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How To Fuel Your Training And Recover Like An Athlete · Total Barnage

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Total Barnage.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am leading the podcast and I'm joined with Charles Xavier himself.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: How you doing, Charlie?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing really well, guy.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing spectacular today, actually.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very relaxed and chilled, you know.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I am.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've had some experiences this past week and uh some experiences.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've recovered from them and I've come out the side, other side.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've come out the side, actually.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't come through the top or the bottom.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I came straight through the back.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here and I'm alive.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're talking about recovery and rest.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And fueling.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And fueling.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And how to, you know, optimise our workouts and optimise our life.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, who doesn't want to optimize everything?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thing is, right, there's a whole trend about the optimization trend is really um is live and it's here and it's everywhere, and you can go and get all of the techniques to optimise your your training, your recovery, your sleep, your nutrition, your mindset, the rest of it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like if you're in those spheres already, then you could probably do with just dialing it back and chilling out.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh some people optimize the wrong things, or they try and optimize one thing and everything else falls out.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's try and get like yeah, a little bit good at everything.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now then we're making progress.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna say then, and but then there are the other side of people who might be thinking, what on earth is recovery?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: How does it differ to rest?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: How should I be fueling before a session?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Should I be doing anything during?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: How should I fuel after?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if I've only got a certain amount of time each day or each week, which ones are really going to make the most difference in terms of in terms of recovery?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why, you know, we're not adding to the optimization trend, but we're just trying to keep it, like you say, keep it simple and uh yeah, not go too not go too crazy on it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's actually kind of really relevant for me right now.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of training up for this comp.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I got, I'm about nine, sorry, eight weeks out now.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the the the big the the f the biggest problem I face at the moment is exhaustion in my work day because the only time I can effectively train is generally the the best time of the day for me to train is between 11 and 3 o'clock because I can still caffeinate, I can be fueled correctly, and I don't like training late at night because I overstimulate myself before I go to sleep and I can't get to sleep all right.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the best time of day for me to train.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: The problem I face is I work 6 a.m.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: through to about 12, and then again I'll probably work from 3 through to about 8 at night.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a weird work schedule, and sometimes it could be later, sometimes it could be earlier, and I have this gap in the middle of the day, which is my training block.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um kind of getting fueling right because if I have a really, really hard session where I'm going out and like maxing out deadlifts, squats, or doing interval runs, intense metcons, um, this absolutely saps me of energy.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been trying to get my fueling perfect for like my pre-workout fuel, but I'm now looking into starting some intra-workout carbs to offset that glycogen dump after uh and that real slump and trying to kind of get back into a good mindset or an energized mindset before I um before I start uh work again, otherwise I just literally can't focus at all.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what do you what do you mean by fueling?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is a an idea when you say fuel, people might think immediately maybe carb gels or some sort of fuel, yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, maybe let's hope not.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh so yeah, carbohydrates, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we we we kind of got like energy systems in my body, we got aerobic, anaerobic, anaerobic can be broken up into kind of creatine phosphate, ATP, and glycemic, and and glycogen is heavily used in kind of like intense exercise, and those stores deplete.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So our bodies are really good at storing carbohydrate as glycogen, that's transition and it's stored in the muscles.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: When we do intense exercise, especially lifting weights or running, you know, intense cardio sessions, these glycogen stores deplete.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we need carbohydrates back in our body to replenish these stores.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So many of you have probably done some exercise over the years, whether it's sport or a workout, and afterwards you could leave it and you think, God, I zapped zapped, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can't focus, you can't even think.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just because your glycogen's right down.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if we can get our fueling correct pre- and post-workout, and even we could get into intra workouts, it's not as important for everyone, but if you're having longer sessions, it's a good idea, you know.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Math and runners will very much do this with gels, etc.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say, how long is long for you?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it well, i I think you can focus on two things.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can look at the accumulated volume um of the session, but you even for me, for instance, I'm doing these like hour, hour ten sessions, but because I have to fit it all in such a short period of time, the intensity is so high throughout that, you know, you know, I'm burning maybe six, seven, eight hundred calories in that session.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I need to get calories in, and and and it takes a certain amount of time to for that carbohydrate to be processed post-workout, gets digested effectively and stored as glycogen.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: This could take one to two hours after the session where you have this dump of energy you can't focus.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So this is where pre-workout meals and post-workout meals become more important.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And post-workout, yes, you need protein, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Protein's really important to rebuild back those, you know, the muscle fibers that you have broken down in the session.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: But also just as important to make sure that your energy's regulated for the rest of the day is getting those glycogen stores back up because you know, it's all good and well you going to the gym, doing a workout, and thinking, yeah, I'm on top of it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna lose some body fat, and I'm going to the gym and exercising.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then if you have a slump of energy for three to four hours after, all of a sudden, all those little movements you're making, oh, I can't be bothered to go upstairs, or you know, I'm gonna hold that poo in because I can't be bothered to walk to the toilet again with an extreme.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on a second.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna sit on the sofa and do nothing.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it gets it gets like that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: But all these micro movements that you make that they they get eliminated.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference of taking, you know, on board 200 grams of uh 200 calories to 300 calories of carbohydrates post-meal and get you functioning normally again, walking around, making movements, being able to get back to work, the faster you can get back to that state of normality is actually your body's gonna be burning more energy again.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, where people make the mistake is they absolutely just take their calories right down and they they do the workouts, they're sat for energy, and then they're actually accumulatively throughout the day, might actually be not be getting the greatest amount of not only recovery but energy expenditure done after.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that that that's more kind of fat burning purposes.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that there's certainly many aspects that you need to kind of focus on when kind of fueling for workouts.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and many of you guys here listening today, you might think, oh, I'm not an athlete, but these energy dumps are something you need to kind of factor in.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: You might be having, you know, you you do your workout of an evening, you're going back to some young kids who are energetic.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to feel slumped and low on energy.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You might even have some more paperwork to do in the evening or whatever it might be.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just gonna try and give you the information you need to be able to offset that dump um to make sure that you are optimized.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or at least, or at least you're not um putting yourself in a position where you're gonna undo your progress because you're so hungry and then reach for the easily cravable foods because you haven't fueled correctly.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is especially looking at a calorie deficit, if you are trying to lose weight, lose body fat, but you're also trying to train at a high level, you'll have so much kind of much better results focusing on fueling properly and understanding what you need for your workout rather than underfueling and maybe not having as much motivation, not feeling as energized for the workout itself.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you full fuel well before and you feel good during, you're gonna push harder, you're gonna get better results, and then you're also not gonna succumb to all of the cravings through those those low motivation, you know, those motivation dips when you just don't have enough in your for your brain to enact the willpower to resist certain things.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I mean, how many times have I come up here after hard work and wanted to have a cookie?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie, you tell me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's as many times as there is a cookie here.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, because your brain's like fast release um simple carbohydrates.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want it quickly into my body.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but having a meal prepped post-workout with perhaps some more healthy options is a good idea.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what carbohydrates are going to enter your body the fastest?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: The sugary, more simple ones.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the truth.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh having the more simple the carbohydrate, the faster it gets into your system, and that's why your body will be craving those foods because it it is the fastest release of energy and it will get those glycosin stores replenished as quickly as you can uh as as possible.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I guess the the simple formula, if you're doing so, if you're not training for over an hour and you can fuel adequately before, you probably don't need to fuel during the workout.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most of the listeners today, unless you're prepping for a marathon or perhaps a high rox wear or a CrossFit comp, intra workout is not gonna be so relevant.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: For those who are just training to stay healthy, stay fit, um, maybe lose a little bit of body fat, you know, the what you want to focus on is one to two hours beforehand, you are getting about maybe half a gram of carbohydrate per kilo of body weight to a gram, depending on how intense that session's gonna be.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if you were someone who works out in the morning, try and take in some carbs beforehand, or the other opportunity is to have more carbohydrates the evening before at dinner.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Have an extra portion of rice or potatoes or pasta or whatever whatever carbohydrate you were source you were gonna have with that meal.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um because is the that that glycogen is not gonna magically disappear overnight, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And people struggle eating in the morning, just just eat a bit more at night to kind of think okay, and then you have your breakfast, which might be post-workout, some carbs, but then also plenty of protein to kind of help that recovery process.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's the difference between what's an example of a uh fast release carbs and a slow release carbs when people talk about the two?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, so you you your fastest release would just be granulated sugar or honey or maple syrup.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh pure sugar, the pure purest sugary form.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the more complex the carbohydrate, generally the more fibrous it becomes, and the slower release it is.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So think for slower release um carbohydrates.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we could look at you know vegetables.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's some sugars and vegetables, but they're very fibrous and they're slower to release in energy, so they're more satiating, they keep you more full for longer.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: A great fat loss and weight maintenance food, vegetables are.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But also, what we can look at is fruit because it's got a lot of fructose in it, natural sugars.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there's more fibre in there, so like bananas, I mean, one of the best pre-workout snacks, the perfect portion size.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Having one or two bananas before you work out, brilliant.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like to have dates before they work out.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um even just having a you know a slice of uh you know, sourdough with some honey on it, like just some carbohydrates with something sugary on there where it's fast release, you can have that, you know, an hour before you train, half an hour before you train, get down to the gym, you're gonna be energized in the workout, you're gonna have a better performance with a workout because you're gonna have more energy.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to go into a workout depleted feeling like crap, because you've maybe you get the opportunity to work out three times a week.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you go into that hour depleted on energy and not being able to perform well?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just it's just silly.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you you if you're given that time commitment, you may as well fuel correctly for it because otherwise you're not gonna optimize that hour, you know, going back to going back to being optimized.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's just true.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, perhaps if you're a professional athlete and you're you're training a couple times a day, yes, you're gonna have nutritionists, etc.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But there might be some sessions where you're not perfectly fueled for, and that's just gonna be the case, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think one massive mindset shift that I had, and it was uh watching Ross Edgley, who's an ultramarathon swimmer.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's done everything, hasn't he?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's a beast, he's an animal.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think he he swam around Iceland, he swam down the Yukon River non-stop, which is like 513 kilometres.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just ridiculous.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And his whole thing is all about fueling, and one of his ideas in his ideas of resilience is something called suffering strategically managed, which is as it said, like to get through suffering, it's not just grit and determination, it's how can you manage it from a strategic point of view, and a lot of his is all about fueling, so giving your body what it needs so that you don't have to uh use willpower to get to the door, it's to when you're in that session, it's only the really hardest bits of the workout that you need to use willpower for.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is done by correct fueling and proper nutrition.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I took that on board and doing bike sessions, doing running sessions and the rest of it, and just base level get up and start the workout, I realised it was so much easier and actually became a habit and a routine to prime me for the workout itself.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So to even have a routine of fueling and to tell your body and to give it the confidence that you have what it takes in the session to get it done is a massive mindset and psychological shift, and sets up a good sequence of events to get you the best workout possible.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, well said, Charlie.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I I agree, I agree with all of that completely.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it's it's all it's always good to look at who is doing it the best and and you know who who's comparing what you're doing to you know an elite athlete of some sort and what what are they doing differently, but it's also being mindful that you were not probably not an elite athlete.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um sorry if there are any elite athletes listening to this today.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not talking to you directly.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you got other stresses in your life, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: You've got work, you've got kids, um, you know, there's other things going on, and and your health and fitness is just a component of that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a glass, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you you can only have you can't fill up all your glasses to the brim and then it will be overpouring into your life because then you're just gonna be stressed out and and you don't want to be stressed.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's being mindful of these things, um, being aware of of how to fuel it correctly before your sessions, and just m like maximizing those hours where you are spending on your you know your fitness and health each week because otherwise, what's the point?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I think it is also the shift, and we went through it in talking about uh total daily expenditure of energy, your TDE, in our previous episode on um the science of losing body fat, and it is about not working out to burn calories, like not doing exercise so that you can burn calories, and the rest of your lifestyle, because it's only you know five, ten, maybe twenty percent of your day, you're burning the calories in in the workout, the rest is just the general walking, the activity, and then just your your body burning calories to keep you alive and functioning.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it is making sure and working out how much fuel you're gonna need for these workouts and giving you the fuel before, giving you the fuel after, and then for the rest of the day, giving yourself what it needs to maintain.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, carbs on the whole, carbs before, mixture of you know, your maybe your fast release and your slow release.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um during, I would yeah, like you say, only if you it's very specific, um, and it's worth going into you know it's worth researching yourself if you are doing something specific for an endurance event, how many carbs you will need for for that session, and that's when you might need gels or sweets or something.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then after like intra workout shakes and stuff, which are just carbs, yeah, essentially in a shake.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then afterwards getting something in um pretty quickly, is there a time window that people should be eating after their after their workout?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Nearly as soon as possible.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you just think of your your glycogen as a battery, yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before you want that battery to be full, and then that workout brings that battery down.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you kind of get it back up to that full level as quickly as possible?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: A more simple carbohydrate, more sugary one will get your you know stores back up faster.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, generally at post-workout, we go for more complex carbohydrates with a protein source.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you work out in the morning trying to have your breakfast post-workout with some good healthy fats, some proteins, and some maybe more complex carbohydrates.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's an example of those?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: What would you go?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: What would you go for after your session?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, usually, so usually I start my day off.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is I said that this is a perfect day.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Generally, I start my day off with like um, you know, a shake with some protein powder in there, some berries, um, some like frozen berries, uh, some nuts and some seeds, and then some like some honey.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this will give me a decent amount of carbs um from mostly from the berries and the honey.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll kind of do my workout, and then post-workout, I'll probably have some sourdough eggs and um some salmon, you know.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so getting my healthy fats from the salmon and a little bit of protein, some protein from the eggs and some more healthy fats and then some more carbohydrates from the sourdough.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, that's a pretty good uh way of doing it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, if you're not into but you just don't have time took eggs, maybe you look at doing like an overnight oats sort of thing where you're gonna have some oatmeal with maybe you put a pre scoop of protein powder in there, or you make it with Greek yogurt.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's different variations you can do with overnight oats, but again, you're gonna have a carbohydrate source, you could put some nuts and seeds in there for some healthy fats, and then you're gonna have a protein source.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that these are just some options uh that you could do.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's many more, but it's it's more of a well-rounded meal post-workout, um, pre-workout, more dominantly carbohydrate focused.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like short, you know, if you're last minute to getting that fuel in, it's about an hour beforehand.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: You want to get those more simple carbohydrates in.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: But again, if you had a pretty substantial lunch with plenty of clock complex carbohydrates at about one o'clock and you were going to train at five or six, you you might be fueled enough if the meal was substantial enough, but also it might be an idea just to have a quick banana, you know, an hour before you work out as well.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think that's good on the yeah, thank you for that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good on the fueling front.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course it's good for preparing for the workouts, but also recovering afterwards.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go on to rest and recovery.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: First, first of all, difference between rest and recovery, is it the same thing?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are there nuances between the two?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie and I right now are resting.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're sat down on the sofa chatting to each other, he's gazing into my eyes, which just really calms me down.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um gets that rest and digest, that you know, um parasympathetic nervous system activation.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're just we're just chilling out, you know, sitting on the sofa, resting, sleeping, resting.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, just just hanging out, not doing a whole lot, watching some TV.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: That is rest.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's true rest, and that's what a rest day should look like.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: A whole bunch of nothing.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Then recovery is what a lot of people are getting confused with rest.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so recovery is more mobility, um, you know, going for recovery, uh uh ice bar, red light therapy, sauna, it is actively doing something to to heal your body, um, maybe getting massage, etc.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the recovery is more active and then um it's more passive rest, it's just literally doing nothing, trying to switch off, unwind.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think Charlie, you might have some other definitions up for us, or is it Yeah, I think you I think just effective recovery.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Recovery is more about getting blood flow um to the muscles that you've tried.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Trained and and then maybe also a release or some sort of movement.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it just comes down to to blood flow and maybe like a myofascial release when you talk about like massages.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's alleviating the symptoms of the workout that you've had.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times it's alleviating soreness because you can train through soreness, but you soreness, but you might be able to train better if you're less sore.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So getting back to baseline after a workout, if you feel really sore, going for a walk, doing some mobility for the day in between before your next workout will prepare you better for the for the next one.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, think whatever it is to get to get blood flow, but not to fatigue yourself.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing is like, oh, I'm going for a recovery session, like another lifting session or like a recovery run.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's still part of your training.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's not recovery, it's just training at a lower intensity.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas it might be different, it is obviously relative to what you are what you are training for, um, but it is more on the yeah, the sauna, the ice bath, the walking, the red light therapy, that sort of route, rather than oh, I'm just gonna run at a slower pace.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're still loading, loading your body.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, yeah, best we can go through the best um forms of recovery.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say is number one, number one recovery, and it might come down as rest as well.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sleeping.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sleep.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've asked before, I said, you know, is sleep is sleep like active in a in a sense, you've it's more just like a conscious act, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's still it's still part of rest, but it can be very good for it's a conscious act to fall asleep, but once you're asleep, it's subconscious, right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's your subconscious mind wandering around and exploring some things and deep REM sleep, you know, find out a few things in there.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Memory consolidation.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Think of like REM, REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is more about mental recovery, um, stress, memory consolidation.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of thing that you want to get the most of if you are a student or you need to learn something or you're preparing for a speech or a presentation.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, REM is you're gonna be most uh accessed at the end of the night.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that is gonna be longer duration of sleep, getting up to that eight, hopefully nine hours, but just over seven for a lot of people, yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, depending on age and also depending on how much you can function and recover like between the sessions and in life.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the yeah, the longer you sleep, the more REM you're gonna get.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the and then in terms of deep sleep, the earlier and the more consistent bedtime you have, the better deep sleep you're gonna get.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then that is more physical recovery.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So think REM is mental, deep sleep is physical.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, simple.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Simple as, and it was also you know, getting adequate sleep is helping to regulate your hormones.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of kind of think of the the deep deep sleep and overnight is more like a a hormone reset for each day.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the the higher the debt of sleep you acquire over a week, the less regulated your hormones will be, the more less energy you'll have, the more fatigue, the more likely you are to get injured, the more likely you are to be stressed.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So these other elements are are very important to kind of take into account because if you're not getting adequate sleep, you're gonna be more stressed, you're gonna be more likely to get injured, you're gonna have lower energy, and you know, that that that's everything that recovery should be kind of getting rid of.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So sleep is by far the most important, but then if you kind of really look into it, it it depends on the individual, right?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because some people would really benefit from more mobility training if they're very tight.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so putting, you know, a day or two aside each week to just go and do some ability routines and some stretches might be really, really important for for that individual for that that recovery process.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you got someone who's hypermobil like hope hypermobile, how important is that gonna be for their week?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not not quite as much.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And perhaps that individual really struggles with delay delayed onset muscle soreness and they've got really achy muscles.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what would be best for them?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a little bit more blood flow, um, maybe rolling out slum light massage, maybe looking at some hot cold therapy, these sorts of things can come into account.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, the staples of recovery are always kind of you know, rest, recover, unwind.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can I not think about anything for a couple hours?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or watch a film and not think about work or exercise, whatever it is to kind of take your mind away from that, because you can always come back from that feeling inspired again.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about one thing all day, and that's all you ever think about, you get overwhelmed, it becomes stressful, and um, there's a bit more to life than just getting really fit, you know.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and the way and and rest days or a down week in your training can just allow you to zoom out a little bit um and to gain some perspective.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst I think it is just a process of zooming in and zooming out, it's a process of stressing and resting, like good stress, and then recovering from that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the oscillation that you go through with training and in life.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is there are some times where you really need to be on it, and there are some times where taking your foot off the pedal is is the best the best thing.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, sleep sleep if you can, um, as best as you can, obviously, if you've got kids and young kids.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, it's tough.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: In that in that situation, you need to really look at the nutrition and the hydration side of things, making sure you're getting you know upwards of two litres of water consumed a day.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And just because it's getting to the point, I mean it's still sunny, now the weather's still hot, but especially going into the winter, still staying hydrated, just because you're not sweating or it's not hot doesn't mean that you shouldn't be hydrated.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So then look at the nutrition and look at the hydration, and that's gonna make such a big, such a big difference.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then down from that, um training load management is probably something in terms of recovery, which is probably not even looked, not even overlooked, but not looked at, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And training load management just being yeah, looking at your life stress and your life load and saying, is this level of training that I'm doing at the moment am I able to recover outside of it?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I on it with the have I increased training?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Have I increased at work?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Have I, you know, increased in my social life?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: All of those go together, and that will impact how quickly and how well you can recover.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, because not all of us are elite athletes or, you know, god forbid, influencers who are getting paid loads by and basically uh basically full-time athletes, um, it is looking at at the rest of it, and so yeah, looking at reducing stress in other areas.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've got some some numbers writ up about recovery periods post different styles of session.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um why don't you spit those numbers out, Charlie, and to kind of bring a bit of perspective on this.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think the best thing as a rule of thumb is the more intense the session, the longer recovery you're gonna need from it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are training speed and plyometrics, really explosive, fast movements, it's anywhere between 48 and 96 hours of recovery to return to baseline so you can get back to that level.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is that, two to four days?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're looking at maybe training speed twice twice a week.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, power and maximal strength, you're looking, you know, 32 to 72 hours.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um one and a half, but again, it's intensity for you know, these numbers are they're helpful, but it the intensity of a session, and and a lot of you guys will be able to just tell that by how sore your body is.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like strength training is a really nice one to gauge because your muscles you'll feel that muscle soreness.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, as soon as that muscle soreness is gone, it doesn't necessarily mean you're fully recovered, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it can kind of paint a picture, and you know, a lot of a lot of people when they do strength training, it's the second day they feel the most stiff, and it can take upwards of three days to recover from a session, maybe even four.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if it's taking you four days to recover from a session, you've probably trained too hard.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you probably trained too hard because you're only getting stronger by recovering efficiently.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: You you were breaking your body down, exercising.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the whole purpose.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're pushing your body to a limit, and then the recovery process is your body reacting to that stimulus and thinking, shit, that was really hard.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna recover and get a little bit better for the next time we do it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So your body makes adaption and it gets fitter or stronger.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's literally as simple as that.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why recovery, the topic we're talking about today, is so important because you are not getting stronger in the gym, you are breaking your body.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: You were literally making yourself weaker in the gym or weaker on your run, and it's that recovery process that enables you to get fitter and stronger.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I cannot elaborate that enough, and that's why it's so important.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: But these recovery times, the fitter and stronger you get, the recovery times do reduce, but then you increase the intensity again, and you make it more difficult for yourself.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: You up the weights, you up the speed of your run, you up the you know, the the amount of volume you're doing in a session, so you're deliberately making it more difficult, progressively overloading over time, and your body gets more efficient at recovering to that because it gets stronger or fitter, but then you need to increase the intensity bit again.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've either you've got options.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I always see it as like the happy hour conundrum.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got happy hour and you've got two for one cocktails, you've got two options basically.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You've either got the option of all right, I'm getting them cheaper, so I'm gonna have twice as many for the same amount of money.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or you could go for the option of well, I'm just gonna have the same amount of drinks, but it's gonna be half the price, it's gonna be half the price.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same with training, like in terms of progressively overloading, the training can just be the same difficulty, it's gonna be just as hard as it was the last session, but you are just gonna get stronger, or you could make it easier as you go forward, but then you won't get as many results.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is adapting as well to your approach to the training and your perception of the soreness as a reward for the session and positive feedback rather than seeing everything as bad pain.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think and as as we were talking about before we started recording, the in terms of muscle groups, the bigger the muscle group, the longer the longer the recovery.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why you know it's is usually a back squat or a heavy deadlifting session or a heavy lunging session, which usually most people complain about and not being able to sit down on the toilet, go up the stairs for multiple days on end.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're the biggest muscle groups, they take the longest to recover.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Your lower body is the the muscles are huge.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, compare the size of your quadricep to your bicep.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, that's gonna take a lot longer to recover.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why most people, you know, the stiffness in their legs post-session is that's why it's so unbearable.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: One, because you are forced to use them every day to walk and get around everyday life, but two, you know, it's uh they're they're the biggest muscle groups in your body, so therefore they take the longest to recover from.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, what if you just what have you just searched up there, Charlie?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was kind of just going because when you are training at really high high levels um of intensity, you are you're obviously um recover well, you're you're breaking down the muscles, but also if you go for really maximum efforts, it's a it takes a toll on your nervous system as well.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's that nervous system recovery.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this could be, and again, it kind of goes hand in hand, it is like gentle movement, walking, getting out into nature, the nervous system recovery.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you are doing some breathing, some meditation, anything that alleviates stress can allow you to recover quicker.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why there's a balance between not it's like it's like stretching, is don't white knuckle, like try really hard with your stretching, because in order to be effective, in order for stretching to be effective, you need that sort of stress relaxation response.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: You need your body to be comfortable, you need to stretch it a little bit and then allow your body to relax, and then you push it a little bit more.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: In the same with recovery, you can't chuck loads of tools at you and train recovery, uh treat recovery like training and just try hard rim recovery.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like put things in place, put systems in place, make sure you're eating right, make sure you're sleeping well, make sure you're hydrating, give yourself a little bit of mobility or walking or a full rest day, and just then chill out, switch off, do something else.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not for the sake of recovery, but just for the sake of like living.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's that's the key because when you look into ice baths, when you look into saunas, I think we'll go into a deep dive, maybe more on like recovery techniques, but I think this is just a really good episode, just over half an hour to go through exactly how to recover, how much to recover.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I guess one thing is when you start to train more, first you might train two to three times a week and you'll be doing full body sessions, and that two to three times is is guided by the intensity of the training that you do for the whole, you know, the whole body.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you wanted to train more, then you would adapt your like split training split.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So then you can start to train some muscles one day, and then the next day you could train the other muscles.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you do an upper body session on the Monday, you could do a low lower body session on the Tuesday, and then on the Thursday you come back to the upper body, Friday back to the lower body, and then you might have an extra day for something full body or something a little bit like more isolated exercises, that sort of thing.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, the frequency of the training does then change the split of how you train.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, look at the different look at the isolated muscles or the muscle groups or the systems that you want to train and then base your recovery around those.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a whole topic for itself, you know, training splits.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's again, but uh most class gyms, if they have good programming, they're gonna kind of accommodate that into into their programs, as we do here at Barn Gym.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very difficult because you'd you you're writing a a programme for six days a week, Monday through Saturday, and you know, people are coming two or three times a week, it's very difficult to predict what days they are gonna come.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna come at a time that suits them the best.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's kind of where you can kind of fall into that trap.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you noticed you've already done legs twice that week, and then you go again to the class and it's lower body dominant again, perhaps just subbing, say, hey, I've already done some squats and deadlifts this week.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really want to do lunges as my main compound lift.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Could I do a bench press or a row or a pull-up or a you know, another variation of just an upper body movement?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Most coaches with any sense are gonna say yes.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I had that today with one of the members in in our class.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she had done a former bench press yesterday.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we had an incline bench press today.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, we'll s with the class format because we're in pairs or threes, we'll stick with that unless you're genuinely so sore.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if it if you're at the point where you're like, this is just actually way too much.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: I said just change it for a pull and movement and do the opposite side.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, benefits and and disadvantages of classes is because you've got so many people turning up at different times.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Programming becomes it's only so personalized you can make it, you know.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, Charlie, look, I think we could dive into the nuances of everything today.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: But as a summary, guys, I hope this has really helped you out with learning a bit more about recovery and rest.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, as always, if you have any questions, leave some comments below uh on the the podcast, and we'll be happy to get back with you uh with perhaps another podcast episode on your question.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and thank you.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was coaching Brit last night and she wanted some stuff on fueling fueling recovery, uh-huh.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we've done this episode.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So Britt if you're at the end of this episode, thank you for your thank you for your suggestion.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we will go into it more in a more extensive episode next time.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, bye guys, thanks for listening.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Adios