Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #53 - Building a Personal Brand through Social Media in the Legal Industry with Hunter Garnett

Transcript

#53 - Building a Personal Brand through Social Media in the Legal Industry with Hunter Garnett · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

• 0:00
  I think I'm about to shift my social media business pages from
• 0:04
  let's get things out
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: there,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: get eyeballs,
• 0:06
  generate attention to let's have some really high quality
• 0:10
  assets that if people go
• 0:12
  to our personal injury or our Facebook page because they're
• 0:14
  thinking about hiring
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: us for a personal injury case,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: they see like just only high quality stuff.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sharp Strategies Sweet Success.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome.
• 0:35
  This is Tiffany Swedenski,
• 0:36
  and you're listening to Sharp Strategies Sweet Success.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Today, I'm here with Hunter Garrett.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know Hunter primarily from LinkedIn,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: and before we got on this call,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I started to get more familiar specifically with him and his firm.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've only talked once before,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: and so it's really nice just getting to know him,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: but I primarily know him from his post on LinkedIn.
• 0:59
  Really appreciate his content there and his insights that he's
• 1:03
  able to provide to
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: other lawyers.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure to have his marketers,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Paris and Andrea,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: join us at the Sharp Marketing Seminar in GM.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a pleasure to have Hunter here on the podcast today.
• 1:17
  So Hunter,
• 1:18
  if you don't mind,
• 1:18
  will you introduce yourself to our listeners?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a personal injury lawyer in Huntsville, Alabama.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I practice pretty much statewide,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: but the majority of my cases,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say 90,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: 95% are just right here in the Tennessee Valley,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: which is North Alabama.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up the oldest of seven kids on a family farm.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I still have a farm and kind of fiddle with that kind of stuff.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have horses and family is very important to me.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just had my first child.
• 1:42
  I just had a newborn and I'm starting to get the hang of a
• 1:45
  little different work-life balance.
• 1:47
  But we've got a law firm here that kind of focuses on community
• 1:51
  involvement,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of referrals,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of grassroots type stuff.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of a fall under...
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bend glasses, kind of philosophy on that kind of stuff.
• 2:00
  And so we get a lot of cases from like organic Google,
• 2:03
  Google business profile leads.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Those are probably 20 to 30% of our practice.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Client referrals, attorney referrals, making up the rest.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then just community stuff, just people recommending us.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So actually,
• 2:14
  I remember talking with you and giving you the advice to just
• 2:18
  record a lot of
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: videos.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometime after that,
• 2:21
  I looked at your TikTok account and realized like I'd given you
• 2:25
  that advice and you
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: had already started.
• 2:26
  You have a very active TikTok account and you're posting quite
• 2:30
  a lot of videos.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems to be mostly personal stuff.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I just haven't looked hard enough,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: but that seems to be,
• 2:37
  you don't seem to be posting too many like legal FAQs or things
• 2:41
  like that.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I don't have like a scientific reason for that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Most of my cases come from my personal Facebook page.
• 2:49
  And I just kind of have several thousand friends or a few
• 2:52
  thousand friends,
• 2:53
  whatever it is.
• 2:54
  And it's a way for me to stay top of mind with like 2000 people
• 2:58
  just through a
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: short post or a short picture.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't do a lot of video on there.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's mostly written content.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I use that kind of to build,
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think most of our cases come from what I call super fans,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: which are like people that go out of their way,
• 3:09
  like to cut through the noise and give you a really exceptional
• 3:13
  recommendation.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how I've gotten most of my cases.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're trying to be, we're starting to really get some momentum.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're handling some of the biggest cases in the Tennessee Valley.
• 3:23
  And so we're trying to leverage that along with a little bit of
• 3:26
  video content just
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: to kind of be everywhere.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to start doing some
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: paid social ads,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit of paid search,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: not much,
• 3:33
  really just enough to appear like you can't go anywhere without
• 3:37
  finding this.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: so that's so interesting that you're,
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: you're Facebook famous and,
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: kind of the example I like to think of,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm sure this isn't true anymore,
• 3:48
  but I think Vin Diesel was like the first person on Facebook to
• 3:51
  have like a million
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: friends or something like that.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I forget what the actual stat was,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: but so you,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: you,
• 3:57
  you credit that just kind of presence on Facebook and just
• 4:01
  expanding your social
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: circles that way as,
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: as a big source of your cases.
• 4:06
  Yeah,
• 4:06
  it's just a way to stay top of mind with people that know,
• 4:09
  like,
• 4:09
  and trust you at scale.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so important.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these friends are local.
• 4:16
  2,000 of them are going to be people from my little town of
• 4:20
  20,000 people.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: But those 2,000 people have connections with the whole community.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: The roots go everywhere.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're basically, when you're
• 4:30
  When you have a thousand people that are thinking of you every
• 4:33
  three or four days
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: and they like you,
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: they like a picture of you on a horse.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: They like your picture, your baby.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my wife is very sweet and very popular.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's in dermatology, so she has a lot of patients from the community.
• 4:44
  They just need a little nudge before they'll go out of their
• 4:47
  way to recommend you
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: in line at Walmart or to the person at church or to...
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know, whoever it might be.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So was this Facebook strategy intentional?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like did you like said,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Ali,
• 5:01
  I'm going to get real big on Facebook or did you just naturally
• 5:04
  get there?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: it was just kind of,
• 5:07
  I think my first kind of strategic thought was like Gary Vee's
• 5:10
  philosophy of
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: attention is a currency,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 5:13
  And I just thought there's no harm in more people knowing me,
• 5:18
  liking me,
• 5:19
  trusting me.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so let me post stuff that kind of shows who I,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: and I think I'm,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's maybe arrogant,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: but I consider myself a likable,
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: trustworthy person.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just put yourself out there.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just talk about stuff that matters to you.
• 5:33
  To be candid with that,
• 5:34
  I used to post a lot of political stuff and I don't really much
• 5:36
  anymore.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I do a little bit here and there,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: but mostly I just try to post feel good,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: community focused stuff,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: family focused.
• 5:44
  And this is kind of more anecdotal observations just from the
• 5:48
  people that I see on Facebook.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: it does seem like it's pretty,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: like I have friends who post like controversial,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: strong opinions that,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm neutral,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: that's their opinions,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: then it's a lot of discussion and I guess engagement,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: you would call it likes and things like that.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: But the people who are mostly positive, who just have this kind of aura,
• 6:12
  um to use a gen z thing um they seem to just do better on these
• 6:18
  platforms they have
• 6:19
  more people following them they get more engagement the
• 6:21
  comments are more positive
• 6:23
  and that i guess you know outside looking in you know i'd much
• 6:26
  rather be with the
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: or follow the positive person than somebody who's negative i guess
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll push back just a little.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need to stand for something.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good to...
• 6:38
  I think your marketing content should repel a certain
• 6:41
  percentage of clients.
• 6:43
  For most small law firms,
• 6:44
  you can't expect to be the lawyer for everybody.
• 6:46
  And so that's part of the reason that I'm very candid about my
• 6:50
  faith and it's in our content.
• 6:52
  If you spend an hour looking at my stuff,
• 6:54
  you're going to know a lot of what I believe.
• 6:57
  And I want clients to know that before they come in,
• 6:59
  one,
• 7:00
  to help me stand out from the crowd.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: They may,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people appreciate a like-minded lawyer,
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: but others,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: not that I,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't treat anybody differently based on what they believe,
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: but they may not be comfortable because there is,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: there's going to be like scripture on the wall.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's Bibles in the bookshelf.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be sprinkling in,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: little,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: anecdotes about my faith in almost every conversation.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's something they're not comfortable with.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's other lawyers that approach,
• 7:26
  that separate their faith and their personal life from their
• 7:29
  professional life.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like personally with Facebook in particular,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: let's say 10 years ago,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook was a distraction.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Social media was a little bit less mature, I guess, than it is now.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And generally the attitude that at least I got at the time was that,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: not a good use of your time.
• 7:50
  And generally like there were also privacy concerns about
• 7:55
  putting your life out
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: there in that way.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: kind of the negative stuff that I've heard about that in the past.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: But today, like people are need to be more authentic.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they have to show themselves,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: which means kind of putting that personality and private life out there.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then also like,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:15
  talking to you and talking to people I know who use like
• 8:19
  LinkedIn and these other
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: platforms who say it generates a lot of business for them.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not a waste of time.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a distraction.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's an important part of developing this, like, personal brand identity.
• 8:32
  And it's just so interesting how these things evolve over,
• 8:35
  you know,
• 8:36
  10,
• 8:36
  15 years.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are using Facebook groups like a search engine often,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: especially rural communities,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: suburbs,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to yard sale pages,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: kind of the local news pages,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: not like news stations,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: but groups.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they look for personal injury lawyers there.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: They look for car accident lawyers.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: They look for every type of service you can think of.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have encouraged my clients,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: my former clients,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: my friends,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: other attorneys to tag me and that kind of stuff.
• 9:11
  And it creates this kind of like snowball effect where other
• 9:15
  clients see it and say,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then they start doing it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had posts where there was one just like a month ago,
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: had about 50 comments,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: 28 of them were people tagging me or my law firm.
• 9:25
  The other 22 were like two lawyers here,
• 9:28
  three lawyers there,
• 9:28
  four lawyers there.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you get that case, and it wasn't a good case.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: it was not a good case,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: but people now in the coming months,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: they'll go to that Facebook group and Google,
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: they'll type in,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: they're not Google,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: but they'll type in the search bar,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: car accident lawyer,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: and guess what's going to pop up?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: The post where I'm recommended 28 times.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's absolutely fantastic.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 9:52
  so strategies I've heard involving Facebook groups before are
• 9:57
  awfully systematized,
• 9:58
  but it just sounds like you just are just asking people when
• 10:02
  you talk to them,
• 10:03
  like tag us in a Facebook group or tag us in a if there's a car
• 10:07
  accident posted on
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: the Facebook group,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: we'd really appreciate it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys do any any tracking or do you like
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know, ask them to do a specific thing?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you only ask specific people to do this or just your clients?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of everybody.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I tell a lot of clients on the front end when I meet with them,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I give them this,
• 10:26
  I spend a lot of client time the first day that we meet to
• 10:30
  build trust and then
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: also tell them what my expectations are.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have not a volume practice here,
• 10:35
  but we have hundreds of cases and we handle the smallest soft
• 10:39
  tissue cases that you
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: can think of.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the purpose is they're almost like a loss leader.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 33 years old, so I want to ingrain in them from day one.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what my expectation is.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to treat you like family,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm going to get you a great outcome,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to give you exceptional customer service,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: and blah,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in exchange, here's what I want.
• 10:59
  It's a small nominal legal fee,
• 11:01
  but I expect a Google review if that's your thing.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I expect to recommend me on Facebook if that's your thing.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I expect that you will want to recommend me to your
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: friends and family.
• 11:12
  And I just tell them what my expectations are and also tell
• 11:15
  them what their
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: expectations should be for me of how often we'll communicate with them,
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: how quickly we'll be removing the case from start to finish.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes if it's a really straightforward case,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give them kind of a range of like,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: here's what you can expect to recover.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: No guarantees, but in my experience.
• 11:33
  And I found that conversation,
• 11:34
  I think our Google review rate is crazy high.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the exact number,
• 11:38
  but it's probably over 50% of our clients leave a Google review
• 11:43
  at the end of the
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: case,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: so.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I really just love your very organic,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: you call it approach to all of this stuff,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: because,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: when I hear about these programs,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: like I said,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: they're also systematized,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: pay us $2,000 and we'll use Facebook group to give you cases.
• 12:05
  and actually had a law firm bought into a package like that
• 12:08
  once and it resulted in
• 12:10
  absolutely nothing because it was basically a scam and because
• 12:15
  it's hard to
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: approach these online communities with sales intent.
• 12:22
  People know when you're posting something for the most part
• 12:25
  promotional on a
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook group or promotional on Reddit and those things get removed.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it has to be organic.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise,
• 12:35
  it's just not going to pass muster and you're just not going to
• 12:38
  crack that
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: particular channel here lately.
• 12:43
  And I actually don't believe I've shared this with my
• 12:46
  mastermind group yet,
• 12:47
  but I will soon.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But we're developing a Reddit marketing plan for law firms.
• 12:53
  And I wanted to do this because initially I was given a Reddit
• 12:58
  marketing plan that
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: was very salesy.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I go to Reddit, do this, do that.
• 13:03
  And it was a lot of like tricking and we're just doing it to
• 13:07
  get a backlink and up
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: votes or something like that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But instead,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: like I reimagine it and it's like,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: let's approach Reddit like you would approach LinkedIn,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: like show up as yourself.
• 13:18
  offer helpful information make posts do comments upvote
• 13:22
  downvote gain karma over
• 13:24
  time and then when you uh your team comes across you know an
• 13:29
  accident post you can
• 13:30
  confidently say like hey we help people with this all the time
• 13:33
  contact us and the
• 13:35
  post will get taken down immediately but it's a commitment and
• 13:39
  it's it's this
• 13:40
  organic process of like engaging with reddit not as a marketer
• 13:44
  or a salesperson but
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know as an individual almost
• 13:48
  And I think you got to the kind of the core of my philosophy
• 13:50
  with Facebook because
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: that's kind of what it's,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I paid my dues.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've got friends I've had for a long time on there,
• 13:55
  but it's outside relationships that I've developed that this is
• 13:59
  just a way to stay
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: in front of them at scale.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what about TikTok for you?
• 14:06
  Do you have a strategy that you're using specifically for that
• 14:09
  or is it more personal?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 14:11
  I'll tell you my social media strategy has always been find
• 14:15
  platforms that I enjoy
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: and put whatever is fun on there.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And or whatever I'm fired up about,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: that's how I approach LinkedIn is I just,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: typically not really trying to get cases.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an outlet to use social media.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook's kind of the same way.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then TikTok, sometimes I'm hot and I'm cold.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll post videos on my personal TikTok where I.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: ramble about stuff.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then the firm TikTok is Paris, really.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they do cute little office, stupid office skits a lot.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll send her every once in a while a selfie.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get 10 or 15 minutes of video that I'll just send her and say,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: see what you can make out of this.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a very efficient process or a strategy,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: but we get some cases from TikTok,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: not many,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: like one a quarter,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's something, but it's pretty close to nothing.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: and truth be told,
• 15:08
  like I hear more people saying I'm getting cases from ChatGPT
• 15:12
  than I'm getting
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: cases from TikTok.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: if we're being honest,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: if somebody is vetting a car accident attorney,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: they're probably not going to TikTok.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're probably going to ChatGPT or Google.
• 15:23
  I'm starting to focus a little more on converting higher
• 15:27
  quality leads versus
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: generating more leads.
• 15:31
  And I don't mean high quality in terms of case value,
• 15:33
  really high quality in terms of the
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: type of client that I want to represent.
• 15:37
  And so I think I'm about to shift my social media business
• 15:42
  pages from let's get
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: things out there,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: get eyeballs,
• 15:45
  generate attention to let's have some really high quality
• 15:49
  assets that if people go
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: to our personal injury or our Facebook page,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: because they're thinking about hiring us for a personal injury case,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: they see like just only high quality stuff,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: only high quality posts that's
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: designed to turn them into clients.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of the same thing on TikTok.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to do a little better job of just,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: that's why I like to talk about personal stuff on TikTok is I don't,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: the frequently asked questions,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: there's lots of stuff out there.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want the people who are,
• 16:13
  they got it narrowed down to like two or three lawyers in the
• 16:15
  Huntsville area.
• 16:17
  And they're going to spend an hour looking at each one of us
• 16:20
  and go with their gut
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: at the end of it.
• 16:23
  And I'm going to get that case almost every time if I do a good
• 16:26
  job of putting my
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: authentic content out there,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: just my mindset.
• 16:30
  So you certainly sound like you see yourself basically having
• 16:35
  marketers take over
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: company accounts to create high quality content.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as like your personal,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: your personal Facebook,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: your personal TikTok,
• 16:46
  are you going to continue doing that as your company grows or
• 16:50
  do you see yourself
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: delegating any of those?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll keep doing it myself.
• 16:56
  I would love to have an EA in my Facebook inbox,
• 16:59
  but I just haven't quite gotten there yet.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really like the idea of,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: or at least the mindset of approaching,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: like if somebody comes to our Facebook page,
• 17:10
  we only want to show them high quality stuff to convert them
• 17:15
  because you're right.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 17:16
  somebody who's visiting an Instagram page and they're looking
• 17:19
  for an attorney,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: then they want to,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: they need to see that conversion stuff.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're vetting you at that point.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess I'm curious, do you see yourself like driving leads
• 17:33
  directly from like Instagram to like a phone call or like if
• 17:39
  you're tracking your
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: calls,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: are they still mostly coming from like Google,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Google business?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like how is that shaking out currently?
• 17:46
  Yeah,
• 17:47
  it's Google business calls or,
• 17:49
  you know,
• 17:49
  that's where they're pretty much all coming from.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:53
  sometimes they call the office is like legit number and that's
• 17:56
  typically that's for
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: a business card.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I still do a ton of old fashioned like
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: boots on the ground.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Monday,
• 18:03
  I took like 30 pounds of ground fork to half a dozen
• 18:07
  chiropractors in Madison,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: which is the next town over.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And some of them are existing referral partners.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of them are kind of prospects.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of them was brand new.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually one of the best uses of my time.
• 18:19
  It's like getting out on the ground and going to my top 10%
• 18:22
  referral partners and
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: just further in our relationship.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So as far as like nurturing their referral partners,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: are you just going to them and giving them nice gifts or is there like a
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: newsletter,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: e-newsletter involved?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you planning for them to be one?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I need a newsletter.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you what I'm going to do.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want a newsletter, yes.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a newsletter yet.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, I'm just, it's just relationships.
• 18:49
  I kind of,
• 18:49
  are you familiar with Jordan Harbinson that does a podcast
• 18:52
  about networking?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I guess not.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll look him up later though.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a good show.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's non-legal,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: but I like his kind of,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of took some of his stuff where I just,
• 19:01
  I just try to text all these people like every six months and
• 19:04
  just like check in or
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: comment on a Facebook post.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like it's not, it's not that much work.
• 19:09
  And then I like to give really personal gifts if I can come up
• 19:13
  with something like,
• 19:14
  you know,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: like a bench made knife, a custom knife or like their logo on it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's my favorite gift to receive.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so like,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: if I know somebody would like that,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: like I got Conrad that with mockingbird,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: that was my gift,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: showing him how much I appreciated him.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then whatever I can think of coffee mugs.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love custom coffee mugs, um, star Wars stuff.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll find out like I got a chiropractor.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: He loves star Wars.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I just get him like, um,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: a nice watch or whatever.
• 19:41
  And then,
• 19:42
  but then whenever I think of them,
• 19:43
  I just try to pop in and give them something.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I've found with chiropractors specifically, food is good.
• 19:48
  I don't generally like giving food as a gift,
• 19:51
  but I eat real healthy,
• 19:53
  clean stuff.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is like no sugar, you know, no process.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is literally just pork, just ground pork.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll take it to them and like tell that to them.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they usually take their health seriously too.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of shows like, hey, we're similar.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're the same tribe, that kind of stuff.
• 20:08
  What I'm really coming to admire about you is it sounds like
• 20:11
  you're just doing this
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: stuff,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: but it doesn't sound like maybe you're tracking it really specifically.
• 20:19
  Is there a spreadsheet where you're tracking who you've texted
• 20:22
  in the last six months?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: There is a hundred spreadsheets.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're not unguided.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, it's even worse.
• 20:33
  I create a spreadsheet and never open it back up again and
• 20:37
  create another one and
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: never open it back up.
• 20:38
  No,
• 20:39
  it's all...
• 20:40
  My whole referral network is right between my ears,
• 20:43
  basically.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: what I'll do,
• 20:44
  I try to go through my text pretty often and just scroll way
• 20:48
  back and kind of look
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: to see who I haven't talked to in a while.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we now...
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And two, like hand delivering checks.
• 20:55
  Like I kind of keep a little feel for just,
• 20:57
  I haven't seen this guy in a while.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm trying to do a better job of tracking that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know, okay, this guy hasn't sent me a case in six months.
• 21:05
  The six months before he sent me five,
• 21:07
  something's happened,
• 21:08
  you know,
• 21:09
  but I don't track it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what that you're doing now,
• 21:14
  do you think you'll move to like another team member as far as
• 21:18
  referrals go?
• 21:20
  What do you see yourself keeping solely like as the law firm
• 21:23
  owner versus what
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: you're gonna hand off to somebody else down the road?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'd hand the whole thing off, you know, if I could.
• 21:29
  I don't see anything that we're doing now that can't be done by
• 21:33
  somebody else at a
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: reasonably proficient level.
• 21:37
  Now,
• 21:38
  I think the lawyer is almost always going to,
• 21:40
  I mean,
• 21:41
  I'm a good marketer.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of almost, I mean, I'm a lawyer first.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't even start to say that, but it's like 1A, 1B.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a great marketer.
• 21:49
  And so the trouble I run into is I can do most of the marketing
• 21:55
  better than I think
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: anybody that I could outsource to or hire,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
• 22:01
  it's honestly taking a lot of other stuff off my plate and
• 22:03
  focusing on marketing is
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: what I want to do.
• 22:06
  And then I want to scale kind of underneath me through
• 22:08
  assistance and fractional
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: services and vendors and things like that.
• 22:13
  and just have a strategic kind of overview soup to nuts of what
• 22:17
  I want in my
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: marketing plan and then implement the things that I'm the best at,
• 22:22
  which is probably going to be the kind of stuff we're talking
• 22:24
  about really like one
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: on one,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: like going to chiropractic clinics,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: going to other law firm events.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: We generate a lot of attorney referrals.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my question for you is,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: as somebody who wants to stay plugged into marketing,
• 22:39
  what do you need the most in terms of executing your vision
• 22:43
  that you can't do
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: yourself?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're going to find,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: and I think this is going to be common,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: is most attorneys who have a desire to really focus on marketing or not,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: executors or not integrators.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: They aren't great at getting things done.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, they're kind of visionaries, they're creatives.
• 23:05
  So that's what would compliment me the most is implement like
• 23:10
  just people that like
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: where my job is just to make the videos,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: build the relationships,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: like kind of come up with the playbook,
• 23:17
  but they implement the plays and make sure that pieces move
• 23:20
  together like they
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: should to support the lawyer that's the face of the firm.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just for me to get a little bit clarity on what you mean by that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: You need an implementer and an executor.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me back up.
• 23:37
  EOS,
• 23:39
  you have an integrator and a visionary typically in an
• 23:44
  exceptional company.
• 23:46
  And I was in one of John Knockhazel's mastermind,
• 23:52
  little subgroups at John Fisher.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out John Fisher.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: He's the GOAT.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: His mastermind.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And John Knockhazel gave me the best compliment he's ever given me.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm bragging right now.
• 24:01
  So he told me I kind of have the integrator and the visionary
• 24:05
  like in one.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently that's unusual.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't, I'm a forced integrator though.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a natural visionary.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It comes easy.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It gives me energy.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I can,
• 24:17
  integrate or implement systems under the EOS model and run the
• 24:22
  day-to-day type
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: stuff when I have to.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had to because I'm a 33-year-old, relatively new lawyer.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But now...
• 24:32
  the next step in my progression as a law firm owner is to just
• 24:36
  be the visionary.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Trial attorney and visionary,
• 24:38
  that's the only two things that I want to do is just handle the
• 24:42
  marketing,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: handle the leadership,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: high-level stuff,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: and then litigate our biggest,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: hairiest cases,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: basically.
• 24:49
  Was there something that you wanted us to go over that we
• 24:52
  didn't really get to talk about?
• 24:54
  So probably my favorite thing to talk about that we haven't
• 24:57
  talked about is virtual assistants.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big believer in
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: offshore and near shore assistance at your law firm.
• 25:05
  Some of the best members that I have working for me work in
• 25:08
  other countries.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've got people that have worked for me for over three years overseas.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's allowed me to scale my law firm without
• 25:17
  getting overwhelmed without having to use the line of credit,
• 25:21
  things like that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also allowed me to hire better people.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I've found is I have a big staff.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have 18 people that work on my team.
• 25:29
  And instead of hiring virtual assistants because they're
• 25:32
  cheaper and trying to save
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: money,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: pocket the money,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just have a bigger team.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we have like
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: one and a half people for every job.
• 25:38
  And there's downsides to that,
• 25:41
  but I think that the upside outweighs the downside.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a big believer in that.
• 25:47
  The project I'm working on currently is trying to implement
• 25:48
  more technology.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have a ton of software
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: that we don't use.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we're trying to figure out how to integrate our existing software.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to add?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to take off?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do we implement AI?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have not decided how we're going to implement AI yet.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's about it.
• 26:06
  I'm trying to think there's any interesting marketing stuff
• 26:09
  that we're doing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: it sounds like you guys are doing a ton and you know,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: me personally,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: like I have,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: two marketers who are near shore,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: both out of Mexico.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: One's a project manager with marketing experience.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: The other's my video editor one, and they're absolutely fantastic.
• 26:28
  And it's it's extremely hard for small businesses like yours
• 26:33
  and mine to hire
• 26:34
  somebody with those like specialist marketing skills at even
• 26:38
  close to an affordable
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: rate.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I also have an executive assistant in the US,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: based employee and my executive assistant.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: She does a ton of stuff for me.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I could not live without this woman.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I honestly couldn't.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if I talk too much about it, I'm going to start crying.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, don't take away my EA.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Don't take away Glenda from me.
• 26:58
  But yeah,
• 27:00
  it's such a huge opportunity for people who are in her
• 27:03
  position,
• 27:04
  who...
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can't afford an in-house full-time marketer in the US.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's just, that's a high bar.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you can,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: and you can give somebody,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:13
  good experience and maybe a better salary than they're able to
• 27:17
  get jobs within
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: their own country.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I just, I absolutely love it.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I honestly couldn't run my business without it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question.
• 27:27
  So I have had a ton of success on the operations side of my law
• 27:31
  firm hiring offshore near shore.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our whole pre-lit department is outside the US.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have unsuccessful, I've been unsuccessful with marketing hours though.
• 27:42
  And so where did you,
• 27:43
  like,
• 27:43
  have you talked about that on your show before?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something you talked about?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's just say no, and I don't mind talking about it again.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: So like my experience with that is like you can train like a generalized,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: EA or executive assistant on some marketing tasks.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're very, you know, if you can give them a checklist and
• 28:05
  an understandable easy outcome it's it's perfect um but for
• 28:09
  marketing work um you
• 28:11
  really just need those specialists and they come at maybe a
• 28:15
  little bit higher price
• 28:16
  point than like a generic ba um but they come with really good
• 28:21
  experience so one of
• 28:23
  the marketers i'm working with um he has a master's in
• 28:28
  marketing he taught at a
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: university
• 28:31
  in Mexico,
• 28:32
  he taught marketing,
• 28:33
  he did graphic design for Toyota for a little bit.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's working for one of my law firms and and I'll pat myself on the back.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was worried I didn't have very much to teach this man.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But fortunately for me, he didn't know anything about legal marketing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so
• 28:48
  He's able to do some high level design and create some really
• 28:52
  quality content.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I'm really impressed with his work.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, miles beyond what I could produce.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: he needs,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: a fair bit of guidance on how to make it work for legal marketing.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, also we all have our core competencies.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have tech abilities that he doesn't.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as taste and design, this man is excellent.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of collaboration that can be had.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can get somebody with some deep experience in marketing,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: and they'll do some really high-level work for you.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty incredible.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love to have a video editor.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I've interviewed some.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit of a control freak.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: and want to have higher quality stuff and things like that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to get better.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to get better.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like Paris is posting now totally on her own.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, I don't approve hardly anything.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I got to count them, including myself.
• 29:52
  Like three of my clients have like a dedicated graphic designer
• 29:56
  or video near
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: shore,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: usually out of Mexico,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: and they're the ones making the best looking content.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it, it is really impressive what they can do.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's what you need,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: like I can hook you up with,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: with the company that I go through,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can give you the guy's name.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: but I think there's more than one,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't make any money off this recommendation,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm not married to it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: But they've certainly worked out for me.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I love working with them.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Great, great, great people.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And also they speak Spanish, which is very much a failing of mine.
• 30:28
  So it's hard for me to review Spanish marketing copy when my
• 30:31
  client's doing Spanish marketing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of a built-in perk.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate you talking with me and taking the time today.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure kind of getting to know you a little bit better.
• 30:41
  And so if you want people to learn more about you,
• 30:45
  where should they reach out to you?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're pretty active on LinkedIn.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook, I'm super active.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Easy enough to find on Google, you know, just wherever.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's good to hear that you're happy with your SEO presence.
• 30:57
  I've always been very happy with mine because there's really
• 31:00
  only one Tiffany Swedensky.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: The other one doesn't spell her name the same way I do.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I have that feather in my cap, so I'm also happy with my SEO presence.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess we'll talk to you soon.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Tiff.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.