Latest / The Retail Podcast / Secrets Behind Famous Retail Success! Two Customers: Human + AI, 6% Checkout Lift, 21k Weekly Signal

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Secrets Behind Famous Retail Success! Two Customers: Human + AI, 6% Checkout Lift, 21k Weekly Signal · The Retail Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome back to another fantastic episode of The
• 0:03
  Retail Podcast. And this week we're going into
• 0:06
  the wonderful world of Actually. To be fair, rather than spoil
• 0:10
  it, I always love the guests that talk about what they did
• 0:12
  because I'll do a hash job of describing what you do, Julie.
• 0:17
  I've read about what you do, who you do it for, and I think once
• 0:20
  you start talking, everyone will recognise the brand and
• 0:23
  obviously you have a pivotal role in helping that brand grow
• 0:28
  across the region. So, Julia, welcome to the show.
• 0:40
  Yes. So I think El Shep, if I say El
• 0:44
  Shep, that will probably not say too much to your podcast
• 0:47
  listeners, but you will probably know our owner's curries.
• 0:51
  So we are basically curries, but based in the Nordics.
• 0:55
  So we are the Vikings of the curries based in Norway, Sweden,
• 1:01
  Denmark and Finland, selling the best electronics to our nation.
• 1:05
  So we have the company with the biggest market share and I'm
• 1:08
  director of e-commerce, so I'm trying to keep it there.
• 1:12
  That's fantastic. This is Curiosity.
• 1:15
  There's medium art Saturn come into your region.
• 1:18
  You know, they tried Alex, but we actually pushed them away.
• 1:21
  They were in Sweden for eight years.
• 1:24
  They tried to kick us out, but El Giganten, they just pushed
• 1:28
  too hard. So Media Mart had to leave the
• 1:30
  market. All right.
• 1:32
  Well, OK, interesting. Because they've just been
• 1:35
  acquired or gone into a partnership with jd.com.
• 1:37
  Anyway, we're not going to talk about them.
• 1:39
  OK, not spend time on that but. Yeah, I've noticed.
• 1:43
  I've, I've been reading about your profile.
• 1:45
  I've been reading about some of the things that you've said.
• 1:49
  And one of the things that I read about it, you said that
• 1:51
  Norway is about to undergo its biggest e-commerce revolution
• 1:55
  since the dawn of the Internet, but the you're not worried of
• 1:58
  that because of your people. So what I'm really curious about
• 2:02
  what are the specific, if you like, mindsets, qualities that
• 2:07
  you feel that you have from a people perspective, Like if we
• 2:11
  start with the people and then we can sort of take it from
• 2:14
  there. But yeah, I'm curious on your
• 2:16
  opinion. Yes, not because you know, AI is
• 2:19
  everywhere. I don't think you can go to any
• 2:21
  discussion about technology or what is going around in
• 2:23
  e-commerce without being scared by virtual assistants taking
• 2:27
  over our websites, becoming obsolete and of course AI taking
• 2:31
  also our jobs period. But when you look into this in
• 2:35
  more detail, the AI assistant, they will also need to shop
• 2:38
  somewhere, they need to find the information somewhere.
• 2:41
  So you have to have that catalogue of product and
• 2:45
  understand even more about who is the best, provide the service
• 2:49
  for the end customer. Because also virtual assistant,
• 2:51
  they have the end customer best interest in mind.
• 2:55
  Otherwise, they have failed in their mission.
• 2:57
  So when you have the people like I have, luckily in my team who
• 3:03
  are really both, you know, experts in the customer journey,
• 3:08
  very passionate about data, always curious, never satisfied,
• 3:11
  always curious, never satisfied. And who really want to make sure
• 3:16
  that now we can cater also for these new virtual assistants,
• 3:19
  which is basically a new type of customer.
• 3:22
  So how the team is, we will have in the future, we'll have two
• 3:25
  types of customers. It will be Alex, the real
• 3:28
  person, Alex with a pulse and it will be your virtual assistant
• 3:32
  who is sometimes helping you to make things work together.
• 3:36
  And we need to cater for both of your needs.
• 3:38
  And those needs are in the bottom line.
• 3:41
  They're similar, they're data-driven, they're based on
• 3:44
  your actually needing something. I'm quite aware that we are not
• 3:49
  the most sexiest from brand and provider.
• 3:53
  It's not like people are coming to our website just to have good
• 3:55
  time. You because your washing machine
• 3:58
  broke, because you need a new phone, because you're interested
• 4:01
  in the new game. You have a need and we need to
• 4:04
  fulfil it. So we already working with our
• 4:07
  team, how can we fulfil the needs of virtual assistants?
• 4:10
  So we're already thinking how can we enhance the product page
• 4:13
  so that it's also a readable by virtual assistants as normal
• 4:18
  person. And that's why I say Alex, like
• 4:21
  it's like when search became a really a thing and people were
• 4:25
  like, Oh no, the Google crawlers are coming in and what are we
• 4:29
  going to do that because we are not the destination people are
• 4:32
  searching. This is exactly the same.
• 4:35
  Again, you need to make sure that they find their relevant
• 4:38
  information why you are the best.
• 4:40
  We don't. It's my observation that you
• 4:42
  know, when, when catalogues used to exist, all that happened with
• 4:46
  e-commerce was that those catalogues were digitised into
• 4:49
  product pages. And some of these big platforms,
• 4:53
  you know these, everyone knows the, the company I'm talking
• 4:56
  about, they end up just becoming a massive catalogue of product
• 5:00
  with 0 human. And that's why people have been
• 5:04
  when you're on a shopping mission, you're looking for
• 5:06
  something chat makes so much sense, right, Because you just
• 5:10
  described that element. Yes.
• 5:12
  And when you, when you think about data and AI, you have a,
• 5:16
  and I'm not going to say it in, in local language, but you,
• 5:19
  maybe you can. But you have this wonderful
• 5:21
  saying about human and machine working together.
• 5:26
  Can you? Explain the machine We are
• 5:28
  teaching all your podcast listeners from Norwegian.
• 5:31
  Yeah. Tell me.
• 5:32
  Tell me again. Say again.
• 5:34
  Miniska. Miniska machine.
• 5:37
  That's easy. Machine is machine OK.
• 5:40
  And that and that's separate from human in the loop or is it
• 5:44
  the same or is that what what you're talking about?
• 5:46
  No, this is basically that you have to have both because
• 5:48
  exactly the scenario that you are describing where we would
• 5:51
  become a catalogue where there's no feelings, emotions and
• 5:53
  journey involved, that's not where we want to go.
• 5:55
  That's why I say we have to cater for two customers.
• 5:58
  We do need to make sure that if you actually want to go and see
• 6:02
  and also be inspired and let's be honest here, when we talk
• 6:04
  about especially technology and electronics, there's a lot of
• 6:08
  things that people want to find out more about.
• 6:11
  They want to be inspired. What is the best product for me?
• 6:13
  How could it work? I need to have some guidance and
• 6:17
  you have to just see how can you make that journey also visually
• 6:22
  and emotionally adaptable and something that you kind of be
• 6:25
  like, oh, I'm intrigued as a person.
• 6:27
  As well as the machines who are called and they just need the
• 6:30
  data. And there's a fine balance
• 6:32
  because we see now that the product pages really need to be
• 6:35
  enhanced so that virtual assistants can find all the
• 6:38
  information that they need also about the service, maybe about
• 6:41
  returns, maybe about how overall journeys that normally we would
• 6:46
  not put at that stage of the customer journey.
• 6:49
  So how to make that happen without overwhelming the
• 6:52
  information flow on that page for normal reader.
• 6:56
  So it's a it's a fine balance, but we see that the common
• 7:00
  dominator is data, data quality and data structure.
• 7:04
  So there's in the end, we are quite similar, right?
• 7:07
  We need to have be relevant. I find it very unique as in like
• 7:10
  you're one of the few people who talk about that because from,
• 7:13
  from what I do, I, I talk about retail at the speed of culture
• 7:18
  and there's retail at the speed of there's culture and
• 7:21
  relevance, but this new world of retail at the speed of
• 7:26
  intelligence. And I think people often get
• 7:30
  wrong who the customer is and the fact that you've split it
• 7:33
  into who am I serving? Am I serving an agent that just
• 7:37
  wants script and, you know, product page detail?
• 7:41
  Or am I serving human? And I think I don't know if
• 7:43
  people have got there yet, to be honest.
• 7:45
  I I don't know if they're able to separate the two, an agent
• 7:49
  shopping mission versus a human shopping mission.
• 7:51
  Yeah, because I think it's a lot of work, right?
• 7:54
  You have to also understand how are they reading your pages,
• 7:57
  what you need to technically prepare to be actually relevant
• 8:00
  and being seen. So you have to kind of go
• 8:03
  through again, this journey and giving your feeds to Ochachi PT
• 8:07
  and the other players out there. They need to be able to
• 8:09
  understand where you're coming from.
• 8:11
  Why are you the one who would give the best solution?
• 8:16
  And there again, it all goes down to the people because in
• 8:19
  the end, the virtual assistant is looking for, OK, who has the
• 8:23
  best price? That's hygiene.
• 8:24
  You cannot even that is nothing anymore.
• 8:26
  If you don't have the best price, you're out who the best
• 8:29
  price? Who has the best product
• 8:31
  reviews? What's the best service reviews?
• 8:33
  And I think that is kind of also that you should not ignore when
• 8:37
  you're looking into where you should focus your strength now,
• 8:40
  because the racial assistance have put really high value in
• 8:43
  terms of how you serve your customer.
• 8:46
  And this is also in the physical store because you know, online
• 8:48
  journey doesn't end when you press the buy button.
• 8:52
  That's when you know the first part is done, then you have the
• 8:54
  whole last mile. And if you deliver there, I can
• 8:58
  tell you the virtual assistant will not want to get you reroute
• 9:01
  other customers to that experience.
• 9:04
  So it really, you know, it forces us to be good as Omni
• 9:09
  channel player and with full supply chamber they have nothing
• 9:14
  and nowhere to hide basically. You mentioned that the beginning
• 9:18
  of the interview you oversee e-commerce across multiple
• 9:21
  markets and I guess each of them with different maturity levels,
• 9:25
  different customer requirements. How do you build that sort of
• 9:30
  unified shopping experience that so depending on the maturity or
• 9:36
  or the way that each market has come, I'm curious what tools or
• 9:40
  how have you gone about addressing?
• 9:42
  Yes, you know, actually we know this.
• 9:44
  We are quite similar. So we have of course
• 9:46
  differences, you know, Swedish people that like to talk a lot
• 9:49
  and we in Finland, we don't like to talk a lot at all.
• 9:53
  But in the essence, we look more into not how we are different as
• 10:00
  nations, but more how we are different as users of what kind
• 10:04
  of needs we now have in that. So we are looking into more into
• 10:07
  segments, right? Because you are always on a
• 10:10
  shopping mission, you're either looking into something that you
• 10:15
  want to be inspired potentially by or you have a crisis.
• 10:17
  You need something now, right? And it's very important to have
• 10:21
  the right signals. So we're always looking into
• 10:26
  what our customers doing on our website.
• 10:28
  And for that we have fantastic tool with Content Square where
• 10:30
  we can actually see based on their behaviour, what is it that
• 10:36
  drives our customers, What is it, what frustrates them, what
• 10:40
  makes them bounce. And here again then I don't care
• 10:44
  if it's, you know, you Alex or the me, Julie are shopping.
• 10:47
  I just care about what is happening on the website,
• 10:50
  behaviour overall, so we can improve experience for all our
• 10:53
  four markets. And then at the same time, to be
• 10:57
  more relevant, we are looking into data.
• 10:59
  What is the differences because there are is for example in
• 11:02
  payment preferences, how you communicate about for example,
• 11:07
  the last mile options, how you communicate with product
• 11:10
  reviews. There are some differences
• 11:12
  between the markets, what people kind of find trustworthy and
• 11:16
  that is something that we also then see also based on CCC data,
• 11:20
  we are doing a lot of surveys as well.
• 11:21
  We are gathering a lot of data on the NPS feedback to find out
• 11:27
  how we can then be also more relevant locally.
• 11:29
  And that's why I'm very lucky to have local teams in each market
• 11:33
  who are closer to customer pulse and they can then use our tools
• 11:37
  and make it more flavoured what is happening in their market.
• 11:41
  Whilst we make sure from the Nordic side and the headquarters
• 11:45
  that overall that they have the tools and they have the data to
• 11:49
  make those decisions. Yeah, I agree.
• 11:52
  I haven't sent you this question.
• 11:53
  So it's I'm, I'm curious, just listening to you, how do you
• 11:58
  feel then? How do you compare that to
• 12:00
  physical in the sense of you have all of this data coming in,
• 12:05
  Are you the signal? Are you the radar for your
• 12:07
  stores? How do you translate that into,
• 12:10
  into physical? I'm curious if you have thoughts
• 12:13
  on that. Yeah, we have and of course we
• 12:15
  have over 400 stores in the Nordics and we were very closely
• 12:19
  with stores. We see it also in the last mile
• 12:21
  customers really prefer collecting at store.
• 12:24
  One thing is now to you know, maybe getting free fright, but
• 12:27
  that is not really that the main driver, Alex, actually the main
• 12:30
  driver is convenience having also help and we have the best
• 12:34
  stuff. Even though I speak from the
• 12:36
  brand, it's really true. These guys are really an expert.
• 12:40
  So people want to come and meet them and ask them extra cash
• 12:43
  questions. So we see that of course for our
• 12:46
  stores and there is a blind spot because you will not collect
• 12:50
  that kind of data on that person.
• 12:52
  But luckily, we have a very strong customer club and we have
• 12:57
  over 8.9 million people who are in our customer club in our
• 13:01
  market. So a very strong presence.
• 13:04
  And that also helps us when customers are coming.
• 13:07
  We have very good offers for them.
• 13:09
  So then they identify also in the store.
• 13:11
  So then we can also help enhancing that store experience.
• 13:15
  But this area, Alex, is very difficult.
• 13:17
  It's not really easy because you cannot really identify the
• 13:20
  customer when they come in and how to actually be able to
• 13:24
  stitch identities together so that you can provide a better
• 13:27
  experience without adding hurdles like hey, can you scan
• 13:33
  AQR code or can you log into? You don't want the customer
• 13:36
  doesn't want to do that. They just came to complete the
• 13:38
  purchase. So we are working very much on
• 13:41
  to how can we make it more relevant for the customer to
• 13:45
  also identify themselves in the store to get more help that is
• 13:50
  needed at that moment. So there, but that takes time.
• 13:54
  That is not really an easy piece of the puzzle to solve.
• 13:59
  Sure. OK.
• 14:00
  One of the other things obviously I love quite a few
• 14:02
  things you you say, but another thing I've seen you say is how
• 14:06
  you focus in on community culture and celebration.
• 14:11
  Yes. And I guess whether or not
• 14:12
  they're soft elements or not, but how do you see that driving
• 14:16
  hard commercial results? That's crucial because you know,
• 14:21
  in the end it's all about people and people have to.
• 14:24
  Retail is not for weak minded. Retail has become really tough.
• 14:28
  The retail I think always has been tough, but I think it's
• 14:31
  harder than ever than get any kind of margin from hardware or
• 14:35
  your main products. People are pushed and we really
• 14:40
  feel that. It's important that you build a
• 14:42
  culture where people feel that. OK, I know what I'm contributing
• 14:47
  to and how. So for me it's very important
• 14:50
  every single team member they are doing, they're using
• 14:53
  objectives and key results in my team.
• 14:55
  So it's very clear for people what is the company's strategy
• 14:58
  and how we as an e-commerce team are contributing to that
• 15:01
  strategy through work yours and we are also making the
• 15:04
  objectives and key results we are making together with my with
• 15:07
  my E com manager. So it's not only me coming from
• 15:10
  the top and saying now we're going to do this.
• 15:12
  No, no, quite contrary. We, when we understand the
• 15:15
  strategy, then we together make a plan.
• 15:18
  How do we actually answer to it? And when people understand,
• 15:21
  because we go to individual levels, every single team member
• 15:24
  knows how are they contributing to the full picture.
• 15:27
  And I can tell you, Alex, that is extremely motivating because
• 15:30
  people want to bring value and people want to see.
• 15:33
  So first when you have a target, then you have to measure it.
• 15:36
  So then we are measuring every single target is very
• 15:39
  measurable. So you can really see, am I
• 15:41
  doing the right things, are we doing the right things?
• 15:45
  How well should that improve and how am I contributing to overall
• 15:48
  success? So you know that you matter and
• 15:50
  your work matters. And then we'll be have those
• 15:54
  fantastic results. For example, in Black Friday is
• 15:58
  coming up soon. We celebrate, yes, and then we
• 16:01
  have some beers and that's pretty nice.
• 16:06
  I don't know if you get relaxed. To be fair, it feels like this
• 16:09
  must be the most stressful time of the year.
• 16:11
  No, but you know, I tell you I love peak.
• 16:13
  We call this whole period in black weeks.
• 16:16
  I I absolutely love it. It's adrenaline rush, it's
• 16:20
  stress, but it's positive stress because it kind of showcase all
• 16:24
  the hard work, the whole team, the grind and like the grind we
• 16:28
  have put together during the year, it finally pays off.
• 16:32
  We can see have all the efforts, all the tests, all the
• 16:36
  improvements that we have done to decide have they paid off,
• 16:39
  are they actually working? So it's a stress test not only
• 16:43
  for the systems but for people. And it's very important that on
• 16:46
  the Black Friday night when it's a 000 on the clock and Black
• 16:50
  Friday is over, we do celebrate. There will be some bad songs and
• 16:56
  warm beer, but there will be a celebration.
• 17:00
  I'm surprised it's warm beer given the temperature locally,
• 17:03
  but anyway. Locally, you know it's.
• 17:06
  Yeah, I love a lot of things that you say really resonate
• 17:10
  because as I've sort of travelled the world this year
• 17:14
  listening to different digital experts or e-commerce experts
• 17:17
  speak, sometimes they miss some of the big blocks that you're
• 17:20
  talking about. I'm just curious, as someone who
• 17:23
  does do a lot of public speaking, you yourself are on
• 17:26
  that sort of circuit of thought leadership.
• 17:29
  What's the one question that people ask you that I've not
• 17:31
  asked you? I think how one manages to
• 17:36
  balance it all. Basically, how do you make sure
• 17:39
  that the you know, because now it's tough to be a leader and
• 17:45
  you have to make constant choices on how do you make sure
• 17:48
  that you both are, you know, there with the team.
• 17:51
  How you are actually making sure that you see everyone lead
• 17:56
  people from different generations and bring them
• 17:59
  together as a team, especially in tough times.
• 18:02
  And I think that is extremely important for people to know
• 18:05
  that the leadership is tough. Will you sign up for this is not
• 18:08
  for everyone. Again, like retail leadership
• 18:11
  also it's a choice and it's a job.
• 18:13
  And for me it's important to be a coach leader.
• 18:16
  So I'm very much focusing on the collaborative collaboration
• 18:21
  between IT and the business, bringing in business together,
• 18:24
  being quite operational myself. So which is a.
• 18:26
  Long time job in itself. Yes, but you know, it's like
• 18:30
  because you bring people together, you need to know about
• 18:32
  the operation because you have to then make the decisions as
• 18:35
  assertive leader. In the end, someone has to make
• 18:37
  a decision and you cannot make a decision if you're not on top of
• 18:40
  your things. For me, it's very important not
• 18:43
  to micromanage, but be that the support person that I can
• 18:46
  actually bring something to the table.
• 18:48
  So my role isn't to just report upwards what is going on.
• 18:53
  For me, very important that my team knows that I can help them
• 18:58
  to do their job even better and be that supporter, that door
• 19:01
  opener and also politically the one who also closes certain
• 19:05
  discussions and protects them. I'll send you a copy of my CV if
• 19:11
  there's any room for an ex digital guy.
• 19:14
  Final question, final question. And I want to, I want to give
• 19:18
  you sort of the, so if we think about you don't work for the
• 19:22
  company that you currently work, but I'm just want to tap into
• 19:25
  your vision of the future, right?
• 19:28
  And and not, and I don't want five years out because, you
• 19:31
  know, who knows where we'll be in five years.
• 19:33
  But where do you see the next two to three years in the sense
• 19:37
  of what the world in, in what would the digital landscape look
• 19:41
  like in the next two to three years?
• 19:44
  And again, whether or not you want to answer that locally, you
• 19:47
  know, in terms of what you see within the region or as a global
• 19:50
  theme, what whatever you feel, whatever however you want to
• 19:53
  answer. No, I think we will have to just
• 19:55
  really redefine these two customer journeys because you
• 19:58
  will have customers will understand that the convenience
• 20:02
  because convenience in the end is everything.
• 20:05
  So if they under see that OK Co pilot and the different apps,
• 20:09
  different virtual assistants that will actually come and be
• 20:12
  able to based on data give more than.
• 20:16
  One solution, because normally you know, if you have a problem,
• 20:19
  you want to maybe buy a new washing machine, not just buying
• 20:22
  washing machine, how does it fit to interior?
• 20:24
  Maybe you need to do it, maybe want to rethink the whole
• 20:27
  bathroom. It's like having that dialogue
• 20:30
  and obviously tapping into that dialogue then gives us an
• 20:34
  opportunity to be able to be more relevant.
• 20:36
  So I think the future looks like this.
• 20:38
  The ones who have not structured the data haven't fixed where we
• 20:41
  don't have understanding of their products, who don't
• 20:47
  understand their service, who don't have the relevant
• 20:50
  information on their website that is appealing customer.
• 20:55
  They will lose. And I think you know, I love how
• 20:58
  people come and they talk about a lot of fancy things about the
• 21:01
  technology AI revolution, how we are going to be all you know,
• 21:05
  everything is going to be personalised, everything is
• 21:08
  going to be smooth and you just you probably don't even need to
• 21:12
  log into anywhere. You just smoothly just buy
• 21:15
  everything and then you know, stuff will just appear at your
• 21:18
  door. When you think about it, to
• 21:20
  actually get there, even close to there, you have to fix your
• 21:24
  data. And that is a tough job.
• 21:27
  And you know, fixing product data especially, that's nothing.
• 21:30
  Not many are like, hey, volunteering.
• 21:34
  So I think the more analysis, the more insight you can get on
• 21:38
  your customer, the better for the future, the more you
• 21:41
  understand why customers should choose you, be good on the
• 21:45
  things that you actually promised to the customers.
• 21:47
  Like I say, sometimes people can have a conflict.
• 21:50
  They think that if custom, if you are driving business value,
• 21:54
  there's some kind of conflict with customer value.
• 21:56
  I could not disagree more. If you drive customer value and
• 22:01
  you listen to the customers, like for example for us, we take
• 22:03
  NPS feedback and we are actually prioritising our backlog based
• 22:10
  on what are the issues that customers are actually having.
• 22:14
  Do you think that will work on conversion?
• 22:16
  Of course, the example we had last year when we changed our
• 22:20
  whole front end, we saw we had 21,000 feedbacks coming every
• 22:25
  week and we with a eyes help, see here Mendisca machine with a
• 22:29
  eyes help, we actually managed to understand what are the
• 22:33
  biggest pain points and they were in checkout.
• 22:35
  So what we did when, you know, when we changed platform, we
• 22:38
  didn't change things that people already liked.
• 22:40
  Why students so stupid? No, we took things that were
• 22:43
  good and we really changed the checkout based on the feedback
• 22:46
  we got and we saw immediately first week 6% more checkout
• 22:50
  completion. So then again, you have to have
• 22:53
  the tools in place to be able to measure the success, understand
• 22:56
  the KP is you have understand how success looks like for you
• 23:00
  and listen to the customer. And you know, online, they're
• 23:03
  talking to us all the time, Alex, they're clicking, they're
• 23:05
  bouncing. You just need to listen.
• 23:07
  And how we listen is with data. I think the future will be that
• 23:11
  we will be more, you need to be more data literate.
• 23:14
  So we're going to have the data literacy as a as a school topic
• 23:18
  that everyone has to understand. What is data telling you?
• 23:22
  And we will be working more with virtual assistants.
• 23:26
  We will, but it will still in the end be based on how well you
• 23:30
  know yourself, your products, your customer.
• 23:33
  Yeah, no, love it. I think that's I have lots more
• 23:36
  questions, but I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to stop it
• 23:39
  there because otherwise you'll never get to to go and see your
• 23:42
  family because I'll be asking you more and more questions.
• 23:45
  Julia, thank you so much for giving up the time to come and
• 23:47
  talk to us. And I look forward to hopefully
• 23:49
  seeing you on stage. You're one of the many
• 23:51
  conferences around the world. Thank you, Alex, it has been a
• 23:54
  pleasure. Thank you.