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Creating Resilience in Times of Crisis and Uncertainty with Clint Adams · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's, Roxanne Derhodge.
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I'm authenticating with Roxanne.
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Thanks for tuning in again this week.
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Today, I have someone from very far away.
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I think the last second person on the podcast from Australia, and his name is Clint Adams
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Clint Thanks so much for spending the time.
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It's very, very early there.
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It's like 6:30 in the morning, so I really appreciate him taking the time.
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To spend the time with us.
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So thanks so much for coming on.
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Thanks for having me.
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Really appreciate it.
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Let me tell you a little bit about Clint and, his, business is called Blufe Lane Projects.
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He does a leadership development and around the areas of resiliency, and he also works in
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schools and works with programs related for teachers and children around the issues of
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resilience.
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Last year, he released a book called The Blue Flame, which I would love for him to tell you a
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little bit more about.
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So, Clint, tell me, how did you kinda get into doing this kind of work?
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Like, what's kind of your story that's you kind of took this path and are doing this kind of
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work today.
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Yeah.
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Look, I I guess a lot of it started when I got really interested at high school in,
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psychology.
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I, back then, silence of the lambs was a pretty big movie around the place and, you know,
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serial killers and and profiling was was kind of pretty cool and and new to to the world, I
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guess.
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So, yeah, I got interested in in in that side of of psychology at the time, so I'm showing my
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age here, but that was at late eighties.
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And, I I was at university, and they didn't have specific forensic psychology courses.
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So you kinda have to do a broadest suites.
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I did a science degree, mainly in psychology, but also did pharmacology.
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So there was a bit of a, understanding of how the drugs and and stuff work on the brain and
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then that kind of thing.
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So, anyway, I originally finished my degree, went to join the police force here in in
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Victoria.
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So Victoria, the police forces here are all run by the state.
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So it's pretty much the same police force running the whole state, and each state has
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their own police force.
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Each state then would also have their own kind of forensic departments and that kind of stuff.
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So my intent when I first joined was to get into that kinda squirt.
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I won't bore you with details, but over time, I kinda got more interested in the counseling
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side of, of true psychology like you're with the traditional sense sitting across from
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somebody who's got problems and and trying to help them.
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So I did some more studies around that in in rehabilitation counseling, and then I
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eventually left the police force to go pursue a role as a true counselor working in
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rehabilitation and work with people who've had physical injuries who had problems, you know,
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adapting to that and and all that from a psychological perspective.
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Over time, I kinda was doing a lot of police work for the police, even though I worked for a
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private company, they didn't approach means in, hey, Clint, why don't you come back and work
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for us?
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The police, like, working with you because your next police officer says you talk to blah blah
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blah blah blah blah.
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So that's kinda how I've got back into the police And then over time, I just kind of
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worked on how it also helped the police force develop programs for our offices, you know,
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keeping themselves safe interacting better with the people, not getting, you know, overusing
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their force when, you know, there's tactical disengagement, I guess, is probably the the
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right term for it.
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So, you know, in the moment they don't get overwrought and they don't, you know, use too
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much excessive force and stuff.
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I mean, we saw what happened with Black Lives Matter stuff not that long ago where where the
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offices overstepped the mark and and it, you know, became a massive thing.
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So part of what I was doing was working with individuals who were having problems then also
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working and developing programs.
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And that's kind of where my program development thoughts came into it a bit.
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Then I completely left, went and worked in change management, doing, people in culture or
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HR work in big companies, I did that for a few years, and and things kinda changed for me
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where I was working for a health care provider.
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We were a hospital, had lots of little tiny community centers, health community centers in
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in one of our regional areas down in Victoria.
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And that gave me insight part of the the executive team.
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It gave me insight and and, access to a lot of the information of the services we were
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providing, but it was quite alarming that you know, we had these young people really young
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eleven, twelve year olds who were on antidepressants, you know, kind of suicide
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watch with our community teams at Sykesville working with them and there's really, really
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young people who are going through stuff that they probably shouldn't to go through.
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You know, no one hopefully would wanna go through it anyway, but ultimately, you know,
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11:12, you shouldn't be worrying about that.
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You should be out playing with your friends and stuff like that.
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Anyway, obviously being a police officer and having been to people's houses in the past,
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obviously, they didn't call you for fun when you were police officer usually going there for
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something a bit more urgent.
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And, you know, you see you see these homes where young kids are disadvantaged and their
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parents aren't exactly good role models or their drug addicts and all this kind of stuff.
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So you kind of put 2 and 2 together that, you know, some of these kids that are getting these
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services are also the same kids that you're seeing in these houses.
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So it got me thinking back then about what I could do to help with what I've seen with
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adults, because now I'm working with adults in a in a HR space, but I'm seeing a lot of them
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are still struggling with health.
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A lot of them, when you when you do the research, and I'm sure you've done plenty of
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this, you know, you can look like people that have had childhood trauma have more risk of of
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having problems later on.
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And so for me, it was about what I'm because what I was doing at the workplace was, you
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know, reasonably effective and when we're getting things going for for people that are,
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you know, in their forties, fifties, whatever, and in a workplace.
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And now I'm thinking, well, what they were all kids once.
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What can we do earlier on?
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And and that kind of stuff.
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And so that's kinda how the whole school program development piece started.
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I then started working on that.
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And and and then kind of pitching it towards, politicians to try and look at getting funding
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as a pilot for a program and anyway, again, I won't bore you with too much detail, but, you
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know, fast forward, I then made a decision that, you know, politicians aren't exactly
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subject matter experts on this stuff.
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Maybe that's not the best way for me to go about doing this.
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And and I decided, last year just for COVID, mind you, because my book so I wrote the book
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based around the school program and how I want to write it as a story of of someone who's
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struggling, who does choose to commit suicide, but they want people to, know about that.
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And then I'll bring myself in as a character helping the school deal with this person's
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death, but then also helping the school then deal with, well, how do we stop this from
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happening?
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So it's kind of two parts to it.
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Obviously, there's there's the grievance part of it, the grief part of it, sorry, and then
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there's obviously, the the change management, what are we gonna do different, how are we
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gonna change the school, how are we gonna help our students, blah blah blah blah.
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So I kinda use all that background to, to write the story.
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And and the intent last year when a book came out, which was at the end of Feb, was that off
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the air day 2 weeks later, it just went boom.
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So I had a few things kinda lined up, to do consulting work with with a few organizations
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and and actually working with other counselors who are probably quite junior and and helping
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them do tactical things.
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What I find when when I did my own course many, many years ago, I found, you know, you do the
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counseling courses and And sometimes you still don't feel like you're prepared enough.
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Because what I find with academic stuff is it's not always that practical and and academics.
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No.
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No disrespect to them.
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They don't normally think about, you know, they kind of focus on their work and and and they
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write really great stuff.
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And trust me, I've used a lot of it, but It's not always the most practical for the person on
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the ground or the person that, you know, goes and works with other people as counselors or
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volunteers in you know, lifeline and all those kinds of things.
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So for me, it's about, I I kinda use the methodology of focusing a lot on what the body
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and the brain and and that's all doing, but how that relates to doing things, activities.
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Like, I used the example of the other day with, you know, why do people who have a dog live
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longer?
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Well, you know, the dogs do this and your oxytocin levels go up.
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So, you know, what other things can you do around that?
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I've got a brand new puppy, my daughter's puppies with us at the moment.
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And, you know, you walk down streets, and you just see people looking at a puppy, and they
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change their expression.
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They line up and they talk all funny to the dog.
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And, you know, they move their heads around, and there's all that just one little thing
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changes that mood.
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And so understanding even just those little things about our bodies and our brains and
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interactions, how we can kinda set things up to to be more positive, to be more resilient, and
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and build on on on all those things.
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So, yeah, that's kind of the the nutshell version of what I'm doing.
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So let's talk about translation then.
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Right?
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So, obviously, resilience is an area that I talk a lot about And, you know, of course, in
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this time, you know, everybody's talking about mental health and mental well-being and things
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like that.
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In your in your story and from what you've seen.
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So I my history is like, for instance, my very first position was with the Metro Toronto
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Police here in Toronto.
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Where I was I respond to victims of crime, and I'll tell you the very first I'll never fig of
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course, it's my first, call.
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Right?
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And I'm not the youth officer.
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I'm on a team that's responding to the victims of crime, and I remember it was my first night
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shift.
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And what do we get?
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We get a suicide call.
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And I'm like, this is me.
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I'm starting, and I've got a seasoned partner, of course.
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Let's not put the new person with, you know, So I go with.
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And then the police, they're trying to clear the scene.
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Right?
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They're like, so they would clean up the scene.
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It was called victim services.
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I'm sure I would assume you cabinet Australia as well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And, I remember seeing in my partner at that time.
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I said, are you gonna kinda go around the block a bit?
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Here I am.
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I'm trained.
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And the reality was it, you know, was a it was like, wow.
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This is this is real.
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This is, you know, boots on the ground.
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And I remember, you know, impact of what happened here.
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I'm in my twenties, and I'm responding to this, and I'm trained for this.
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And the reality was like, woah.
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What am I this is me for a split second.
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What am I going into before I, my I clicked into, like, kind of my psychotherapist hat?
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And, you know, like, talking about those practical skills, I think, is very, very
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important.
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So when you kind of looked at the, like you said, the research and you've you've been
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you've been on the ground.
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You've seen people in, at, you know, obviously at the lowest states.
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Generally, people don't like to see police officers, right?
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What kind of applications did you talk about, or did you put in the book for people to kind
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of think about because I know a lot of people are worried with kids being home and those
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types of things right now.
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Yeah.
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Look, I run 2 prayers.
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So if I go back to my police days where I'm I'm a cop and I'm thinking like a cop or I'm trying
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to train the police officers around dealing with someone with mental health problems.
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Because, you know, we do come across them as police officers.
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You know, sometimes people have got mental problems, uh-uh, are doing things that that are
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scary.
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So look, part of it is I explained to people a little bit about, you know, what's happening
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when someone is in that state.
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So you'd know all this, but, you know, when when someone's got an amygdala driven kind of
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response, so that's that fight or flight or I'm feeling angry and you know, fear and anger kind
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of go hand in hand with that.
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What what's happening in the body is, and and this is why I kind of go down this path of
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explaining that first of kinda work out the practicalities of it.
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But when that person's in that state, as you know, the blood starts to drain from the brain
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and starts going to the muscles, get them ready for fight or flight, you got a less oxygenated
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brain in the first place.
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Demetal is also very small in comparison to the other parts of of the brain that that can kinda
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help in this situation.
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So when I'm talking to officers and explaining the things that they wanna do is one as I say,
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okay, there you're talking with this person.
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And it's a conversation.
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I use this thing called the Dialog model, which comes out of a book called crucial
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conversations.
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And what's happening is the way a conversation basically comes is, like, at the moment, we're
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talking, throwing information into what they call the blue pool.
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You know, we're interacting.
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We're both feeling relatively comfortable.
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I'm feeling pretty comfortable.
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Think you're too worried about your safety right there.
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So if there's no safety aspects with with the conversation, then everything kind of flows.
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The moment someone becomes, you know, there's a safety issue for them.
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So like you said, if a police officer comes towards someone, now they're feeling like, I'm
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in and they get even more in that space.
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And so there's conversations that's happening in their own head at the same time, and and
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it's it's also been how they become feeling and then how they act upon that.
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So this is all happening all in one big hit when when you're an officer or anybody coming
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to somebody who's in this state, so for me, I'm I'm trying to say to them, what we wanna do is
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do something that can have them thinking with what I call blue brand, which is the prefrontal
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cortex where we can come up with solutions, we can come up with different options.
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But you, as a officer, wanna create safety for this person.
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I wanna make them feel safe to say, Hey, we're not here to do anything nasty to you.
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We're here trying to do this.
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So there's there's 2 aspects to it.
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Why do you wanna create the safety?
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And 2, you wanna try and get them thinking with that part of the brain so they can focus on the
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future and stuff like that.
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I was reading one one of the articles you put on thing about management with fear and stuff
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like that.
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Same kind of principles.
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You've got a kinda so two things have to happen.
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The officer needs to stay calm because when people are angry, they come in at you and they
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same things, and they might be threatening you.
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They might have weapons on them.
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So all these things are also on you as an officer.
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Are you gonna kind of keep yourself calm?
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So of the things I do to them is say, well, you don't want the blood going from here into your
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muscles and stuff either.
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So you wanna ask yourself some high level questions that your blood brain needs to answer
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by doing that you're forcing the blood to pump back up into your own brain, keeping yourself
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calm, and then you can do the same with the person in front of you saying, Okay.
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Let's talk about this.
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Let's understand.
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You're you're trying to give yourself some space.
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Give yourself some time to get them talking, get them thinking, ask them questions how do
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you think this is gonna end up?
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So if I have to think about how this is gonna end up rather than you coming in aggressive as
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an officer, you know, you can inflame the situation pretty quickly by doing that, you
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don't wanna do that.
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You wanna say, you gotta keep calm first as an officer.
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Yes.
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See, people under threat, you might have to escalate things, but if there's no real threat
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there, you know, and then then the other side of the coin is you also have a partner usually,
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and they and they can work with you.
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If I see the Clint's going a little bit overboard, I can also step in I can come clink
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down and I can work to do that.
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So, you know, that's kind of a lot of the basic initiatives of of understanding that when that
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blood's going away from the brain, we wanna do things to try and get them back up there and
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get them thinking with that bigger part of the brain, which needs that blood So it reverses
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the gears of what I call red rail or the flight or flight, kind of, you know, initiative that
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that takes place and it happens so quick as you know.
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And so you know, they're they're kind of some of the practical things that that I I focus on
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in the book around people understanding some of those things.
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And and then you can also use that for you know, building that resilience of of when
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people know they're going into red of how they can keep themselves out of red and into blue as
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as I call it so that, again, it's that they go, oh, here I am getting angry.
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I'm talking to myself.
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I wanna calm myself down.
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Why am I worried about, you know, someone cutting me off in a in a car or or that kind of
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stuff.
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Because some people, you know, I'm I'm one of those people who are a bit of a road ranger
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myself.
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I'll get angry when people do it.
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It's not gonna really concentrate.
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It's not always easy to do, but, you know, you you'll learn it.
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You get better at it.
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And as we get older, amazingly, that's the part of the brain that actually, you know, when
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we're younger, we we we don't have fully formed, part of the brain yet.
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So, you know, younger people tend to do not silly at things, but more often they can be in
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the moment kind of things and and, unfortunately, a lot of crimes get committed
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that way, as well.
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So really, like, I mean, because, like, at the prefrontal cortex, I think the actual
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development age where it actually is at maturities around 2526.
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So if you kind of think about it
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Correct.
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Correct.
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And a lot of, I live here in Niagara Falls.
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I'm sure every, you know, your listeners would probably, where that is, like, of all the
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places.
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But, unfortunately, I would say we had, I would say, almost like a bit of epidemic of, teen
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suicides for a bit in our area.
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And, you know, it was either suicide or overdoses.
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So you see that a lot a lot more people are struggling.
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And, like, to your point, right, like, unfortunately, and, you know, with a lot of
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that, you know, what we know, what you would have seen as a police officer, what I've seen
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as a psychotherapist in my lifetime is that Not everybody had perfect up duggies.
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I would always like to say, you know, I don't know about you guys, but most of us, most
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people are there.
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And, okay, so now what?
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But when you see the atrocities, unfortunately, that a lot of people go through, you see, I'm
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sure you see here in North America's in Australia, unfortunately.
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And, you know, if kids are exposed to the ex quite young, we know what we know is that the
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the neurons in their brains get rewired.
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And, you know, they're not they're not easier to calm because those neural pathways haven't
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developed the same, say somebody that kinda had the safety of a firm home.
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And, unfortunately, those are the kids that are more than likely to go on and develop kind of
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mental health concerns.
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And sometimes in systems like schools, they're not teachers are not equipped.
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W would you agree with that?
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Let's talk a little bit.
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Totally agree.
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With some of those programs that you've developed for schools because I'm curious to
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kind of you know, how you how you kind of went about doing it and how it's been received,
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yeah, Australia.
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Look, like I said, A bulk of my my work has been done with adults.
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And so when I'm I'm getting to people, when I run my sessions, the first one is information
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and and and get them to think about how their brains work, how they develop habits when I was
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dealing with people with PTSD.
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So I use a lot of that stuff when I'm working with with my programs around, you you might not
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be in a PTSD state right now, but, you know, if things happen, this kind of some things you can
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do for yourself, some things you can develop yourself, asking yourself some questions, and
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that kind of stuff.
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But when I run sessions for for these adults at the school level, work level, you know, we're
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talking about, stigma of mental health, you know, people feeling uncomfortable telling
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their boss telling their peers, all this kind of stuff.
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And the reason for that is that, you know, I talked about the dialogue model.
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The reason for that is someone has any safety issue about bringing anything up, the
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conversation won't happen because they'll go to silence or they get angry, silence, or
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violence.
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So again, you know, fight or flight kicks in.
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And and and there's there's a common theme through all this.
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When I'm running leadership stuff, I use certain tools that clearly show that people
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that are stacking fear or anger, tend to be worse managers, tend to have more health
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issues, all this kind of stuff.
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So what what we're trying to do is is kind of get them to be okay and understand that, yes,
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they have fear and anger issues, so to speak.
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But at the same time, what can we do to develop those?
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How do we, you know, those kinds of things?
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So so when when I'm focusing on that with adults, I kind of rewind all the way back and
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go, well, how do we change some of those things?
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We can't stop trauma.
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The thing about, trauma is, you know, we talk about the ones that are struggling.
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There's a lot of people, as you said, who've had trauma and they come out the other side and
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they've grown from it and they've developed.
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So we wanna go, how how did they do it?
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You know, when when I talk to, to people that that have struggled and and then they come out
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of it, there's always the same thing.
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And the the point is that they go, look, I was focusing on whatever the issue is or you know,
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and it drags me down and I think about it again.
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And then it drags me down.
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I feel sad.
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I feel angry.
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I feel whatever I feel.
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Again, it's a mignola driven emotions because that's where emotional center is right.
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But the thing that they all say is there's a point where they've changed.
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Something just whatever it is gets them to a point where they go, switch.
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And I said, I'm not gonna put up with this anymore.
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Talk to people who've had domestic violence in their lives, and there's a point where, you
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know, they leave the person, they can't leave the person, but then something happens where
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they just go, you know what?
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I've gotta do something, and then they change.
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And then funny enough, when they change that focus on where they wanna get to what they
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wanna do, things work for them, and and and they can make those changes.
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And then, you know, one little step at a time, they kinda start pushing away.
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And instead of so it's an interruption.
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So part of when I'm doing true counseling stuff is about telling people, look, if you've got a
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habit of thinking a certain way.
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And PTDs are good example because you've got people who've maybe had a great childhood, and
21:30
they had one really bad experience, like a police had a gun pointed at him, and he really
21:34
struggled with that.
21:35
And he, he not only struggled with what could have happened, but he then struggled with how
21:39
he was being received or how he thought people would deceive him because he's this macho cop,
21:44
you know, always been the the rock and all this stuff.
21:47
And now he's crying in a blubbering mess.
21:48
So, you know, the embarrassment and the shame that comes with that also became a problem for
21:53
him.
21:53
So for me, it was about getting him to change ways for that his focus is on here.
21:57
It's taking me down.
21:58
I feel bad.
21:59
I feel sad.
22:00
And so, you know, he's constantly thinking that up.
22:02
And and as you know, those neurons and a wiring and firing together, creating a habit for him.
22:06
So what I wanna do is go, hang on.
22:07
We're gonna interrupt that.
22:08
And this is where the same principle comes in around the mental health care, talking to
22:11
people saying, okay.
22:12
When that happens, all I want you to do is is is just do a thought story.
22:16
You're doing analysis work now.
22:18
So analysis work uses that part of the brain, the bigger part again, So it interrupts what
22:23
was normally happening.
22:24
So anything that interrupts and changes your focus even a little bit is gonna slowly loosen
22:28
that kind of neurons wiring and firing.
22:31
So, you know, when they understand those principles, I'm saying, hey, there's many ways
22:34
to the top of this mountain.
22:35
You can kind of find different ways to do that interruption.
22:38
I even use stupid examples.
22:39
Like, you know, when you when that thought pops in your head, just wiggle your toes.
22:42
And then, you know, it's kind of a stupid thing to do, but it interrupts it it creates a funny
22:47
aspect to it.
22:48
Right.
22:48
And
22:49
you're changing those things.
22:51
Exactly.
22:51
And then like I said, many things can do that.
22:53
You know, some people doodle and draw things.
22:56
And all I'm trying to do is get them to understand when you change that wiring and
23:00
firing a little bit and then begin over time, more and more and more, eventually, it won't be
23:05
that habit you don't automatically go to that bad place.
23:07
You can actually go to a different place, even a slightly different place to start with, then
23:11
a slightly better place after that, and you're starting to create some some really good, ways
23:17
of breaking that pattern for yourself.
23:19
And so same with, you know, people the great thing is you the best time to to people is when
23:23
they aren't really struggling.
23:24
You know what I mean?
23:25
So for me, you know, a big part of of what I do with the school program is about saying, not
23:29
all these kids are struggling.
23:31
We wanna create things that enhance like like we do with physical health.
23:35
Right?
23:35
We know about cardio.
23:37
We know about, weight training.
23:40
We know about nutrition.
23:41
We know there's gyms, there's personal trainers, but when you talk about mental
23:45
health, the answer is, ah, if you're struggling going to see a counselor, where's all the pre
23:51
proactive work that we're doing at a school level, where's us developing programs to say,
23:56
hey, do you know how your brains work?
23:58
Do you know that if you, you know, what are all these things that we could be doing to enhance
24:03
our our overall health, not just physical or mental?
24:06
It's it's it's intertwined, as you know, you know, if you go for a run, your brain feels
24:11
better about things and your mental health's good and you're in better space or whatever
24:14
those things are or, you know, you go for where you're looking at something pretty, all these
24:18
things enhance a whole human experience.
24:22
So for me, it's about really working on what or what helps people?
24:26
Do they understand more about it?
24:28
What other things can lift your oxytocin?
24:29
If you're not a dog lover, well, then it's maybe a cat or you like going and working with
24:34
you know, goats or something silly, but, you know, again, there's lots of things we can do
24:39
and people don't know enough about how their body and brains work to actually go and find
24:44
those things.
24:45
Yeah.
24:45
And and also, you know, I think if anything in this time in 2020 has force people to slow,
24:52
which has not which either escalated issues or it's forced people to really come, you know,
24:58
have, you know, come to that moment to say, wow.
25:01
I I don't know what to do with myself.
25:03
Like, okay.
25:04
I can't see my friends.
25:05
I can't go shopping.
25:06
I can't go to dinner.
25:07
I can't do all you can't go on vacation, dreaming on getting to, you know, seeing a
25:11
beach again, you know, lucky for where you are.
25:15
If I showed you outside, it's very white right now.
25:17
You know, I'm very jealous of
25:18
all that
25:20
stuff.
25:20
So I think you know, what has happened is, you know, I think it's people are either taking the
25:27
time to recognize how externally motivated they are Right?
25:31
It's forcing them, to get more internal, which has been disturbing for a lot more people in
25:37
that escalations around mental health.
25:39
Is it or things like that, or it really has forced people to recognize, woah, there's a
25:44
need for me to enhance this muscle.
25:48
Because Mhmm.
25:48
I thought I was good with this, but in fact, I realized when I slow, I don't like this.
25:54
You know, so you get I don't know.
25:56
We've seen a lot a lot.
25:57
The mental health concerns have obviously escalated because of a lot of disconnection and
26:02
and stuff like that.
26:02
And how much that we're actually realizing that we, we don't invest in the internal world that
26:07
we have.
26:08
We because we're so externally driven.
26:10
I'm sure you're probably Mhmm.
26:12
In Australia as we are here as well.
26:15
Oh, absolutely.
26:16
And and this is also, like, what we I was talking to guys today about materialistic
26:21
things.
26:21
And we would say, you know, and again, use the brain of why, you know, people wanna go buy
26:25
more stuff or wanna wear the right labels or, you know, it's it's not call and act, but it's
26:30
it's all about wanting to feel accepted by a group.
26:33
If if you're, you know, thinking, oh, I'm the poor person.
26:36
I can't afford whatever brand it is Gucci or or whatever, and and other people are wearing
26:41
that.
26:41
You don't you don't feel that they don't feel part of it.
26:44
And the and the the fear of that rejection is such a key piece.
26:47
And, you know, that's why people buy more, and they think it's gonna help them.
26:50
But, you know, the the way the brain works is the anticipation of getting something cool is
26:56
actually better than they're actually getting it.
26:57
So now they get it.
26:58
They've anticipated it's awesome.
27:00
Then they get it, and it's not satisfying because it really it's just a thing, right,
27:04
Whereas if you think about relationships and and the connections that you have, it keeps
27:09
giving.
27:09
It doesn't cost you anything.
27:10
It's just your time other than, you know, enhancing those things and and interacting with
27:14
people and learning from people.
27:16
And I think when people actually, to your point, go inside, they go, wow.
27:20
I can't go buy anything now and no one's gonna see me walking around with this new clothes on.
27:25
So I don't get that big buzz that I normally get out of it.
27:28
So, yeah, diff different, reward systems, I guess, is is probably where where we're
27:33
sitting.
27:34
And and, yeah, you're right.
27:35
I think, you know, as we kind of think about that, and then enhance how do I enhance that
27:39
muscle?
27:40
How do I, or how do I also suppress the the the amygdala?
27:44
Because we we want that to go down and we want the other stuff to go up.
27:47
So understanding some of those things and then going, okay.
27:50
Now here's a pathway or or here's some things I can think about doing or or or and and for me,
27:54
it's about creating an inquisitiveness for for people to go out and find out.
27:58
So when I'm running these sessions, I, you know, people come to me afterwards and go, I
28:02
don't know anything about that about my brain and how I think it.
28:05
So it's about, you know, creating a bit of a buzz around go and find out.
28:08
I wrote an article not long ago.
28:10
I called it the unconsciously incompetent parent.
28:13
And so, you know, it's not about saying we're totally unconscious, but a lot of them are
28:17
around mental health and how they enhance that.
28:19
So they're unconsciously incompetent.
28:21
And then when I run the session, trying to make them consciously incompetent so they go, woah,
28:25
I'd like to be better for my kids or my grandkids.
28:28
I need to go find out more about this.
28:30
I need to read stuff.
28:31
I mean, the way I wrote my book too, I've got a holy peculiar art coaster book.
28:34
I'm not the expert on everything in this.
28:36
This is me using you know, the some of the greats that have written great books around,
28:40
you know, showed dispensers stuff and and that kind of thing as well.
28:43
I just give them bits of information and make a if you wanna know more, go and read that book
28:48
and find out more.
28:49
And, you know, that's kind of what what I'm, really not pushing, but that that's where I'm
28:53
heading to, getting people at least inquisitive and going, oh, wow.
28:56
Okay.
28:57
I didn't know much about mindfulness or or why do those things work or, you know, what part of
29:02
the brains be activated when I'm doing this and why do dogs have such a good effect on people
29:07
and what is helping other people have such a great effect volunteering and doing things.
29:11
And, you know, you, I was reading your bio and, you know, you've done a lot of this stuff
29:15
volunteering and all these things over the years.
29:17
And, you know, I'm sure when you come out the other end, like you have, you you you you know,
29:23
there's a richer apistry of, you know, feel empty when you've done those kinds of things
29:26
and and understanding some of those things is so important for people, and it's about,
29:32
bringing it to them and and letting them understand it.
29:35
You don't wanna have to go through COVID to go, oh, wow.
29:38
I don't really like being ice And, you know, we we we kind of sometimes we don't want to
29:42
experience some of those things.
29:43
We'd rather read about it and try and make sure that we're if it does happen to us, we're we're
29:48
equipped we can do other things we can connect with to people in other ways.
29:52
And and, you know, having this technology, at least helps with some of those, because we were
29:57
a bit the same in lockdown, not as bad as as other countries, but we were in lockdown here
30:01
for a month or so, and we weren't able to see my son for 11 months.
30:04
He's only an hour and a bit flied away.
30:06
So we caught up with him before Christmas, so that was great.
30:09
But again, you know, you kind of make do with what you've got, but also try to to, like,
30:15
generate that a little bit of enthusiasm and and connecting with people.
30:18
And and, you know, a lot of people did that.
30:20
So I'm sure Zoom's been high up in their shares.
30:23
Yes.
30:23
Hence, why it's always it's it's always trouble to get on.
30:27
So this is all really great information.
30:30
I know you and I live in this world.
30:31
We standards, but there's a lot of people that would listen to this podcast or and they'd say,
30:37
you know, I you know, there's a lot of people struggling plan to put it frankly.
30:40
So if if you're if you have someone listening to this podcast today and they're saying, you
30:44
know what?
30:45
You know, buddy, you don't get what how hard it is.
30:48
Right?
30:48
Like, what kind of simple guidance would you give them just to get them started if if
30:54
they're kind of in that like, what what could they do?
30:58
Look, when they've worked with anybody that's gone and sought counseling, you know, they're
31:02
actually there knowing that they have a problem.
31:05
And and I guess part of of what I would say to somebody that doesn't go out and find someone,
31:10
but if then if you know you're struggling, The important thing is to ask some questions of
31:14
yourself to go, well, am I happy with this?
31:17
Most people will say, no.
31:18
I'm not happy feeling this way, and I don't wanna feel this way.
31:21
So so acknowledging some of that gets you at least doing some analytical work.
31:25
Again, I'm using the analytical part of the brain to say, What how am I feeling about life?
31:30
Like you said, people have got time on their hands right now.
31:32
People can actually sit and go inside, and some people probably gain a lot out of doing this.
31:37
But for me, it's about doing some true self analysis work around where you're at now where
31:44
you'd like to be.
31:44
When you're focusing on a future state, you're actually using, again, the blue brain, and
31:48
you're focusing on a future state and you're focusing on solutions.
31:51
There's many ways to the top of the mountain, as I said.
31:53
Right?
31:54
Like, you know, there's different I'm not aligned to any particular type of psychology
31:59
theorist because they all can work to a degree.
32:02
It's about what allows you to shift from that red to the blue.
32:06
So some people find religion, some people find fitness anything that changes that focus will
32:11
work for you, but you've gotta understand, or you gotta at least get to a point where you
32:15
acknowledge that I do wanna change where I'm at.
32:18
If I just stay here and I focus on what I don't have, I'll keep getting that.
32:23
Let's focus on what you want, not what you don't have or, you know, the lack part you're
32:28
focusing on a future state using a different part of the brain to come up with solutions.
32:32
What can I do differently if I don't if I'm not happy here, where do I want to be and and what
32:38
can I do to at least start?
32:39
That first step becomes that switch to sick of this, wanna get there.
32:44
And so part of that would be the first thing I would do, it's not about, you know, Clint
32:48
coming to preach to you that you need to change anything, but if you wanna change something,
32:52
you gotta make some like, you know what it's like with counseling.
32:55
Right?
32:56
If if you're dealing with a client who doesn't acknowledge it and doesn't they're there
33:00
because the parents are brought in there for something like that, you know, he's an
33:03
intervention.
33:04
Clinton needs go and help him.
33:05
So he doesn't wanna be there.
33:07
He or she.
33:09
And, you know, it's a it's a much harder task because, a, they're not acknowledging they've
33:13
got a problem.
33:14
They don't feel great, but they don't acknowledge problem, you know, and so it's it's
33:18
not gonna have an effect until that person makes a decision.
33:21
No matter what a counselor does, no matter who's helping someone.
33:25
If they don't wanna shift that focus, you're getting nowhere.
33:30
And so part of what you just ask there is about getting them to do at least think about where
33:35
they're at.
33:35
Think about what they'd like to have, and then things can start to happen for them because
33:39
they need to change that So it is a different part of the brain.
33:41
If they keep using the amygdala brain, takes them back to where they are.
33:45
They think about all the stuff that happened to them.
33:48
Life's not fair.
33:49
You know, Things happen to my ancestors, people focus on that.
33:53
I'm not saying it's a bad thing that people aren't treated that way, but if you've got that
33:56
mindset and nothing changes nothing will change for you.
34:00
When Nelson Mandela came out of prison many, many years ago now, you know, he'd been in
34:05
there for 27 years, and his big comment when he came out was he had check his hatred at the
34:09
door because he said he he was angry.
34:11
He hated what had happened to him.
34:13
You know, he was obviously treated badly, 27 years in prison for something pretty the way it
34:18
was.
34:18
Anyway, he said if he had it come out that same person in prison, he wouldn't have had the
34:22
effect he had as a leader because he he wouldn't have been able forgive.
34:25
He wouldn't have been able to move on and and and he clearly did move on changed a lot of
34:30
things for Saturday.
34:30
Unfortunately, they've gone backwards since he's passed, but You know, you know, they're
34:35
they're just the type of things.
34:36
And and the more you read about people that have been able to change things, even though
34:39
things have happened to them and hate people or so sorry, people have done nasty things to them
34:44
or their families or taking people away from them, they have to kinda be okay with
34:49
themselves first.
34:50
So if they hold under hatred, they actually hurt themselves.
34:53
And so same kind of principles around understanding what you wanna change, how you
34:57
wanna change it.
34:58
And there's many ways to change it, because there's so many good books out there.
35:01
I don't think enough people access them, and that's the problem, unfortunately, I mean, I I
35:06
you'll, like me, probably read a lot if you're on your second book already.
35:10
So, yourself, and it's about just getting people asking questions, going out and
35:16
listening to stuff is great podcast.
35:17
I'm listening to heap more stuff now in in podcast.
35:20
Like like this one where I'm listening to what other people have coming off.
35:23
Oh, wow, I hadn't thought of that or, you know, there's no true expert that knows everything.
35:27
We all know a little bit about stuff and our experience helps us with certain things, but
35:31
then I'll pick up things and go, wow, okay.
35:33
And now I can see the practicalities of using that and and you're just enhancing your own
35:37
education, I guess, and and then trying to, like, the work you do is pretty similar to me.
35:42
We're trying to help people But how do we do that?
35:44
And there's many ways to do that.
35:46
And whatever connects with them, the more they listen to these kinds of things and talk to
35:49
someone else, they go, oh, I hadn't thought of that.
35:51
Let's go have a look.
35:52
You know, to me, inquisitiveness, getting consciously incompetent is a good thing.
35:57
You need to know that you know no stuff.
35:59
So let's go find out You
36:00
can't go back.
36:01
You can't go back once you've kinda learned it and then you think it will work.
36:03
Yeah.
36:04
You kinda let it know.
36:05
Yeah.
36:05
Exactly.
36:06
You kinda learn.
36:08
So if people are wanting to connect with you, if they wanna get a copy of the book or,
36:13
you
36:13
know, those types of things, where where can they get a whole living?
36:17
So that's the book for lighting the blue flame.
36:20
It is out on on most kind of platforms, Amazon, and all the rest.
36:24
It is with a British publisher.
36:27
So it is a little bit of time to get a physical copy.
36:29
Obviously, Kindle on Amazon, you can get a lot quicker and that kind of stuff.
36:34
I also I'll just add a new website, which I'm in the process of finishing.
36:37
So that'll that'll be www.blueflameprojects.com.au.
36:43
It is out there, but I've still gotta do some things to secure it and all that kind of stuff.
36:46
I'm not selling anything on there anyway, so people can still look at it if they can find
36:49
it.
36:50
But, Yeah.
36:51
So that's probably the the easiest way to connect with me.
36:54
K.
36:54
Well, thanks so much for your time.
36:56
So what am I taking
36:57
away that?
36:58
You know, I think the basic things is like, we all, I think, and, you know, we're here to
37:04
learn, right, and to have lived a life where you've been through nothing.
37:07
I don't know that I know anybody, and I often joke around that if anybody's met anybody
37:12
that's been not been through anything, I need to meet those those people because we all do
37:16
things, and that's where our life lessons comes from.
37:19
And we have a brain in our body.
37:21
Get educated about it.
37:23
And like Clint talked about, when I talked to my little ones, you know, I talk a little bit
37:29
about, you know, I call the prefrontal cortex, the boss, and If the boss is away from work too
37:35
long and there's a there's crisis, which is in the middle, I call it the Christmas tree, but
37:39
the Christmas tree gets hung up.
37:41
And then, you know, the surge goes through your body.
37:44
At some point, you have to say that the boss come back to work, and that's how I break it
37:47
down of when I I deal with little ones.
37:49
So you gotta think about it.
37:51
We all are we all get into those states.
37:53
We all get run down.
37:54
We all get depleted, and we all have things going on.
37:57
So to recognize that any little step that you take routinely.
38:01
After a while, what happens is you build that internal emotional muscle to Clint's point, and
38:06
then your body says, oh, I can go for a walk.
38:09
Oh, I can read a book, or I can talk to a friend instead of thinking that I'm just gonna
38:14
stay in bed today, and maybe I'm not gonna get out again yet again.
38:17
Because once you create different buckets, then the body expects you to to go in and maybe try
38:23
a different bucket.
38:24
If there's one bucket, the body and the brain is gonna go back to that one bucket over and
38:28
over again.
38:29
So challenge yourself.
38:30
Try something small, and it doesn't have to be something huge.
38:34
So again, thanks so much, Clint, for anyone.
38:37
Thank you.
38:38
You're welcome.
38:39
For anyone needing, information, I've just started a, 4 week, life, relationship coaching
38:47
program on my book.
38:48
You can go to roxanderhodge.comforward/course and just sign up.
38:53
So thanks again, and, we'll talk to you next week.
38:57
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
39:02
healthy change.
39:03
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
39:10
rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
39:14
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.