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#463: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Brand Story | Empowering Progress: Echelon’s Member-First Approach to Fitness, Loyalty, and Innovation · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Today is Thursday, so it's Brand Stories.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us every Thursday as we dive into how leading brands are developing unique and personalized experiences to deepen customer loyalty.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Health and wellness have emerged as top priority for today's consumers, but the definition has evolved.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Top priority for today's consumers, but the definition has evolved.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: No longer centered on annual gym signups or insipid routines.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Modern wellness emphasizes sustainability, personalization and technology-driven lifestyle change.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Building healthy habits remains challenging, yet there's a clear parallel between customer loyalty programs and fitness.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Both rely on the powerful Q-habit reward loop to drive lasting engagement and behavioral change.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Echelon is flipping the traditional model on its head.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: By harnessing data, ai-driven personalization and a powerful collaboration with Amazon Web Services, echelon delivers immersive fitness experiences tailored to each user's goal.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: The brand's mission is simple help people become the best version of themselves through technology, personalization and progress that drives real results which can lead to that long-term habit formation.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to be joined by John Santo, co-founder and chief product and technology officer at Echelon.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: He's going to discuss how innovative approaches drive connection, consistency and long-term loyalty in the fitness space.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: John, welcome to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: How are you today?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: How are you guys?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Doing Good, doing well.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for taking the time to join us.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: First off, for those who may not be familiar, can you give us a short introduction to Echelon?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I mean Echelon really is.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: We like to say we're a pioneer, right.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: We offer premium fitness equipment that's tech enabled we are.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: We have over a million plus users.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: You know there's about an average 2.6 or about three people per household.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Very strong engagement from our customers.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: We have like over a million classes taken each month and we are in about 5,000 commercial locations and 12,000, over 12,000 retail doors.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So we really built sort of a comprehensive fitness ecosystem that really connects users across home and commercial fitness.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And we really try to do that through value-based hardware.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: And I say value-based hardware and technology is that we're not super high priced but we're affordable for most Americans that want to get into a fitness journey.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And you know we provide all the technological experience with that that goes with that, including AI.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: You know what's led to the success of Echelon.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I mean really for us.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I really say that our success was really based off of it's sort of three principles.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It's accessibility, approachability and affordability, right.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Those are the three principles that we sort of abided by when we started Echelon.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: And I think, from an accessibility standpoint, right, that leads to the technology.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Our content, the fitness is accessible anywhere that there's an internet connection, which is pretty much anywhere in the United States or almost anywhere in the world.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Now, especially with Starlink, you can get it anywhere.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: So we're accessible.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: But not only that.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: We've provided affordable equipment to retailers that can then be sold to customers and they can take it home right away, right, and so that's a really good.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And it's approachable not just in the sense of look, we're in Walmart, right.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Sam's Club, we're in retailers that people are accustomed to going to.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Our instructors are, I don't want to say real people, because everybody's a real person, but they're sort of real in the sense that we're not all about.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: You just have to have a six pack abs, right, where your personal fitness journey is.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: That's where you are.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: You may just want to be able to pick up your grandchild.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: You may want to be able to just play a basketball game with your daughter or son right and not be out of breath.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: That might be your fitness goal and that's okay, and so we're approachable in that sense and that's how our community sort of builds on each other and supports each other.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And we talked about affordability, where we have products that go from $500 all the way up to commercial equipment can be $5,000.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: But still, even at a $5,000 commercial price for a commercial facility, our competitors are selling pieces of equipment for 20 grand.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So we're still a very affordable product that adds high value.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And we're very passionate about our customer.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And when I say our customer, I'm not just talking about Sam's Club, I'm not talking about the commercial facility.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Let's say it's LA Fitness or a gym that we're in or a hotel.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about the end user as a customer.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: What drives them?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: What's driving them to that store?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: What value add needs to be for that specific customer and that demographic in that scenario?
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Value add needs to be for that specific customer and that demographic in that scenario and I think that's really what's helped keep our customers engaged for a long time and it led to a lot of.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Our success is that we've been customer focused?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and there's a couple of follow up questions to that.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: First off, as we talk, I'm coming into this.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fitness guy, love lifting weights full set in my basement.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: What I've noticed, though, is that you talk about $5,000 to $20,000.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: You look at some of the competitors out there maybe French Fitness or Body Solid.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: They're selling at a certain price.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: And then you look at some of like a Rogue or some of the other.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Hey man, a little bit nicer product, right, but that same all-in-one cable machine may go from $3,500 to $8,500.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And it's basically the same machine.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: And you start to see that you know there are a lot of them being contracted in a certain way.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of price gouging in this industry.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Not you at all, right, but I'm saying I've noticed that, as I bought equipment over the last three, four years and upgraded it Like, oh, this is the same on two different websites and on two different websites, and they're completely different prices.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Is that something you see in the industry?
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: We do, we see it, we definitely see it in the industry.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, for us, right, we see it in the industry, but we don't base our pricing off of what other people are doing, right, and so I think for us it's about okay.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Obviously we're a company, we have to make margins because we have to stay in business to provide the service and provide everything we're doing.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But we're not crazy with it and we try to actually work with the gyms and the facilities to come up with products and pricing that works for them, right.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: A lot of times we're building products with buyers.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: They're saying, hey, we need a treadmill at this price and we're going and going, okay, we can provide this, this and this, and we're sort of building it together, right, and that's what true partnership I think is about.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Um, and what really leads us to.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: It kind of almost goes back to the, to the question what was our success?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Or kind of where we're at now is?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: We try to find ways to be true partners with our customers and I think it allows us to be adaptable in an industry where things change quickly.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you remember during COVID, everybody was stuck in the house and home fitness equipment was here, right, and now we're back to at normal levels and you have to be able to really adapt and have those relationships not only with your customers at home, but with your business, to business customers as well right, you have to be able to do that, to move, and I think our adaptability has really led to success because we're able to adapt to some trends in the industry, like hybrid fitness journeys, right, people want the flexibility to sort of work out at home, outside, at the gym, and so, because of the ecosystem and the technology that we built, we're allowed to give somebody sort of a holistic wellness journey where they can go to the gym, they can come home, all of their data is on the same piece of equipment, if they worked out at the gym or not, and we're able to provide the same personalization through AI with that as well, so that that journey is with you everywhere you go, right?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: It's really important for us to be able to offer that for our customers, and that's a lot of what we're pushing towards.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Now is not just solely being locked into our system, but if you want to run outside, we can still help you track that.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's important too, because it's the data that's very important, being able to tell a story, because I think certain people have different fitness goals.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Right, not everyone likes lifting weights, right, not everyone likes running.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So getting people engaged in creating that behavior, that 30, 60, 90 day behavior where it locks in, is difficult.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've tried running hundreds of times.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I just don't like it.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Right, I ride the bike in the morning.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a stationery.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I ride in the morning, read wall street journal, because it's my, it's a habit, right, I, I read with it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: But lifting weights I love doing that, I always have.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: But because then you can see kind of that change.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But some people just don't like that, right, and then, and you have the ability from a technology and the data that really helps them meet their fitness goals.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned too, which I think is very interesting, is, you know, everyone's fitness goal is different and not trying to force something on them.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And it could be just a grandfather who wants to play with his kid playing basketball, right, so he may do a little bit of resistance training to help his knees or help his back.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: So you know, understanding their goals and being able to address them in a day-to-day manner is very powerful 100 so, uh, can you tell us a little bit more about your role with the company?
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: uh, you know how you got into the, the marketing, the technology, uh, into fitness and uh, were there some roles that led up to this?
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: yeah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've always been an entrepreneur, so I've owned my own businesses, uh, pretty much almost my entire career.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: When I got out of school, though, so I went to school for business.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I got out of school, I was in the typical sort of business like sales jobs, right, because when you go to school for marketing, everybody wants you to do sales, right, that's it, and it was okay.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: My first job was actually I was in Manhattan, and it was boiler room man.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: It was just a phone and a bunch of business cards on a desk and you were selling telecommunication services, and I hated it, could not stand it, so I actually I bought myself a computer and I went around.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I moved back to Orlando, which is where we're based now Orlando, florida and I went around and just designed a bunch of logos and went to an ad firm and said, hey look, I need a job.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And they were like look, we only have this $8 an hour internship that you can.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I was like I'll take it, I just want to learn the business, and so, from there, I ended up opening um, I did that for for a while, um, and then I uh, when I was done with that, I had a couple of friends that had owned some marketing firms in town.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: And I called them.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: They said, hey, look, because I always hung out with older people, so you know I say friends.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: They were probably like 15 years older than I was at the time, and so I called them up and said, yeah, I always felt like I could learn from them.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Right, they've been around the block a little bit.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So I called him up and Lou Lantani, who's our CEO right now and the the one of the founders of of Echelon and he said, look, and Lou at the time had a company called Viatech Consumer Products and they built and made products.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And he said, hey, he's hiring.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: So I went to the house and we hit it off.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: He hired me the same day and so I ended up running their entire building, all of of their, their tech, running their marketing department for that company for quite a long time and then branched out, started my own company.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And, lo and behold, one day Lou's doctor told him hey, man, you're just in bad shape, you need to start doing something.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And you know they were selling a fitness bike on qbc at the time called the flex bike yeah and he said, hey, how can we make this better?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: and so he and I were talking and he said, hey, look, maybe, maybe we should do an app.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: He's like you do apps, maybe we could.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: And so we started developing an app for it and, lo and behold, echelon was born.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: So out out of that, that's where Echelon came about, and it's really been like a rocket ship journey from there.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: And then we took on some private equity.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: They bought my company, brought me in as a co-founder and one of the partners in the business, but my side of the business is the tech and the product side, which is the app, and so that's kind of really how that started.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But we really started which is crazy from like an extreme programming methodology.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, we would just build and push it out, get customer feedback quickly and push another, build out and fix the problems, and that's kind of how we rolled everything out until we became sort of an agile organization after some time.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, excellent, when you look at some of the challenges or opportunities you see within the market.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Obviously, kind of some of the economic uncertainty now, tariffs, no tariffs, taxes, no taxes.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: You know what keeps you up at night when you look at some of the challenges and opportunities that you have in front of you going to deal with that side of the business a little more than me, but to me I don't worry about things like that, because you can always make a shift in business right.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Those are sort of simple shifts, and I think tariffs will be a will it be a short-lived solution to an end goal and I don't know that there'll be forever.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: What keeps me up at night is really trying to stay ahead of the technology but sort of maintaining like a genuine connection with our member right.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So, with all of this technological innovation right, with trying to get a balance between the innovation, with trying to get a balance between the innovation, leveraging AI, create personalized experiences, how do we stay human in all of that right?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: How do we keep that connection with our customer where it doesn't just seem transaction-based right?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And so I think one of the things for us is what we've really tried to do and design in our entire tech stack is really keep the instructor and that sort of human element of the training as part of that and try to use the technology to create the bond between the instructor and the customer even further, because we just don't want to lose that human element and that community sense of it.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: You know, any time we lose a member, if we do, and it's very, very few I'm going to say you know, one of the biggest things they miss is the community.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: It's that human connection.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: That's what people miss all the time and that's one of the things that I really want to try to stay true to, even with all of this technology that's around us and all the advancements that we're seeing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned staying ahead of technology.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty significant challenge for most people in customer loyalty, customer experience, right.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: We have a growing brand community, we meet, talk about different challenges and opportunities, but you know, understanding this technology doesn't work together, does not work together.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It was promised to do this.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: It does Y versus X, so it can be a big challenge.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: So you know, how do you keep ahead in the technology space from a customer experience perspective, but also from a?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: You know, an offering to the customers that are going to keep them engaged because everything is changing right.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You have, you know, the OL1 or OLP inhibitors, right.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: The olxin pigs and others that are promising health, but still holistically America is still not healthy right, and you obviously are offering a, are an author of a great technology that can create very unique engagement.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So how do you keep up with both sides of that technology curve?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I think, right, it's almost a flip right.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I think staying ahead of the technology curves means staying in front of and on top of what your customers actually want.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: As far as that goes, right, I don't necessarily have to have, let's say, you know, tesla has these robots now that can do these crazy things right, I don't necessarily have to have the craziest latest technology.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I have to have what's best for my customer and to me, I think that's what's staying ahead of the technology curve is keeping that human element.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: And how does that human element apply to what I implement within my tech stack or in my product?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Right, the customer needs to drive.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: What I'm putting out there and I think that's a really important thing is not to put the tech first, but put your customer first and let their needs and what they need as far as you know what's keeping retention and engagement let that lead what you implement tech-wise.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: When you look at customer loyalty, that's another very important topic, obviously, since we're the trade association for it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: When you look at customer loyalty, what does it mean to you and to Echelon?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question, and I think for me, it's just what I said before.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: How do I follow a member-centered approach, right?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So, rather than chasing every new technology trend, like we were saying before, it really means focusing on what is my customer need?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: What do they really want?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: How do I keep members engaged on their fitness journey over a long period of time?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: It's not just about, right, oh, they got 100 rides.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Here you go.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Here's a coupon code.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: What's actually going to be meaningful for them over the long journey of their fitness career?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Because it is a career, right?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: If it's a lifetime thing that you're doing as far as fitness goes, you're going to come in and start as a beginner.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: You're going to be an intermediate.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You may fall back a little bit.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: You're going to have days where you don't want to do it.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: How does everything that I'm providing to a customer help them achieve their ultimate goal and stay with it for life?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That's really the question you have to ask, and it's going to be very different for every single business, right?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Because your customer is different.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: They come to your brand for different things, and so I think true loyalty really comes when members actually achieve their goals, and it seems effortless, and they do it in a way when I say effortless, I mean they're doing it in a way that's really genuine, where they feel that everything I add, every app update, every new technology improvement is helping support what they're doing and trying to help them reach their goal.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: And how does the echelon reward zone fit into your vision for customer loyalty within the organization?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's really designed to help celebrate members and their engagement, right.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: So really to go beyond rewards and badges, right, we want to acknowledge members and the things that they're doing and the things that they're doing.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: But when we're talking about a fitness journey and consistent progress, milestone achievements and community participation, it should really feel sort of mutual right and members are investing their time and energy with us.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And so that loyalty program has to provide additional value, not just recognition, right?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Loyalty program is not just about badges.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: But what additional value?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Through a loyalty we want to connect them to that brand, right?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: We don't want to just say, oh, here's a list of everything that you, that you can get in your reward program.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Let's say, maybe it's a truly personalized sort of connection based on their efforts, based on their goals and based on what they're trying to do.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So to me, that that's what I think true loyalty and true sort of like a reward zone for a customer could look like.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about personalization, another very relevant topic within the customer loyalty industry right now, making sure that it's relevant, make sure it's timely, right channel, right place, right product.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So you've touched on a number of those things.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: The data you have obviously is very important, is very important.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: You know what does personalization mean to Echelon and how do that?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: The personalized workouts that you offer kind of drive some of that personalization strategy?
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: So basically we're talking about customers now, right.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So we really want to try to truly understand what their goal is and really what their unique journey is.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: It's not just about recommending content on, like past paper oh, let's say, you took a bunch of country music classes or you take 20 minute running classes, power classes, every day.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: It's not just about recommending that class because you've taken those before and you're most likely to take them.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: It's not just about recommending that class because you've taken those before and you're most likely to take them.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's really about understanding each member's goals and preferences and their capabilities, right, so that you deliver an experience that evolves with them.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So we really want to go beyond the surface level to create an experience that really feels tailored to that customer.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: It could include adapting workout intensity, progression rates, mixing different modalities.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So if you have multiple pieces of equipment, maybe now there's a circuit training that you get recognized, right.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes on a treadmill, 10 minutes on a bike, you know another 10 minutes here.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Now you did 30 minutes of cardio, but it seemed fast, moving and it's entertaining, because that's what we know you're like and that's the right mix that's best for each member.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I think you know how our system works.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: What we do is we sort of go through a questionnaire, sort of an onboarding, so we can sort of get a baseline need of where the customer is like, what their goals are, how they like to work out, and then we basically analyze that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: We go back to the current data that we have in the system and measure it against that data so that we can give a good recommendation, and then we continuously refine it, right.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: So we look at what they're doing, we look at what their goals are and we even use like contextual factors, right, like available time that they can work out, equipment access, whether they're working out at home or in a gym, right.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So these are the things we try to play with so that we can really hone in on what the member actually wants and that it seems like it's true personalization.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: And there's a couple things that I think differentiate us from what's currently out there.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I think the widespread ecosystem that we have right is something that we do.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: We don't focus on a single piece of equipment.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: So, uh, if you're a commercial facility, we have an app that a user can go into, put in their goals and based on the equipment in that facility, whether it's Echelon equipment or not, it will recommend a workout for you in that gym and you will move through that facility and do a workout.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: The data will save and then go back to our backend and then when you go back home, right, we'll take that information and then maybe recommend a treadmill workout if you're working out at home that day.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: So it's really a unique sort of ecosystem to do that.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: So there's cross-environmental integration as well.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: And then, like I mentioned before, we really have instructor-informed AI.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So our instructors actually build out plans and they're looking at prompts and we're working with them every day to sort of update this and change this based on the recommendation.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Is this a good program, is this not?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: And so there's really still the human element behind it that's driving and helping the engine learn and continue to make adjustments based off customer needs and goals.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, and you recently announced a partnership with AWS, amazon Web Services, to launch a generative AI power fitness platform that delivers personalized workouts, personalized experiences.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: What motivated Echelon to partner with AWS and what are you seeing so far?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, I think we've had an amazing partnership with AWS from the beginning.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: We've been cloud-based since day one.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: They have been an amazing partner and through our relationship with them, we've I've spoken to them a number of times.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: We've talked about our goals and what we want to do and how we can do it together.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Right, because, you know, if you've noticed, here sort of the theme is like how Echelon is doing things together with other companies in order to make the biggest impact in the industry.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It's not just about, hey, we're just doing this in a bubble and pushing this out there.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Right, how do we work with the best and brightest in pushing this out there?
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Right, how do we work with the best and brightest?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: You know, how do we use Amazon's bedrock, which is, you know, api driven based models.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So now we can take this, these models, and even place them in other people's apps.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So if people want to use our AI technology, we can help build it within their app and use the technology and the models that we built for them to use the same technology.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So it's how do we grow and how do technology and the models that we've built for them to use the same technology?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So it's how do we grow and how do we make the biggest impact in the industry, and with a partner like AWS, that's possible.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Some of the rates just to throw some numbers out here we're seeing 86% workout plan completion with personalized plans as opposed to 78% just standalone workouts.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty big increase when you're talking about millions of workouts.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: That's a lot.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: From the research we've done with Amazon and what we're seeing, it looks like about a 7% improvement in retention rates, which is amazing Engagement with our.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So we have a virtual world that we've created.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's called Echelon Worlds.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: It's a 3D avatar and you can go through and create your own avatar and you ride through 3D worlds.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: There's even instructor-led ones where you can compete against instructors on it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Anyway, for those workouts we're seeing on Treadmills 23% long standard programming.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So members that are receiving personalized recommendations 34% more likely to try new workout modalities.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: So right, if they're in great experience on a treadmill, they're more likely to go and buy a bike, and so partnering with a company like AWS really allowed us to move quickly, because Amazon Bedrock is an amazing tool for personalized plans and, being that it's API driven, allows us a lot of flexibility, so it just seemed like a no brainer for us to do that.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, what's the next big thing for customer loyalty, customer experience?
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Let me add something real quick too.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Let me add something real quick too.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I think one of the great things, too, about Amazon and what led us to that, is really it's allowed us to balance capability and cost.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Ok, right, the way we've designed this and how we can implement this tool and I don't want to give away too much but it's really been super cost effective to allow us to maximize the ROI on it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: So we have high capable AI models at a very low cost and a lot of it's per usage, so if you're not using it, you don't pay for it, and so it's a really great way for companies to implement AI models.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Even, like I said before, if we can apply this into another company's application, the cost is still low for the both of us to run this, and so it's really a great way to sort of change the industry and allow this technology to be used in mass.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, excellent.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like the partnership is symbiotic for both brands.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: So that's good to hear, because that can be a big challenge for brands making sure and it's more of a technology partnership when you get into the brand-to-brand partnerships that can be a big challenge for many brands today to making sure that the value proposition is aligned for both brands.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: So what's the next big thing for customer?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: loyalty, customer experience for Echelon.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: The next big thing, I think the next big thing for us is really seeing where the AI technology takes us.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I think, when you're looking at developing technology, how far can we go with real-time coaching capabilities and really giving users that feedback to really help drive them through AI and through moving beyond programmatic recommendations to almost provide in-the-moment recommendations of intensity and technique?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really big thing that we want.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: We really want to help users sort of hit their best and that's up to them to decide, but they can put that in the system and then the system will guide them.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Also sort of creating, I think, a stronger integration between consumer and commercial applications.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like we were talking about sort of that hybrid model.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But how do we right fitness that follows you really is what we want to do.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: So no matter where you are, this same ecosystem is following you.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: That's why I was talking a little bit earlier about the APIs.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: We can implement this into other tech stacks and we're really trying to be more of sort of a SaaS organization system as opposed to just products.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And the third part of that, I think, is really creating sort of immersive experiences, and when I mean immersive experiences.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: It doesn't just respond to performance metrics, but how you feel.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Treadmills that adjust, treadmills that have different feels, maybe ones that can mimic the road when you're running outside on the road.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: A lot of what we see with customers today are, you know, a lot of people in the Northeast or the Northwest, right it gets cold, so they're inside during the winter months and then outside they're running.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: What if you could give them something that could get that same experience all year round?
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And I think that's something that's really important for us and sort of what I see, the next couple of big things, of what we'll sort of focus on as a company.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned that too.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I have two daughters who are different athletes right now.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: One is on her way but one was not eating enough.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Literally just last Saturday we had to go through see a nutritionist right, look at recovery.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: She has a pretty good job recovery, but not eating enough was it was a big piece for her and they did some imaging with uh ultrasound to look at her, her, her on her thighs or quads and her energy capacity in her.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Both of her quads was very, very low and it's interesting.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I think there's such a big piece around uh health and wellness and fitness on recovery where many people don't get into that Right.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: So, knowing where your body is, you know, having applications like a whoop or something, or if you have these as well, that show, oh, maybe you shouldn't work out today.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe you take the day off Right, maybe your knees are bothering you because people, that's where people get overuse.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Injuries are something I'm familiar with right now and I think people who start off in fitness, who may be a little obese or out of shape, try to push it too hard.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they get hurt and they're like all right, I'm done with this.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So I'm glad you mentioned that, because a couple of things there.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: So we, um, we are, we acquired a company, um, a cold plunge company, so we're implementing recovery into our platform now.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be part of the training now.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: And one of the pieces you mentioned which I really like, because I mentioned earlier about a holistic sort of health journey, and holistic is that right, I need recovery.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not sleeping, so we're taking information from wearables that's going to apply to your workout.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe, if you didn't sleep, we just change it.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, don't do this 45-minute class today.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Why don't you do this guided meditation?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Let's do this, we'll get you moving, but let's change this.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really important piece and the way we've implemented our.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: We have a chatbot, an AI echelon trainer within our AI program, and so, let's say, I work out shoulders and, man, my shoulder is hurting.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I did something wrong.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I pinched it, right, I was too wide on a bench press and it was too heavy and I pinched it, and so I need to give a couple of days rest.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I can actually go in there and say, hey, look, my shoulder hurts today.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Can you adjust all upper body workouts and get rid of any arm movements and the system will then change it and take it out for you.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: So that is a really important piece to this and really I think adds to sort of customer loyalty and the personalization journey, because I think those two go hand in hand right.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: When customers feel like you care about them, they're going to be more loyal.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's a great.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: The recovery is a big piece.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, and also for those who don't know, if they're lifting weights right, Like my wife uh was a swam in Kentucky, uh, solid athlete, but she doesn't like lifting Right.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: But she's realizing that, uh, doing cardio running, it's not going to change your body when you get a certain age, right, you have to lift.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Resistance training, you have to do it and you have to do a lot of it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: You can keep your muscle, but if you don't lose your muscle right, it impacts the blood flow around your bones so your bones get brittle.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: It increases your uh, you know your what's that?
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Metabolic rate, your stable meta basal rate.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: It impacts so many things from a fitness perspective that people.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: But then if they don't know how to lift right, if they're lifting getting hurt, they're like, oh, like for me, like lifting my whole life like uh, do it, like, ah, do it like this.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I show them time and then you come back down their form's wrong.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: No, you got to do it this way, right, or you're going to get hurt.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I think so many people get hurt that I hear from and they're like, oh, I'm just done, but the recovery piece is a big piece of that right and that's an amazing.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Like all right, I haven't done 105 in a while I'm going to do this right.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I got them up three times.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I got a second-degree tear, a sprain, in my elbow, and it took like three, four months to heal and now I wear double wraps all the time.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: But it's still things that most people don't know right, Because your joints take such a pounding 100% Running or biking, whatever you got to give yourself that recovery time.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Well, and as you get older, your joints can only take so much more.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So you know you're 25, you want to bench press 225, 300 pounds go right ahead.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But if you took a break from lifting for a while and you haven't done it, and now you're 38, you're 40 years old, you can't go right back and do that.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: You have to.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: You can ease up to it and get there again.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: You just have to ease up and take the ego out of it and work your way back up.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And I think that's an important part of this piece too is getting people at their right level at the right time and helping them work up to where they need to work up to.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And then that recovery piece and nutrition is super important, yeah, and when they start seeing games, people get involved.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: But I think the ego is a big thing, right, especially, you know, again, I'm pretty consistent the whole time, but it's my first two with the school kicked into a whole nother level again, but over Christmas, like I can do that way.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: But you know, and now just you start reading, and the older you get this, the elasticity in all your joints, with people have shoulders, right, it's the joint, it's the tendons, it's the ligaments that have the issue.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: So, uh, but no, it's cool.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: This has been a been a great discussion.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, last question yeah, um, what are two or three things you're most proud of?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: uh, you know about your program most proud of all, right, so I I think one of the big things is really that we've been able to sort of democratize fitness and provide a really high value product and premium experiences at excellent price points to a large amount of people.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Because for me, it's not just about this.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I don't obviously I want Echelon to be successful, but the mission right, I want people to be healthy.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: It stinks when you're not healthy and you don't feel good.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Right, you can't do things with your children, you can't do certain things, or, you know, maybe you're more irritable, right, your kids ask you for something like oh, I got to get up again, but if you feel good, it doesn't matter.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: And so that's really the mission here is to really make people feel better.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: It's not about getting abs, it's not about the.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: It's about feeling better and to do the everyday thing, things that you want.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Think, secondly, like our balance between and the approach of uh technology integration.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, we did leverage ai and machine learning to enhance, but we didn't lose that human element of it.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: It still feels human, the way you've implemented it feels fun, and I think it really it's.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: It's important to continue to keep the instructor element in that, in that human element when you're providing technology solutions.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Finally, I think, right, we're really having an impact on our members' lives.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I mean ultimately.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at, I mean I've got tons of members.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I got members that send me Christmas cards and stuff just because they're you know they were.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: There is a member that was 400 pounds and now is 180 pounds, and they attribute that it's because of Echelon and the instructors as to why they were able to stay with the program and consistent.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Now they didn't lose it in 30 days.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like a 90 day, but they stuck with it and it provided meaningful results to them.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And I think that's ultimately what this is really all about.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Right, it's about people living a healthier, more active life, and that doesn't mean they're David Goggins-ing it every day.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: They're not running 25 miles a day.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: It's where they are at that point in their life and what more active means to them, specifically for them in their life?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: No, you're 100% right.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: So, no, this has been a great, great, great interview.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I talk fitness all day.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: It's a big piece of mine, especially with what I've been doing the last month on the nutrition side, but well, that's great.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: So now we have our wonderful quick fire questions.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: We like to keep the responses to a word or two or a short phrase.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: So the first one what is your favorite word?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Discipline?
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, what?
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: What's your least favorite word?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: It's actually two words, but it's.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: What excites you?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Everything we've been talking about here building something that really somebody is actually using, that actually makes a change, right there's.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: There's something that's a long lasting result that impacts multiple people in an industry.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: And what do you find tiresome Rehashing old things?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I just like to move forward.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Just, we are where we are.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Let's move forward, right.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Is there a book that you have read, or read periodically, that you'd like to recommend to colleagues?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Well, so there's two Right.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: So if you're talking business, I like the book Hooked.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: That book is really good, but personally I like Anthem by A A Rand.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: It's one of my favorites.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, I have not read either of them.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I'm an avid reader, but I'll have to check out the Hook.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're good, they're great.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Hooked is really great, like how to keep people in a product and psychological behavior and how to build great products for people that they really enjoy.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Anthem by Anne Rand is another good one.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Check it out.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: It's a good book.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not an Anne Rand fan.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: It's kind of hard for me to follow, but I love it.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not either.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: It's one of her shorter books.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's about this thick as opposed to this thick.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: So it it's a pretty quick read and I thought it was entertaining, okay, only one I've read by her Okay, what profession, other than the one you currently are in, would you maybe like to attempt?
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: F1 driver.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, what do you enjoy doing that you often don't get the time to do?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Paint.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Wow Okay.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Paint is in a house or paint is in a portrait?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: No, paint is in artwork paintings who, okay, paint as in a house or paint as in a portrait.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: No, paint as in, like artwork paintings who inspired you to become the person you are today.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: My parents.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I have to say what do you typically think about at the end of the day?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: When I'm tucking my kids in and I'm at my house.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Just how lucky I am.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, and how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Loyal.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Love that Well, john.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Friends and family loyal that's awesome.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Love that well, john.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: It was a pleasure speaking with you and getting to know more about echelon also about you personally.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: It was a very solid interview.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Fitness and health are two big things that, uh, more and more people should be focused on.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Again, great interview and thanks for the time yeah, thank you, I appreciate it, loved it.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, feeding me on again.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Happy to do it, we'll talk soon perfect and thank you everyone for taking the time to join us on the Lead to Customer Loyalty series on the brand story side.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Make sure you join us every Thursday and until then, have a wonderful day.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: See you guys.