Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 32 - What Happens When a Married Couple Starts Swinging? This Couple Talks About Having Trust and Setting Boundaries Part 2

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Ep 32 - What Happens When a Married Couple Starts Swinging? This Couple Talks About Having Trust and Setting Boundaries Part 2 · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones and let's get down to
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it. We are back for Part 2 with
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Candace and Derek. Love those names.
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Thank you. So one of the things that struck
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me when we met was you just captually slipped in that you
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were a virgin until you were married.
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Yes. And to meet you in this setting
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and know you were the person who waited for marriage.
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How did that go down? South.
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Like I said, there's a caveat. I don't know.
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Anyone listening has heard of this ridiculous idea that if you
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do anal, you're still a virgin. Scientifically.
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Scientifically yes, being the good Christian girl that I was
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bought into that lie. So I had had anal sex before
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before. You met.
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Therefore, I met Derek. So like could also just
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confirming this is a religious decision waiting for marriage.
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Waiting for marriage. And so I wanted to keep the
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particular hole our marriage. So I was doing the opposite.
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Yeah, again, a lot of shame around that and still some shame
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to be had right now, however, with being in the lifestyle,
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I've started to accept all of that about myself, especially
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our first date when, you know, like I gave in.
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Like it's been kind of shame yeah, I felt shame about giving
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in and shame about having anal sex before marriage and all this
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stuff right. But.
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You had been taught all of your sexual should be put on a
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pedestal. Could be 1 by some knight in
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shining armor. I was more valuable if I had
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that intact. So it was striking at your
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value. My value as a woman.
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As a woman. Yeah, when you said you have
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shame about it even now choosing to have anal, like where is the
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shame now? I guess because I have found
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Derek that I don't have the shame anymore.
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I think it's self-imposed a lot because of how I was brought up
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and all these ideations. You know, you're supposed to
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wait for marriage and all that kind of stuff, right?
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Is it's just kind of like ingrained inside of me.
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It's hard to get rid of. But now that we're in the
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lifestyle and we've been exploring this together and I've
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really come into my own and like admitted to myself that I'm
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bisexual and like all this stuff, it's very like validating
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and it's like a self discovery story, honestly.
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Like Derek is the one helping me do that and he's doing the same
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thing, right? He's exploring his sexuality on
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his end. It's really kind of come full
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circle. So I don't think I'm necessarily
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ashamed of it now. I think if I were to talk to
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certain people about, I would feel reluctant, but to be
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honest, like if they ever found out about anything, about my
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past, about our current lifestyle, I think I would be at
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peace with it because I'm like, OK, like, this is who I am.
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You're learning to accept. Accept myself.
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I think, like, that situation could be sad, right, because or
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like, upsetting because it could potentially ruin relationships
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with friends or family. So I think that aspect of, you
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know, potentially losing friends or family is what makes you,
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like, have the hesitation. Yeah, when you think of it,
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you're not actually ashamed of it.
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You're more afraid of Am I gonna?
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Losing that person. Lose a friend, Am I gonna lose a
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family member? Like, is somebody gonna like cut
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me off? Very interesting dynamic because
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like, I don't feel shame about any of it, but I don't share it
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with people. It's because I don't think they
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can handle it. There's not trust that you will
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be accepted fully. Yeah.
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In their space. Anymore and looking back, that
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decision to save that part of me for marriage, it definitely was
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to like please my parents and not necessarily like I knew that
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God would love me anyway. It's more trying to stay in
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their good graces. And now that I'm an adult and
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well into my 30s and I have children and stuff, it's like
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life is way too short. I need to be myself.
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I can't keep holding back we. Still consider ourselves
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Christians, right? We still.
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I was going to ask. Go to church, you know?
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Well, we haven't been in a while, but that's not because
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we've come with the church, right?
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Like. That's just That's because we
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have young kids and we need sleep.
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But yeah, like, we still consider ourselves Christian.
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We still pray. We still like very much.
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If anyone asks me, I would say I'm Christian.
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She would Same for her, right? Yeah.
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So like gangsters. Yeah.
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So. I'm Catholic but once also it's
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been. Forever since we truly believe
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that God brought us together too.
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Like I don't think it would have been any other scenario where
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like I truly think that he has his hand on our lives and
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anything that happens or anything, you know, like any
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roadblocks that we go into, we just fully trust in him and we
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always come out better people from.
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It how do you separate the judgment that was put on you,
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the pressure that was put on you to be a certain way in the name
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of religion and staying connected to God?
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So we've had this conversation a lot, and I think I struggle with
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it a little bit more than Derek does.
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But when it comes down to it, we had the conversation before we
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even got into the lifestyle. Like, what does this mean when
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it comes to our religion? And I won't even say it's a
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religion. We have a religion relationship
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with God. Like that's more of what we are.
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So anyways. You know, I think for anyone
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that's listening, right, this is our opinion on it.
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Yeah, this. Isn't backed up by like
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scripture biblical? Like.
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This is our opinion. This is our opinion.
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So what we true believe that whatever is in the context of
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our marriage, as long as there's consent between the both of us
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and yeah, we are willing participants and we stay
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committed to each. It's all about commitment,
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right? We stay committed to each other,
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then anything can go. As long as we're not hurting
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anyone, anything can go in the bedroom, including other people.
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So you meet and then you get back.
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How long between meeting and getting married?
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Three years. Yeah.
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So in the three years, there's anal, there's blowjobs, is he
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allowed to go down on you? Yes.
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OK. You still have a sexual
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relationship. There's intimacy, there's
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passion. Are you open at that stage?
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We did not live with each other until we got married.
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Is it a big wedding? 100 and 5000 and. 50I bigger
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wedding. Yeah.
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Yeah, religious ceremony or justice of the peace type thing.
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Religious. Ceremony, Yeah.
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OK, and it was a great it was a great wedding too.
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So like. Everyone had.
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We have, we do have different upbringings though, right?
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So even though I grew up Catholic, I did, you know,
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baptism, communion, confirmation, I did the whole
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thing. I never felt that pressure.
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Like I never felt the religious pressure on the sex side, right?
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Yeah, I feel it for other things, right?
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For like, just being a good human being and like, not being
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terrible to people and stuff. Like that.
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Yeah, right. But like on the sex side, I
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never felt like shame, the shame or like you're supposed to save
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this for marriage. But you both continued to
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believe in God. Yeah.
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And religion, which I can relate to.
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And it's something, it's so funny.
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More people I've dated know I'm kinky than know I'm religious.
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It's easier to talk about, yeah. It's especially hard, like,
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yeah, we have kind of like 2 worlds that we navigate, right?
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Like you have the religious or Christian side and then the kink
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side, right? Yeah.
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And like. And frenzy and then the side
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that we just have with each other.
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But then new friends. Yeah, and that's why we're
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starting to, like, accumulate more kink friends than not,
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which is interesting. It's tough though, yeah.
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One of the things I've always run into, and because you guys
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are newer and I want to talk about your introduction into the
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scene, it's sort of like I have my kink friends and then I have
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my vanilla friends and narrow the train should meet.
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And then I have kink friends who get sort of offended.
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I have vanilla friends who have no idea I have king friends.
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Yeah, you know what I mean? And it's a really tough world to
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balance. We've talked about it and we're
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like, well, we wouldn't bring our vanilla friends to the kink
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space, obviously. Yeah, we could bring King
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friends to the vanilla space as long as they understand like.
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This is. A vanilla space.
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We don't talk about this here. I love your story, I love the
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different facets of it. It's just I was never expecting,
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especially in the context we met.
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Like the back story for you both, but this is new.
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Going to parties like this, being open, exploring your
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sexuality. How did these conversations
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start? So you asked, like, you know,
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before we got married. What have you done?
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Right. Like, yeah, blowjobs go down,
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anal, There's other things. We've done a lot of others, a
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lot of kinky stuff. Who introduced that?
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I did she she brought who introduced.
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That OK, time out, let's go. No, because I want to have
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conversations like this where we get to talk about at real
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couples introducing this because there's two things I find it
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rare to find the woman who says I want to try this, right?
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Usually it's the opposite, but like how did you bring that up
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and why did you want to try? So I watch a lot of pornography.
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Yeah, I had seen it, and I had fingered a boyfriend before
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that. So like, I knew what it does to
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men. Yeah, You know?
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So I was like, I think he'll really enjoy this.
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And it was pretty early on in our relationship, it was while
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we were dating. And so I basically asked him
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like I was giving him a blowjob or something.
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And I was like hey, do you mind if I like stick finger in?
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And I tried that, he really liked it.
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And just for anyone who might not understand, the man's
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prostate is what you're aiming to touch when you put your
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finger up there. And women don't have a prostate.
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It's almost the same as having your clit.
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Like that's the best comparison I could give to it.
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And if you haven't experienced it yet, I I'd encourage you to
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try. My recommendation is treat it
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like you treat your clip. The best compliments I've ever
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gotten are when I've approached it like I've approached my own
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clip. Shortly after that I bought a
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strap on and yeah, I picked him and it was great.
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So it was almost as it was equal for his Ledger and yours.
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Yeah. And when I say like, why did you
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want to do it? I found out I enjoyed using a
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strap on because when I was a pro, someone paid me to use a
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strap on. And that's how I found out I
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enjoy them. OK.
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I don't have a high success rate of having partners who are into
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it. Huh, well, I've always had him
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so. Yeah, I feel like a lot of guys,
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they're like so afraid of the stigma maybe, right.
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Like they're so afraid that it's like means you're gay.
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That's the. Stigma.
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You're just calling. It out.
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It's a little different for me because I'm bisexual, so I'm not
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necessarily afraid of that stigma.
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I know there is a huge stigma, yeah, attached to it, even
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though it's like it's a woman getting a man off.
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And we've always been like the dynamic of I'm Dom and he's sub
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like he's always been more sub than Dom.
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And have you always been more? Dom, I think so, yeah.
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I mean, there's sometimes that I want to be submissive.
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I want to be taken care of, you know, like that kind of thing.
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And this is something that we've learned, too, like, even before
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entering in a lifestyle is like our regular life kind of mirrors
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our sexual preferences. In real life, Derek is the
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alpha, but in the bedroom, he likes to be submissive.
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He doesn't want to be who he is all the time and he wants to be
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submissive, right? That makes sense, and it doesn't
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even need to be that. Same for me, like in real life,
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I'm more of a team player, but then in the bedroom I like to be
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dominant. But I think we're both versatile
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too. That's kind of where we start to
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lean. I feel like I could go either
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way but I prefer to be submissive.
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I would want more of a like equal playing field with a man
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though. Like with a man I would not be
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submissive like that would be a different.
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Also very common. Yeah.
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There are a lot of women who were like, oh, I will only
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submit to another woman, you know, like, I wouldn't submit to
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a man. Yeah.
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OK. So no one wants to submit to
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man. Yeah.
11:55
Yeah. Exactly, Yeah.
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So is this thing you figured out over time, like as the
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relationship progressed, you were like, oh, let's try this,
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let's try that, and you worked your way into what worked, or
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did you have a pretty strong feeling of what you were gonna
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enjoy? At least for me on my side, I
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like worked myself into it because I hadn't really done
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anything quote UN quote kinky with any another man.
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I felt really comfortable with Derek and wanted to try those
12:23
things and felt comfortable trying those things.
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So I would say that like the exploration of this started when
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we started watching porn together, right?
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You start watching porn together and you ask each other, well,
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what kind of porn do you like? It's like just regular porn, you
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know, You're like, like, like you're, you know, waiting to see
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who's gonna like. The most common answer you know,
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the regular. Just whatever.
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Yeah. So, you know, you start to
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slowly, like, share with each other the more kinky stuff that
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you watch. And so she eventually opened up
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about, like, loving big Dick porn, Right.
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Like oh, OK, like. Why were you slow to mention
13:00
that? Because actually that does sound
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like the normal stuff. Like if I were to, yes, yeah,
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someone would think is the normal stuff.
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They would think a woman is watching big Dick porn.
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Now I don't watch that. Yeah, it's because I'm busy
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watching spanking porn. Everyone knows from ending the
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episode I've ever done. Yeah.
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Like I just watch people getting spanked.
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Yeah, So yeah, like he would ask me, OK, what kind of porn do you
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want? I'm like, OK, well, I'll watch
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like big Dick porn and I'll watch this.
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Hold on, hold on. What do you watch like this?
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I like show him a few videos and what I liked and then he would
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show me what he liked and a lot of it was like women telling him
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how to jerk off or like. Jerk off instruction.
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Instruction and femdom and then right like and then like, you
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know, like humiliation and degradation, you know like that
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kind of stuff like oh you have like a little Dick or whatever
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like it doesn't deserve me and like all that kind of stuff
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right so Derek was like OK like if you like big Dick porn why
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don't we bring a big Dick in here, right?
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Yeah. And I'm like, OK, you know, like
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he's more than average, right? But.
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So it's funny because I explain myself as average, right?
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Like no. Average.
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He's more than average. Yes he is and I tell him that
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all the time, but he's like no tell me I have a small Dick.
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I'm like, OK, he brings in this like monster cock.
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Were you ready for it? I was she.
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Was she was ready for it? This was a few years ago.
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This is what, 6-7 years ago? I mean, this was like almost
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right after we got married. Yeah, so I think like the first
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one I got was monster. It was like 9 inches like.
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That's larger than I can take like.
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It's been shallow, yeah. And so we first tried it like
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missionary, right? But then I was like, something
14:37
I've always wanted to try is doggy with a big cock.
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So we did it. So I'm like notorious.
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I don't come very easily either. So that's always something that
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we've struggled with too. So the first time that we did
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the big cock, I had the most amazing orgasm I've ever like
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vaginally that I've ever had. So we're like, OK, we got to
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keep doing this. And then that's kind of where it
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started, the whole talking about the swinger thing, because Derek
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said, you know, was asking me. He's like, well, would you ever
15:07
want a real one? Would you ever want a real big
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Dick? And so I would ask him like, OK,
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like, wouldn't you feel jealous when you eat all this stuff?
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And Derek is literally like, as long as you're there, I could be
15:19
happy with anything. Like, as long as you want it,
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I'll give you anything you want. So this isn't a cuckolding
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fantasy or anything on your. There's like a little bit there,
15:28
but it's I love making her come. I love it.
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So like I said, I wanted, I want to make her come, I want to make
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her feel good. I want to do those things
15:38
because that's what turns me on. The dildos was like what started
15:42
it. There's so much empathy.
15:43
Yeah. Yeah.
15:44
If this feels good, surely the real thing would be better for
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her. So, you know, knowing she's was
15:50
a virgin, right, and didn't get to experience that.
15:53
Yeah, he's always like. Well, don't you want to like
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don't. You she had like fucked other
15:58
cocks before and I'm like well, yeah, like I wish I would have
16:03
but. There's like the hesitation of
16:04
like. Honestly like.
16:06
Not wanting to hurt my feelings, right?
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Like I could tell she's like. If we're being completely
16:10
honest, like if I never fucked another cock again, I would be
16:13
completely, utterly happy. But we have so much fun fucking
16:18
other people. Like it's just, it's just
16:20
sprinkles on top of the sundae. It's not anything that I
16:24
absolutely need, right? Because I love him.
16:27
You know, like my person. Was there any fear or jealousy
16:31
of like, well, what if Derek, especially for you, you'd
16:34
experience other people? So Candace knew you would
16:36
experience other people. You know what was out there.
16:38
Did you not feel any worry that she'd run away?
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No, I didn't. So she always kind of makes fun
16:45
of me and she's like, you have a ridiculous amount of confidence.
16:49
Like you're just so confident that this doesn't cross your
16:52
mind, which there's aspect of that, right?
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Like I am, I am a very confident person.
16:56
So I would say I'm a secure attachment style.
16:58
Like I'm not worried about that because like, and we're going to
17:02
like, I guess the romantic side of this, right?
17:04
Having a connection with somebody that like you really
17:07
feel like is your partner, your, you know, your life partner,
17:09
your person is so much more than just like sex or physical or
17:14
emotional or psychological or whatever, right?
17:18
Like it's not just one or two things, it's all of it combined,
17:22
right? And so for me, I feel like our
17:25
relationship from the beginning has hit everything I've ever
17:28
wanted, always in every area that I could think of.
17:32
I don't think that I could find that anywhere else.
17:35
I don't think she could find that anywhere else.
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She could find somebody who could like, fuck her better, has
17:40
a bigger Dick, right? She could find somebody who like
17:42
emotionally connects with her better, right?
17:45
Or psychologically connects with her better or somebody who makes
17:47
more money or somebody who does this that right, Like those
17:50
things can exist, but altogether unlikely.
17:54
And if she finds that, then like good for you.
17:57
Like, I don't know, I just don't believe it's out there.
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It would obviously hurt if that happened, but it's not that
18:02
like, oh, I'm so great. It's together.
18:04
We're so great, right so. Each other I just want to take a
18:08
second because as a single person hearing this story, I
18:11
could go one of two ways I could be like fuck these lucky people
18:14
who won the lottery or I could be like, wow, they found their
18:18
person. That means my person is out
18:20
there. Doesn't mean there's only one,
18:22
but like when you find it and it feels right, it flows.
18:25
Because I grew up with my mom marrying different people and
18:29
sort of like unstable family life.
18:33
I was always of the mindset that like, there is somebody out
18:36
there for everybody or somebody's right.
18:38
Yeah. You just have to make sure that
18:41
you're very careful about the people you choose to spend your
18:44
time with. You don't settle.
18:46
You don't overlook things. I'm also like a very direct
18:50
person, and so if I have a problem with something, I bring
18:53
it up. Just like all of that plays into
18:56
finding the right person. But I think so.
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People are always so afraid to lose somebody because they
19:01
connect on one or two levels, yeah, that they will ignore the
19:05
3rd or 4th or whatever. That are important.
19:07
That are important as well, but they think these other two are
19:10
the most important and they don't want to sacrifice losing
19:14
those two levels of connection. They'll stuff it down deep in
19:17
side deal with it and it either creates resentment or eventually
19:21
it comes out. One of two things happen.
19:23
You move to the avoidant like you were talking about avoidant
19:26
attachment style where you know you were like have a shell of a
19:29
relationship or you just don't have a relationship anymore and
19:32
you're not together anymore. Candace, would you say this is
19:35
new for you too? Yeah, suggesting that you both
19:37
go out well, or maybe is it just you go out and find someone
19:41
else? Oh no, so I am a lot more
19:44
insecure. We are constantly communicating
19:49
no matter what before we go, while we're going, after we go.
19:53
And he explains that to me over and over again.
19:55
Like the chances of you finding someone better than me and not
20:00
in like an egotistical way, but like a better connect than me.
20:04
There's nobody else out there and same for me.
20:07
Like I'm not going to find maybe there's someone you know that
20:10
has bigger boobs in you or like there's someone that.
20:13
Sucks a Dick a little better than you.
20:15
I don't know like what I want to know I'm like, OK, whenever we
20:18
go into this, I just need to be reminded that I am I am number
20:22
one. I am #1 all the time because I
20:25
still have problems. I still have not problems, but I
20:28
still have like jealousy issues. And so whenever we go, we'll
20:33
debrief after and I'll say I'll tell Derek, OK, like this is
20:36
something I wasn't really necessarily totally 100% OK
20:40
with. Could you not do that again?
20:41
Or like, you know, like, you know, he'll touch another woman
20:44
a certain way or something? I'm like, that's just for us.
20:47
Like, I don't want you to touch. And he's like, yeah, great.
20:49
OK, cool. You know, like I'll know now,
20:51
like I won't do it again, that kind of thing.
20:53
But at the same time, like I'm trying to work my way up and
20:57
progress to the point where I'm at his level as far as like
21:02
confidence goes. And I don't know if I'll ever be
21:04
there because he's Derek and he's just that.
21:08
And I think another reason why I love him and so attracted to him
21:11
is that confidence too. Like, that's something that I
21:14
admire about him and I want, right?
21:17
And so that's like, my mission in this is to just get more
21:21
confident in not only in myself, but our relationship as well.
21:25
And not that I think that he's going anywhere, but it's just
21:29
there's always that little voice inside of me that's like, what
21:32
if, What if there's someone hotter than me?
21:35
It's always there. It's always gonna be there.
21:38
But it's like kind of learning the tools to like shut it down
21:42
or like, say, shut the fuck up, bitch.
21:44
This is my man. He's always gonna be my man.
21:46
Like, there's no worry here. And as we go and as we kind of
21:50
practice this, it's proving to that voice more and more that he
21:54
is sticking around and he is mine, you know?
21:56
And it's, I think I have to like prove it to myself more and more
21:59
that like, OK, like this happened and he didn't leave.
22:02
This happened. He didn't leave.
22:03
This happened, he didn't leave. I guess he is realized like
22:07
around, you know, like. But, and I think one of the
22:09
things I'm hearing is you both had a very secure relationship
22:14
and you brought this in again as sprinkles on top not to fix a
22:18
gate A. Broken system.
22:20
Swinging is not going to save your marriage, right?
22:22
So I think that's actually something that probably be good
22:24
to note is like if you are a cheater or you're with a
22:29
cheater, even if you were to have an open relationship,
22:32
you're still going to act the way that you would, right?
22:35
So like you'll still sneak around, you'll still be
22:38
deceitful. You'll still do things in a way
22:40
that like, even though technically you've said that
22:43
this is OK, they're still gonna hide stuff.
22:45
From the beginning, Derek has always been like, and at some
22:49
point this isn't working or like you, you know, have a panic
22:53
attack or something, like we can stop.
22:56
We never have to come back again.
22:57
You know, if either one of us has an experience, something
23:00
changes. Like, I don't know, maybe
23:01
something changes for me, you know?
23:02
Yeah, we say, you know what, this isn't for us anymore or
23:05
it's not for us right now. Maybe we come back to it later
23:08
on. That's where I think a lot of
23:10
people in relationships, they look for something specific and
23:13
then something that's not going to change.
23:15
But if you're with somebody for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years,
23:18
right, for decades, there's likely to be things that are
23:21
going to change. So being open to like working
23:24
through that change. Yeah, definitely be open because
23:26
like we've never like put a label on it, you know, like
23:29
we've never like set a time limit or whatever, you know,
23:32
like we're not limiting it to anything, right?
23:35
Yeah, and it started as like just looking for a guy for her.
23:39
So it. Really.
23:40
Did you start with like let? This one mission of let's find a
23:43
big Dick was there like, oh, how do you even do that?
23:46
Or were you aware of swingers parties and you were like,
23:49
that's how we. Just started, he started doing
23:50
research and found like the online, you know, forums and
23:53
stuff like that and. Yeah.
23:55
I mean, with the Internet today, you know, yeah, you could find
23:58
anything out there, right? It's very easy.
24:00
But it was something that we also wanted to happen
24:02
organically. I mean, you could basically like
24:04
DoorDash addict anything, right? Like we had already decided that
24:08
that's not how we wanted to go about it.
24:09
So, Derek, you were like, would you like to try it for real?
24:12
Candace, you said? Yes, so we started by like doing
24:16
Dr. bys of the swinger houses. So Derek would be like, well, do
24:20
you want to go? You want to go try it?
24:22
And I'm like, no, I just want to can we just drive by it?
24:24
I just want to see what it looks like.
24:26
And that's what we started with. And we just like drove by one of
24:28
them. We're like OK, that was OK, that
24:30
was a thing. Cool.
24:31
And then like the next week or something we were like OK, like
24:35
well do we want to go? And it took a few weeks to like,
24:38
because he was all for it, but I had to have some convincing.
24:42
And so we went to our first, like, swingers party.
24:44
And then after that, I was like, OK, like, I could do this, you
24:47
know, Like, this isn't as scary as you think it's gonna be.
24:50
It's very everyone's pretty accepting and welcoming to new
24:54
people and. Our first one, it is
24:57
overwhelming the first time you go.
24:58
Like it's not. I wouldn't say like it felt
25:00
scary, but it was like a lot of stuff going on here.
25:03
Like I just saw like 20 naked people you think?
25:07
You think you're prepared, but you're not.
25:08
Prepared. You're not prepared.
25:09
Do you think you could watch as much porn as you want to prepare
25:12
for this? Yes.
25:13
It's not the same as like seeing it in person.
25:15
Why do you think it's different? Well, it was just kind of like
25:18
the casualness of it. And the one that we went to is
25:22
at a big house, right? So we went, it's just like a big
25:25
house party. We walk in, there's literally a
25:27
buffet. Like they have food and then
25:30
they have like a dance floor, They have a DJ and they have,
25:33
you know, the bar and we drop off our alcohols BYOB and and
25:36
then like after no one's playing yet.
25:39
So like everyone's just kind of hanging out and talking.
25:41
There's like maybe? Playing beer pong naked person
25:43
or two but like. Less or whatever OK and then
25:47
like an hour into it there's just people like fucking on the
25:51
couch like 5 feet away and it's just a little jarring to see it
25:55
in person because I've never watched other people fuck before
25:59
like in. The fact that you could like,
26:00
reach out. And like, actually talk to them.
26:03
And you could like talk to them is like it's different, right?
26:07
Like. I think that my experiences
26:09
happened so early on in my sexual journey that I think I
26:14
became a little desensitized, OK?
26:16
Especially being a dominatrix. Yeah, I think there was no sex
26:20
at the dungeon, but the proximity to intimacy and
26:24
intimate scenes was so close that I think that it.
26:28
It's fascinating to hear this because I I haven't had the
26:31
experience. Of all human.
26:32
Being shocked, but what I will say is the smell of sex.
26:35
Oh my God. He's there.
26:37
Yeah. And that was I'm like, oh.
26:39
Yeah, and you come home smelling like it, even if you don't play.
26:42
It's a full sensory experience, yes, and you do come home
26:45
smelling of it. That is something that happened.
26:48
I think our first time, like I feel like I'm not supposed to be
26:50
watching this. Like I feel like I need to
26:52
leave. They were, they were in the orgy
26:54
room for everyone to see. Like obviously they want to be
26:57
watched. So it's just kind of, I know
27:00
Well, and that's before I knew I was an exhibitionist.
27:03
Like I didn't know I liked that until we tried it and I was
27:07
like, oh fuck, I think this is my thing.
27:09
Like this is what I love is just putting on a show, right?
27:13
We talked about, yeah, having a bad experience, yeah, but it's
27:16
all equally. You're 1 bad experience doesn't
27:19
speak to the whole club. No.
27:21
And that's the thing. Up until that point, it was like
27:24
one of the best experiences we've had.
27:26
Up until that point. It was great.
27:27
It was just that one little thing.
27:29
I was like, fuck, I wish it hadn't happened.
27:31
He did not ask for consent. Then it comes into the question
27:34
of did you report him? I did not report him, but I know
27:37
the owner. Yeah, the owner.
27:39
And so I do want to approach him at some point, but I don't know
27:42
when a good time would be because I don't want to like
27:45
bring down the mood you. Know.
27:46
Yeah, I don't. I at the same time like.
27:49
So for me, in this scenario, I couldn't really see, yeah, she's
27:54
like sitting on my face. He wasn't able to stop it.
27:58
Normally like if I see someone coming over like hey no or I'll
28:02
be like, you gotta ask her. You did.
28:04
A great job of doing that in the scene that like I say, yeah, but
28:08
like you did a very good job of staying aware while also
28:11
enjoying the moment and sort of like scan the room, yeah,
28:15
attention back to her. Yeah, Scan the room, attention
28:17
back to her. And I think that that's part of
28:19
it. You have to be a little bit.
28:21
Like I always follow her lead. So I describe it to her because
28:25
she's like, well, why do I have to make the decision?
28:26
I'm like, you don't have to make the decision, but if you leave
28:29
it up to me, we're going to try things that you don't want to
28:32
try. I don't want you to try things
28:33
you don't want to try, But I'm more open to like different
28:37
scenarios or people that you might not be interested in.
28:39
And this why wouldn't you make the decision like what's
28:42
happening that you don't always want to be the decision maker?
28:46
Well, that's what I do every day in my regular life is I make all
28:52
the decisions and especially as a mother, you know the decision
28:56
maker of the. Mental load.
28:58
It's the mental load of it. So sometimes I just want to not
29:01
have to decide anything. But he is right.
29:03
I like to have that option because I think I'm more of a
29:07
people pleaser than he is, right?
29:08
So like, yeah, if he wants to try something and I'm not
29:11
necessarily like, you know, if he suggests something, I'm more
29:14
wanting to please him. And maybe I'm like, not really
29:18
OK with it, but like, I want to make sure like he has a good
29:21
time, right? But if it's on my side and I'm
29:24
just directing the shots right, like I don't necessarily do
29:27
something I don't want to do, you know, like.
29:30
Would you be more likely to say yes to something that you didn't
29:32
want if you were the decision maker?
29:34
Or would you be more likely to say no to it?
29:37
So I don't know. I'm trying to think of something
29:39
I've been asked to do XYZ. Usually like if we're fooling
29:42
around right and someone asked to come play or like when we
29:46
were with you. So I pulled out my breasts.
29:49
Yeah, my nickels got a lot. Great.
29:54
Nothing. Yeah.
29:54
Yeah. The crowd loves it.
29:56
Yeah, Derek did ask me, but I'm not sure if he had a chance to.
30:01
OK, are. You you did ask me.
30:02
Yeah, you did ask me. OK, You did.
30:04
Yeah, amazing. OK, yeah.
30:06
So I was gonna ask, was there a chance?
30:08
To so you usually ask me first and then he asked for consent
30:13
from the other person. Person.
30:15
That makes a lot of sense, because then it doesn't make it
30:17
awkward. Sometimes I'm more confident
30:19
than others. And then it's usually like in
30:21
the moment where I'm like, yeah, I think I'm OK with that.
30:24
Like, let's try it and see. So one of those times was we
30:27
were at another club and there was this really attractive
30:30
couple and she was like sucking his cock.
30:32
And so we were just kind of like watching a little bit.
30:35
And she looked up at me. She's like, oh, do you want to
30:38
join me? I was like.
30:39
In sucking. This in sucking the strangers up
30:42
until this point, nobody has like really touched him or like
30:46
sucked his Dick or anything like that, right?
30:48
So she's asking me to join. So I'm like, OK, check with
30:51
Derek. He's cool with anything I want
30:53
to do. So like, yeah, go ahead and suck
30:54
his cock. So it was a big Dick.
30:56
So I was like, yeah, I'm sucking with her.
30:58
And then and then she offers, do you want Derek to lay down and
31:02
we'll switch. You can suck his cock and I'll
31:06
suck Derek's cock. So it took me a few seconds and
31:09
I was like thinking about it. And I was like, I think I'm OK
31:11
with that. Let's do it.
31:12
So we laid Derek down and we just sucked these cocks side by
31:17
side. But the thing that I, I think
31:19
made it OK for me was like the whole time Derek's not even
31:22
looking at this other chick. He's looking right at me and
31:24
he's just watching me and so and I'm watching him and like we're
31:28
like holding hands and stuff. And the other thing that was
31:31
made it really OK with is the other couple was doing the same
31:34
thing. The guy wasn't even looking at
31:36
me. He was looking at his girl.
31:38
That's what I'm talking about. Like in the moment that was
31:40
perfectly fine for me because we were all about each other.
31:43
They were all about each other. I was like, this is just good
31:46
old fashioned fun, Leonel. Like there's no jealousy,
31:50
there's no nothing here. Like this is great.
31:52
And then that was it. And that's kind of like what
31:54
we've been searching for is like, OK, like even if it's a
31:58
single person that they're into both of us, right?
32:01
Like we needed them to be in both of us.
32:03
And then if it's a couple, we want them to be in it for each
32:07
other and not for us. Like that's kind of like what we
32:10
kind of feel, feel people out for because like we've had
32:13
people approach us that are like just into me.
32:16
And I'm like, no, like you have to be in both of us.
32:18
And same for Derek. People are just into Derek and
32:20
not me. And I'm like, no, I have to be
32:22
there too. Like I have to be involved at
32:24
some point, you know? I think it's what's really funny
32:27
is you both give a really you do a good job of presenting as the
32:30
United front. And again, I'm talking about
32:32
vibes. It's really hard to explain to
32:34
people it's about vibes because, you know, 1 action either one of
32:38
you took that made me know I was like, this is a couple that
32:41
doesn't play separately, but I did.
32:43
Yeah. But I guess that's maybe also
32:44
from being quite attuned to people in general seeing the
32:47
connection between you 2. Yeah, When we start talking with
32:51
people, let's say it's the three of US.
32:54
She's standing between us, right?
32:56
She's standing there. You guys are talking.
32:59
Candace is standing there, right?
33:01
You guys are talking. I'm letting that conversation
33:04
happen naturally. I'm jumping in and saying
33:07
something if I have something to add, but I'm letting you to
33:10
connect, right? Candace and whoever connect, if
33:13
I feel like the connection is going well, I'll be more active
33:16
in the conversation and and join in.
33:18
It's. Just why it works well when I
33:20
approach Candace first because that step one was done.
33:24
Yeah, connection. Yeah, yeah, I can be very
33:27
flirty. I just don't.
33:28
I leave it turned off most of the time because I want to make
33:31
sure she's comfortable before I open that up.
33:33
Yeah. And there's been times where
33:34
he's been, we've been talking to a couple or whatever, and the
33:39
guy will be flirty with me. So Derek is flirty with the
33:42
woman. And even then I'm like, there's
33:44
still that little tinge of jealousy there.
33:47
And so we're still like figuring it out.
33:49
I don't know how to get rid of that, if I can get rid of that.
33:52
So I always tell her when she, I don't know if I can get rid of
33:54
that. If that's how you think about
33:56
it, you will never get. Rid of it.
33:57
Yeah, that's OK. That's a good point.
33:59
I do agree with that. But you know, I just want to
34:02
call myself out here and saying I go to parties alone because I
34:07
equally don't think that I handle the jealousy well, no
34:10
matter who it is. And I tell my partners this, as
34:12
open as they are to me going, I'm pretty open about the fact
34:16
that if roles were reversed, I would never want to know like.
34:19
Yeah. So I get it, But I do think
34:21
there is ability to. If you think you're never going
34:25
to be open to it, then that is your loophole to never open,
34:28
yeah. I'm not saying it's easy and
34:31
it's because I've been jealous before.
34:33
Like I've had insecurity before, like.
34:37
I have never seen. But have you happened in this
34:40
relationship? No, not even since like the
34:42
first day. Something she does just allows
34:45
me to trust her. Can I speak on it?
34:48
Yeah, I think it's her vulnerability that is.
34:50
So you can be quite vulnerable immediately.
34:53
I felt that. And I think that I wonder if
34:56
that's what you also felt. I don't know.
34:58
You might be right. I just met her, so I feel like
35:00
I'm an expert on what it's like to just meet cancer.
35:03
Yeah. Yeah, so I do.
35:05
Know her very well. Yeah, so I think, like I think
35:08
back to it and I'm, you know, I've been in relationships
35:10
before where I was jealous and experienced that range of
35:14
emotions, but those people gave me a reason not to trust them.
35:18
They, it could have been about dumb stuff.
35:20
It could have been lying or hiding dumb things that didn't
35:24
really matter. But once that, like, trust is
35:26
broken, that trust is broken, Right?
35:28
Yeah. So with Candace, I've never had
35:30
that from day one. Vulnerability definitely is
35:33
something. Now that you call it out, she
35:35
never did the thing. You know when you're in a
35:37
relationship and you know there's something stupid you do
35:40
and you want to lie about it because you don't want to look
35:42
like an idiot? Or you know, she never did any
35:44
of that. You know, like games.
35:45
Yeah, there's no games, there's no mind games.
35:48
And so with her, I just was bought.
35:50
I was brought in on the trust from the beginning, which is a
35:53
big deal. And that's something that I
35:55
struggle with. It's like, it's not that I don't
35:58
trust him implicitly, I trust him with everything that I have.
36:02
It's more of like I don't trust myself to keep him.
36:06
And that sounds really sad, but like.
36:08
There's a, there's a self value. Thing There's a self value thing
36:11
that I have where I can't completely give in.
36:14
It's something I've struggled with my whole life.
36:16
I recently opened up to my therapist about what we've been
36:20
doing and I've told her like this has been the best year of
36:24
my life and the best year of our relationship because I can feel
36:28
the confidence. I've never had confidence in my
36:32
life and going to these parties and stuff, you know, people tell
36:35
me I'm beautiful, tell me they want to fuck me, tell me, you
36:37
know, whatever. It's like exposure therapy
36:40
almost. Like I go and now I'm actually
36:42
believing that I'm this hot piece of shit, you know, like
36:45
I'm a hot piece of ass and people want to fuck me.
36:49
And now I'm like living in real life.
36:51
I go to work and I'm like, yeah, I'm like this really fuckable
36:54
MILF. And then everyone wants to fuck
36:56
me. I can feel that confidence
36:58
actually like stabilizing itself.
37:01
And I've never had that in my life.
37:03
And it's something that I didn't really expect either.
37:06
Like I didn't expect to get that.
37:08
But like, that's why I want to keep doing it.
37:10
And I want to do more. And I want to get to the level
37:13
of confidence that he's at because like, I like have a
37:16
little taste of it. And I'm like, Oh my God, it's so
37:18
amazing. I just want to be fully myself
37:21
and fully feel like, you know, it's like self love.
37:24
Like, I just want to love myself how he loves me, you know?
37:28
I love all of this. I think that your experience and
37:31
your story is going to help a lot of people.
37:32
So I want to know before going to this party, what were the pre
37:35
conversations you had with each other to prepare?
37:38
What were the boundary conversations?
37:40
How did you know what you were ready for?
37:43
Well, we were really just like, let's just go and see what it's
37:47
like. We don't have to do anything.
37:48
We talked about it for like years before we actually went.
37:52
We talked about started with big dildos turned into dirty talk,
37:56
yeah, turns into, you know, would you actually like to try
37:59
this? And again, we once we said we
38:01
would like to try this, we still, it was like years of
38:04
talking about talking about it, dirty talking it afterwards,
38:07
checking in. How did you like this?
38:09
How did you not like that? Like all of that.
38:11
So yeah, I mean, communication was key.
38:14
It still is. I think when it comes to setting
38:17
boundaries, we haven't been great at setting boundaries, but
38:20
not in a bad way because the first time we went it was, well,
38:24
we're not going to do anything, we're just going to go see what
38:27
happens. Did you stick to that?
38:28
We did the first time we set boundaries.
38:31
We haven't stuck to them, but it's not been a bad thing
38:33
afterwards. You have to explain what you
38:35
mean by that. Well, so the second party we
38:37
went to. Yeah, we just wanted to go and
38:40
check it out again and there was more people there that time, so
38:43
it was a little bit more like comfortable.
38:44
We weren't planning on playing or anything, but there is this.
38:48
I think you spotted him before. I spotted him.
38:50
I spotted him way before you do. You spotted this big old cock
38:53
across the room before I saw it. And then Derek looked at me.
38:57
He's like, yeah. And so we were kind of watching
39:00
them. And so they ended up, like,
39:02
laying down in the orgy room, and they started, like, right up
39:05
in front of everyone. And I think she was like a
39:06
little bit of an exhibitionist, too, because she was kind of
39:09
performing. So I took Derek's hand and like,
39:11
we kind of like walked over and we're just kind of like looking.
39:14
Similar to the bed that you were that we were on, there was a
39:18
bench like there. Was a bench like right there so
39:21
we were just sitting on the bench and we were watching I
39:24
think she was sucking his cock at that time the guy looks over
39:27
at me, sees me watching and he's like you want to join and then
39:31
the girl looked up she's. Like, yeah, come.
39:32
On So Derek looks at me and he's like, well, do you want to?
39:35
And I was like kind of like, but I was like, but only if you want
39:39
me to like do you want me to? And he's like, yeah, I want to.
39:41
So I went around the other side and it was really sexy because
39:45
like Derek is like, like holding my hair back for me and like.
39:49
Well, you take. It off my clothes 1st.
39:51
You sat, just moved off the bench onto the bed and you
39:54
sucked his Dick a little bit. It was like, oh, I'm going to be
39:57
here for a while. Yeah.
39:59
Right. Candace stood up and walked to
40:01
the other side of the bed. I stayed on the bench and
40:03
watched. Still right there.
40:05
This guy's girlfriend were sucking his Dick together and I
40:08
could tell she was really getting into it, like really
40:12
enjoying it. She was struggling to hold her
40:14
hair back and I was like, I'm going to go hold her hair for
40:16
her. So I got up and I walked around
40:19
and I'm holding her hair back and I'm whispering in her ear
40:22
and kissing her neck and. I wanted to know, like, OK, is
40:25
this turning 1? Is this what?
40:27
And he's like, Oh yeah. Like, keep going.
40:28
I want you to keep going. And I'm like, OK, Because that
40:30
was giving me the confidence, OK.
40:31
Like he's secure with this. So like, I feel secure.
40:34
I don't know what happened. Derek started like taking off my
40:38
shoes, like taking off my pants and like taking off my shirt.
40:41
I. Started helping her get
40:43
undressed while she was still sucking his.
40:45
Let's get her comfortable, but I don't want her to have to stop.
40:48
And then the other couple was like, well, let's all be
40:52
together. So we kind of moved back.
40:54
There's like a few beds pushed together in the back.
40:56
So like we moved to the back section and we were all kind of
41:00
like playing with each other. The guy was like, well, do you
41:03
want me to fuck you? I wasn't like prepared for that
41:05
at all. I went to Derek and I was like,
41:07
OK, like are you OK with this? And he's like, well, I really
41:10
want you to if you want to. And so I was like, OK, you know,
41:13
like, let's try it, you know, and we have this big cock here,
41:16
like this is what we want, you know, let's try it.
41:19
And so, but what I really loved about it was so it was
41:21
missionary style, but Derek was like right there.
41:25
I was, I was on her left. Yeah, he was right there with me
41:28
and I told him I was like, all I want to do is like, look at you,
41:31
I just want to kiss you and I want you to tell me like how
41:34
good I'm doing and stuff. So you advocated for what you
41:37
wanted. Yes, happened.
41:39
That is huge because I think a lot of people aren't as strong.
41:43
Yeah, in that area, because we feel like we don't get to
41:46
advocate for what we. Want.
41:47
Well, and I knew that if I didn't, I'd regret it because,
41:50
like, this was our first, like, big experience.
41:53
And I wanted it to be perfect, right?
41:55
Not perfect, but, you know, I wanted it to be what I wanted,
41:58
what we wanted, what we wanted. Yeah.
42:01
So. Yeah.
42:01
So that guy gave it to me. Good.
42:04
While he was fucking her, you know I was on her left.
42:06
His girlfriend was on your right.
42:09
And she was like and. So we were both like, she was
42:12
sucking on one tit. I was sucking on Candace's other
42:15
tit, kissing her, looking, you know, licking your neck, biting
42:18
your ears a little bit, you know, again, talking to her
42:20
like, you're taking it so good. Like, good job.
42:23
You look so hot. Yeah.
42:25
And then also doing the, you know, being a good husband,
42:27
checking and just reminding her, like, I love you so much.
42:29
Yeah. I like.
42:31
So there's like an oddly weird, sweet, romantic thing that we do
42:35
that people miss. Like I said, you know, like you
42:37
said, you didn't know if I had asked for consent myself.
42:40
Between us we find it very easy to have like a quick check in
42:43
where people don't even pick up on it.
42:45
This has been amazing, but now I need to ask you, for everyone
42:49
out there, what advice would you give to a couple who even think
42:53
they want to try swinging? There's so many things.
42:57
It's not just one thing that you can do, Yeah.
43:00
OK, so the recommendation I give to couples, and I know this is
43:03
not probably how you 2 approached it, but is I like
43:06
each person to describe exactly what they expect is going to
43:10
happen in great detail so the other person can be like, that's
43:13
not how I saw it. Yeah, OK.
43:15
I even given this analogy so many times, this podcast gonna
43:17
be sick of it. I say the word house.
43:20
Not only are we all possibly imagining a different house, one
43:23
of us could be thinking of Doctor House, the TV show.
43:26
Yeah, that's the range of the word.
43:28
So I think there was a lot of build up to us doing this and
43:32
even checking it. So I think that's important.
43:34
Test the water is you don't have to dive head first, right?
43:38
Like it started with watching porn together.
43:40
It started with toys, after that dirty talk, then actually the
43:45
strip club. I really greased the wheels for
43:47
me now that I'm thinking about. It I know.
43:50
Yeah, that was yeah, I made a huge difference.
43:52
You were in that environment, but it's a highly controlled.
43:54
Yes, exactly. I would definitely say like the
43:57
first time, no matter how tempting, like I would not do
44:00
something just because the environment is overwhelming.
44:04
Like you said, it's a full sensory experience.
44:07
Yeah, that would. Be.
44:08
People to feel. Power to show up in these
44:10
spaces. And yeah.
44:11
Play even if you've gone to other ones.
44:13
Every time you go to a new club for the first time, they ask,
44:17
have you been here before? They're gonna give you a tour,
44:19
they're gonna show you around. They're gonna explain what rooms
44:22
are rooms you can play in, what rooms are rooms you can't play
44:25
in, right. If there's any rules about the
44:27
route, you know, no single guys in this area or whatever, they
44:31
give you those tours, especially if you ask.
44:34
There is definitely was no feeling of pressure to play any
44:38
of the times that we go. And I think that's important to
44:41
keep in mind, like there's no pressure, there's no
44:43
expectations. Go in there like you would go to
44:45
a house party, go talk to people, go make friends.
44:49
If you find somebody to fuck, awesome.
44:51
People seem to be very, very accepting of what your situation
44:54
is. You don't have to full swap to
44:56
be a part of this like community.
44:58
You can be whatever you want to be like, because with us, right,
45:02
Like we're kind of working our way into it, right?
45:04
So and people are very curious, OK, like are you guys full swap?
45:09
What do you do? And we're like, well, we're kind
45:10
of like, we like to play with each other and, and people
45:13
respect that. So like you.
45:15
Mean when you say full swap in that situation, do you mean full
45:18
swap coupled for couple like girl goes with other guy?
45:21
It's like, yeah. Full swap.
45:22
Full swap. As opposed to And then what
45:24
would you call when and a man comes up and just wants to play
45:28
with you? There's no real name for that,
45:29
is there? So full swap would be like when
45:33
you go with the opposite partner, right.
45:35
So I would go with another girl, the guy would go with her, be in
45:37
the same room, could be in a separate room, right?
45:39
There's same room play and separate play.
45:41
So that's also something, right? If you have a guy looking for a
45:47
couple, but not necessarily for the man of the couple to be
45:51
involved, maybe to watch or whatever.
45:53
Yeah, that's, I guess that would be like a bull, yeah.
45:56
Right, that describes him. Yeah, that you could either
45:59
describe that as like I think a vixen or a hot wife.
46:04
But hot wife is is something very specific.
46:07
I feel like where it's like the husband is for sure wants to be
46:11
humiliated. I think that's cuckolding.
46:13
Cuckolding. Here's how.
46:14
I view hot wiping. If we're saying the word goal,
46:17
let's say the word vixen. Yeah, that's how I view it.
46:19
And then cuckolding, I think it's not official, but brings in
46:22
that humiliation play, whereas hot wiping is an empowerment and
46:27
I think that's how I view it. I actually just talked to
46:31
Women's Women's Health about it, where I gave this.
46:33
Exactly. OK.
46:34
This is how I view it and hope I was like, well, if I'm saying it
46:37
is the king consultant, maybe it makes it into the but I really
46:40
do think that's what it is. And the only other thing is it's
46:44
always nuanced because your definition of it, there's no
46:48
Oxford and. It's not, Yeah.
46:50
Wikipedia. Everyone hasn't gotten together
46:53
to have this conversation. Anyway, that's how I view it.
46:57
So I like this whole bold vixen. But then full swap is one thing,
47:00
but there's no such thing as a half swap.
47:01
And then everyone I feel knows what a Unicorn is.
47:04
That's the yeah, the single woman who shows up and yeah,
47:07
here. So like, so yeah, there's no,
47:10
there's no like half swap, but there's like soft swap.
47:13
So that's where like that's the scenario that like we did with
47:16
that couple where like his wife sucked my Dick, my wife sucked
47:20
his Dick, right? Yeah.
47:21
So it's not penetration or sex, right.
47:23
So it's not full swap, just soft swap.
47:25
So that's usually like what I think of like foreplay.
47:27
Oral sex. Oral sex.
47:29
So that's thing and then yeah, unicorns that.
47:32
The elusive. The elusive Unicorn, which we've
47:34
like never set out to look for but have found and.
47:37
It's interesting because like, there's a really bad, I would
47:40
say Unicorn hunting has a really bad rap.
47:42
There are unicorns out there who are equally looking for.
47:45
Yeah, they just want to show up. Not naming names, not suggesting
47:49
unicorns in the room. I'm just saying that that
47:53
happens too. Yeah.
47:54
Yeah. It's.
47:55
I don't want unicorns being treated like these glass objects
47:58
that might break. Should a couple be looking for
48:01
that? I think that's a good point
48:02
though because they exist so like they have to be looking for
48:06
that too I would think. But.
48:08
Unicorn hunting is treated like this.
48:09
Yeah, it's treated like this thing that couples should
48:12
definitely not do. And I hate hearing that.
48:14
And I understand it comes from caring for the single.
48:17
Woman and a. But it's like a place where
48:21
everyone showing up in an empowered way.
48:23
I'm not on apps looking Vienna. I'm not swiping on Tinder being
48:27
a Unicorn. Yeah.
48:28
But anyway, my point is that's something I always like to call
48:31
out too. And I when I send couples to
48:34
swingers clubs because it's something they're interested in,
48:36
I tell them I'm like, listen, if this is what you're looking for,
48:40
just be prepared. Some people do turn their nose
48:42
down at people saying they're looking for a single woman
48:44
because it's seen as almost offensive to the community.
48:48
Maybe not in the most open of clubs, because Playhouse I did
48:51
not. We went to a hot wiping party.
48:53
Yeah, yeah. Well, that.
48:54
That's haven't really experienced.
48:56
That that's that's the joke that I've made about that night is
48:59
like, you know, we went to a hot wife party.
49:01
So the like intention is you're going to find a guy.
49:04
We ended. Up we ended up.
49:06
You which like that was never even something that we thought
49:10
we were looking for. So that's why I say like we've
49:12
kind of set boundaries. But then in the moment, those
49:15
things have changed because you're comfortable with the
49:17
person that you're talking to, you're comfortable with each
49:20
other, the environment, the situation.
49:22
So we actually plan to go to that party like a month in
49:25
advance because we had to call out of work on Friday.
49:28
We had to like request off of work.
49:30
We had to like make sure we had somebody to watch the kids.
49:32
Then consider like we got to get the kids up and get them the
49:35
daycare. It's like a whole thing, right?
49:36
Yeah. We get these periods of five to
49:39
six hours where we get to go and do something crazy, but we have
49:42
to return to regular life. We're very intentional with it.
49:45
We only might get one night out a month.
49:48
We'll go three weeks without going and I'm like craving it.
49:52
I'm like, I need a fix of just being like feeling wanted and
49:56
desired and like fucking hot. And you know, like I just want
49:59
to go out with my husband and just have a good time, you know,
50:03
like I want to escape. And, and not that like this
50:06
lifestyle is our life now, but really, honestly, like it's part
50:10
of our life now. And it really feels like where I
50:13
can be most myself is at these parties and with Derek, you
50:18
know, so like, you know, you want to get back to it, you want
50:21
to experience it and. Like I said, that weekend had
50:24
the night with you. Yeah, amazing.
50:26
Then the next night we went to Prestige.
50:28
Had a great time. Had another great time.
50:30
Then I went to the gym. I don't know how I managed to
50:33
grow up in the morning on Saturday and I went to the gym.
50:36
I tell her all the time, she doesn't believe me.
50:38
I never get hit on, nobody talks to me, I don't get hit on.
50:41
People leave me alone in public. But I don't know, it must have
50:44
been given off a vibe from all the like past. 48 hours.
50:47
Because I was just working out this girl, you know, put a note
50:51
on her phone and was like, hey, you know, your workout was
50:54
really impressive, you know, and started a conversation with me
50:57
and I was like, where's this going?
50:59
You know, what's the point? We talked for a little bit.
51:01
And again, I don't make the first move.
51:03
She's like, can I get your number or something?
51:05
And also I don't give out my number.
51:07
I was like wearing. Your wedding, right?
51:08
Yeah, I was. And so I gave her my Snapchat or
51:12
something like that Instagram, and we started talking and then
51:16
I was like, I'll give her my Instagram because she'll see
51:18
kids and stuff, right? Yeah.
51:20
So I give her the Instagram and she was like, I hope I'm not
51:23
stepping on any toes or anything.
51:25
I was like, no. And I explained the situation
51:28
and I said, but just know, like if you're interested, like it's
51:31
a package deal, right? I ran home and I told Candace I
51:35
was like, you're not gonna believe it.
51:37
I got hit on, you know, told her about it.
51:39
So she was like a little like. Well, and to give you context
51:42
too, I had given my number out previously what, a few months
51:45
ago? Yeah, yeah, of.
51:47
July because we had like previously talked about it too,
51:49
like OK, if we get hit on, especially me, like if I get hit
51:53
on, what do you want from this? Do you want me?
51:55
They like, get his number and see, like, we'll debrief later
51:59
and see if we're interested in, like, inviting him in.
52:01
And so that was kind of the conversation.
52:03
I'm like, OK, same for you. Like if you get hit on or
52:06
whatever, you get a girl's number that you're interested
52:08
in. Obviously they need to know our
52:10
situation, but like, let's talk about it, you know?
52:13
So I had previously given my number out to this one guy that
52:16
was into me right at a club. Nothing became of it.
52:20
So Derek got hit on and I was like, so proud of him.
52:23
So at first, I told him, like, OK, there's that little tinge of
52:27
jealousy, right? Like I told him, like, thank you
52:30
for handling it the way that you did.
52:31
That's how I want you to handle it is like, be upfront about,
52:34
you know, you're married and, like, all this stuff and our
52:37
situation, right? Like, we are a package deal.
52:40
You can't have me without the other.
52:41
And you have to be into both of us.
52:43
It can't just be for me. He encouraged her to reach out
52:46
to me. We'd been talking too.
52:49
And so we've been talking to this girl on and off for a
52:52
little bit. We haven't met up with her yet,
52:54
but. She's been wanting to like, go
52:55
to one of the parties. Prestige or Yeah, so.
52:59
You 2 have laid the groundwork by having prep conversations for
53:02
a situation that didn't even exist.
53:04
Yeah, To prepare in case it should happen.
53:07
Yeah. And that's how you were ready
53:09
for this. So the groundwork is constantly
53:12
being laid. And another boundary came out of
53:14
it too. So like, we were both talking to
53:15
her on Instagram. I was like, OK, I'm gonna go to
53:18
bed. I'm tired.
53:19
And I was like, I thought of a boundary that I really, you
53:22
know, I need respected. So I told him I was like, if
53:24
things get spicy on the texting, you can't jerk off with just
53:29
her. Like I have to be involved with
53:32
the conversation. This is a really logical.
53:34
Which is consider. Your real life, Yeah.
53:37
Yeah, I'm like, this makes sense in the digital world as well.
53:40
Yeah. You want the same.
53:41
So I want the same rule. It did get there.
53:44
It got spicy and Derek told her, hey, I can't do anything.
53:48
Candace isn't here. So that was great, you know, and
53:51
and I knew it was going to come up because I was like, she's
53:54
really into him. Like I think she's going to try
53:56
not try something, but I think she's it was going to go there.
53:59
So I just wanted to make sure that I would feel really bad and
54:02
I think he would feel really bad if he did end up doing something
54:06
and then told me later and then it hurt my feelings later,
54:09
right? So.
54:10
Communicating A boundary when it comes up is probably the best
54:14
for everybody involved. Yeah.
54:15
And that's where, like, again, we put the relationship above
54:19
everything else. It's like I'm not willing to do
54:20
anything that's going to jeopardize or risk our
54:23
relationship. So all of this is just fun.
54:27
Yeah, I drop it at any second if there's any hint that like this
54:30
is gonna put our relationship in jeopardy.
54:32
However, OK, I'm gonna challenge this though it would be hard for
54:36
both of you at the moment to give it up.
54:38
Are you both committed to giving it up if one of them if?
54:41
One of you wants it? Absolutely.
54:44
What do you mean by like what are you?
54:45
Saying Candace said I can't do this anymore.
54:47
It needs to stop. You're committed to.
54:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that is also one of the
54:53
most important things, because I think that that is one of the
54:56
complications that comes up is sort of if one person wants out,
54:59
are we both willing to commit to leaving?
55:01
Yeah, you have to, right, Because again, like, so the
55:05
whole point is for us to grow our relationship, to be with
55:08
each other, to have fun together.
55:10
So if you always go back to like what the core of it is, yeah.
55:14
And you remember that I'm going to that for something that was
55:18
supposed to make our relationship great.
55:20
That doesn't make sense to me. I was feeling it.
55:23
And she was like, we got to give this up.
55:25
We'll reevaluate. We'll figure it out.
55:27
If we come back to it, cool. I think a lot of people in
55:29
marriage in general forget that, right?
55:32
Like you got married because you wanted to be with this person
55:35
for the rest of your life. You wanted to commit to this
55:37
person through hard, through easy, through all of that,
55:41
right? So when things get hard, the
55:44
like stuff compound. When people have to start giving
55:48
things up for that relationship, the more they have to give up,
55:51
the more stubborn they get about giving up anything else.
55:54
Would you rather give up the relationship?
55:56
Like this is the one thing to me, this is the one thing I
55:59
always wanted out of life was a partner like this, a family,
56:02
kids, all of that. I'm not going to jeopardize that
56:05
for this. That's a dime a dozen.
56:07
Going out and hooking up with people is I mean to do that any
56:11
night of the week. This is not this is not a dime a
56:13
dozen, right? So it's hard as it is when you
56:16
like have you know that temptation and you want
56:19
something or somebody that's fly by night.
56:22
This is for life, and everybody's different, but I've
56:24
always been since I was a kid. I always wanted to be married.
56:28
I always wanted family. So even during Fuck Boy Derek
56:31
stage, I still knew that this was something I wanted.
56:34
Yeah. So I'm not giving that up for
56:36
anything. Everything else I'll burn it to
56:38
the ground before I like give this up.
56:41
Well, like my perspective, I'm in it now for like my own
56:46
self-confidence and self discovery.
56:47
I'm not in it for the sex. I'm in it to discover myself and
56:52
discover who I am within our relationship too, because this
56:55
relationship is already everything I've ever wanted.
56:58
And it's just getting better because I'm able to love myself
57:01
more and more and the way that he loves me, right?
57:04
So if we would ever get to the point where he didn't want to do
57:06
it anymore, I would give it up on a heartbeat just because
57:09
that's not something that I want to risk at all.
57:11
Like that's not the point of any of this.
57:13
And for all the couples out there that want to do it, just
57:16
make sure your relationship is strong because if it's not, then
57:21
this is for sure going to crumble it.
57:22
It's like having kids. You're either going to get
57:24
stronger from it or you're gonna fall apart.
57:26
And it's hard to know that's the case, but knowing that if you're
57:30
old, if you're going into fix, it's a.
57:32
It's a break. If you already know that, yeah,
57:35
you definitely don't want to explore that because you see all
57:38
the time, like I get like call him up because I'm all like
57:41
nervous or whatever, because I see like a TikTok or something.
57:43
It's like swinging ruined my marriage or blah, blah, blah.
57:46
And and we always have the same conversation.
57:48
It's like they're not us. Like we have this strong
57:51
foundation. If at any time we need to leave,
57:54
we'll leave. We don't have to do it ever
57:55
again like this. Is just when she's called me
57:57
about that I'm like, cut it off then.
57:58
So any last piece of advice? I guess like for all the men
58:04
too, but all the women out there, like if you are
58:08
struggling with yourself confidence, especially within
58:10
your marriage, I say at least think about it.
58:13
Think about giving it a try. As long as you have a strong
58:16
relationship with your husband and he is all there for you and
58:22
wants to help you improve as a person and just get better and
58:26
help you love yourself. This is definitely like exposure
58:30
therapy and it's it's really hard at first, but it's getting
58:33
easier and easier. And now I'm like, I love it.
58:35
I love going and I love experiencing that with Derek.
58:38
You, you. Talk about like, trusting your
58:40
partner, trusting your husband. What is the bar, though, that
58:43
you think should exist? Because is it that you want your
58:45
husband to be strong enough to and open enough to hold your
58:49
hair back while you're sucking another man's Dick?
58:51
Like, is that the ball? Yeah.
58:53
Is there a different? Scale it's like a it's a vibe.
58:56
It's definitely a vibe cuz it's like I'm the quote UN quote
58:59
jealous one in the relationship. So I think if your husband is
59:03
the jealous one, this isn't gonna work like this isn't gonna
59:06
work for your like self discovery, right.
59:08
If your husband is the secure type is in it for your pleasure,
59:12
right. It's really gonna work.
59:14
If the roles were reversed, AI wouldn't be attracted to Derek
59:18
cuz if he was jealous, I wouldn't be attracted to that.
59:20
It's the confidence that I love and I'm secure in.
59:24
I'm just insecure about myself. Derek, do you have advice for
59:28
couples? Any parting words?
59:30
Or maybe specifically for men actually?
59:32
Men up and go to therapy and fix your shit.
59:34
Go learn about yourself go like become confident in yourself and
59:39
comfortable with yourself before you bring your insecurities and
59:42
you cast that on your partner. Explore something like this.
59:45
Like you need to be confident. You need to be secure.
59:48
You need to figure out whatever you know, traumas that you're
59:52
carrying, that you're trying to project alpha male figure by
59:57
going to the gym, by having the fast car, by whatever it is that
1:00:01
you're doing out there to like mask.
1:00:04
That hurt, right? Stop trying to mask it.
1:00:07
Like go figure it out. Go make sure that you get over
1:00:11
it and that you feel better. You can enter the world as,
1:00:14
like, your authentic self and not just wearing that mask and
1:00:17
then go explore something like this.
1:00:18
But until you do that, don't bother.
1:00:19
I've gone to therapy on and off since I was a teenager, Like, so
1:00:24
it's something that's just built into who I am, right?
1:00:27
Those practices. And sometimes, you know, when
1:00:29
you're having a rough time, you forget.
1:00:30
You have to go back and be reminded or whatever.
1:00:32
But yeah, I've been in it. I've done it, you know, not
1:00:35
easy, but that's where my confidence comes from.
1:00:37
It's like myself worth is not tied up in things or
1:00:42
achievements or accomplishments. It's just like, I just think
1:00:45
that I'm have. Value.
1:00:46
Yeah, I have value no matter where I am.
1:00:49
And it's not like it's not tied to anything I do or have.
1:00:53
It's just me as a person. Which is the ideal.
1:00:56
And on that note, thank you both so much for coming on the
1:01:01
podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
1:01:05
don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with
1:01:08
anyone who might find it interesting.
1:01:10
And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
1:01:12
future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
1:01:15
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
1:01:19
on.