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Rejection Sensitivity · Gay Men Going Deeper

0:00
Speaker A: Foreign.
0:08
Speaker B: Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gaming's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I am your host, Matt Lansadel, and joining me today are Michael Diorio and Reno Johnston. And today we're talking about rejection sensitivity. We're going to be exploring questions like how does rejection sensitivity show up in your everyday life? What are the roots of rejection sensitivity for you? And how have you healed from rejection sensitivity without avoiding vulnerability? What we want you to get out of today's episode is how the fear of rejection may be preventing you from living the life you deeply desire to live. Being sensitive to rejection is exacerbated by growing up gay. And we need to learn how to have more compassion for ourselves. So we want to plant that seed of compassion in each of you today. If you're new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review which helps us get into the ears of the people who need us. This podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you do enjoy what we are creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes or you can tap the thanks button on YouTube. You can also subscribe to the early access option on Apple Podcast where you can listen ad free and gain early access to all the episodes. And all your support helps us continue making content for you and supporting our community. And we do thank you in advance for that. All right, Rejection sensitivity. So this is our third episode talking about rejection. Our very first episode on this podcast was about rejection. And then last year we did a podcast called Fear of Rejection. This is a huge topic for a lot of gay men that we, we struggle with. So if you have not listened to those, you could kick it old school with us in the very first episode or search last year's episode, Fear of Rejection. Today we're going to be talking a little bit more about the sensitivity to rejection and how we might have confirmation bias around. You know, there's a principle in the universe. It's like you look for it and you'll find it, right? So if we're always looking for rejection, we're gonna perceive it through the filters of our wounds. So I think it's really important to be mindful of that. Not saying that there is an actual rejection out there, especially for our sexuality, but sometimes we can make a mountain out of a molehill. So Rejection sensitivity is a psychological tendency to anxiously expect, readily perceive and overreact to rejection. People with a high rejection sensitivity often interpret ambiguous social cues as signs of disapproval or exclusion, leading to heightened emotional responses like anxiety, shame or anger, even when rejection isn't actually occurring. So for those of you who have rejected somebody and they became very angry and they blocked you or they said horrible things, this happens all the time on the hookup apps. This is likely why somebody's wound of whatever abandonment or whatnot has been salt thrown into it. So it's going to create a pretty big response. So why is rejection sensitivity tend to impact gay men more? So broke it down into five, five things here. So early and chronic social rejection. So many of us experience rejection during our formative years. This is why it is a developmental trauma. Growing up gay, we might have experienced this rejection by our peers, our family, our religious communities, society at large. The early rejection wires our brain to expect future rejection and often heightening rejection sensitivity in adulthood. Okay, so that's the first one early in chronic social rejection. So it's laying the foundation. Okay, and then we might start to experience number two, which is internalized homophobia. Growing up in environments where being gay is looked down upon can lead us to internalizing negative beliefs about ourselves. So this can make us more emotionally reactive to perceived disapproval, especially in intimate or emotional vulnerable settings. So essentially if we are rejecting ourselves, it makes us more sensitive to the rejection from others. That's why self compassion is the remedy. We're going to be talking about that today. The third one is minority stress. So chronic stress from being a part of a stigmatized group amplifies mental health vulnerabilities. There's so much data that shows this. So the constant need to assess whether spaces or people are safe contributes to the hyper vigilance. And when we're, we're putting things through that hyper vigilance again, that confirmation bias kicks in and will be very sensitive to perceived or real sensitivity or rejection. The fourth one is dating and community dynamics. So in the context of gay dating, especially the apps, looks, status, masculinity, all these things can be disproportionately emphasized. So the environment can be highly rejecting or judgmental. And this reinforces our rejection sensitivity through these micro rejections or exclusion based shallow criteria that we often project onto each other as gay men. So if you're only dabbling in hookup culture and on these, these superficial apps, then yeah, you're probably going to be experiencing a lot of rejection or micro rejection and it could Be perpetuating the problem. And then the last one is less social support. So gay men may experience less familial support or feel alienated by their communities, which can weaken resilience against rejection and increased sensitivity to these social slights. A big protector factor of this or a resiliency factor Is going to be having community, having family support. And a lot of us grew up to a certain age where we didn't have connection with other gay people, right? So, like, we were only maybe seeing heterosexual people or whatever, at least in a positive light. And that really affects our ability to be able to feel seen and connected to and known. And these things are big protector factors for. For not feeling different and not feel susceptible to rejection. So, okay, so the first question is, how does rejection sensitivity show up in your everyday life? And let's kick it off with Reno.
6:30
Speaker C: What a juicy little topic. I can already feel the tenderness. Yeah. So just recently, I was having a conversation With a male friend of mine who identifies as heterosexual, and I revealed to him that I was noticing some feelings toward him coming up, like attraction that understandably, so, like, was. Was kind of developing. He had sort of opened up that he might be in this kind of more fluid and explorative phase, and we were getting a little bit closer. And so it kind of prompted some stuff in me as well. And there's a lot to love about this guy, and there's a lot to be attracted to about this guy. So, you know, it's perfectly, sort of normal, natural that this would be the case. When I revealed him that I was experiencing these feelings, he was very open and very receptive and also let me know. And I said to him, what I need to hear from you is very clear response as to whether you feel similarly or you don't, because it helps me be really clear about, like, where we're at. And then I can feel and heal and deal. And so, you know, he explained to me, like, it's not like that for me. I love you. Like, but we're. But we're just friends. What's interesting is how long it would have taken me to process everything that came up around experiencing the rejection previously and how quickly it happened this time. It maybe took me in total, I would say about a day. And I actually did it within minutes, but, you know, needed time on my own following to kind of move through it and everything that came up around it. And what I noticed were there. There were these little. I don't know, I think shame would maybe be some shame. And Some grief. But the distinction was that I felt. I felt a separateness or like a distance from it. Like it didn't feel so close to home as it would have in the past. I was able to look at it and hold it and go, okay, there's still some of this here from the past. You know, it being wrong for me to like have a crush on boys because. And straight boys for that matter. Right. Because, like, I'm gay or whatever, you know, they're not available, etc. Right. And just reminding myself it's perfectly normal and okay for me to be attracted to whoever I'm attracted to. There's nothing wrong with that. Regardless of my sexual orientation. Everyone else gets that pass. Why don't I? Why don't we? Right. What it also did, though, was it allowed me to. To really reflect on how far I've come and the ways in which, again, in the past, rejection really would have like, shook me. Like really shook me. I'll probably come back to this a bit more later, but I don't feel like I struggle with rejection so much these days. And I think it has something to do with the work that I've done to. To be more like solid and fluid and stubborn, like internally. And listen, not every time, you know, not every time. I don't get this right all the time. But certainly there's more distance, there's like more room, there's more space for me to hear no. And to receive it and to not to not take it on, you know, to not make it personal.
10:17
Speaker B: Yeah.
10:17
Speaker C: And again, I'll say more about that later on. What I will say though is that I did experience something. I like answering some of these questions with story, like personal experience. And I remember one time I was in this conflict. This was maybe a couple of years ago, I was in a conflict with a friend and he said to me, I said, I sense something's coming up here. I said, why, you know, do we need to get into it? Like, should we, you know, should we unpack it? I remember he said to me, you would want to get into it it. You like getting into it. Your drama. And I remember this was a fascinating experience because the moment he said your drama, it was like he had awakened the Beast. And the Beast being my alter ego, whose name is Drama. Funny enough, like, it was almost as if he had summoned him. And for about a two week period, I went through this whole. And I wrote it all the way through and it was actually quite fun and very revealing. But it's like this Alter ego took over. And for two weeks straight, I was in this, like, it was a triggered state in a way. And it's funny. Beyonce talks about this, how she taps into, like, Sasha Ferris. It's like, her alter ego, and there's this version of her that comes through, and it really felt like that. It really felt like something else took over for two weeks. And I was aware of it while it was happening, and I was able to reflect on it after. And what I recognized was that this aspect of myself existed to kind of Is a form of coping, is a form of navigating. It was a form of protection, I think, and keeping me safe. And there's a flavor of reactivity in there, I think. And so I now notice when that's happening. Like, I can now I can see him. I'm like, oh, I'm salty. There's something here. Like, drama's here. You know, Drama's in the room right now, and I can just acknowledge him. And it's like, we can play, but I'm not, like, overcome now. You know, I can go, yeah, okay, let's play this out. We'll go there. Or I can go, you know what, dude? We're good. Like, let's just take a deep breath, and we don't need to do all that, you know?
12:38
Speaker B: Yeah. It sounds like you have a lot of awareness and a lot of awareness of. Of triggers. It sounds like you've done a lot of deep work. So I'm curious in question three to hear your. Your answers of how you got to this place, because it feels like you've created a lot of spaciousness around this.
12:55
Speaker C: Yeah.
12:56
Speaker B: What about you, Mr. Michael?
12:59
Speaker A: How does rejection sensitivity show up in my everyday life? You know, similar to Reno. I can tell you a million ways in which rejection shows up in my everyday life, because it's all the time, everywhere. But the sensitivity part, I think we've all done a lot of work on that, which, you know, we'll talk about that. But I think, you know, the first thing I have to distinguish is how do I distinguish between just what's. What. What. Like, what's the sensitivity bit versus just what's processing the rejection? But I can tell you that rejection shows up a lot in the little mini rejections of, you know, getting a not interested as soon as you message someone or, you know, when. When you send them photos and they just block you and their profile disappears. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. That feels really nice. Thanks. That's, like, on the, you know, smaller. Smaller side. And Then on the bigger side, when you actually do genuinely like somebody and, you know, you have a bit of a connection with them and you want to take things forward and they just don't see you in that way, and then that's something that's. I'm currently dealing with right now. Even so I should kind of. And I know this person listens to the podcast, so I have to be very careful. You know who you are. But, yeah, it's like, I see I want a relationship, ultimately, is what I'm looking for. And it's so rare for me to find someone that for me, like, hits those buttons and. And I feel that way with. And then when I do find that, I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's this amazing connection that I have and you want the other person to see you in the same way, and then they don't. And that feels like a gut punch. And so I don't know if that's necessarily like rejection sensitivity. It's rejection, and I think there's a lot of pain and a lot of hurt that goes with that. And I think that's perfectly okay. At least that's what I. It's one of the ways that I cope with it is to say it's okay to feel this way. But I will say, you know, the automatic response in all of these situations of rejection is a very dramatic response for me, which is always, something's wrong with me. Like, it's me, like I'm wrong. So regardless of whether it's just the guy who just, you know, not interested, like someone I don't know says not interested or something deeper like this, it's. My automatic response is to take it very personally, something I did, something I said, something I don't look the right way, I don't do the right thing. I'm not the right age, I'm not the right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm too old. I'm not like, whatever, just something is wrong with me. And that part can, If I'm not aware, if I'm not treating myself kindly, with compassion and going through the tools and processes I actually know how to use. But if I don't do that, then I get into that rejection sensitivity bit where, as you had said, like, I kind of. It takes over in a way that is what I would say more than the appropriate amount of processing and pain and whatever, because rejection is painful. So to me, in my mind, the way I sit is okay, I'm going to give myself time to feel it and process It. Which we've talked about in previous episodes, but at the same time, not let it take over to the point where, you know, I use it to, like, trigger all of my shame stories, which is exactly what happens on automatic mode. But we'll talk about how kind of moved away from that later.
16:07
Speaker B: Yeah. And you're, you know, it's all valid, whether it's. We're sensitive to it or not. It's like, if anything, it makes it more valid because it's cutting us deeper.
16:16
Speaker A: Yeah.
16:17
Speaker B: Right. So it's like learning how to, like, be with. With that and not go into those shame stories, I think is like. Yeah. It's a testament again, to your work and. And how you've gotten there.
16:26
Speaker C: I love what you said, too, about, like, something is wrong with me, you know, like, I really felt that. That feels like it lives. At the core of what these experiences bring up when they happen is like, it's personal. Right. It's me. Something's wrong with me.
16:43
Speaker A: And despite all the work that I've done and that we've done and that anyone's done, like, you know, it's still the automatic first thing that my brain will throw at me is it's me. Like, it just. It. Rejection has this way of making me question my worth, which normally is intact. I'm, you know, I consider myself a very confident person. But hey, guys, like, that does not mean that I'm immune to the pain of rejection, or anyone, for that matter, is immune to that pain. It's just a matter of, you know, what we do with it.
17:13
Speaker B: Yeah. It makes me think of, you know, like, rejected people. Reject people. It's like, traumatized people. Traumatized people. And I think, you know, our culture, the gay culture, is so cutthroat in these superficial areas, and I think it's. It's almost like I'm going to reject you before you reject me, and then that perpetuates the rejection wound. So, again, if. If we can do some of this work and, like, find more tenderness for ourself and stop rejecting ourself, then we're going to be less likely to reject others, and then we're going to be less likely to receive that rejection back. Because I just see this so much, and I see people hiding out in their homes and not wanting to go out because they're terrified of the gay community and how judgmental they are and these sorts of things. So we are, in a way, perpetuating our own problem in our community. And I think it's really important to you know, like, do the work and, and hold each other's hearts with tenderness as much as we possibly can. But we can only do that when we first hold our hurts with tenderness. Right.
18:14
Speaker A: Rejection is not going anywhere. It's part of the world, not just for gay men, but in general. Like, we cannot. You would have to live in a bubble and not go out at all. To not protect yourself from rejection, you have to ask yourself, is that the life you want to live?
18:25
Speaker B: Yeah.
18:26
Speaker A: I would rather us sit here and help people become more compassionate with themselves and learn how to, how to navigate rejection and end the pain that comes with it instead of saying, hey, we're going to try to avoid it and live this. What kind of life is that? Or you just don't do anything and don't interact with anyone. Not. It's not one for me, that's for sure.
18:44
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Rejection is an opportunity in. From my perspective now. I used to be so terrified of it because I was a people pleaser. Like, just perfect example. Five years ago when we started the brotherhood and all the, all the stuff came through, it was like, terrifying for me. It felt like just a lot to handle. But now it's like every time I experience like a hater or people like, you know, coming at me for different things, I use it as an opportunity to love myself and offer myself passion. And ever since I started doing that, this was like two years ago I made this switch. And I remember the actual day that this switch happened too. It was. And it might have even been longer than two years ago, but Callan was taking like, doing more of like, the monitoring of the, the comments on YouTube. And I remember he, like, screen grabbed a bunch of them and then sent them to me. And I was like, what the hell are you doing? Why are you sending me all these? And I was really angry at him for doing that. And then I was able to kind of check in with myself and I'm like, okay, where is this coming from? And I just had this, like, epiphany of like, okay, like, just sit with these, like, be with some of these comments. Is there any truth to them? And I was kind of just actually turning toward them as opposed to meeting them with defensiveness and anger. And I was able to transcend something. And ever since that moment, it's. It's gotten easier and easier to experience rejection because instead of approaching it with anger and defensiveness, I actually approached it with compassion for myself and love for myself. And that's when things started to shift. So, yeah, it's just, I wasn't even going to plan on sharing that. It just came out and I love when that happened. So other ways that rejection sensitivity shows up for me. Oh geez. I would probably say like one of the biggest ones is like lone wolf stuff. I still play that out. I, I struggle around other gay men that aren't gay men's brotherhood people because I just struggle. And I shouldn't even say that just with gay men. I struggle around people that aren't on a path of self growth and self consciousness and these sorts of things because it's just like I have a hard time relating to people that, that are not inner travelers, we could say. So I find that I do carry a bit of fear around being judged by these people and because they'll see me as like weird or that, you know, like just different things like that. So there's a young part in me that carries around that. So some of the ways, and I think this is what happens more so around gay men is I self monitor a lot because I want to make sure that I'm not being too, whatever, fill in the blank, too feminine or, or not cool or unattractive, these sorts of things. And I think part of me is really shedding this right now, attaching less to my appearance and just trying to embody energy, the energy of Matt, who is the, the energetic personality of Matt. And can I just bring that forward as opposed to the ego part which wants to monitor me, make sure that, you know, I'm constantly watching people's reactions to me. And then I, I show up in a way that is approving of people's reactions. Like just the, the egoic way that human beings show up right when we're very concerned about people's opinions of our, of us or being cool or fitting in these sorts of things. So that's definitely one of the ways. And a sensitivity that I have too is still a young part inside of me. The part that probably kept me closeted to 18 that has a core belief that straight people are disapproving. So it's like there's a part of me again that is like be a little bit mindful of who I disclose myself to. I still will and I always will. But a good example is, you know, I bumped into an old high school friend, a guy, and this was a couple years ago, and he asked me about, oh, like, are you married? Do you have kids? Or anything like that. And it was almost like time froze. And I was like, what do I do? Like, should I And I was like, oh, no, I'm gay. And it just came out. And he's like, oh, cool, that's great. And then it just. The conversation went on. Right. But it's like those little micro moments where I project into a scenario or onto a straight person that they're automatically going to disapprove of me. And so I just. I noticed these little things, how they still play out at times, but. Oh, and the other one I will put is using my imagination to anticipate rejection. So, like, having arguments with myself, you know, in my mind, or this person said this or that, or I'm always perceiving, so I just thought that was really funny. Or like little arguments with people in the shower or if somebody said something that I put through the filter, like, my ego loves to. And I probably have a similar alter ego that you're describing, Reno. Like, that. This dramatic kind of like drag queen energy inside of me that's like, always like, perceiving, you know, like. And just can be, like, nasty. Right.
23:36
Speaker C: I think, girl, I didn't say drag queen.
23:38
Speaker A: Who.
23:38
Speaker C: You saw a drag queen drama queen.
23:41
Speaker A: Just kidding.
23:42
Speaker C: No, she. Drama is a drag queen, too.
23:44
Speaker A: Yes.
23:48
Speaker B: Yeah, those are. Those are kind of mine. So.
23:50
Speaker A: Yeah.
23:51
Speaker B: Yeah. So I want you as enlisted viewer, just to take a moment and. And contemplate what is this conversation bringing up for you? How does rejection sensitivity show up for you? And feel free to drop in the comments on YouTube if you're. You're watching over on YouTube and we're going to have these discussions. So if you want to share your comments not just on YouTube, but in a chat with us in our sharing circles or connection circles, you can have a chance to share your own experience and let us know how rejection sensitivity impacts you. Sharing circles are larger gatherings where one person shares at a time. And our connection circles are exactly what the three of us are doing as you're listening to us. So you get to go into a little pod and go deeper into these topics and make some new friends as well. If that sounds like something you'd be interested in, you can go to gaymensbrotherhood.com check out our event section to RSVP. And if you don't have Facebook, you will just get on our email list and we'll make sure that we email you the zoom link for the sharing circle, and you can also purchase tickets for the connection circles on our website as well under the events tab. All right, Reno, what are the roots of rejection sensitivity for you?
25:03
Speaker C: So I don't know Enough. I don't have enough. I'm not enough. You know, I'm too much. There's. I mean, there's a laundry list. Like, my blackness. You know, I'm fat. I'm short. I'm too feminine. I'm too sexual. I'm too sensual. And I can trace all of this back to, like, you know, back to childhood, my relationship to the boys and men in my life, my absent biological father and the way sort of men were in some ways inconsistent in my life where I had tumultuous relationships with men and boys always felt different. You talked about minority stress earlier. I mean, that was, you know, from. From the jump. That was something I was navigating and. And, yeah, feeling definitely feeling rejected in some ways by, like, my dad, who just didn't. Didn't really know what to do with me initially, which I understand. You know, I love him. I forgive him. He's amazing. He was doing his best. And then, yeah, the other boys and people that I. I spent time with, I think it all kind of stemmed from there, because then I've said this in previous episodes, I came in a bad bitch. And then, like, it was just like, no, you know, like. Like my environment, some of my environment approved and affirmed it. And other aspects were like, nuh, no, you're not. And I had to kind of fight to be like, actually, no, yeah, I am. Yeah, I am, and you are too. So chill. Other things that come up as I sort of reflect on maybe what I feel is kind of tethered to some of this, like, I was thinking about. I listed some of them already, but, like, my queerness or, like, being dramatic or being dynamic or even. There's some stuff in here around ADHD and OCD and sort of how I cope and navigate life. You know, the narrative that I'm not loved or I'm alone or I'm unworthy or, as Michael said, there's something wrong with me. I think, like, a lot of this stems from. From that and some of those earlier developmental years and the messaging I was receiving both explicitly and implicitly from. From the environments I found myself in, you know, So I would say that's definitely where that comes from. And it's interesting, too, because I think it's important to acknowledge that during those earlier formative years, we don't necessarily have the. The capacity to sort of discern what's true and what isn't. And so we're like sponges, you know, so we. We take in and soak up whatever is being passed to us, you know, and if not immediately, if it's drilled in enough, like, if, if, if that's what we keep getting over and over and over again. And eventually it gets in and then it stays in and then it informs what we take in and everything we're relating to and engaging with, you know, and so this is one of the reasons why, like, I love the work of Byron, Katie. Like, is it true? You know, is it true? You know, is it true that you're ugly? Is it true that you're not enough? Is it true that you don't know enough? Can you be absolutely certain that it's true? How do you feel when you. When you think this thought, you know, and. And who would you be without it? Right? It's like, oh, I'd be free. I'd see that I'm beautiful and I'm enough and I'm worthy and, you know, and all of that. So. Yeah, but it's. The shit is deep.
28:39
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. You bring a perspective that Michael and I don't have, which is being a person of color. And I'm curious, like, your experience with that. So the rejection side of it, but then also the rejection sensitivity is there filtering that was developed being, you know, you said from the jump you've had minority stress.
28:56
Speaker C: Oh, yeah. It's always either, like, often, rather, they're not attracted to me because I'm black. They aren't choosing me because I'm black, I can't hang because I'm black. Or, you know, sometimes it was like. What's so interesting is like this sort of paradox. This, like, I'm not black enough for the black people, but I'm too black for the non black people, you know, Or I'm not gay enough for, like, the people who are, like, super gay, you know, but I'm maybe too gay for the people who aren't, right? So it's. Yeah, it's. I've always kind of felt like this. This person who lives in this kind of like, middle space that I've actually become really comfortable with. Because, to be honest, there's actually real freedom in not fitting in. Now I have to be mindful not to, like, you know, because I'll sometimes try to jump the gun and be like, I'm going to reject all of you before you reject me because I'm a bad bitch, you know, and it's like, well, okay, but what are you missing in the process? What are you missing out on? You know? What are you missing out on in that process? And so, yeah, I've really had to kind of notice that, like, is this really about that? You know, and it can be hard sometimes to discern because it's like, racism is a real thing, you know, prejudice is a real thing. Like, these are all. It's not. This is not pretend, you know, it's not. I'm not making it up. But also, like, discernment has become a great tool and a great practice in these situations. But, yeah, definitely moments where someone doesn't like me, and immediately my mind goes, oh, that's because you. You're black. That's because you're effeminate. You know, that's because you're different.
30:44
Speaker B: Yeah, I can relate in the sense of. With straight men, I'll feel like that is. Is this person, like, kind of like, with me because he feels my gayness. Right. Like, my friends, boyfriends. Like, I feel that energy sometimes. And that's where it can be challenging, too, being an empath. And I'm sure you can relate to that, Reno. It's like, you know, you pick up on people's stuff, and you can kind of feel. It's like, yeah, this person is feeling my feminine gayness, and they're uncomfortable with it, and they' putting up an energetic wall. Right. So sometimes it's hard not to be sensitive.
31:19
Speaker C: Yeah. I love that you said that you brought the, you know, the empath piece in too, because, yeah, definitely like it. It to kind of go, okay. Like, I have these sense. I have these capacities to sort of tune into what's in the space. Can I also just kind of notice it, but, like, let it go and just sort of hold space for what's happening here? Not sort of jump into it and become immersed in it, but be like, yeah, that might be. I'm feeling it, and it's okay, you know?
31:49
Speaker B: Yeah. Michael, what about you?
31:52
Speaker A: Yeah, I really want to echo what Reno said. I don't want to say it again, but, yeah, that I. I can trace it all back to childhood, I would say, even before the gay part. Like, I. I distinctly remember as my. Some of my earliest memories, or I wasn't. I wasn't gay. I didn't even have any attraction to anything for that matter, at that age. But I always felt like an outsider. It's almost like it was always there. I don't know how else to describe it. It wasn't like one day. I just wasn't. I just didn't feel like I belonged in bigger groups. I really enjoyed being with my mother and my father and my family. And like individual one on one time, I felt very comfortable. But as soon as there was a group of people, I felt scared and anxious. Actually, you didn't even look at pictures of me as a kid and I'm like hiding. All the other kids are playing and I'm just like scared little boy in the corner. So, yeah, I think you know the roots of it. Yeah, I'm struggling to find words here because I don't. I don't remember what it was like specifically, but those are some of my earliest memories. And I have always had that hyper vigilance around rejection and acceptance. Really wanting to be accepted, yet not knowing how to and not feeling like I could or I had the right qualities, whatever that may have been. You know, not outgoing enough, not talkative enough, not social enough, not fun enough, all of those things. So that desperation to wanting, the desperation of wanting to be seen and loved, I think we all have that, the need. But for me it was a bit of a desperation and really wanting it. And then so when I didn't get it because there was such a high desperate need, whenever I like, a little bit of rejection was there. It really hit me hard because it's something I wanted so, so bad. And I learned that out there was dangerous and not safe, and inside was safe and still on wolf. Right. That's where that was born. So I think for me, it is true. We as queer people are rejected. We are not the mainstream. There are lots of people out there who do not like us, who do not agree with us, who don't understand us. Not everyone, of course, but for the most part, that's the default. So it's very real. That's the minority stress part. But then also having that reaffirmed from each friend who doesn't like you or each person or guy who rejects you, it just feels like it piles on. And so Rena, when you ask that question, and I love buying Byron Katie's work, but sometimes you're like, do you know for sure this is true? And I'm like, yes, bitch, I know for sure this is true. Let me show you the ways. But what I love about her work, though, is that it's the latter two questions that really hit home for me, which is like, who would I be without this thought? That part is kind of where the healing happens for you. Yeah. Or for me, rather.
34:36
Speaker B: Yeah. It makes me think, like the story you just shared. There's like so many, like in all the clients that I work with, I work predominantly with gay men. I would say 80% of my clientele are gay men. I'm just a firm believer that we're all sensitive souls. I haven't worked with a gay man that isn't sensitive. And a lot of us have big protector parts to protect that part. As the protector parts integrate grade, there's this tender sensitive. Right. And I just, yeah, it's, it's fascinating. I feel like, you know, I kind of frame it as like the witch wound. And I feel like queer people, gay people, we came into this life with past life wounds around not belonging. And we came here in the incarnation of something that will experience the thing that we are made to heal through.
35:22
Speaker C: I love when you get all woo woo. It's so good.
35:25
Speaker B: The witch wound is just that it's like somebody who was different. They, they left when everyone went, right. They were non conformists back in medieval time and they got their head cut off. Right. Or then they had to watch all their, their fellow witches get their heads cut off and stuff like that. This is like past life stuff that a lot of us carry and I think we're here to like reconcile that and, and break karmic ties and things like that. So you know, I kind of sometimes look at it as like I'm a warrior that's like overcoming this karma that's been, that I've been bound by for, you know, many like lives. And I can continue to hide or I can roar like a lion and speak up and you know, like heal some of this stuff.
36:08
Speaker C: So you said something about us being sensitive beings. I just want to speak to like, thank you for saying that. It was really beautiful. And it's interesting too because I can, I can see how someone who maybe presents as you do would be overlooked in that regard. Like maybe not perceived as sensitive but like, you know, having connected with you, like that's definitely there and it's beautiful. And you know, as you mentioned that I look at the collective like I actually think everybody, like and maybe this is what you meant, but I actually think everybody's sensitive. And in fact the degree to which somebody is essentially overcompensating for, for that, you know, like the hardest, most sort of aggressive, performative, overcompensating people are usually the most sensitive. You know, like they've got the most armor built up because they're, they're like the most sensitive, you know, and they're.
37:07
Speaker B: The most associated because of it.
37:09
Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. But I think that's, to me actually I think the norm is connecting to reconciling with and really Becoming a space for that sensitivity. Because I think that's just how we here are built, you know, resilient and sensitive. You know, can we be a space for that?
37:31
Speaker B: Yeah.
37:32
Speaker C: I love that you brought that up.
37:33
Speaker B: Yeah. Roots of my rejection sensitivity, for sure. One of them would be what you said, Reno, is that people respond to me based off of how society perceives somebody, like, based off of how I look. And I'm. I'm the opposite. It's kind of an interesting dynamic. I have a duality in the sense that, like, my inside and my outside don't really match. And people treat me. The world, outside world has always treated me by my outside. And it's made me. It's almost like gaslights me a little bit, like. But I'm not that person that you think I am. So I've always been up against this mirror of myself. But my soul is very different from how I look or how people perceive me from the outside. And so a lot of my journey has been about how can I become more congruent with my inside, with the soul, with the truth of who I am, not the facade and all the crap that we build around the soul. Right. I think it's so. It's interesting. But I would, you know, moving into other core areas for sure would be like my neurodivergence being, like, having sensory processing stuff, being sensitive, being empathic. Like, I just lump that under umbrella of neurodivergence. And I've always been different. I've been different than other little boys. First for being gay, for being neurodivergent. I've been different than most people in my family. Again, this is all just like witch wound stuff or the black sheep, whatever you want to call it. It's like there's this. This energy of not belonging. I think I carry a big belonging wound, and I brought that into this life, and I'm here to. To heal it. And then I. Yeah, just within my family system. Like, I. Well, my dad left when I was younger, and then just being. Not even feeling like being emotionally abandoned as a child. Like, my parents did not know how to meet me in an emotional way. So I always felt like I didn't have somebody there to help me with my emotions, with being different, being gay, being neurodivergent, any of these things. It was like, so. Yeah. And I think that perpetuates this loneness, like, just being. Being that lone wolf energy. It just feels safer for me to be in that energy. So I think, yeah, those are definitely some core Roots that are attached to. To that for me. All right, again, just checking in with yourself and just asking, what are the roots to my rejection sensitivity? If you're relating to this conversation, just peel the layer of the onion back and just see what's, what's being stimulated in this conversation for you. And how does being gay or queer, how does this impact your relationship to rejection? And if you are looking to accelerate your personal development journey and heal some of this stuff around rejection, you can check out our coaching collection where you can learn to heal and empower yourself at your own pace. And we have 45 premium personal development coaching videos and our two courses, healing your shame and building better relationships. So all of those, there's a ton of content in there that's going to help with dealing with rejection and shame and the things that are underpinning rejection. All right, last question. How have you healed from rejection sensitivity without avoiding vulnerability?
40:49
Speaker C: Well, let me just say this first real quick. I love that, you know, on site the three of us are very different people. And then we have conversations like this and there's a universality, you know, And I just, I think that's really beautiful. And I love, I love that that comes through in conversations like this, you know, that no matter who you are or what you look like, you've probably experienced what we're talking about, you know, And I mean, that brings me to my first point here, which is like, it's not personal. You know, like, really, when you boil it down, like, it's not personal, and sometimes it may appear to the person who's rejecting you like it even is. But I think what makes sense to me is that in my understanding of my limited understanding, but my, you know, my growing understanding of the human experience and what it's, you know, what it's like to be human. When you really boil it down, like, it is impersonal, you know, it's like a lot of it is just. It's just my stuff. It's just your stuff. It's just what's going on in here. You know, I've even been in situations where I'm like, made something about someone else. And I was like, it's them and it's this and it's that. And it's like, yeah, okay, maybe there's some room for that. But also, you know, when I really go inward, it's like, what's happening out there is an invitation in. In here, you know, And I think that this, like, that, that very notion, that very idea concept has definitely helped Me heal from rejection sensit without avoiding vulnerability, you know, is to recognize, as you've said in the past, Matt, like our triggers are our teachers, you know, so if rejection happens, right, it's an opportunity for me to be a space for what it brings up and to recognize that this may be an opportunity for. For me to let go of, you know, something that is maybe no longer serving me to. You know, I. I said here, like I was talking to my friend Robert yesterday, and I said to him, when I'm solid and I'm fluid and I'm free, rejection hardly rocks me, you know, when I'm not, it does. And then it shows me where I'm not yet solid or fluid or free, you know, and so in that is an opportunity. Every time I experience rejection, it's like, oh, okay, there's still some. There's still some work in there, and that's okay, you know, there's still some room for me to love and choose myself even more, you know, because that's it. That's another way that I have healed is by practicing choosing myself again and again and again every day. How do I do that? Well, I wake up and instead of choosing to engage with life in the world from an inside out, or, sorry, from an outside in place, it's like I start from the inside out, I wake up and I be with myself and I make room for myself and I choose myself, you know, through practices that allow me to be with myself. It could be meditation, it could be walking, it could be journaling, it could be talking to myself. But all of these practices are a way of extending love to myself and choosing myself. And the more I do that every day, the easier it is to go out into the world and not take the world personally, you know, and what happens out in the world personally, the other thing is recognizing that, listen, we've all, no matter what you look like or who you think you are, we've all probably rejected somebody else too, right? And it's like, explore that, you know, what was there for you? You know, like, it happens. Not everything is a fit. Not everyone is a fit. Not everything is a match. Not everyone is a match, you know, and sometimes we're like, but I really wanted, you know, this and that and this person and that. Do you know how many times I've said, thank God I didn't get everything I thought I wanted when I thought I wanted it? Like, that's grace. You know, sometimes rejection is redirection, as they say, you know, and it's like oh, thank goodness. You know, I really thought that I needed that or wanted that or had to have that, you know, but I didn't and life spared me. So, yeah, I think those are definitely some of the ways that I've healed from rejection sensitivity. And also, yeah, again, just like tending to with care. You mentioned belonging earlier. It's like there's this book I often reference and I even read a quote from it one time here on the podcast. It's called Belonging by Tocopah Turner. And I highly recommend you pick that book up if you're listening right now. It helps in so many ways to integrate our broken parts and heal where we are not belonging in ourselves and to ourselves. And I think that's been some of the greatest work I've done to heal rejection sensitivity is to belong to myself first.
45:52
Speaker B: You know, that's beautiful. I think there's like two things that really stand out. Taking responsibility and trust. That's like those like the two themes that I felt in, in your share, like, yeah, trusting that what's there for you is right. It's like there's a divine order, right. And that if we're being rejected, sometimes it's the universe's way of saying, like, that's not meant for you. So if we learn to trust in something higher than ourselves, more than our ego, our ego might feel rejection, right? But our soul knows, like, this thing wasn't meant for you. The next thing's coming. Don't worry. Right? Just hang tight, be patient and suspend.
46:28
Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for saying that. And suspend your expectations, you know, like that's another thing that gets me in trouble when it comes to rejection all the time. You know, it's like, can I just meet life and what's in front of me? Can I suspend my expectations of how things are going to go or should go or ought to go? And that can I just meet what's in front of me as it's in front of me? That is a difficult and liberating practice. Just meeting the moment as it is, without our hang ups or expectations. All the bullshit, you know, just what's here, truly what's here, you know?
47:04
Speaker B: Yeah.
47:05
Speaker C: What about you, Michael?
47:07
Speaker A: I think I already gave it away at the beginning, but I'll say it again. How have I healed from rejection sensitivity? And I love the qualifier without avoiding vulnerability. That has to be part of the question, guys. The answer is to let it hurt. Let it hurt. You just talked about being with yourself. That's kind of how I would describe it for me in My own words. And that's how it healed, I guess, from the sensitivity of it, is to recognize that this is supposed to hurt. It's not supposed to feel good. And you're not supposed to not feel it either. It's part of the. I like to think our souls signed up for it. Just like our souls signed up for grief and shame and pain and all the things, we signed up for the whole thing. So instead of avoiding it and thinking, oh, no, this shouldn't be happening, to be like, okay, this is happening, and how do I want to treat myself through this? And for all of the tools and processes that I can give you about healing, you know, all the quotes and empowering things and platitudes and whatnot. So many times I think we skip the most important step, which is to feel it, which we've talked about in previous episodes, right? Yeah. Well, you know, we can reframe what it means. We cannot take it so personally. You know, rejection is redirection. We can. We can do all the things. And that's all very, very good, and I think that is part of the process. But wait, pause, pause. Let's first, before we rush to get out of this painful feeling, you know, you owe it to yourself to tend to that hurt part of you, because, you know those intrusive thoughts I told you about, like, something's wrong with me. It's me, it's me, it's me, it's me, it's me, like, just hammering me. It's my shame wound just in that just. It uses rejection as. Like a. As a hammer and just smashes me over the head with it. Like, see, I told you you're not good enough. Ha. All right. Uses it as evidence. But even if the intrusive thoughts are false, and they often are, like, Brian, Katie, is this true? Oftentimes, the first answer is no. But even if the thoughts aren't true, the pain is still very real to me. And that is the part that needs tending to. And I think we forget that. At least I forget that sometimes, or I used to forget that. And so for me, I will give myself time and I'll say, okay, this is going to hurt. How long do we think we want this to hurt? For Michael, sometimes it's like, okay, this is gonna hurt for about 10 minutes, and then I'll be fine. Other times, it's gonna take a little bit longer than that. It really depends. And allowing myself and giving myself that time, tending to it, showing myself that I can hurt, that I can still love Myself and be in pain. I can love myself through it. That self compassion, I can't stress it enough how important that is to find your compassion for yourself in those moments, recover from it. And here's the, here's the gag. Then you do it all over again. You put yourself out there all over again and then you put yourself in front of rejection all over again. And sometimes it's not going to work out for you, but sometimes it is. And this is the part that I've been lately really asking myself and my close, close friends, single friends, this question is like, is it worth putting ourselves out there? Because I just had this conversation yesterday with a great friend of mine. I'm like, our lives are pretty single, our lives are pretty good. Like, why do we keep doing this to ourselves? You know, Like. But we do, we do because we think that there's something out there that is worth it, that it's worth getting hurt for. So, yeah, I think, you know, the answer for me is to actually let it hurt. And if you think of working out, you know, the muscle tear and repair process, it's very much the same way. You get hurt, you love yourself through it, you heal you, you live through it, you repair the wound and then you get a little bit stronger and that builds, it builds. So you have more resilience, I guess, and you're stronger. That is not the same as saying it. I'm not going to put myself out there or I'm going to reject the whole world so they don't reject me. That's not building any kind of resilience. That's in fact making you weaker and more sensitive to rejection.
51:10
Speaker B: Yeah, well said, well said. It's almost like the muscle for me would be like self acceptance. Right? Like if we're being rejected, there's the shame comes on of like, I'm not acceptable, I'm not lovable, like something's wrong with me. Yeah, self acceptance is. I know I'm whole. I know I, I love myself. And every time we get rejected, we get to build that muscle that you're speaking of.
51:30
Speaker A: Exactly. Like, it throws, I don't know about you guys, but it throws me off every time.
51:34
Speaker B: Oh my God, it's so painful.
51:36
Speaker A: And then it's like, wait a minute, I have to remember, you know, my power and everything you said, like just learning to love myself. And that doesn't mean I'm perfect and in any which way, but I am worth loving for sure. Like as I'm thinking about it now, this is very real for Me, like, I am worth that relationship that I want and I'm not going to allow this pain to like, make me so cynical and jaded just yet. Maybe, maybe in the future I might be. But right now I'm willing to like, live through it and try again next time. Right?
52:04
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's what I, I admire about you. You're somebody that puts yourself out there and you're willing to. Yeah. You're willing to face that feeling of being rejected and it allows you to build that, that tolerance. Right. Your nervous system has tolerance to it because you've put yourself in that situation.
52:23
Speaker A: Yeah. And I want to say that that doesn't come naturally. I had to train. I had to train my nervous system, retrain my nervous system because the automatic is, as we said, it's very hyper vigilant and everything, everything we talked about that was the, the sensitivity piece. But training it to. And myself to handle it in a different way is, is the work that's. I think that's what we're all here trying to help our listeners and viewers do. Right?
52:47
Speaker B: Yeah. I feel the same way about, about this, about putting myself out there, like vocationally for my work and, and being more public like that. I've had to train my nervous system in a big way. And when I would get rejection, I would, I would want to lash out and I'd get angry and then the ego would come on and the character would play and I would be. Be fighting with people in the shower and all like, that's that part of me. And I've had to learn that what I'm doing, when I'm doing that is I'm perpetuating the problem. I'm actually making my ego bigger and bigger and bigger, which is the part of me that gets slighted. So I've had to learn how to like, take responsibility for that feeling and be with it and then it allows it to discharge and it allows me to meet myself with more love and my capacity for compassion expands. So I think, like, if we can take that moment when somebody rejects us and we can just take a breath and like, be like, okay, I really want to lash out right now. And you know, maybe you write it out and you to have a quick lash out, but always come back to yourself and meet yourself with compassion. Otherwise you make the ego monster bigger, which is the part of us that gets so offended easily by rejection. Right.
53:57
Speaker C: I just had this thought as like, your soul picked a hell of a playground. You know, I was thinking about you and like, what I What I've come to know about you and understand about you. And it's just like, wow, you really. Your soul was like, yeah, let's build a community and. And immerse ourselves in. And set ourselves, you know, set us up to. Like, you couldn't have picked a better scenario for your growth, you know. And it made me think of the truth of that statement. Like, for each of us, it's like your soul picked a hell of a playground, you know, it's called Earth. And, you know, and it chose you and your body and the experiences that you're having and everything that you're navigating to help you heal and expand and become great as you are, you know, and it's like, whoa, that's what we signed up for. Holy.
54:50
Speaker B: Yeah.
54:50
Speaker C: Yeah.
54:50
Speaker B: And my ego hates it. My ego has so much anger towards whatever, like my soul or the powers that be. Because it's like, why did you have to make. At least the first 40 years of my life have been very challenging.
55:01
Speaker C: Yeah.
55:02
Speaker B: I have a feeling the second half of my life is going to be amazing. I really do. And I'm kind of hitting that point. Like, if I make it to 80, I'm great. And I'm turning 40 this year. So I want this next chapter to be the best chapter. And, you know, it beats having a. The first half your life being amazing and the second half being shitty. So I'd rather. I'd take the second half being amazing.
55:22
Speaker C: I kind of want to see with a cabin in the woods near a lake, with a lumberjack, you know.
55:27
Speaker B: Yeah.
55:27
Speaker C: Just like reading books and being chill and. And making good love and just being like, you know.
55:37
Speaker B: That'D be amazing.
55:38
Speaker C: Yeah.
55:38
Speaker B: And have another piece of property on that. On that same land where I can have a retreat center and people can come to me.
55:44
Speaker C: There you go.
55:46
Speaker B: Do lots of healing work.
55:47
Speaker C: There you go.
55:48
Speaker B: Healing. Yeah. Geez. And that's another thing. I'm tired of my stories. And that's a really good sign in. In shamanism, they say if a story is no longer growing, you corn stop telling it. Right. And like, that's where I'm at. Like, I'm tired of my trauma story. I'm tired of my family of origin story. I'm tired of telling my stories of pain and healing. And I'm like, so that's a good sign for me. I know that I'm turning a big corner right now, so. But yeah, I would say taking responsibility is the biggest one for me. Like, it's just, it's. It's essential because rejection sensitivity means that I'm. I have gunky filters. I'm putting everything through a filter of I'm going to be rejected. People don't like me, I'm abandoned, I'm alone, I'm not good enough. So I have to clean out my gunky filters. So that's a big part of it for me. So checking my assumptions out in reality, which again, yeah. Katy. Katy Perry.
56:37
Speaker A: Byron, Katie.
56:38
Speaker B: Byron, Katie. The work. Right. Those questions are really good, like, but authentic relating is how I use it. It's like, like the story I'm telling myself right now is this, is this true? Like, are you actually rejecting me because of this? Or whatever it might be. But getting curious curiosities is rooted in humility. And I think that's, that's a big piece. And then like using my imagination. I have a very wild imagination and I, I can do good with it and I can do harm with it. So I've had to learn how to like use my imagination for possibility. Like what could happen if I go to this event? Yeah, sure. All, all the gays might look at me and be like, you're weird. And they might reject me. Or I might have an amazing time and I might meet some new friends and I might meet other sober, neurodivergent people. You know, you never know what the universe has in store for you. So that's, that's been a big one. And then, you know, healing my abandonment wound, that's been the biggest thing because that everything was going through that filter. The abandonment wound for me was, I'm rejected. I'm not good enough. I'm all this, I'm all that. So healing that for me, for me. And for me that was all trauma work. It was inner child, family of origin shit that I had to work on. And now that I've done that, that's really helped me take the next step, which has been huge. And then, yeah, reframing rejection. So I have a mantra that I use when I'm experiencing rejection, which is I'm not everyone's cup of tea and I never will be. And I've had to learn how to become comfortable with people not liking me. And that's just, that's just it. I'm going to rub people the wrong way. And I. Especially when I'm authentic and I'm speaking my truth, I'm going to rub people the wrong way. And I feel like what I'm doing for them is I'm offering them a gift, right. To look at Themselves, look at their triggers, you know, do these sorts of things. So I try and not carry this ideology that I'm too much or I'm being too bold or too big or I'm speaking too much truth. It's like, no, I'm not. I'm not here to caretake people's emotions or their reactions to how I show up. It's like, I'm going to just be me. And that's their job, to take care of their emotions and their reactions of how I'm showing up.
58:36
Speaker A: Up.
58:36
Speaker B: Right. So, yeah, but it's not easy work. It's like, it's. This stuff takes a while. It's taken me five. Five years of intense work to get to some of these places, of. Of liberating myself from this. And I still got some more work to do. Right. But isn't that just life in itself? We're always, you know, improving and. Yeah. Any final thoughts?
58:59
Speaker C: No. This was. I mean, I have to go back and listen to this one. There's variants. There's a lot in here. Like, I'm. I was like, this felt like a therapy session for me.
59:09
Speaker B: Yeah. It's nice to come in and talk about this stuff. And it's, like, cool to think, like, five years ago we recorded on this topic. We should all, like, have like a little zoom hangout and watch that episode together. It would be pretty funny. I'd probably like.
59:23
Speaker C: Nope, I'm in. I'm in.
59:28
Speaker B: Funny. Well, thank you guys, as always, for coming along and sharing from your heart. Yeah. And thank you to our listener viewer for chiming in for another episode. And yeah, just Remembering again, this YouTube channel and podcast are listener and viewer supported. So if you are enjoying what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show. The link is in the show notes and you can also tap the thanks button. YouTube. And you can subscribe to early access on Apple. And you can get access to the episodes early if you wish. And we thank you in advance for your support and hopefully we'll see you at one of our sharing circles or our connection circles again. Heymansbrotherhood.com if you want to check it out. Much love, everybody.
1:00:19
Speaker C: Sa.