKER_00: It's very important.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: And how do you do that with minimal people?
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Because right now in the healthcare industry, if we go to a hospital, you need seven, nine, twelve people to control someone.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: So then the question is let's apply jujitsu to their question.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: So now we discovered a way of controlling someone with two people.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: So this safe wrap is it's called lateral control.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: It's a two-on-one lateral control system.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: So, how can two people control one person and prevent that person from doing any harm to us, prevent them from getting up and getting away, prevent them from being able to access weapons, right?
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Their arms are controlled.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: So it started in the healthcare industry, but it shifted also over into law enforcement.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: And these are things that law enforcement has to consider.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: For example, law enforcement, healthcare doesn't want to hurt anybody.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Law enforcement wants control, they want their hands not to be, you know, to access the law enforcement doesn't want someone to be on their stomach for too long, right?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Because the pro the pressure when someone's too long pronated can be dangerous.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: So there's these considerations.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: So what Henner likes to explain is that this is the the question is if it's good enough for healthcare, it's usually weak for law enforcement.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Law enforcement is like, ah, it's a healthcare thing.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: And if it's good for law enforcement, what does healthcare say?
35:33
SPEAKER_00: It's too violent.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: It's too weak, it's too violent, too tough.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: But now safe rap is like the blend, where all of a sudden both law enforcement and healthcare are like, wow, this is so effective.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Now it is a two-on-one lateral restraint.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: So it does require two people.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: But in so many cases, whether it's law enforcement or healthcare, two people are available.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: You wait for backup or you call someone else in the healthcare world.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's really amazing.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, this is proprietary, so there is an effort to protect this and take ownership of this.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: So not anybody can be teaching it and modifying it.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: And also so it is done correctly.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: And that people get when you have when it says proprietary the way that it is, we require you to do X amount of hours before you're ready to use the system.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: We require you to do X amount of hours of training before you're gonna teach somebody else.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So this is in the jiu-jitsu world, it's a little bit like, wait, what do you mean?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean it's proprietary?
36:34
SPEAKER_00: How are you owning something like this?
36:36
SPEAKER_00: And the answer is because no one else has ever done it before, and it's happening right now.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: And no one would have ever done this or would have ever stumbled across this.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: It's not if anybody who's grappling one-on-one, and you do any portion of the safe wrap, that's all great because it's not even the safe wrap.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, it has the gift wrap energy to it.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: But it has that's only 10%.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: It has so much more to it.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: From the communication to how, for example, how you handcuff someone in the position.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: So safe rap is really taking off.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know who likes it more, if it's healthcare or law enforcement, but both of them, it basically anywhere, workplace violence.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who deals with people who might need to one day control somebody, keep yourself safe, keep them safe, safe rap is for you.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, so that's the key.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: And I have done law enforcement training and this two-on-one concept, you're right, you know, and we would just very generally say, look, one person go for the legs, one person go for the arms.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: But you've obviously put a lot of thought into, yeah, but what does that mean?
37:38
SPEAKER_01: How to hold the legs, how to hold them.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's really nice.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a beautiful application of jujitsu because when you think about it, if you say, okay, someone in a healthcare system, they're dealing with someone who's psychotic or becoming violent, they don't want to beat them up.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not the person's fault, but you do need to restrain them, right?
37:55
SPEAKER_01: You we don't want to put them in an arm bar, they're not gonna want to pop their arm.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: You don't necessarily want to risk choking them out.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: So you want to take that part of jujitsu that is control without hurting the person and just develop that.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: So I just thought it was beautiful, I love it, and it's extremely effective.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you're a seven-year-old child or if you're a 43-year-old professional athlete, you're someone like a serious threat.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: If you and I had to control somebody, I would not suggest any other way than safe rap.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: I have a friend, John Will, in Australia.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: John is great, and he has taught some systems.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: And I remember him first introducing me to sort of teaching something similar to law enforcement, where okay, one person gets the lower body, one gets, but you have to have agreed like in advance.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Like you need to know you go low, I go high, and what that means.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, I know what you're gonna do, and you know what I'm doing.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm responsible for them not getting your weapon, you're responsible for them not being able to get up.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: So, some sort of training, you can't just assume even if you had two jujitsu guys, having a pre-arranged here's what this person does, here's what that person does, do your job, and then we're gonna be fine.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes, one low and one high has been talked about forever.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Forever.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: But now the strategy of how you go high, how you go low, once they're down, how you keep them on their side, right?
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Never put them on their stomach, never put them on their back.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: That's that's huge.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay, switching gears.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: What is your personal training like these days?
39:22
SPEAKER_01: I know you're busy, you're a businessman, you're running this whole very amazing system.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: For you personally, where's your fun?
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Are you getting on the mat?
39:32
SPEAKER_00: I get a lot of fun.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not as much business as people think.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Henner is very business.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: My brother is like business, 100% killing it.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm very fortunate that I get to spend so much time on the mat teaching jujitsu.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I get to teach as many classes as I want.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably doing like, I don't know, 17, 18 hours of group classes a week.
39:54
unknown: Wow.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Which is very fun, morning and night, pretty much every day, Monday through Friday.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, very grateful to be able to be on the mat, moving my body, always, you know, talking, thinking about jujitsu, connecting with students.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: I get to also, you know, travel wherever I want and teach people jujitsu around the world.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: So you get to meet cool people, see cool places, and do a cool thing.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: It's I'm very fortunate.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Now, in terms of my personal training and growth, my grandfather was someone who didn't really train for fights.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: He just taught all the time.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: So he really kind of shined a light on how you training people is a great way of staying sharp.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And we have so many students that have gotten so good over the years and that are getting better and better every day.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: So I have built-in training partners that I can go very hard with, but I protect at the same time.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, then there's some movements I can do for my body, mobility, a little bit.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't really lift weights more than maybe once every other week or once a week, but I'm very, you know, I just live on the mat.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: In terms of the teaching, it's that you were describing that as fun, right?
41:02
SPEAKER_01: Your fun, is that coming from your rolling?
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Is it coming from your teaching a class?
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Like what is fun for you?
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, here's the thing: some people, I've heard people in my family and outside the family almost feel like, man, teaching can be a little bit like a little monotonous.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Again, the same class and same schedule and early morning or late nights, or kids, or beginners.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: There are little complaints around teaching.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: I have never felt anything but excitement around teaching people.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you're a brown belt or a black belt or you're a white belt, if it's your first class or you're a nine-year-old kid, everybody is fun to teach.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: So and I think part of the reason why I feel that way is because being on the mat for so long, I've had the opportunity and I guess the pleasure of seeing people advance and grow.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: I just watched like a guy came in about two years ago.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: He got his belt the other day.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And he took a little break of six months in between.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: He gets his belt, and he's so happy.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm literally feeling his excitement.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: Give me chills.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Like the excitement that because when he came in, I remember him on day one.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: I was there for his first class.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Here he is now, 18 months later, we're putting a blue belt around his waist.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: And he's ecstatic, and I'm so happy for him.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: So every class along the way, I saw his struggles, I saw his doubts.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: I saw him stop for three or four months in the middle and then come back and get a little injury.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: So to see all this happen, like it's just so cool that I get to be involved in that and feel it with him.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, at the same time, there are people that I invest a lot in, and after 10 months or three weeks, they stop.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even feel hurt or bothered.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Or they might have trained at our school for 10 months and then they go to another school.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel bothered.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: They're doing what's best for them.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's their drive distance or the energy of the school, it's not personal to me.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: They're doing what's best for them, and I want them to do what's best for them all the time.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: So there's a like a detachment, but yet a connection to the individuals that that comes and goes that I just appreciate all of it.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm glad you were here for 10 months.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: I wish you all the best now in your journey as you go somewhere else.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: We talk about teaching and the value of teaching, and most people will say, and I know you will agree this is true, that teaching something allows you to explore it much more deeply.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: You're learning, you're having to maybe put into words things you've never really had to put into words, or you're dealing with problems that you never thought of, and then you have the problem.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: All kinds of great reasons that teaching helps you improve your jujitsu.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: But what I hear you saying.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Is you actually just love teaching because it's helping other people.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Right?
44:04
SPEAKER_01: It's not about, I mean, of course it helps you, but about the value in teaching to help other people.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we grew up our whole lives, like our father always said, sometimes you teach a class and you get paid$300,$500 for could be a private class, could be a seminar for$2,000,$5,000.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you teach a class for free.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: And you give the exact same energy to both.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if you're making money or you're not making money.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you enjoy what you're doing?
44:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you enjoy it, right, eventually you'll make money.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Eventually, people will show up.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: People will step on the map, they're gonna want to learn from you because they're gonna see that you like being where you are, that they're not a burden.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: If they ask a question and you like, yeah.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: People see your body language when they ask questions.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: You might have been asked that question 7,000 times over the last 20 years, but you cannot say anything other than great question.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it's a very common question.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Let me explain it to you.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: And then when you explain it, you literally you infuse them with knowledge because of you, they forever now will understand why you don't do this and you do that.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that's wonderful.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: I think that your passion and your excitement comes through.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: And of course, your father Horian is well known for being one of the greatest teachers of all time, and he takes such a passion in that.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: I interviewed him recently, and he was talking about how he feels the responsibility, like it's his responsibility as the teacher that to impart.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: It's not obviously students need to show up, they should pay attention.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: There's things that you can do as a student.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Try to actually ask you about, um, but he was saying the responsibility is entirely, he feels the responsibility is entirely with him.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: If someone doesn't get it, he didn't explain it right.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah, and and there's no rush to make them get it.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes as an instructor, you might be a little bit frustrated with yourself because you you were very patient, you taught everything, and they still don't get it.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And you think that might be a reflection on you.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it just takes more time.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: So if they're not getting it and the class ends, it says no problem.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: You're doing the move only 40% correct, it's okay.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Before you came in today, you didn't even know the move.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll see you in three days, we'll see you next week.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: And you trust the process.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: And when you give off that energy to the students, they also are not too hard on themselves because the student knows.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: You can they can see that they're not completing the motion, and you say it's absolutely no problem.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see this technique multiple times.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: And on your second, third, fourth, and fifth time, it's gonna make so much more sense.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, is anybody in this class, I'll ask, is it your second time seeing this move?
46:41
SPEAKER_00: People will raise their hand and I'll ask you, I'll ask them, does it feel better?
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Is it more natural?
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Does it make more sense than on your first day?
46:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, it does.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: So now they're helping me reassure the person who it's their first time that it will only get better.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: That's really, really a good way of viewing that.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: People are always trying to, I guess, what is it called?
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Kind of their very self-deprecating thoughts.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: They're always trying to disqualify themselves, judge themselves.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: I can't do this.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm not good enough, I'm strong enough, I'm not, I'm not old enough, I'm not young enough, all these things.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: So we have to be very careful as instructors how we speak to them becomes how they speak to themselves.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: We're teaching them how to speak to themselves differently.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: That's really beautiful.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: Most people in jujitsu become teachers because they got their black belt and they're a good fighter and whatever, and they want to make money.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and they want to do this thing that they love for a living, and that can lead to what you said, where that's kind of a bummer.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: I have to teach the beginners, but that's what I have to do to have my class so that I can train with my buddies, what they're doing.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: But very few, I believe, people spend time really thinking about how to teach.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: How what are the qualities of a good teacher?
47:58
SPEAKER_01: Not just saying this is what I do, or I like to do this, I like to do that, but what do they need at this time?
48:04
SPEAKER_00: And they forget what it's like to be a white belt.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: You've been training for 19 years, and now you want to run a school, like you said, you want to hang out with your buddies.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: But you when how you speak to that white belt is through the lenses, through the lens of a black belt, which you have to really put yourself in their shoes.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's their fourth class, it's their 10th class.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna be here if you don't quickly adjust how you speak to them.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: Now you might be thinking, oh, my coach spoke to me.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: It was very tough with me.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: My coach didn't give me all this slack.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: But then you have to ask the question how many of your training partners along the way over the 10, 15 years of you getting your black belt disappeared?
48:46
SPEAKER_00: And the answer is 99%.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: You made it through because you're a special case and you put up with all the grind that your coach gave you.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: But this is a new age, and people don't want schools with 72 students, with 104 students.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: People want 300, 400 students.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: There's no reason why you shouldn't have 400 students, 350 students.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: But that requires you to put in work as to how you teach, how you run the business, all there's so many different parts of what you have to offer to the student.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: Just jumping in for a second to ask you, the listener, if you train BJJ, what has your experience been with instructors?
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Did you find a great instructor or school right off the bat, or did you have to go through effort to find the instructor who resonated best with what you were looking for?
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Leave me a comment on the YouTube video and let me know.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, back to our conversation.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anybody can teach a great athlete a natural, can bring them along and make them good, but not anybody, and I think instructors should view it as a task, can you teach the person who is having a problem learning, who is not coordinated, or who has fear?
49:56
SPEAKER_01: And the truth is that's the person who needs jiu-jitsu.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what it's for.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what we grew up hearing our whole lives.
50:01
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter who you are, jujitsu can help you, it can help you raise your potential, can help you just enhance anybody.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: You're already an amazing person, but now you'll be able to do even more because of the skills of jujitsu.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: So, from the point of view of a student, do you have any thoughts and advice to our listeners, who many of whom are jujitsu students, of what they can do as from the student side, right?
50:29
SPEAKER_01: To be a better receiver.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Like my again, I mentioned John Will.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: He talks about the teacher is the pitcher, the student is the catcher.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's nice when they're both really good.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: So how can the student make themselves a better catcher?
50:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now this is a tricky question because you can kind of only do what the instructor, it affects you.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: If the instructor is speaking and coaching in a certain way, the student is kind of forced to behave in a certain way.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying, for example, the student can ask a lot of questions.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: You're asking very superficial what the student can do.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: What I'm thinking the student can do is it might it's a little bit deeper.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: For example, the student can give themselves permission when they're, let's just say they're a new blue belt, when they're sparring, give themselves permission to land in inferior positions all the time.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Leave their arm out a little bit, 30%, or hang out on the bottom of side mount.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: Some instructors might say things like, hey, hurry up, you gotta pass the guard.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Hey, hurry up, escape the side mount.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Hey, tuck your elbows in, don't leave your arm out.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: So when the instructor doesn't understand that you're out there exploring, studying the positions, they're simply thinking, don't lose.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: You're making a mistake.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Escape the bad position.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: And for example, if you're controlling someone, don't let them escape.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: I would say once you control someone for 30 seconds, let them escape.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Change positions.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: Once they've tried to escape for 20, 30 seconds, they're not gonna get out.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Let them out, continue the flow.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: But not all instructors subscribe to that, that way of training.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: So you see how, now that's kind of at a blue belt level, purple belt level.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And then I would say things like as a student, only go for one submission for three months, six months.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: You only catch arm bars.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: Someone gives you their back, you don't choke them, you go for their arm from the back, or whatever it may be.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: So my dad would do this with us.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: He would say only rear-naked chokes, only like foot locks, leg locks.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: So these are different depending on your where you are in your journey.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're a new white belt, I would say don't try too hard.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Don't think about the technique steps too much, the details.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe have watch stuff online, learn from the instructor.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: Do your best to get in information, but don't be overly concerned because as a new white belt, it's easy to feel what?
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, ah, I'm not getting it.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: So I want you to kind of have a little more lighthearted approach to like, you know, you're not getting it, don't worry.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Trust the process.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: Trust that you will eventually get it.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Trust that most people who stop jujitsu, it's because they told themselves, it's not landing.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm 49 years old, I'm 53 years old, and I just I can't figure it out.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm not getting good enough fast enough.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about getting good enough fast enough.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Don't be good.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: Be bad for a long time.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Be basic.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: Don't understand it.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: Struggle.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy it.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Because eventually you're gonna get good so long as you stick with it.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Super fantastic advice.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: And you do have to love the path, and hopefully, you have an instructor that's not putting so much pressure on you if you're not loving the path.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: I try to remind people too.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Usually they start at any martial arts school, but a jiu-jitsu school as well, just because it was the close one to them.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: Or they had a friend going there.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: There may be another teacher that's better for them in their area.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: There may be another school that's maybe it's an extra 20-minute drive, but you know what?
54:04
SPEAKER_01: Check that out too, because maybe that's where you want to be.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: What you just said about they picked that school because it's close to them, it makes you think about the whole loyalty thing.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Right?
54:13
SPEAKER_00: For people, some not so much today, but there was a time where like we're so loyal to so and so, and like our he's our master, and they would be like a little bit against another school.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, you're only loyal to them because that's your neighborhood.
54:29
unknown: Right.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: And even if you think about it on a worldly scale, like America, or like even that watching the World Cup right now, Brazil, like you were just you were born there.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: There's just it's a little too much for me.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, I love the Brazil team, but I also love that Norway beat Brazil.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: How cool is that that Norway gets to win, gets to beat Brazil?
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do they feel in that day?
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Like their country, I'm happy for them.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: So take it easy on this.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't be too attached to your country or your school or your family name.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Even the Gracie family name, like, I'm a Gracie, don't badmouth the Gracie's.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: No, okay, I'm I am born in the Gracie family.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: But if you badmouth the Gracie's, it's okay.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: You must be having a bad day.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about the Gracie family name because that's very interesting.
55:13
SPEAKER_01: That's a a huge weight to carry.
55:15
SPEAKER_01: You've got this family, this fighting fairy, uh, fighting family, you've got Helios, his brother Carlos, what hoisted, your father, bringing the whole UFC.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: That's not a lot of could be a lot of pressure for somebody.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: And you're like carrying that on your shoulders.
55:28
SPEAKER_01: It also I think could be a positive thing.
55:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, how does that name, how does that responsibility land on you?
55:35
SPEAKER_01: Is it a stress?
55:36
SPEAKER_01: Is it a responsibility?
55:37
SPEAKER_01: Is it a thing that helps you, pulls you back?
55:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like what are the expectations of the family to me?
55:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I always grew up feeling like the only expectation that was kind of forced on me was to teach people jujitsu, which is so easy to do and so enjoyable.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like they really set me up for success because all you gotta do to be amazing and to be loved is you teach jujitsu and be good at it.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: Great, no problem.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, was there side pressures and voices and energy to compete in MMA?
56:15
SPEAKER_00: A little bit, a little bit, but not too much for my grandfather and my father.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: And make healthy choices, be a good person, have integrity, you know what I mean?
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Be respectful to people, don't smoke and drink.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: So, because you're I'm a representative of the Gracie family, which does give off this image of a healthy lifestyle, respect, you know, there's a loyalty, there's discipline.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: These are things that people really value and they think of when they think of the martial arts.
56:45
SPEAKER_00: Give to help your fellow human beings.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to help everybody I cross paths with all the time.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: We're always here to help people in our community and around the world.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very fortunate that the family kind of gave me these skills, and I'm just so set up to keep sharing and keep giving to the world.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
57:05
SPEAKER_00: So there's not too much pressure on me.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: Good.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: It's an amazing legacy, right?
57:10
SPEAKER_01: And but legacy can also imply, well, it's from the past, but it's not at all that way.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: What I see you doing here at Gracie University with your projecting out into all the ways that you touch people is the most amazing things to happen and the changes that can that jujitsu and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu can do, maybe well, in the future.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, it's 100%.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: It's only doing more, it's only exploding, it's only getting bigger.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: And you're right that the the family has I've given such an amazing gift.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: That's the way I look at it.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm just too fortunate.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: So my kids, I have young kids now, and I look at them, and I'm just like, I don't want them to do anything other than what I do.
57:52
SPEAKER_00: I have two daughters.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: I would love them to teach jujitsu.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: Now it's not uncommon that whether you're a doctor, you're an attorney, you're an actor, you don't really want your kid to do what you do.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: I've heard that a lot from those different fields of work.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: The last thing I want is my kid to be an actor from an actor student.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: But I would love my kids to teach jujitsu.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: Because it's you're giving back to the world.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: You're literally healing the world when you teach jujitsu, especially the way that we teach it.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: We grew up hearing my grandfather and my father say how our position as jiu-jitsu instructors that are teaching people the lifestyle, the self-defense, the do what I can, not what I want, the patient technical jujitsu is just amazing.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: So, my young daughters, like if they grow up and they're 21 years old and they're 23 and they're teaching jujitsu, that now let's put it this way they're gonna teach jujitsu no matter what.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Now the question is, do they teach jujitsu and are they doctors?
58:53
SPEAKER_00: Or are they veterinarians?
58:54
SPEAKER_00: I hope they only teach jujitsu, but the truth is you can't control your kids that much, and they might do other things as well.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, so in your growing up, did your dad view that with you?
59:05
SPEAKER_01: Did he really expect and want you to grow up and teach jujitsu?
59:08
SPEAKER_01: And was that always clear to you that's what you were doing, or did you rebel at all?
59:11
SPEAKER_00: No, here's the thing is that when I was growing up, I was, let's say I'm 13, 14 years old.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: I started teaching jujitsu at that young age.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: And I started being rewarded for teaching, whether I made five bucks for 30 minutes at that young age.
59:25
SPEAKER_00: And also, I was when I was 13 years old, the UFC started happening.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: So the explosion of the UFC and the timing of my age really made a difference.
59:37
SPEAKER_00: Because if I was 27 at the explosion of the UFC, I might not have stuck around, I might not have not done jujitsu as much through the teenage years, 17, 19.
59:48
SPEAKER_00: But because of the explosion of the UFC, doing jiu-jitsu was cool.
59:51
SPEAKER_00: Being part of the Gracie family was cool.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: And I was at the UFC and I I walked out in the train with Hoyce at UFC 2, 3, 4.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: So being around those things really helped keep me on the path because I saw the respect and the admiration that they got from so many people that the 13, 14-year-old me wanted that.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: So it helped keep me around the mat.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: And then once you hit 17, 19, 20, 24, now you're like, you're so good at jujitsu, you might as well teach it.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: You're making money, you're able to, like I said, travel the world, meet cool people, and live a good life.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: So you just stay on board.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_00: There are many people who in the Gracie family that are not doing jujitsu as much as I am.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's not because they don't love it, it's because the timing, where they were when they were.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: I had an 87-year-old grandfather when I was a teenager who was guiding me, teaching me these valuable skills.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: So everything really aligned for myself.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: And my brother Henner is very close to me as well in terms of age.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_00: So we kind of just always stuck together and we have a great partnership because of our age, is probably the main reason.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting insight.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, your daughters are not gonna go through, they're gonna have a different experience.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: Completely different, and they're women, so who knows what they'll end up doing.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: But now is the time of women, though.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so I have two.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: This is like 2026.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: If you have women, you're winning.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: If you have sons, I don't know.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: Just kidding.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: Tanner has two sons or amazing sons, and it will be important as well.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: But the point is that it is a time now of like women are taking over the world.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: So I'm more than happy that I have these two daughters because they're gonna be forces.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's always women being able to defend themselves, is always sadly, it's always gonna be important.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: And the fact that if your daughters can be strong, it's only even if they do decide to become doctors or veterinarians, the jiu-jitsu is only gonna help them.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_01: Which speaks a little bit to one thing I'd like to talk about before just before we wrap up, is the jiu-jitsu lessons that take that go off the mat, right?
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: So we've talked a little bit about the fight situation.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_01: You're in the car, the person pulls you over, you're calm, you don't have anything to prove, you're centered, you don't have to get involved with that person.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I cut you off or whatever.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_01: Are there other ways in which you see jujitsu principles manifesting off the mat in people's lives?
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, jujitsu principles are nature's principles.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_00: So, like what's a jiu-jitsu principle, for example, is it timing?
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: But that's way before jujitsu, right?
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: People understood the importance of the right time and timing something way before.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: So everything is jujitsu because jujitsu is nature, it's just it's natural in so many ways.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: So the answer is absolutely.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: I can watch, for example, someone doing any sport, any activity, doing anything, whether it's someone who's building a house, a construction site, and I can see how they're working so efficiently on the construction site.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wow, that's jujitsu.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, someone, a doctor, how a doctor is a dentist with my child, how they work with my child, how they speak to them, and how they time what they do with their teeth on the dentist bed, and how they it's almost like they're disguising and they're there's a little bit of like, hey, and misdirection.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: Correct, misdirection principle with the children, you know, on the dentist's office, but still being honest and being safe.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's tough to say because jujitsu is being done everywhere, and when you practice jujitsu in a school, you get exposed to these principles and you start to learn these things, and then you actually look at the world differently.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: You're like, wow, look, it's everywhere.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: We haven't talked about this, but I created a very successful nonprofit that helps animals, Humane America Animal Foundation.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: And I look at lots of our successes and things that I've done, whether it's negotiations or just where I felt like my jujitsu was right with me.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't push, understand.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's a lot been about like what you said about it's not what I want to necessarily happen.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: Understand as I would in jiu-jitsu.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: What are you trying to do?
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: Because I rather than me forcing what I want to do, if I understand what you're trying to do, I can make that work out the way I like.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: And to me, that might mean I beat you if there's a competitive thing, but it also may be we create a partnership.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: If I understand what you're trying to do, whether you're a company or someone, and I can help guide you in that direction to something where I also want, maybe it's a win-win for both of us.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: So jujitsu for me has been just hugely uh helpful.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_00: Creating as many win-win scenarios as possible.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: That is a for sure principle, yes.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, and you get that in jiu-jitsu, there's no winner or loser on the mat, obviously.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_01: We're all getting better, we're all training, we're all supporting each other, we're all on the team.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: That's too.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: Listen, they say that if everybody carried a gun, like if everybody in the world had guns, would there be less or more gun violence?
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: Would there be more or less violence in the world?
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: But I tend to fear a little more towards there would be less violence.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: And if everybody knew how to fight, if everybody knew jujitsu, if everybody had these skills, I think there would be less violence in the world.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: There would be more ability to sit and communicate and be patient and work towards a resolve than this.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Jiu-jitsu teaches if it if there's one thing teaches you more than anything, it's slow down, step back, don't rush to blah, to blurt something out, to answer, to explode, to react.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_00: Respond.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Take a moment, take a breath, and then respond accordingly.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: That is a huge principle in jiu-jitsu.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_00: Just gather your thoughts before you go.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_00: And think about if everybody had to pause for 10 seconds or 30 seconds before responding to anybody who has ever offended them.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_00: Most of us don't.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: We're offended and we immediately we respond.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_00: It could be a face, could be a body language, right?
1:06:05
SPEAKER_00: Could be words.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_00: Could be physical.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying, wait a minute, 60 seconds before you respond.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_00: Just think about, just say what they said to you in your head two or three times.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: Maybe try to assume positive intent.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_00: They're going through something, they don't understand what you're going through.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: Give it a moment and then respond later.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_00: And it would be that alone would calm things down.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_01: No, I think that's very true.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_01: And it just that little pause and not being panicked and not feeling threatened allows you to just keep perspective and not lose your perspective, not get that tunnel vision.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: We're in a reactive world.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_00: I have young kids right now.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to teach my young kids, guys, stop.
1:06:48
unknown: Stop.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_00: Let's just sit here.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_00: Pause.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: I think that's beautiful.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: The last thing I want to ask you about is ego, right?
1:06:57
SPEAKER_01: Ego, yeah, I know.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_01: Ego is a big thing.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, I talk about ego a lot.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: I think about ego a lot.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_01: I do a every three months, I do what I call my mission days.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: I take myself to the mountains and I do a personal retreat.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: I have a manifesto I wrote for myself, largely around how is my health going, how am I in the world, and also how can I help?
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: My cause is animals, animal welfare.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: So how can I help animals?
1:07:20
SPEAKER_01: But very much in that is set your ego aside, don't be attached to outcomes because ego blocks you in all these different ways.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, having an ego gets you up in the morning, can be a good thing.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_01: It's you want to achieve, but what are your thoughts on ego?
1:07:33
SPEAKER_01: What does that bring up for you?
1:07:35
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love the book A New Earth by Eckhart Toll.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_00: So Eckhart Toll A New Earth talks about the ego.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_00: And it talks about like I think the eye, like the separation, right?
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of separation in the world.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_00: So there's us and there's them.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's probably like at the core, when I listen to that book, that is kind of where everything started for me.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: This is probably 15 years ago, in terms of like just shifting my understanding and my care and my compassion and my love for people, but also my ability to slow things down is because, like again, I've I've never been disrespected in my life.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_00: No one has ever disrespected me because I don't see that person, they're not attacking me.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: You don't receive it as disrespect.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: They're just showing me where they are.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't receive it as disrespect because I'm in a good place.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_00: I can pay my mortgage, I have a roof over my head, I have food.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: So my life is good.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_00: But it's very easy to where if you're struggling, it could be your health, could be financially, that when someone throws disrespect in your direction, you grab that and you run with it.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_00: How dare you speak to me like that?
1:09:10
SPEAKER_00: You take it very personally, you get very hurt.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_00: And so I understand why people get so wound up and bothered by things, but it I don't feel ever.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: And there have been people that have said and done things that other people have been like, you know, I can't believe they just did that or said that, like, or they betrayed you like that, left your school like that, stole from you like that.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: A lot of things, but deep down, the feeling, even though I might be disappointed, like, oh man, I lost that relative or that friend or that person, this did that.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: Deep down, I still care about that person, and I won't be able to help them fight whatever they're fighting and get past whatever they need to get past to make it to where they wouldn't do something like that.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_00: But like my heart is still with them.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: I've had countless friends, I would, you know, five, ten, fifteen friends over the years that I can't hang out with at all.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: But I really care about them.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_00: Like they're amazing people, and I care about them.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: Now they have made decisions that I don't agree with, but deep down they're still human beings and they made mistakes.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: This is like a prison, a person who's in prison.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: There are people who go to prison for doing really bad things, but they're still amazing people, they're still human beings, right?
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: But they just made a bad choice, and now we have to keep you out of society, and now you're in prison for the rest of your life.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_00: But when I see you, I'm not angry because of what you did.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, if they did something to my family, it might bring up big feelings.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_00: But there has to be Eckhart Toll talks about like immediate forgiveness.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_00: You forgive someone before they even harm you.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: They're already forgiven.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: And your ability to do that, it just rests in you.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this concept that you started with about the separation.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm right with you on that.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_01: I feel even it with in my work with animals and humane treatment of animals, I feel like because whenever we say it could be our country, my family, and there are differences.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I care about my family, obviously, maybe more than a stranger, but I still care about the stranger.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_01: I care about the stranger human more than I care about the a dog, but I still care about the dog.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even know if you care about them more.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: You're just more identified with them.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_00: There's an identification because it's we think it's your family.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_00: You identify.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_00: You care.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: I would say I care equally for a stranger's family and my family.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_00: It's go it goes beyond care.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't just care for you.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_00: You are me because you're my daughter.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_00: You're my family.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_01: So if we can break that down, we talk in animal welfare, we talk about a circle of compassion and expanding that.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: Everybody, most people have it for their family.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_01: Some people have it for their family and their pets.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_01: Some people you're talking about having it for people who've done you wrong.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: Why not have it for everybody and everything to understand we're all breathing the same air?
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: We're all in this together.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: There may be times when we're in conflict where there's some limited resource, and I can't split it either.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_01: I get the job or you get the job.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: But in general, we are all in it together.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: Everybody on this planet, everybody over time has the same.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_01: And I include in that not just people, but every living species just wants to survive.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: And if you can have that kind of breakdown, what I call the illusion of separateness, which I think is what Cartol is talking about, it doesn't mean there's not going to be a frustrating experience.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean you're not gonna have to compete with someone or get maybe even sometimes get upset with someone unless you've really embodied this.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_01: But it's just gonna dial it all down.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_01: We're all in this together.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_00: But going back to what I said earlier, slow things down, right?
1:12:53
SPEAKER_00: Calm things down.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_00: It goes back to that.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, listen, people's so much happening in the world.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: There are so many things in the media that are just constantly hitting us from all sides.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_00: And they're, I feel like there's almost like an energy to keep us distracted.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, they're set up to upset us, so we'll click.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_00: So there's so much happening in the world that people get attached and they get these big feelings towards things, and you can't do this, and these policies, there's so much frustration and anger and disappointment with things that are happening that when your fellow human does something that can be a little disrespectful, it hits you like a ton of bricks.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to how it's so important to take care of yourself.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_00: You taking every three months, taking a week, you do five days.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, three, three.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: It's actually four days.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_00: Four days.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, four days.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: You doing that is amazing.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_00: That is like a genius idea because you get to recenter yourself.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_00: And you come back a better person after those three days.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_00: You're taking time to like heal in nature.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_00: If everybody, but people can't do that though.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_00: Some people don't have the luxury to do that.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a genius thing, though.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_00: But you could take six hours to go sit somewhere at a park for six hours, yeah, take a nap, read a book, write.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_00: Just unplug a little bit.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has the ability to do something like that to unplug and like I said, recenter yourself.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_00: Genius.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, very smart.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna start doing that maybe every six months.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, that's it.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_01: You gotta get into the habit.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: I it's the first time I actually it came to me.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_01: I was in Hawaii on a trip, in the kind I was with a girlfriend that was we were having some problems, so I just needed some space.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_01: And I ended up taking a hike up in the mountains, and I felt like all this, I don't know, wisdom was coming for me.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't, I don't do drugs, whatever it was, but I started writing it down, this whole little life manifesto.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: And right on that day, it said every three months, you gotta set everything aside, turn everything off, silence the outside noise, go and reread this thing that you're reading.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't do it for a year, and then I did it once, I did it six months, but then once I realized the benefit of it, I actually now plan it out.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: I schedule it on ahead and I go out to a hot springs where there's hot springs.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's yeah, I but there's no cell phone, so I'm on my own.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't talk to anybody.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's you're always disconnected from technology.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_01: I disconnect from the tech.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_01: I I do have if I want to type, because if I have ideas, I might want to type notes, yeah.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not receiving any inputs.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm if someone says hello to me, I'll say hello, but I'm not doing that.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to a Four Seasons resort.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_01: Up I no, just quiet little nature hot springs, bring your own food up there.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_01: They have a little kitchen.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, you've been super generous with your time.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_01: Love your energy.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_01: I hope that now we'll get a chance to spend a little more time together.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_01: On the map.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would love that on that.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_01: I would you'd be the most fun person in the world.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_00: The most boring, because I just let everything happen to me.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_01: I you'll just beat me up.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_01: No, that's only if you let me.
1:15:52
SPEAKER_01: No, but I do for a long time now, just because of my various joint things, I love to play, just let it roll.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_01: I have two modes.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_01: My normal mode is let everything roll.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_01: And if someone really starts to threaten me, I go into old school hunker down because that's what I know.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_01: It's just pressure, pressure, pressure.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_01: But I love training, and yes, we should definitely hop on the mat.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_01: But thank you for your.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, brother.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for all you're doing.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_01: You're the man.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed my talk with Hieron Gracie.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_01: You can find links to him and everything we discussed in the show notes.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions for me about this discussion or any past show or anything at all that you'd like me to talk about or respond to on a coming show, leave a comment or ping me on Instagram at AgelessWarrior Lab.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_01: Thanks to my team, Robbie, Phil, Kyle, Angela, David, and to Ryan Peach Turner, my producer and chief editor, for your help.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_01: And thanks also to the show's sponsors and supporters.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_01: And you can see them on our supporters page at AgelessWarrior Lab.com.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_01: I'll be back next week with more lessons from the lab.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_01: And until then, keep developing your strength, your wisdom, and go out and do good in the world.