Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Bonus Episode] Ancient Healing for Modern Women | Katie Silcox

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[Bonus Episode] Ancient Healing for Modern Women | Katie Silcox · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

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  Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
• 0:05
  We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
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  get closer to what's real.
• 0:13
  You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
• 0:17
  The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
• 0:20
  These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
• 0:25
  something deeper.
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  The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
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  And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
• 0:38
  Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
• 0:42
  Take what lands, leave what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
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  We hear with another episode of Performance Driven Living, and this one's going to be a
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  little bit different than usual, because usually I'm talking to somebody because I'm questioning
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  everything there is to know about the world.
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  But today we've actually set this up a little bit different, and that is I am joined by
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  my friend and beautiful soul and host of Spirit Sessions podcast, Katie Silcox.
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  And I've known Katie for years now, and just I have to tell you, like few people, I'm
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  high energy, and I mean this all super serious, because I'm talking to Katie here too, because
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  I've not said this to her, that is I'm like a high energy, like I feed off of a crowd.
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  And Katie's one of those people that when I spend any time around her, my soul calms
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  down.
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  And I mean that, and that's a true compliment to you, Katie, because not a lot of things
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  actually balance me, but when I spend time around you, I find myself matching your energy.
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  And that, I mean, that's such a huge compliment to you, because like I said, I'm a bit of a
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  spaz, but, but yeah, you calm me down, why are you, well thank you, and I'm so happy
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  we're having this conversation because without knowing it, Mark, you, you really touched
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  into the essence of everything that I care about, which is how can we come into harmony
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  with one another and, and with ourselves, and here we are, I'm a woman, you're a man,
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  and we've kind of forgotten this inner balance between the masculine and the feminine, and
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  if in any way I can be in your life that mirror of, of calm, of sweetness, of groundedness,
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  that is a gift that I have learned how to give myself, because I'm actually a spaz too,
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  I'm a recovering spaz, and you know, I was telling a dear, dear mentor of mine the other
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  day, I feel like I'm usually one of the most calm grounding people in the group, and that's
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  a huge shift, and so people can change.
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  You know, I gotta say, I love that, and, and we're doing like this, this joint podcast
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  here where like you're on my podcast, and I'm on yours at the same time, which is super
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  cool, because we don't do that very often, but this is actually even cooler to me, because
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  you're talking about masculine and feminine energy here, and what's funny is I was just
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  talking with a friend of mine the other day, a woman who's a, who's a very much a woman
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  in a man's world kind of person, works in politics, so on, so forth, and we were having
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  this conversation about, you know, men opening the door, and it actually, it started over
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  a woman driving a car with a man in the passenger seat, and I, and I commented, I was like,
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  I don't know why, maybe it's sexist, but that's weird to me, right?
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  And she's like, I agree, and, and I was like, I don't know, it just feels weird to me,
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  and she's like, no, I agree with you, and she's like, I'm a woman who spends my time
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  in a man's world, and I've got a bubble, bubble, she goes, and I wear pink all the time,
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  and I love dressing up, and I've bubble, and she, she really goes into this, but I need
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  to make sure that I live in feminine energy, and spend my time around men that spend their
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  time in masculine energy, and this, and this idea, and I said, you know, for me, I have
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  to be in a place where, you know, holding a door for a woman was just ingrained in me as
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  a child, like it's reflex at this point, it's not even a conscious thought.
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  Well, and on behalf of the women of the world, I would say that the majority of us really
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  like that, and appreciate it. And, you know, Mark, I think you'll find this super interesting,
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  and maybe our listeners as well, and, and so I've studied this tantric form of spirituality
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  for over 20 years, and one of the things that tantra says is that, and I, and I think it helps
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  the conversation, we have this hand gesture, we do a lot in our, in our school of like duality,
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  right, right, and left, right, you've got both, and usually I hold it out wider, but you can't
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  see that on the screen. And we're in these conversations of like, do I hold the door open?
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  Do I not? Do I drive the car? Do I not? Is it right? Is it wrong? Should men do this? Should
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  women do this? And tantra comes in and says, most of us have three parts masculine, two parts
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  feminine, if we're a man, but not all of us. And most of us, if we're a woman, have three parts
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  feminine, two parts masculine, but not all of us, right? And so this, this deep understanding of
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  the dual nature of our masculine and feminine helps us navigate this really difficult world,
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  where I think so many women that come to the Shakti school are like, I really like for a man to be
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  protective and providing and gentlemanly and chivalrous. And I want my own bank account,
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  I want to do my career. And so I think having that kind of nuanced conversation where we don't
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  throw the baby out with the bathwater is super important because so many women really value
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  their feminine and so many men really value their masculine, but we need the maturation of both.
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  Well, and you used two words there that literally I was going to say before we
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  switched to you started talking was like, the words protector and provider. And literally,
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  that's how I see myself like it doesn't matter who's in the room. I'm here to make sure that
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  they're protected and it doesn't matter who's at the table. It's my job to provide it. And I think
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  that that energy goes a long way and and I love what you're talking about in terms of that
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  confusion of energy and it's like most people I think resonate with that. And there are some that
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  don't and that's fine. But sometimes I think we're letting the outliers make the rules.
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  Right. Totally. And the key word too that I learned from one of my mentors in in Jungian psychology,
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  he said, you know, Carl Jung understood that all of us have this inner masculine feminine and we
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  all need to work to mature it. And so we could talk about like what does the immature feminine and
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  immature masculine look like? You can hold a door open for me. But if you as a man are not able to
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  happen to the depth of your own heart, then you're not a mature man. You're just doing the outer
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  trappings of the provider and the protector. The true provider protector actually has to have access
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  to his soft heart to be that hard force on the outside. It's the same with the feminine. I can
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  be soft Mark, but don't F with me. I am off his nails on the internet. Yeah, I had this conversation
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  recently with JP Sears. Oh cool. Who JP is. Yeah, I love him. He's awesome. And he and he
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  was on my podcast and we had this conversation and what's funny is I asked him, I said, you know,
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  JP, like you're pretty bold. Like, and he had a kid a couple of years ago. And I'm like, now that
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  you're a dad, like, what is that done to your boldness? And the answer I was expecting, which is
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  super interesting. I said, the answer I expected from him was to say, well, now I'm a little bit
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  softer because you know, I've got a baby and blah, blah, blah. And his answer was, I am bolder
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  than I ever was. And I was like, wow, that's interesting. And he's just like having a child
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  has brought out this warrior archetype out of me. And he's like, but my belief is, and he goes,
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  I talk a lot about, you know, the myth of toxic masculinity and so on and so forth. And he's like,
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  but in these conversations, he said the that archetype warrior understands that in order to be a
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  mature, balanced man, I can slit a throat during the day and hug a baby at night. He's like,
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  all in one day, I can be warrior and lover. 100%. The other, and yes, funny, I knew JP before he
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  had his transition massive thighs and biceps. I knew him when we were both in like the Bay Area
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  yoga scene and he was a therapist and like, it's been interesting to watch his journey. I don't
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  know him personally, but have been in we've been in the same environments. And what's what I think
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  is happening for men in particular and for women as well. But I believe that men that have sons
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  are men that need to learn that exactly that lesson. And I think that men when they have daughters
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  are oftentimes men that actually need to learn how to be that soft force and that protective
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  force. And so I think we're getting the lessons that we need all of the time. You know,
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  I have a Bernadoodle and she barks all the time. It's like I must be learning this lesson of like
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  patience. But but yeah, I think that this, you know, one of the things I loved when I met you,
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  Mark is like you definitely embody this like hustler spirit. You're like, I just see you as someone
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  that's like, let's effing get it done. You know, and I don't, I don't know you, but I, you know,
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  I don't know your day to day, Mark, but I'm like, he's probably got a full schedule. And then I,
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  you know, hang out with some of our mutual friends and they're like, hey, send me your calendally
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  link. Hey, you know, there's this idea of when you're an entrepreneur that you do it this certain way.
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  And I really leave a lot of room in my schedule. And I, and I just think that that's okay for us to
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  be doing it in different ways. And maybe I could learn from you to add a little bit more of that
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  spaz injector bunny like, you know, kind of hustle spirit, but also I do think that entrepreneurs
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  in general are some of the most burned out, overcooked people that that we ever meet,
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  at least in our community. And so I'm curious like, now you're, I'm not going to say your age,
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  but now that you're moving into a different. I'm 30 and two weeks. I'm going to own it.
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  Your 50 like, do you find that there is like more room in entrepreneurial hustle culture to create
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  space for your heart, for your spirituality, for your embodiment, for your unravelling in a way?
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  That's, that's a great question, Katie. And you're right. My calendar is typically jam packed, but
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  I'm actually going to give some props to Dan Sullivan. If you know who Dan Sullivan is,
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  he actually loved Dan, strategic coach and loved Dan known Dan for a long time. He and Babs
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  are family friends and, and I will say that one of the lessons that I've really taken away from
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  strategic coach has been demanding three days and, and demanding what Dan would refer to as
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  buffer days. And my calendar and I need to be more aggressive about it. But I need to be more
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  aggressive about my non-aggression. Exactly. I need, I need to schedule my lack of planning.
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  But, and when I say aggressive, I mean aggressively defend those days, and that is my fun days and
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  Fridays are what I call buffers. And I deliberately, my team knows that Tuesdays through Thursdays,
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  you, you can back to back me and I will, I will play. Perform. And my team, exactly. Dance monkey dance,
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  Tuesday through Thursday, you can do whatever needs to happen. Mondays ask me.
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  And Fridays ask me. I love that. Because like, for instance, this coming Monday,
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  I'm actually speaking at a fundraising dinner up in Detroit. And it's actually it's fundraising
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  dinner. You know that I'd recently published the book Radical Generosity. So I was asked to be a
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  keynote and an event. But I didn't know that it was a full golf outing and everything that was
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  supposed to happen that day. So I'm going to go embarrass myself on a golf course. But
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  worse than that, the cool part about it to me was I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't really know
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  that this was going to be a whole day thing. I thought this was just an evening dinner. But I
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  looked at my calendar. I'm like, there's nothing on my calendar on a Monday. Like sure, sign me up.
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  Like I'm good because I deliberately keep that buffer space that I can flex. And likewise,
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  tomorrow, I'm traveling part day tomorrow. I'm actually flying up there early to spend time
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  with some friends and family. And my day was completely empty on a Friday. So it meant that I was
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  able to take some things from this week that got a little bit challenging. I'm like, you know what?
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  Put it on Friday. Put it on Friday. I have flexible hours to do Fridays. But client meetings,
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  there are Tuesdays through Thursdays because I'm not engaging myself in intensity on Mondays and
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  Fridays. Those are my set-up days. And then Saturdays and Sundays, I'm willing to be engaged if
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  need be because my clients know I'm always around. But those are the days I really like this weekend.
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  I spent time with family out in California. No, I think it's super important to have those days.
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  I mean, we literally call this in our company. We call it feminine form. And that has nothing to
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  do with being a man or a woman. It has to do with the way that the feminine. So in the
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  tantric tradition, the masculine is the ambitious. It's the externalization. And in the brain,
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  it's the intelligence of cleverness. And the feminine is the wisdom. And so men and women have
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  both. And in the tradition, in many traditions all over the world, the men would get together,
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  like men like you, like young, virile, protector, warrior, provider. They would all get together.
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  And they would come up with these deep questions about what should the tribe do? And whether it be warfare,
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  you know, someone's mad at someone, right? And they would then take that question to the grandmothers
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  who were in a different tent, right? And what the grandmothers would do, Mark, this is so fun.
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  Imagine you, right, in your company, you're like, we'll take it to the grandmother, right? And the
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  grandmother would come back and she would, the grandmothers would say, Mark, not even a good question,
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  try again, or they'd give you an answer, right? But like the whole start was like, they would have
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  to first even validate your question. And so I was, and then what's so cool about this, Mark,
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  is that you can do this inside yourself, right? So often we're like, what should I do about this?
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  What should I do about that? But when you tap into this inner grandmama, right? Highest level
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  wisdom, sometimes the question doesn't even matter, right? And so in our company, we like, we're all
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  women, right? And I'm not adverse to hiring a man. It's just who's been, who's been available and
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  who's been chosen. But in our company, like if a woman has her, what we call moon days, right? She's
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  got her menstrual cycle. She's allowed to take a day off. If she needs a break, you know, I don't
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  like the term mental health day, I don't love that. But like she just calls in. And what I find,
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  Mark, is that the more room I give the women and my company to have the reality of a woman's
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  body, Mark, they will work their buns off on the days when they, you know, are feeling their best.
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  And so I just think there's another way of doing it. I'm going to, I'm going to ask you question,
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  because I love all of this. And I, and I do want to dive into more of your Ayurvedic practice,
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  because I, like Ayurveda to me is fascinating, because it's almost like ancient wisdom meets
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  modern science. And it just makes so much darn sense. And I don't think it gets enough
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  billing, but in most people's world. But I'm going to ask you a question, because we're talking
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  about this hustler versus wisdom, so on, so forth. But you just used a phrase that I need to,
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  I need to unpack for a minute. You said that they asked you to, they evaluated your question.
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  That was the phrase you use, that the young men took their, their, their, their, their,
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  conundrum, if you will, to the grandmothers. And the grandmothers first evaluated the question
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  before they even thought about giving an answer. And the first thing that went through my head,
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  and it could just be because of where I am currently, because I am always contextualizing
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  today's conversation happens to have a lot of current events on my head. And one of those
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  current events is not necessarily world politics and whatnot, but one of those current events is
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  the use of AI. And you put together this whole series of questions, and we're like, here's some
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  questions you can ask me, here's some questions I can ask you. And you're like, I did this all in AI,
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  isn't this amazing, but upon them, like that is amazing. Like I'm looking at it and it's absolutely
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  fantastic. But when you just made the statement about first the grandmothers would evaluate the
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  question, it made me think of this whole input output trouble with people are having in the use of AI.
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  And I was, I was talking to a friend of mine last night who's a college professor and teaching
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  in the realm of AI right now, and we were having this conversation about, I believe that AI is
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  doing something to people because people who are capable and willing to think deeper
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  are getting greater and greater insight. And the people who don't understand and ask the bad
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  question are getting bad answers. And I'm curious in this world of Ayurveda, in this world of
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  artificial intelligence as it's presenting because it's hard to have an emotional connection with
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  the bot, obviously. Can you correlate that with me about asking bad questions? Because I say that at work
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  all the time. I'm like, guys, I don't need you to just do. I need you to question why you did what
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  you did because no one made a mistake it if you can explain to me why you did it. But if what you did
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  didn't even, if it didn't even come close to where we were trying to get and you can't explain
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  how you even got there, that's a fail. And I'm finding this like, I put all this in the AI and
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  it's so stupid, this is what it did. I'm like, well, maybe it's just real idiot.
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  Like, does that resonate at all? I'm so glad you're bringing this up and it's so cool because most
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  people see me, they see what we put out into the world were a feminine form Ayurveda school where
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  Uighur is hell, right? But people don't know that before I was, before I was the Ayurveda maven,
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  I worked in AI before anyone knew what it was. I lived in the South of Spain. I worked in an AI
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  think tank in Marbella, Spain for seven years. And we were creating AI technology that was helping
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  predict the stock market. And they hired me because I helped these MIT kind of Asberger's level
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  dudes teach the computer how to, quote, feel human emotion. That was my role. And they called me
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  the sacrificial virgin because I didn't even know how to turn on a computer mark. Okay, this is,
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  I'm not going to date myself, but it was a long time ago. So I say I went from AI to AI, AI to
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  Ayurveda intelligence, right? It's been a journey for me. But I have a background in AI. I love
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  technology. I enjoy it. I think it's got its, it's nuclear energy, just like sexual energy,
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  we can use it to destroy, we can use it to create. We, in this example that you asked me about,
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  we are the grandmothers. We are the grandmothers. And in fact, I just came from another conference where
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  I was speaking with someone, I won't say which company. Let's just say it's one of the main ones
• 20:54
  doing AI right now. He was one of the high ups in this company and he said, we are finding that
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  when we hire women to, to give the prompts to the AI, the outcomes are stellar. And so they're
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  they're like candidly hiring all these women to do AI prompts. I'm like, yeah, because we're,
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  you know, this is generalizing, but we're super good at being relational, right? And so I think
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  the deeper, when people don't understand the levels of our consciousness, there's a lot of fear
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  around AI. AI is on one of the lower levels of consciousness. It's the mental body. And AI
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  is superb at being able to extract informational intelligence from the collective mental body.
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  But we have a physical body, an emotional body, a mental body, a body of the heart, a body of
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  God, a body of the astral, right? Like AI is just on one level. So am I afraid that it's going to
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  take over? No. But what we have to do, Mark, is you and I, you know, and people out there, we have to
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  learn of the incredible dimensionality of our consciousness. And that's where Ayurveda can come in
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  and all these beautiful spiritual practices. I absolutely love that. And I chuckle with this because
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  there was just an article that was published recently talking about how AI is being used as a
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  psychiatric alternative that they're doing AI counseling sessions. And it's having great results
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  and restoring people's mental health and helping people's therapeutically work through things and
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  so on, so forth. And I think you know this, but my background is actually the clinical psychology.
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  So I'm like, all right, I get it. I understand it. I'm like, and it does concern me in some
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  respects because I think the internet and social media has already crippled people's emotional
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  maturity because I think people have actually been in many ways lost their ability to interact
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  with other people because they think social life is sitting on the couch with a phone in my hand.
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  Right. And I'm an incredibly relational person. Like I say, that's one of my gifts is being able to
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  just, you know, be in a ground. But at the same time, I'll say like this, this AI grandmothers
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  type conversation. I love that paradigm, by the way, like that's such a cool metaphor.
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  It makes me wonder because I was just even telling my team yesterday, like there's days and you
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  talk about the feminine bringing out this whole thing like the master of an armed cross,
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  I'm not talking the counselor as opposed to the feminine, who's just going to verbal vomit all
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  over the place, right? And hope that somebody can help pick up those pieces, right? If we're,
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  if we're, if we're, if we're stereotyping. Yeah. And I mean, I think we could even like,
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  we could even call that the immature feminine and the immature masculine, right? Fair.
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  I mean, just to make it a little more sharp. But like one thing I want to backtrack and highlight
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  on this whole because I think this, by the way, everybody, Mark and I came up with some fun AI
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  inspired questions from one another. And we were like, these are great. We've not used any of
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  the so far. Because why? It's because no, no, no, it's because our hearts are connected. And in
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  that field of the heart, we're, we're in this spontaneous serendipitous yoga, right? That
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  which emerges out of our spontaneous heart connection. So with the question about psychotherapy.
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  So this was another thing that was brought up at a recent conference. I just came from a lot of AI,
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  big, big names from AI. It was so heartening, Mark, they're all sweet, sweet, cool people, right?
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  They want to do good in the world. They're not like nefarious people. And they were talking about
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  how great this was for psychotherapy. And I'm sitting over there going, oh, I don't know about
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  this. And I'm like, curious, who are the people it is benefiting? Are they men? Are they women?
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  Where, what is their, what is their tendency? And I think in yoga, we talk about there are 100,
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  there are as many yogas, meaning disciplines for enlightenment as there are beings. Everybody
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  has a different way. And I do think AI can be really helpful when you need to do that like
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  cognitive reprogramming, like almost like a cognitive behavioral therapy type thing. AI will
• 25:13
  never replace the type of therapy that occurs when the somatic of my body and your body are in
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  the room together, having a somatic experience or a heart-based experience or an emotion-based
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  experience. And so I think if we're able to elucidate the layers of our consciousness's
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  dimensionality, it's going to help us have the AI conversation in a way that's supportive and
• 25:36
  healthy rather than, is it good, is it bad? Can I add one totally random thing there? I love
• 25:43
  your vocabulary. And I just have to say that as a as a lover of words, the fact that you're using
• 25:50
  words like elucidate and deferious. And I love getting complimented. So this is an awesome
• 26:00
  thing. Maybe an unusual compliment, but I love it. So, but I was telling my team the other day,
• 26:05
  and again, we talk about this, just, you know, having chats kind of thing. And I said, you know,
• 26:10
  sometimes when I don't even know what it is, I'm trying to communicate. And I think this is the
• 26:15
  bad question, Conundrum. I will literally driving to the gym at night, because I work out after work.
• 26:22
  So it's like, I'll be leaving work. And I'm just in traffic getting to my gym after hours. And
• 26:28
  and I will find myself like literally just clicking the chat GPT button on Bluetooth and just
• 26:35
  talking through my problem out loud and letting it help quantify the things that my head is having
• 26:43
  a hard time organizing. And it could be just something I'm struggling with at work. It can be that
• 26:48
  I'm just trying to figure out something. And I literally just talk out loud. And I'm like, can you
• 26:52
  organize those thoughts and tell me if you can find some common themes that may help me sort
• 26:57
  through this? And the feedback that I get is absolutely incredible. And part of it is that
• 27:04
  there is a time, and this is where I get into that masculine feminine thing, because sometimes I
• 27:09
  feel like that's very feminine energy, right? That's I just need to talk it out. And I'm asking
• 27:15
  chat GPT to be that masculine mirror for me. It's face. Because because I'm the person who,
• 27:20
  typically I tell people, and this is an ongoing joke with several friends of mine, like if you come
• 27:25
  to me and say, Hey, I've got a, you know, I need some advice. I always respond or, you know,
• 27:31
  can you tell me something sure? And my my response is typically absolutely, but I need to know you,
• 27:37
  you actually want advice or do you just need me to listen? Like clarify for me, because if you're
• 27:43
  coming to me with a problem and you don't want a solution, tell me ahead of time because you're
• 27:47
  going to get a three point solution, and you're going to walk away with action steps, because that's
• 27:51
  the way I work, right? GSD. But you're going to you're going to walk away with a plan. If you don't
• 27:58
  tell me that's not what we're here to do. And like I said, sometimes I've got stuff wandering
• 28:04
  around, and I need someone to help me put together that plan and help organize my thoughts. And
• 28:09
  I will use it to mirror that. And I find that it's a great listener. Have you ever done that?
• 28:17
  Have you ever given it that? No, but you're like the 50th dude to tell me that he's doing this. And
• 28:24
  I think it's interesting to me. And so I want to say two things about it. One, if we were looking
• 28:30
  this through a Jungian psychological lens, what I think is happening, and I think this kind of
• 28:36
  can assuage some of the fears that inevitably come up in my community, especially, right? But in
• 28:43
  all all of the world around AI, I think from a Jungian psychological perspective that AI is actually
• 28:50
  the best that we've ever had, it's like Carl Jung's wet dream for the collective subconscious,
• 28:57
  right? We're able to actually extract. Well, and we must qualify that by saying it's the
• 29:04
  collective that's been conglomerated on the internet. So it's a big, but that's that's pretty good
• 29:10
  data, right? Right. And so if we look at it from that way, we can think about it in a sense,
• 29:17
  it's not just some AI robot out there spitting out information. The robotics have been trained
• 29:25
  on the humanity of our collective subconscious. So that's a freaking spiritual idea that I just
• 29:33
  spouted out. This is hell a spiritual shit, right? Can it be used nefariously? Absolutely. So
• 29:40
  there's that, but there's also the thing in Mark, I'm not saying this is you, but I mean, like not
• 29:46
  50, but maybe 10 men have told me they've done exactly that. And it makes me think about the current
• 29:52
  situation, especially young amongst young men, where they are reporting super high levels of
• 30:00
  loneliness. They want someone to listen to them. They want someone to give them good feedback
• 30:08
  in a world where we've lost the fathering principle, right? You said it felt feminine. And that
• 30:14
  made sense to me because there's someone holding the fathering in this artificial way, right? And so
• 30:23
  that to me says, cool, use it, use it as much as you want, but know that we might need to be
• 30:29
  tapping into this innate longing for for fathering and also for for lovering, right? Like a lot of
• 30:37
  us that are entrepreneurs, we also tend to like have a loneliness epidemic, which is why you and I
• 30:43
  met, right? We go to this thing where we get to have friends and we get to stay connected. And so
• 30:48
  I think let's use the AI, but let's also like, I'd love to sit and hold space for you, right?
• 30:54
  No, I agree with you. And personally, I'm a very relational person. Like I always say relationships
• 31:01
  over transactions every day of the week. And as a marketing professional, it is nonstop the hammer
• 31:10
  that I continue to swing even with my clients. Like if you're looking at your consumers as being
• 31:16
  transactions, you will fail because there's a lot of people who are willing to have relationships
• 31:21
  with them. Well, that's, I want to ask you about this. So this is a great transition for what I
• 31:27
  actually did want to ask you in this podcast. So guys, it's a spirit session, performance-driven
• 31:32
  living, uh, mix tape. Okay. So my, my ladies, so I have a, who's pouring up any minute? Right,
• 31:39
  exactly. We're from the eighties guys. We made mix tapes for each other when we had crushes. So
• 31:44
  like, okay, my, so here's, here's who my audience is. We get a lot of yoga,
• 31:48
  yoga ladies. We have went, so our, our company, we provide a year to two year,
• 31:54
  Ayurvedic Health Coaching platform where a lot of the women do it for themselves,
• 31:58
  but a lot go on to create their own Ayurvedic Coaching businesses.
• 32:02
  Mm-hmm. That's awesome. And then here's me selfishly thinking about my own company. So if we
• 32:07
  were speaking to wellness practitioners, in my case, women, wellness practitioners who want to
• 32:13
  market their services, guys, we are in the presence of Mark Young marketing guru. I'm calling
• 32:20
  you the guru. Ooh, I'm the guru. Oh, wait, wait. Why do I, is this what I do with my hands?
• 32:25
  That's right. Hold that up at your next marketing meeting. But I want to talk about what would be
• 32:31
  the like quick and dirty on your, I mean, you mentioned relational and not viewing your
• 32:37
  customers as transactional. How can people really start to launch their own marketing in a way
• 32:44
  that's super relational and loving and non-transactional and authentic? Yeah, super huge question.
• 32:54
  Like, that would be, yeah, like, let's dig room. What am I asking you? Like, how should a person
• 32:59
  heal? How should a person start Ayurveda? Exactly. The biggest thing I will tell you is I'll walk
• 33:07
  away from that with the relational over transactional. Like, I will eat that drum over and over and
• 33:15
  over and over again. And it's the reason why at my marketing business, I laughingly say that
• 33:21
  we are the marketing agency with no marketing department. And the reality is is because every single
• 33:28
  client we have has been a relationship that I have developed somewhere or has been a referral from
• 33:33
  someone else who has told somebody they needed to talk to me. And the idea of having a lead funnel
• 33:39
  for my own business is actually like, we're talking about it right now with our leadership team.
• 33:44
  But it's new information that we're having to try to forge ahead with that. It's just kind of funny.
• 33:51
  And when you're talking about Ayurveda practitioners as an example, it's so
• 33:58
  relationship. I mean, that is such, it's such a relationship. Like, I would never tell a person
• 34:04
  to create a lead funnel and start to get, you know, Facebook, whatever's and stuff like that.
• 34:09
  Like, depending on the type of practice you're looking for, I can see where some leads can be
• 34:13
  beneficial. But for people that are getting into that type of practice, the reality is your
• 34:20
  referral base is 100% of your marketing. And I literally will tell people that you are your
• 34:28
  own marketing department, just in the way you show up in the world. Like, if you don't show up in
• 34:35
  the world, the way that people are envious, if I can use that word, of the way you show up,
• 34:41
  well, like, I don't go to a personal trainer with a belly, right? And I don't do that simply
• 34:47
  because that personal trainer is not representative of the aspiration I have of being like that person.
• 34:52
  So for or the individual who's going into private practice, the reality is is like,
• 34:59
  Katie, I said this when we first started off, like, you're a calming presence in my life.
• 35:04
  So if I was trying to find some way to heal particularly on an emotional level, you're a person,
• 35:08
  I can call simply to show up in the world, the way that I would want to show up in the world or
• 35:15
  aspire to have qualities that you have. And I think where a lot of people
• 35:22
  miss the mark in entrepreneurship is, you know, first to be your own customer, like show up in
• 35:29
  the world in a way that people want. And I actually say this to my own team, like, I leave my office
• 35:35
  between 6 and 630 every single day. When I'm in town, there are occasional days that I'll be
• 35:41
  there late if need be, but I deliberately leave at a very specific time every day. And my team knows
• 35:47
  that I'm going to be leaving. And it's unapologetically, I'm leaving to go to the gym.
• 35:53
  And they know that I'm not going to the movies. I'm not, you know, going to have dinner with friends,
• 35:57
  like, I'm leaving because I'm leaving to go to the gym. And part of the reason I said we were in
• 36:01
  a meeting one day, and I need to comment like, part of me, I have to look the way I look,
• 36:07
  and I have to be in a health status, the way that I show up, like my entire desk is covered in
• 36:14
  supplements and all this other kind of stuff. And like, because yes, I work in marketing, but the
• 36:18
  majority of my clientele is actually in the longevity space. If I look like a wreck, or if I'm fat,
• 36:25
  or if I'm unhealthy, or if I've got pimples all over my face, or something like that, like,
• 36:30
  I'm not representative of my audience. That's so funny. Like everyone listening,
• 36:37
  those of you that can't see marks, marks turning 50 in 13 days, he looks great. He's a hottie,
• 36:43
  like, go to his website, look at how hunky this man is. And Mark, this is the mudra. Let's go back
• 36:51
  to this hand. Mudra means a hand gesture. You're over here. And and Carl Jung said it best.
• 36:57
  Reality can be found in the tension of the opposites. And here you are over here spouting deep
• 37:04
  masculine energy truths. Okay. Ready? What are they? I look, I look hella good because I'm the
• 37:11
  outcome of what I preach, right? Like, ain't nobody going to come to me if I'm chubby, because
• 37:16
  I'm the marketing guy, right? Like, and my space is longevity. And here's Katie. Here's Katie
• 37:21
  over here in the complete same space of Ayurveda. And I'm holding that. And I'm and I'm agreeing with
• 37:28
  it 100% and the feminine side of that is you are always going to be broken. You are always going
• 37:37
  to be having a part of you that's unhealed that struggles. And in that brokenness and in that
• 37:45
  struggle, that's also where the marketing medicine is. Because it's the way in which Mark,
• 37:52
  I struggle to keep my weight balanced. I do. I, I'm a food, food is my lover. I like a hamburger
• 38:00
  and french fries with cheese. I'm from Tennessee. And here I am trying to be this Ayurveda woman.
• 38:06
  How can that work? And the answer is it's that it's that imperfection. It's that struggle that I
• 38:15
  have with my own health, with my own weight, right? With my own emotions that enables me to be the
• 38:21
  kind of woman that other women resonate with because that's who they are. You know what I'm saying?
• 38:27
  100% agree. And, and I'm cute and I'm healthy. And she's beautiful. And I fished for that one.
• 38:34
  I fished for it. And I was going to say it anyways because I know where you look when you're
• 38:39
  stunning. But the way how many is is like, and when I say that, it's, it's the discipline of
• 38:45
  making sure that I'm walking the walk is what I'm getting to. It's not trying to be perfect
• 38:51
  because trust me, I'm far from perfect. But, and, and I'll tell you, like, I was a fat kid.
• 38:56
  Like, I was, I was an overweight adult and I actually had an abdominal plastic surgery years ago.
• 39:05
  Like, because I had loose skin from losing so much weight and so on and so forth. So it's like,
• 39:10
  and I share that freely. Like, I share that at 50 freely. Like, that doesn't bother me because
• 39:15
  it's not an insecurity about my imperfections or age or anything. In fact, I share that
• 39:20
  so freely because I find it relatable. Totally. Because my intention is to live a life that
• 39:26
  inspires through aspiration. Like, somebody wants, you know, if I find able, I was asked yesterday
• 39:32
  in a podcast, like, how do you inspire people? I'm like, I simply set the tables six steps away
• 39:37
  from where you currently are. Like, if I, if I set the table over there, you move to where I am.
• 39:43
  And that's, that's all I'm trying to do. Like, I don't need anybody because when the, when the
• 39:47
  outcome seems unattainable, people paralyze. Yes. When it, when it's only a few steps down the
• 39:55
  road, you meet me there and then I move the table a little bit. Like, all I'm trying to do is,
• 39:59
  is set something that seems attainable. And if that is, you know what, if I can get up and go
• 40:05
  to the gym every day, you can get up and go to the gym every day. If I can tell the story,
• 40:09
  then you can tell me yours and open it up. But again, that type of, I'll use the word marketing
• 40:18
  is relatable. It's not transactional. Yeah. And I think honesty is like, okay, so you,
• 40:26
  you're in marketing, inevitably I'm in marketing as well. When we want to share this with the world,
• 40:32
  right? And what I hear in the, in the online community, and it's been about a couple, two or three
• 40:38
  years, it's authenticity, authenticity, authenticity. And now it's kind of like gagging me a little,
• 40:44
  I'm vomiting in my mouth a little bit when I hear authenticity because you get a lot of like,
• 40:49
  feigned authenticity. And it, it's the opposite, right, of authenticity. So as, so Mark,
• 40:56
  so Mark has a book, I know you have a new book on radical generosity. Everyone should go buy it.
• 41:01
  But when I met you, your first book that I read was called Date Your Clients. And I remember
• 41:07
  holding it and being like, what? No, hashtag boundaries. What mark? What are you talking about?
• 41:13
  And now I understand it's all about relationality and really like bringing people into your world and,
• 41:20
  and making them a part of your life and, and kind of uplifting them. And, but how do we find the
• 41:27
  balance between being real and being authentic and not moving into the realm of like TMI where we've
• 41:36
  lost the sort of sense of like the sacred, the, the secret, the personal. Yeah, I love that. And
• 41:43
  thank you for the Date Your Clients shout out. That's the date your clients actually was really
• 41:49
  funny Katie is when I wrote that book. That was the first book I wrote and, and the, the whole
• 41:54
  premise, I, first of all, I love provocative titles because that was, that was definitely a
• 41:58
  provocative one. Which was hilarious to me. But Date Your Clients was a juxtaposition between
• 42:05
  personal relationships versus professional relationships. And I, I hate these online. Oh, sorry,
• 42:11
  I'm using the word goober now. But the these online, you know, they're, I'm going to teach you
• 42:17
  everything you know about landing the client and closing the deal and all this other kind of stuff.
• 42:21
  And it's like, that stuff's great. Like, whatever, do your thing, billionaire mentor hashtag. Like,
• 42:26
  do whatever you got to do. But the reality is is my, my belief is that relationships and that
• 42:33
  in the professional realm are far more intuitive than people give it credit for. Totally. Because
• 42:40
  we all understand how to build a personal relationship, right? And as you know, through that book,
• 42:44
  like I, I somewhat snarkly, you know, walk through what the first date looks like and, and, and,
• 42:51
  you know, make them swipe right is the title of chapter one. And it's this whole idea of
• 42:56
  your website's an absolute train rack. But, but you're dating profile. You would never put a
• 43:03
  dating profile looked like that. Why? Because you wanted to land the perfect one. Well, then why are
• 43:07
  you willing to put your business website out there looking like a train rack? And you would never
• 43:13
  go on a first date without making sure that you had a haircut, making sure you wore your best
• 43:17
  outfit. Why are you looking like a trash can? Unfortunately, Mark, I don't think you're dating man
• 43:22
  right now. No, not at all. Some of this, some men have ranch dressing on their beard when you
• 43:29
  show up. Yeah, it's disgusting. And here's my deal. When I go on a date with a woman and, yeah,
• 43:34
  we'll talk about dating for the rest of the podcast. Perfect. Here's the deal. Like I go on a date.
• 43:39
  I, I automatically assume that she looks as good today as she's ever going to look. But I,
• 43:46
  I have to make my decision on if I can wake up to this every morning because this is as good as
• 43:53
  you're ever going to look as I believe that on a first date, you took the extra time. I believe
• 43:58
  you took the extra minutes, you know, and women and there's a whole chapter in the book that actually
• 44:02
  goes through this whole, what the ritual looks like for a woman versus a man and, you know, the woman's
• 44:07
  first date actually starts a week before the date because there's all of the appointments that have
• 44:11
  to happen beforehand and like for the man, it's like, you know, 15 extra minutes of push-ups.
• 44:16
  But, but the reality is, is like, we intuitively know this, but when we go meet a new client,
• 44:23
  do we go through the same kind of prep work? Or is it just another Tuesday and our world? Because
• 44:28
  to them, that's a first impression. I love it. And when we get into this personal marketing that
• 44:34
  you're talking about, you are your practitioner network. Yeah. You get into that. The reality is
• 44:39
  is like, that's all you're doing. You're dating all of these new potential clients one at a time.
• 44:44
  You know, I love this mark because I know my listeners and my students are going to listen to
• 44:50
  this and you get so much value from it because what I, what we see as a stumbling block in
• 44:55
  shockedy school is that people think because they see Katie Silcox's website or our large
• 45:02
  Instagram following or our lead page and our funnels and our newsletters, they need to do that
• 45:07
  immediately. And I'm like, you guys, let me tell you how I built my amazing beloved brand. A,
• 45:17
  your reputations, everything. I mark, I have this one my wall in our office. We walk in integrity.
• 45:25
  That's the number one thing. Like you said, be the thing that you want to project into the world.
• 45:31
  Mark, I used to go with a piece of paper and a pen to every yoga class I taught in San Francisco.
• 45:38
  And I would just get their name and get their email, have a personal connection, a personal
• 45:42
  relationship. I met with these people one on one and I built my brand from the bottom up going and
• 45:48
  doing any speaking event, any yoga course, anything anyone asked me to do. There was no social media
• 45:54
  back then. And I think people, young people, especially gets to afraid of launching their businesses
• 46:01
  because they don't have big social media following. So what would you say to people that are
• 46:05
  just starting off and don't have big followings? I'll give you one sentence and that is I would
• 46:11
  rather be loved by few than liked by many. Can I get an amen? But and I use that phrase all the time.
• 46:19
  Like when you're starting, be loved by few, create raving fans out of the few people that you do
• 46:25
  have in your Rolex and let them advertise for you because building a giant social media following.
• 46:33
  And I had a call yesterday. I actually met a gentleman at strategic coach and he's like,
• 46:37
  oh, you're a marketing guy. My son's a recent marketing graduate. And you know, he's really
• 46:42
  struggling to find a job. Would you mind spending some time with him? And I'm like, sure, you know,
• 46:46
  whatever, like set him up. And I did like a 30 minute with the kid yesterday just giving him a
• 46:50
  quick mentoring call. And and I'm having this conversation with this recent college graduate,
• 46:56
  he probably graduated six months ago. Can't find a job in marketing that has aspirations of being
• 47:00
  in the sports marketing and filming whatever. And I'm like, big lofty dreams. I'm like, dude,
• 47:05
  so I'm going to ask you some questions like, what are you doing? Oh, I keep a spreadsheet. These
• 47:09
  are the 750 applications that I've put in blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, all that's fantastic. I'm
• 47:14
  like, so what is your personal website like? Well, it needs some updating. Hmm, interesting.
• 47:20
  Like you got nothing but time though. I'm like, so what is your YouTube channel look like?
• 47:26
  Well, I mean, I've gotten, what does your portfolio look like? Well, I've got some stuff I did in
• 47:31
  college. I'm like, okay, so what I said, here's the deal. You want to create my content as a
• 47:37
  owner of a marketing agency. You want me to hire you to create my content. What does yours look
• 47:42
  like? Exactly. You're never going to do more for me than you're willing to do for you because
• 47:48
  frankly, you like you more than you like me. And you know, any kind of laugh, then I'm like,
• 47:54
  so your website will be updated. You have no YouTube channel. You really don't have a social
• 47:58
  media following to speak of. You have no voice in the marketing space whatsoever. And the only
• 48:05
  professional examples that you can give me are things that were assigned to you by a professor.
• 48:11
  And I'm like, dude, like, I don't mean to sound removed here. Like, but your idea of marketing
• 48:17
  yourself is filling out applications online. You believe that's what marketing looks like.
• 48:24
  And he just, and I went dude, like you are just another number to an HR department right now
• 48:31
  because you've done nothing to set yourself apart. You don't know how to market.
• 48:38
  And, and, and trying to tell him like, build your audience, build your channel, fix the damn website.
• 48:44
  And just do it. Just start. Yes. For your voice out there. I say the same exact things. Like,
• 48:53
  the perfection is the enemy of done. Yeah. Show up. Own your space. Speak.
• 48:59
  It's free. I'm only, I'm only going to do work if you pay me for it. But great. You just,
• 49:04
  that is not how you, you are not an entrepreneur if you believe that entrepreneurs are working
• 49:11
  for free most of the time, most of the time, most of the time. And, and I, I laugh because they
• 49:16
  even sometimes my team will be like, why are we doing this again for free? I'm like, and,
• 49:21
  and I will back it up every single time. Sometimes it sometimes it doesn't work out. And I'm like,
• 49:25
  because I know that this person knows that person who knows this person. And I just want my name
• 49:31
  to be mentioned in positive lights and future conversations. That's it. Yeah. And it's the
• 49:36
  reason I have a marketing agency that doesn't have a marketing department. I love it.
• 49:41
  But that's why because networking and networking is nothing more than relationship building.
• 49:48
  And to, to circle back on our entire conversation here, add something AI cannot do. Never. Yeah.
• 49:56
  AI is never going to build human connection and build a relationship and let the energy that I
• 50:02
  project attract the energy that you're giving. Like, that's never going to happen in an AI setting.
• 50:09
  And when it comes down to that type of relationships, it's, it's the reason why I don't want to be
• 50:14
  in the office. I, I want to be out at spending time with people building relationships and speaking
• 50:21
  and inspiring and doing all these other things because those are my unique abilities. And there's
• 50:27
  something AI can't replace. Yeah. I want to highlight this idea for the audience from Mark and I
• 50:35
  around your authentic heart, your real voice. What you feel is your unique value to the world.
• 50:44
  It might not look exactly like us or anyone else, but to figure that out and then just like
• 50:50
  trust in it and go with it. And then I also want to say just maybe as a closing thing,
• 50:55
  I love that we didn't get into any of the questions. And our AI, our AI assistant helped us with.
• 51:03
  And I just want to say, maybe I'm kind of like making the, the subtle over, but you know,
• 51:11
  everyone out there listening, like me, Mark and I sitting here having this conversation is,
• 51:20
  hopefully an example and an embodiment of what happens when a man who is, who's done a lot of
• 51:29
  work, maturing his masculine and what a woman who's done a lot of work, maturing her feminine,
• 51:34
  what it looks like when they come together. And I think us embodying that as friends and showing
• 51:39
  people in real time is what the world desperately needs. I believe that when men and women in particular
• 51:47
  can hold each other, even in our friendship, in this place of love, you have just made me feel
• 51:53
  so energized. And that's what shocked me means, by the way, it's feminine energy, it's,
• 51:58
  it's power. And I hope I've like maybe inspired you in your masculine. And yeah.
• 52:04
  Yeah, always. And Katie, I want, it's one of the things I appreciate about you is that you,
• 52:08
  you definitely are a yin to the yang or a yang to the yin. I can never remember which is what.
• 52:13
  It's the yin. But, but absolutely that, that yin to the yang balance. And I think that is
• 52:20
  something that in our world, if I can give that closing thought, we're so busy trying to be
• 52:27
  equal that we're not realizing that we can be different. That quality doesn't mean identical.
• 52:34
  That we can be equally different and complement each other in that way. And I think that yin yang is
• 52:41
  missing in so many spaces that, you know, to your feminine energy that you bring to every
• 52:47
  conversation and every room that I've ever seen you in, it's refreshing because it's not,
• 52:54
  it's not disingenuous. It genuinely is who you are. And I love to see that you're also this
• 53:01
  badass entrepreneur who is using that in such a way that you're spreading that message to the
• 53:06
  world. And it because being feminine doesn't mean that you're, that you're, your shy and
• 53:13
  bashful or helpless or helpless. Like, no, that that's the energy that drives you. And in the same
• 53:20
  way as you're saying, my drive and my zeal and my conquer the world to kind of take on things
• 53:26
  also is what drives me. But I also need that that edge removed for me sometimes that's, you know,
• 53:35
  down, it's going to be okay. Like, I need my buffer days. I need my days where I'm just spending
• 53:41
  time with family and friends because the world isn't about conquest all the time.
• 53:47
  Well, Mark, this has been an absolute pleasure. And just as a final statement, you can drive my car
• 53:55
  anytime. You can open the door for me. I love you dinner. Yes, all of that. Thank you. You
• 54:02
  did a man out there that are still driving us around and opening doors and letting us just rest
• 54:07
  and be in that feminine energy space, knowing that we can all do both. And yet we choose to give
• 54:13
  each other this gift. So thank you. I had to tell you this now because in talk to a friend the other day,
• 54:19
  I made, I made the comment about it. Women would stop trying to be men on so many of these,
• 54:24
  these quiet toes, these bubbles or whatever because sometimes it feels like you're wrestling with
• 54:28
  a woman rather than dancing. No. And it's a beautiful dance when it works. But it's like,
• 54:33
  sometimes it feels like a wrestling match. And I'm like, if women even understood that if they
• 54:38
  just leaned into what makes them amazing, they could run the world. Like, you can run the world,
• 54:48
  no one's wrestling with you on that. Yeah. It's like, but do it on the level that you have been
• 54:53
  finely gifted. Yeah. Yeah. Katie, thank you so darn much for joining us today. I know that we're
• 55:01
  co-hosting this weird conversation with each other. And I absolutely love the way that it all
• 55:06
  played out. It was awesome. It's beautiful. We're closing on Performance Driven Living's
• 55:12
  podcast with Katie Sokots. All of Katie's information is actually in the notes down here below.
• 55:19
  Look up the Shop D school. Learn more about Ayurvedic Medicine and learn about just the the
• 55:25
  energy and the maturity in that energy that Katie focuses on in her books as well as visit her
• 55:31
  on her website. And learn more because she is a a jewel to the natural health and wellness
• 55:39
  space. And I encourage you to find her. Thank you so much for being here, Katie. Well,
• 55:43
  likewise on our podcast, we're going to put all Mark's information, his new book, Radical Generosity.
• 55:49
  And now everyone's going to want to redate your clients for anyone out there listening.
• 55:55
  Mark is the guy to go to for a real authentic marketing advice. And Mark does so much more that we
• 56:01
  didn't even get into in the health and wellness space. But you can check him out website below.
• 56:06
  We love you, Mark. Thank you for being and having. Thank you, love. I appreciate you. I'll see you soon.
• 56:11
  All right. See you.