Latest / Moral Injury Support Network Podcast / Heath Jones Shows How Movement Beats Fear After Back Surgery

Transcript

Heath Jones Shows How Movement Beats Fear After Back Surgery · Moral Injury Support Network Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome to the Moral Injury Support Network podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Nana Roberts, President and CEO of Moral Injury Support Network for Service Women Incorporated, a nonprofit organization based in North Carolina that helps uh women veterans recover from trauma experienced in the military.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a great guest from Australia.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: His name is Heath Jones.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's an exercise scientist, for me, former Army medic and founder of Active and Ageless.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I like to do he likes to do one thing daily, and that's challenge himself either in fitness business or life in general, and he hopes to empower and inspire others to do the same.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: He believes that discipline and resilience can redefine what's possible at any age.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: With a background as an emergency nurse, army medic, and oil and gas industry medic, he spent his career in high pressure roles.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as founder of Active and Ageless, he's redefining fitness for over 50s, growing to multiple locations and partnering with aged care facilities in just five years.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: After multiple back surgeries and advice to play it safe, he chose the opposite.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Take on demanding fitness challenges, surfing big waves, boxing younger opponents, and building a business that inspires strength, resilience, and a life without limits.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Heath.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so tell us about uh your army experience, what what you did in the Army.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were I know you were a medic, some of the things you experienced, how long you served, that sort of thing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure, sure.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I I joined the military a little bit older than probably most people who joined when I was 28.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I went in through a special entry, which was called uh the DRS, which is direct recruiting into special forces, where to get into the military, we had to have a higher level of fitness, um, more psychological profiling to get into special forces in an expedited way, as opposed to kind of going through the general routes where you were in say general infantry or the military in general for years before trying out for special forces.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: We went through in a um a quicker, quicker pathway.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was really good.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I uh thoroughly enjoyed my first year, which was which was from day one, was quite full on.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: The training was was intense, the the learning was was um you know extremely intense, but uh it was with a great bunch of blokes that were motivated, fit, driven right from day one.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, within about a year I was hurt, I'd hurt my back carrying a mate in training, and then it kind of didn't really recover from that.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I still remained in the military for years afterwards, but I never got to the level that I wanted to purely because I kept having a reoccurrence of my symptoms, my lower back pain, and subsequently went on to multiple back operations after that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: One in the military, one not long after I got out of the army, and then one a few years after the military, which was uh a spinal fusion.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I got out of the army.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was the registered nurse before I went into the army.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: When I got out of the military, I did quite a bit more training in terms of the medical field and went back into that field, but didn't go back into the hospital system.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I went into yeah, the resource sector.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So oil and gas, um, iron ore as a medic, and uh did a lot of remote medical work.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really interesting.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh extremely, extremely isolated where I was working.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my role as a medic was quite autonomous.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have a lot of the resources that you would have if you're working in the hospital environment, didn't have you know, fellow nurses or doctors or radiology departments or or uh pathology departments.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you had to work and had to learn how to be a medic without a lot of those, you know, the luxuries that you get when you work in a you know a city in uh medical environment.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So learnt very quickly and uh did that for about eight to ten years, where we did like say a month on month off on um uh some of the oil rigs around Australia.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I'm thinking as you're saying that, you know, you work remotely, but I'm guessing that your special forces training sort of mentally prepared you for that, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're a medic and a special ops unit, you probably are in a similar like isolating roles, I would think, right?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Out in the bush or whatever, just having to make those decisions yourself.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is is that about right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, exactly.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So with any military training, there's a lot of that is as you I'm sure you're well aware, is is you know, all that teamwork.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: However, there's also a lot of training you have to do when you are 100% by yourself.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you're right.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: We we did uh a lot of training where for three days you'd go in the military, you'd go and get lost in the bush and you'd have to, you know, find your way back, kind of thing.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of training led you to become quite resourceful, become quite independent, and rely on you know what you had to get you to kind of you know do the best job possible, which is similar to um being a medic in remote locations that um yeah, sometimes it was was on you.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't have you know everyone else that was was uh usually part of your team helping you.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so it did definitely set me up for that for sure.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know that one of my first jobs in the oil and gas industry, they looked at all my medical history, my medical experience, um, my medical credentials.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: But then I know I did get the job, and then not long after one of the bosses said to me, Yes, I didn't even look at your medical credentials.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at the fact that you're in the military, and um, that's what got you the job.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I know that you can work in a team and independently as well, make a decision if you need to.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that makes sense.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I find I I did 32 years in the army, I was uh infantry, a good bit of that, and and so I never was in the special forces community, but I had friends that are that were in that community, and uh, you know, just um that that teamwork, that cohesion, because you actually end up being it's a such a small community, you end up knowing everybody, and even if you're not always on the same team, you're you're just together all the time, you're training so much, so many more deployments and stuff like that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It must have been somewhat devastating for you emotionally, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: That that you couldn't stay on the team because of the injuries and that sort of thing.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: That that must have been a challenge to to work through that, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I ended up going to a a general infantry unit because I'd been medically downgraded and I never really wanted to be in the military if I wasn't in special forces.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So going to the general infantry unit, now don't get me wrong, I still had a good time there, but it wasn't, you know, I wasn't working amongst the same caliber of individuals that I was previously.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I I was there for another three years in that unit, and uh admittedly in that time a lot uh a lot of it I was medically downgraded, so I couldn't do a lot of the things that I wanted to do.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't the most illustrious last couple of years of of my career.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, then just decided to get out all together because I wasn't able to get back and try out for SF again.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, it was um a challenging time.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of when I decided, look, there's there's other things out there in life that I wanted to achieve, and I wasn't gonna be able to do it in the army.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So got out there and um yeah, spread my wings.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um you know that I mean if if the Australian army is anything like the US military, which I'm I'm sure there are a million similarities, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: The infantry is I I had a small taste of taste of special operations type culture when I was in the scout sniper, the battalion scout snipers.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't quite the elite level, of course, but but we were much more physically uh stronger and and more fit than any of the anybody else in the battalion.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: We were often operating in very small teams out in front of the battalion.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: We were on our own time schedule.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: We were we were jumping in to a to an air to an area, you know, a day before the rest of the paratroopers, and often in like sniper hides or little team hides.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were very close-knit platoon, squad, team, and and it was it was just a totally different flavor than being in the line because uh all of our like our squad leaders at the time I was just two years in the army, so I I wasn't a team leader yet or anything, but our squad leaders were all either Rangers or one was uh had been through Navy Buds training, you know, they were all elite for for compared to anybody else in the infantry.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So so it was that kind of environment that was just great to work every day.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was we worked extremely hard.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: We did really crazy hard stuff in the field, but when we weren't in the field, we we played every bit as hard.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I had to leave the scouts and I had to go to the line and and be a team leader in a standard infantry company, it was it was devastating for a while.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was just I had a very hard time you know adjusting to the to the level of bureaucracy and supervision and micromanagement and all that stuff.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I I could totally understand how that feels, especially you were at even a very even more elite level than I was.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's a hard transition for people.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was tough to deal with, and um, you know, I don't want to just say talk ill of anyone that was in the general infantry units because there's some brilliant soldiers there, but um I kind of didn't feel like I wanted to be there as much.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to, you know, and the only reason I joined the military was to to be in special forces, really.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So unfortunately I was injured, but um, you know, these things happen.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So so how did you transition?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you said you worked in oil and gas for 11 years, I want to say, is it yeah, thereabouts, yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what during that time were you doing other things or or did you transition transition to these other things later?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what prompted you to do the the work you're doing now, building businesses and and motivating people and that sort of thing?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was in the oil and gas industry, I think I'd always had an idea that I wanted to do something in the older adults in uh health and fitness.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had been a personal trainer for about 20 years, so even in my time in the military, I did a bit of moonlighting on the side and um trained some people, uh personal training.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I then um yeah, throughout the time on the oil rigs, I I'd always had it in the back of my head that I wanted to do what I what I am doing now.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I so then I got to the the stage about what six years ago now that I'm like, okay, am I actually gonna do this and and or keep talking about it?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I pulled the trigger, I did it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I got a got a lease for my first location, but unfortunately that coincided with the very start of the the COVID pandemic.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a challenging time to start a business, and it wasn't um you know, it couldn't have been any worse, to be honest.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was uh yeah, a tough first year or so where I wasn't even able to build the gym, wasn't able to fit it out, and then when I did eventually fit it out, it was you know targeting older adults is um you know the one of the demographics that was most affected.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh extremely hard to to start the business.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that, but I eventually I I stuck with it.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was very close to not to closing the business down initially, but yeah, I persevered, persevered, lost a lot of money initially, and yeah, we we prevailed, thankfully, and that gym is now six years old and I've gone on to open three more locations.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a busy five or six years.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess so.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are the some of the things that you learned in that process and and that you think you can encourage other business owners that that are are struggling?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I I retired out of the military, I started this nonprofit like you shortly before COVID.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had big plans that we had uh luckily we were able to pivot pretty easily because we we weren't setting up a brick and mortar thing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: We were already, you know, sort of sort of prepared to be.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was easy for us to to work online and that kind of stuff, but but just the process of starting a business, learning how to do financing, learning how to market, learning how to find right people, all these different things can be a real challenge for people, especially, you know, you came out of a military background.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my experience is military can can do a lot of things for you, but doesn't necessarily teach you how to be an entrepreneur, although I think the special forces community probably sets people up a little better because it encourages a lot more creative thinking, a lot more thinking outside the box and more courageous things, where where the rest of the military really doesn't honor that as much as it likes people to maintain a certain way of thinking, accept certain uh rules and standards, the way they're written, to not color outside the line, sort of thing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you encourage business owners or people that want to start a business that want to that you know how to to work through those challenges and so on?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the things that does set you up for uh business in in the military is the fact that it's kind of expect the unexpected.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's times in the military where you you don't know what you're doing on that day, and you get told on that day, and you get thrown in the curve, or when you you think you're doing one thing and you actually end up doing something else.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So with business, it's business is is a daily challenge.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's business is harder than anything else I've ever done.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's um you know, but as long as you're you have belief in your concept and your in your ideas and whatever that may be, um, you know, you will you will do well in it, but you just have to understand that it's a proper battle.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: You'll have a smooth sailing for a period of time, then it'll be uh you know complete turmoil for a period of time after that for you know for whatever reason, if it's you know, issues with staffing, issues with uh um, you know, the the building itself, which I've had a few of those lately with different uh what'd you say, different issues with you know power connections and equipment or or uh insurance issues or whatever, whatever that may be, or even at the moment in Australia, it's um uh you know the economy is quite challenging, so interest rates are high, and you know, that makes it really harder to run a profitable business right now, or kind of we're not really profitable right now.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually just just breaking even at the moment, but I know we'll get back to a point of time, hopefully within the next year or so, that we will be profitable.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it you just need to be completely ready for the unexpected.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people are probably not really cut out for business, and and that and that's fine as well.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And some people just probably not really, would you say, resilient enough against you know the amount of fires that you have to put out on a daily basis?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is um yeah, extremely challenging, but it's also rewarding too.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love what I do, I love my staff, I love my members, I love my the concept of of training older adults, I really love that as well.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose those kind of the things that they're the ones that get me out of bed in the morning when you know it's it's can be extremely, extremely tough endeavor.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Any business is, uh I believe.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, you just gotta keep charging through.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I I do attribute a lot of my discipline that I have now with my work and my work ethic from the military.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I try to have myself, would you say, as squared away as possible with a lot of my administration, personal administration, business administration, things like that, that I that I try to best I can uh you know, stay on top of, don't let it get away from you.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that was one thing we were taught in the military, stay on top of your personal administration because you never know when you're gonna get called away, you're gonna get called to whether it's something, you know, within country or you're gonna get overseas to to go to a combat zone or whatever.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So have your life as squared away and as uh under control as possible.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I still try to the best of my ability to do that now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I I hear that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh it's it's that I I think that makes sense to me, that that perseverance that you learn in the military and not just special forces, but any job in the military requires you to be, you know, uh put in many long hours to be uh, you know, sort of dedicated to a looking at details, paying attention to details, and and doing it day after day consistently.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have our physical fitness routines that are that are part of the military and and work uh hours that are that are part of the military.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Many people, especially in the navy, do like shift work.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Navy and air force do a lot of shift work, so it's 12 on, 12 off, that kind of thing.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I can see that being very valuable that that translates well.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you you know, so so you had back surgeries, people cautioned you.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um medical doctors cautioned you to play it safe, and you know, because the the failure rate of back surgery is actually fairly high, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: For a lot of different, yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the success kind of spawn effusions to yeah, humans are at 30 percent.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So so but you didn't do that, you you didn't play it safe.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did you how did you work through that mentally?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you make the decision to play it safe?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it what does it mean to like I'm sure you you have ways of of making sure that you're you know keeping yourself healthy and and not getting hurt again.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: How how do you work through all that?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So for the best part of 10 years, I did actually play it safe throughout my era of back surgeries.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was doing the best thing that I could do for myself and for my pain is to really not do a lot.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was still exercising.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: The exercise I did was extremely cautious exercise.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't really, it's nothing like what I'm doing now.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was the type of exercise that was, you know, all supported exercise, really, you know, low impact, low intensity, and um quite boring, really.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, the some of the things that I love, well the thing I do love most in the world is surfing.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also do mountain biking and several other things.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So those kind of extreme leisure activities were uh a hundred percent no no.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was you know, I was told I could never do any of those again, never run, never do anything like that again.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's and I was still pretty young getting told a lot of these things that I couldn't do, the things that I love more than anything else in the world.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I was told that I couldn't do them again, it was you know extremely depressing.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was for years I was just kind of probably just cruising along board, not really doing a lot.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is you know, even I I whilst I was on the oil rigs, I thankfully was able to conceal a lot of my pain and and even had one operation, my spinal fusion when I was on a six week break from the oil rig, I I um definitely wouldn't have been allowed to to get.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Back to work after that operation, but I managed to kind of sneak, you know, sneak in the operation on the first couple of days back on my six-week break and you don't get back.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was still in a lot of pain when I got back to the rigs.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I still could have done my job effectively and safely, but um, I just wasn't feeling the best.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so this went on for you know many, many years, and and I just kept having free, even after my spinal fusion, kept having a reoccurrence of symptoms.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially none of my back surgeries have helped me at all, haven't made my condition any better, they haven't made it worse.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but as you know, being a doctor, that's a a lot of unnecessary radiation, a lot of unnecessary surgical intervention.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of money for the government too, because you know, all my uh surgeries were covered for uh by the military.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So but yeah, and the the yeah, you the mental health side of things is is the biggest impact because you know I was told to take morphine derivative tablets for the rest of my life.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was sent to a psychiatrist who put me on antidepressants.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was um scheduled for a fourth operation, another spinal fusion.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I'd had a pain doctor um wanting to put like a was it a bupivacaine infusion into my bag, and another one that wanted to put a neurotransmitter, like a like a mini tens machine in into my bag.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this went on for for years and years and years.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um thankfully I got to the point where I I started realizing that you know none of that was actually gonna help me.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was just gonna be a band-aid solution.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I started moving more.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was painful initially, and then over a period of a couple of years, I got myself back to which I believe it is quite a good level of fitness where I'm at now.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 48 years of age now, and and now I do all those things that I was never able to do for the best part of 10 years.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I downhill mountain bike, I surf, I surf um big waves.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I just did a triathlon a few days ago.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing another, a bigger triathlon in about uh 10 days down in Melbourne.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do I do all sorts of stuff now?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I run you know long distances and stuff like that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: So now I, you know, do I still get back pain?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do sometimes.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know how to deal with it now, is probably the thing that I learned the most and how to deal with it is is not catastrophize it as an issue, yeah, but that's an issue that can be dealt with.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas years ago, when I have these three or four monthly blowouts, I was so scared to move.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was in pain, so it hurt to move anyway, but I didn't want to move because I thought the more I moved, the more damage I was doing to my to my tissue in but my back, which I now know that it, you know, maybe for the first day or two when you're in the acute phase, yeah, maybe you know, rest up a little then, but within probably two, three days, I'll moving within a week now after a back blow.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm back to full functionality within a week with assistance, physio massage therapy, lots of stretching, lots of mobility, um, and a positive mindset because I think that's one of the biggest things that we can have when we have a a chronic pain-related issue is you know, we we do go internal, we it's all we kind of kind of think about.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You wake up in the morning if you're in pain, it's it's unfortunately it's the forefront of your mind all day, easier said than done.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: We need to kind of to a certain extent try to live our life as best we can with with almost forgetting about that pain if we can.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it is hard, it is extremely hard.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um, you know, it focusing on the good things in your life, focusing on what you can do as opposed to what you can't do, you know, it does serve us a whole lot better.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, will I have back blights again?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I will, no doubt.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, touch food.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't had one for I think a year, maybe even longer now, a year and a half.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, it'll happen again, but I'm not worried when it does happen next time because I just know how to deal with it.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think one thing we need to learn if you have you know a long-standing chronic condition is to be to be your own expert, understand your body better than anyone else, because you know, your health is your most important thing in the world.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have that, you don't have anything else.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I don't mean to say don't draw upon the knowledge and and assistance from you know, doctors, physiotes, whoever else that you you may need, but you need to learn what triggers your condition and how to best tolerate it yourself and how to how to treat it yourself if you can.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I think there's always, you know, there's always hope as well.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great information.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: On one hand, you're sort of like taking away all the excuses of us 50 plusers, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because you went through so much so much, you had years of pain, you listened to all the experts and did what they told you, and that never uh more or less didn't help you.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what you need to do is just start moving and start.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm right, you didn't go straight to running, but you you just began to build up by by moving and and doing little exercises and and you know gradually increasing your capabilities.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a great message for older people that you know, because we get start being told as I've had plenty of back pain, not to the level you're talking about, but you know, the military will will certainly break it down, but but as as you found, like most of my back pain was a result of being far too sedentary, uh, because as I got later in my career, I moved from the infantry to the chaplain, and so it was a lot more early in the chaplaincy.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a very I was very active, I was out with troops, I was in the field, all that stuff.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: As I got more and more rank and was was in more administrative type roles, it's very easy to um be in the office all the time.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now I work from home, same thing, and so um it you know it it it typically is harder or or requires more intentionality, but you know, we're gonna age a lot quicker, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: If we if we stay sedentary rather than if we find ways to move.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um so when you're working with the 50-year-olds, is that is that kind of your process of of getting them to gradually um challenge themselves a little more, get moving, that sort of thing?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So there's throughout that time of back pain, uh, I believed I was aged well beyond my years.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then yeah, I I suppose I kind of started thinking, you know, it's not just me in this in this predicament, there's plenty of other people out there, and a lot of those people are probably older than me.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So started putting a few things together, and that's one of the reasons why I kind of thought, well, you know, if I was able to help myself, I'm gonna help other people.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the the teachings, a lot of the the exercises that I do to myself now, I a lot of the exercises I did, especially around mobility, flexibility, a lot of those practices that I did on myself or that I learned and then administered on myself for for years and years, I now have in a lot of our course programming, our class programming now to to help other people because I think that the staff you might know this and it'd be the same for for the US that 70% of people or 17 to 80% of people will either have back pain now or have had it throughout their life or will experience it at some stage.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's you know, back pain can kind of you know create that this cascading effect where there's there's so many other parts of your body that will you know will start to be painful because of you know, if your back's or your hips twisted, then you know, you know, then your hips are twisted, you want more pressure on one leg than the other, you might get knee pain and hip pain and so on and so on.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so there's a lot of things that um I've been able to learn myself to to now help other people in my business.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I know it is helping people.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: I tell uh one of my ladies the other day, she was brand new, and I I instructed her in a class, and she said, you know, the very next day her back felt a little bit better.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's amazing.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's she's done one one mobility class with us.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, happy to to help.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a business, and uh, you know, I need to make money, but at the end of the day, I love what I do, and I love helping people as well.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you I think you've hit on something that I've learned too in business, but it it reflects um what I've done in other areas of my life that I succeeded.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know I was doing it, and and that's a basic process of learn, you know, taking information from the experts, um, but always be able to apply it in your own way, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And not not like um not like in a rote way, like they did this, so I'm gonna do the exact same thing.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: We we see that in in all over the place.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: We see this in sports, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Copycat league.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: This one team does things just a certain way.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody tries to copycat it, doesn't work for them because it's like they don't have the same players, they don't have the same mentality, whatever.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like so, so so I think our subconscious mind can put all these pieces of information together when we when we challenge it to solve problems.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: When we challenge our mind to solve problems, they can put the information together the way we need it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't get it right every time, but it gives you an idea that you try.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't work, that leads to another idea that leads to another idea.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like fitness is the same way, like for older people.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you provide some expert information, but also that mentality of like let it work for you, you know, use it in a way that works for you in your situation, try this and then try that.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um that that's the process, though, right?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Experts have a certain level of information, they can provide it to you, but ultimately you have to decide how how it suits you uh in your life situation.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, because a lot of those experts haven't experienced you know the the issues that they're they're um providing, providing guidance on.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I suppose that because that I have experienced it, I can and I'm an expert in the field as well.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an exercise scientist, it's uh you know, I can I've got that real world history, and therefore I can provide those um you know that advice from a place of Ben Abba, you know, that I've experienced it myself as well.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I certainly, I mean, expertise is important.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I think we we sometimes get into mentalities, and this goes back to starting a business again.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: People may feel like, well, I'm not classically trained, I don't have an MBA, I didn't go to college and all this stuff.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that doesn't necessarily have to stop you, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It it it's um, you know, college is in in simple form, college is reading a book uh uh is reading books, having facilitators facilitate you doing certain things to draw information out of those books and applying them, but really it doesn't mean you can do the same process yourself.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can read books on business, on fitness, on education, then do your own exercises to apply it, and then if it fails, keep learning, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh you're that seems to be the way that that you've done a lot of your things is is learn information, try it, apply it, take note of it, and then say, Well, okay, now I have some expertise because school of hard knocks gave me some experience.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help you get that?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so how um when you're working with uh older clients, are there some typical uh things that they that they come to you with, like problem sets that they have that that's very common for them?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think nowadays, which is great, I think a lot of people come to me nowadays, especially women, and say that they want to improve their strength.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: They want to you know start doing resistance training.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Years ago, when I first started the business, and it wasn't really even that long ago, I'd get very few people that would come in and say that they wanted to improve their strength.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a couple of the men, but generally women, it was just one to lose weight.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's the vast majority of of women now understand the importance of strength training, which is which is fantastic.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of a lot of education out there nowadays, there's a lot of even um, you know, series out there, uh documentaries out there that um you know focus around the importance of longevity and and health span, the lifespan and stuff like that, and how strength is you know a huge part of that.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of my marketing has been done for me nowadays.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think one thing that I do see a lot, um, and that's the people that come in and think they're you know so physically incapacitated that they shouldn't actually be doing anything at all.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's that quite often, and the vast majority of time is completely untrue.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the amount of times I've seen people come in and they say, look, I'm here now to I really want to, you know, get strong or lose weight or whatever, or the above, but I don't know whether I should be because I've got pains in my knees, my back, my hip.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and the vast majority of those times that that they they do present like that, and the pains that they have is purely because the muscles are not doing their jobs.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the extra stress is just placed on their joints.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people are generally a lot more physically capable than what they they think, especially if they haven't done anything for years.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the best time to you know start exercising is a long time ago.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: But if if that that wasn't you for whatever reason, you you know, family, career, whatever injury, you know, I think the best time is to start is the second best time to start is today, and is to do it because I mean exercise is something human body is designed to move every day in some way or another.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we do see some you know radical life transformations that's and that all comes back to you know moving better, getting stronger.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's you know, the whole there's so many things that there's so many benefits to get from that daily activity.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just actually getting strong or losing weight, it's you know, you sleep better, you're happier, your body craves healthier food.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of you if you have a chronic condition or you know, one or two chronic conditions are hidden sometimes, it's um those conditions can be improved significantly with you know the application of exercise.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um the more people that realize that they should be moving their body, the better, you know, we'll live in a live in a healthier, happier, happier world, really.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I agree with that completely.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you mentioned, you know, when you're it it's good for your mental health too.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: When you're in a lot of physical pain, it's hard to not also be unhappy, angry, grouchy, whatever it is, right?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and to feel and to feel like it's hard to be optimistic when when you're in chronic pain.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's one thing if you stub your toe or something, that doesn't have to affect your whole day.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: But when you every day are waking up, your every movement feels like it's um, you know, when I when I'm having back pain, which doesn't happen that much now, because because I'm being more active, um, you just like I have a Corvette, I love that car, but I would I would get in it and drive it for a while, and to get out of it felt like I was trying to unhinge or open a rusty hinge where my back is because those seats are not designed for comfort, right?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's really different ball games, and I would just be almost in tears, right?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's like, do I drive my car because I love driving the car, or do I, you know, and have a lot of back pain, or do I decide no, I'm gonna drive the other vehicle, the Ford Escape, uh, because I'll feel better, you know what I mean?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So but but it was really just I needed to be more active to to increase to to get my back in better shape so I could now I could drive the Corvette.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, if if I drive it two or three days in a row, I'll start feeling it, but nothing like I used to.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and the big difference was just being more active in in basic ways.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't go to the gym, I don't do that, but I'm out in the yard every day, I'm doing stuff.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I take a morning walk every day.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just uh being like generally more active uh with my body and being outside, and that that makes a huge difference.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we're we're we're running out of time.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's been great talking to you, but I want to make sure people uh can can reach out to you, they can find you information that you have uh out there.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: What what are some ways that people can get in touch with you or or see your website, etc.?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, if you're in Sydney, come to one of our gyms, they call it Active Enageless, which is the name of our website as well.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um gym Instagram is at Activeinageless Gym.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: My personal Instagram is at Heath Jones1.618.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but um definitely if you're if you're here on holiday, come in and say hello and come and do a session with us.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I would love to figure out how to I I was uh there was a group of chaplains in Australia.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to say, I'm trying to, I'm like, I it the name is of where they're at is on the tip of my tongue.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, they were they were talking about getting some training.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I gave I quoted them a price for virtual training, but I also quoted them the in-person price just in case there was a chance they had enough money I could they I could get to Australia on somebody else's dime.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm still looking for that opportunity uh because uh it's probably more expensive on vacation, it probably won't happen, but uh, but I would love to to go to Australia and um uh that's one of the places I'd love to to visit.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so hopefully someday I'll get a chance.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'd be awesome.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um anyway, it's great speaking with you, Heath, and uh we'll have all your information on our show notes and that kind of stuff.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I appreciate all the work you're doing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your service in the military, and uh, I know that you're making a big difference for people that are in my age and older that maybe have sort of given up on not being able to have a pain-free life and sort of accepted um what some doctors say, which is like you like I've been told, you'll have pain all your life, you just gotta manage it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little disheartening, and I think you give people a lot of hope.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I appreciate that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um awesome, thank you so much.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great rest of your day, and I hope uh things go great in in business and health and and with clients today.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cool, thank you so much.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.