Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Embracing Digital Strategies with Jason Henneberry

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Embracing Digital Strategies with Jason Henneberry · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Hey, what's up, Jeff Zimper host of Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast.
0:14
I want to thank you, you, we're tuning in today.
0:18
We've got a really cool interview lined up for you.
0:21
Before we get to that, I wanted to bring to you the latest success from the streets from
0:26
one of our relatively newer members of the Myogen Classes platform, and that is Mr. Jordan
0:33
Sanchez.
0:34
Jordan, what is up?
0:35
How you doing, man?
0:36
I wanted to give Jordan a shout out because he hasn't been a member for that long in our
0:40
platform of Myogen Classes where we help you move from solicitor and vendor to partner
0:44
in peer.
0:45
We help you attract and engage agents instead of chase and pursue.
0:51
We help you increase trust, scale your conversations, and grow your referrals on demand, leading
0:59
with an educational platform, plug and play where you simply log into our platform, grab
1:04
the topic that you want to teach, follow our proven process to promote and get butts
1:08
in the seats, follow our post-class process to convert those attendees to conversations
1:14
and referrals.
1:15
Hey, if you want to learn more, you can go to MortgageMarketing.pro, Jason's quick
1:20
success story.
1:21
He's out of the Texas area and Austin to be specific, and Jason and I were just actually
1:28
messaging about 30 minutes ago on Facebook Messenger.
1:33
What he said to me was that he has an upcoming class, one of our most popular classes, teaching
1:38
chat GPT for real estate, and this is us actually revealing some advanced strategies and tactics
1:45
for leveraging chat GPT, not just to save time and efficiency, but to actually use it
1:52
in the way that people are really getting significant results with chat GPT, not just
1:59
the, oh, write something for me, give me a listing description, but something much more
2:03
advanced, and that's what we help agents walk through during our class.
2:06
So Jordan has his upcoming class this week, as a matter of fact, two days from the time
2:10
I'm recording this, and right now he is sitting at 30 reservations, 30 agents who have raised
2:17
their hand, said, yes, I would like to come learn more about chat GPT.
2:21
Now, by the way, before you get all hung up on well, I'm not the expert.
2:24
I haven't used chat GPT much, listen, I've been there, a lot of our members have been there,
2:29
Jordan has been there, and first of all, why aren't you using chat GPT?
2:34
But secondly, right, you don't have to be the expert.
2:38
You can simply think of yourself as the nightly news reporter who's reporting the news,
2:41
reading the cue cards, that's the plug and play presentation template that we give you
2:46
with the trainer video and everything so that we equip you to be able to facilitate and
2:51
be the messenger and provide information.
2:54
That's how this whole program works, and it works like gangbusters.
2:56
So once again, shout out to you Jordan for getting 30 reservations for his upcoming class.
3:00
And again, when you ever hear this kind of story, my question is to you, right?
3:04
How are you generating agent conversations and engagement?
3:07
How are you building your platform of awareness in your local market?
3:11
There's lots of different ways to do it, but I am fully convinced now having been in this
3:15
industry since 2003, doing it myself and helping hundreds of originators across the country
3:20
do the same thing.
3:21
There is no better way for you to quickly and easily get in front of real estate agents.
3:27
Scale your conversations, grow your referrals by leading with educational value that makes
3:32
a difference in their business.
3:34
So you want to learn more, want to ask me some questions, want to see what the list of
3:38
classes is, want to get a look inside the platform, or get marketing.pro, book the call
3:43
right now.
3:44
Okay, this week, my special guest coming to you from the North up in Canada, from British
3:52
Columbia to be specific, my special guest is Jason Hanna Berry.
3:55
Jason is an innovator, a disruptor, and he's a generally an enthusiast for finding a
4:01
better way to do things.
4:03
He is the co-founder and director of technology and strategic initiatives with Tango Financial.
4:09
Tango is Western Canada's largest mortgage brokerage supporting 450 plus mortgage agents.
4:17
We call them mortgage brokers in the US.
4:19
They call them mortgage agents up there in Canada, and he does that supporting over 35 brands
4:24
with annual originations exceeding $4.2 billion.
4:29
So I think you're going to find this conversation interesting in looking at some of the similarities
4:34
and then some of the differences.
4:36
When it comes to the mortgage industry in Canada, some of the activities, the initiatives
4:41
that we're all trying to do are the same, obviously the financial markets, how interest rates
4:45
are set, and the different types of mortgage programs that are available are different.
4:50
And guess what?
4:52
When you hear this, you may start to see what you do in a different light, in a different
4:58
context, because sometimes we just see we can't see the force through the trees because
5:03
we're so close up close to our own business, our own industry, and maybe by listening
5:08
to this, you will discover that the US might have some advantages when it comes to being
5:14
a mortgage originator and the opportunities for you to grow and make money and have different
5:18
products and solutions to provide people.
5:20
So I think you're going to get a lot of good stuff out of that from that portion of our
5:23
conversation.
5:24
We're going to break down some of the strategic tactics that Jason himself and his various
5:30
mortgage brokers, mortgage agents use very similarly in Canada to build trust, to create
5:37
educational, social media content, to get engagement and conversations with real estate agents.
5:42
And you're going to hear some cool parallels.
5:44
So my advice to you would be listen with an open mind and start to look at this through the
5:49
frame of like, hey, what ideas could you borrow and use in your own business and apply those
5:55
for yourself?
5:56
And so I think you're going to enjoy this episode as much as I did.
5:59
So without further ado, let's get into this week's show Jason.
6:03
Welcome to the show.
6:04
Jeff, thanks for having me, man.
6:06
It is a pleasure to connect with you and I have to say I think this is the first podcast
6:12
I've had with a Canadian mortgage professional.
6:15
So congratulations.
6:16
Well, I am honored.
6:17
Thank you for having me.
6:18
This is my first podcast and I'm attending with an American podcasters.
6:22
All right.
6:23
This is our first, mutual first.
6:25
That's right.
6:26
So we're doing our own piece of cord here.
6:28
You know what I mean?
6:29
And that's good.
6:30
That's good.
6:31
Building bridges.
6:32
Not walls.
6:33
All right.
6:34
So usually I start off with people want to get a sense of, you know, who Jason is, how
6:37
long in the biz.
6:38
Maybe what do you want to share around production or whatever, but go ahead and give us that
6:41
buy off.
6:42
You don't mind?
6:43
Yeah, for sure.
6:44
I grew up as a mortgage broker loan officer.
6:47
We don't use the term loan officer in Canada, but, you know, producing mortgage agent started
6:52
off 20 some odd years ago, found that I, you know, just like anybody else got really busy
6:58
in my own practice and didn't have time for family.
7:00
So I started building teams and infrastructure and all that kind of stuff.
7:03
And one thing led to another, we eventually, you know, grew our brokerage.
7:08
It's called tango.
7:10
So the company that we have today and I'm not alone in the company have a partner, but
7:15
we have 400 mortgage agents or mortgage brokers inside our company.
7:20
And what we do there is we provide, you know, marketing infrastructure, payroll compliance
7:24
infrastructure, that kind of thing.
7:25
We allow people to kind of get out and build their own brand.
7:28
So we have almost 50 mortgage agent teams or sub brokerages under our umbrella.
7:35
And we just provide all the back office infrastructure for that group.
7:38
So that's been, that's been really good for us.
7:40
And through that, we, we've developed a bunch of marketing and, you know, other services
7:45
and platform stuff to support their businesses.
7:49
Are you actively originating today?
7:51
Myself, no, but I still have a book of business, but I have, you know, an underwriting team
7:55
that supports all that.
7:56
So I don't, I don't have a lot of direct client interactions.
7:59
I spend most of my time thinking about how to support our agents.
8:01
Yeah.
8:02
And help them grow their business.
8:03
Right?
8:04
Yeah.
8:05
You got it, man.
8:06
Cool.
8:08
All right.
8:09
So this is, and sometimes when in these conversations, this is more of like a curiosity
8:13
thing for me.
8:15
If you could articulate for me the difference in, if you can, right?
8:21
So, so I hate to put you on a spot if I am, but like, how the rates are set differently
8:25
in the US versus Canada, can you say that is a really good question.
8:29
I don't have a lot of insight into how rates are set in the United States.
8:34
Yeah.
8:35
Whoever's setting them up here is crazy.
8:37
I don't know if you're feeling that way right now.
8:40
Right.
8:41
Yes.
8:42
Yes.
8:43
Well, I mean, they were 8% here and they've recently kind of come down a little bit.
8:44
But controlled by like the big bank up there or whatever.
8:47
Yeah.
8:48
We have with the bank of Canada who sets, you know, monetary policy and the overnight
8:52
lending rate.
8:53
And right now we're at a place where it's flat lining.
8:57
So there's an indication that we may have hit the top of the curve.
9:01
But, you know, that we're, we have to wait a couple more quarters to know for sure if
9:06
we're at the end of quarters.
9:07
Really?
9:08
Yeah.
9:09
They meet every six weeks.
9:10
And so this just last week or so they met and they agreed not to raise rates again.
9:15
Yes.
9:16
So that is the first time in a while that they haven't raised rates.
9:19
And so we'll see if they do that again in six weeks and then six weeks after that.
9:22
Then we'll know.
9:23
Do you have 30 or fixed loans?
9:25
We don't.
9:26
The longest term on a contract is 10 years.
9:30
Generally people take five year fixed or variable rates.
9:34
And there's some crazy stat like most mortgages in Canada will get rewritten or refinanced
9:39
or broken at the three year mark, even if someone's in a longer term.
9:43
So we, yeah, Canadian homeowners and investors, they shoulder the interest rate risk, which
9:49
is fundamentally different than you guys.
9:52
I think it takes a lot longer in the states for the impact of rising rates to take effect.
9:57
But here we're feeling it real time.
9:59
So on that 10 year, what is the average rate on that right now?
10:03
It's high.
10:04
It's high.
10:05
I don't know that anybody would be taking that right now.
10:08
Yeah, you're pushing that that 8% range in variable.
10:12
You're in the sevens and then on a five year fixed, you're in that that 6% range.
10:18
Six six and a half.
10:20
Interesting.
10:21
Okay.
10:22
Well, that's also interesting from a standpoint of refinances, where you have this guaranteed
10:27
re-five market every three to five years, right?
10:30
So we have, except for the fact that over the last few years, the regulation has tightened
10:38
up a little bit.
10:39
And so it's harder to move people from institution to institution.
10:46
And so we're capturing on the whole, we're capturing a smaller percentage of the re-five
10:50
market.
10:51
But there is a stat in Canada.
10:52
So 20, 25, 57% of all mortgages in Canada are up for renewal in 2025 and into 20, 26.
11:02
And so if you take that and you couple that with the fact that people just have natural
11:05
breakage of their mortgage, and then maybe if rates drop a point between now and then
11:10
and the transit that are like the purchase transaction market comes back, I think we're
11:14
going to see the busiest, like we're going to be way busier than, you know, a couple
11:20
of years ago in 2025 and 2026, I think there's going to be, I can convergence of all those
11:24
events.
11:25
Wow.
11:26
Yeah.
11:27
Okay.
11:28
So thank you for playing along.
11:29
I've got a couple more questions on just setting the stage for those who aren't familiar
11:32
with Canada.
11:33
That's okay.
11:34
100%.
11:35
Yeah.
11:36
Tell me about then the difference is compensation wise, right?
11:39
Commission structure, bonus versus salary, things like that.
11:41
What can you share with us around that?
11:43
So I think from my knowledge, we make a little bit less money than Americans do, American
11:49
loan officers on the transaction.
11:51
So our average compensation on a five year fixed term is going to be somewhere around
11:55
125 basis points, you know, so 10, 12,000 bucks per million funded.
12:00
I think the same ballpark is in the same ballpark.
12:03
Okay.
12:04
It's very structure or composition varies a little bit based on company.
12:07
But for like what we call a retail loan officer, like a bank versus a broker, which is an
12:12
independent.
12:13
It's going to be a little bit higher, perhaps on the broker side.
12:15
But yeah, that's, that's, you know, in terms of large retail lenders, that's in the ballpark.
12:21
Yeah.
12:22
Yeah.
12:23
Okay.
12:24
Cool.
12:25
Okay.
12:26
So they are compensated or rewarded for performance.
12:28
100%.
12:29
Yeah.
12:30
So we have the same thing.
12:31
We have that retail versus wholesale.
12:32
So we have what we call sort of our mortgage sales force, which is our bank branded internal
12:37
sales forces, which is actually how I started in the business back in 2003.
12:42
But then I became an independent broker a couple of years after that.
12:45
Yeah.
12:46
So we just call people who are not part of like independent commission mortgage brokers.
12:51
So that's, that's the difference there.
12:54
So in the, in the retail bank, we're probably making those, those reps are probably making
12:57
50 to 65 basis points.
13:01
And independently, you're in that one one 25 range.
13:04
Right.
13:05
Okay.
13:06
Do you have a sense of the total, I know Canada's obviously very big like the US and,
13:10
you know, there's different population concentrations between West Coast East Coast,
13:14
but you're up in the Vancouver area if I'm correct, right?
13:18
That's right.
13:19
Yeah.
13:20
I'm on Vancouver Island, which is, you know, we're about 30 miles west.
13:22
Yeah.
13:23
Exactly.
13:24
Yeah.
13:25
The killer whales as you take the ferry ride.
13:26
Hi, everybody rides a killer whale to go across the water here.
13:29
For sure.
13:30
Yeah.
13:31
I've taken that ferry over by the way.
13:32
I forget the name of it right now, but yeah, it's from, from, from, from Anacortis up.
13:38
Yeah.
13:39
That's cool.
13:40
Well, that would be the, the coho ferry if you, if you came up from the States,
13:44
yeah, drive my car on there and then, you know, they took me over all that stuff.
13:48
Really a beautiful area.
13:49
Um, so do you have a sense of roughly population of, um, mortgage originators, brokers,
13:56
right?
13:57
Um, yeah.
13:58
Yeah.
13:59
Yeah.
14:00
Our total, uh, like industry participants is somewhere around 15,000 mortgages across
14:06
the entire country.
14:07
Yeah.
14:08
Maybe you're pushing 20,000, maybe a bit more when you include, uh, the, the, the whole,
14:13
the story of the retail, yeah, officers as well.
14:16
So yeah, it's, uh, significantly small.
14:18
Like how many do you have in the States?
14:20
That's great question.
14:21
And, and that I guess depends on what you consider, right?
14:24
Because we have our call centers with like, quick in and things like that, um, but the
14:29
figures that I've seen, if you lump everybody in, um, I'll be, people are going to hear
14:35
this and go, that's not right, Jeff, but, uh, probably a couple hundred thousand.
14:40
Yeah.
14:41
Which makes sense.
14:42
I mean, we have what 10% the population, yeah, the US.
14:45
So we're probably tracking that happen too.
14:47
I was anybody like, I'm out this, this market sucks.
14:49
Oh, yeah.
14:50
A lot.
14:51
Um, we were, I just pulled some reports.
14:53
So we have a little bit of data because we have, you know, quite a number of agents and
14:56
we were pulling some year over your reports and we actually, uh, did it, this is just
15:00
like three days ago.
15:01
And, uh, we did a double take because we, the number of agents that we've paid, uh,
15:05
you know, on deals last year at versus, we've grown by agent count because we're in a,
15:10
we're in an expansion mode right now for tango, uh, but then that didn't align with.
15:16
We were like, well, wait a second, but we've grown, but we've paid less people.
15:18
Right.
15:19
And so we were kind of like, what's wrong with the reporting, but we dug into it and we
15:23
realized that there's just, there's a lot of people that aren't that we're producing
15:26
last year that just are not producing this year.
15:29
Um, and so yeah, it's, there's definitely, uh, maybe people who have parked their license
15:34
or, uh, have exited the business.
15:37
There's a percentage.
15:38
I, I'd be hard pressed to tell you exactly what it's kind of so.
15:40
Yeah.
15:41
No, no, that's okay.
15:42
I mean, that's a natural cycle we've seen it before.
15:43
Right.
15:44
Come and go.
15:45
Um, okay.
15:46
So one last thing on that note, and this is just my, I thought I remember from somebody
15:49
a stat years ago that that large bank, um, in terms of percentage of market share they
15:55
have.
15:56
Isn't there a bank that has like a huge percentage of market share?
15:59
We've got four or five major banks here, and they've got a sizable percentage of market
16:02
share.
16:03
I think mortgage, independent mortgage brokers have, uh, roughly around, you know, I've,
16:10
you said it a second ago, people are going to hear this and tell me I'm out to lunch,
16:12
but it's like 35 to 40, okay, percent market share on the, on the mortgage, independent
16:18
mortgage broker channel.
16:19
Yeah.
16:20
So the banks as a whole have like 60 percent market share.
16:22
Right.
16:23
Right.
16:24
Yeah.
16:25
It's good kind of setting the stage and background for those who are curious how the
16:29
Canadian market works, a lot of similarities, obviously the glaring differences, the difference
16:34
of no 30 year fixed and kind of the shorter term breakages on those loans, but that's
16:39
cool.
16:40
Um, all right.
16:41
Now let's talk about this.
16:42
A question I usually ask people when they come on the show, if they're producing or
16:45
have been producing, but you're obviously overseeing, but let's just take this in terms
16:49
of, yeah, in the context, I guess, of the people, you know, the 400 LOs that you support
16:52
as well.
16:53
I say L, LOs, by the way, for sure, 100 percent, yeah, a lot easier for me to adapt
17:01
than all of you doing audience.
17:02
Yeah.
17:03
Uh, what do you see as the primary, what was it for you or what do you see currently
17:08
kind of like as the primary source of business for most people?
17:12
Yeah, that is, that's a really good question.
17:14
I'd say right now in this market, the primary source of business is going to be your, your
17:18
RIFI renewal, uh, restructuring that's happening because of rate changes and, you know, maybe,
17:24
uh, homeowners, investors getting caught on their heels a little bit with the rise and
17:27
cost of credit.
17:28
The purchase transaction market is down big time.
17:32
Sure.
17:33
So we've got some of the bigger markets like Toronto, Vancouver, I wouldn't say they're
17:36
stalling out, but they're, you know, the transactions are definitely slowing still activity
17:41
in some of the smaller markets, uh, you know, where the price point is more palatable.
17:46
I think it's, there's still a lot of transactions happening, uh, but the main markets have really
17:51
slowed significantly.
17:52
So the bulk of the business right now is, is coming from a sort of a restructuring, uh,
17:58
adjustment to rising rates.
17:59
I'd say is, you know, a lot of private, uh, financing, a lot of alternate financing, not
18:04
your main discounted rates, uh, that you would get through the, through the banks.
18:08
Uh, so a lot of creativity that's going into, you know, figuring out how to place deals
18:13
for people right now.
18:15
Um, what, uh, when you are originating and what do you see with your, you know, more
18:20
successful people, the, uh, primary activities they do to generate opportunities.
18:27
Uh, that's a really good question.
18:29
So I think, I think a lot, I think that the world is obviously changed, uh, in terms of
18:35
how people are, uh, developing business, I think in the last two years, we're seeing
18:39
a lot more, uh, brokers and agents move, move into the digital age, uh, a lot of, a
18:47
lot of people posting on socials and trying to figure out that environment more than ever
18:51
before.
18:52
I think, you know, uh, cold calling strategies, um, taking people out to coffee, lunch,
18:59
like, you know, people have shorter attention spans these days.
19:02
So I think the brokers that are really being successful right now are figuring out how
19:07
to, uh, break through the noise, uh, social media and also convert a lot of that attention
19:13
into conversation.
19:14
You and I were talking about this earlier, like it's the conversations that you have that
19:18
lead to the conversions.
19:19
So even, so we used to, like if you, the way I grew up in the mortgage industry or probably
19:24
you did as well as like, you know, you would, you would call call a bunch of realtors or
19:28
potential referral partners.
19:29
You would head down to the local networking events, board of trade, B&I meetings, whatever
19:33
it was, you would try to meet people face to face and you would, you'd create a conversation,
19:38
you'd have a connection and maybe you would agree to, like, meet for coffee or lunch or
19:42
something like that.
19:43
And you'd do that over the course of a few months and eventually that might lead to a
19:46
referral.
19:47
It was a bit of slow process, but it worked.
19:48
If you were moderately good at doing that, then you could build a business that way.
19:52
I think those days are behind us, like nobody picks up their phone anymore, um, and social
19:58
media is a new networking event.
19:59
And with now, so that's daunting for a lot of people, at least in my world, like we
20:03
have a platform, much like you do where we teach people how to, um, how to move their
20:08
marketing into the digital age, probably a lot of very similar strategies that you're,
20:12
you're helping people with.
20:14
But um, I think people, people see it and it's a very daunting environment.
20:18
And they think, oh, I got to, I got to go build a massive audience or I've got to have
20:21
all these followers and I think a lot of those metrics or vanity metrics were teaching
20:25
people how you can use these strategies to dominate your local market, find the exact
20:30
partners that you want to have conversations with.
20:32
And these platforms, it's so much easier than picking up the phone and doing a hundred
20:36
goal calls or had, you know, a drive and halfway across town to an event you didn't
20:40
want to go to anyway, you can do this in your pajamas now and you can have conversations
20:43
with people all day long and you can, and you can build connections.
20:47
And, uh, I think the brokers that are figuring that out are having a lot of fun right now.
20:51
I know it because a lot of them are in my world and we're, there's some people that are
20:56
absolutely crushing their marketing right now.
20:58
And then there's a lot of people that haven't quite figured that opportunity out yet.
21:02
That's who we're trying to help.
21:04
Yeah, exactly.
21:05
Yeah, no, I said earlier today on a previous conversation, you know, anybody quote unquote
21:10
over 40, right, is struggling, I think, and by the way, that's self admittedly for
21:14
me.
21:15
I was going to say that's, that's both of us here.
21:17
Yeah.
21:18
So, you know, it's just kind of like, where's my phone over here?
21:20
So I grabbed this mobile phone and like, you know, doing this and recording like, this
21:24
is a new skill, right, holding up the phone and hoarding your face, talking.
21:28
There's a growth process there that some get through at various stages, but I would say
21:35
to your point, this is what the hammer that I'm trying not only for myself, but that we
21:40
all need to get through it.
21:41
Like this is the new, as you said, networking.
21:44
Yeah.
21:45
Yeah, exactly.
21:46
It is, it is the new networking.
21:47
And it's, and if you do it, it's, it's, it's working really, really well.
21:50
And, uh, it's funny because you and I were chatting earlier, some of the strategies that
21:53
you're helping people with is same that we're helping people with.
21:56
We're not just showing, uh, the people in our, in our sphere, how to do it.
22:00
We're showing them how, how to do it and also how to teach other people how to do it.
22:05
Right.
22:06
So by extension, they become, you know, that marketing coach for their centers of influence
22:11
because everybody's struggling with this, uh, the realtor's financial planners.
22:15
Oh, yeah.
22:16
The same thing that we struggle with, you listening right now of what I just mentioned.
22:20
Yeah.
22:21
The agents are struggling.
22:22
Everybody else.
22:23
I'll piggyback on that point for a second is like, if we can be the conduit for helping
22:27
those people, um, uh, cross that chasm through content, education, whatever, then that's
22:34
going to endear them to us, build some trust, resistance goes down.
22:39
And therefore those conversations that lead to contracts, they happen a lot more quickly.
22:43
They happen.
22:44
Yeah.
22:45
You just nailed it.
22:46
You got to walk the talk.
22:47
So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's tough.
22:48
You got to pull out your phone.
22:49
You got to do the, um, you know, talking into the camera and you get the cool thing is
22:54
at first, maybe your content sucks, but nobody sees you anyway.
22:57
So it doesn't matter.
22:58
So you're just going to the gym.
22:59
You're doing the reps.
23:00
You're getting better at it.
23:01
And then by the time you're a little bit better at it, people start to see you, but you
23:04
do that and you attract people.
23:05
I've got this three step process that I talked about and I didn't create it, but it's like
23:09
attract, connect, convert, and that's, you know, so job number one is you got to attract
23:13
people in your world and you do that by posting all the time.
23:16
And then those people are going to, they're going to like or comment or they're going to
23:18
follow you.
23:19
And when the moment that happens, you try to build a connection with them.
23:23
And so what we're teaching people to do is, you know, someone comments on your posts,
23:27
someone, someone follows you back, you, you immediately move to chat and you say, Hey,
23:31
man, thanks.
23:32
Like Jeff, thanks for the follow.
23:33
Really appreciate it.
23:34
And then we try to move those conversations and they've got the connection part.
23:37
And then there's a whole bunch of different methodologies to move in those conversations
23:41
into actual conversions.
23:42
Yeah.
23:43
And what we call a conversion is just, just basically getting to that coffee meeting.
23:46
It's a Zoom meeting now, but try to, try to escalate that, that conversation into a,
23:52
let's have a, let's, let's meet and, uh, could be a Zoom, could be coffee, whatever,
23:56
and let's see where we can help each other.
23:58
And what's really cool is a lot of the partners out there, the realtors of financial planners
24:02
that you're connecting with, they have the same struggles.
24:05
And so it's really easy right now where at this window of time where you can just say,
24:09
Hey, how's business?
24:10
And, uh, you can have conversations around, Hey, I've got some stuff that I'm doing that's
24:14
working for me.
24:15
You want me to show you what I'm up to.
24:17
And almost 100% of the time, they're like, yeah, I'd love to see it.
24:19
I've been watching your content and I'd love to see how you're doing that because it's
24:23
a bit of a, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a bit opaque for a lot of people.
24:27
But the moment you start showing them, then all of a sudden, you can be that helpful person
24:30
for them, which I think way, what you were talking about a second ago.
24:33
Oh, 100%.
24:34
Um, yeah.
24:35
A lot of things there.
24:36
I have this pyramid.
24:37
If you can picture a pyramid and I love, and this is, this is the, you know, I'm kind
24:41
of processed.
24:42
Let's just take real estate agents.
24:43
For example, uh, the, the, you know, realtor partner process or the, or the loan office
24:48
are outreach process, right?
24:49
And on the bottom of that pyramid is solicitor, right, because they're co-calling and chasing
24:54
and all that.
24:55
And then the next level is, uh, vendor, right, and a vendor's based on products and pricing.
24:59
And most, most never get past vendor, uh, because they're leading all the time with products
25:04
and pricing.
25:05
And therefore, you know, you're, you're, you're like continuing to shove that frame on
25:09
everybody.
25:10
I'm like, I'm a great LL.
25:11
I got great rates.
25:12
It's just like, yeah.
25:13
So does everybody else?
25:14
So that's not unique.
25:15
So everybody, oh, no loyalty all this.
25:16
Well, you know, if you're just a vendor, I don't know about you, Jason, you probably don't
25:20
have a lot of loyalty to a vendor, right?
25:23
It's, uh, so what you just described there is, uh, I think the number one mistake that
25:27
people are making with their content right now is they're trying to, they're trying
25:32
to, uh, sell or differentiate themselves based on, uh, product features or why they,
25:38
why someone should choose them over the competition, which is like people don't buy, uh, we know
25:42
this.
25:43
This is nothing new, but people don't buy on logic.
25:45
They buy on emotion.
25:46
And so you want to, you want to target the pain points and you want to speak to, so if
25:50
you're trying to attract homeowners or real estate investors, what are the pain points?
25:54
Do they care about the difference between fixed or variable or a five year term or a
25:58
30 year term?
25:59
Probably not.
26:00
They, what they care about is, am I going to be able to make my mortgage payments?
26:02
Am I going to be able to stand my home?
26:04
So let's talk to them about those things.
26:06
And if you can show them how to not only keep their house, but make their mortgage payments.
26:12
And if you can also show them how to do that without affecting their lifestyle so that
26:16
they don't have to experience the pain of sacrifice right now, then, you know, now you
26:20
stand a chance of being able to break through the noise.
26:23
Now you have different conversations.
26:24
And so, uh, this, this isn't available in the States, but my coaching platform is called
26:28
strategy hub.
26:29
That's where we coach workers how to do some of these things.
26:32
And we're constantly the focus there is we're, we're, we're focused on mortgage strategies
26:36
or financial strategies, you know, cash flow strategies, tax strategies, wealth building
26:40
strategies, real estate acquisition strategies, none of it is product related.
26:44
It's all like, what do people want?
26:47
Where are they?
26:48
Where are they hurting?
26:49
And how do we solve those pain points and help them get where, where they want to be?
26:52
And that's, and it's that content that I think gets people's attention.
26:55
Yeah.
26:56
A very good point.
26:57
Um, let me, let me say these three things, then I want to come back to what you just said
27:01
there in terms of financial strategies, looking at a slide I have from a presentation I gave
27:05
a while back.
27:06
But, um, the title of it is there's three skills to thrive in any market.
27:10
Number one is audience building.
27:12
Number two is deal creation.
27:13
Number three is deal conversion, right?
27:15
No matter what's going on in the, if you master those three things, you know, yeah, there's
27:19
your track connect convert just expressed it differently.
27:22
Yeah.
27:23
And we're all reading the same stuff.
27:24
Exactly.
27:25
Well, you said something interesting about the content and, you know, the financial strategies
27:30
and education, I interviewed somebody yesterday and, um, he, uh, put the frame on the market
27:37
that we're in right now is a conversion market, meaning the conversations we have need to
27:43
be, and don't take this in a sales way of like, I got to close hard and all that.
27:48
But what you brought up is put it this way in the current market with this uncertainty
27:53
that there is, uh, you have your own economy and economic situation.
27:57
We have ours, um, and with this uncertainty with higher rates, what I always fall back
28:04
on is people seek context, right?
28:08
Context during the chaos so I can feel more confident about making the right decision
28:11
for me.
28:12
And so those conversations, a lot of sees here, those conversations you have need to be
28:16
focused on converting people on a variety of different things like to trust you, to
28:20
choose you to, you know, education to your point about the financial education.
28:24
That's what I'm seeing more and more people do today as financial advisors is be more
28:29
education driven.
28:31
Here's another one.
28:32
I'm full of, you know, these little platitudes here today.
28:35
But, um, here's one you can use, like, and this is real real estate and mortgage true.
28:39
Um, most real estate mortgage professionals know what's happening, um, some understand
28:46
few can explain.
28:47
Cool.
28:48
I like that.
28:49
Yeah, I swiped it.
28:50
I don't know from who but, you know, so, uh, still like an artist is the book.
28:54
Uh, so anyway, the point is it's like you better be darn good today at explaining what's
29:00
happening.
29:01
If you want that trust in conversion, yeah, yeah, the, the education's key.
29:06
And then what's really cool, uh, to take that a step further is you, if you're talking
29:10
about all these different things, you're going to attract people will come to see you as
29:13
that expert, that subject matter expert, but you might attract them, um, to, or get them
29:19
to engage with you for some reason.
29:21
But ultimately, they may end up working with you at some other level.
29:25
So you might be teaching them one concept.
29:28
And I think the other part of this whole, like, educate that people have to get comfortable
29:32
with or the loan officers in our world need to get comfortable with is sometimes they
29:35
feel like because I'm talking about it, I need to do that for that for the people.
29:39
Like, and so I think we just need to be talking about a whole bunch of different topics and
29:44
try to be as helpful as possible.
29:46
And then when people come into our world, really take a moment to sit down and listen to
29:50
them and be empathetic to their situation and then find the right solution.
29:54
And it doesn't necessarily have to be the thing that attracted you to them.
29:57
Um, but yeah, I, I don't know if that made sense or not, but that's, uh, no.
30:01
It does.
30:02
I think it's just about getting engagement, um, you know, like I'm sure you have stories.
30:05
I can think of stories too where, you know, people are watching you and they're following
30:09
you.
30:10
Um, and they have, and they may not know that you even know, like I have people that
30:13
I work with have told me stories, whether it's realtors or consumers, uh, where out
30:17
of the blue, they'll just connect DM and be like, Hey man, been watching your stuff really
30:21
like it.
30:22
Loved to love to meet, you know, or we've been watching your stuff in my husband and
30:26
I need help with this, you know, but if you're not out there, let's bring this back full
30:31
circle to like these modern tools, the mobile phone, I'm holding up and the social platforms
30:35
which allow you to build an audience for deal creation, like if you're not even doing
30:40
that, sorry, they're going to go to the big bank who's got the ads and the TV and the
30:44
freaking signage and all that stuff, you know, yeah, yeah.
30:46
Yeah.
30:47
Well, there's, okay.
30:48
So there's a really cool strategy.
30:50
I'm going to take us way back to the eighties, okay, and then bring it into real time.
30:54
This is something that we can do now that was not possible 20 years ago.
30:57
So like back in when in the day when remax had the whole above the crowd TV ads, when we
31:02
were, you know, I would watch like my guy were on TV or whatever, but, um, so what they did
31:08
there was one of the best advertising campaigns ever in our space because it looked like
31:14
they were speaking to consumers, but what they were actually doing because it was always
31:18
like come to remax, we have the best agents, whatever it was, right?
31:21
And, but what they were actually doing is it was a massive recruiting campaign for real
31:27
estate agents.
31:28
And so it served, it served two prongs, right?
31:31
It built confidence with consumers and it built their network of real estate agents.
31:37
Now that kind of an approach back then required massive budgets, deep pockets because the only
31:43
way to get to everybody was through TV ads and radio, but today we can do the same exact
31:49
thing with social media for free.
31:51
So we can get on the airwaves, we can talk every day about, um, strategies, financial
31:57
strategies to attract consumers, but there are things that you can do on these social
32:01
platforms to make sure that potential referral partners, your financial planners, your
32:07
lawyers, your real estate agents that they see your content and they actually engage
32:13
back with you.
32:14
And so you can dominate your local market by speaking to consumers and attracting the
32:20
real estate agents.
32:21
And then what we teach our, our loan officers to do is talk about financial strategies that
32:27
cause real estate transactions.
32:29
And so, like up here, we have something called an RESP.
32:33
It's basically a, a kids education fund that you can contribute to and you get matching
32:38
dollars from the government in, and what we, we've got one of our strategies, which
32:42
is our, our ESP versus rental.
32:44
And so what we do is we take that education, government education, contribution plan and
32:48
we show people that, hey, look, instead of putting your money in that for the next 15 years,
32:53
what if you just took that same amount of money and, and used it to fund, you know, an equity
32:57
takeout like a down payment on a rental property, you'd be three times further ahead and your,
33:02
your kid could, you know, refinance and go to school and get the tenant to pay off their
33:06
student loan and it was still on the asset by the time they're done college.
33:10
And so we talk about that.
33:11
And then that causes real estate agents to reach out to our loan officers and say, that's
33:16
a really cool strategy.
33:17
Like, I want to show my clients that because we're teaching real estate agents how to educate
33:22
their clients, how to, why they should consider transacting real estate right now when, which
33:27
is a really, you know, it's a tough market.
33:29
And so what we're doing is we're hijacking this terrible term, but like we're hijacking
33:33
our partners databases in their audience.
33:36
And so we're speaking to consumers, but we're attracting partners and then those, and
33:39
then we teach those partners how to take our consumer content and share it downstream
33:42
with their clients.
33:43
It's working like, it's, it's just amazing.
33:46
It's working really, really well actually.
33:48
So I don't know if that's helpful for your audience, but maybe, maybe there's something
33:51
in there for people.
33:52
100% of that's helpful.
33:53
I mean, that's all about positioning, right?
33:55
Like, and I love the Remax example, because that is such a great illustration of attracting
34:00
two audiences, right, with the same content, essentially.
34:03
And that's again, why you need to be putting content out there.
34:06
Yeah.
34:07
And it's free.
34:08
It costs nothing to do.
34:09
Right.
34:10
The only, the only cost is your time, right, and doing the reps, because let's face it,
34:14
we all start off sucking at ground zero.
34:17
And then you're just going to hopefully, if you keep at it, it's like, I say to people,
34:20
like, you know, you don't try being fit, right?
34:22
You just be fit.
34:24
You live the lifestyle of being fit.
34:26
And the same is true with like today's modern world.
34:28
If you are a commissioned based salesperson, well, you know, this is one of those things
34:34
you've got to get good at, just like back in the day, you had to be good at making
34:37
cold calls and report building and matching and mirroring and all that stuff, right?
34:41
Yeah.
34:42
You need to be good at putting an audience, man, and attracting people to you.
34:45
You know, it's funny that you mentioned that like, when I think back to when I started
34:50
building business development 20 years ago, I did one file, one mortgage transaction in
34:55
the first six months.
34:57
And it's a, it's a bit of a slog, you know, and so it could, those reps that you were
35:02
talking about, you would get out there, you'd make the calls, you'd go have the coffee
35:05
dates, you'd have the lunches, you'd do second round meetings, you'd go see to offices,
35:10
you would do all that kind of stuff.
35:11
And it would take six months, 12 months, sometimes years to build that solid referral base.
35:17
So for some reason today's world, like we pick up the phone and we do that video and
35:20
we do one or two, and then we're like, well, that didn't work.
35:24
And then we quit.
35:25
And it's like, no, you need to do it every day, day in, day out, consistently six months
35:30
a year and and have processes around it so that you can, you can get the results.
35:35
But if you do those things consistently, you will get results.
35:37
Yeah.
35:38
I mean, you get six back abs with one set of setups, you know, maybe when you're 20 years
35:43
old, not anymore, not for me.
35:45
If you, if you got five minute abs, all right, you're good to go, but four minute abs
35:49
came out.
35:50
I don't know if you guys heard.
35:51
I was going to make that joke.
35:52
Oh my gosh, got to do the reps.
35:56
Hey, I'm curious, is divorce a niche up there for mortgage brokers?
36:00
Yeah.
36:01
Yeah.
36:02
Yeah.
36:03
Yeah.
36:04
Yeah.
36:05
Canadian's stay married.
36:06
Just as short.
36:07
You get divorced too.
36:08
Yeah.
36:09
All right.
36:10
That's, I'm just taking like different nuances or divorces and niche for sure, other, other
36:15
niches.
36:17
What about, what do you call it, renovation loans?
36:22
Like, you know, I want to do some improvements on my home or something like that.
36:26
Yeah.
36:27
It's huge.
36:28
We, you know, in the last few years, that's been a big, that's been a big source of business
36:31
for people appear for sure.
36:32
Yeah.
36:33
What do those terms look like?
36:34
How long is that loan?
36:35
I mean, again, it depends, I think a lot of times, like right now in this market, if
36:42
someone say, redid their mortgage two, three years ago, then the goal is probably not
36:47
to redo the mortgage because they're probably sitting at one and a half, two and a half percent
36:50
on their rate.
36:52
So, so you'll, you'll probably do private financing, you know, in a second position to access
36:58
equity so that you're not breaking.
37:00
What does that mean?
37:01
Private financing.
37:02
Private finance.
37:04
So we have like, there's a bunch of layers to our lending environment here.
37:08
So you've got your, your financial institutions, your, your banks, and then, uh, and then
37:13
the next level up from that would be what we call monoline lenders.
37:16
They don't have any other, they're just purely a mortgage lender and they're basically
37:20
securitizing bank money and then relending it out.
37:24
And then, uh, next level up from that would be what we call alternate financing.
37:28
And so, uh, our space is pretty regulated up here.
37:31
So there's, there's very strict guidelines for qualification and debt servicing and things
37:34
like that.
37:35
So bank and monoline level, you're kind of restricted.
37:38
There's only so much you can borrow, but then the moment you have a unique situation like
37:42
yourself employed or you've got, uh, you know, side hustles, multiple source of income
37:47
or you need to stretch your boring capacity or your own multiple properties, you quickly
37:51
move into the alternate space and the alternate space might be like bank rates plus plus
37:56
one plus two and way more flexible criteria.
38:01
And then beyond that, you get into the private like mortgage investment corp, private financing
38:05
where you might pay like anywhere from, you know, eight, nine, double digits, 10, 12
38:10
percent.
38:11
And that's for, you know, very creative situations, uh, emergency funding or second loans
38:17
behind, uh, you know, discounted first mortgages and stuff like that.
38:21
So what, what we might call down here hard money lenders, hard money lenders, so that's
38:25
a big, that is a big segment of our market right now, man.
38:28
I bet.
38:29
Yeah.
38:30
Yeah.
38:31
Oh, hey, when you need it, right?
38:32
Yeah.
38:33
Um, you'd be surprised how many, you know, AAA fully qualified borrowers, like doctors
38:38
and dentists that end up end up going to need in the hard money because of our regulatory
38:43
environments is difficult to qualify up here.
38:46
So we have something called the stress test.
38:48
So if you're, let's say mortgage rates on a five year fix today are six and a half percent,
38:52
let's just say, if you want to qualify for home, you're qualifying at eight and a half
38:57
percent.
38:58
There's a, there's always a two point stress on it to allow for a buffer.
39:02
So yeah, you can't, you don't actually get to use the contract rate for your, to maximize
39:07
your boring power.
39:09
Ouch.
39:10
Yeah.
39:11
Yeah, yeah.
39:12
So, so the average person here is qualifying at eight, nine percent all day long.
39:16
Yeah.
39:17
And so yeah, you take today's higher rates and no, you're not going to qualify at seven.
39:20
It's going to be nine.
39:22
Yeah.
39:23
When it first came into effect, it was, everybody was kind of up in arms about it, but in retrospect
39:26
is a good idea.
39:27
You know, when rates were two percent and they were qualifying, everybody at four or five,
39:32
now that rates have moved up, I think that saved a lot of people.
39:36
But when you're at the top end of the curve, qualifying at eight, nine points, that's, that's
39:41
tough.
39:42
That, that, so it's very difficult to get people qualified.
39:45
So the alternate space and the private space, the hard money space, that's vibrant right
39:49
now for us.
39:51
So let's just say I've been in my loan for five years and I've been at that fixed rate
39:54
for five years.
39:55
When I originally got it, I was qualified at the start rate plus two, the stress test,
40:00
right?
40:01
Yeah.
40:02
But then now that loan is ending, not because I want to end it, but just because the term
40:05
is done, but now it's the qualification process all over again.
40:09
So if you're just, if you're just renewing with your lender and you're not accessing any
40:13
additional funds, probably, and you've made all your payments on time, so no real material
40:19
change, you're, you're going to be offered, you know, a renewal rate with the lender.
40:25
But the moment you want to make a change, the moment you want to add funds on the, on
40:29
the renewal, the moment you maybe weren't fully up to speed on your payments or, you know,
40:34
you've got delinquencies or anything like that, you're going to be pushed into re-qualifying.
40:39
And if you don't qualify at that same institutional level, then you're, you're going to have no choice
40:44
but to go to the next, next tier up to see if you can get those funds.
40:47
Yeah.
40:48
Very interesting.
40:49
So then the more affluent borrowers, are they going with that investment option for, for
40:57
loans or?
40:58
Yeah.
40:59
There's a lot of, so it's what I said.
41:00
So it used to, there really is no stigma around it anymore because like I said, fully qualified,
41:06
high income earners, you know, really what you would expect to be a AAA borrower, they're
41:10
often going to alternate or private, hard money financing as solutions.
41:18
You know, even myself, like I'm in the process right now of possibly changing my main home,
41:25
my wife and I are looking for a place.
41:27
And because the market's a little bit slower, we have to, you know, the time, trying to
41:31
time the buy and the sell is really tough.
41:34
And you know, we've got three kids.
41:36
And so on paper, we qualify, but managing, you know, we want to buy that for that next
41:41
place.
41:42
And you don't want to be homeless and you want to then take the time to sell and a cheap
41:46
top dollar.
41:47
So bridging that gap, you know, you have to go, you have to go to that alternate or private
41:54
financing.
41:55
So there's lots of really good qualified borrowers that are using these types of loans
41:59
to make the deal happen and then restructuring after the fact or whatever.
42:04
You may have answered this earlier.
42:05
So I apologize, but let's say I'm in that five year term for that loan, right?
42:09
And then we're in a rate drop market.
42:12
Can I get out of that and just refine to the lower rate?
42:14
Yeah, you can.
42:15
So if you're in a variable rate product or an adjustable rate product, then it's a three
42:19
month interest penalty.
42:20
But if you're in a fixed term, we have a, our penalty is called the interest rate differential.
42:26
And so let's say you're, you're sitting at 6% and you've got a year left on your term
42:32
and you want to break it and you're going to get a new mortgage at 4%.
42:35
You kind of the way that it's not exactly this, but you kind of pay that 2% differential
42:40
as a penalty.
42:42
And so the lender always wins that work to do the loan.
42:46
You can, you can amortize it in and the new lender, if there's enough equity, you can
42:49
increase the mortgage balance to cover it at the lower rate.
42:53
So, you know, they're, yeah, so it just depends on where you are in your term, how many
42:56
years you've got left and what the differential is and that drives your penalty.
42:59
So it's hard to tell you exactly how that works, but that's fundamentally the formula.
43:07
Have you been privy to this NAR lawsuit, the National Association of Realtors?
43:14
I haven't followed it a bit, but it's not impacting us at all on the worries of your
43:18
career.
43:19
No, I'm just kidding.
43:20
Yeah.
43:21
You have a national association like that up there for real estate agents?
43:26
Yeah, we've got, we've got CREA, which is a Canadian Real Estate Association.
43:32
Yeah, it's similar, but still, Realtors are regulated at a, what we call a provincial
43:38
level or would be a state level across Canada.
43:42
And there has been, there has been some talk of, you know, some class action type stuff
43:50
in Ontario.
43:51
And nothing, nothing like you're seeing with the NAR.
43:54
Yeah.
43:55
And then is this the structure similar where, you know, you've got a listing agent and
43:58
there's a commission and some goes to the buyer, some goes to the seller.
44:01
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
44:02
It's not quite a 50, 50 split, but, but, you know, it's, it leans in favor of the listing
44:07
agents slightly up here.
44:10
And some provinces are better than others, but Ontario in particular has a vary.
44:14
It's like seven.
44:15
Ah, man, someone's going to call me out on this.
44:16
It's wrong.
44:17
But I want to say it's like five, maybe it's five to seven percent of the, of the value
44:22
of the property as the real estate fees, you know, and it's flat across the board.
44:25
Whereas in other provinces, it's kind of a graduated grid.
44:29
So, yeah.
44:30
So those are set by the provinces.
44:32
Those aren't negotiated.
44:33
Ah, I think, I think homeowners can negotiate them.
44:35
But at the end of the day, they're, they're, they're widely set by the industry.
44:40
And I think, I think a lot of the real, the industry participants hold firm to those
44:45
standards.
44:46
Interesting.
44:47
Very interesting.
44:48
Okay.
44:49
All right, well, this has been very, very educational.
44:54
Let's kind of circle back and put a cap on this when it comes to marketing and, you know,
44:59
let me ask you this way.
45:01
So, so 20, 20, you have, you know, essentially you're supporting 400 mortgage brokers, right?
45:08
People out there originating loans.
45:11
Are there any specific actions or strategies or focus, you know, to finish out this
45:18
year, strong and build momentum for the new year that you would be coaching them around?
45:23
Yeah.
45:24
You know, when, when you're really, really busy, the complaint that you hear from people
45:29
like the last couple of years has been, I don't have time to get to everything.
45:32
And a lot of burnout, you know, coming out of those, those busy periods.
45:38
So one of the opportunities that everybody has right now is to just take stock, look at
45:42
your systems, look at your processes, clean things up, get ready for the next wave.
45:47
I try to show people that, you know, it might be slow right now.
45:50
But if we just, if we look at the stats, if we talked about those renewal,
45:53
refi stats that are coming, 2025 is going to be a banner year, get ready for that.
45:57
What are the things that you can do?
45:59
So, you know, if you're in different markets throughout the United States,
46:03
there might be different reasons that your local market could, could be, you know,
46:08
busier or less busy over the next six months, 12 months, whatever that is in your area.
46:13
You know, look forward to it.
46:14
And then what can you do today to get organized and ready for it?
46:18
But then the other part of it is just, you know, breaking, getting attention,
46:23
that whole attention conversion conversation.
46:25
There are some really, there's some low hanging fruit out there.
46:29
And if you're not, you know, I think it's no longer a question of whether you should have
46:33
an online or a social media presence anymore.
46:36
So you're not doing these things, you're just, you're just leaving money on the table.
46:39
And so take the opportunity to get, get comfy with it, you know, get in the groove,
46:44
do your reps.
46:45
Yeah.
46:46
That's a great point.
46:47
I mean, now's the time to build those skillsets, right?
46:49
Where you didn't quote unquote have time before.
46:51
Yeah.
46:52
It's, you know, these, these, or these markets like this, you know, the, the term survival
46:57
of the fittest comes to mind.
46:58
But I like to do the different spin on that, which is it's not about survival of the fittest.
47:02
It's the most adaptable who survive, which is true quote from easy, by the way.
47:09
That's right.
47:10
Yeah.
47:11
And so ability is the ability to learn new skills, right?
47:16
And adapt new skills based on the environment that you're in.
47:20
And so that would be, I would just lay around top what you said.
47:23
Yeah.
47:24
And then if you have, if you have a goal, if you have a vision for what that looks like
47:27
for you, like, you know, in a perfect world, I'm, I have this, this much audience or
47:32
this many referral partners or this much volume or units or whatever it is, give yourself
47:37
a break too.
47:38
Like it takes time, you know, 20 years ago, we understood it took time to build a business.
47:45
For whatever reason, people are really impatient these days.
47:48
And stop chasing the shiny object.
47:50
Just apply yourself.
47:52
It's not complicated and just really, really focus on, like you said earlier, do the reps
47:57
and give yourself that window of time to see the results and keep applying yourself.
48:03
Even though you might not get the results today, there's a tipping point where those
48:06
results start to, like, you know, they start to show up.
48:10
Give yourself enough of a window to like realize that.
48:13
Yeah.
48:14
Momentum takes time.
48:15
It does.
48:16
Yeah.
48:17
You know, and I think of the like the 10,000 hours concept that it takes 10,000 hours to
48:22
get, quote unquote, good at something.
48:24
Like we could do a whole conversation on that because that's not actually 100% accurate.
48:27
But I geek out on that kind of stuff, sorry, but I like the, I like the modern version
48:33
of that, which is if you do something for 100 hours, you're better than 95% of the
48:37
rest of the planet.
48:38
That that thing.
48:39
That's not a fact.
48:40
100 hours feels like a whole heck of a lot easier to me.
48:42
Right.
48:43
Right.
48:44
And so it's like, you know, people talk about habits and practice.
48:46
But it's really about, you know, I've been kind of geeking out on the book, Atomic
48:49
Habits.
48:50
And the truth of the matters when you dig into like the concept and the foundation of that
48:54
book, it really isn't about habits because that habits by in and of by themselves don't
48:59
really produce change.
49:01
What produces change is what they call the basis of his book was actually the study of
49:05
a deliberate practice.
49:08
But James Clear has admitted that if he titled the book deliberate practice, it would not
49:12
have sold, right?
49:13
No, yeah.
49:14
Atomic deliberate practice.
49:16
Right.
49:17
Right.
49:18
So everybody's like, Oh, habits, I get that deliberate practice.
49:19
I don't know what the hell that is.
49:21
And that's when you're obviously intentionally deliberately practicing something to get
49:25
better at that, right?
49:27
Which is partly volume, but partly iterating too.
49:30
Part.
49:31
Yeah.
49:32
So I did the, you've heard of the 75 hard program.
49:36
Yeah.
49:37
So I did that this summer.
49:38
I didn't finish it.
49:39
I just felt this closure.
49:40
I bailed on day 53.
49:42
But in those first 53 days, I noticed, yeah, I ended up going to a networking event and
49:48
we ate like all kinds of rich food and I was like, I realized about 12 hours into the
49:52
event.
49:53
And I'm kind of not on my diet.
49:55
We're in, we're in conference season right now here in Canada.
49:58
So I'm going to get back to it.
49:59
But in that 53 days, I made a massive change in my life.
50:03
But what I noticed though, it's been about, it's been about six weeks since I came off
50:07
the program.
50:08
So it's kind of doing it over the summer.
50:09
And then sort of mid September, I came off it.
50:12
And a lot of the habits that I created just in those first 53 days were that deliberate
50:17
practice, you know, drinking a certain amount like the gallon of water every day or whatever
50:21
and the exercise and reading a book, those habits have stuck with me.
50:26
So even though I'm not technically doing the program, I'm still doing a lot of things
50:30
in that program.
50:31
And that was only like not even two months of applied deliberate practice.
50:35
Cool.
50:36
And so it can really make a difference, yeah.
50:37
Yeah.
50:38
And it pays dividends.
50:39
All right, man.
50:40
Listen, we got top of the hour.
50:41
This has been a great conversation for those who want to connect with you more and reach
50:44
out.
50:45
Where do you want to direct them?
50:46
Yeah.
50:47
So I've got a website, you know, my link tree is JasonHanaberry.com.
50:53
So that's JasonHanaberry's H-E-D-L-N-E-B-E-W-R-Y.com.
50:59
And then same, that's my Instagram handle, too.
51:01
That's probably the easiest place.
51:03
Okay.
51:04
We'll link it up in the show notes to make it easy for people to follow you and connect.
51:07
And I would definitely encourage people to do so.
51:09
They can find all the information about the things you do there to help mortgage originators.
51:14
So hey, man.
51:15
And an awesome conversation.
51:16
I really, really appreciate it.
51:17
I appreciate it.
51:18
You have me on the show, man.
51:19
It's been good to get to know you.
51:20
Same here.
51:21
So listeners, you know what to do.
51:22
If you'd like this episode, hey, leave a review, share it with somebody.
51:24
Go follow Jason on the links, and I will see you all in the next one.
51:27
All right.
51:28
Well, thanks for tuning into today's episode.
51:29
Hey, you got a question for you.
51:30
Are you struggling to get engagement and referrals from real estate agents and feeling like you're
51:34
constantly fighting for business in a crowded market?
51:38
What if I told you there's a way to attract agents to a provide unique value that helps
51:42
them grow their business and generate referrals on demand, helping you become the dominant
51:47
loan officer in your local market.
51:49
Look, I was an originator for over 10 years.
51:52
I understand the frustration of feeling like you're just another player in a sea of competitors.
51:55
And you're struggling to stand out and get noticed by the agents that you want to attract
52:00
and engage with.
52:01
What if I told you this way to flip the script and position yourself as the go to lending
52:05
your market attracting agents, not chasing, not paying for leads, not co-calling, but
52:10
actually generating referrals on demand.
52:13
And the best part, you don't have to ever make a co-caller chase leads again.
52:17
You don't have to work with weenie head agents if you don't want to.
52:20
This is what we help the originators do at the my agent classes membership.
52:25
What do you get?
52:26
You get exclusive access to our private community of like-minded law officers where you can network,
52:30
share best practices, get ongoing support to grow your business, and you get a turnkey
52:35
platform that helps you build your personal brand that moves you from solicitor and vendor
52:40
to partner in peer.
52:42
You attract agents, you increase conversations, and you increase your referrals.
52:47
All without chasing, without begging, playing the game, paying for leads, you just by doing
52:53
what you love to do, which is help other people solve problems.
52:57
So how do you learn more?
52:59
Go to mortgage marketing.pro.
53:01
What could call with me?
53:02
Now I'll take you through the library of done for you agent classes that you can use
53:05
to just plug and play and follow our proven system of train the trainer.
53:09
You don't have to be the subject matter expert.
53:12
Think of yourself like that nightly news reporter is just sharing the news.
53:15
You also get access to our marketing automation platform that will attract, engage, and
53:20
convert agents to referral partners for you, scripts, checklists, downloads, automated
53:25
email, SMS text messages, done for you landing pages, and more.
53:29
You also get our market maker content, which is the social media images to help you promote
53:33
your class online.
53:35
And again, every Friday at our mortgage marketing mastermind call, you get access to
53:39
top L.O. speakers, coaches, connect and collaborate with what's working right now in today's
53:44
market to help you grow your business.
53:45
So you don't have to struggle and try and figure it out all on your own.
53:49
Don't miss the opportunity to learn more about what's helping so many originers succeed
53:54
and become the go to lender in your local market.
53:57
Click a call with me now.
53:58
Mortgage Marketing Duff Bro.
53:59
We'll see you on the other side.