Latest / The Weekly Run / Earnings Insights | #31

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Earnings Insights | #31 · The Weekly Run

• Jeff Perera: What do I say? I r I like totally for brain farted. I think start I start over. Welcome to the weekly run. I'm Jeff. And we're talking about what's hot at Jeff's Bagel Run. And Aaron, this week I wanted to talk about our regulars. Aaron: Scott. I'm Aaron We love our regulars. Jeff Perera: You gotta love your regulars. If you don't love your regulars, what do you I mean, you're doing it wrong. Aaron: Is yeah, you need to make ⁓ all regulars. But that's easier said than done. Jeff Perera: I mean so much so that some of the It is easier said than done and you know the biggest players in the space are talking about service and talking about operational execution as a reason for why sales are dropping. McDonald's and Sweet Green both reported earnings in the last week and both indicated traffic and sales were down, primarily because of dips in operation, which resulted in service gaps. Aaron: That's a pretty bold statement from certainly a brand like McDonald's that I mean is what is McDonald's if not the system, right? That's sort of their entire legacy is really built around, you know, that ⁓ having a system, having it be consistent. So curious that's quite a a statement for them to make, to to pin any sort of ebb and flow on on operations specifically, at least in my mind. Jeff Perera: Yeah, they specifically said that our restaurant teams were overwhelmed by too many deployments it within the quarter, which led to less efficient restaurant operations. And that impacted customer service times. Aaron: Hm. Deployments being like LTOs, new menu items. Jeff Perera: ⁓ I think it was new menu items. They launched some they they were pretty aggressive with their menu innovation over the last quarter and they put a lot of stuff on the store teams, I think, and he also indicated that they also reduced some of the value items that they carry. So I think there was a kind of a double whammy there. But to your point, McDonald's kind of built the idea of like efficiency in a restaurant operation and here they are saying that this is the difference maker in us making sales or missing sales quarter over quarter. Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: That's bold. Aaron: Which i it's bold and it also really I think speaks to that link between that in-store operations and sales, which again I don't think we're breaking any new ground here by by saying that. But I think my hot take on that is as a classic example of something that I think we say as an industry, we know as an industry to be true, but then don't always take a lot of action. around it. They don't we don't we don't we don't do things that that indicate that we do understand that fact and that causality, right? Like we'll say it and then we'll go and disrupt op op you know operations or let let things drop and just be like, da sales will fix it. Right. It's like, well no, there's a there's a real causal link there. And customers will ebb and flow with your business around that. I know we talk about it a lot at JBR. Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Yeah, mean we have dedicated hours and hours and hours of discussion amongst the leadership team on how to improve in streamland operations, how to deliver on operations, to improve four wall performance. You know, we we start there in in many respects. I mean, even I think with your technology team, you're looking at ways to make the processes in the stores more efficient for the teams so that they can do more guest engagement. Aaron: Which I think is an important piece of it. And and we talk about this sometimes with new franchisees as well, around just this notion of of engagement, like like actual engagement, not just the literals of ⁓ take your order, I'll hand you your bag, but you know, how you can kind of go to that next level of that. And I think it's it's easy to confuse efficiency with experience. And you certainly look at some of these bigger brands that traditionally have optimized for efficiency, thinking that a lot of customers, and there probably was a time when this was true, that I had a great experience if I had a fast experience or an easy experience. Or, you know, you could call it efficient, but it's like really it's speed. How fast and painlessly can I get this service? Food, whatever. And I think that that's changing. You know, if that was sort of the measure for our generation, I don't think that's the measure of experience anymore. I think people are willing to invest a little bit more time and expect a little bit more from the in-store engagement than just was it fast? Jeff Perera: Yeah, I think speed is a part of the everyday culture now in the at least in the quick service restaurant, fast casual space. Like there is a level of efficiency you expect, you know. We're not talking about a full service dining experience where a lunch ticket time could run, you know, eighteen to twenty two minutes. We're talking about a quick service restaurant where, you know, Jeffs Bagel Run we were looking at like three minute ticket times, right? Like we were trying to turn people over as fast as possible because there's nothing worse than waiting in the line for something. Aaron: Correct. Jeff Perera: And so how quickly can we get through that? But that said, there is this expectation for engagement. There's this expectation for, Welcome in, is this your first time visiting? Or welcome back, Aaron, rosemary salt today, right? Like there's a there is an expectation that we have with our teams. And I think that engagement, that level of service, gives the team the opportunity to go a little long. exceed a three minute ticket time or maybe they've made the ticket time and they're just busy chatting it up with the guest and having a great time. And that experience changes the way the guest feels about it. Like our store. Aaron: Totally agree. And I think that that's you said something that I just wanted to sort of highlight on is that It's it's about where you're fast and where you're engaged. And I had an experience in I'll shout out O Town, as I love to, but I had experience in O Town on the weekend. ⁓ you know, just just being a customer. So I just drove down there and the weekends are always busy. ⁓ and the mornings they're always busy. And so go and I get in line. And the two groups ahead of me. were both first timers. And the staff there Saturday morning was great. I heard the exact, you know, I heard exactly what I was supposed to hear. And knowing, you know, how how we train and what the offs teams, you know, all the welcomes and the here's what we do. We're scratch made and and just the whole spiel. And it's all in in terms of like a quick service in and out, it's a long, it's a long engagement. It it takes a minute for that to happen. But As soon as they sort of moved on, bang bang, they were like honestly, the order was almost done by the time the last little bits of the engagement, you know, were sort of wrapping up, it felt like. And so I think it's just choosing where where the right moments matter. And I think sometimes that's what a in in search of operational efficiency, that's what's get lost. That's what gets lost, right? You overoptimize and you lose those few moments because it's not it's hard. Jeff Perera: Yes. Aaron: It's hard to figure out where it counts the most, but I think the brands that do it the best find those brand moments and that's that's where they don't compromise. Jeff Perera: Yeah, I believe that taking a few extra minutes to have a conversation with a person who clearly wants to have a conversation with you at the register is okay. You know, you have to be vigilant of nonverbal cues, you have to understand a little bit of like social back and forth, 'cause, you know, maybe that person doesn't want that dialogue and you gotta move faster through it and just take the order and move on, but that person sees that as good service, right? So I think it's really meeting the customers where they're at in that moment. But once you've tendered that total and you're moving into that transactional component of taking someone's money for services, that service needs to move fast. Like that's where it's like bang, bang, bang, get your cream cheese, get your drinks, get your in and usually that's pretty quick. Aaron: ⁓ yeah, and it was just as an example. Well and the and the funny thing is is as I get up there, like my my transaction was a quarter of the time. And I will say as a customer, I could see where somebody might not want to wait through those two things. But honestly, as a customer, if you're if you're hearing a positive engagement, it's kinda hard to get upset. Like, you know, you're waiting and yes, I know what the I know what this place is, I love it, I'm Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Aaron: No, you know, third time this week I'm here. I don't need to hear the story. You're getting the story. You're preventing me from ordering. I get that. But you're not it's not like just waiting for no reason, right? You kind of have a little bit of a tolerance for the fact of like this is great. You respect, I think you respect what you're hearing in front of you to be like, great, they're having a good experience. Like that this company and that staffer is put some extra time into making sure they're having a great experience. And it's kind of like you chill out, you chill out a little bit. Right, as a as somebody who's waiting at that moment. Where is it? The pickup line, not at all. Zero chill. Zero chill loud. Jeff Perera: I often get ⁓ no. You're just waiting for like you're just waiting for your name Aaron and you grab your stuff and go, Yeah. I talk with a lot of franchisees. We have conversations with new franchisees, with existing franchisees, and the question I get the most from prospective franchisees is when are we installing kiosks in the store? We get the kiosk question all the time because the kiosk people tell you that Aaron: Exactly, exactly. all the time. All the time. Jeff Perera: People spend more time with the menu, when they spend more time with the menu, they spend more money. And those people that spend more money are guests that you want, right? So the kiosk kind of pitch is your guests get to spend as much time as they want with no pressure from anyone around them and they're gonna end up spending more money. But I love our app because it's a personal kiosk. And so I was just thinking about your example. You waited in line. Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: You had two guests in front of you, both were new, so the transactions took a little bit longer than usual, like it was a longer engagement than usual, and you still stood in line. You could have very easily taken your phone out, placed your order, Aaron: Above all people I could have could have I could have opened up the POS from my phone and and rang it up myself. Just being clear. Multiple ways I could have captured my own sale. Jeff Perera: Of all the people, you could have done that. You could have you could have done so many things, but you chose to wait. Because I think there is something special about going to your bagel shop, engaging with the team that knows you, that sees you, and feeling the value in that. So I don't know, I I think when you think about speed and efficiency, kiosk sure. But like our mobile app is great, driving that experience to be fast. Like you can come in, come out, don't have to talk to anybody, you know. But I think when you go into a store you want to talk to somebody. Aaron: Kiosks are a very interesting thing. And I get asked this question all the time too, normally from other I w I was doing a ⁓ having a conversation around just restaurant technology a week or two ago. And and the kiosk question came up. And certainly us is building our own technology and really sort of being very specific and targeted around how we approach that. It's an interesting question to sort of throw our way. And we have drive-throughs, and not that drive-throughs kiosk, but like obviously we don't have a problem with some. disconnected sales flows and stuff like that. And so when that cash question comes up, the first thing I always say is like you like we listen, we have a speed option. The speed option is the app. There's nothing you can't do in the app that you can do in store. And so like that's your speed run option if you really want it. And you're not going to get faster than that. But when I really think about answering the question, I think okay, why don't we have kiosks? I was trying to give a you know a meaningful answer, other than we just don't do that. And where I always get to is I can never think of an experience that I've been to where I used a kiosk where I could say that was a great experience. They're not bad and I'm not knocking them in the general sense. Like there's places that I just wanna get my food and and get out. But I never walk away saying it was a great experience and that when I've never walked into a first time restaurant and hit like a kiosk, or honestly, even ⁓ And I'm a big fan of this overall, but like the QR codes and the tables, more of a sit-down, different service model, but like the QR code menu on a table. It works, but like I've never been like, this is great. Like this is great. But you know, a waiter walks up and is positive and hands your menus, and the menus engaging visually, right? ⁓ or you get a spiel. Jeff Perera: Mm. Aaron: ⁓ from the waiter or in like our case, you know, the front register staff is, ⁓ you've never been here before. Well, let me tell you. Like that for a first time experience, that's super important. And I would just worry that the kiosk is is sort of a ⁓ a pitfall on that path. Like you come in, you really should get a first time experience, but you slide over to the kiosk and it's a park. Jeff Perera: Yeah. Then Yeah. I think it I think it's primarily supposed to minimize payroll on order taking, which is allegedly a less exp less important role in a store. I don't know if I believe that to be true. But and then it also gives more options for throughput, so the lines are shorter. So I don't know. I I had a good ki I had a a really good kiosk experience in my travels ⁓ you know, there was ⁓ kiosks at the Austin Airport as I passed through. Every little restaurant and like f service area had these little hubs and they were all interconnected and you could essentially buy anything you want and pick it up right off of a counter. It was very self service and that was nice because it's the airport. I don't really want to talk to anybody anyway, so that's fine. The other place that I've Aaron: ⁓ I've seen that. Jeff Perera: Have seen kiosk recently is at ⁓ Shake Shack, and primarily I've been seeing them pop up on ⁓ viral videos on TikTok and on Instagram where prices are changing based on whether or not people select tips. Have you seen this? ⁓ Aaron, this is crazy. And I don't know if it's crazy, but there's it's wild. I'll I'll send you a link later. But what happens is as you go to place your order, like you Aaron: No Ikees. Jeff Perera: pop in your like your shake or whatever, and then it asks you as you're processing through the tender, do you want to leave a tip? And if you select no, it says please wait, initializing cart, and then it pops up another notification that says something like, your cart has been updated and the prices have all changed. It's like an 8% price increase on the items if you don't leave a tip. Aaron: That's wild. That's wild. Jeff Perera: Yeah. I You know, I it's kinda hard to want to leave a tip for somebody that you don't talk to. Aaron: Well, I mean, we could have a whole episode around tipping culture and and the challenges there. And in the restaurant industry, it's always a double edged sword because there's it's an industry built on this system, and so there's two sides to that coin. You know, you've got the employees that that rely on those tips, and then you've got the customers that are wondering why it has to be this confusing. And so it's it's tough. But what I think Jeff Perera: I know. I don't Aaron: you highlight with that is like kiosks are tough to get right. And I think you can't train a kiosk. And somebody who builds technology like kiosks, I would always shy away from it is let me give you example. It is always so much easier to implement things in our POS than it is to implement things in our mobile app. Because our mobile app has a different job to do. Than than our POS. Our POS has to provide function and in in ease of use. And, you know, I don't have to convince a store employee that I mean, I want to make sure that the experience is good for them using the tools that they have, but like it's a different sort of calculus. Whereas the mobile app is is really filling in that role of that great employee. And is it visually engaging? Is the menu engaging? Do I want to eat this food? Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Aaron: Well, I want to get that coffee, you know, and I hadn't originally. And so when you think about that, that's a really hard job. It is so much easier to train and hire for great personal engagement than it is to like build that into a technology that's by comparison rigid and and not dynamic. So it's I just I just always wonder why people default to it when it's such a different experience. Jeff Perera: ⁓ yeah. That makes It makes so when you just yeah, when you say it like that it makes so much sense because the number of times I've taken the recommendation of someone is very high. Very, very high. When someone's like, ⁓ you should try this, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, that sounds delicious. I'll eat that, right? So that trying to make trying to translate that into a technology, the only time it ever works for me is when I go somewhere and they have like a cinnamon roll pancake or something like that. And there's there's a there's a there's a picture. Aaron: ⁓ yeah. Hi. Well these they're just shooting fish in a barrel for you at this point. This is Jeff Perera: Of a cinnamon roll pancake covered in icing and like that's it's an easy I'm an easy target for that. But my point being, I need the picture. Aaron: But you Yeah, you think about that. You but you think about that though, and like again, going back to my experience at OTAN recently, Tells galore in both of those two transactions. I'm just like, I'm I'm creeping on these transactions. I'm just listening. I'm like, I'm how's the script going? Like, ⁓ yeah, it was like literally like leaning in. ⁓ I didn't say anything though, so I refrained from at least getting involved. Like, that's my favorite. Anyways, the but plenty of like I saw the order grow as the conversation went on because of like this and the flavors and the conversations, and then like, ⁓ flights versus Jeff Perera: Stalker. That's good. Aaron: Like the conversation built the order. But it felt it was very natural. It was all from a, ⁓ that's what that is, or ⁓ these are made in-house too, or whatever. You know, it didn't feel like you were there was no selling. It was just information that naturally grew the order. Whereas you know the feeling you're in an app. And I'm not saying that that we don't do this either, but like when a piece of technology is like, hey, big banner shoots across, get this too, you know, you're like, you have a different emotional response. Jeff Perera: Yeah, for sure. Aaron: And they're all equal and or they're all they're all valid, I should say. Not equal, but they're all valid, right? I'm not knocking anyone, but just that's the power of a human and the experience. Jeff Perera: Yeah, that experience is pretty powerful and I mean it's so powerful that Sweet Green and McDonald said it's the difference maker in making quarterly sales. It's crazy. Aaron: So how do you how do you approach it? Like I always love asking these questions because you've, you know, it's you've gone from Danielle and I in a in a room to everything that we have now. Like in that journey, as you guys are building your first teams in a Koei, and then obviously training and and building SOPs broader for the system now. Like, how do you guys try to zero into those processes that matter and those processes that can be optimized or can be made a little more brutally efficient, like how do you guys do that? You're looking at these things. Jeff Perera: Yeah, it's it's a it's a challenge because I think both of us are so built for speed and like this execution of speed that we'd really default a lot to that. Like good service is fast service. Especially in the early days when it was just the two of us with minimal resources around us, it was like how fast can we clip through? But what we're finding is the experience and the engagement with the guest, the make them regulars idea is so much more powerful than the speed. So as we've already we kinda talked about this a little bit already, it's like I think that's like if you can connect with the person, understand who they are, what they're looking for, and make them feel seen, they're going to have an exponentially better service experience. They're probably going to spend more money and they're more likely to return. than if you're just moving them through the line fast. Aaron: Did you guys ever have like a and again I'm talking about early days, so pre a lot of what we have now? Did you guys ever have a like a process or an internal? Did you ever try anything that you then rolled back? You're like, that was terrible. Like, like whether it be layout of the store or like we'll have people grab their own stuff here. Like, was there any little thing that you tried and you're like, that was terrible? We should have never done that. Jeff Perera: ⁓ yeah, so in the original location yeah. Yeah, no no. In the original lo in the original store, if you've never visited the ocoee location, the POS counter is flipped from like a from the shape that you see in our existing store. So you have like a ⁓ I don't wanna I don't call it like an inverted L. So the guest is sort of in the like Aaron: No thought required. Immediately ideas. Jeff Perera: middle of the register island. So the like where the where the L comes together, they kinda sit in the corner. ⁓ Visually I don't know if this is making sense. But in our exist in our new stores you end up with this the team is in the middle, right? You have like that the L shape around the kitchen. Does that make sense? Am I explaining this or should I start over? Aaron: I think so. I think so. Jeff Perera: I guess my point is is when you walk in when you walked into Okoe in the early days, we had to make a decision on where the transaction started. Did it start with bagels or did it start with the other stuff? And the other stuff was like cream cheese, which was at that time it used to be prepackaged, it was in a cooler, there was bottled beverages, coffee station, yeah, so it was kinda you had to make a choice and what we determined was that the best thing to do was for the the customer to select all their bagels. Aaron: Yeah. I remember that. Jeff Perera: And then everything kind of moved down to the end. And at the end of the transaction, right at the register, you had the cooler, and whoever was on the cashier could say, Okay, here's our cream cheese choices. You can pick one and then be able to ring it up really fast. Cause we didn't even track which bagels we were selling back then. It was just like, ⁓ how many do you get? Six, twelve, bagel, bagel, bagel, bagel. Yeah. And it was so easy. So it didn't matter what was in that bag. All that mattered was the count. Like, ⁓ you six, you got eight, you got twelve, whatever. Aaron: Bagel, bagel. Very very easy to ring up. Jeff Perera: And then say, ⁓ cream cheeses are right there, grab the ones you want. What'd you get you like men cheese? ⁓ put another one in. Put another one in. Aaron: Should have just sold ⁓ by the pound. Could've had a scale right there. No, it's like yeah, exactly. It's like being at the grocery store. Jeff Perera: So funny. Did you see that meme that ⁓ guy walks in and he says ⁓ I need to put twenty bucks on pump too? And the girl like leans over and she says, Sir, ⁓ this this is soft serve ice cream place. He goes, I know. And then you see him underneath it, just like cranking down on it right into his mouth. It's so funny. That was great. But yeah, I think the the flow of customers and like how that interaction took place was something that Aaron: Yeah. That's great. Jeff Perera: Took us a little bit to figure out like operationally. And as we added more things to that cooler, you know, it was plain and chrive and onion at one point is all the cream cheese we had. Cold brew was the only coffee option. So there wasn't a lot of choice. And so that interaction could be fast. And then as soon as it became like, ⁓ I don't know, and they're looking at the cooler and there's like eight cream cheeses and we got apple juice and orange juice and all this other stuff and it's like, ⁓ my gosh, like how do we move these people through the line faster? 'Cause they're literally clogging this up, like at the register. So Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Perera: I think the the transition there was something that we worked on. I mean, we did a lot of that, like, especially with bake flow. And like that was a for us, I mean, when I was hand rolling the dough, ⁓ it was man, it was brutal because we would take that morning bake, knock it out, fill the rack, and then start rolling dough 'cause I was the only person. And then as we built a team and other people were doing the task, we realized we could stretch that bake out. Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: Like I could have somebody baking later into the day while I was rolling dough. And so that's where we've ended up in this kind of landed now where we are with we bake throughout the day. Because we can do that task simultaneously. We can roll dough for the next day and still boil and bake throughout the day for today's guest. So, you know, and that d drove sales. I mean, like, in your mind as like a business owner, you're like, I need to reduce my expenses. I don't want to hire somebody to do a job that I can do. I can roll the dough. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Jeff Perera: I wasn't bake all the bagels and then roll the dough and then turns out well, if you bake bagels all day long and they're hot, people buy more. Aaron: So I never knew that. I never knew that that was part of the history that I I always I always thought it was more intentional, but it was really just sort of it sounds like it's more of a happy accident. I mean, obviously the sales aligned to like you capitalize on that quickly once you once you saw it, but like it was more of a function of hey, he can this other role can go slower and sort of spread it out. Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Aaron: Like I say, 'cause I have parallelism now. Like I can I can do two things, versus like, hey, I'm gonna bake everything, complete that task, move on. Yeah, that's fascinating. Jeff Perera: Start the next one. Yeah. It was a it was actually my friend George who came in you know George came into the shop one day and for whatever reason we were just like slower on the bake, I don't know, and he's sleeps in, so it's ten, ten thirty, he rolls in and he gets a hot bagel. He was like, ⁓ man, this is ridiculous and then like of course the next like couple of days later after that it wasn't like it wasn't ho ⁓ wasn't up and hot 'cause, you know, we're just Aaron: I've been George. Did you try to time it? Yeah. Jeff Perera: He did, he tried to time and he's like, I came the same you know, George is unique in that respect that he would specifically show up at the same time. He's like, I showed up again at ten thirteen, why was it not hot this time? And so, he just kept saying, It's like I would just if you could send me an alert of when my sesame bagel was hot, I would love that. Send me a hot alert. And so, yeah. He's always talking about that. And, you know, he's like, I think you really should spread the bake out. And we're like, Yeah, you know that I think we could do that now because we have a baker that's not Jeff. Aaron: Yeah. Try. So ahead of his time. Jeff Perera: Like there's someone back there that can do it. Like we've trained someone, they understand the standards, expectations, and so I think that really gave us an opportunity to explore this idea of like we can be more just in time. We can get really close and you know, it's I mean it's become the whole model. Aaron: Yeah. But that's a great sort of highlight of the fact of sort of being experience first in the mindset. Because you you did not, you stumbled not on an optimization, but on an experience win. Because, like you said, now you've got two people working sort of in tandem. Now one job got a little Jeff Perera: Yes. Aaron: Easier, I guess, just because you're not like trying to crunch and and like do a whole day's worth in the morning. But the other option you could have just had is like, I'll roll, you bake, bake as fast as you can, finish it, get off the clock, I'll keep rolling, or we'll both be done early. Like there's an optimization there that would have been an actual optimization, but you guys chose the experience instead. I mean, thank goodness you did. But it it's a highlight of sort of like having the right mindset when you came in. Jeff Perera: Yeah. Well It's it was always about the experience and you know, from our transition from b baking at home to baking in a store, the experience became like don't sleep in. Like I I would be on the counter up front, rolling dough. It's literally nine fifteen, we've been open for two and a half hours, I've got no bagel left. Like done. It's like sold out, nine fifteen, two hours, like eighty dozen, 'cause we'd have this leg line and and the don't sleep in came from this idea of like, haha, like Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: You know, don't sleep in because guests would be like, ⁓ man, I slept in, can't come in. So it was more of like a if you aren't in the line, you're going to miss it, right? And then we started hiring more people and we expanded our capacity and we bought an extra refrigerator and we started doing all this stuff and suddenly we had more bagels. And instead of selling out at 9 15, we're selling out at like 10 30. And then we're selling out at eleven thirty, and then we're making it to like the afternoon. And so if I was waiting to roll the dough when the bake was done, You know, we got to a point where the bake wasn't done. We always had dough available. We always had product for our guests to buy because that's why you're in business. Like you wanna meet the demand and meet the you know, the the guest needs. And so I think part of that also came in tandem with this idea of like increasing capacity and really growing the amount of bagels we made, 'cause it was fine to do eighty dozen or ninety dozen, but when we got to the point where we could do one twenty. You know, now it's like routinely two hundred and twenty on a Saturday or a Sunday, you know, for for most stores from a prep perspective and you know, they'll sell through they'll sell through like a good majority, eighty percent maybe of those, ninety percent of those. So it's crazy. It's it's it's an insane like thought to look back and be like, ⁓ yeah, our capacity was like ninety six dozen in the past. Like or what like how is that real? Like what it what what did we even do? Like what was what did that look like? And then I remembered we ⁓ yeah, we Aaron: Už insane. Jeff Perera: hand rolled all that dough. And Aaron: Well, it highlights the importance of of the experience. And I'll I'll throw out another fact that sort of underpins that a little bit in that when we look at our customer data, and I I just I f I always I've always found this fascinating, but when look at our customer data across all of our stores, a Ocoee always looks different. So your guys' store, the first store, always looks different in that the customers behave differently. They show up earlier. They they generally buy in l larger quantities. ⁓ same total actually, I mean, and just just to be clear for those that don't know all the the math that that Jeff and I know, ⁓ a ocoee's not like the number one volume store or anything like that. Obviously a very one of our top stores, but not even threatening to be like the highest volume store it was in the early days, not anymore. There's so many stores that have come along and just, you know, been huge stores as well. Yeah. Jeff Perera: Better real estate, bigger up yeah, bigger space to work in. Yeah, there's so many reasons why, but yeah. Aaron: Correct. But what's interesting is that they come in way earlier and they buy generally a Ocoee always is very high in like half dozens and full dozens when people order. And when you when you look back, you realize it's because that initial experience has just stuck and it's stayed. And i you know, people still come in early because they don't want, you know, they still don't want to sleep in. They don't like there's no risk of bagels running out. Danielle would never let bagels run out at Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Never. No. Aaron: At a Ocoee that's not even humanly possible anymore. But but the costumer base still behaves that way because that was the experience that not only they were sort of called you know trained on a little bit just from because that's what it was, but I think it's also part of the culture of a Ocoee It's it's it's the experience that they're used to, it's the experience that they bought into and they like. And so they keep doing it. Even though I think all of them know I don't have to get there at 9:30 anymore. I can easily roll in at 11:30 and get everything I want. Jeff Perera: Yeah. Aaron: ⁓ but it just hasn't changed. And I've I've always sort of found that funny in that it's it really highlights the fact that I think if like that's how you build regulars and that's how you build experience is you know, you you give some people something that they want and they will commit to it and they will stick with it and they'll enjoy it and that'll be a part of their life. Jeff Perera: It really makes me think about how culture is created. It's not something Yeah, ⁓ yeah, yeah. We I mean Aaron: With customers. We talk a lot about in store, but we don't talk in like as an industry enough, but like how do you create culture with customers? Jeff Perera: Yeah. And it's it's about routine, it's about the things that become important to them and it's getting there early, getting their bagels. You know, I've been in the store the last I don't know, over the last like ten days I've been in the store probably like six times working like either early bake or supporting. Like last Saturday popped in and I think I ran into so many of our customers that were like have been a part of the journey from the early days and They did exactly that. They had a bag full of like twelve and some cream cheeses and they're like stocking up for the week. And that's just part of the there's no you you come every day. Come every day. Come every day, get a hot one. Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: Which again you don't have to. I don't wanna ruin any there's no need. You come every day. But but that was the, you know, I'm sh I haven't looked at these numbers recently, but ⁓ I'd be curious to see how your ⁓ what was it? Mondays, right? ⁓ I'm curious to see how Ocoees Mondays have recovered because way back in the day it was Monday, right? W that you guys were not open. Jeff Perera: ⁓ we were closed we were closed Monday and Tuesday. And Monday was a really slow day. I mean, ⁓ yeah, I had this whole like hypothesis that if like why would I open seven days a week if I don't meet capacity for my business on like Wednesday and Thursday? Like I've when I can sell out on a Thursday, then I'll open on Tuesday. Like I'll make more you know, it just but does it's not true. It's not how it works. And we Mondays are great now. It's like it's it's a busy day. Aaron: Money. Yeah. But I wonder how many people are still just in there like those OG customers are like they just don't think to come in on Monday 'cause they've it was never open. Even though it's been years now. Jeff Perera: ⁓ yeah. I remember in the first probably in the first six months that we were doing it, I would see people coming like, ⁓ I'm so glad you're open. I'm like Like, you know, we open on Monday and Tuesdays six, eight months now. You know, they're like, ⁓ no way and and yeah, I think if they built this routine where they would come on a Wednesday or Thursday, they would stock up or they would ha yep, a hundred percent. Yeah, no doubt. I think it would be really interesting to see if we could pull data on our Monday and Tuesday guests Aaron: Stuck up for the week. Sack. Jeff Perera: newer than Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Yeah, yeah. What's the mix of like new versus original? And I guess originals we'd have to like pin them down to that window of time when we were only open, you know, for five days a week. But be then be that's an interesting yeah. It took a while. It takes a while to change people's behaviors and routines though. So it's a ⁓ Aaron: Hmm. Yeah. Like what the mix is, like new versus Jeff Perera: It's just an it's an i it's a it's really interesting to see the way people work and the way they that they want to go about their life in this world, right? Aaron: So s I agreed. And circling back to sort of your initial point with you know like this earnings call from from McDonald's is how what I find interesting about that is and I don't I don't want to throw shade or anything like that, but like I feel like the McDonald's experience is understood. Let's just put it that way. I don't think I think most people know what they're getting with McDonalds. You know, they're like They know what that experience is. It's been pretty s standardized. What do you think? Like, what do you think they're doing for it to dip? Like what obviously you talked a little bit about some of the operational, like just making things harder in store, but is it that, or do you think that they're the whole store experience is changing? And customers are like, hey, it's not that, you know what I mean? How much of it is good versus bad? Like this is a great experience versus is it just a ⁓ whatever experience and how much of it is not quite a quality measure and more like what's going on here? This isn't the same place. Like you know what I mean? Like it could be it could be the same level of experience, but different. And that different is what's bad versus a drop in quality. Jeff Perera: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I know I know what you're saying. A couple of things come that I think about with McDonald's is they do a lot of business through drive through. And part of and I don't I'd have to look at the actual earning report, I just looked at the kind of notes. ⁓ they the CEO stated that there was an additional labor component added to manage the new refreshers and dirty sodas. So I could to think about a a barista making a new drink, it takes time for them to learn the recipe, to memorize it, to build efficiency. And so I would think that probably in this first quarter, you be there probably was legitimately a like a slowdown in actual service. And that guest I don't think understands that that slowdown was happening because there were new items added. They just Aaron: ⁓ yeah. Jeff Perera: pulled up to the window and their food wasn't ready and they waited a little longer and now they were late for work or now they were late to pick up their kid or their kids screaming in the back. Whatever, who knows what the reason was, but I think that probably was a direct like impact from a new operational component. You know, slower drinks or whatever that looks like. I mean those like d those like beverage fountain machines, when they put the like medium cup underneath it and push medium, it runs. Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: to fill specifically or perfectly on a medium cup. I I i it's like you don't have to look at it. You just put the cup, you push the button, you do the next thing, and then you go back and pass the cup along. It's fascinating. They're like Yeah. Aaron: think that's one of the things that I've enjoyed about where we sit today. And it's always a journey, but We our system is more resilient to changes like that, mainly because it's less overall optimized. You know, you really can't compete with these machines that have spent decades and decades perfecting with tons of resources perfecting them. But that's kind of what's nice about a ⁓ being a a younger brand, still still figuring things out and still building things and you know, in that st phase is that. mean, we've done the LTO calendar that you and marketing put out still makes my head spin. I only have to follow it along just so I'm aware of what's out there. I have no like active role in this and I feel like it's a full time job just to keep track of all that menu innovation. But whenever I'm in store when we roll things out, the store teams are not phased It's like, ⁓ we do cold foam now. There's a whole process for that. It's like a two step process. Like whenever you like great, where do I put stuff? It's just Jeff Perera: Yeah. Yeah. Aaron: They're really resilient to things. And I think part of that is because it's we're still at that stage where it's an active craft for a lot of our staff. You know, I would make an equivalent argument that I bet, I don't know, it's probably unfounded, but I would bet like a Starbucks or like a Dutch Brothers would handle, you know, some drink variation pretty well. I mean, those are pretty. They're they're crafting a lot of d ⁓ a large menu, a lot of different things, a changing menu. So there's some there's some advantages to being a little less efficient and a less rigid. Jeff Perera: Yeah, I mean I'd really ⁓ it kinda makes me want to go back now to see the first quarter that McDonald's introduced their coffee program that was beyond like just black coffee where they had like espresso and frappuccinos in the store. 'Cause I bet you you saw I bet you there was the same type of operational efficiency dip there. Yeah. I think you're right. There's something to that. I something that I you know, maybe this is the last point because I just think it makes such made so much sense to me. In the sweet green notes, like the Aaron: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. I'm sure. Jeff Perera: CEO had mentioned that part of their challenges was they need to be operationally ready and they specifically stated like rush ready. They do a ton of business at lunchtime and so if they didn't have everything prepped and peaked and ready to go and I think about how our systems build for our teams to be rush ready and that bake process and like as we're dropping these bakes and it's building and building, it's kind of a it's kind of neat to see Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: How we've tried to support the teams with systems that create a mechanism for them to be ready for the business. Aaron: 100%. And and I as you say that, I just think about the fact like that is the business. It's not a mode. Like our stores have, I mean, it's different for each store. We just talked about the Ocoees generally like an hour earlier than everybody else, but but the the shape of the day is the same. Like there, you know, the flow of a day at a Jeff's Bagel run is is very clear. And the the early hour, you know, the the rush hours, there's a very big difference between volume at you know at peak hours to ⁓ the other side of the day. And that's just part of life. Like the whole the whole system has to be built around that. Jeff Perera: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well when I Yeah, when I talk to franchisees about our like AUVs in our stores and the number of hours that we operate, like we're a one shift model operating from six thirty till two every day and we average like maybe one point two million in our store, right? The reality is that you're doing the majority of that one point two between like seven and eleven. Just super compressed. Soper. Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Perera: Super compressed, giving you like a rush feeling all the time. It's like go, go, go, go, go, and then it stops. It's really interesting, yeah. I know. Aaron: But it's I I I enjoy seeing the cadence in stores because yes, maybe at peak peak, right? Like that time frame on a Saturday, it truly feels like a rush, but out and and that's when it's like, Okay, this is this is a top line day. This is like a you know, one of our best it's it's up there with our best days, but in general, stores don't really I don't think stores would call it a rush. It's the morning. Jeff Perera: No, they just it's just the morning. Yeah. Aaron: It's the morning versus the afternoon, like that's their shift. They come in and they've got their things, and the day is built around that service model and being ready at that moment to serve that way at that moment. And and like you said, it's and I will say this as a compliment to our stores. We don't do volume-based ticket times. So, like, you know, we expect our stores to deliver that, you know, that three minute ticket ⁓ with a store full of people. Jeff Perera: Yeah. Aaron: Or one person in line that just sort of, you know, snuck in in the last thirty minutes of the shift. It's the same expectation. and and our stores do it. They do it, just put in it blunt. Jeff Perera: Yeah, like eighty five plus percent of the time. Yeah, they nail it. Yeah. from a from a data side for you, you must love seeing that like super consistent bell curve though. Like you just gotta shift it in the time window. That it's so easy. Aaron: Which is incredible. Great. It's great. It's well, this I had I had a conversation ⁓ it's kind of going back to that other interview that I was saying about ⁓ about sort of restaurant tech and we were talking about you know the holy grail is prediction. Everybody wants, you know, if you could predict things and things like, you know, your your volume predictions and the lottery would all be great if we just knew what the future was gonna hold at every minute. But what you end up encountering is Like there's a theoretical limit of just how stable your sales are. And when you do the things that we do and you compress that service window down and to a couple hours of the day, and that's your whole day. And kind of going back to the conversation we're talking about, experience, like everything has to be geared towards that moment. Provide the best experience that you can, but also acknowledging that like there's a limit that you just can't predict. And it's like for us, we you know, maybe the peak moves by 15 minutes or 30 minutes, which in terms of like customer behaviors, nothing. That's sort of in the noise. But when you're trying to hit that sweet spot of two hours of peak experience, you know, something's shifting, you know, 20 customers shifting 15 minutes. Jeff Perera: Mm mm. Aaron: Could change the whole morning. And so the team's got to be ready. The systems and the processes have to be ready. And that's we spend so much time focusing on that. Jeff Perera: It's the Yeah, no doubt. I mean it's even in the stores they become the teams become so used to when a a business pattern is about to start that they'll manage breaks and lunch mu periods around it. You know, the bakers are gearing up at different times. It's it's it's a really interesting dance to watch from a distance. Aaron: It is. And from a data perspective, that's what I to your earlier point, that's what I love so much about it, because it feels not even sensible to be trying to analyze the things that we're analyzing. Like, what if 20 customers, you know, show up again, show up 15 minutes later and this this it it you know, the little bump is here versus here. I I'm talk I'm not talking about days or I'm not even talking about hours. I'm talking about like 30 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And I just think to myself, like, When I say I'm gonna go out and pick up bagels in the morning, I'm not accurate in my own life to 15 minutes. I mean, who knows? Maybe, you know, there's a bicycle in front of my car, I gotta move the bike, and it takes a couple of minutes, you know, as a traffic light. Yeah, exactly. You know, okay, if I'm at Hughes, there's there's like there's so many things that that factor in that this this challenge and just this effort to try and Jeff Perera: Somebody somebody slapped in, so you got a yeah, yeah, yeah. Aaron: ⁓ Perfect It is is a fun journey. I'll say that. It's a fun journey. And I think we've we've done some neat things in that in that arena. Love to see how stores react with it. And it just yeah, it's wild. Jeff Perera: It is. Well, we're definitely gonna be put to the test this week in a lot of markets. Kids are back in school, so people are building their routines again and stores the business over the last like ten days has definitely ticked up. I think people are starting to come out of their summer like habits and routines and build back into that school routine and it's definitely coming. The guests are on their way back to ⁓ getting back into your bell curve. Aaron: Hey, we've got a new college town store that is ⁓ is ready to go. So I can't wait to see what happens there when w on moving day. Jeff Perera: moving it's gonna move in weekend. It's yeah, I'll be up there. I'm actually moving Jack back up so I'm gonna I'll pop in on Friday and Friday yeah, Jack's going back up on Friday, so we'll see. yeah, it's coming up. Yeah, it's like yeah, like Friday, tomorrow. So it's go time. I know. Well, this has been a fun conversation, Aaron. I think it's interesting. I don't know if anybody else will think it is, but I I've enjoyed it. Aaron: ⁓ you are, that's right. Is it this weekend is is moving? Wild. Jeff Perera: ⁓ bake fresh, bring joy, build community, and we'll talk to you again next week. Bye.