Latest / She's On The Money / Hey Hun: What an MLM Million Dollar Earner Wants You to Know (Part 2)

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Hey Hun: What an MLM Million Dollar Earner Wants You to Know (Part 2) · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Satasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud
0:04
Speaker 1: yor the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And
0:08
Speaker 1: before we get started on She's on the Money podcast,
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Speaker 1: I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
0:13
Speaker 1: land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
0:27
Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money.
1:00
Speaker 4: The podcast that's all about empowering you to make informed
1:02
Speaker 4: financial decisions, not emotional ones, and definitely not decisions based
1:07
Speaker 4: on hehan messages in your DMS. I'm Victoria Devine, finance expert,
1:12
Speaker 4: MLM exposer and the person who's here to help you
1:15
Speaker 4: navigate all the sneaky traps designed to separate you from
1:19
Speaker 4: your hard earned cash. Today is part two of our
1:22
Speaker 4: very special episode. We are chatting to Emily Lynn Paulson,
1:26
Speaker 4: an actual unicorn million dollar earner in an MLM, if
1:30
Speaker 4: you haven't listened to part one yet, where she gave
1:32
Speaker 4: us a very cheeky behind the scenes look at the
1:35
Speaker 4: business side of MLM's hit pause my friend, right now,
1:39
Speaker 4: head back and give it a listen. Trust me, you're
1:41
Speaker 4: going to want the full story. But if you've already listened,
1:45
Speaker 4: stick around today we are going deeper. We're diving into
1:48
Speaker 4: the psychological tactics MLMs used to hook you, keep you,
1:53
Speaker 4: and then convince you that it's all your fault when
1:56
Speaker 4: things go sideways. It's time to pull back the curtains
1:59
Speaker 4: and get into the why behind the decisions people make
2:02
Speaker 4: when it comes to these schemes.
2:04
Speaker 3: So let's go. Let's flip on.
2:06
Speaker 4: Over to the psychology side of things, because I feel
2:09
Speaker 4: like we're starting to delve into that, he said, She
2:12
Speaker 4: said emlms are designed to, I guess, make hitting that
2:17
Speaker 4: first rank basically effortless, like and then they jump up
2:20
Speaker 4: and down and go, oh my god, you made it,
2:22
Speaker 4: like look how easy it is. This is so good,
2:24
Speaker 4: And you get that instant dopamine hit and it kind
2:27
Speaker 4: of keeps you hooked. Can you remember what it felt
2:30
Speaker 4: like when you hit your first milestone? So you decided
2:33
Speaker 4: to sign up, and you were like, all right, I
2:35
Speaker 4: could do this.
2:36
Speaker 3: How did you feel?
2:37
Speaker 5: You know, it was kind of double edged because I
2:41
Speaker 5: signed up, and then as soon as I signed up again,
2:44
Speaker 5: I was totally ignorant, didn't know what I was doing.
2:46
Speaker 5: I kind of ran with it. I met with a
2:48
Speaker 5: friend that night after I signed up, and I was like, hey,
2:50
Speaker 5: I bought this skincare stuff, like I don't know what
2:53
Speaker 5: I'm doing, and she's like, oh, I'll do it with you.
2:55
Speaker 5: So like she literally seemed like that first day, right,
2:58
Speaker 5: And so the next there was a post on Facebook
3:02
Speaker 5: like outing me from my upline. You know, Emily signed up,
3:06
Speaker 5: she started her business, and she's already hit her first promotion,
3:11
Speaker 5: and so here I am like, like I felt a
3:14
Speaker 5: little cringe that she put that out there without my permission.
3:18
Speaker 5: And then I had all of these people, all reps
3:21
Speaker 5: for the company, posting underneath like congratulations, congratulations, congratulations. All
3:25
Speaker 5: these new friends, all these new followers. It's very intoxicating, right,
3:28
Speaker 5: It's like you said, it's that dopamine hit. And so
3:31
Speaker 5: it was like, oh, that was easy. I could do
3:34
Speaker 5: that again, Like I could do more of that. And
3:37
Speaker 5: then you start getting gifts. It's the love bombing just
3:39
Speaker 5: off the bat.
3:40
Speaker 4: It's actually insane because I don't think it's a sacred
3:44
Speaker 4: If you follow me on my personal Instagram, you know
3:47
Speaker 4: I've signed up to an MLM under a fake name,
3:49
Speaker 4: and I have been.
3:50
Speaker 3: Doing that, and that happened to me.
3:51
Speaker 4: I hit my first one and I was mortified that
3:55
Speaker 4: they're tagging me in the same One day, I'll share
3:58
Speaker 4: who I was and what I joined under.
4:01
Speaker 3: But they fully love bomb you.
4:03
Speaker 4: And you mentioned a lot in the book the intense
4:05
Speaker 4: love bombing that happens when someone joins an MLM, and like,
4:08
Speaker 4: I guess that's a good example of it. You get
4:10
Speaker 4: constant praise and attention and some validation, and that's really
4:14
Speaker 4: sexy and we want more of that. How did that
4:17
Speaker 4: level of affection impact you early on? And I guess
4:20
Speaker 4: when did it start to feel a little bit less genuine?
4:23
Speaker 5: When at first it feels genuine because you know, the
4:27
Speaker 5: person I joined with someone from high school. I wasn't
4:30
Speaker 5: friends with her, we didn't know each other well. But
4:32
Speaker 5: then it was like, Okay, she's someone I know, she's
4:35
Speaker 5: someone from my hometown. Like I kind of felt that
4:37
Speaker 5: instant kinship. And then by proximity, you're spending a lot
4:42
Speaker 5: of time, whether it's across the zoom screen or in
4:45
Speaker 5: a Facebook group, you're spending a lot of time in
4:47
Speaker 5: proximity with these people, more than you're probably spending with
4:50
Speaker 5: people in your real life, you know. And you're really
4:54
Speaker 5: taught to share personal things and connect over personal things
4:58
Speaker 5: and how hard life is as mom and you know,
5:01
Speaker 5: blah blah blah. It's so it's kind of like trauma bonding.
5:05
Speaker 4: Early, which is terrifying, and it's a genuine tactic that
5:08
Speaker 4: they are using as trauma bonding.
5:10
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I think it also is by nature.
5:14
Speaker 5: MLMs are mostly women, you know, it's like eighty five
5:16
Speaker 5: to ninety percent women, and so women are more connected
5:21
Speaker 5: on an emotional level. And so when you already have
5:24
Speaker 5: that baked in to a financial transaction where people are
5:28
Speaker 5: making money off of you and you're making money off
5:30
Speaker 5: of people, it's just it's going to be exploited. And
5:35
Speaker 5: so when you're used to getting all these this attention
5:37
Speaker 5: and you're on these top ten lists and you're being
5:39
Speaker 5: asked to speak and then maybe a new shiny penny
5:43
Speaker 5: rolls around. Someone else comes in quick and makes their
5:45
Speaker 5: first promotion and gets a lot of attention, like the
5:49
Speaker 5: spotlight gets taken off of you, and and so there's
5:52
Speaker 5: just automatic like clause coming out, there's automatic jealousy. You're
5:57
Speaker 5: being ranked publicly among other people all of the talk,
6:02
Speaker 5: You're being put on top ten lists by the company
6:04
Speaker 5: by different team leaders all of the time. So it's
6:08
Speaker 5: just kind of a breeding ground for hostility.
6:11
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, yah yak, Yeah.
6:13
Speaker 4: And I guess this love bombing and we just touched
6:17
Speaker 4: on trauma bonding. Those are actually two tactics that are
6:22
Speaker 4: used by cults to keep people engaged and involved and
6:27
Speaker 4: consistently feeling like their cult is their home. And you
6:31
Speaker 4: have said before that an MLM is like a cult,
6:34
Speaker 4: Like I guess a lot of people say that. I
6:36
Speaker 4: say that lots of people do. I want to know
6:38
Speaker 4: what is the most jaw dropping I guess culty behavior
6:42
Speaker 4: that you saw and how it kind of messed with
6:45
Speaker 4: people's lives.
6:45
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the financial exploitation we've talked about.
6:48
Speaker 5: There's a lot of financial exploitation, but you know, and
6:51
Speaker 5: like the emotional exploitation with friendship love bombing, I think
6:55
Speaker 5: the worst, in my opinion is the like you touched
6:59
Speaker 5: on a little bit the spiritual manipulation religious manipulation, and I,
7:04
Speaker 5: thankfully I wasn't in a lot of that. Thankfully my upline.
7:08
Speaker 5: You know, nobody was super religious in my team, but
7:12
Speaker 5: I knew people, you know, crossline or whatever, who I
7:15
Speaker 5: did you know, events with, who were very manipulated, who
7:20
Speaker 5: were like forced to go to a different church, they
7:24
Speaker 5: had to pray before events. And so it throws in
7:27
Speaker 5: this extra layer of not only are you not succeeding
7:30
Speaker 5: because you're not working hard enough, but you're also not
7:33
Speaker 5: devoted enough to Jesus or you know, you're not thankful enough,
7:37
Speaker 5: you're grateful enough to God. And that's I think really
7:41
Speaker 5: best up in a lot of ways.
7:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what kind of scares me as well,
7:45
Speaker 4: because you are blurring the lines between your spiritual life,
7:51
Speaker 4: your home life, your work life. That then when you
7:54
Speaker 4: decide to leave, you're left absolutely high and dry. Immediately
7:59
Speaker 4: you've gone from having what I would say, you know,
8:01
Speaker 4: regardless of the fact that a lot of it was
8:03
Speaker 4: not genuine, you go from feeling very supported to being
8:07
Speaker 4: completely isolated and on your own. So a lot of
8:11
Speaker 4: people they know they want to leave but they don't
8:13
Speaker 4: want to leave because they don't want to lose that connection.
8:15
Speaker 4: They don't want to lose their friends or their so
8:17
Speaker 4: called friends. And then to add religion to that, like,
8:20
Speaker 4: what are you going to do? Leave your religion like that,
8:23
Speaker 4: to me is absolutely insane. How do multi level marketing businesses?
8:30
Speaker 4: I guess use dopamine hits because obviously there's lots of
8:33
Speaker 4: them built in. Like the people that run multi level
8:36
Speaker 4: marketing businesses. Through all of my research, I've realized they're
8:40
Speaker 4: not skincare experts like mone Right good example, they do
8:44
Speaker 4: hair care and they do skincare. The founders of Money
8:48
Speaker 4: are not hair care or skincare people at all. In fact,
8:51
Speaker 4: they have a very rich history in network marketing and
8:54
Speaker 4: multi level marketing business building, and they have just seen
8:58
Speaker 4: that hair care and skincare is incredibly popular with the
9:01
Speaker 4: women that are the best victims. And so I think
9:04
Speaker 4: we might go down that route. Let's create a haircare
9:07
Speaker 4: skin care line with all of these wild you know,
9:10
Speaker 4: things that we can say about them that no one
9:12
Speaker 4: can really validate, and then we are going to recruit
9:15
Speaker 4: all of these women underneath. But to keep them involved,
9:18
Speaker 4: we actually need to give them consistent gratification and consistent
9:22
Speaker 4: dopamine hits. And I feel like it's quite clear that
9:25
Speaker 4: through their model they use it to hook you like
9:28
Speaker 4: an addiction. And you've spoken about this in your book.
9:31
Speaker 4: How does their structure keep you chasing that next high?
9:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, because they have hierarchy built in everywhere. You know,
9:39
Speaker 5: not only you join an upline, who then is like
9:42
Speaker 5: your master, who you have to take information from and
9:45
Speaker 5: distill it down and then recruit other people and tell them,
9:48
Speaker 5: you know, like a baby bird. You've got to feed
9:50
Speaker 5: them the information. So you've got this hierarchy. But then
9:53
Speaker 5: there's different levels, and you know, you promote to meet
9:57
Speaker 5: these levels, and every time you get there, there's some
9:59
Speaker 5: sort of it's like a constant game of like candy
10:02
Speaker 5: crush or something.
10:04
Speaker 3: And I love candy Crush. I would have been the worst.
10:06
Speaker 4: I'm so glad, honestly, Emily, I see so much of
10:09
Speaker 4: me and you like, I just go.
10:12
Speaker 3: You know what, if someone had given me that opportunity
10:14
Speaker 3: and I didn't know any better, I would have loved it.
10:16
Speaker 3: It's like gammification. I would have been all over it.
10:19
Speaker 5: It is. It's like analogue gamification. That's exactly what it
10:23
Speaker 5: is where they send you little gifts and just when
10:25
Speaker 5: you start to feel a little bit like, oh, my
10:27
Speaker 5: sales aren't good, they're like, we're going to have a
10:30
Speaker 5: sale this month, and you know, you get a free
10:32
Speaker 5: whatever for every one of these that you sell. And
10:35
Speaker 5: it's just constantly built in so you have something to
10:39
Speaker 5: look forward to. And they plan the convention. It's six
10:42
Speaker 5: months in advance and you have to start like making
10:46
Speaker 5: your way to advancing to earn certain gifts at convention.
10:50
Speaker 5: They just make it a year long thing and then
10:53
Speaker 5: during the month there's different goals. You know, every month
10:55
Speaker 5: you have to read up to the same title. Like
10:58
Speaker 5: it starts over every month. It's not like you get
11:00
Speaker 5: to a rank and then you're there. You have to
11:02
Speaker 5: do it every month. It's just a constant hamster wheel.
11:06
Speaker 4: And the higher you climb, from what I can say,
11:09
Speaker 4: the more pressure you have on you to spend like
11:12
Speaker 4: first class lights assistance. This idea of retiring your husband
11:17
Speaker 4: that everyone wants to talk about, how did projecting that
11:21
Speaker 4: lifestyle keep you stock even when I guess it wasn't
11:24
Speaker 4: financially sustainable.
11:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's one thing when people ask, like
11:28
Speaker 5: about the car and how the car is not really free.
11:30
Speaker 5: You actually have to buy the car, right, the free car.
11:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it has to be white. It has to
11:34
Speaker 4: be a white Range Drover, absolutely, And people have.
11:37
Speaker 5: Asked me like, well, why get it then, if it's
11:39
Speaker 5: such a financial drain, why get it? Well? Can you imagine?
11:44
Speaker 5: You know, you see all over social media like so
11:46
Speaker 5: and so earned her Lexus and then you're not driving
11:49
Speaker 5: the car. So it's almost like you're forced, your shamed
11:53
Speaker 5: into spending and you don't want your downline thinking like well,
11:56
Speaker 5: why are you flying in coach when so and so
11:57
Speaker 5: is flying in first class? Or why are you doing
12:00
Speaker 5: this when she's doing this. It's the comparison where you
12:03
Speaker 5: have to look like this is aspirational and if you
12:07
Speaker 5: don't earn the trip and you're not there, well, your
12:09
Speaker 5: team's not going to feel motivated to want to try
12:12
Speaker 5: and earn it. And so you do feel pressure to
12:15
Speaker 5: buy stuff and to fit in and have the shoes
12:18
Speaker 5: that kind of match everybody else. And that's why when
12:21
Speaker 5: people say like, oh, well, you know, what what did
12:24
Speaker 5: you do with all the money, It's like it was
12:26
Speaker 5: constantly going back in. The more you made, the more
12:30
Speaker 5: you were expected to spend all of the time, and
12:33
Speaker 5: even if it wasn't over, it was between the lines.
12:36
Speaker 5: You know, what gifts are you going to give your
12:38
Speaker 5: people who promote to level five? What retreat are you
12:41
Speaker 5: going to take your team on? And if you're not
12:43
Speaker 5: doing it well, why is someone going to want to
12:45
Speaker 5: be on your team.
12:46
Speaker 3: It's a lot of pressure.
12:47
Speaker 4: It sounds like we're going to take a really quick break,
12:50
Speaker 4: but don't go anywhere because I've got so many more
12:52
Speaker 4: juicy questions. All right, way, all back. And I feel
12:59
Speaker 4: like you were thankfully also not thankfully, like I'm glad
13:04
Speaker 4: that you made it to the top, so that we
13:06
Speaker 4: got you fighting the good fight against multi level marketing
13:09
Speaker 4: businesses now. But you've said that a lot of consultants
13:12
Speaker 4: are often presenting a life of success that's a little
13:15
Speaker 4: bit more like illusion rather than reality. Oh, I don't know,
13:19
Speaker 4: what's the wildest thing you've seen someone do. I feel
13:23
Speaker 4: like you were in a lucky position where you had
13:24
Speaker 4: the income coming in, so like if you were spending it, okay,
13:28
Speaker 4: but like, what did you see someone do to kind
13:30
Speaker 4: of like fake the dream to keep it alive?
13:34
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the cringiest things.
13:37
Speaker 5: Was something that a lot of people and everyone did.
13:40
Speaker 5: This is like you pose next to your uplines lexus, right,
13:44
Speaker 5: So I was like, this is what my upline earned.
13:46
Speaker 5: It's like, well, you haven't earned it, Like what are
13:48
Speaker 5: you talking about? You know. It was this aspirational thing.
13:51
Speaker 5: And then also the posting of paychecks. Sure you've seen
13:54
Speaker 5: tons of that where they're like, oh, I got my
13:56
Speaker 5: monthly check or whatever, and then it's pexed out.
14:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw one the other day.
14:01
Speaker 4: It actually I forgot to screenshot it, and then when
14:04
Speaker 4: I went back, they'd removed it. Because like, I have
14:06
Speaker 4: an account where I follow all the MLM girlies just
14:09
Speaker 4: to keep up with the goss and one girl had
14:12
Speaker 4: done it, but she clearly moved her photo so the
14:14
Speaker 4: exes were not in the right spot, and she's like
14:17
Speaker 4: the caption was, oh my god, I got my monthly paycheck.
14:19
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for whatever. I don't even care. But
14:22
Speaker 3: it was twenty three dollars and like forty cents, and
14:25
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that's embarrassing.
14:27
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it'll be like the right number of numbers,
14:31
Speaker 5: but they'll cover up where the decimal point is or whatever.
14:34
Speaker 5: So it looks like way more one hundred percent, and
14:36
Speaker 5: even if it was like even if it was one
14:38
Speaker 5: thousand dollars, like again, subtract everything they're spending, which is
14:42
Speaker 5: probably close to one thousand dollars. Tax is like how
14:45
Speaker 5: much should they spend to go on that trip? It
14:47
Speaker 5: never accounts for that.
14:48
Speaker 3: But the trip was free Emily, they earned that trip.
14:53
Speaker 5: Which and then they get to pay for it at
14:54
Speaker 5: the end of the year. Right, it's added as income.
14:57
Speaker 5: That's the other thing that of course I didn't know
14:59
Speaker 5: why I but when you get to the end of
15:01
Speaker 5: the year and you get your ten ninety nine statement
15:04
Speaker 5: and it's like, you know, you have your money that
15:07
Speaker 5: you actually aren't dollars, and then at the end it's like,
15:10
Speaker 5: you know, whatever for we leave it on bag and
15:13
Speaker 5: that's added as income.
15:15
Speaker 4: And that happens in Australia too when we get our
15:17
Speaker 4: tax statements, because they do give you a tax statement
15:20
Speaker 4: because surprise, surprise, it's actually not your own business, because
15:24
Speaker 4: they have to issue you with your own tax statement
15:26
Speaker 4: because they've done all of their maths in the background,
15:30
Speaker 4: and you have like your non monetary income that needs
15:33
Speaker 4: to be disclosed and if you've been gifted anything.
15:36
Speaker 5: And you don't get to write it off exactly, they
15:39
Speaker 5: already wrote it off. You don't get to write it off.
15:42
Speaker 4: You just have to pay tax on that quote income
15:44
Speaker 4: that you achieved and it's not actually income, So you're
15:48
Speaker 4: paying for something that.
15:49
Speaker 3: You thought was free.
15:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, is it great to get a purse? Sure? Can
15:53
Speaker 5: you pay your rent with that? No? So there's a
15:57
Speaker 5: lot of people who they end up getting pushed over
15:59
Speaker 5: the threshole of having to file quarterly taxes in the US.
16:03
Speaker 5: You know, it's over a certain amount yet to fail
16:05
Speaker 5: quarterly and they didn't know that because they were like
16:08
Speaker 5: making a couple hundred bucks a month, but because they
16:11
Speaker 5: went on this trip that was added as income. Then
16:15
Speaker 5: they get this ten thousand dollars fine from the IRS
16:17
Speaker 5: because they didn't file quarterly taxes. And I heard this
16:19
Speaker 5: story over and over and over because how would you know?
16:23
Speaker 4: But the MLM is not going to tell you that
16:25
Speaker 4: because that's not sexy, and that's your problem. Remember, it's
16:28
Speaker 4: your business. You need to work out your own taxes.
16:31
Speaker 4: That's not their responsibility. That is all honestly outrageous, But
16:36
Speaker 4: one of the most outrageous things that I read in
16:39
Speaker 4: your book.
16:40
Speaker 3: I nearly threw it across the room.
16:41
Speaker 4: Emily, Oh my lord, I like put it down in
16:45
Speaker 4: bed and I looked at my husband and I was like,
16:47
Speaker 4: you're not going to believe this, and he was like,
16:50
Speaker 4: all right, laid on me. What is it in your book?
16:53
Speaker 4: You talk about your cancer diagnosis and then how the
16:58
Speaker 4: multi level marketing business encouraged you to use that as
17:02
Speaker 4: a selling point. That is a deeply personal and very
17:08
Speaker 4: vulnerable time to be going through for them to be
17:11
Speaker 4: like great sales, black fantastic selling point. Can you walk
17:16
Speaker 4: us through what happened and how that made you feel?
17:19
Speaker 3: Because that was a lot Yeah.
17:22
Speaker 5: I think again, this is something that's preemptively trained into you,
17:26
Speaker 5: like a lot of things, just like how they'll say, oh,
17:28
Speaker 5: you'll have a lot of haters and you'll get a
17:30
Speaker 5: lot of people saying no to you. And here's all
17:32
Speaker 5: the talking points like preemptive right, you are from the
17:35
Speaker 5: beginning again, you're doing all that love bombing. You're telling
17:39
Speaker 5: you like deeply personal stories. You're talking about your trials
17:42
Speaker 5: and tribulations. And when you go to events you hear
17:47
Speaker 5: people's sob stories. It's the rags to riches, it's the
17:50
Speaker 5: pain to profit. Right, those are the stories you always hear,
17:54
Speaker 5: and so this is just cooked into your brain. And
17:57
Speaker 5: so when something troubling comes up, like when some one
18:00
Speaker 5: you know, their husband who's a firefighter die is in
18:03
Speaker 5: a fire, well, the company is right on that to
18:06
Speaker 5: be like, oh gosh, you know you really need the
18:09
Speaker 5: money right now. You know you could use this as
18:11
Speaker 5: a way to earn money. Ew no, but it sounds like, oh, yeah,
18:15
Speaker 5: you're right, I have my own business. This would be
18:18
Speaker 5: a good way to help. It's really hard to explain
18:22
Speaker 5: when you're out of it because that's one of those
18:23
Speaker 5: things people are like, well, that's really gross. So I'm like, yeah,
18:26
Speaker 5: it is, and it seems like the most natural thing
18:31
Speaker 5: to do when that is the sea you're swimming in,
18:33
Speaker 5: when you are around all of this quote unquote charity
18:37
Speaker 5: again the air quotes. That's not charitable. It feels like
18:40
Speaker 5: you're doing a very good thing.
18:42
Speaker 4: It's actually insane to me that they literally take advantage
18:46
Speaker 4: of every situation like you're right, maybe you did need
18:50
Speaker 4: some money during that period of time. But the way
18:53
Speaker 4: that they manipulate that I have scene it time and
18:56
Speaker 4: time again here in Australia, like oh, it. Actually, yeah,
19:01
Speaker 4: I did want to throw your book. I'm so sorry,
19:03
Speaker 4: Like I wouldn't have heard it, but like I wanted
19:06
Speaker 4: to throw it across the room and be like this
19:08
Speaker 4: is ridiculous, Like the fact that this was normal and
19:11
Speaker 4: that you've exposed it, right, that's so fantastic. But it's
19:16
Speaker 4: still going on, and they're like, I'm sure you've been
19:19
Speaker 4: absolutely outcast. You've been like you've been kicked out of
19:22
Speaker 4: the Church of MLM's.
19:23
Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, oh yeah, So talk to.
19:25
Speaker 4: Me about that process, because I feel like the second
19:28
Speaker 4: you start being one of the quote haters, you like,
19:31
Speaker 4: went from being their queen to i would say, being
19:34
Speaker 4: exiled and they wanted to put you on an island
19:37
Speaker 4: in the middle of the Pacific and never hear from
19:39
Speaker 4: you again.
19:40
Speaker 3: What was that like?
19:41
Speaker 5: So my process was kind of interesting because it was
19:45
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen where I was like, ooh, where I really
19:48
Speaker 5: you know again, I'd had my team do like profit
19:50
Speaker 5: loss statements, and where I got to the point where
19:52
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, all of these people are doing the
19:55
Speaker 5: work and they are not having the success that I
19:57
Speaker 5: had had, and I knew it was a system. So
20:00
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm turning everything off. I'm not selling anymore.
20:04
Speaker 5: I'm just going to slowly back away. So I was
20:07
Speaker 5: very transparent with my upline who brought me in, like,
20:11
Speaker 5: you know what, I love you, thank you for this opportunity.
20:13
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm not going to do this anymore. And
20:15
Speaker 5: I kind of thought I would like silently collect a
20:17
Speaker 5: check until it dissolved and went away. And then COVID happened,
20:23
Speaker 5: and I mean the off the wall like the predatory
20:28
Speaker 5: posts and comments and trying to use the pandemic to
20:31
Speaker 5: recruit people was so gross to me. Again, I sold nothing,
20:35
Speaker 5: did nothing, and yet I still hit the top rank
20:38
Speaker 5: of the company that year. And that's when I was like,
20:41
Speaker 5: this system is so rigged, this is so messed up.
20:45
Speaker 5: And I quit. So by that time I had been
20:48
Speaker 5: so off the radar for so long. It really wasn't
20:50
Speaker 5: a huge surprise to anyone that I fully terminated. But
20:54
Speaker 5: when my book announcement came out, oh they would have rioted,
20:58
Speaker 5: It was oh they I had messages and calls like
21:02
Speaker 5: I can't believe you're going to talk about this? Are
21:04
Speaker 5: you going to talk about me? You know, there were
21:06
Speaker 5: a lot of people going on the offense, like you're
21:08
Speaker 5: not going to tell about this and about this, about this,
21:10
Speaker 5: and no, I am very afraid of like what I
21:12
Speaker 5: was going to say. So that's really when the clause
21:16
Speaker 5: came out, where it was like, you know, you did
21:19
Speaker 5: all of this stuff and now you're going to profit
21:21
Speaker 5: off it with a book or whatever. You know, It's
21:23
Speaker 5: like yeah, I am yeah. So anyway, that's really when
21:29
Speaker 5: the clause came out. So I think by the time
21:32
Speaker 5: I was like brave enough to talk about it, I
21:34
Speaker 5: had been out much longer than I was out, if
21:37
Speaker 5: that makes sense, Like I had backed away for so long,
21:40
Speaker 5: and I think that was an advantage to me, and
21:42
Speaker 5: I that's the number one thing I do tell other people.
21:45
Speaker 5: It's like, Okay, you made the realization. Obviously not everyone
21:50
Speaker 5: can just immediately quit, you know, if they're making money,
21:53
Speaker 5: you know, figure out an exit strategy and slowly back away,
21:57
Speaker 5: you know, have a conversation with the people on your team,
22:00
Speaker 5: start posting, start promoting, and you know you can kind
22:03
Speaker 5: of get out that way. And the more you back away.
22:06
Speaker 5: And I think COVID helps in this situation too, that
22:08
Speaker 5: I couldn't go to conventions, I couldn't be around people,
22:10
Speaker 5: I couldn't be indoctrinated.
22:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty lucky.
22:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, when you take yourself out of that bubble, you
22:16
Speaker 5: really can start to see a lot of realizations come
22:19
Speaker 5: to the service. When that happens, too.
22:20
Speaker 4: It's absolutely insane to me, Like it drives me nuts
22:24
Speaker 4: because I think the position that I'm sitting in, I
22:28
Speaker 4: just want the best for women, and I think we
22:30
Speaker 4: also want the best for ourselves, and that's why we
22:32
Speaker 4: get involved in these things because it sounded like a
22:35
Speaker 4: great opportunity at the time, and realizing that it's not
22:39
Speaker 4: the opportunity you thought it was can be incredibly confronting.
22:42
Speaker 4: And I'm sure it was. But what's something that you
22:46
Speaker 4: would tell someone who's still involved in an MLM, because
22:49
Speaker 4: I know they're going to listen, like I can't wait,
22:51
Speaker 4: Like hi, babies, Like I know you're all watching on
22:54
Speaker 4: you know. I have had a plethora of them send
22:57
Speaker 4: me messages being like you're going to hear from head,
23:00
Speaker 4: you're going to get a safe and desist, you're going
23:02
Speaker 4: to get sued, And I'm like, okay, let's.
23:05
Speaker 3: Go for what for what?
23:08
Speaker 5: Yeah?
23:09
Speaker 3: What would you say?
23:10
Speaker 5: Yeah? What I usually tell people is I say, you know,
23:14
Speaker 5: slowly you know, do a profit loss statement. It's the
23:16
Speaker 5: first thing to tell people to do, and all of
23:19
Speaker 5: your expenses. Really write down all of the time that
23:22
Speaker 5: you're working and do some math, do a little bit
23:25
Speaker 5: of math, figure out what you're making per hour and
23:27
Speaker 5: that for a lot of people that is enough. They're like,
23:28
Speaker 5: oh my god, this is not worth my time? What
23:30
Speaker 5: am I doing? And then it's usually like how do
23:33
Speaker 5: I tell my upline? You know, and again like, just
23:36
Speaker 5: be honest, I'm not making any money. I don't care
23:38
Speaker 5: if it's my fault. I don't care if you tell
23:40
Speaker 5: me it's my fault. A lot of it's just unlearning
23:44
Speaker 5: the things you've been told and asking yourself like why
23:47
Speaker 5: do I believe this? Who told me this? And who
23:50
Speaker 5: is benefiting from this? Right? Because if your upline wants
23:54
Speaker 5: you to stay in and they're encouraging you to stay in,
23:56
Speaker 5: what's the reason. Do they really believe in you? Do
23:59
Speaker 5: they really want the best for you? Or they're making
24:00
Speaker 5: money off of you. They're making money off of you,
24:03
Speaker 5: So go to outside sources. Really do the math, like
24:07
Speaker 5: get actual critical thinking skills and think about what you're doing.
24:12
Speaker 3: It drives me insane, Yeah.
24:13
Speaker 5: And I think the sunk cost fallacy is one thing
24:16
Speaker 5: people are whether it's friends, time or money. Yeah, I
24:20
Speaker 5: put so much into this, how can I leave now?
24:23
Speaker 5: And you just do like you just.
24:27
Speaker 3: Do well you do.
24:27
Speaker 4: And I get that because you don't want to just go, oh, well,
24:30
Speaker 4: that was all a waste, like you want to make
24:32
Speaker 4: the most of it, but you're throwing good money after
24:34
Speaker 4: bad And something that my dad told me once, he said,
24:38
Speaker 4: the sooner you get off the train, the cheaper the
24:40
Speaker 4: return ride home. And I think that that is a
24:44
Speaker 4: really good analogy to go, all right, well, the longer
24:47
Speaker 4: you stay on the train, the more it's going to
24:49
Speaker 4: cost you to come back home. And I think that
24:51
Speaker 4: that's a really important thing to remember. I have taken
24:54
Speaker 4: up a lot of your time. Emily. Thank you so
24:56
Speaker 4: much for chatting with us today sharing your story. It's
24:59
Speaker 4: been really fun, really pervy, but also kind of really
25:02
Speaker 4: concerning your honesty and insight honestly eye opening, and not
25:07
Speaker 4: to mention it is so important for anyone who's ever
25:11
Speaker 4: been I guess drawn into the MLM world or you
25:13
Speaker 4: know someone that has. I feel like we all know
25:15
Speaker 4: someone who's doing MLM. I get so many messages, and
25:18
Speaker 4: I'm sure you do of like, oh my god, Victoria,
25:20
Speaker 4: you're never going to believe this. My cousin signed up
25:22
Speaker 4: and I just know Christmas is going to be so
25:24
Speaker 4: awkward now, and you're just like, oh, I.
25:27
Speaker 3: Feel for you.
25:28
Speaker 4: But it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for
25:31
Speaker 4: joining us. Thanks Victoria, of course, for anyone listening, Emily's
25:35
Speaker 4: book Hayhun Sales, Sisterhood and Supremacy and the Other Lies
25:39
Speaker 4: behind Multi Level Marketing.
25:40
Speaker 3: Is a must read. Just don't throw it at your husband.
25:44
Speaker 4: It dives even deeper into her experiences and breaks down
25:47
Speaker 4: the truth behind these business models. I'm going to put
25:49
Speaker 4: a link in our show notes so that you can
25:51
Speaker 4: check it out.
25:52
Speaker 3: And if you know someone who needs.
25:53
Speaker 4: To hear this, I would love it if you shared
25:56
Speaker 4: it with them. Let's keep saving women from these dodgy
25:59
Speaker 4: schemes and empower bowing them with the truth.
26:07
Speaker 3: The advice shared.
26:08
Speaker 6: On She's on the Money is general in nature and
26:10
Speaker 6: does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money
26:14
Speaker 6: exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied
26:18
Speaker 6: upon to make an investment or financial decision.
26:21
Speaker 3: If you do choose to buy a financial product.
26:23
Speaker 6: Read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial.
26:26
Speaker 4: Advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on
26:30
Speaker 4: the Money are authorized representatives of Money. Sheper Pty Ltd
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