Latest / Recruiting Evolution / Industry Spotlight | The New Sales Playbook: Combining Human Skill and AI-Driven Tools with Shad Tidler
Transcript
- Shad Tidler [00:00:00]: This whole AI thing, they're taking over. Right. I remember people saying the same thing. And when the Internet came out and then now, like, think of how we function. It's hard to remember back to when that was there. And I see AI starting to become that. Like, I feel like we've gotten through that initial part of the curve and that's what's really kicking it off. And it's like anything. Shad Tidler [00:00:18]: It's more and more things are getting tested. You're seeing, like you said, that more and more applications are coming out. It's like the wild west of things right now. But I think that's what's starting to drive. It is now. It's out there. It's not going away. It's being talked about. Shad Tidler [00:00:31]: People are starting to see changes in benefits. And now the curve's starting to get more and more people on the upswing. Kortney Harmon [00:00:39]: Hi, I'm Kortney Harmon, director of industry relations at Crelate. This is the Industry Spotlight, a series of the Full desk experience, a Crelate original podcast. In this series, we will talk with top leaders and influencers who are shaping the talent industry, shining a light on popular trends, the latest news, and the stories that laid the groundwork for their success. Welcome back to another episode of the Full Desk Experience. Industry Spotlight. Welcome back to another episode of the Full Desk Experience. For those of you who have been tuning in, we have been talking a ton about AI and I know you're getting your fill. But today we're going to go a little bit deeper on one of the sides of your business. Kortney Harmon [00:01:26]: So we're going to take a deep dive into the crossroads of AI and sales leadership. Today I am joined by Shad Tidler, who is going to give his insights on how artificial intelligence is fundamentally reshaping sales and sales operations and team structures and strategic decision making and what exactly sales leaders need to hear right now. So, Shad, I am so excited for you to be joining me today. Tell our audience a little bit more about you. You and I have gotten to chat for a few times. We get to see each other here in like 10 days. So I'm so excited to meet you in person. But tell our audience a little bit more about you and Lucien. Shad Tidler [00:02:04]: Thanks, Kortney. Thank you for having me on, by the way, with Irwin Harris. So I'll start with Lucian High level. What we do, we do sales and sales leadership and sales management consulting, coaching and training. What does that mean? Kind of four big areas where we help clients. Number one is strategy. So really understanding. Okay. Shad Tidler [00:02:22]: Yes. A lot of people Have a goal for where they want to go in the next few years, but what does the long term look like and why and how do you start to break that down and go. Let's get specific of where we need to go in the strategies from new versus growing existing market share. What are the threats out there, the challenges that we have to work through, understand what is our ideal client profile and are we going after that structure now we've got the goals, we're going, okay, what is it we need to put in place to make sure we consistently go there? And we're tracking and measuring the right things and readjusting along the way and having the checkpoints and knowing what those are and then having the tools to be able to do that and even looking at our staff and going, hey, do we have the people we're going to need or is that going to change over time to hit those goals? Third area is staff is taking a look at current teams from a selling side and going, what skills and tools do we have? What's there? What's missing? You know, instead of just let's throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and hope something sticks, let's understand what's there, what's missing so we know, okay, hey, whether it's intentional or we've just kind of figured out online, this is the stuff that's working, this is stuff that isn't, and here's why. And here's what we need to focus on the best help and to make the traction to get to the goals. And then finally is the actual training and coaching piece, which is putting all that into real life action, not just strategies, but how do you take those to real life conversations and action to help you get along the way. So that's kind of the four big areas where we help team and teams anywhere. Growing from smaller early on, solopreneurs all the way up to large corporations and helping them grow to that next level. Kortney Harmon [00:03:53]: I love it. Shad Tidler [00:03:54]: And then for myself, I've been doing this for 11 years. Yeah, a little over 11 years. Was client for three. And I come from a background that I was never intending to do this. I was supposed to be an engineer from Purdue, which worked out perfect. And I realized that was not going to work in college and ended up in the logistics world, operations. And then finally over the sales side kind of fell into it. And I was what we call the wing it star, which was I was doing well. Shad Tidler [00:04:20]: That if someone looked at me, Kortney, and said, how are you doing it? I was like, I don't know, I just kind of do these things they have. I had no. Those four areas that you. That I talked about. I had nothing really set in that or I had pieces of it, couldn't put it together. And once I got help at Lucian is when that started to take off. And then 11 years ago I decided I'm ready to do something different. And leadership here looked at me and said, why don't you come join us? And that's where I've been. Kortney Harmon [00:04:43]: I love it. You speak to my training background. So I love all the things that you're doing. You speak to my type A personality of structure. And so I am excited and I'm excited to hear what you guys have been hearing because oftentimes we don't get a good look outside of our lens. You guys do sales in sales leadership training across many industries. It's not just staffing and recruiting. So you're getting a look outside of the window. Kortney Harmon [00:05:09]: So I love that I get to pick your brain. Thank you for spending the time with me. And I'm. So I'm going to kick us off just with a pretty basic question and tell us about what you're seeing in sales in general and how you've seen it evolve just over the past few years. Shad Tidler [00:05:24]: Okay, so here's what I'll say is there's a lot of fundamentals that are still in place. So if you think of the fundamentals of I've got a product or service and I have to get in touch with the right people who I can have this, the conversations with can make the decisions and differentiate in a way. And Kortney, here's where I'm gonna speak especially to staffing recruiting. There are so many competitors out there for staffing and recruiting. Whether it's another traditional staffing recruiting agency, whether it's they're doing it internal with their own group, whether it's a larger organization or I can't remember the term but like the large kind conglomeration staffing recruiting companies that are out there. Right. There's a lot of competition. So you know, being able to get to those right people but also being able to differentiate in a way where they say I want to talk to you versus giving you the usual stuff I tell people to give them go away. Shad Tidler [00:06:12]: Getting them to start to open up and admit, hey, maybe things aren't working perfect or we need some additional help here. And whether it's doing ourselves or with whoever we're working with, being able to have a process and truly qualify and go is it the right fit for them, the company, potential customer, but also a right fit for us because you can't help everybody. You only have so much time in the day, so you need to be going after the right stuff, being able to get those next steps and close, being able to grow accounts. Right. The fundamental structure pieces are the same, but what I've seen in the last few years is the speed of which things happen has increased dramatically. I mean, I've been 11 years doing this, and just in the last. Probably about four years, five years, you know, with what happened with COVID and then now with the AI revolution really taking place, the speed of information, the speed of things happening, the speed of contact, the information has picked up immensely. At the same time, it's also started to make it harder for people to differentiate and have those conversations. Shad Tidler [00:07:11]: So that's the biggest things that I'm seeing. But also with that comes the great opportunity that you have so much more information and tools at your disposal that can help you make decisions faster, help you do things faster. And if you know, okay, this is what I'm going after and what do I need to do to be able to do that? Kortney Harmon [00:07:30]: There are so many tools, and they're coming out by the day. I run our partnership program to work with integration partners, and it's literally like how many requests we get, what is coming in? And granted, I love that people are being smart to say, how do I get my systems to integrate? But holy shiny object syndrome. They are coming in fast. Shad Tidler [00:07:50]: Where I thought you might go with. Kortney Harmon [00:07:51]: That, but yes, but I mean, it is coming at us fast and furious, and we're trying to navigate. Navigate this with the pedal to the metal. So you mentioned AI. Obviously, that's one of the main topics we're going to talk about. But what was that moment that you realized that AI would really fundamentally change how a sales team operates? What was your, like, aha moment? Shad Tidler [00:08:12]: Yeah, our team here at Lucian probably in the last year and a half, have really started to dive into it. You know, we were hearing things and starting to kind of understand and learn bits and pieces, but dive into it, really. It's funny, it actually just happened for me in the last probably six or seven months is we were putting together a tool that could help us analyze client strategy. So one of the very first things we do with the sales team is we gather. We have a tool that we use that gathers a lot of information on evaluates their current team. Like I was talking about in the staff section of the four areas, we help it Helps us to see, okay, what's there, what's missing. Well, there's a ton of information comes out and I've got 11 years of experience. Folks here, you know, have more, we have some that have less in 11 years, you know what to look for and kind of collate. Shad Tidler [00:08:57]: But I knew there was piece I was missing just because of time, right. Or just because of focus areas, et cetera. And being able to take that and put it into some chat GPT tools that we built and have it analyze and then literally tell us, here's the strategy and the focus for the next three months, six months, et cetera. And here's the opportunities, here's some of the threats, here's the things to consider and be able to do that within eight minutes, seven minutes, probably maybe not even that, you know, that long. When I was looking at that and we started putting that tool together specific to our business and built that, that's when I was like, I mean this is game changing. Just the being able to make those clear distinctions and decisions and focuses in that fast of time, which why probably would have taken me, even with my experience like an hour or two to sit down, really go through and go, okay, this is where we need to go. Based on what I'm seeing, I think. Kortney Harmon [00:09:48]: That'S a very good moment where you're like, okay, this can revolutionize how I work. Because guess What, I got 50 minutes back in my day. What can I be doing to change? And I think that's what our industry is facing today. It might be as something as easy as staffing and recruiting, finding sourcing candidates to be like, AI is doing it for me now. So on average, if you look at staffing and recruiting industry, it takes Maybe they do 11 to 13 hours a week. What does that equate to? How much money are they getting back? It is really eye opening to be like, oh crap, my operations needs to be honed in to say how should I be working differently? So I love it. Talk to me about. You obviously just talked about this. Kortney Harmon [00:10:27]: How has your own approach to sales leadership changed because of AI in the. Shad Tidler [00:10:31]: Mainstream because of some of those tools? It's helping, if I look at myself and our team, it's helping us to make those strategic decisions faster and to really hone in on certain key pieces so certain key challenges and also be able to figure out what are different ways outside of how we've always looked at it. Just being able to take a problem or challenge. This is one of my clients last or a couple of Weeks like they've been struggling to get there. They're hiring a new salesperson, they're struggling to, they're doing the recruiting on their own and they're just struggling to get good candidates in because they have a very technical type background they're looking for. And you know, I've spent According the last 11 years helping clients where we might use a recruiter in certain situations depending on we've done some of that recruiting work ourselves on helping hire for salespeople. But even just being able to put in go, okay, what's different options here? And coming out with some things where it's like, I didn't even think of that right. Or I'm not even sure. Let me read up. Shad Tidler [00:11:29]: Okay. You know, being able to have those resources to really look at problems from a holistic view and to see things where you're, you know, we just have biases in our blinders on. Right. And being able to look outside that and quickly pull that information. So, you know, it's helped from that. I'm running a strategic session with a new client, second session this week. And I used AI to help not only build out the outline, but to look at what's some other ways and ideas of how to solve these problems or challenge or the questions they've got that they're things they're concerned about that they're running up against as they start to enact this three year, five year strategy that they have in front of them. So, you know, it's helping us with that just to fundamentally be able to step back and see things from a real360 and to get that information faster, to help them make decisions faster and to get into action. Shad Tidler [00:12:16]: And then, hey, if this isn't working, okay, we're tracking faster to adjust versus what we might have done a couple years ago. Kortney Harmon [00:12:24]: So we talked about the moment you thought like AI's changing everything. What has been the biggest aha moment in sales for, for AI so far for you as you're working with these clients? Shad Tidler [00:12:34]: Couple of things I'm starting to hear things of, can we use it for better forecasting? And you probably have done this from a, you know, or seen people do this from a recruit, you know, taking a lot of information, data and dumping it in and going, okay, what are the trends? Right? What are the. Where should we be projecting? Are we even on track? Are we off track? Being able to utilize it from that, that's been a big aha. And go, okay, once again, that's kind of like my experience of Being able, you know, it's being able to actually pull that data and collate it. Being able to put it into a format where you can quickly and just very easily see things and start to figure out and project from that. I think of that we're starting to use some tools around roleplay and practice with our clients. So they're getting good. We've been utilizing one called Yoodly that we're testing out, and it's able to not only build specific strategies and role plays and practice in specific industries, but. But it actually is almost like talking to just a regular person. Shad Tidler [00:13:30]: Like, there's a slight, like, you can tell a little difference, but it's getting smarter and faster. And so that's been very helpful because, you know, one of the things with our clients is in between sessions, like, we may meet with them a couple times a month, but they're looking for how can we reinforce and practice. Well, now we're able to give them real life tools that are simulating real life to give them the practice and the reps in between. That is helping them be more effective in their conversations. Kortney Harmon [00:13:54]: I'm not going to lie. And that is one thing people hated the most. I loved role playing sessions. I probably shouldn't at least prep calls, whatever debrief calls, like practicing those because everybody hated talking in front of somebody or like being critiqued. It's much easier to go into a room and have AI pick you apart versus someone else. That's like, h, well, you, you didn't do this well, you didn't do that well. Shad Tidler [00:14:17]: Or you're saying of a group of your colleagues and absolutely. And I mean, yeah. And we always say, you know, yes, you're the exception, Kortney. Like most people don't like it, but we always say it's harder, you know, in these situations by design because we want it to be easier. When you're out there, it's. It's like practicing for sports. I remember growing up playing basketball. Like, the coaches were like, we're going to make it harder here. Shad Tidler [00:14:37]: So when you're in the game, it's second nature. It's easier for you. The same thing. But to your point, it helps, you know, if someone goes, okay, I'm not sitting in front of all my colleagues. And. And it's able to just analyze those things quickly, which has been. It's starting to be a game changer for us and our clients. Kortney Harmon [00:14:51]: I love that. And you can also say, oh, well, I looked at those sessions and practice like, oh, I could look what Susie was saying or hear what Susie was saying. But guess what? Now I don't have to do that. I can still get that same benefit. The, the running thing whenever I was training rookies was you should be in a bullpen and hearing people talk and that gives people anxiety. But at least you have that person or thing to bounce ideas off of to hear how you could do it. Because if you prompt it the right way it would be able to give you a way you could over should have said something. So I love that you brought that up because that is one thing, practice makes progress and that's really what it's about in our industry is how do we get better every day. Shad Tidler [00:15:31]: And here's another thing I'll add to that Kortney, is that if you think of like I'm talking about from a sales side so whether it's an outside salesperson or a, a front end BDR person. Right. Saying appointments or whether it's even sales managers practicing their coaching and their one to ones with people and, and things like that, if you take it over to staffing recruiting is can you have your recruiters practice the conversations they would be having with candidates. Right. How to handle certain situations. Right. Even those managers of how to coach and help them. That's where I see the crossover starting to happen. Kortney Harmon [00:16:03]: I love it. I think it's an amazing idea and I think that would be something great for managers and leaders to think about. So I'm going to switch a smidge. We're seeing that like 21% of companies have really enabled a generative AI for B2B buying and selling as of last year. But adoption is rapidly accelerating in 2025. What do you think is all of a sudden driving that acceleration? Shad Tidler [00:16:31]: It's a learning curve that is starting to be ascended. I don't know if you've ever seen the concept of what is called a change curve. So people foresee. You have and we saw this, I think of the pandemic as far as how people handled the pandemic and shifted through it. I think back to 2008, I wasn't doing this, but I was selling and how I saw buyers react. In the economic downturn of 2008, you're going to have people kind of fall in one of three buckets when something big comes and changes things. Number one is the bucket of we don't know how this is going, what's going on but we're just going to go into it. We're going to keep doing what we're doing. Shad Tidler [00:17:06]: We're going to figure out how to use this to our benefit, to get on the other side of this as fast as possible. That's bucket number one. Bucket number two is we're skeptical. We're a little nervous. We're not sure. We're going to tentatively kind of take a step by step and really analyze before we take that next step. But we're going to still make progress. It's just we're going to slow things down until we really get a sense of what's going on. Shad Tidler [00:17:28]: And then bucket number three is we're going to fight this no matter what until we have to change, until we're just completely behind the curve and we got to do something. I saw the same thing in the pandemic. I go back to 2008. I go back to 2001 when the it.com boom happened, right? Like, all that similar, you know. So that being said, what's happened is, you know, a lot of people who are on kind of the kind of middle group or last group, at first, they're like, they're shocked. Oh, this is happening. What's happening? Oh, my gosh, I don't know what to do. This is just overwhelming. Shad Tidler [00:17:58]: And then became a, well, no, this thing will blow by. Like, it's not going to happen. Or, you know, you got some of that last group who are like, this is going to be the downfall of society. It's going to be Skynet, you know, like the thing from Terminator, right? You got some folks in that group. And then you start to see as they start to go down that curve, because it's starting to happen so fast and they have to adjust. There's some frustrations they're starting to put in place. And it's like, oh, this is so hard. Hard from where we were. Shad Tidler [00:18:22]: This is so difficult to get in place. And then there's a little bit of, will we ever get this? Well, you're starting to see the front groups, and that kind of middle group's already been through that, in my opinion. And now you're starting to see where it's. We're testing more. We're playing with it more. We're seeing what can do. And now you're starting to see some groups integrate. I think what's really happened is that first and middle group have now gotten through those early stages, and now they're starting to test, and you're starting to see more people go, wait a minute. Shad Tidler [00:18:48]: This actually is really beneficial. Wait a minute. We can build it into these things. Doesn't mean it's perfect. You know, like we've tried some stuff like from our own end on some AI, we're like, that tool just isn't working yet. But they're getting past that. Learning curves on the upswing, which goes to integration, where this is just part of it. I'm going to date myself a little bit, but I think back to when I was in college. Shad Tidler [00:19:09]: The Internet came out and email and things like that. And it was similar. It was like, I remember I've heard some familiars go, this whole AI thing, they're taking over, right. I remember people saying the same thing when the Internet came out. And then now think of how we function. It's hard to remember back to when that was there. And I see AI starting to become that. I feel like we've gotten through that initial part of the curve and that's what's really kicking it off. Shad Tidler [00:19:34]: And it's like anything. As more and more things are getting tested, you're seeing, like you said, that more and more applications are coming out. It's like the wild west of things right now. But I think that's what's starting to drive it is now it's out there, it's not going away. It's being talked about. People are starting to see changes in benefits. And now the curve's starting to get more and more people on the upswing. Kortney Harmon [00:19:53]: I think you mentioned it was like in college, the Internet wasn't there. I do recall printing my MapQuest directions. Shad Tidler [00:20:02]: Absolutely. I won't say that my mom, until she passed a few years ago, she was still doing that. Right. You know, so absolutely understood. Kortney Harmon [00:20:10]: But that was something that like now we just live with. It's on our phones, it's accessed. And when I was at Staffing World last year, one of the keynote speakers said AI is now going to be like ambient light. It's going to be there non stop. It's not going to ever go away. And our CEO, he said something the other day and when I was interviewing him and he's like, today's the dumbest day. Or the day that AI will be the dumbest. Shad Tidler [00:20:36]: Because it's constantly learning and it is constantly learning. Kortney Harmon [00:20:38]: And that is like, that's a whole nother reality check too. Like dumbest day today. Shad Tidler [00:20:43]: Those are great ways to put an ambient light. And today's the dumbest day, huh? Kortney Harmon [00:20:47]: It's crazy. Okay, so you've obviously been seeing a lot of people. You guys mentioned, you guys have used some tools when it comes to AI applications and sales. Is there anything that you've noticed or seen that's actually delivered results like roi, like of a tool that you're using, like hey, you gotta use this or anything that comes to mind that it's like or is a good type of tool. Shad Tidler [00:21:08]: I'm hearing and seeing little pieces. The roleplay stuff that we're starting to do with you, Lee and there's a few others out there. Yes. Like we're seeing clients. Kortney Harmon [00:21:15]: What is it called? Shad Tidler [00:21:16]: Yoodli Y O O D L I thank you. That's the one way. And there's a few others out there, but that's the one. We're part of a franchise organization called Sandler Sales Training. That's the one we're adopting as through the franchise system. Others out there, but just having the repetition and being able to adjust it to real world situations and with practice and get feedback right away versus I've got to wait till the next training or coaching session or the next session with like my manager or somebody else. We're seeing that where people are picking up, they're learning how to handle stuff faster and overcome it quicker because of the repetition and learning by making mistakes and going from that. We're seeing some from that. Shad Tidler [00:21:54]: I'm hearing a lot of good things about companies using AI as front end BDRs. You know, some business development reps who are handling those front end calls and conversations. I don't know specific statistics yet because I haven't had any clients yet pick up. But I know there's a company here in Indianapolis that that's like what their business is. I'm hearing of others that, you know, not only is it taking out the cost, but it's faster. More of those meetings are getting booked because they're able to respond quicker now they're seeing higher conversion rates. I look at just from my problem solving like the roi we're getting on being able to, like I mentioned before, do things faster from strategy goals. Just I mean simple things like hey, I've got this idea for writing a session that would help clients. Shad Tidler [00:22:35]: Can I plop some stuff into AI and it structures it out real quick. And then here's the thing we always say is don't take it as gospel, right? Because it's pulling from certain resources, you still gotta review and adjust it. But to be able to structure and do that faster versus me just sitting down with a note in front of me on my computer or a piece of paper and jotting down ideas, right? Those sorts of things we're just seeing. And the biggest thing that I've seen so far is just the time saving and the optimization of that so far has been just unbelievable with it. Kortney Harmon [00:23:04]: And now there's things out there that are agents that work non stop in 24 hours a day when you're not working. And it's crazy. It's crazy how just it's going to make this industry even faster. We talked about how fast it's gotten in the last four years. It's going to be even faster. Shad Tidler [00:23:21]: Right. One of the things with that, Corey, real quick is just it gets your people focused in on the things where they bring the most value because we're able like how we're doing things at Lucia from an operation standpoint with those sales pieces. I look at the three areas where I bring value. Right. With my clients is coaching, training, consulting, growing and helping them in different ways. And then also selling and helping more clients. Right. I'm able to focus on those more because a lot of this stuff that I was doing before is now I can automate it. Shad Tidler [00:23:49]: It's handed off in some way and that's where I bring the biggest value. Kortney Harmon [00:23:53]: I love that. And that actually brings me to my next point. We're talking about obviously tools, but those tools are going to be changing our behavior. I saw a stat that by 2027, 95% of seller research workflows that pre work on the beginning will begin with AI from less than 20% in 2024. How is this reshaping what a good salesperson looks like? Shad Tidler [00:24:18]: Yes. From those tools and front end and having more knowledge. I'm going to go back to what I said at the beginning. Right. When you asked me like what have you seen in the last few years changing from a sales standpoint? The fundamentals still have to be there. So here's what I'm not seeing. I'm going to take it from a different angle. Well, I'm not going to see change because same thing happened through the last few years. Shad Tidler [00:24:38]: People having the skills to be able to get to those decision makers. Now, AI can help with different ways, whether it's automated cadences or reaching out in different ways. Absolutely. But even then your folks got to be able to have the behavior. So know what are the goals when I'm having a first conversation with someone or I get them, whether it's a cold call or it's a plan, like I get a referred in or we have a scheduled time, what's that process where those goals need to look like? What am I trying to achieve to figure out does it make sense for us to meet and talk further to see if we can help or not. Do I have the skill sets and tools that I need? So am I able to actually execute right? Once again, AI will help with the practice and role play, but your people have to have the training and the coaching and developed it enough to have the skill set, to have the conversation and for it to be a conversation. And then third is the mindset is do they have the mindset that I can have these conversations? There's going to be times throughout the sales process you're going to have to ask tough questions, you're going to have to push back on something or you're going to have to go, you know, hey, this is the key question to ask. And I don't know, I'm a little nervous to see how they handle it right or how they handle certain personalities. Shad Tidler [00:25:45]: Ask for what's needed. Those skills and tools have to be developed no matter what to close out that process, be able to qualify or disqualify and be okay with saying, hey, you know what? I don't think we're a right fit here for you. And that's okay. Those are still going to be there. Now the speed of being able to do those things and have those in front of you, have the tools, develop those, that's going to be changed and that is continuing to change. And having that knowledge and information before you call someone and go, hey, you're in the staffing and recruiting industry. Here's some of the things I'm here or hey, I'm in the staffing, recruiting, and you're in the manufacturing world building machines. Here's some of the challenges you're probably running into when it comes to it. Shad Tidler [00:26:22]: Yeah, you're going to have that information, but you still have to be able to have those conversations. Those are skills and tools that still have to be developed that aren't going to change no matter all the things AI is doing and all the things it's going to be able to provide to us. Kortney Harmon [00:26:35]: I love that. I think AI is probably going to give us the data on the front end faster. I think it might be harder to cut through the noise initially with all the AI automated messaging. But you're not wrong. I 100% agree with you. Any industry when it comes to sales is about relationship building. It's the difference that you make. It's the relationships that you build. Shad Tidler [00:26:55]: How do you show up if they go, you show up like one of your competitors and customer potential is going to treat you the same versus if you show up and go, no, I'm showing up in a different way. Well, that's a skill to be developed. Kortney Harmon [00:27:05]: And how you make them feel. Do you think with all of what we just talked about, traditional sales skills, are there any that skills that are becoming more important right now with AI and maybe any ones that are becoming more obsolete. So let's do both sides of that. So what's more important in sales skills? Shad Tidler [00:27:22]: More important. It's becoming more. But it's always been a few things actually. Number one is am I able to build trust early? So they go, you're here to help, not just to sell me, you know, And I truly. Based on how you show up, based on the question you ask, based on simple things like how you build rapport with folks early, that leads into trust. Whether you. I trust you're here to help. So I'm going to share more than I have to to figure out if you can help. Shad Tidler [00:27:46]: Like, like, if you ever think if you go, I really believe this person can help, you start sharing pretty much your whole situation because you're like, I really want you to understand the whole picture so you can figure out how best help or if you can't. Right. Well, that's a skill that has become even more important because of the noise out there. Consultative selling. So not showing up. And I call it showing up and throwing up on people and hoping something sticks. Right. I know it's a kind of a obvious way, but showing up and going, okay, now it's your trust. Shad Tidler [00:28:12]: You know, we build trust. I'm here to help. Can I ask questions and diagnose much like a doctor, and get down to the root of the patient's, you know, underlying condition and then be able to talk about the prescription. This is where AI and just in general, with all the technology we've had the last five, six, seven years, it's become harder because people have a harder time actively listening. They're distracted by device or, you know, they're used to moving so fast that it's counterproductive in that situation. Someone goes, I don't want you to move fast. I want you to understand my situation. And if you move too fast and I feel pressure, I feel like you don't understand. Shad Tidler [00:28:48]: You're going to give me something that's not going to help. Well, those that skills and development, you know, that and then knowing the questions to ask and how do you find out not only what's the underlying condition, but are they truly committed to getting the help they need? Really being able to understand and facilitate decisions. This has gotten harder since the pandemic. It got hard around 2008. It got harder in 2001. Is as soon as there's big economic shifts, a lot of companies start going. We're going to layer that decision process because we don't want to rush and make a decision that's going to cost us with an unknown economy. So we stack more layers of people and levels of decision. Shad Tidler [00:29:26]: Well, great salespeople are great at helping people make decisions. So they've got to be able to understand, like, how do I understand and figure out getting to those decision makers early and then being able to understand that decision process and what criteria is important and help facilitate that to a, you know, either yes, you want our help or no, you don't. Those are skill sets that are getting even more important with all the information and data out there. Kortney Harmon [00:29:51]: Let's talk about any going obsolete. Shad Tidler [00:29:53]: Any going obsolete. Not that it's obsolete, but it can be done too much. Is the research before now. Research before. It's a good thing. There's tools out there. It's. I can't think it's like a first name of somebody, but it's a tool that helps you understand their personality type. Shad Tidler [00:30:09]: Right. And adjust to it. I think through LinkedIn, if I remember right, you know, there's tools to understand background and things that are going on in the industry. Those are good. But the key thing we've got to be careful of is if we have too much information coming in, will start going down one path and go. It's gotta be like this versus truly asking questions and understanding listening. Because even though that may be true for most people in that industry or that market segment, it's not the case for everyone. And so we've gotta be careful getting too biased by the information or using the information to tell them versus ask questions and understand from them. Shad Tidler [00:30:43]: I don't know if you have kids, Kortney, do you? Kortney Harmon [00:30:44]: I do. Shad Tidler [00:30:45]: Okay. How much do they love to be told what to do? Kortney Harmon [00:30:48]: Oh, they don't. You have to. You have to tell them what they need and let them come up with their own decision. Just like selling. Shad Tidler [00:30:55]: Well, exactly. You know, so if we have so much information, we may get caught in that telling of people to show how smart we are, how much we know, and it actually backfires because they're like, I'd rather. Yes, I want you to guide me and know stuff, but I want you to also know my specific situation. So I don't think it's becoming Obsolete. It's being careful of how much is too much versus just having a conversation, understand what's important to people. Kortney Harmon [00:31:18]: I love it. I'm going to take this same topic and I want to put a different lens on it. Shad Tidler [00:31:22]: Okay. Kortney Harmon [00:31:22]: I want to think about. I don't think that it's not been a topic of operations because that's something that I talk about all the time, is operations and process creation. And I mentioned I do have a type A personality, so I love me a good sop and obviously training, like that stuff that you think about. But sales professionals, I saw a stat and I don't. I mean, you could say if you think you agree, but sales professionals can save two hours, possibly a day using AI automated task to help you with your prospecting, collecting data, entering data into your ATS or CRM. And I really want to think about it from an operations perspective. How are you redesigning your team's workflow flows to capture efficiencies? Because in my industry in staffing and recruiting, it's like the KPI hamster wheel. We used to judge people on the number of calls they made. Kortney Harmon [00:32:16]: And to be good, you had to make a hundred calls a day. And to be good, you had to have like a submission ratio of two to one or whatever that looked like. But we're redefining what metrics look like. So how do we think of it operationally? How are we redesigning workflows with AI in our sales teams? Shad Tidler [00:32:33]: Yeah, great question. And so a lot of what we're seeing from a sales side, and this goes into that structure piece I talked, we helped with, is first we got to understand, well, what goals are we going after anyway? Because yes, to your point, you can have, you can have KPIs and metrics all over the place. If it's not getting us to where we want to go or we're not tracking to the right things, it doesn't matter. I always think of the former founder, Paul Lucian of Lucian and association that we're part of. His son Elliot. Larry is a fighter pilot and flew like a 10 Warthogs and I think like a 15s. Anyway, we always asked him, you know, we said, because we all know him really, really well, he's like, how do you know, like what to do when you're in the cockpit? Because there's so many. Like, if you ever seen a cockpit with a fire, I mean, there are dials and indicators. Shad Tidler [00:33:14]: And he goes, there's like two or three indicators. And as long as those are in Line, everything's okay. He goes, now when they go out of line, I know where to look next or what to do next. But those two or three key indicators are the, the most important things because it's for the goal of the flight, that mission, whatever. And we always think of that. That's what we teach our clients. Like, let's first know the goal, the mission, and then now let's make sure we understand the two or three key indicators that are going to get us there. Right. Shad Tidler [00:33:39]: And make sure we're tracking to that, whether it's redesign process, whether it's having a lot of tools. First thing is we got to know where we're going and what's the key things we're going after. Now, where operationally can help is we can take process and drop it into AI and go, hey, here's the sales process now, like, let's utilize that and see, like what. Where you see the holes. Now, we know it from our experience, but there might be some blind spots where things are missing. Right. Or how can we restructure it in this way? Or if this is what they're wanting to achieve. And these are some of the key indicators, like, are we tracking to the right things? Right. Shad Tidler [00:34:11]: Things like that can help us with redesign process. Just simple things of just looking, like you said, where we can automate things, you know, we sell also, we have commissions. So we've been working on tools to automate our commission sheets. Right. So that way it's not so much manual tracking. I'm working with one of my clients now on some tools to take. They are tracking things, you know, because they've got a newer team in terms of prospecting opportunities and those becoming conversations, they're becoming meetings, becoming deals and opportunities. Well, that's a big focus, is they're focused on filling pipeline right now. Shad Tidler [00:34:42]: So we're working on some tools to put in place to not only take. Be able to track that data, but take it and collate and have it into a report on a regular basis and make that happen faster so we can spend more time analyzing versus just getting the right data into place. Things like that is what we're taking a look at and just seeing where can we do things, you know, that stuff that gets repeated over and over again faster and easier and automate that so that we can spend more time, like I said, bringing the value of going through and going, okay, let's take that and take that into what do we do with it? Kortney Harmon [00:35:13]: You mentioned holes. What are the holes that you're Seeing as you're consulting with organizations and their sales teams, when it comes to AI. Shad Tidler [00:35:19]: A lot of it's still around process pieces, you know. So a lot of the big holes in process are things such as we're not being proactive on the front end. Right. So what are the different ways we're trying to get to folks and having a good front end conversation? We're waiting for our people are just waiting for opportunities to come in. Big holes we're seeing is on that front end. We don't understand the compelling reasons that they would make a change. Right. Or from what they're doing now or who they're using now. Shad Tidler [00:35:46]: And is that truly a top priority for the organization? And I'm just kind of going through sales process, Pete. Yeah, that's great. Okay. We found that they're going, yeah, we want help and we believe you might be want to help. What is it that differentiates us from the competition and how do we uncover that? Having the budget conversation, being able to understand, like I mentioned before, is the different decision makers and process and levels and criteria. Right. Those are a lot of the big holes that we continue to see on a regular basis. And taking a look at the holes of just looking at going strategy. Shad Tidler [00:36:16]: I'll take the client I'm working with on Friday. I met with them at the end of June and we really just got everybody into room and said we have the owner CEO there and we got other leaders said, okay, where are we going in the next three to five years? You'd be surprised. Number of organizations that, hey, we kind of got the next year in front of us. But we haven't really sat down and thought through that and gotten clear and gone why and made sure from a top down we're aligned. And then, okay, now let's put the key structure, like the metrics, KPIs, the processes, the staff and people are going to need in place and then what are we going to need to give them to be effective? So all those pieces is what we're taking a look at with our clients. And we're still seeing holes. And that's where, like I said, the data and information is coming faster, like we talked about. But the fundamentals aren't changing because in my 11 years of doing this, those have still been the fundamentals you got to look at with every organization. Kortney Harmon [00:37:07]: I love it. It makes us feel reassured that what we're doing is right for a lot of us. Right. Because I think there's still a lot of questions to be like, am I doing the right thing. It's fomo, but backwards. Like I think I'm on the right path, but has that changed? Shad Tidler [00:37:21]: I can't remember the phrase, but it's often the right answer is the simplest right or the fundamental thing. Kortney Harmon [00:37:27]: Yeah. Shad Tidler [00:37:27]: Even with all the changed things happening is it still goes back to those fundamental items. Kortney Harmon [00:37:32]: Yeah. I'm going to ask another question. You just kind of went through this obviously in staffing and recruiting and how we measure people. Again, in the past it's been a metrics based thing. But when it comes to sales, what are the three indicators or the metrics that you see the most effective teams measuring to know if they're on the right track with AI involved? Because obviously it's changing. It's automating process, it's automating outreach. So we can't judge it based on the number of calls it's making or the number of emails it's sending. We have to base it on something else. Kortney Harmon [00:38:04]: So what are those three top metrics that you're seeing? The most successful organizations using AI tracking. Shad Tidler [00:38:11]: Yep. And I think, Kortney, it's not only just AI, but if you think of it, just a successful sales team in general, number one. Absolutely. Because someone can do a lot of behavior. Like most organizations when we start with them, they're just not doing enough. We got to get them doing more to support the goals. But once they are, it's about, okay, now we're having those first conversations. Are we getting enough new meetings with the ideal prospects or customers to support those? Right, Support the goals. Shad Tidler [00:38:35]: That's the first one. Are we getting in front of the right folks? And enough of those. Kortney Harmon [00:38:39]: So number of first meetings, that's what you're telling me? Shad Tidler [00:38:42]: Absolutely. Kortney Harmon [00:38:42]: Okay, there's one. Shad Tidler [00:38:43]: The second one is, are those meetings now resulting in the ideal opportunities? So number of ideal opportunities that are coming out of those? Because I can go have 21st meetings right this week. But if it's resulting in one or no opportunities, there's something broken in the process. Right. Am I getting the right folks? Am I saying the right thing? Yeah. Am I showing up and thrown up versus being consulted? Am I showing up in a different way that they open up and share? You know, am I not uncovering challenges or things they're running into or goals they want? Right. So that's the second one is resulting in the number of new opportunities that we're looking for to support our goal and then finally is, are we reaching and hitting those goals consistently? So if it's revenue goals, if it's new opportunity goals. If you think from recruiting, if it's ideal candidates that we're getting into the process to be able to present to customers for their opportunities, those are three of the big key ones. And then a lot of times if we're doing those now, it becomes looking at all the subsequent things to go, okay, are we doing it enough? Are we doing it fast enough? Are we being effective enough in what we're doing? Kortney Harmon [00:39:48]: Do you think the timeframe, when you talk about fast enough and AI creating speed, do you think that speed in that timeline accelerates with AI moving forward? Shad Tidler [00:39:57]: It can. Here's the double edged sword, right? We can accelerate it, but are we going so fast that we're not as effective? Right? So if you think of AI can accelerate to getting the, to those conversations with decision makers. But if we show up and go so fast that we're like, they say the first thing and we're like, okay, let's meet now they're going, whoa, whoa, no, that's like me, like I go back to dating days, right? It's like, oh, you're a little interested. Let's go on a date. Like the, oh, whoa, whoa. Same thing with prospects and customers, right? If we're trying to move so fast versus having a conversation, it should be a conversation like your best friend saying, hey, I got a problem or challenge. And it's like, okay, well let's approach in that same way. Are we going so fast in the discovery. Shad Tidler [00:40:36]: A lot of people call discovery phase, but constant selling where we hear a couple problems and we want to jump to how we're going to be able to help them, right? Versus really understand, well, what's the real root of the problem? Like I don't want to go to my doctor and go, I got this lingering cough. And he goes, all right, it's been going on for three weeks. Here, take this. No, he's not like as a, I don't know, there's probably like 20 things that could be like, I want you to ask me questions to really understand. So if you go take this, I'm like, okay, you're prescribing the thing, right? That I feel like it's going to be helping me here, making sure we've got all the right people involved and understand that we got to slow down at those points. So it's kind of that double edged sword. We want to go fast. Yes. Shad Tidler [00:41:13]: To helping some of that front end. Even on the back end. If it's like you guys have contract sign, well, you know you could automate that contract signature. You can make sure that there's, you know, hey, we're getting that done and there's automation pieces there and even automations to handoffs. Right. If it's a handoff to a project team or certain things getting done. But that middle part, that's really key where the conversations are, that's the part we gotta make sure we're not speeding up too fast because that's when people feel pressure and that's when they go I feel like you're selling me versus truly trying to help me. Kortney Harmon [00:41:44]: I love it. Great advice. And I just realized we only have five minutes left. I'm going to get two questions in that five minutes. Cool. Looking ahead, we talked about agentic AI. It's going to drive multi agent systems perform complex tasks. Right. Kortney Harmon [00:42:00]: As we continue to build this thing, it could help prospect, it could help your deal support, it could help a lot of things. What is your vision for sales in the next three to five years with AI? Shad Tidler [00:42:12]: That's a great question. You know, I haven't really stepped back and thought about that but just first thing off top of my head is that we're focused more on the right things where we bring value. So if you think of sales leaders, we're getting out of the admin task organically. We're really starting to step back and take a look down and go there's goals. Here's where we're at right now. Here's the information like let's analyze, forecast out and really understand and really understand the right goals and strategies and make sure we got everybody aligned. If you think of sales managers being able to execute those strategies down to your people, being able to coach and train them and hold them accountable and motivate them in the right way because you've got tools that can help help you. If you think of salespeople and various if they're on the front end all throughout. Shad Tidler [00:42:55]: Right. On the back end as account managers is being able to focus on those two to three key areas where you bring the most value. Right. Having those consultative conversations if you're on the back end. Account management is really understanding what's important to your folks, your people, the service that you're bringing in it, finding additional ways to help. I see it being where we're going to get even more focused on where we bring value. At least the great organizations are that adopt it and a lot of the other pieces that people are getting pulled in other directions right now if implemented the right way are going to go to AI or to some sort of automation. So that way we can keep focus on the biggest things. Shad Tidler [00:43:32]: I've heard a lot of people, Kortney saying they're like AI is going to make us stupider. I'm probably brutally honest here. I think the people that see us that are probably going to stay where they're at, like they're not going to grow. But the people who see it as a tool to go, I can do more of what's important, the important work and really focus on that where I bring the value where like my zone, you know you hear like zone of genius from good to great things like that. Where that is I just see as a tools to be able to help us do more of that. Kortney Harmon [00:43:59]: The sky's the limit when you're using it the right way. Shad Tidler [00:44:02]: Yeah. Kortney Harmon [00:44:02]: Okay. I love that. Great thought process. I'm going to end on this question. What should our listeners start doing today to prepare for AI driven sales future? Shad Tidler [00:44:11]: I think the biggest thing right now to do is to go, let's sit down and take a, it's kind of like from a selling standpoint, let's first sit down and take an inventory and go are we clear on where we're going goal wise as a company and organization? Right. And our strategies for next one year, three year, five year and then let's start to take a look at take an inventory of what's all the things we're doing where AI could help us speed up getting there or it's just repetition of things that like that's not where we bring value. And let's understand what are the priorities and getting to the top two, three priorities. Getting those one, three, five year goals beyond and then everything else. Let's figure out what are the tools, the pieces AI can help us either make decisions and get there faster or take those things off our plate so we stay focused on the right things. Kortney Harmon [00:44:58]: I love that. Sean, I loved being able to pick your brain today. Thank you for joining us. And my insights based on what you told me and kind of how I interpreted is AI isn't replacing our salespeople, it's amplifying the best ones. We're accelerating the winners who want to embrace technology but still want to create or keep those authentic relationship and strategic thinking. So I love that. Thank you so much for all of your insight and I can't wait to see you in 10 days. Shad Tidler [00:45:27]: I'm looking forward to it and thanks again for having me on here. Kortney. This has been fun and I think you probably picked everything out of my brain, but hopefully it's helpful. Kortney Harmon [00:45:34]: Well, if I didn't, you'll have to tell me when we're in Colorado, and then I'll do another episode. We'll include Chad's link to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Feel free to connect with him. And until next time, the future of sales isn't about choosing human or AI. It's about combining both to create something better. So have a great day. Kortney Harlan I'm Kortney Harmon with Crelate. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Industry Spotlight, a new series from the Full Desk Experience. Kortney Harmon [00:46:03]: New episodes will be dropping monthly. Be sure you're subscribed to our podcast so you can catch the next Industry Spotlight episode and all episodes of the Full Desk Experience here or wherever you listen.