Latest / MaxValue Podcast / The Talent Crisis No One is Talking About ft. Suzi Potts

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The Talent Crisis No One is Talking About ft. Suzi Potts · MaxValue Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: What got you into the into the field?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_04: How did how did you evolve into the business advisor you are today?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was beginning to notice some of the chinks in our armor from a talent perspective because I was dealing with the day-to-day manager who's like, this person's not effective, Susie.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't this person's not working.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, something about our model is not working.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this big project.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to follow up with ownership on it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I need something good, and I want to do something that no one else is doing.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: That must have been much cheaper than several consultants, at least, right?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make sure that we're measuring the right things that matter for this specific leadership philosophy?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: At the end of the day, we've fractionalized all sorts of very specialized professional services.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: How are we planning for that financially?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: How are we planning for that to help the person that's gonna now lead the team?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to Max Value, the show for business owners and their trusted advisors looking to maximize their value with business valuation exit planning, strategy, and maybe even a deeper understanding of the psychology of business.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Ben Towne.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: And today, we are joined by our guest, Dr.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Susie Potts, a doctor of industrial and organizational psychology.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the show.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nice to see you.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's great to have you here.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I gave it a very, very fancy title, What You Do, the right title, the official term, industrial and organizational psychology.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: But what does that mean for the rest of us?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it creates a lot of confusion.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially, in a nutshell, it's a business psychologist.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what I've studied is human behavior in the workplace.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the same way you have a therapist or a psychotherapist, and they coach you through things that happen in life, I coach you through things that happen in work.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: Perfect.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we we could all use that, uh whether in life or in business.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's an intersection, of course, with both.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm not a therapist, but definitely a workplace sounding board.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I I shouldn't talk to you about my wife and it it always is so funny because you can't talk about work without talking about life.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really effective in terms of the intersection of those two things.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: However, I chose my specialization to focus on business because I like to focus my quote-unquote therapy work in that area.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel more equipped and uh more prepared to help people in that area.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: However, to say that we don't talk about partners, spouses, relationships, kids, interests, hobbies, passions, of course we do.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: But yes, an MFT is very different.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so how does how does what you do with business psychology, and excuse me, I'm gonna use the dumb term, but how does business psychology relate to a business owner creating value?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I often think that it the the pain point for the business owner is they don't translate the cost of people appropriately to the bottom line.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there are a lot of hidden costs.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think in the discipline of they call it HR, I tend to shy away from that term, but it is traditional human resources needs, I think, a facelift, if I could be so bold, because it's really a discipline about people.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there is, like everything, finance has an administrative component, cost accounting, for example.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's this idea of financial planning.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where we've fallen short in the HR discipline is on strategy and planning.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that happens a lot for the smaller business owner, because they have they don't necessarily have an executive who's tasked with being an expert in that space.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it rolls up to a finance professional, rolls up to an operations leader, or a CEO decides they should take that on and run the business.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm a big advocate on is the first question: are you happy with the results that you're getting?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And generally, if the answer is no, I can dissect quickly the connection points between the people that you have in the organization and the reason why the results in terms of the bottom line outcome, they're not matching up.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: I just had kind of a thought that uh, you know, what you do is definitely at a at a higher higher level of of being, and I don't necessarily mean of sizes of companies, and and neither do you, I know, um where you know, where in a small company like mine, I'm the see everything.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um but when we're talking about is the business owner happy with the results they're getting, well, first they need to have a base layer of do they know if they what their results are, you know, and that often tends to be people like us, CFO type work, uh accounting type work, just to know what's going on, and maybe you know, being able to feed themselves, i.e., you know, is their marketing and sales working okay.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: But as the as you kind of go up this uh hierarchy of needs, if you will, you have uh more difficult and intractable problems.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because great, you're you know what you're doing, you know how to feed yourself, and as you go up though, how do you become the next layer of you know self-actualized business and reach really reach your potential?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's that's I think where where you come in.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, at the at the other end of it though, you're not just an executive coach, though.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you're not an executive coach, although that can be a component, you're you're a business advisor, and that's that's something that you've told me real specifically.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: And why what is the distinction and why is that so important?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's twofold.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think oftentimes an executive business owner, sometimes you don't know what you need.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a oftentimes an executive leader or a business owner has similar to what the statement you made, Ben, like you're a C-suite of everything.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so they've either grown out of another company and been attracted to lead the new company because of their expertise, their competence, their capability.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yet many have not spent as much time developing their people capability in terms of leading and managing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, it's kind of by happenstance, you know, is the leader born or is the leader made?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these different types of anecdotes about that.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's tons of research on it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: But in actuality, my human experience tells me that most people have learned by doing in terms of becoming leaders at work.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and that's different than other disciplines, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to be an accountant, generally you did some type of schooling to become an accountant.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, in this situation, what's really important for the business owner is to feel comfortable raising their hand and saying that they need support and that they'd like a sounding board.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not generally common at the CEO level.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually not common at the C-suite level.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: My experience is that something motivates them to raise their hand and ask for help.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Could be a burning platform, it could be financial resorts, results, it could be having the wrong person in the wrong seat on their leadership team and just continuing to feel that every time you're in the room, like something about this puzzle is not working, and thus I need to consider the pieces in the puzzle.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: But very rarely does the person say, I would like to have an executive coach.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not number one on their list.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I found is that if I act as a business advisor to earn the trust of that leader, then they have no problem asking me for help and support.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, though, I earn that trust by being brought into the organization to solve a very specific business need that has even allowed the CEO to start looking at a symptom of what I find is generally a much larger issue, but this symptom has got their attention and they're like, something about this says I need some help to solve this problem.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I can raise their hand.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: And and very, very often uh I would think those business owners are raising their hands and asking for help from other people first because they might not know you.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: They might ask me, for example, you know, what do we do?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: And guess what?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: I may not have the answer to that, but uh Dr.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: Susie might.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: So we're, you know, looking at these these big problems and actually being able to diagnose, and and I know you're you're not a uh a medical doctor, not exactly anyway.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um but you know what what got you into the into the field?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh kind of what's your professional and and and academic background, and how did how did you evolve into you know the business advisor you are today?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the interesting part about my background is I fell into it and I fell into the wine and spirits space, the wine and spirits industry.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's got lots of naming conventions, beverage alcohol.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, it's really a consumer package goods type of organization and flow.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I became an individual contributor, um, essentially started as a recruiter for the largest wine and spirits distributor in the country and grew with them through lots of different trials and tribulations, um, acquisition of lots of large brands.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So in our world, we call them suppliers.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, in other worlds, they're called clients.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned the importance of people, uh, especially in order to enable those large suppliers' success.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I began to really study who is more successful here?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Who, why do we put these puzzles together when we have this type of large supplier versus a spirit supplier or a wine supplier?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of started to study it, look at the trends.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I found it very interesting.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who's better at it?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who leaves?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why do they come?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't necessarily graduate from college and go, I'm gonna go sell alcohol, mom and dad.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just not necessarily common.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we really dug into the psychology behind it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So my first general manager that really sponsored this area of work had a daughter who was in college.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So he was intrigued by it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we created his general manager project.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a commitment.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like this commitment that he had to make, and everyone was gonna, he's gonna report on it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was like report on the news, and it was gonna be a year-long project.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was beginning to notice some of the chinks in our armor from a talent perspective because I was dealing with the day-to-day manager who's like, this person's not effective, Susie.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, this person's not working.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, something about our model is not working.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't understand quite that level of macro, but what they did understand was I've got this big project.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to follow up with ownership on it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need something good, and I want to do something that no one else is doing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I convinced our general manager, Steve Harden, at the time, uh sold him the idea that we should create a college recruiting strategy and that that would eventually become the point of entry role to then build that capacity internally, support it with a learning and development strategy.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can imagine that was the first piece of the puzzle.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who is it?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna get them?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I helped develop it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And my continuing education was shaped by that decision because I was spending so much time on college campuses and I was meeting with career centers and I did not have a big budget.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, I'll go and get their credential so that I'm a certified career counselor.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm going to them and I don't have a budget, I can be like, but I'll use my time to come in and partner with you.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And as we know in educational systems, they're never right resourced and they're always short of funds.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I'm a Swiss Army knife.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: You need a career counselor, I'm a career counselor.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I also happen to work for Southern Wine and Spirits.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're interested in a job, I can share that with you too.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of the first component where I was like, did an undergraduate degree, then did an HR certificate at Cal.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, all right, there's something to this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not going to go to law school.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like this HR thing.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, hmm, okay, I like working, I like working with college students.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're passionate, can help them kind of shape and design where they want to go.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I found it inspiring.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: We were getting a lot of accolades.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: My GM was stoked.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: His project was going excellent.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like, wow, we need to replicate this.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: We need to start doing this.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was gaining traction.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I continued to evolve eventually, oversaw learning and development, talent management, succession planning, talent attraction, high development and high potential programs.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So all those pieces that I just mentioned, they came from this idea of like, let's attract the right person to the right seat on the bus.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll create like where they go.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Choose your own adventure.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do you go?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we shape that?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I became part of that structure.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: They'd never done it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, what are you talking about?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even a discipline.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then they started paying a lot of consultants, a lot of money.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, who what who is a doctor of what?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've never even heard of this discipline.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, so they were IO psychologists.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I was introduced to my first one.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: We were building a center of excellence, that trendy title for like, we'll pay a lot of people a lot of money to tell us what we kind of already know.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: But then, and what I was finding is they did not know the industry and they did not know how to implement tactical solutions in the world of work.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: They knew great studies been.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they sent me so many articles and all the things that, as like a person who adored this field, of course I would read it, but the average general manager and business leader is like, what?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't really care.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to translate that good intention into actually outcomes that they wanted, which is increased revenue, increased productivity, and increased profitability.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, I'll go back and get the degree if you guys will sponsor it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, We've never done that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I haven't either.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it might be a good idea.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: That must have been much cheaper than you know several consultants at least, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, and at first it was, they weren't super stoked.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then I got even further.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the interesting part became like, I'll tie my dissertation to our environment.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really like, I will tie the work that I'm gonna study throughout this entire process to something that I think is really impactful and compelling in your workplace.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it unlocked what I studied, which was grit, perseverance.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's that intersection between perseverance and passion.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we developed a hiring strategy around grit because that's what got people going, getting knocked down and carrying a bag the next day and adding all these products to it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't any education, it wasn't the school they went to, college athlete, maybe, but the strongest correlation that we found in our research was grit, like that fortitude.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I studied and created the in-roads and got my doctor in it, got doctorate in it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, so now I feel like the service I provide is giving people that strategic thinker in the room at a price that they can afford.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm not a barrier to entry, because that really bugged me.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, how come you know, these smaller companies they are have the same issues, they just don't have the same budgets?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: Generally, much more complicated issues, at least in certain ways.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um I won't say more complicated.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, once you add zeros to something, it it gets complicated just quite enough.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: But but certainly just because there's fewer zeros, it doesn't mean that the that the problem goes away.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, sometimes it gets even more snarled up uh because you have less resources to deal with it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and so I I think it's really cool.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, at the at the end of the day, you know, we've fractionalized all sorts of you know very specialized uh professional services.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my partner Alan being a you know a fractional CFO, and he's he's able to you know come in and be available to much smaller resourced companies.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and in the same way, a smaller company or uh doesn't have to be, but could be a smaller company, smaller, bigger, whatever, uh can can afford a fraction of your time in order to come in and deal with some of the just common but very difficult issues that we all have with with people.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh because again, like you said, not everybody's trained to not everybody's trained to be a business analyst, not everybody's trained to be a business psychologist.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so we're you know, we're we're needed out there.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think um for the smaller business owner, your margin for error is also much smaller.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you've got larger budgets, right, you can you can afford to take a misstep.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: That piece of curriculum didn't work, Ben.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: That content didn't work, it didn't land, that competency model didn't work.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just, we're gonna throw that one out and we're gonna move forward with the next gold standard because this other consultant said so.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: But in a smaller business, the margins are so tight.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: The PL is is so tight, especially in today's day and age, and certainly in the industry that I'm in, and in any vertical that I've been in, to be honest.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you have to be a lot more thoughtful and you have to be a lot more practical.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I help people create practical and tactical solutions that can have an immediate impact versus this idea of we've got to test and learn, and we've got to pilot something, and then we've got to adjust it, and then we've got to make a mistake, and then we've got to take that technology out and put new technology in.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not what a small to mid-sized CEO is thinking.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Susie, hit the bullseye the first time.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I think I I can I hear where you're coming from.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't 100% tell you that I'm gonna do that because I'm betting on human behavior, but I can tell you that I'm more equipped to do that than many.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I think one one of the reasons why you are more qu equipped than many uh you know, is the fact that you actually really are different than a lot of business advisors, either the I'll just say the the academic only ones, you know, the the people who have have really functioned uh only as in the role of consultant or only as a as an academic.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you actually have the real world experience, which I think is great by the way, that that you you did all a lot of your schooling after you had some real world experience.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: So there's that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then on the other side, the the part where I think you're just a cool nerd like me.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I'll on the nerd part anyway.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: The uh the fact that you really use real data that actually describes behavior and is predictive of behavior.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: So you're not just saying, well, this tends to work, we don't know why, but it tends to work and we're gonna do this.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: You actually can say, well, we know it works in these situations because of X, Y, and Z data, and it probably won't work over here, and this other thing will work over there, that sort of thing, where you can actually aim quite a bit better than than most other people.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that that that use of data really does resonate with me a lot, obviously.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it and it's very rare to bring that level of I'll say quantitative analytics to something that's kind of squishy, which is people.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's very, very, very cool.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it kind of just, you know, just juices me up to think about that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's an interesting intersection of just you you need data make to make informed decisions.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, if we historically look at, I'll give a data example.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: If we look at the number of um chief people officers that are on an executive team, if you just start there across the country, and then you take it down a slice more or a slice up more, how many chief people officers are on boards?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think the mistake is that inability to use data.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's generally they're good storytellers, then, but they don't, they're not able to articulate their point with actually the Data they need in order to get the attention of the people that are in the room.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that, and it's evidenced.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like you look at any circle or SWAT or cloth or any way you slice and dice the data, it just says a lot of it is still HR administration, right, wrong, or indifferent.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is not my wheelhouse.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a maintainer.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm generally a disruptor who's brought in because they're either imploding, growing, or exiting.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and again, I have to be able to use data in order to articulate what I know instinctively, but that a business leader can't necessarily believe unless I make it relevant for them in that moment.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people leaders struggle with that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's been, it's, I think it's a curse of the discipline.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I've seen it my whole, my whole career, my whole life.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I and I do think it is a sort of a bane of our combined existence that there's not really a credential or or even an academic path or anything that says you you are qualified to be a business advisor, business consultant.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we can't all work for McKinsey, um, you know, that that sort of thing.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um so there's a lot of people running around out there who have no idea and aren't even coming at it from a particularly strong angle, no matter what.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously you and I have different angles, but we do focus on some of the same things, which is why we we overlap in in what we do.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: But there's a lot of people who say, yeah, I just have a gut feeling because I've done I've done a good thing once.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: I exited a my business and that was a good experience, and now I know all about exiting businesses.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's cool.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_04: But that's a you know, an experiment of one, good job.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: You you you aced that test.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: But that doesn't mean you know other other domains.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so just having that breadth of experience is is really is really great.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um being able to turn that quantitative uh people data into something actionable, something that a business owner can wrap their heads around and put belief into the path, because a lot of times it will seem fairly fairly squishy.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Keep going back to that term.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unnecessary, touchy feely, you name it, you name it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily, not relevant, not changing the bottom line, not my problem.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: You name it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, people should just be different.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, sometimes it comes down to that, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, get over it, do do your job.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um I know too, you know, as a as a boss and a leader and manager and all the things, sometimes you feel like that, even if that's not obviously the reaction that you can or can have, should have, or you know, is really even productive.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: But you're like, just get can you please get on with it?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, everybody can say the same about me, too.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: So there's that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: We're all we're all people.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um so when when you when you go about translating quantifiable things like turnover or engagement, how how do you turn those quantifiable things into other quantifiable things through through recommendations, quantifiable things like profit?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is a little bit of a longer walk, to be honest, Ben.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I think those correlations are very direct in certain circumstances and indirect in other circumstances.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it depends on how successful the business is to actually translate the cost of turnover.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people measure all of their results, let's say on turnover.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, but do you really want the people that you have to continue to be so loyal?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that actually serving you?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, and you're like, oh wow, Susie, that's kind of a good question because you're like, oh, I've had no turnover, Susie.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Susie, I didn't have a people problem.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have no turnover.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, but I have a problem with the people that you have in the seats that haven't left.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it really comes down to, I think first, it's I'm able to quickly size up in a room.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so these are the patterns of behavior that I see.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: These are the structural implications that are getting in the way.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell that by a simple thing like, okay, so at the top of the pyramid, you have the CEO.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: How many direct reports does that person have?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's his span?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Scope.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you so you start digging in and then you'll figure out, and then you go down the and you're like, okay, and then what about Ben?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Ben's the CFO.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he has the biggest team.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, he has the biggest team, he's got the most direct reports, and the CEO says he has the least amount of time for him to be strategic and do the work that he needs.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we probably have a span of control issue.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ben scrolled down, managing the details.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we might even need like another layer between Ben and Susie.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe there needs to be a Susie in there so that that could free Ben up.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it generally always starts with, I don't start with the end in mind, but every other consultant I know does.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: They say, I'm gonna produce a scorecard for you, Susie, and it's gonna have all these cool graphics and it's gonna tell you your turnover.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but if turnover is not the problem that you're trying to solve, why am I gonna tell you about your turnover?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because your turnover is not the problem, or you haven't even really considered turnover in the way that you need to, which is is it a good or a bad thing to have low turnover?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: We know the myth, what everyone says, oh, so great.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: My turnover's so low.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, certain jobs you need turnover, like in my example when I talked about our point of entry job in sales.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very high turnover role.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: We intentionally designed it that way because people were moving up and they were graduating or they were moving out.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really important to the organization.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't want to hold on to the rotting fruit.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, we're cool if they if this isn't for them.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: If this isn't for us and it isn't for them, cool.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I start with again some of the some of the questions to get to know what the CEO's philosophy is and really what's keeping them up at night.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: It starts with as it relates to people, Ben, what are you worried about?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are what would what would create a burning platform or something that we can't overcome from a people standpoint?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, I will design the exact measurements that are easy, repeatable, they don't require a ton of data.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You already have a lot of it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I always start my data journey, not some fancy smancy scorecard that no one cares about and you send it out every month.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I support it with the narrative, one slide.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's always gonna be the need to explain.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone talks to me and they're like, Susie, that was such a great question.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, and I have to explain to you why I asked it.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because just like this example on turnover, you could get really hooked up on engagement.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect example.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: When did you ask them?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is half the company gone now?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how often are you doing it?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: What was the action plan as a result of it?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Your engagement score sucks.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or, okay, great, we just changed CEOs.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a ton of sense from an I.O.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: standpoint.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're in this like chapter of change.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: We don't expect it to be good until.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think all the data can be shaped and misled.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I bring is a level of objectivity to ask how do we make sure that we're measuring the right things that matter for this specific leadership philosophy and for the business results that are our goal in the next one, three, and five years.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and I love that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, and when when you immediately corrected me on saying, hey, this metric should be up or down or left or right, uh, that that clicked.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: That clicked hard because j just like in in finance, I mean, there there are there are times when maybe you need to have high AR, and that's a good thing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes having low AR is a good thing, and it's never absolute.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it's you know very much based on the specific context that the business is operating in, the particular business, the per, as you said, the particular goal of that business and and where you know, where where you where you've been, where you are, and where you're going.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I I love the fact that you you checked me on definitions right up front there, because that's that's the right thing, absolutely.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're gonna exit, I mean it'd be like doing an engagement survey at an exit period.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're not gonna do that right now.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when do we time it?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's the the cool thing that I'm able to see is the force through the trees.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've got a new person coming into the seat.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: We need to have let him have his first 120 days in office.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: He needs a partner to support him, know where the grenades are so he doesn't step in them or her.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, it's like, okay, so how do we start to build the strategy where we want to check in and see how things are going?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you it's all about, again, the the intervention that you use, the purpose of the intervention, and what business problem does that intervention solve?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can tie that to a masterful scorecard that doesn't take people 10 days to put together and that no one reads.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because that I have zero patience for.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have experienced that in the larger models where I'm like, I don't want to sit and put those things together because you're business operator, they can't understand it.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, a doctor did it with all the right logic.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if I can't understand it and I can't explain it, and I can't make it land from a business logic standpoint, no one's gonna read it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and if it doesn't actually tie back to one of the real levers that affects results, then it's it's it's maybe a you know, is the the speedometer, not the gas pedal.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so or the hammer, not the nail.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't use the nail, like you know what I mean?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, sometimes you need a screwdriver, Susie.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So let's figure out the screwdriver.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: But oh no, we need the hammer, we need the hammer for everything.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I get frustrated with the consulting discipline sometimes.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, absolutely.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: And well, uh let's go off on that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when you have a hammer, it doesn't matter if it's the best hammer in the world, uh, everything looks like a nail.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're not looking at a nail, in reality, you need something else.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: So you you've mentioned before that you're tool agnostic, you're not tied to a particular framework or assessment.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_04: So, what what in your context, what does that mean and why is that important for what you're doing?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I again I think that consulting model generally stems from a relationship or a personal preference.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know a lot about this tool.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like a pro so personality assessments are a great one?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Susie, do you like predictive index?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like disk?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like Myers Briggs back in the day?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like strengths finders?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I again, I like using a tool that has a business impact.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes if then if the tool has already got some traction bin and it's like the CEO is familiar with it, it has some relevant competencies that tie to the values of the company.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I rip that tool out to replace it with something similar to again start at the beginning of the journey?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know that a tool is starting to take hold in a company when they start parroting the language.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I know, like, oh, or I know I'm having an impact.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like Susie came in, oh, Susie always says, let's put someone's feet on the ground, or have we thought about the things we don't know before making the decision?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, same thing with a tool, but you have to listen.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how many times have we used this tool?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is it embedded in our coaching strategy?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are we hiring to it?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are we firing to it?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, we just have people take it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say I don't really need that tool.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, tool agnostic means to me, again, like you've got to understand the business problem you're trying to solve.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to be well-versed enough to know, I don't want to get sold on a tool.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want to explore a couple of them.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also see people see people explore so many that they can't make a decision.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really ineffective.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm normally the rule of three.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: 80% directionally there, I'm gonna provide you with the top three options based on now me understanding your business that might work.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's gonna be personal preference.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: What lands with you?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is it available in multiple language?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a very, I've got a bilingual workforce.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Does that translate?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Does it scale from boots on the ground to the boardroom?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you just start to know.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because if 30% of your, if your 30% of your audience can't take it or they're not at a computer, okay, then we need to think about that.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, that's not that's a non-issue for this client or customer.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like my strength is knowing what to ask.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people are blown away because they're like, I don't understand why you asked me that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then once you explain it, you're like, I asked you because if we buy the greatest tool and we buy it for everybody, but no one can use it, and only you care about it because your best friend works for them, it's not gonna work.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: That that's that's really cool about the uh asking sometimes inscrutable questions, but that are super important.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: I just had a recording session with uh one of my mentors, Bill Reeb, uh, who does uh leadership training in particular in law firms and CPA firms.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: He's wonderful.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: And one the the story I told in in that recording, even uh was one time as a much younger uh uh professional, I kind of had a little bit of a crisis of confidence.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I said, gosh, can I really do this?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_04: And we we got we got to talking, and he just said, you know, you have to remember that most consultants really are just asking really good questions.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: Can you do that?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, oh, I think I just did.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: Great, wonderful.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: So that that got me over a little bit of a little bit of a hurdle there.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody, I want to take a second here to share something about who we are and why we make this show.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: You're probably here because either you or a client of yours is thinking about buying or selling a business, bringing in investment, or planning an eventual exit.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that is why we call this show Max Value.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: We provide you with information and insights about how to maximize the value of your business.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Our team at Town Advisory guides business owners through the crucial, often once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to exit their business.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: We use our trademarked exit builder program to help business owners prepare early, protect the value they've built, and obtain maximum value through an exit.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: And the secret is our clients define what value means to them.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: Taking the right steps now can make all the difference in creating a successful outcome for yourself, your family, and your work team.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: If you think you're ready for the next step in understanding and increasing the value of your business, make a comment, send me a message on LinkedIn, or send me an email.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_04: All those links are in the show notes.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a strength of yours.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably why we like partnering or having conversations, is because it you kind of just have to let your ego go and be like, let the expert kind of guide me.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let let let them just map the course and kind of ride the wave.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And most CEOs really struggle with that because they've always been positioned as the expert.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_04: And it and I will say it I don't know if it scales up and down exactly the same way, but in I I have noticed it with myself as well as you know other other business leaders, uh, in particular, you know, ones who are quite successful and who have been there, you know, for a long time.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um maybe now they're exiting their firm after, you know, 30 years or whatnot.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: They do have to have a certain sense of uh we could say ego, although you know, maybe more in the you know, the the uh classic definition, but they really have to understand who they are, what they're doing, and you know, have that confidence in themselves, you know, what they've done has worked over a long period of time.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe they do know what the hell they're talking about, which is absolutely the case.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: And yet being able to have the duality of holding that, I know what the hell I'm doing, this is what works or has worked, and also at the same time saying, okay, could it what don't I still know?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_04: What can I do better?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: What can the firm do better?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: What can uh Dr.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: Susie help me with?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: Oh that kind of thing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: So speaking of what Dr.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: Susie can help me with, uh you and I both work with a lot of privately held businesses, a lot of family-owned businesses.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: What makes those sorts of organizations unique from a psychological and strategic standpoint uh as businesses?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I think they're the most interesting business.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be perfectly honest, I think they have the most dynamics of any business.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like if you can specialize in that and alcohol on top of it, like, I mean, come on, you got something going.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what makes it unique is that the boardroom becomes the dinner table.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: It just inherently, and everyone's like, that didn't happen.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: The psychology is not in the room.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it did.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have your last name, but I can tell you I feel it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like something is in this room that has nothing to do with this business decision that we're making, and everything to do with frustration with 15 others that we made, or frustration with something else that's happening in the family ecosystem, or something else that's happening in your personal relationship ecosystem.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's just the pressure, the pressure and the identity that someone who's got their name on the door, a seat on at the table, leading people.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't know that people truly understand that.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I haven't truly understood it until I've watched humans go through it and really process that, like that commitment that they're making to be stewards of that company and then the pressure that they feel being the brand or representing the brand.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I my question to anyone who says it's it doesn't have a place is I don't think you've been in a family-owned business boardroom because it is inherent in every boardroom I've ever been in.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: What I will say is, I may not be invited to the boardroom because they may be afraid of kind of getting that perspective.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they've got to be able to digest what I'm going to share and have the readiness to be able to get into some of this work.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I could have a close sign on that boardroom, and that's certainly, you know, the business's prerogative.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: But those where I am thoughtfully invited in and take my role seriously, it's inherently everywhere.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's at every generation, at every twist, at every turn, at every, this is how my dad did it versus this is what my mom recommended versus this is what Aunt Sally suggests versus, and everyone has a different care, passion, area of expertise, or sometimes non-area of expertise, but have been placed in a role because we need that family connection point.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I would just say I could talk about this up for a whole separate podcast.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who would know is not in the boardroom, I would say, I don't, I don't know what boardroom you're in then.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, publicly traded, I think a whole different deal because I've been in those two, right?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you have too.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it's totally different.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's it's stakeholders who aren't in it.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so, and that has strengths and limitations, right?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: So their glasses are not as cloudy with the dirt from being out on the ranch.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes then they bring in things that don't work.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really to me, it's leveraging the best of both worlds.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do we leverage the expertise, the passion, the care that you have for this business that no one will have like you do?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we then employ and integrate at the most high-stakes moments the most important advisors who can help you see at that 10 and 30,000 feet so that you don't make a decision that you can't come back from?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, another another advisor I know says, yeah, I mean, you really have to make sure that everybody can come to the uh Thanksgiving table and have, you know, have dinner there, uh, as well as go to the boardroom table and do do actual business there.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: The um and sometimes it's not even just family, sometimes it's employees who are so long with the company that they're like family.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there I go back to tenure and turnover.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like sometimes having a team of people who have been there for 30 years when you're trying to implement something new.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ben, how's it working out for us?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: So intentionally we might have to disrupt that in order to enable an early adopter.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: We need the person who's steady Eddie or steady Sally, and then we need the early adopter, and then we need the people in the middle.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: But generally speaking, what does someone who's got great tenure think?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: They think, let's do it the same way.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not broke, let's not fix it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and there's a there's a lot of sense of risk.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, and whether that's the employee or the a family member in this case, but potentially, there's a uh there could be a lot of risk.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you mentioned this with in particular with very small entities where there's just much less.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Margin for error.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: So the the downside of changing something is really upsetting the Apple cart again when there's not a lot of margin for error, even though the upside might be great to change something or at least try something different.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: So trying to really make things uh make changes at least uh with mitigated risk.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Or in your case, I would I would say in particular, uh more certainty.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_04: And you you know, you use you use data to help provide that certainty.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: You said, hey, look, I'm expected to hit the bullseye every time.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and that's that gives you the best shot at.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: So do are you able to use data to kind of depersonalize some of the conversations that you have with with these small and family businesses?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Such a great question.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think again, that depends on their personality and organizational appetite.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like know your audience, Susie.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: For some, it's anecdotal.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people like similar industry.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to understand what others are doing.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are you well versed?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand what's happening big, medium, small?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's enough to use real-world practical experience.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been a practitioner, I've been in the seat for 25 years, I've been in the space my whole career.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes that's enough.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in every facet, I haven't been in every room, but my breadth and depth of knowledge is sometimes enough.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Other times it's not.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, it's not landing.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, and oftentimes I will say, is that what's the bar we're measuring ourselves against?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the root, that's this, that's generally the question I start most CEOs with is I am excellent in cannabis.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, great, how's it working out for you?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: There are some improvement opportunities we know with the current administration in your space.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's making it harder for you to do business.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not my words, what's been imposed.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then I just start with, so do we want to measure against that or do we want to really consider that this is a crop and that you are actually in farming?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have assets, you have land, you have people.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's like in this space, I'm doing great.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear that so many times in every industry.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they couldn't possibly know what it's like to be in this.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, most people can.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Human behavior translates.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: So generally speaking, it's like, I've got to know my audience.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's gonna flip the switch so that they go, maybe she does know what she's talking about.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe I can't dismiss what she was saying with my limiting belief.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes it is research, sometimes it is a personal story, sometimes it's invite a friend to the meeting and get a special guest.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I need a bend today.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: I need a bend because something about the way I'm translating this is not gonna work.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to really flip the switch and have this conversation.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, but the but the research that I find is not to overdo it, and I find it's a snapshot, and it's gotta be really concise and pinpointed.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to be very clear on why I'm sharing it.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: This I am sharing this study with you from the 1980s because it still holds true today in 2025.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: The signature one for me often starts out as third generation is a tipping point in family businesses.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that transition point, we can't overlook it.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: You can decide it's not going to apply to your company, but the research says it applies to everyone.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a great play where I often get credibility very easily.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, so what about this worries you?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I can't believe this happened to them.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, does that mean that that could happen to us?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you know you flip the switch, you've gotten their attention.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: It does mean that, and it could happen to us, and so that's why we've got to start thinking about these things in this way.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_04: So from that, from that standpoint, it's really educating can be about educating the client or potential client about what real risks there are out there, you know, the all those landmines that they they don't see because they've never been down this particular path before.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, to some extent, businesses are all unique and all situations are unique, and nobody will ever understand me, blah, blah, blah.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_04: As a lot of uh a lot of people and a lot of uh business leaders, you know, kind of say or or or don't say, they just act like it.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um but you know, there is to your point, there is a lot of commonality in situations, and pattern recognition is is something that human beings and in particular professionals are really great at.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and being able to learn a lesson here but apply it over there, uh, that's that's why we all exist and have a job.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and you know, one thing to point out too is you you you kind of have brought it up a couple of different times.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know, to make to make your point, uh you know, we we we want to focus on you know what people don't do right, uh but at the same time, you know, with especially with small businesses, there there was, you know, there probably was a time and a place to have this particular bookkeeper involved.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_04: They were, you know, a they're a relative and they weren't the best bookkeeper in the world, but you could trust them to the moon.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: That was perfect and necessary at at a particular state in time.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_04: And now it's not, unfortunately.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's not the uh you need the skill even at this point, even more than the trust.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that doesn't make any sense, does it?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it does, because you can build trust into the system uh you know as as a as a mitigating factor for not having that implicit amount of, well, this person would never do anything bad uh to us.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_04: So uh just having that I think having that recognition, and this is the swishy side of look, there is a positive to all the you know, the things that you did or are doing have positives to them, and yet sometimes those positives have shrunk in comparison to the demand now.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_04: What you guys need to do now is way over here when you guys are still stuck over here because you you think that the benefit of one of those pieces is way more or way more necessary than than well, maybe probably than it used to be.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I see that all the time, especially as you know, businesses get more successful and grow and you know get towards that exit.
• 50:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so when we're when we're talking about exit and succession, uh that's one of the areas that I know is you know can be kind of sticky.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: We were just talking about, you know, the small businesses and family-owned businesses and whatnot.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: So uh what are the what's the one takeaway from this conversation that you would want people to have when they are one of those people, a leader of a family business that wants to transition?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, the one thing I think it would be to make sure that you have the right experts and partners in the room where you're making these high-stakes decisions.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they keep those decisions really close.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they need a Ben.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, generally speaking, I think they need a Susie sometimes.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think it's opening their eyes to the fact that if we don't think about after the deal is signed, we spend so much time, every person I've spoken to who maybe didn't even really understand what I do, and they're like, Well, why do I need to talk to you?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you don't.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, quite honestly, that's your choice.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if you, if you would like to, what what is so unique to me as I'm delving into your world of MA, and I'm not an expert.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I self-admitted.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a strong businesswoman.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have a heart for people, and you can make really costly mistakes.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, a formula is not gonna explain that mistake because I know you've got models, and now I've started to understand that, and I love it.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the narrative behind it.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So now that the ink is dry and we've got a CEO who we think is at 95% capacity and is gonna tip the scales, or we've got the CEO who's operating at 30% capacity for the new model.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna help them?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or we've got two CEOs they've never met, they don't talk.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: You just you and and those are the things that surprise me in my discipline in the same way that you look at numbers and go, this company could never be ready to do what they think they're gonna do.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like this person came to me and they said, with a straight face, Ben, I am prepared to do this.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, wow, that is not what my assessment shows.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, like you are no more ready to do that than fly to the moon, but let's talk about it.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can guide you through this because you're dealing with numbers generally to tell your story.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using some evidence with data, because I've been forced to.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then there has to be an opportunity to have a narrative.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I just say you you really got to get clear.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, I've got two sales forces.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, wow, okay.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: How's that gonna work out for you?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't even have you scoped the job.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have the right person?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the criteria you're gonna use to pick?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want Harry or Tom?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you want Sally?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sally's not even on the org chart.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, Sally.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you you're not even that what I do is not even often in the room and yet can be so costly.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the other part that small business owners and CEOs don't understand in the state of California.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you, Ben, we do what we do where it's really, really hard and it's constantly changing.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: And people who are making the rules for us aren't practical, tactical business owners.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're sitting writing, you know, a legal brief that says, Susie, try to apply this in the real world.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then my business owner is like, that can't possibly be the law.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but it is.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: There's that too.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're compliant aspect of the times.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're we we won't, we won't have the farm as general as it is.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: We won't have the asset, we won't have the land, we won't have the people, we won't have the product, like none of it will exist.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that margin for error, especially in high-stakes situation, is small.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you think of coming out of a deal and making someone upset, that's a great question to ask.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is anyone to be really upset by this?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because they want to continue working and they're getting a payout, Susie.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are gonna be upset then.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Then we should talk about that.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are we planning for that financially?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: How are we planning for that to help the person that's gonna now lead the team, that the older person who had more of the experience in the relationship?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now they're intentionally gone because they're ready to sunset.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if one employee reaches out and says, you want to have a conversation, it's gonna be risk, liability, it's not good for the brand, it's not good for the culture, it's not good for this for the new, all bad.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And no one understands the cost of one wrong conversation.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say the thing I would want people to take away in this very long-winded answer is ask the right questions and have some guidance around people in your thoughtful financial plan if you think you're gonna be successful as you move into the first 120 days in office, because the research does show you can't go and do it again.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: You are immediately, the moment that ink is dry, going to start to set the tone and tenor of how people think about you from now until the end of time.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you will be able to undo the damage and it'll take you three to four times as long.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_04: One of the things that you just said was uh, you know, if if some of the Susie stuff uh, you know, may not be in the room uh because nobody's invited you in.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that I I'd want to add to that, you know, the the the issues, the people issues that uh you know you deal with and help ameliorate are in the room, period.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: They just don't know uh sometimes they don't see them, sometimes they ignore them actively because they're too hard to deal with.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so the it's it's sitting there like a like a ghost in the room no matter what.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_04: And hopefully uh, you know, Dr.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: Potts can come in and ghost bust.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um the uh you know the I'll say the other thing is with uh with with what we do uh valuing businesses, helping them uh get ready for exit, that that sort of thing, we do absolutely use numbers as kind of the the lingua franca uh between all business owners.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, you know, it really we absolutely recognize that it is about at the end of the day, all business is about the people in some way, shape, or form.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, we you know when I do a business evaluation, I say, hey, look, you know, let's give us the give us the financials, give us the projections, and then we gotta talk about them because we have to understand what the story is behind this company.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, the the these things are facts, or hopefully for the projections, they're fact-based at least.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and when when we look at facts, that's not the same thing as understanding the the actual narrative or the implications of all those facts.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and I think you gotta you can get a lot of misinformation and poor advice when you're trying to bust ghosts.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've got to, you know, be able to hold your own and be like, yeah, that didn't answer my question.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm not really sure that that's exactly what I'm looking for, or wow, that does not make sense.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like that doesn't translate to me.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: What you just said, and then what I think is happening, these two things don't correlate.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have some pretty, pretty um, you have to be very grounded in in your role and art as a facilitator with really high-stakes conversations.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think a lot of consultants, they're not trained for that.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: They, they've they're they're trained to recommend a tool for some model and drive towards what their particular organization has said is the right model.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that is completely in conflict with, I think, probably your and I style, which is you got to know your customer, you got to know what their business goals are, and then you need to be a Swiss Army knife so that you can identify how do you actually align them to your thinking that is good for them, but they're not gonna take the medicine unless they begin to think they need it, want it, desire it, even if they're gonna get sick from it.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's only temporary.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the art of maybe again, you know, some of us who are doing doing strategic work, but in a very unique and effective way.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uniquely effective.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh let's uh what was that?
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Take the medicine.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_04: Take the medicine, take the medicine.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: Let's let's just we'll stick with that as the uh as the tagline.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_04: Take the medicine.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay, but you know what?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_04: The medicine taking time is over.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_04: That that was uh that was that was that was really good.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much for uh for answering all the all the tough questions, but I do have a couple of maybe easier getting to know you questions that that don't have to go down with a spoonful of sugar.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_04: So um let's let's just do a couple of these.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um can you tell me something that's not on your LinkedIn or on on your website?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a yoga instructor.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_04: Are you really?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna teach class this evening, and I love it.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I do hot yoga, so I'm like a really unique person who likes to be in a really hot room.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've done it for 25 years.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds so uncomfortable.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uncomfortable.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I maybe in this you said like I go there to relax.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: I go into an uncomfortably hot room to relax.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that'll tell you about how I deal with high-stakes um conversations when the temperature's right and we're just talking about people.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I put myself in very uncomfortable situations every day for 90 minutes.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: On purpose.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: On purpose, and I like it.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: I I did not know that.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um why why is what you do rewarding?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, it's it's rewarding for so many reasons at this point.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's rewarding right now because I'm I'm able to help so many organizations.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't sure I'd ever do that.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, came up the ranks in a very traditional way.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Large company, um, tap on the shoulder, you're great, we'll keep growing you.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there were risks with with with every decision that I made from a career perspective.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think what I think I can really relate to the small business owner now.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have a budget, I don't have these rock star things.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I, but what I do have is the ability to really get to choose who I share my strengths with and who I partner with.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what's so meaningful.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for a minute, I there was a minute a year ago where I was like, oh, Susie, wow, maybe I should just go back and do the traditional CHRO thing where you have inherent credibility and I walk in a room and they already know me and they picked me for that job.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: And supposedly they're they're gonna listen to me.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, nope, nope, want to stick on the harder route.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: And by really doing that, now I'm I'm just I'm I'm learning so much, and I get it.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really understand, I understand the pressure, I understand um the margin, the error, the the weight, and it's working out.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's working out great.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Look at I'm talking to you on a Friday.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I'm I think this is super cool.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: And every person I talk to is like, what are you up to?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm doing all kinds of unique things.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's what makes it worth it now is betting betting on myself.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Others were willing to bet on me sooner than I was willing to bet on myself.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_04: That is common.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_04: That is extremely common.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I've said the same thing myself many times.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_04: That I'm glad I'm glad you're finding that to be the case for you as well.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously that means that there's success that's following that that uh correct belief, which is which is excellent.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, like you said, you know, it's it's a it's a different world in that you know you nobody's gonna care as much as you about about your business.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_04: Umbody could possibly.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um that does make it a little cloudy sometimes.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: But also you get paid in freedom, and yeah, same thing.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_04: I we're speaking on a Friday afternoon, and I I love being able to do that and having the freedom to to you know take a few minutes for a podcast, you know, rather than being having to chunk out another, you know, billable hour.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's great.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing for me.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, last question.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_04: What are you reading?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, what am I not reading?
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, goodness gracious.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am reading two things right now, both of which were gifts.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: One is the irresistible consultant's guide to winning clients.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: No good.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Six steps to unlimited clients and financial freedom.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't started it.
• 1:04:12
  unknown: No.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just got it.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's written by some really smart person who was who someone told me, like, just where you're at right now, Susie.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's they say start thinking right side up, um, and really thinking about everyone as a prospect.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just got some really good ideas about you know how to kind of think about yourself as just that indispensable tool that everyone needs, and yeah, maximizing your impact, fishing where the fish are.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, you know this better than me.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's one.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other was another gift, and that's the four disciplines of execution.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've taken some clients through a lot of big restructuring exercises right now.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't heard the wine industries, it's it's having some transformation required of it.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was talking with a peer, and he was like, Susie, you need this.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: Achieving your wildly important goals through the four disciplines of execution.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think discipline in decision making with small to medium-sized businesses, hard, hard, hard to get them to just we are aligned and we are going forward.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if we don't do it well, we will come back to that and change.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: But getting them to commit and holding themselves accountable foundationally, I think is challenging.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this has a little bit of a six sigma lean kind of thought woven in.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably familiar with it.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's very well known.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: But those are the two I'm I just got them this week.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I have so many books, it would drive you bananas, boxes.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: My husband can't stand it.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I just not good.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not good.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even the fact that I got two books this week is probably bad.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, bad.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: But those are them, those are my books.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: The the only thing I've I've been able to have that keeps my wife from kicking me out, I think, about uh having too many books is is now we do audio, I do a lot of audio books, so it's all on the phone.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, otherwise, the yeah, it's uh it's bad.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not a good look.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's books, books, books.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean yoga, but I mean books.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's like another certification.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're going back to school again.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can we not?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can we not?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can we can we can we hold the phone?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: What are you studying now?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's constant for me, so yeah, lots of books.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you have those two important letters in front of your name, whereas have some behind our name.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the differentiator.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lots of books.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's awesome.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: I I always love talking to people about uh you know about the things that they're putting in their brains.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: So if if you want somebody to find you, how would they do it?
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, LinkedIn right now.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's um, yeah, so I don't I don't know if I like say my handle, but you just look me up on LinkedIn, Dr.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: Susie Potts, and that's really message me.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a great way to find me.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my go live date for my website.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm almost done with it.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was still playing around with the messaging.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't decide if I wanted to be a keynote speaker or not.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm gonna keep it as a swim lane because it kind of manifested that into happening with conferences and such.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my big sticking point.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll flip the switch on that.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: And everything to date then has been my referral, to be honest.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just like so needless to say, but those are my more larger broadcastable ways to talk with me.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but generally speaking, everyone's come through and with me by the reputation I have in the space that I've stayed in and will continue to support.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: Come heck or high water, because we will be you will always drink wine and you will always hear me say that.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but that's how you find me.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I'm always happy to connect, and of course, your information will be in the in the show notes uh in case anybody wants to uh look at it there.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_04: So Dr.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_04: Susie, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and just have a look at time with me.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's great.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nice work, Ben the Podcaster.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: That's a wrap.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_04: You've been listening to Max Value Podcast.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_04: And if this episode provided any interesting information, hit that subscribe button, smash like, and drop a comment below.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Ben Town with Town Advisory, and I'll catch you next time.