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The When, Why and How of Marketing with Steve DeWitt · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  Jordan, you don't look anything like Michael Cirillo. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. I don't. I g- got a little bit more hair. You don't sound like him either. Oh. What are you doing?
• 0:14
  I think it's- And I got a little bit lower voice, or a little bit higher voice. Not as low as his. Yep. Yeah. More hair, sunglasses, higher voice. You laugh more than he does. And a, a weird cackle.
• 0:23
  [laughs] A weird cackle. Well, I mean- Yeah... look, it's always nice to have you sit in for, for MC, because, you know, we get sick of him.
• 0:30
  [laughs] [laughs] Him and all of his deep, insightful questions making us think about- Insightful... the real meaning of life, blah, blah, blah- Right... blah, blah. [laughs] That's right. Meaning of life. Whatever.
• 0:42
  Uh, hey, we're not talking about the meaning of life today, although we may. Who knows? You never know- We get there... what we're gonna get into here on Auto Collabs.
• 0:50
  Uh, but we've got Steve DeWitt, VP of Sales with Automotive Mastermind. And, uh, I don't... Do you guys know a lot about Steve? Nope. I think I met him one time at an event.
• 0:59
  That's- That's- One of the things I love about this show when we get to, to spend some time with someone we don't know. Like, I love, I love hanging with the people we know and we love and, you know, 'cause- Sure...
• 1:08
  we kinda start jabbing and doing that, but the, it's the new folks that I think are really great.
• 1:12
  And if we don't know them, there's a good chance that a lot of you don't know them as well, which is part of the, you know, part of the, the point of this show.
• 1:20
  How can we introduce more people to other great people so that you can work together? It's called Auto Collabs for a reason.
• 1:27
  So we hope that whether you're meeting him for the first time or if you already know him, you get to enjoy this interview with Steve DeWitt. [upbeat music] All right, we're hanging out with Steve.
• 1:40
  Steve DeWitt, thanks for joining us here on Auto Collabs today, man. I'm super excited to be here. Good. Good. Awesome. Okay. Track with me. I'm, uh, basically the only thing I know about you is I know from LinkedIn.
• 1:54
  So I need to know more from you, because it's a whole bunch of been in auto for a very long time. Not just in auto, it's, like, been, like, running things at stores. Running things in auto at stores. Yes.
• 2:08
  You have a deep history on the retail side of the business. Um, talk to us a little bit about what your retail experience is in, in auto at this point, uh, from- Yeah, you know, um, got into auto in the early '90s.
• 2:21
  I was part of those conversations in the early days of, "Hey, what if we should start an internet department," right? [laughs] You know, like, these kinds of conversations.
• 2:29
  And my, uh, my GM at the time was like- "What's the internet?" [laughs]... "We don't need one of those." Like, "What are you talking about?" Right?
• 2:35
  So, um, I age myself there a little bit, but, uh, was in the business for about 23 years. 15 of those, like, GSM or GM kind of roles at, at big, big stores here in Dallas.
• 2:45
  So, um, you know, what's interesting is a lot of times people are like, "Why'd you get in the car business?"
• 2:52
  And it was really, and not, not to steal y'all's tagline about people, but I, when I first got in the car business, everyone around me tried to keep me dumb 'cause they didn't want me to take their job or to learn whatever.
• 3:05
  Ah. And I was one of those guys where I want everyone around me better and I wanna, I wanna have a deep bench, because if I gotta tap someone on the shoulder and have the next-man-up philosophy, I wanna, I wanna- Yeah...
• 3:15
  show them what it's like. So now all these, um, guys and girls that used to sell cars for me are running dealerships, and it makes me so proud because- Wow... I was able to pour into so many people in those 23 years.
• 3:28
  And I, and you know, the, auto is a small world anyway, right? So you never burn bridges and you try to bring everyone around you better and up.
• 3:35
  So, um, uh, that's why I love y'all's tagline so much 'cause it, it is about the people, for sure. Yeah, I mean, we gotta pass that credit over to Liza Borschis, because she's the one that, that came up with it.
• 3:46
  I was just like, "We're gonna put that on a T-shirt," and she was like, "Fine." Put that on a T-shirt. [laughs] And then we just carried it forward. So- Yeah, she's awesome...
• 3:53
  but when you got in, you said, like, everyone was, had this very, this mentality of very, like, protectionism.
• 3:57
  Who was it in your career that, like, kind of saw your motivation and your talent and kind of gave you the hand up, said, "Let me show you, let me show you the path"?
• 4:07
  Yeah, it was kind of interesting 'cause when I finally got into finance and I was doing a really good job in finance, if you're really good at it, you can get stuck there, right? [laughs] And I had bigger- Right.
• 4:16
  Absolutely... aspirations. You know, I had bigger aspirations and things I wanted to do. And I had a, a new car sales director at the time, and she's like, "Hey, you know, I, I want you on the sales desk.
• 4:27
  I want you to desk deals. I want you to do all that, but I gotta find someone to replace you with that can do the same thing you've been doing, that's been so, you know..." Did I lose you guys? Oh, almost. You're there.
• 4:40
  I lost you for a second. You're there. Did I lose you or no? Okay. No, we're good. You're good. So, um, so she gave me, she gave me my first chance.
• 4:47
  She's like, "Hey, if you can find me someone that can do what you've been doing, I'll give you your first opportunity on the new car desk." And so she did it. Hmm.
• 4:55
  And when I got up there, that's where I started seeing the, there's so many people that don't wanna teach you anything. And I was like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna flip the script. I'm gonna be an open book.
• 5:05
  I'm gonna teach you everything I can," 'cause I want my job to be easier 'cause I, I'm not gonna get to where... We're not gonna grow this place to where it needs to be if I'm the one trying to control everything. Yep.
• 5:15
  That's, I mean- That's, that's such a... It, it's so interesting because I think, and I don't think this is just auto,
• 5:23
  y- there's this desire to exercise a level of control in leadership because then there's ownership, then there's, like, the ability to know what's going on, the ability to execute based on your specific desires, and what that actually...
• 5:36
  Like, there's a good nature to that, but what it actually does is actually not enable the rest of your team to be great at what they do. We talk about this all the time, actually, just the access to information in auto.
• 5:49
  Just that, that alone, let alone, like, talking about the profit margins or how you read a statement and training someone under you or anything like that, but just the access to information about what's going on in the industry, what's happening right now so that you can be better prepared for your job.
• 6:03
  It's so hard to get that pressed down-... into organizations. Why do you think that is? Hmm. Great question. Like, what's the...
• 6:10
  Why d- why do people that are in leadership, in management, specif- we'll go specifically auto, even though I think it's, like, a universal truth. Why do you think that kind of, like, is the barrier?
• 6:21
  I, I think it's 'cause a, a little bit of the all you know is all you know. Yeah.
• 6:26
  And if you came up that way, then, and y- and you saw someone that you thought was successful running a dealership, and you saw the way they did it, you're like, "Oh, well, that's what success looks like.
• 6:35
  I've gotta do it that same way." And you have to, you know, kind of pioneer your own path because that's not...
• 6:42
  It could, they could even be even more successful if they empowered their people and did these kind of things.
• 6:47
  So I think there's a lot of, you know, "We've always done it that way," and I think that's part of the epidemic in automotive to a certain degree is you gotta continue to evolve or you're gonna die.
• 6:58
  If you're not growing, you're dying, right? So, um, you see a little bit of that today. How does that, how does that mentality, like, kind of translate into, like, this point in your career?
• 7:08
  Obviously, you look back through your LinkedIn profile and you'll see general sales manager, general sales manager, right, director of sales, right? In store, store, store, store.
• 7:15
  You flipped over to the industry partner side. Tell us about why you made that move and, like, how you see things now from being on the other side of the table. Yeah.
• 7:25
  So I, I was at, I was at one of those moments where I was like, hey, do I wanna keep chasing my dream of owning a dealership, or do I want to grow ever- more, even a, a whole new base of people?
• 7:38
  And I made the conscious decision to go over to the, to the vendor software side and be an individual contributor just 'cause I wanted to see, one, if I could do it, right? Yeah. [laughs] I, I thought I could.
• 7:49
  Like a challenge. Yeah. But, you know, could I do it? And at the time that when, when I, when I went to work for the company, they had never hired someone that didn't have software sales experience, right?
• 7:58
  And I'm like, yeah, but the person we're selling to, the persona we sell to, is the guy I was for 20 years. If anyone understands that persona and what they need and what they desire, it's me, so give me a chance.
• 8:11
  And so, you know, that's, that's what, that's what I got into.
• 8:14
  And I, I wanted to run a team again because when you've ran stores with, you know, 150 to 180 employees and then you're one guy in a car, you, you're not using all your skillsets, right? Right.
• 8:24
  So I quickly became a director and was running the West Coast team of seven people, and then now I'm the VP of sales and I've got 42 people that, you know, roll up to me or whatever, and I'm... That's what I love.
• 8:37
  I love running teams. I love guiding and leading teams and, and, and really inspiring the next level. Like, we, we promote a lot of people from within. Mm-hmm.
• 8:47
  And I promoted, um, six people this year into new, higher roles, which created some gaps and some vacancies, but it was the right thing to do for the person. Wow.
• 8:57
  And so we said, "Hey, it's going to give us some pain in the short term, but long term I know I've got the right people doing what they need to do." Do you have... Do you get, do you get to go into stores much anymore?
• 9:10
  I go into stores a lot. Not as much as I did initially when I was out, you know, selling the product and those kind of things. Um, now I am in more of, like, group meetings, um, and those kind of things.
• 9:21
  But if, if the, if the people wanna meet with me, then I'm definitely gonna be there. I still travel a ton.
• 9:26
  And, you know, the one thing that's been surprising to me in this role is, you know, I was at a Toyota store for a long time, as you guys saw on my LinkedIn, and so I used to look at stores that were ahead of me on the leaderboard and I'd be like, "Man, those guys are really sharp.
• 9:39
  They're probably..." Like, I'd love to see that store because they're- What are they doing? Yeah. Yeah. What are they doing that I, I'm not doing?
• 9:45
  And then I, in this, in this role, I've been into some of those stores and I'm like, "They're doing the same stuff I was doing." Like, they're not doing anything unique. Well, what's the differentiator, then?
• 9:54
  I think the differentiator is market, right? Um, there's definitely some metros and stuff that are obviously easier than others or whatever. Mm-hmm.
• 10:02
  And then there's people that once you build this brand and this, n- you know, the, everyone around you knows what you are and how you're doing it and everything else, 'cause, you know, you, you can't,
• 10:14
  you can't outspend negative words, right? But you can definitely, once you've built such a reputation or brand, you can crush it.
• 10:22
  And, uh, so I'd get out there and I'd be like, "They have just as many little lacks in their processes that I had. They just have done a better job at this, this, or this," right?
• 10:31
  So, um, that was very eye-opening for me because, um, I, I used to put some of those people on pedestals and go, "Man, one day I wanna be like that." Right. What's the magic wand- And now you're out there and like-...
• 10:41
  back there? Right. Yeah. Like, it's the same thing. They're just, you know, maybe they've been doing it longer, maybe they've got a better team, like, whatever. Um, but it was eye-opening for sure. What do you th-...
• 10:52
  It is, it's interesting, like, especially as I've... 'Cause I, you know, over the last couple years have been on the industry partner, media side, and you look around and, like,
• 11:02
  industry problems are s- sim- are fairly universal, right? E- everybody deals with them in slightly different ways.
• 11:10
  But I've got relationships with people at public groups that are literally dealing with the same exact problem as single rooftops right now, right? And that's... Like, I would've never thought that.
• 11:23
  I was like, "Oh, they probably have that knocked out at the big group. They, they, they blew past that a long time ago, figured it out." But it's really not the case, and you get to see that firsthand.
• 11:33
  Because, like, a technology, like Automotive Mastermind, is really something that, um, is, is so localized. It's, like, it's meant for a dealer or a small d- y- you know, like, to really own their customer database.
• 11:48
  And so, like, it's always all the same problem that we're dealing with doing that. What are, what are some of the key problems that you're finding right now that dealers are having to deal with- Mm...
• 12:00
  because of the way that your, your technology approaches the, the store or the customer? Yeah. I, I think there's this big desire right now to connect as many... communication paths as you can, right? Mm-hmm.
• 12:13
  'Cause every consumer in Americas would say, "Hey, if they could communicate more effectively with me, I'd be happy about it," right? But- Right...
• 12:21
  not knowing what the left and right hand are doing is not what they're looking for.
• 12:25
  And so as you connect more and more platforms together in different ways so everyone's talking and everyone's integrating, like, that's the win right now. And, and it's exciting to see automotive headed that direction.
• 12:40
  Um, and you, you think of, like, first party data being so important, but the hygiene of that data is just as important. And then, hey, if they do this over here, I need to maybe do something different over there, right?
• 12:53
  And connecting all of that is something we haven't had for a long time 'cause things don't talk. Mm-hmm.
• 12:58
  And next thing you know, as things start talking, um, it's gonna be a better experience for the consumer, but it's also gonna be really good for the dealer because their customers are gonna be more satisfied.
• 13:08
  It's a better experience, and it makes sense. I think when digital retailing first started, there was a lot of dealerships that would...
• 13:16
  A customer would start the journey online, start the transaction process, if you will, and they'd go into the store and the dealership would make them go back to step one. Yeah. Right? Right. I've heard that.
• 13:25
  Which always used to drive me, [laughs] drive me crazy, right? When DR started? You mean, like, yesterday? [laughs] I knew it was coming. [laughs] Uh-huh. So, so I, I think- Huh... I think that's the thing.
• 13:37
  Like, it, like, as an example, even a mastermind, like, some of the conversations we're having is, you know, once a lead comes in, a form lead, if you will, sh- should our marketing stop, right?
• 13:48
  Like, is it something where we've been proactive and we got the customer into a conversation, but now we're looking at all the different a- data sets that we have.
• 13:57
  If, if Kyle sends in a lead now and now the internet department's talking to him, our external marketing that's helped, helped him get to that point should probably turn off, right?
• 14:07
  Unless something stalls or drags out or whatever. And when, when we fi- figure that out in automotive, then that's where it's gonna be a whole new thing, right? Because first party data is really important.
• 14:19
  Third party data, as we know, is, you know, going further and further away. And, you know, I, I think about the other day I was reading an article about people not answering their phone anymore, right?
• 14:30
  And when I was in the dealerships, I was like- Remember the last time I answered my phone. Good night [laughs] I was hammering the phones, right, for customers.
• 14:37
  And, uh, you know, if you can connect all of that and get a better customer experience, like, that's all just, like, where it needs to be, so. So what do you think is the biggest misconception that dealers tend to have?
• 14:51
  Like, as you're in and out of stores, as you're on calls, you're interacting with your sales team. What, what do a lot of people have wrong about this new approach? You know- Like, what's the top one?
• 15:04
  I, I think the top one is they feel, and this may sound a little weird I guess, but they feel like everyone wants their data to be very private.
• 15:12
  But I think what consumers really want is if you're gonna use the data the right way to make a better experience- Oh, you... Wait, let me clarify that for a second. Oh, go ahead. You're saying you feel like dealers,
• 15:21
  their perception is that the customers are very concerned about their data being private. Is that what you're saying? I'm saying that, that dealerships, um,
• 15:31
  don't maybe connect all the time that customers are just looking for a better experience. And, you know, the old phone call of, "Hey, Kyle, I wanna buy your car. Oh, by the way, what is it?" Like- [laughs]...
• 15:43
  like, those kind of things are just bad things. And I, I don't know about you guys, but if, if, if someone served me up an ad that was appropriate and made sense, I'm all in.
• 15:53
  Like, I was just thinking, hey, I don't like my TV downstairs. If someone would serve me up a really good deal right now in an ad, I'm thinking about buying a TV, it probably would make a lot of sense.
• 16:02
  Do you think that's 'cause you're in sales and marketing? I don't know. I'm just throwing devil's advocate kicks. I don't, I don't think so. I'm kind of- Actually, I'm the same way. I've just never asked this question.
• 16:10
  I'm the same way. I'm like, cross-app track me, know my da- you already have it all anyway. Yeah. Like, just have it. Just make sure that when you talk to me, it's the right thing, right?
• 16:22
  But, like, we're not getting that s- uh, we're seemingly not getting that from mass media, so I wonder if anyone's actually done any studies on, like, hey, what do actual customers really want?
• 16:31
  Who actually feels that way? Who, who feels wh- which way? I don't know. It's the same thing of- I'm just throwing it out there...
• 16:37
  it's the same thing of people email me all the time on LinkedIn trying to say, "Hey, Steve, you're the VP of sales at Mastermind. We'd like to help you do this, this, or this. How would you like for me to follow up?"
• 16:47
  And I, I may say, "Hey, email's best," and they'll call me. And I'm like, "You just asked me how to follow up, email, phone call, or LinkedIn message. I said an email would be great, and then you call me."
• 16:58
  Like, what are we doing there? [laughs] Yep. Man, it's like for years in auto, we were like, "Ah, thank goodness, we can finally talk to people." And then it was like, talk to them more. Wait, talk to them more.
• 17:16
  No, you, you gotta talk to them more. Add more. Call them more. Talk to them more. Send them birthday emails. Send them all this type of stuff.
• 17:22
  And it's like in, uh, the OEM's talking to them, and the dealer's talking to them, and then the marketing thing is talking to them, and then something else, the lead comes in and they're talking to them, and there's this...
• 17:34
  We've now gotta kinda, like, peel back the onion to say, all right, what is the communication that we actually have to have right now, and what's the one thing that we can communicate with them?
• 17:45
  But that's a, it's a big ask because there's a lot of peels on the onion right now- Oh, yeah... I feel like. Well, I think- You know?... I think that's the key, though, right?
• 17:53
  When he was talking about what's the biggest misconception of dealers, it's like they, they want a phone call when they should get a phone call and not when they shouldn't, right? Right.
• 18:02
  When are we talking to them and why are we talking to them right now? Yeah, like the why, like the why and how.
• 18:07
  Like, why should we talk to them, when should we talk to them, and how should we talk to them is the most prevalent right now than it's ever been, but we haven't figured it out, right?
• 18:15
  So as we get better at that, then I think that's where the key is, but I think the misconception isI mean, a lot of it is just what you have, right?
• 18:22
  If you go into your CRM and this is your work plan, and you're calling your calls, and there's not a whole lot of outside data power in that, you're just going through your list.
• 18:31
  But that doesn't mean you should call them, and it doesn't mean that it's a good use of your time or the consumer's time, right? So, um, that's kind of the, the when, the why, and the how are very important. So what's...
• 18:45
  Like, what's a thing right now that dealers are going, "Okay, no one's figured it out. No one... It's not working as there's still some con- disconnected data"?
• 18:53
  What can a dealer deal- go in right now into their organization, into their operations, and pick one thing out to just, like, start to peel back the onion? How do they... How do you start?
• 19:04
  I think the way you gotta start more than anything is you can't just rely on DMS and CRM data, 'cause it's very static. It's like a Polaroid. Like, DMS data is whatever you did last time you were there.
• 19:17
  You may have moved since then. You may not even own the car anymore. Like, that static data is... You need more... You need data that is constantly being hygiened and cleaned and...
• 19:29
  Whether, whether that's using a CDP or a data lake or whatever you're doing, like, that's the biggest thing.
• 19:35
  Like, I don't know how many people I would call a day back when I was on the retail side that no longer owned the car. I didn't know they no longer owned the car- Mm-hmm... 'cause I didn't have any use of that.
• 19:42
  I didn't see the data, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I probably could have called someone that did own the car that I needed to talk to, but I was spinning my wheels over here.
• 19:51
  So I think that's, that's the piece of it, for sure. Like- Well- And, and the way, the way that works is just making sure that whoever you're using integrates with everyone else, right?
• 20:03
  'Cause if you have- I think that's... Yeah... that's the key. Like, everybody playing nice together. That, that's becoming more and more prevalent when it doesn't happen. And- Absolutely...
• 20:10
  and thankfully, it seems like there's less and less tolerance for it.
• 20:15
  Because as soon as we start to get more and more solutions that do like to play well with others, the tolerance for the people that don't is going to force the issue, and people need to play well together, which is, you know, collaboration.
• 20:27
  It's kinda in the DNA. Yeah, I think, I think of, like, form leads, right? If you, you know, if you send in a form lead and then you get 80 phone calls, next time you're not putting a good phone number in, right?
• 20:38
  So we're- Abs never. Right. Yeah. We're, we're cr- we're creating our own junk. Yeah. Our own, like, bad data. Well, 'cause always kicking the can down, right? [laughs] Not thinking of it that way. Yeah.
• 20:47
  Well, listen, this has been an awesome conversation, Steve.
• 20:50
  Uh, I love it when we have somebody that takes it from, like, coming up through the ranks in the stores to the industry partner side because the level of understanding and empathy, uh, just goes through the roof.
• 21:01
  So, uh, thanks for joining us today on the show. It's been really great talking with you. [upbeat music] Yeah. Thank you guys for inviting me. Um, super, super fun, and it's always great to talk to you guys.
• 21:15
  You know, there's a common theme when we talk to people that are paying attention to the broader industry and the broader dynamics of what it takes to run a business, run a dealership, serve customers, is that empowering employees tends to be a common theme.
• 21:30
  Yeah. Like, that's- Surprise, surprise... the way to grow in, in whatever industry. Whatever part of our industry is grow by empowering others.
• 21:39
  Like, bring others along and, and he, him doing that when he was in the dealership but also in his current role, you know, the... It's... That's, that's what I love.
• 21:50
  A lot of times d- people will be like, "Ah, dealers, ah, vendors," either side of the road. But there's so much of the same dynamics in, in each side of the industry. Jordan, it's your turn to say something.
• 22:02
  Michael Cirillo just usually butts in four times by now. It just happens. He's just being so polite. [laughs] Politeness, right?
• 22:10
  [laughs] No, one of the things that Steve mentioned was that when he was in a role like in finance was he couldn't get promoted because he was so good at his job.
• 22:18
  So there's two parts in that dynamic is you either get promoted to a job you're not good at, or you get stuck in a job that you're really good at. So again, there's a couple sides of that. But
• 22:28
  his, his view and his focus on really empowering the rest of his team and helping other people get to the same level as him so that he could have store-wide success is really something I took away from that. Um, I, I...
• 22:39
  I don't know, I just love the people side of it and the team dynamic. Always. Yeah. It, it... Yeah. And, and, and I have to... If, if...
• 22:44
  I would be remiss if right now in, in the what our industry is talking about, if I didn't recap the fact that so many people are talking about what leveraging data does to serve customers better.
• 22:58
  And how do we take all of this rich data that we have just, just in silos and bring it to a place where customers can feel more cared for and employees can feel more equipped to take, to, to do that care? That's...
• 23:12
  I think if, if collaboration, the thing that we were talking about at the beginning of the show, means anything in the next 12 months and, and we're heading quickly to NADA- Mm-hmm...
• 23:23
  if there's anything that comes out of this, I, I hope that it's, you know... Yes, we're gonna introduce AI and CDPs, and, and we're gonna get better attribution and all that, right?
• 23:33
  But if collaboration means bringing together disconnected data in order to empower employees to better care for customers, the industry will win.
• 23:41
  It's funny how the two things we're talking about, like, you think when you develop your team and you bring the people together, that those people are much more likely to play well with others and bring the data together.
• 23:53
  Those things are not disconnected. Uh, they're actually- Absolutely... very connected. So on, uh, we hope you enjoyed your time with us. This interview was so much fun for us. We can't wait to connect, uh, next time.
• 24:03
  Probably at NADA is when we're gonna get to hang out with Steve a little bit. So on behalf of Kyle Mountserre, Jordan Cox, our fill-in for the one and only Michael Cirillo, I'm Paul Jay Daly.
• 24:13
  We'll see you next time on Auto Collabs. [upbeat music] Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com.
• 24:25
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• 24:37
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Are we recording yet? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.