Latest / Libido Lounge / Sex After Mastectomy: How Amy Rowan Reclaimed Her Body Confidence and Libido

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Sex After Mastectomy: How Amy Rowan Reclaimed Her Body Confidence and Libido · Libido Lounge

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  Welcome to the libido lounge where we focus on all things love, lust, and libido.
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  We believe that fabulous sex is important to health as exercise and good food.
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  Everybody, welcome back to another episode on the libido lounge.
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  I'm your host libido expert, doctor Diane Mueller.
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  I'm thrilled to have Amy Rowan, the suburban sexologist, a sex and intimacy coach here with
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  me today.
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  Thank you so much for joining me, Amy.
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  Thank you so much for having me here, doctor Diane.
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  I'm so excited to be speaking with you, and, just really excited to be chatting with you and
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  your audience today.
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  Yeah.
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  It's really gonna be a good topic.
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  You know, it's like what we were talking about offline, this need for this topic of talking
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  about what happens post mastectomy as far as libido and sex and our relationships and, you
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  know, even things like when I've talked to women around having mastectomies, it's like
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  this this level of, like, reclaiming ourselves as women and our confidence and everything
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  that's connected there.
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  So can you start with just, like, telling us a little bit about, like, what that process was
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  for you and how it impacted your relationships and your libido and your sex sexuality as well
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  as how that was as far as beginning to heal from from the double mastectomy.
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
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  Well, I was diagnosed at age 38.
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  So, you know, sort of on the younger side and, you know, there's no family history.
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  So, I mean, I don't think, you know, I think whenever you get diagnosed with cancer, it's
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  always a shock.
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  But, you know, it certainly came out of left field.
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  And, and I remember, you know, when I learned that I was going to be having a double
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  mastectomy, you know, going online like we all do, doing quote unquote research.
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  And I was trying to find, like, what what is sex going to be like?
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  Like, what am I going to look like?
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  Am I going to feel?
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  You know, I just had so many different questions, and and I couldn't really find any
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  information about that.
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  And and so it was just sort of this big blank space of, like, what is this gonna impact my
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  relationship?
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  Like, what am I gonna look like?
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  I didn't even know what I was gonna look like when I woke up, you know, from the mastectomy.
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  And, you know, and and, you know, then you wake up and your body is completely different and
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  you're covered in scars.
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  And, you know, a large part of what makes you feel like a woman or how you've defined
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  yourself as a woman all these years is is very different and gone.
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  And, you know, I mean, it was a shock, you know, understandably so.
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  And so it was just sort of trying to figure out what, who am I now?
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  Like, what does this mean for me?
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  So what was that process then?
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  So so you wake up, you're like, oh my goodness.
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  What like, how am I defined as a woman?
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  Like, what does this mean?
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  What was that process?
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  Like, what did you do from a standpoint then of almost reclaiming your, you know, your
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  femininity in your new body?
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  How was that process for you?
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  Well, you know, it's really funny.
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  And and some people and maybe I was crazy.
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  I don't know.
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  Like, I think what was very important for me, and this is I mean, this is kind of personal,
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  but we're here on the libido lounge.
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  Right?
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  That's what we do.
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  Was I needed to know that my body still worked.
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  That's how I defined it in my head.
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  Like, I just I was like, am I still going to be able to experience pleasure?
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  Like, what's that gonna look like?
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  You know?
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  Am I gonna be stuck in my head?
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  All these different things.
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  And so, you know, two weeks after two two weeks after my double mastectomy and I had tram
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  reconstruction, which is a pretty, you know, serious invasive reconstruction, I looked at my
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  husband and I was like, let's get some pillows and figure this out.
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  And I just really wanted to have sex because I just needed to know, like, what my body could
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  do.
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  And what I don't think I realized I was doing at that point, but I'm glad that I did, was I
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  kind of that that elephant that could have started growing in the room at that point, I
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  kind of kicked it out because I was just like, I'm gonna see what's happening.
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  I'm going to, you know, it's gonna go slowly.
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  I'm wearing still wearing all of these weird, you know, garments and stuff like that.
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  But I just I think and I think that was a big step in sort of reclaiming or stepping back
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  into myself as as a woman and as a sexual being of just like, okay, I'm not gonna let this
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  define me.
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  Like, I don't have nipples anymore.
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  I don't have any of these things, but I want to, you know, just see how things are.
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  And I think that also then sort of bridged a gap for my husband because, of course, you
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  know, he's taking care of me, and there's caregiver.
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  You know, there's so so many different dynamics that happen in there of just the caregiver.
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  And, of course, he didn't wanna push me or pressure me or or anything of that nature.
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  But me approaching him and saying, look.
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  Let's just try this.
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  I don't know what's gonna happen.
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  I don't know I don't know if we're gonna be able to finish or start or if it's gonna feel
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  good or if I'm gonna start crying in the middle of it, which I probably did.
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  But, but, you know, going through that, I was like, Okay.
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  Like, yeah, things are different.
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  But different isn't bad and different isn't insurmountable.
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  And so and I think that was, like, a really important, you know, step for me.
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  I really appreciate that angle of just calling it the elephant in the room and just saying,
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  hey.
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  This is happening, and we're gonna just do this anyways.
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  And it's kind of I mean, it's it's a different version, very different version, but has a
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  level of, analogy to, I feel like, couples that have not had sex in a long time.
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  And it's like, okay, well, this might be awkward.
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  This I don't know what's gonna happen.
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  It might feel weird.
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  Maybe there's this.
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  Maybe there's that.
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  Maybe there's stories.
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  Maybe I'm going to cry, but we're just going to rip the Band Aid off and just go for it.
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  And so then what did you find that when you were actually reengaging, did you find that
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  from a sexual standpoint that your libido took a little while to turn back on?
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  How did that go as far as, like, communicating with your partner?
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  You know, I again, I think since we ripped the Band Aid off, that helped with that.
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  But and but, you know, there's other thing was we were forced to because there's areas that he
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  couldn't or he was afraid to touch me, you know, because, scars and things that were
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  healing and things like that.
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  You know, at some point, I remember noticing that, you know, there's areas in my body that
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  are still numb.
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  It's been seven years.
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  And, you know, I was like, honey, I want you to just run your hand through.
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  I was like, I wanna see where I have feeling and where I don't and where things feel
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  different.
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  And, and just acknowledging that and just sort of having those conversations, I think, was
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  really important in those moments.
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  And, you know, I think for me personally, I, you know, I've always been a higher libido kind
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  of person.
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  And also and sex is my stress.
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  I know a lot of people when they're stressed out, their their libido crashes.
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  And for me, sex is like a stress relief.
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  And so in the times that I'm, like, the most stressed out, there's the worst things that are
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  going on.
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  Like that, I like, that hormone flood that comes through, the oxytocin and all that stuff,
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  like, that is, like, my calming place.
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  And so I think for me, it almost became like a tool of healing, you know, on many levels of
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  just maintaining the bond with my husband, of regaining my femininity and myself as a woman
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  and know, and recognizing, okay.
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  So, I mean, I don't have nipples and might look kind of weird in the mirror now, but that's
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  okay.
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  Like, I'm still a sexual being.
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  I'm still a woman.
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  That that's not like, it didn't take that away from me.
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  And it sounds like then actually engaging with your husband and going through the actions of
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  sex and being touched and exploring what's numb and what's not like that.
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  If I'm hearing you correctly, it's something like that actually contributed to like.
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  Yeah, like, yes, I'm still this woman.
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  I'm still beautiful and and really kind of reconfirming that level of confidence.
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  Is that true?
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  Yeah, absolutely.
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  And I think even I think it builds that confidence, you know, even more.
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  You know, I I mean, I think like like many, many women, you know, I, you know, before and
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  certainly during and through this, you know, you have all sorts of body confidence issues.
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  I mean, and I still do, like, that hasn't necessarily changed.
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  But, but yes.
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  But just being willing to say, you know what?
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  Rather than ignoring it because I think things that are uncomfortable, you know, it's
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  sometimes it's just easier to sweep them under the rug and just pretend like that they aren't
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  happening.
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  And then it grows and grows and grows into something bigger than it needs to be.
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  And so, you know, just confronting it and talking about it and and just taking the power
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  back from it and saying, you know what?
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  No.
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  I'm not gonna let this take away something that is pleasurable, and it feels amazing.
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  And it's an important part of my marriage, an important part of my relationship, an important
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  part of just it just feels good.
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  Like, I want this, and I'm gonna keep this because I'm not gonna let this take it in.
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  Like, I lost my boobs.
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  So, you know, that's it.
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  That's all that you get to take from me on that.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's really it's really inspiring.
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  And I wanna talk also in the in the way you're explaining this of even just kind of not
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  shoveling things under the rug and directly communicating with your husband.
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  Let's talk a little bit more about that because while I know there's some of our listeners that
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  have had double mastectomies or other types of changes in their body, regardless, the
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  communications and strategies I'm sure you experience and explore during the stressful
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  time applies to, you know, to people regardless of whether or not they've gone through those
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  types of situations.
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  So can you tell us about, like, from a strategy, you know, standpoint around
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  communicating with your husband during this this time of which could be very stressful and
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  could for some couples really drive them apart.
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  Were there like specific strategies that you really found like, oh, we did x y z beyond not
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  shoving things under the rug?
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  That was really helpful.
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  You know, I think what's really important for for people to hear, for members and a couple to
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  hear in a situation like this or otherwise is that, you know, that that they're still being
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  seen.
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  And I think, you know, when you have a dynamic, again, if you've got a caregiver, you know,
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  person recovering dynamic or other things, one person may not want to say something like, hey,
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  honey, you know, I think you look beautiful today because they're afraid maybe that that
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  person is going to interpret that as, oh, well, my partner wants to have sex and how dare he,
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  you know.
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  And it may not be that at all.
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  But, you know, just acknowledging and saying but I think the other thing that people need to
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  hear is and certainly when you're questioning your body confidence and, you know, dealing
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  with big changes in your body, you need to hear, like, you know, I'm I'm thinking about
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  you today.
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  Like, you look you look beautiful.
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  Is it okay if I is it okay if I give you a kiss?
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  Because I just like to give you a kiss.
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  And maybe asking because if that person is in a fragile emotional state, which certainly
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  happens, but just having those overtures because I think people can have a tendency to
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  retreat into opposite corners of the room, of the house, just out of sheer fear of of
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  potentially hurting somebody.
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  And then if one person is drawing away to protect the other person, that other person is
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  starting to feel this distance that the first person isn't necessarily intending.
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  And then all of a sudden, it's just growing and growing.
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  And so I think it's just and I also always I think another thing that we did was, you know,
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  like, we weren't able to hug for a very long time because, you know, it hurt.
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  And so just finding other ways of touch, offering touch, you know, whether it's,
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  interlocking legs across the couch, like maybe you can't be really close to each other, but
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  you can still find ways of offering touch, of holding hands and things like that.
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  Nonsexual, but just, you know, physical intimacy because, again, oxytocin and all the
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  good hormones, all that good stuff.
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  So just finding that ways to meet those ways to maintain, just affection and intimacy are
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  really important.
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  You know, if because, you know, certainly people are going to extended treatment too.
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  I'm grateful I didn't have to go through chemo and radiation, but, you know, that may be off
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  the table.
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  It may have to be off the table.
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  But there's certainly ways of maintaining that physical intimacy, outside of sexual intimacy.
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  And then when it can come back on the table, it's gonna be easier if you, you know, aren't
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  feeling quite so separate.
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  Then how much of that so I love everything you're saying.
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  I'm curious with, like, how much of that were you guys actually, say, actively planning that?
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  Meaning, like, oh, as soon as you realize, like, oh, wow, honey, I can't hug.
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  We can't hug because it hurts.
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  How much time did you actually spend, like, dialoguing and how much was that a part around?
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  Like, oh, we need to do x y z and strategize around how we can still get touch.
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  Like, did you guys have active communication around the strategy or did you guys just
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  naturally figure that out just kind of by trial and error?
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  I'd say it's probably more of natural figuring it out.
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  You know, we're I mean, we have always been a fairly affectionate couple.
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  We're just an affectionate family.
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  You know, I think maybe the conscious part of it that I remember thinking because my children
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  at the time were three, six and nine and, you know, a three year old, how do you actually do
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  a three year old that you can't hug mommy?
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  And, and that was one of the ones where, you know, I remember speaking to somebody and she
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  said, you know, teach him how to do a leg hug.
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  And that was it.
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  Like, I was like, okay, honey, we can do a leg hug.
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  Like and, you know, he was and he still is just incredibly active.
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  Like teaching him not to climb on me was very, very, very difficult.
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  And of course, it broke my heart because all I wanted to do was hug my child.
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  So, you know, we were doing leg hugs.
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  And, and so I think that was a little bit where that conscious communication came in around how
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  can I continue to show affection, you know, to my children too in a way that they can
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  understand?
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  But then that also brought in, just those ideas into our relationship as well.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And I and I ask because I'm curious too for our listeners, like, is there anything that you
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  would recommend in going, you know, and like with a double mastectomy, but also just with
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  stress in general and thinking about libido around like, hey, these are a few top things
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  from a communication standpoint that you wanna make sure you have as part of that foundation
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  of keeping things, you know, hot, of keeping things connected, of keeping that relationship
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  strong?
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  Are there any like foundational principles that you have in that communication sphere at all?
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  You know, I think just like asking the question, you know, and and if you aren't sure
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  if you're like, I want like, honey, I really like I would like to I want to touch you.
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  I want to hug you.
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  You know, how how can I do that in a way that feels good for you?
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  Like, just ask the question.
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  I think some people are so afraid of asking the wrong question that they just don't ask
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  anything at all when really that's the wrong thing is not saying anything.
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  So I would say that if you aren't sure what to do, then say, you know what?
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  I'm I'm really not sure what to do right now.
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  I'm not sure how to say this, but I love you and I care about you.
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  And, you know, I would love to hold your hand right now.
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  You know, is that okay with you?
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  And if the person and if the person is not having a day where maybe they want to have
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  their handheld, just say, you know, sweetie, I'm not up for that right now.
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  Why don't you check-in with me, you know, in a few hours because I'm really tired.
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  I'm gonna go take a nap, you know?
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  And so it's not a no.
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  It's not a leave me alone.
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  It's a maybe not this this isn't the right time, but check-in with me x y z.
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  And then that's also leaving that door open and avoiding that rejection.
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  Yeah.
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  That's the thing that's really those are really important points around, like, asking
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  permission and allowing that and then, you know, leaving like you said, leaving that door
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  open so that we still have the ability to say no without help having that person's ego, you
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  know, be heard of like, oh, I'm reaching out and now my hand is, like, left without a
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  response.
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  It's like, no, I'm still responding.
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  I'm just gonna respond and let you know when we when I can still help you meet that need.
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  So it's it's really beautiful.
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  And anything else before we wrap up our time today that you want to make sure that we say
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  that we didn't say that you definitely want to get across in our in our conversation today?
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  You know, I just want to say that don't, you know, don't be afraid.
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  Don't be afraid.
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  I don't know what's going on here.
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  I don't know what this is gonna look like, but I want to walk this journey with you.
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  Something as as devastating and as scary as, you know, mastectomy, different types of
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  cancer.
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  I mean, it is it is going to change your life, but that doesn't mean that you can't still have
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  satisfying, wonderful, pleasurable intimacy.
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  It may look different than it did before, and it may look different in more positive ways
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  than you can ever imagine.
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  Sometimes difference forces creativity, and that's when things get really fun.
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  So just know that if it's something that you want to maintain in your life, it's absolutely
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  possible.
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  There's always hope.
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  And, you know, really the most important thing to do is just reach out to the person with you
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  and just tell them you love them and you want to figure it out.
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  Love it.
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  Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
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  I know you have a couple of gifts for our audience.
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  Can you tell us about those?
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  We'll have everything as far as how to get a hold of you in our show notes here.
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  But if there's anything you want to say as far as that or your, you know, your gifts, I would
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  love to hear it.
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
• 18:21
  I've got, two free gifts available.
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  So my first is my five tips for sexy scheduled sex, which I'm a big advocate for, especially
• 18:29
  for busy couples.
• 18:31
  You've got kids, things like that.
• 18:33
  It's just a really fun way of spicing that up.
• 18:36
  And then I also have a workbook on regaining intimacy after mastectomy or major surgery.
• 18:44
  So please go ahead and download those.
• 18:47
  And, I hope that they can really help you out.
• 18:50
  Amazing.
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  Well, thank you so much for your time today.
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  I love this conversation.
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  I know this is going to help so many people.
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  So really appreciate you spending time with me again today.
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  Thank you so much, doctor Diane, and thank you to everyone in the audience.
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  I wanna commend you for being here and listening and learning.
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  To wrap up everybody, just as a reminder, this is the year where we are taking all of our best
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  So basically the guests that you rate and you download, and we're tracking all the downloaded
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  episodes and we're tracking all the shares and all that.
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  And whoever has the most downloads and shares, we're gonna invite back at the end of the year
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  so we can have a longer deep dive.
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  So make sure you share this, make sure you download this, make sure you don't keep us a
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  secret and tell your friends about us because that will help us get Amy back for a even
• 19:38
  bigger conversation in the future.
• 19:41
  And, again, as always, this is doctor Diane reminding you to stay classy, stay sexy, and
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  always be a little badassy.
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  See you next time.
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  Thank you for listening to
• 19:53
  the libido lounge.
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  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.