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How to Get AI to Recommend You as a Top Lender · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  Do you struggle to stand out online even though you've got great reviews,
• 0:03
  experience and a solid reputation? Well, you're not alone. As AI driven search becomes more of the
• 0:09
  norm, many mortgage professionals are finding themselves invisible. Just imagine for a moment if
• 0:14
  you could get recommended by AI instead of being ignored by it. What we're talking about is getting
• 0:20
  found in AI search today. You're listening to mortgage marketing radio where we help mortgage
• 0:25
  professionals close more loans by building a scalable modern brand leveraging a one to many
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  approach. My name is Jeff Zimffer, your host and former mortgage originator. Today on the show,
• 0:35
  we're diving into a crucial question, how can you train AI to recognize you as the go-to expert
• 0:41
  in your market and actually recommend you to clients? To help us answer that, we're joined today
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  by Katie Shive, longtime friend and a brand strategist who's on my short list of go-to subject matter
• 0:52
  experts when I want to learn how to create an authentic brand that cuts through the noise,
• 0:57
  but also how to tap into the modern marketing platforms like AI to help myself and other mortgage
• 1:03
  professionals stand out, build personal brands where they can get recommended by AI and the other
• 1:08
  search bots. But before we get into that, let's hit this week's win of the week and give a huge shout
• 1:13
  out to a my ageing classes member Tiffany Sachston. So Tiffany followed the coaching we provide and
• 1:19
  was contacting realtors for one of the classes in our platform that's turnkey and ready to go for
• 1:24
  you, the loan officer. It's YouTube for real estate. And so what happened next is as Tiffany was
• 1:29
  finding an agent in her local market that was doing well with YouTube, she decided to follow the plan
• 1:35
  and actually reach out and contact this agent and invite the agent to co-facilitate the YouTube
• 1:40
  for real estate agent's class in her local market. Now, of course, that realtor said yes and here's
• 1:45
  what's happened since that conversation turned into a referral relationship almost instantly.
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  So after the class, that agent starts sending Tiffany by her leads, but it didn't stop there.
• 1:56
  She's now hosted another YouTube class with that same agent and now Tiffany is invited to be part
• 2:03
  of that agent team and Tiffany is receiving referrals from that agent team now on a regular basis.
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  But it doesn't stop there. Tiffany already has a buyer under contract closing in January,
• 2:15
  2026 directly from this agent. And you know what? Now that realtor wants to leverage the platform
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  Tiffany has to co-host monthly YouTube classes and other classes to grow his team and put Tiffany
• 2:28
  in front of even more agents. So what's Tiffany doing? She's leveraging with the one-to-many approach.
• 2:33
  She's leading with value, scaling her reach in her personal brand and getting more conversations
• 2:38
  and less time, which leads to more referrals. And she's doing that all by simply following the
• 2:44
  my agent classes platform system. So if you want to stop chasing agents and to start attracting them
• 2:49
  by leading with value first classes, just like Tiffany, check the link in your show notes or you can
• 2:55
  go visit go.myaginclasses.com. You'll get a behind the scenes look here from others winning with the
• 3:01
  system and you'll have the option to book a call with me directly to learn more. All right. So back
• 3:06
  to the episode. In this conversation with Katie Shive, you're going to learn three key things.
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  Number one, how to craft a core entity statement that makes you more discoverable in AI search.
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  Number two, why consistency across platforms is no longer optional. And number three,
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  you'll hear the exact steps to follow to take one piece of content and repurpose it into a full
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  digital footprint that trains AI to favor you and possibly even recommend you as more consumers are
• 3:33
  using AI search to find mortgage professionals and real estate professionals in your local market.
• 3:39
  Oh, and there's one other thing you'll discover. You'll hear the story about how one law officer
• 3:43
  actually did land a deal just because chat you PT recommended him by name. So it's a great
• 3:49
  episode. Without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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  Katie Shive, welcome to the show. Hey, hey, thanks for having me.
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  Thanks for being here. Long time coming for this. I was thinking about you and I in our kind of
• 4:12
  history and I'm so appreciative and grateful for you and the edification you've provided for me
• 4:18
  over the years and the connection to people. And that's why I'm glad to bring you to the main stage,
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  if you will, to more people need to know about Katie Shive and what she does. I'm going to give you
• 4:29
  the AI version. No, my turn still. I'm going to give you the AI version. Seeing as we're going to
• 4:34
  talk about AI in a minute, who is Katie Shive? She's a brand strategist marketing expert who helps
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  mortgage professionals and other business owners build strong personal brands and use AI to create
• 4:45
  content that sounds like them. Agree? 100%. Yes, on that part. Yep.
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  Would you like to add anything? When you are, you know, when you talk a lot about AI and then
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  it's like you're putting it in the hot seat, you're like, I hope I know. Let's see. Well, this is
• 5:04
  it's a great opener because we're going to talk about training AI and I asked the question,
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  right? Who's Katie? And then it went on to say, you teach them how to use AI tools without
• 5:11
  sounding robotic, how to build their voice and visibility. You're a branding coach, AI marketing
• 5:16
  guide and your goals to help people sound like themselves and attract clients online. Yeah.
• 5:21
  Cool. Good job. Yes. I have all my late night hours of obsessively figuring this out.
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  Glad to know it's a working. That's fantastic. Okay. So is there anything you would want to
• 5:37
  fine tune on that? Do you think it's good to go out of the box? I would say it's good to go out
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  of the box. I mean, that's really what I have been working on refining that messaging. And that's
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  yeah, I love anything that's related to personal branding and AI. I love the mortgage space.
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  Do a lot of coaching, all of those things. So it says it more eloquently than I just
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  would reach up. I don't have it all memorized and perfectly polished, which is goes back to
• 6:03
  the authentic part of it. But yeah, I would say a very accurately describes what I do.
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  Well, seeing as we entered there with my use case, which is I use Chatubete to search and
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  Gemini. And I just put in one question, who is Katie Shive? I didn't give it any other context
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  besides that. So let's briefly then tease out this idea of why did Chatubete know who you
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  were and what you were all about? Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of talk about AI visibility,
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  right? I mean, we could go, we could get real nerdy really fast on SEO and Geo and AEO and,
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  you know, it's the alphabet soup. I have a six year old and a three year old. So we are singing
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  those songs. But, you know, when we talk about, you know, people just say, oh, I got to create
• 6:55
  content, you know, go, go the more content you create, the more findable you'll be, there,
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  there is probably truth to some of that. Yes. But then you want to also optimize your content,
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  just like, you know, when people spend thousands of dollars and hire agencies to optimize their SEO
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  and keywords and things like that. Now we're, you know, I say this in true, in trueness is we're not
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  just creating content for humans. We're now having to create content for robots. So when we create our
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  content, you really have like two audiences. So you, you need to make sure that your hooks are good
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  and that you're keeping people's attention, right? But AI could care less about their, AI doesn't
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  have an attention span. So now it's looking at your AI visibility of, do you have a core entity
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  statement? So what you read is my describer of who I am. I've worked on the backend to develop my
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  core entity statement, which if you don't know what that is, it's, do you know what a core entity
• 7:52
  statement is? No, I wanted you to expand on that. And then tell us, does that live somewhere?
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  Yeah. So a core entity statement is, it's really like that. It's just another word. It's like,
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  it's like your one sentence bio, right? So it's like Katie Shive is a Montana based, you know,
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  brand and AI visibility coach that helps loan officers blah blah blah blah blah. Right? So you think
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  about it. It's like, what's your name? What's your location? What's your experience? Who's your
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  audience? Right? So there's a couple components that make up to that. Now you can get really creative
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  because you don't have to say in the exact same formation across all of your different, you know,
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  bios. But if your Jeff, you know, Jeff Zimper on one and then maybe you're like Jeffery Zimper
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  on another and you're a mortgage advisor here and you're a lender here and you're a certified
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  you know mortgage planner here. So you as much as you can, you want to have a core statement.
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  So that AI, the LLMs when they're calling, they can easily recognize and build that out to your
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  your entity cluster, which is makes up all things you. So how do we build that online? Where does
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  that live in our social profiles or where? Yeah. So anywhere that you have control over your
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  bios. So I mean, the easy high hits are your LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, if you're on TikTok,
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  your company website, if you have your own, you know, personal website, things like your Zillow
• 9:23
  profile or your experience.com profile, your Google business profile. So any online profile that
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  could be findable is, you know, that you have a login and you have the ability to control. You
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  want to update that. So that's that's one piece and then there's other mechanics like, you know,
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  as you're writing content. So a really great way to start training LLMs is to be having long
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  form content. I love that long form content is coming back because it's not just that people are
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  suddenly wanting to read long form content, but it's a way to provide, you know, information to
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  LLMs to know who you are and you're training them essentially. So if you have a LinkedIn newsletter
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  or you're writing LinkedIn posts or maybe that's core or sub stack, there's a couple of mediums you
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  could use. But at the end of that, like your profiles are obviously going to be optimized,
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  but then another thing that you can do is at the bottom of each article you could have, I believe in
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  PR they call us a boilerplate. It's basically like that little bio paragraph at the bottom of your
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  article that's, you know, Jeff's infer is blah blah blah and it's it's kind of your three
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  different boilerplate. You're a little bio section there. Okay. So the first place we need to
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  train the AI to what to call the, what did you call it again? For entity statement. So I mean,
• 10:47
  that's that's kind of a technical term or at least how I've been learning it. But think about
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  it's just it's your one liner. It's the who are you? What do you do? Who do you serve? Where do you live?
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  We all most everybody that's listening to this already has that in some capacity. If you look at
• 11:02
  your company website or whatever. Now there's there's obviously ways that you can enhance that.
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  I mean, probably make it really succinct and very clear. But yeah, so you want to have your bio,
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  there's consistency and cohesion in your bio across all of your different platforms.
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  So it should say essentially the same thing across whatever profiles you have online.
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  Yeah, I mean, so here's an example. Like when I go into LinkedIn, for example, that exact sentence
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  isn't in my about me and my bio. How I get around that is like, well, my name is in my bio.
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  It's very clear at the top of my header, you know, Katie Shive. It's not Caitlin. It's not Kate.
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  It's Katie Shive. Everywhere is consistent is my name. Everywhere consistent is my head shot.
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  But then in the longer form, I make sure to include I'm in Callis Bell, Montana. And I help,
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  you know, loan officer as a mortgage mortgage professionals. So I take it's like bringing in some
• 11:59
  key words as well. So I want to clarify, SEO is not dead. But it's kind of pairing the deal.
• 12:08
  Well, speaking of SEO, I know, you know, Neil Patel, right?
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  Yes. So I saw Neil Patel's video the other day. You may have seen him use this phrase,
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  SEO, which is search everywhere optimization. Yes. It's like that is actually that is really
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  a brilliant descriptor because I think sometimes we leave it to Neil, right? And sometimes
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  you're like, man, the most simplest statement. Why is it feel like the most brilliant?
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  Because we can over jargon. We have so much jargon in our own industry too. I think sometimes
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  it's like you can't keep up with acronyms in terms. But yeah, it's search everywhere. And
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  GEO, I don't have a good G use for that. But yeah, it's basically LLM's large language models are
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  crawling the internet and everywhere that they can pull it. You want it optimized.
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  And it also goes to the point of that term of search everywhere optimization that that's what
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  consumers are doing today. At case in point, they're searching AI like we opened up with, but they're
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  also searching the social platforms as well, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, everything's
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  becoming kind of search driven at various levels. Maybe we're going to call it go everywhere
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  optimization for GEO. Trade mark that thing. Well, this whole thing of a positioning statement,
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  a core entity statement gets back to optimizing, you mentioned LinkedIn. I'm looking at you are
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  LinkedIn. So for those who are aware of this is like, you know, one of the kind of the best practices
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  is it's like, you know, who you kind of said this? Who are you? What do you do? What problem do you
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  solve? Something that affect? So your LinkedIn says brand and AI strategy is helping mortgage
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  pros talk like real humans, not templates. Well, that's very clear on who you are, what you do,
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  who you help and the problem that you solve. So if anything, if you're listening to this and
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  thinking about how do you optimize your profile, your bio, first of all, use AI to help you.
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  100%. What would you coach them on that alone? Yeah, I literally, I literally had a
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  loan officer reach out to me this morning and exactly this conversation. So now I'm excited
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  because I'm going to just send him the link to this podcast when it's done. I'd be like, here's
• 14:19
  the whole thing. But his question literally was, I just, I just put my name in, who is so and so
• 14:27
  and what does he do? And he goes, I was really shocked by the results or in his case, the lack there
• 14:33
  of despite how many reviews he has. And so he said, you know, do you have any recommendations for
• 14:39
  that? And that's literally what this conversation is about, right? Like AI is a moving target.
• 14:44
  It's a Wild West. I get Larry anytime. So he says they're an AI expert. Like unless you're actually
• 14:49
  working at, you know, open AI or cloud or Gemini, like it's hard to just say you're a true expert.
• 14:56
  I think it's really early at least. But there's so much to learn. And so yeah, that was the
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  exact advice to him. I said, okay, well, one, where you can optimize your profiles, that will,
• 15:09
  that will help. And like we're talking about, why would you not use AI to help with all of this?
• 15:16
  So one of my suggestions, if you're listening to this, I would say, you know, pull up your AI
• 15:21
  of choice. Maybe go even between the two, like two, to kind of compare the outputs. So pull up,
• 15:27
  you know, Gemini and, and or chat GPT. Personally, I'm loving cloud right now for, for B to see
• 15:35
  messaging and tone. Cloud has been really like rocking my socks off. But go into one of those,
• 15:43
  you know, platforms and ask, like, you know, I need help creating a GEO optimized, you know, bio,
• 15:52
  right? Start there. And again, you know, you can, my whole thing is like, I want to be able to
• 15:57
  have content that sounds human and personalized without having it just sound like, you know,
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  I want to be able to be creating content for both humans and robots. Not just me and so robotic
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  that humans are like, well, that was chat GPT and like, you have no ounce of care. Like you can,
• 16:15
  you can write things creatively that still hit those, those points that you're needing that hit.
• 16:20
  Okay. That's a nice segue into, we're going to put links to all your resources in the show.
• 16:25
  And that's by the way, your AI after hours podcast and newsletter, some other resources you have.
• 16:29
  But I'm going to pull this one from one of your emails that I received relevant to your newsletter,
• 16:35
  which is, are you using AI like a vending machine? What do you mean by that? What do you want to kind
• 16:42
  of help people be aware of? I think by default, especially as people are just getting into using AI,
• 16:53
  you know, they're, it's supposed to make our lives easier. We all claim that you're going to have
• 16:58
  leverage and efficiency. And what I hear in frustration a lot is that it's, they're spending more
• 17:04
  time refining the prompts than if they had just written it themselves. And so, you know, I would
• 17:11
  tell people listening. First of all, you know, you have to, excuse me, you have to play around and
• 17:18
  use it to kind of learn how it works. But in the context of a vending machine, a lot of times,
• 17:24
  you know, people will go in and say, you know, they're wanting to write a post. Give me three
• 17:29
  reasons why you should buy a home in Denver, Colorado today. Well, it's going to give you an output,
• 17:35
  yes, but anybody else in Denver that's wanting to create content, they might be using that same
• 17:41
  prompt or very similar because it's a question, right? We want to create content that is answering
• 17:47
  questions that real, a real audience might have. So without perfecting that, they're using it
• 17:55
  like a vending machine. It's like two quarters in, which is your, your prompt. And then you take
• 18:01
  whatever it spits out without actually putting, you know, we call it gain of information. So it's like,
• 18:08
  you can take the information that AI would give you, but then what is the information that you're
• 18:13
  going to be like, what's your personal angle on that? Right? So what's your unique story? So,
• 18:19
  hey, I might give you a frame. I always like to kind of treat my outputs as like 80% there. But I
• 18:26
  also am refining my prompts. Okay, so here's my personal story or here's my client's story. And I'll
• 18:33
  put my own two cents in. So it's not just the exact copy, pastropical, like it, it really is more
• 18:39
  a collaboration of it synthesizes my organization and my ideas. But then I put the final touches
• 18:45
  before posting anything. Let's get practical. And let's go deeper on this thread. We're talking
• 18:51
  about here, which is, you know, essentially, who doesn't want to get discovered by search, right?
• 18:59
  As consumers continue to lean into AI a little bit more for search or other platforms as well.
• 19:05
  But I want to get like really specific for people. Let's say a lot of visitors listening and
• 19:10
  they've heard of this whole concept of, you know, GEO AI related search. And we need to now, as you
• 19:16
  said earlier, we're creating content not just for people, but for robots AI platforms. You know,
• 19:22
  the thing I think, I don't know if you said this or I did from that slide deck we were working on,
• 19:25
  which is AI recommends versus ranks, right? It tends to recommend. And so what would be some core
• 19:32
  principles? How do we get started on getting recommended by AI? Yeah. I can give you some high
• 19:40
  level things, which we can talk about. And then I'll also kind of have a caveat is it's not perfect
• 19:46
  by any stretch of the imagination. And I'll get to my example in just a second. So high level,
• 19:53
  LLMs love authority. Like they're really, when they're recommending, they're going off of just
• 20:00
  straight context. Obviously, they've removed all emotion, all feelings and, you know, that,
• 20:05
  what they make you a human. So it's just, it's straight context. So they're looking at authority.
• 20:10
  If you ask, you know, who is the best loan advisor in, you know, Seattle, Washington,
• 20:16
  it's going to pull from actual facts, not just theory. So, you know, your, your reviews are huge.
• 20:25
  So anytime you guys can push reviews, that's really important. I know as loan officers,
• 20:30
  and just any, any person that collects reviews, we all say we need to be doing it. I would say now
• 20:36
  more than ever, you can't afford to not be asking for the reviews. Google is really a great source.
• 20:44
  LLMs do also pull in, you know, third party aggregators like your experience.coms and what have you.
• 20:50
  But having your reviews are great because those reviews are third party verified that somebody has,
• 20:58
  you know, their own unique account and they gave that review. It's different than if I just copy
• 21:03
  and pasted a review and posted it on my website because LLMs can't verify that that actually was
• 21:09
  from a, a real person. I could have made it up for all of those. And I'm sure some people do.
• 21:14
  So pushing your reviews, your clients to leave reviews is really great. And then, you know,
• 21:20
  creating content too. So as your, you know, I always tell people, my loan officers, I'm like,
• 21:27
  keep a list of the questions that you get asked. I think sometimes as loan officers, we get stuck
• 21:32
  in our head like, I don't want to write about that. Everybody's talked about that or it's really
• 21:36
  boring. Well, that, that is probably true. Everybody in your circle has, but your clients most likely
• 21:42
  have it and the people that are searching for you that maybe you've never talked to before
• 21:46
  haven't. So think about the types of questions that your real clients are asking you. I always say,
• 21:53
  keep a notes tab on your phone. Everybody has a notes tab on their phone. And if you get a question,
• 21:58
  write that down and then find ways to turn that into content. That specific question, how did you
• 22:04
  specifically help that client navigate that scenario or that topic? Now you don't just have,
• 22:12
  you know, that generic answer, but you also have your own personal response, which is, you know,
• 22:20
  that's generative. It's unique. So that's a, that's a couple of things. And yeah, just being,
• 22:26
  being consistent, creating content, making sure that you're training the LLMs, the caveat story
• 22:31
  that I was going to say is there was one loan officer that I was doing a webinar for on GEO.
• 22:39
  So I was like, well, this will be really fun. I did, I pulled a UJF and I Googled, or I searched
• 22:43
  for an AI ahead of time. And I was really stunned because this loan officer is very well known and has
• 22:51
  a lot of Google reviews. So I was like, there's no way she won't be number one. She was not number one.
• 22:58
  I was like, okay, what is going on here? And the person that outranked her had like 20%
• 23:06
  the amount of reviews that she had. This loan officer had like 165. And the loan officer that was
• 23:12
  number one had like 19. So it was like a huge discrepancy in terms of credibility. And so that's
• 23:19
  when I, you know, drilled down. And so if you're, if you're asking any of the AI platforms, who is
• 23:25
  so-and-so, and you know, you don't pop up as number one, I would encourage you to then reverse
• 23:30
  engineer and ask, okay, why did you propose the, why did you recommend this person, you know,
• 23:36
  and try to get some of that information. And that's exactly what I did with this one client.
• 23:41
  And it was like, well, this person has really good reviews. So I said, okay, who are, give me five
• 23:47
  others in this geographical zip code. And then the next person was that loan officer that I was
• 23:53
  trying to search for. So then I compared and I said, okay, this loan officer has 165 Google
• 24:00
  reviews. And this, the loan officer you recommended has 19. So why did you recommend her first if
• 24:06
  it's truly on reviews? And it came back and said, oh, it was the speed of which it was returned. And
• 24:11
  I was like, okay, I don't totally understand that. Like, you know, I don't know. So that's why I say
• 24:18
  that is a caveat because like, there's lots of like, here's best practices, but LLMs are still
• 24:23
  evolving all the time, very rapidly. So as much as we can like try to systematize, I'm going to have
• 24:29
  the best reviews and I'm going to have the best optimized profile in this and that there's still
• 24:34
  opportunities like chances that you might not be 100% recommended every time. And some of that's
• 24:39
  just going to be out of your control. Yes. Yeah, it does change. It'll change. I've done it as well.
• 24:44
  One day versus the next. Looking at realtors, for example, but it's interesting. It's your point
• 24:48
  about when you go deeper. It did pull up that other loan officer who did have more reviews. Hey,
• 24:52
  are you tired of cold calling realtors and feeling like you're getting nowhere with my agent classes?
• 24:57
  You don't have to chase agents anymore. We hand you a done-for-you system of ready-to-teach presentations,
• 25:03
  plug-and-play marketing, and even 200 producing agents to invite. So you can double your agent
• 25:08
  referrals in 90 days or less. Plus, you'll get weekly coaching and a community of loan officers
• 25:13
  sharing exactly what's working right now. Here's a quick win from one of our members.
• 25:18
  I joined it because I was tired of doing business the way that regular loan officers have been
• 25:22
  doing it in my market, which is just making the core calls every Monday and Friday,
• 25:27
  checking with real estate agents. I had done that for years and seemed like everybody was doing that.
• 25:32
  I needed something different and I wanted to find a way that I could work with the agents that I
• 25:36
  want to work with. I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience every month,
• 25:41
  every couple weeks, where I could find agents that were like-minded and that wanted to work with me
• 25:45
  as well. It's probably brought in, I'm just guessing here, but it's probably brought on in the
• 25:50
  three years I've been back with the program. It's probably brought on. It's probably say about
• 25:55
  $40 million in volume since then. It's led us some massive relationships. I wouldn't be able to
• 26:01
  do those things without this program. The value of these Friday calls are so incredibly valuable
• 26:08
  for all of us. I get upset if I miss it on Friday. The cost of this program is worth it just
• 26:14
  because of these Friday calls that we're on, where we help coach each other. We're just here to help
• 26:18
  each other add value to our real estate partners. Are you ready to stop chasing and start attracting
• 26:22
  agent referrals on demand? Book a call at mortgagemarketing.pro or hit the link in the show notes.
• 26:28
  Now back to our show. By the way, if you're listening right now, that's an exercise for you to do.
• 26:32
  Again, I would say like, think of AI as your assistant, your digital assistant. Ask questions.
• 26:38
  You just heard Katie talk about the conversation she's having. Get curious. Go deeper.
• 26:42
  I remember I was doing some research on this Realtor I heard about from Tom Ferry,
• 26:48
  who I pull up her testimonial here real quick. She got four buyer clients from Chat GBT recommending
• 26:54
  her. Then she also had a listing where Chat GBT recommended her as an agent familiar with VA
• 27:00
  loan assumptions. That is very niche, very specific. So what's the takeaway there, you think?
• 27:09
  My guess is she and I'm going on a limb with very limited information, so I'm not even sure
• 27:14
  if you were referring to, but if I were to make some speculations, I would imagine that she's in
• 27:19
  some capacity had a conversation or a breadcrumb somewhere online using that. So when somebody goes
• 27:26
  in searches because I've had two clients now that have directly been referred by Chat GBT as well
• 27:33
  with no other entry point. Well, these are loan officers. So the one known after. So I kind of
• 27:40
  get into the examples of them as well, but they, yeah, so they were referred on Chat GBT, but my
• 27:46
  guess is there was some sort of, you know, specificity. Maybe she had a reel or maybe she had a video
• 27:53
  or a LinkedIn. There's something with the VA assumable loans. That is very specific. And unless
• 27:58
  your whole website, everything you do is only on this, it's probably playing from somewhere one time.
• 28:05
  I have seen the two clients that I was talking about just recently. They both work for the same
• 28:11
  company and their company's digital footprint is very optimized. So I suspect that when they,
• 28:20
  you know, they were asking for this exact example was down payment assistance. The first one was
• 28:25
  a down payment assistance program. And it gave a list of loan officers. My guess is that it was saying,
• 28:34
  you know, hey, you're in this city or this, this area. And it recommended because here's a thing.
• 28:40
  AI or LLMs, they want to refer you the best possible answer, the truest and the best
• 28:48
  possible answer. So if you go in and say, who is the best loan officer, it's going to say, like,
• 28:54
  and I did that, that's what I started with that, the review, the loan officer, I was just telling you
• 28:58
  about with all the reviews, because I wanted to do this as an example. So I was like, who is the
• 29:02
  best loan officer? And it came back and I was like, well, that's a big question because there's
• 29:06
  over three, you know, however many thousands of loan officers are in the country, are you, like,
• 29:11
  we need to drill down more. So that's when I said, you know, who is the best loan officer in this
• 29:16
  zip code? Right. So it's going to try to give you the best match for your question. So it's not
• 29:23
  going to give you, you know, a down payment assistance program for New York when you're living in Nevada.
• 29:29
  Right. So it's probably, I'm guessing it's probably knowing, like, hey, your phone is in this
• 29:35
  area and you're asking and, you know, or maybe she gave questions. I did ask for screenshots and
• 29:40
  she did the client did give screenshots of like her exact prompting. And so the second, this is a
• 29:47
  cool story. It's the second client I was referring to. He's also the same company, same geographical
• 29:53
  area and a client had a higher a higher rate from a competitor and they were looking for a lower rate.
• 29:59
  So I don't know the exact question that they typed in, but it was something like, you know, how can
• 30:04
  I look at getting a lower interest rate? And this client's bank was recommended and his name was
• 30:11
  at the top of the one, but he didn't just, the client didn't just take that recommendation on AI
• 30:18
  at face value. The cool part is that client went over to LinkedIn, which actually shocked me,
• 30:25
  but went to LinkedIn to look up this loan officer to see if this loan officer had, like,
• 30:30
  recent and frequent activity on LinkedIn. So cool part is I had been coaching this loan officer
• 30:36
  for six months. Hey, you need to be on LinkedIn. You need to be posting, you know, all of these
• 30:40
  things. And the client had seen that this loan officer was posting about market updates and
• 30:46
  different things called the client or the loan officer and he closed the loan. He saved the deal
• 30:53
  and closed the loan. So in this specific instance, he has a 100% direct like this lead came from
• 30:59
  chat GPT and I closed the loan. I was like, that's really cool and not common. So is the answer today
• 31:07
  that we do need to be at some level everywhere? To go everywhere. Go everywhere. Yeah, you know,
• 31:15
  because you know how people for four years and as myself as well would say, like, you can't be good
• 31:20
  across all platforms, right? You need to pick one to two or ish, right? So you can be really good.
• 31:25
  But now with AI, you know, looking at all the places, like I said earlier, search everywhere
• 31:30
  optimization. That's in the real world, right? It's so I have so much empathy. I don't know if
• 31:38
  empathy is the right word, but I have so much for loan officers because, you know, they really have
• 31:44
  the hard job of having to do sales and having to make it rain and foster relationships and save
• 31:49
  the deal and manage their teams and grow their business and be digital influencers that are showing
• 31:55
  everywhere and it's a lot. I am not one to suggest that you need to create content on every single
• 32:03
  platform. Like I think you do need to be a lot of places and you need to be in front of as many
• 32:09
  people as you can, but to the point where it's not going to detract you from actually doing business
• 32:15
  too, right? Like you can't just be a TikTok influencer and on Instagram. Like you still need to be
• 32:20
  originating and prospecting and nurturing your database and calling your your realtors and doing
• 32:25
  classes and things like that. So I mean, going back to what what you're brilliant at with helping with
• 32:31
  teaching agent classes, that's a great thing. So if you're going to teach an agent class as an
• 32:36
  example, then maybe you go post something on an event bright that can, you know, be crawlable or
• 32:42
  you're going to go put it as, you know, a LinkedIn event or maybe a Facebook event. So anywhere that
• 32:49
  you can promote and bring attention to what you're already doing in your business routine,
• 32:55
  is just extra juice for the squeeze. So if you're going to be teaching classes, go throw it up on
• 33:00
  on event, right? If you're already having the messaging that you're going to put in an email.
• 33:04
  So anywhere that's like private, like an email or in a private community or a behind a paywall,
• 33:10
  yeah, I obviously can't access. But if you're going to go send that email out, would it be worth the
• 33:17
  opportunity for the five extra minutes or whatever it takes to go put that into a LinkedIn, you know,
• 33:23
  event or an event bright where it can crawl it? So it's those little things of like how can you make
• 33:29
  slight tweaks to incorporate AI visibility into the process that you're already doing in addition to
• 33:36
  what you're doing on on social media? Wow, okay. So that's right. What I was saying, I mean, another
• 33:42
  thing I know you and I have talked about this offline, but I was reading a recent article on
• 33:47
  RFs and we could put the link in the show notes as well. But it had scrubbed the top 100 US
• 33:56
  sourced sites by chat GPT. So it scrubbed like 9.6 million chat GPT queries and it extrapolated
• 34:05
  the top 100 US based websites. And from that, you know, Reddit is number one. So Reddit is a great
• 34:13
  a great place. But when you when you pull out the targets and the Amazon's and the people magazines
• 34:19
  which we're never going to have an audience with or control over, linked in was number 74. And so
• 34:26
  that's one of the things that really caught my attention to largely focus my strategy, at least
• 34:31
  right now for content on LinkedIn because there's a lot of visibility and LLM's look at LinkedIn
• 34:39
  because your like your profile is already vetted and verified. So I used to write all of my blog posts
• 34:47
  and put them on my own website, which I still do. But actually, I'm pushing a lot of my content
• 34:52
  strategy first over to LinkedIn because there's more credibility as a host in it on LinkedIn than
• 34:58
  my own website because my own websites, you know, smaller and I just developed it.
• 35:04
  Interesting. Interesting. For any loan officers that are like, well, I don't have a big fancy
• 35:08
  website. And I'm not the big mega producer with this huge personal brand footprint everywhere.
• 35:14
  I love what is happening with AI because you don't have to. You can have a strategy where you're
• 35:20
  showing up consistently, you know, in YouTube videos or if you don't like doing video,
• 35:25
  then consider a newsletter on LinkedIn or consider an article where again, you can take
• 35:31
  what are those questions that your clients are most likely asking and you can start with AI to help,
• 35:37
  you know, give me a list of, you know, the top 20 questions that my ex, you know, demographic
• 35:44
  might be asking. And then you can start having conversations and creating content around that as well.
• 35:51
  Yeah, speaking of questions, by the way, touching back on Reddit here for a second,
• 35:56
  if you and I both as well, a lot of late-night hours doing this research and all that. So,
• 36:01
  you know this very well, but this is for the listener. The way one of the ways to leverage
• 36:04
  Reddit easily is to get content, the questions, to understand what real buyers and sellers
• 36:11
  are worried about. So one of the things you can do today is go to Google and you can go to Google and
• 36:16
  type in moving to your city Reddit or whenever the first time home buyer Reddit, there's all these
• 36:23
  subreddits, right? And so you can start on Google because that will bring up the Reddit,
• 36:27
  the subreddit searches. And then you'll jump into those communities that are on Reddit that you'll
• 36:32
  get this list of, because everybody's like, well, how do I create content? What are, this is one way
• 36:36
  to easily ask you can use answer to the public and all that. But this is actually, of course,
• 36:40
  real people, real time, fresh. And that might be a good place to start as well. What do you think?
• 36:44
  I love that. I haven't done that specific query, but I just typed it in as you are talking,
• 36:51
  and so I'm definitely gonna check this out. I mean, all of my... Well, you're in Montana,
• 36:58
  so who's moving there? I'm in rural Montana. So, yes, who is moving there? We have more elk and
• 37:05
  wild life than we have people. We like to keep it that way, though. Right. Yeah, please don't move
• 37:12
  over there. Yeah, I think that's a great, that is a great place to start. I did create a custom
• 37:20
  GPT, and I can give you the link from that as well. It's like a Reddit scrubber. It's really simple.
• 37:27
  Yeah, but it's a GPT that helps, yeah, with some Reddit stuff. But I think understanding the
• 37:34
  voice of your customer, right? So go, you can go into Reddit and just those sub-communities.
• 37:39
  Again, one of the things that I do is I'll go into Reddit, and then I'll just type in, like,
• 37:45
  here is an example, when the 50-year-long conversation went viral in our world a couple weeks ago,
• 37:51
  everybody was talking about it. And so I was like, okay, well, I know what the loan officers and
• 37:56
  mortgage executives are saying, but I want to know, like, what are the clients and the home buyers
• 38:02
  really actually thinking about this? So I went over to Reddit, and there's a couple core subreddits,
• 38:08
  like mortgage and real estate and a couple. So I went into the mortgage one, and then there's
• 38:13
  subreddits for, you know, for some home buyers and what have you. And so I just put it in the
• 38:17
  search word, like, you know, 50-year mortgage, and it brings up a boatload of conversations.
• 38:22
  So I clicked on one that had, I don't know, over 6,000 comments because it was trending.
• 38:28
  So then I took that URL for that specific Reddit thread, and then I threw that into my AI GPT,
• 38:36
  and I said, please scrub this thread. Now, I don't think it's scrubbed all 6,000, but I just said,
• 38:42
  can you pull out, you know, the top five comments, ones, you know, ones emotional,
• 38:46
  ones supportive, ones against it? And so I used that to help me filter down some real true
• 38:54
  voice of the voice of your customer sentiment. And so other than it just as I was writing my
• 39:04
  response, or I think I was writing a LinkedIn post about it, I was able to pull in like direct
• 39:09
  quotes, you know, so like, hey, this person is, you know, in this market. And again, it's not like I
• 39:14
  know them. So I was pulling direct, you know, feedback of, hey, this person says it's a really good
• 39:19
  idea. And here's why or this person says it's terrible. And here's why. So again, I think, yeah,
• 39:26
  you can look at your long for or go over to Google perplexity as another tool that I really like.
• 39:31
  And there's a free version that you can start with, and you can go do some searches there as well.
• 39:38
  But yeah, your example of whatever the long form tale question is, think of the question,
• 39:43
  and then just type Reddit after it. And that's a really simple place to start.
• 39:46
  Let's kind of give them one last thing to chew on in terms of, you know, we've talked about
• 39:53
  getting discovered, recommended an AI search, the type of content, where to go to look, to learn,
• 40:00
  consumer sentiment, and get ideas. How about this framework? You have a framework for turning one
• 40:05
  piece of core content into multiple pieces. Do you want to share that? Yeah. Yeah. You know, everything
• 40:11
  that I'm building and everything that I share and I do really comes out of like me learning it
• 40:16
  also. So a lot of what I build is like starts with my pain point. And then I'm like, well, if I
• 40:21
  have this pain point, other people probably have this pain point. So this was a couple months ago,
• 40:26
  I was out for a walk. And I was just like feeling so overwhelmed, which I'm sure most of our listeners
• 40:32
  have felt at times like, oh, what do I create for content? And this is just like a, it's a machine.
• 40:37
  And so I, I'm a huge fan of voice voice talking with my AI tools. So I was out for a walk and I
• 40:45
  just activated my, my, I think it was chat GPT at the time, my voice chat. And I was just talking
• 40:52
  to it. Like here's where I'm feeling stuck in my head or stuck in my business and blah blah. So
• 40:56
  work through this, you know, kind of chat idea in my head. And then I said, hey, I bet if I'm
• 41:03
  struggling with this, other people probably have similar frustrations, can you help me craft a
• 41:10
  podcast topic around this? Because I do an AI podcast under 10 minutes. And so we're, I was
• 41:18
  flushing out that idea. And then I said, okay, can you write the script at conversational page,
• 41:23
  a pace under 10, you know, 10 minutes or less? So it got there. And then I said, okay, well,
• 41:28
  can you now repurpose that and write the show notes in the show title for me? Great. So then it
• 41:34
  did that. And then I said, okay, well, can you turn this podcast idea into an email that I can
• 41:43
  send to my database? I don't want to tell them what the whole podcast is about, but I want to have
• 41:48
  a strong hook and a strong call to action to go listen to the podcast. So then again, I'm doing
• 41:53
  this all while I'm walking because it's it's re it's reading back to me what it's saying. So then
• 41:58
  we worked through the email and then I said, can you help me create? I think I did a Instagram
• 42:05
  real script for it as well. So in a 30 minute walk, by the time I got back to my house and I opened
• 42:12
  chat GPT on my desktop, I had worked through the idea for a podcast episode with show notes,
• 42:19
  a title framework for my email and a social media post. And again, I still had to go assemble all
• 42:25
  of the content like I still had to record my podcast and I still had to host it and you know,
• 42:30
  all of the things, but the heavy lifting for the ideas I was able to do while I was out walking.
• 42:37
  And so you how I like to repurpose content is you start with an idea, right? You start with
• 42:43
  what's your core idea? Maybe that's a client objection that you had. Maybe it's a deal you lost.
• 42:49
  Maybe it's a celebration for that that client that finally went through credit repair and they
• 42:54
  just got, you know, the keys to their house. So whatever your idea is, I like to work through
• 43:00
  that with my AI tools. And I usually start with a long form piece of content. So whether that's
• 43:08
  blog post or LinkedIn article. So I write that as kind of my foundational piece. And then I will
• 43:14
  continue in that same chat thread because all of the knowledge is in that chat. And then I'll say,
• 43:20
  can you repurpose this into an email? Make it more story driven. So each piece of content,
• 43:27
  I'm completely changing because how you deliver the content and on what platform is going to vary
• 43:32
  in how it's received. But the core history of the conversation and really developing the idea
• 43:39
  is in that same chat. And then I just ask it to refine and repurpose until I get it in the output
• 43:45
  that sounds like me and something I would actually say. And that's you having a conversation with
• 43:51
  the voice assistant, the actual live interaction versus the dictation. I do both. I've really,
• 43:59
  it depends on kind of my day. Sometimes, you know, it's hard for me, like I try to get my stuff out
• 44:05
  on Saturday night. And most nine out of 10 times, it's always I put my kids down. It's 10 o'clock
• 44:10
  at night. And I was like, crap, I got to get my content out. So what I've been pushing myself to do
• 44:14
  is earlier in the week, start thinking through what's my big content idea for the week. And what do I
• 44:20
  want to share? So I'll open a new chat history in my AI platform. And maybe I'll start audio voice
• 44:27
  texting if I'm driving, you know, on Bluetooth or sometimes if I'm at my desk, I'll type it.
• 44:33
  I've just found that we brain, we word vomit so much better verbally than if we're typing.
• 44:40
  So that's just what works for me. It might not for other people. But I'll start kind of
• 44:45
  formulating my idea earlier in the week. And I'll kind of pop back into that chat if I have something
• 44:51
  else to add to it. So that when I go to actually create the full content package, I've already kind
• 44:58
  of primed the chat history. So I'm not starting at ground zero. Yeah, I love that. That's a really
• 45:05
  productive use of multitasking with time. You know, they say you can't multitask, but it sounds
• 45:09
  to me like that's a pretty good. Here's the, I kind of shocked myself last night. And I'm loving
• 45:15
  Claude for different things too. I will say the Claude voice texting is a little more clunky.
• 45:21
  It's not as good like it seems to pick up interruptions like audio interruptions easier. But anyways,
• 45:27
  it's performing better for creative copy. So anyways, last night I was interviewing myself because
• 45:32
  I was like trying to get through some messaging and I was like, I am my ideal avatar. So here's
• 45:37
  my frustration. Now help me put on this avatar. Anyways, I'm not joking you Jeff. I spent two hours
• 45:43
  voice texting my AI because my kids were gone last night. And I got two loads of laundry done. I took
• 45:50
  a bath and I made my bed all while having a two hour conversation with my AI. And I literally
• 45:58
  worked through so much stuff. And I was like, I got done and I called the bed. I was like,
• 46:03
  not only did I just do business stuff, but I like got two loads of laundry done. I took a bath. I
• 46:09
  all of these things and it was great because it was hyper productive and I felt like I was
• 46:15
  lasting. So people listening, what is your one big takeaway? Think about this. What's the one or two
• 46:20
  ideas? I think that framework right there is a lot for people to just the lights go on. I know it
• 46:25
  does for me because think about it. You know, anywhere you're going somewhere, now you're in your car
• 46:31
  driving, walking, whatever it is, doing the thing. Why not start to get in the habit and the cycle
• 46:37
  of exercising those muscles, right? Well, and it's exactly what you just said. It's a habit. I think,
• 46:43
  you know, I always, I always try to look at my whole day, my whole life like everything is content.
• 46:50
  Now, of course, I'm not going to document everything. One, that's wildly boring. But two,
• 46:57
  it's time consuming and it's like not engaging, but everything. So if you think about every client
• 47:02
  email, every conversation, whether you're talking to a wheelchair, you're talking to a business
• 47:06
  partner, even if you're having a conversation with your kids or your partner or whoever,
• 47:11
  there's ways that you can, like, how can I share this with my audience? Like, what is an idea
• 47:17
  here? What is something? And for me, like, probably everybody listening, we're all busy. Whether you
• 47:22
  have kids or not, like, whatever sees life is busy. So I, I try to optimize my pockets of time.
• 47:30
  So like, every day I drive to pick up my daughter from school. So it's like, I've got 15 minutes
• 47:34
  instead of just being on the, in the car listening to music. I'll activate my voice text with
• 47:39
  my AI. And I'm like, here's a client objection. I just had help me write a content piece about this
• 47:45
  or whatever. So rather than, I guess my big takeaway is like, rather than trying to start really big
• 47:53
  and going all in, what's one habit that you can develop with AI today, right? So like, maybe
• 48:00
  that's voice activation. Maybe that's just starting to learn. Maybe you have no context for this.
• 48:05
  And this all feels overwhelming. Great. Who are some voices that are ahead of you in this journey?
• 48:10
  Right? That's the reason I started the AI after hours podcast. It's one episode a week. It's 10
• 48:15
  minutes or less focusing on one habit, one idea. Try to like, simplify that. So start somewhere and
• 48:24
  then like build habits around that and just using your AI practice. Try to break it. Search yourself.
• 48:32
  I mean, wherever you're wanting to focus, you won't tackle AI and all of it. There's no way. So
• 48:38
  you have to start somewhere where you have the most critical need in your business or your life.
• 48:43
  And then, you know, if there's somebody ahead of you, go contact them, reach out to them, follow
• 48:48
  them whatever, but start. Just start. I mean, that's great advice. It's a new skill that we need to
• 48:54
  learn. And yeah, the way to integrate it into your daily life. Okay. So we have shared a ton. This
• 49:00
  has been incredibly valuable. You just mentioned your podcast, the AI after hours. We're going to
• 49:04
  link that in the show notes as well as we'll put a link in there for the brand builder solution,
• 49:11
  consulting. Tell us real briefly about that. What is that? Yeah. So that's like, you know,
• 49:17
  we talk about creating. I like the term AI slop, right? If you go in and say three reasons why I
• 49:23
  should move to Denver, you're going to get the output that's going to sound like, oh, chat GPT
• 49:27
  wrote that. So what I do through the brand builder exercises, I work with loan officers, I do an
• 49:33
  interview with you. I ask you a ton of questions about your business. And then I build out a brand
• 49:39
  book that is it's I call it your brand brain. It essentially takes together what is your origin
• 49:45
  story and who are your client profiles and everything that we can learn about your brand.
• 49:50
  Put that to words and frameworks. And then now you have this really awesome document that you
• 49:56
  can load into any AI platform. So it knows who you are. You're feeding it like proactively the
• 50:04
  information. I've been doing this for almost a year now, but it re like solidified for me is
• 50:11
  about a month ago, my chat GPT account. I was merging it and I lost all of my history.
• 50:19
  And so literally in about three seconds, everything in the last two and a half years, the memory
• 50:24
  that it knew about me was wiped. And so all of the sudden, I was like, oh, I have to basically
• 50:29
  start from scratch. The cool part is I was able to take my brand book that I already had.
• 50:36
  And now I was able to re upload it to chat GPT, update my custom assistance. And I was back in
• 50:42
  business by the end of the week, you know, rougher take because I was now feeding it information
• 50:48
  about me versus relying on its memory that I had fed over time. And that's what my brand builder
• 50:54
  book is. All right. And we're going to link that in the show notes as well. The brand builder book.
• 50:58
  That's an excellent exercise to go through. I can attest to that as well. A lot of self-discovery.
• 51:03
  All right. So Katie, this has been awesome. Long time coming. A lot of content here.
• 51:09
  Everybody listening right now. I know it was like chomping at the bit. They probably learned more
• 51:13
  in this one session than anything else else they've been exposed to thus far for AI. So please,
• 51:18
  if you're listening, reach out. By the way, do you have any evidence? We're linked in. We'll put a
• 51:21
  link in. I'm on Instagram. That's more like my running and my food and my kids. But LinkedIn is
• 51:28
  where I love to hang out. So come follow me on LinkedIn. DMs always open to conversations.
• 51:34
  That's what I was going to say. So if you're listening to this, well, look, check the show notes link
• 51:37
  for her LinkedIn. And then DM her and let her know the one big takeaway that you got from today's
• 51:42
  episode. Katie Shive, thank you so much for being here. Cool. Thanks for having me, Jeff.
• 51:47
  All right, listeners, you know what to do. Appreciate you. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 51:51
  Okay, that's it for today's episode. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you about my
• 51:55
  agent classes, your proven system to double your agent referrals in just 90 days. Imagine never
• 52:01
  having to co-call again, instead building real lasting relationships with top producing agents
• 52:06
  who want to send you business with done for you presentations, marketing automation, weekly
• 52:11
  coaching. It's all designed to make growing your business easier and fun. So if you're ready to
• 52:17
  take control of your agent referrals and grow your income, visit mortgagemarketing.pro or
• 52:22
  check the link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to check out the success
• 52:25
  stories from other mortgage pros who've already seen incredible results. Thanks for listening,
• 52:29
  and I'll see you on the next episode.