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THE FOUR M'S WE WANT TO STOP · The Karen Kenney Show

• 0:01
  Karen Kenney: Hey you guys, welcome to the Karen Kenney show. I'm so happy to be here with you, getting to spend a little bit of time with you. And I'm not, I have no idea
• 0:10
  what I'm going to call this episode. I'm just, I'm just like plugging my nose and jumping into the deep end. I might be dog paddling my way out, but let me just tell
• 0:23
  you where the inspiration for this episode came from, and why I want to talk about it. And then I'll, of course, as always, I'll tell you a little personal story. And then
• 0:32
  we'll, we'll get into some spiritual principles. A lot of times, though, I think about why? Why am I sharing some spiritual principles, universal spiritual principles.
• 0:43
  I mean, other than, of course, trying to be helpful and spread a little more love. But normally, that comes from because it is a problem. It's like, why do we usually
• 0:53
  practice anything or try to solve for anything, or get quote, unquote help for anything, like, Why do I even have, like, a job in the world as a spiritual mentor, etc,
• 1:03
  etc. It's because, usually, there's some people who are struggling with this whole being human experience. And trust me, me too, a lot of the ways that I learned these
• 1:13
  tools and these, you know, perspectives and insights and whatever that I might be sharing with you, the resources, it's because I went first. Like, I'm not saying I
• 1:21
  went first for everybody, but I had to go first for myself before I could, you know, share anything you know. And, of course, in miracles, it says, you know, you cannot
• 1:28
  teach what you have not first learned for yourself. So so hopefully this show is going to be helpful for some of you out there, and I'm going to, I guess I'll just dive in. So
• 1:41
  I was in my car the other day, and I started to laugh, because I just literally turned on the radio. Now I A lot of times I don't listen to anything in the car, even though I
• 1:52
  do love music. And, you know, certain days of the week, like NPR or nhpr, like, I'm a huge fan of things like the Moth Radio and This American Life. And, you know, there's a
• 2:07
  couple of the shows on there that I like. I love to learn, and I especially love to hear storytelling. And one of the things so that I know is that a really good storyteller
• 2:19
  can, like, grab my attention like that, but so can a really good accent like especially if it's a familiar accent. So I clicked on the radio the other day while I was waiting
• 2:27
  in my calf or something, and all of a sudden I hear an accent and a voice, and I go, ah, the sound of my people, right? It's the sound of my people, and it's Bill Burr. And
• 2:37
  if you don't know who Bill Burr is, Bill Burr is a comedian. He's a famous comic from Massachusetts. He's been in a bunch of movies. I think he's on Broadway right now
• 2:47
  in Glengarry. Glen Ross playing a role, but he was on fresh air with Terry Gross, and that's one of my dream shows like, you know, once my book gets out into the world, once I
• 2:58
  finished writing it, and then hopefully it gets picked up by a publisher, but I would love, love, love to be interviewed by Terry Gross. It's one of those, just one of those,
• 3:06
  like dreams that you that I have, you know, I've had for many years. I love her interviews. I think she's really interesting. But anyways, I hear her talking
• 3:14
  to Bill Burr. Now he has a new special out right now. I think it's called the drop dead years, or my drop dead years, or something like that. I think it's on Hulu. And so she
• 3:24
  was interviewing him and talking to him about stuff. And the reason why I'm sharing this with you is, like, why should like, Why should I give a kick? Because it's, it's
• 3:35
  what he was saying that kind of led to and I'm going to take you down. I'm going to drop the breadcrumbs for you so you can see how it went in my brain, how it worked in my
• 3:43
  head. So he was just basically talking about stuff, and he basically said something that grabbed my attention. He was talking about where the inspiration to become a comedian
• 3:55
  came from. And he, like many of us, many of us little mass holes that were raised in the late 60s and the 70s, whatever, in Massachusetts, it was kind of like a
• 4:06
  generation of men, excuse me, that were raising us, that really had no probably no business raising children. They had a ton of them. Maybe you had a fantastic father, and
• 4:19
  if you did, God bless and Amen, unicorn, you're a unicorn. Enjoy the sparkles. But a lot of us were raised by like, men with like, absolutely no emotional intelligence.
• 4:30
  And what's interesting is a lot of times I do think that they thought that they were doing better than their fathers did, like they thought they had toned down their rage
• 4:37
  and their anger and their abuse and their their their approach, their approach to raising kids like maybe in their minds, they thought they were doing a better job at
• 4:46
  Jesus Christ. It was a long way to go. There was a long way to go. So he was talking about this, the kind of, you know, the abuse and stuff that he, you know, and he hasn't
• 4:55
  really go into details, but just he tells enough that, you know, you can nod your head and go like, yeah, brother. To get at me too. But this is what he said. He said he
• 5:02
  learned to be funny. He said I learned to be funny so that I could walk into a room and not have people hurt me. Oh, and when he said that, like, it just boom, it just like,
• 5:13
  hit me in the hot right? I learned to be funny so that I could learn, like I could walk into rooms, and whether that was school, what like bullies, his own family,
• 5:20
  like whatever you know, you walk into a room and you tend to make people laugh. They tend to leave you alone. You know what I mean? And he said, I just didn't want people to
• 5:28
  hurt me anymore. And it got me to thinking about as he was talking about this, it got me to thinking about how, like, some of the behaviors that he was describing, it totally
• 5:40
  reminded me of growing up when you grow up in a household where there is abuse or alcoholism or whatever, right, when there is this kind of, like, un unbridled rage that
• 5:53
  could happen in any moment. And kind of what he was describing, I started thinking about it, and I was like, Oh my god. This is like, this is, like, where an Al Anon, meaning,
• 6:03
  would, like, really, really help somebody. So it got me to thinking about Al Anon. Now, I'm sure pretty much every single person who's listening to this has heard of AA,
• 6:13
  right, Alcoholics Anonymous, and they kind of have, like, a sister like, I think of it like a sister program, right? Or call it a cousin program, or whatever. It's a shoot
• 6:23
  off of this, and it's called Al Anon. And Al Anon basically, the purpose of Al Anon is to help families of alcoholics. It is a support group for the family and the friends of
• 6:34
  those struggling with alcohol use disorder. And I went to Al Anon many, many, many years ago. And I'm sharing this because that's what there's a few concepts within Al Anon
• 6:49
  that I think are applicable to everybody. And I think a wicked, wicked helpful but, but this is how I got there, right? Is Bill Burr talking about this, and I was just
• 6:59
  like, Oh, my God. And it got me to thinking about my time in Al Anon, and some of the things that I found wicked helpful, not only wicked helpful, though, but some of the
• 7:08
  things that shown shined a spotlight on behaviors and patterns that I have, that I can still recognize once in a while, but I can certainly see in the People around me,
• 7:21
  in the relationships around me, in the world around me. And I thought, why not talk about these? Because maybe you'll recognize some of these behaviors or patterns in yourself.
• 7:30
  Maybe you'll become aware of them for the first time. Maybe you'll get to see like, how far you've come and on your process, your journey of healing, some of these
• 7:38
  patterns and behaviors, really survival mechanisms, is what I call them. But first and foremost, I'll never forget, we're walking into my first Al Anon meeting and
• 7:48
  just being like, what the fuck What am I getting myself into? I was like, not a person who was like, super comfy, like sitting in a circle and talking about things
• 7:59
  and being really vulnerable and open and just saying stuff, right? Like revealing stuff. It was, it was a really intense like the first one, and then you just kind of get
• 8:11
  used to it. You get used to the storytelling and people, you know, doing there a lot of times, right? A lot of times, when you're new to Al Anon, you're there to, like, bitch
• 8:20
  and moan and whine about whoever you're dating, or your father or your mother or your cousin, right? You're there to just bitch and moan about whatever alcoholic you
• 8:29
  tend to be in relationship, and it doesn't occur to you that you're there because you're you need it because you're sick too, because you've got some issues too, right?
• 8:42
  You think you're going to go, it's going to be a room full of people who are totally going to take you aside and understand, and Oh, poor you, and you're such a victim. And
• 8:50
  they Oh, nobody knows how hot it is, right? And then you get there, and if you're lucky, now, if you're lucky, you're going to get a sponsor, like I did. My sponsor, Laurel was
• 9:03
  like, next level. I'm almost positive. I mean, that's how long it's been. I'm almost positive. Her name was Laurel, and she was short. She was she was an amputee, one of
• 9:18
  her I don't know if it was from the knee down or a little bit higher up. It's a long time ago, right? She did not take shit from anybody, and she certainly did not let me
• 9:29
  sit in the shitty diaper whenever I was tempted to start to like, boo hoo, hoo, boo hoo, or bitch and moan and whining, complain about what my boyfriend was doing at the
• 9:43
  time. She just was, she was one of the first
• 9:45
  people to really, really tell me, keep the focus on yourself. Keep the focus on yourself. Keep the focus on yourself. And it would drive me crazy, because I just wanted
• 9:54
  to feel justified right in my frustration or my situation or my problem. But let me. Just drop a couple of the I can go on and on and on, and maybe I will, maybe I'll do a whole
• 10:04
  long thing about Al Anon, but there are, like, a couple of couple little things I want to drop with you. So the three C's that I learned in Al Anon right talking about,
• 10:15
  like, somebody else's addiction. Now here's what's an interesting thing as I was, as I was getting ready to do this podcast and talk about this, I started to realize that
• 10:25
  when you could just replace the word addict with person, meaning any human being, and you could replace the word addiction with problem, meaning the things that I'm going
• 10:38
  to be sharing with you, because I don't, I hope you stick around. You might be like, Oh, I'm I don't know any alcoholics or, Oh, this is it has nothing to do with me, trust
• 10:45
  me, I bet it does. And stick around because a lot of this is also just quote, unquote, survival mechanisms in human behavior. But I got there through the lens of Al Anon. Okay,
• 10:56
  so Al Anon has the three C's, which is, like, I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it right now, this could apply to somebody else's drinking, but it
• 11:06
  can also apply to 1000 other behaviors. And here's the reality other people, and whether that is your sweetie, you're a partner, your siblings, your parents, your children,
• 11:18
  whatever it is they have. I often have to remind my clients, you know your kids, your whoever, your your husband, your wife, your girlfriend, your partner, your boss,
• 11:30
  whoever. Right it's like they have their own comma, they have their own dama, they have their own individual curriculum. They have their own they have their own journey that
• 11:42
  they have to take. They have their own spiritual team. They have their own divine helpers, right? We cannot, we cannot take on the responsibility of like other people to
• 11:53
  that level. Now, of course, if you have like little kids, right, you are responsible for them. Like use, let's use our common sense here, right? And know, like, there's going
• 12:02
  to be exceptions to the rule. But if we're talking about, like, you know, grown ass, like, grown ass adults and people who are coming into their adulthood, right,
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  whatever's going on with them most of the time, right? Probably 90% of that, you didn't cause. You can't control it. You can't cure it, especially when we're talking
• 12:20
  about that stuff, but here's the thing, we do have choices, and that's kind of what I want to talk about tonight, is some of the behaviors that we may have picked up along
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  the way to try to survive our childhoods, to survive our life, and to survive what was going on in a time when we felt really out of control. Because when you're a little
• 12:39
  kid, you don't really have a lot of power, do you? You don't have a lot of control. You're at the mercy of the older people who around you, your environment, your
• 12:49
  experiences, the people who have the power and the people who like supposed to keep a roof over your head, feed you, love you, educate, you, take care of you, like
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  whatever it is, and a lot of times we don't have a say, right? We don't have a say as children. So here's the thing, but we do now as adults, have choices. Now we can look
• 13:11
  back at some of these patterns that I'm about to talk about and go like, Oh yeah, check some boxes. Like, so I'm going to talk to you about what we call the four M's. Oh,
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  the four M's and the four M's in Al Anon, when we talk about this. But again, even if we're not talking about Al Anon, I see these behaviors just in people all the time. I've
• 13:32
  seen them in myself, when I see one, when I see an old Pat and trying to rear its head man, I try to get right down to the business of acknowledging it, right? So first of all,
• 13:44
  you have to have awareness that you even have the problem. Then you have to kind of accept that this situation is there, right? You can't change something you don't even
• 13:53
  know is going on. So the awareness is key. And then you have to kind of accept it. And then before you get into action, that's why I always say we need to get into alignment
• 14:01
  with our core values, or we need to get into alignment with the God of our own understanding. We need to get into alignment with love before we can take any action.
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  Okay, but here are the four M's and these suckers, all right, so they're mothering, managing, manipulation and mad Adam. All right, let me say those again, these
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  behaviors that I'm talking about that are often, first of all, wicked counter productive to our own well being, and they are also, they kind of keep us in a cycle of
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  drama. It's exhausting, isn't it? So let me say the four M's again, mothering, managing, manipulation and mode of them. And let's just kind of break these down and how they
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  might show up in our day to day lives and and a lot of times, like I said, these behaviors come into being, especially, especially if you learn them at a really
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  young age. Age, and if you are an adult child, now an adult child, right? You used to be a child. Now you're an adult, but you are now you're an adult child. Of
• 15:09
  alcoholics. A lot of these patterns of behavior are probably and, you know, they say The Force is strong. The force is strong in you. And this one, the force of these
• 15:18
  four M's, is probably really strong. But let's break each one down, and that way you can see if you recognize any of these within yourself. So mothering kind of refers to
• 15:29
  when you try to take on the role of caretaker or parenting to someone who is struggling with whatever. It could be an addiction. It could be like they can't get
• 15:40
  their financial shit together. It can be their health, their wellness. They're not taking their pills for their you know, maybe they had a diagnosis of a disease and
• 15:49
  they're not doing what they need to do. Or they've been told, Hey, if you don't stop smoking, like, if you don't get your body moving, you're gonna like, blah, blah. But
• 15:57
  this, this mothering thing, is when you try to take on the role of caretaker, of parent, of someone who's struggling with something, but it's at the expense of your own well
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  being. It's at the expense of your own needs. And you try to kind of take on responsibility for things that are not yours to do. It's not yours. It never was yours,
• 16:16
  right? But yet you try to get in there and mother it, mother. It like a mother. Bugger. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just get up in other people's business and you try to
• 16:27
  just, like, take care and make sure and all that stuff. And if you can, if you can, if you can see this behavior in yourself. Now, look, some of you're gonna say, but I am a
• 16:39
  mother. Isn't that my role? I would say, like to a point, right? Of course, not when they're little kids, not when they're early teens, right? You know, as a parent, there's
• 16:51
  gonna come a point you have to let your kids fail. You have to let your kids make mistakes. You cannot. I always say, we cannot save people from themselves at a
• 17:03
  certain age and a certain point, you have to let people be adults. They have to learn to self parent. They have to learn to use their own inner wisdom, their own internal
• 17:15
  teacher, to start making better choices. So if you're caught in that mothering loop, maybe just take, you know, just step back, try to see it from an outside perspective,
• 17:26
  and see if this is something that you have, a pattern of behavior that you've acquired. And a lot of times we're trying to do these four M's because we feel out of control, and
• 17:39
  we feel like, if I can just control this, right? We think we're doing it for them, but really we're doing it for ourselves. And I'll talk more about this at the end. Okay,
• 17:50
  the next one is managing. Oh my god, this is, this is when you try to, like, control or fix the problem of the person who's struggling. You don't let them again. You
• 18:01
  don't let them, you don't allow them to take responsibility for their actions and their choices. So you try to do everything, even like controlling the environment. Now, those
• 18:13
  of you for sure, for sure, who grew up with
• 18:16
  alcoholism in your family when you were a kid, you're going to recognize some of these. These these are just some of the ones that I came up with. So you're always kind
• 18:24
  of like scanning your environment. Right for me, I was always aware of the energy in the room. I was always, I say, I was always watching myself out this forehead, like for
• 18:37
  signs, I always say, the landscape of his forehead. I was always looking like and noticing, like what he was doing with his face, because it was always an early
• 18:45
  indication of like, what was about to go down. So we do things like, we're hyper aware of other people's body language, the energy in the room. We're always continually
• 18:57
  taking like the temperature, quote, unquote, the temperature of the room, right? We walk on eggshells around the addict, or we walk on eggshells just around people. So remember
• 19:07
  this, I'm not just talking about, you know, people who have addictions. I'm just talking about people, and people when we grow up in those kind of unsafe, unsure, uncertain
• 19:18
  environments, those egg Shelly environments we tend to carry unless we do some big work on ourselves when we're younger, we tend to carry these behaviors into our adult
• 19:28
  relationships, and then we often wonder why they don't work out right. And it's like, we think it's because, oh, because they're drinking, or they're doing this, or because
• 19:37
  they're doing that, or they're doing whatever, and it's like, no, it's like, because we need help too, because we're sick too, because we grew up in sick
• 19:43
  environments, you know what I mean. So we try to, like, walk on eggshells. We try to do all this stuff because we don't want to cause the other person to either, quote,
• 19:53
  unquote, drink or we don't want the other person to get mad at us, going right back to Bill Burr, right. I try to behave this way and manage everything, and manage my
• 20:03
  environment and manage everybody so that I don't get hurt, which is so sad when you think about it, but we haven't learned a better way yet, sometimes and until we start
• 20:15
  to gather some tools that will help us. This is kind of what we do. Another thing that people do is they try to, like, just put on, like, they just pour pink paint over
• 20:24
  everything. They just try to pretend like there isn't a problem. They just, like, hide behaviors of the people who are not doing the great things. They just, like, make up
• 20:31
  lies and excuses. And they just try to pretend like everything is perfect and nothing's going on. Like, don't look behind the curtain. Like, don't, don't Wizard of
• 20:38
  Oz. That's like, don't look over there, right? And that's another way of trying to, like, manage people and manage the environment and manage everything, and it's
• 20:47
  fucking exhausting. Okay? The next one is manipulation. This is the third M. This is when we try to use as that. We would call, like, controlling tactics or deceptive
• 21:02
  tactics to try to influence the behavior or the decisions of others. I'll say that again, we use controlling tactics or deceptive ways to try to influence the
• 21:15
  behavior or the decisions of others, and we often do this so that we don't have to avoid. First of all, so they don't have to avoid but also, mostly so we don't have to
• 21:24
  avoid facing difficult situations or uncomfy emotions. You know, sometimes we're not even aware that. You tell somebody they're being manipulative, and they'll be like, No, I'm
• 21:37
  not. I'm just trying to do something nice. No, I'm just trying to x, y and z, because here's the thing, it's not always conscious. So many of our learned behaviors and our
• 21:48
  patterns are deeply, deeply subconscious. That's why in the work that I do, I always say we work with both the conscious and the unconscious. That's why there's like
• 21:56
  subconscious reprogramming in the work that I do, because we're not even aware that we're doing it. And I'm sure you have noticed something, a behavior in somebody
• 22:07
  else, like it's easy to recognize sometimes in other people, but we often don't see it in ourselves. And it's also because, first of all, we don't like to think of ourselves
• 22:17
  being manipulative. We can't recognize it because it's not conscious, but also because manipulation takes on a lot of different forms, it wears a lot of different outfits
• 22:26
  and costumes. You know what I'm saying? So here's here's the thing. Manipulation takes lots of forms, things like setting up a situation to achieve a desired outcome. So
• 22:38
  you don't trust that things are going to unfold. You don't just let things lie. Right? To me, the manipulation has kind of like, there's, there's, and with all of
• 22:47
  these, really, with all four M's, there's an underlying anxiety. There's a tension there. And I'm doing this thing with my hand where my palm is open and my fingers are red,
• 22:55
  white, and my hand is like shaking. There's like this hum, this like uncertain hum in the background, which is this uncertainty, this fear, right? That's what anxiety is.
• 23:04
  And a lot of times when we feel that anxious thing like we feel like we have to do something, we have to we have to react. We have to like mother or manage or manipulate.
• 23:14
  Another thing that manipulation looks like is passive aggressive behavior. Maybe find yourself, maybe slamming the the door a little too loud, stomping your feet a little
• 23:25
  too loud, doing that big sigh, doing that big sigh, hoping somebody's going to ask you what's wrong. Are you okay? Oh, my God, the Academy Award goes to, oh, the Oscar goes to
• 23:49
  for Performance of the Year. Okay, but here's another one. I don't know how people are gonna feel when I say this one out loud, but here's the truth. Another little
• 23:57
  manipulation. Is people pleasing. People pleasing. So think about it. Why? Why do we people please? Bill Burr manipulation was being funny. That was his survival
• 24:12
  technique. Because if I do this and I get people to like me, they won't hurt me. You do it because you want other people to like you. That's why you people please. You want
• 24:24
  them to like you. You want them to love you. You want them to give you their approval. You want them to say, good girl, good boy, good person. Pat on the head, right? But
• 24:34
  trying to get a need met. It's in, it's wrapped, it's wrapped. It's like, it's like, you know those little nesting dolls. It's like, under the under the under the under
• 24:46
  the under like, inside it, inside it, inside it. Why do I do this? Oh, because it's really easy to think you're a good person when you're doing everything for everybody
• 24:54
  all the time. Which leads us to mod Adam, right, being a moda. Yeah, that fourth m and this one involves when you sacrifice your own needs. You just are trying to just like,
• 25:09
  please everybody, serve others, right? You just don't care about your own well being. You go out of your way. You go above and beyond. You fucking circ to select yourself
• 25:21
  to kingdom come. Oh, my God, I am no stranger. I'm no stranger to any of these. PS, by the way, all right, I can recognize these old patterns and they that river runs
• 25:33
  deep, but but we can really learn ways to recognize what we're doing. And the reason why this is what I said, I made a note to self. Modigl is a fast track to suffering
• 25:46
  and resentment. Do you remember? I don't know if you were I think I said it on the cab episode. I was talking about how underneath all, like so many smiling, nice
• 25:56
  women, is like boiling rage. And rage is under the under, the under of a lot of mad as well. So Mata dim often leads to feelings of resentment and burnt out. Because when
• 26:09
  you try to do it all, and you try to do it all alone, first of all, when you try to do it all for the all, like for everyone, and you try to do it all alone, when you feel
• 26:21
  like that, you're going to feel like you're sacrificing so much of your time, your energy, your love, your money, your resources, and then you feel like your
• 26:31
  efforts go entirely unnoticed. And then what happens you get you get your panties in a bunch, get a little cranky pants. Give you have yourself a little tantrum, a little
• 26:44
  tizzy, right? You get yourself a little adult tantrum. You get a little Po, you're a little pissed off. Why can't people see how I do everything all the time for everybody
• 26:59
  and nobody appreciate do they even say thank you? Do they even notice? Oh, my God, I still this is one for me where,
• 27:09
  you know, I've had to learn. I've had to learn, especially with my sweetie, right? I'm quick to say thank you. I'm usually pretty quick to notice things and to say
• 27:17
  thank you, and whatever. And I had to learn living with my sweetie that he takes a little bit longer to get around to using his words and if I just And first of all,
• 27:30
  hopefully we're doing things because we want to do them. Now, of course, there will be times in our life where we do something, maybe we don't really want to do it, but
• 27:39
  it's the right thing to do. So you do it right? But hopefully we're doing things as adults because we want to do them. And it's not transactional. It's not tit for tat.
• 27:48
  We're not just sitting around waiting for the Thank you. I've had people in my life who are just like it almost doesn't feel like a gift they've given you, because they
• 27:55
  give you the thing, and you can just tell they're sitting there with their fucking little watch, waiting for their Thank you, waiting for the acknowledgement, and it kind
• 28:02
  of sucks some of the fun and the joy out of it a little bit. But I am no stranger to that quality of feeling like that, especially like back in the day. I've done
• 28:13
  some good work around this. I've done some good work around this, but here's a little tip. Here's a little tip. So if you feel yourself in that you're sitting in the
• 28:23
  shitty diaper of martyrdom and you're just feeling like everything you do goes unnoticed or underappreciated or unappreciated. Here's a good question.
• 28:32
  Here's a good I learned this All right. Hello. Thank you. Thank you, Laurel. Thank you Al Anon for this. I learned this question, but did they ask for my help with
• 28:42
  this? Did they ask for my help with this? Or did I just take it upon myself to Cirque du Soleil myself? Did I just take it upon myself to talk and turn and go out of my way
• 28:56
  and drive the 20 miles or go to the store or pick up the thing or by the present or do their what, whatever it is. Did they ask for that help? Or did I take it upon myself?
• 29:08
  Because this is when your moda Jim combines with manipulation of that people pleasing. Well, here's Bill Burr. If I'm just funny, they won't hurt me. Well, the other version
• 29:20
  of that, well, if I just do everything for them all the time, they'll love me, and then they won't want to get rid of me. So a lot of this is tied into like 1000 things, but
• 29:31
  like things like fears of fear of abandonment, fear of not being good enough, feel of fear of not being worthy, fear of not being lovable. You know what I mean? So
• 29:41
  if, if you ask that question, well, did they ask me to do this? Did they ask me for my help with this? Did they ask me to help them? And the answer is no, well, then don't
• 29:51
  be surprised that you don't get a thank you, because we see it as helping when here's another m, they might see it as. Meddling, but I didn't ask you to do that. I didn't
• 30:03
  ask you to come to my house and X, Y and Z. I didn't ask you to fold my clothes. I didn't ask you to buy me the thing. You took it upon yourself, and now you're going to be
• 30:11
  mad at me because you're up in my business and meddling, and you see that as love, and I just see it as being controlling. Oh my god, you know what I mean. So look, the
• 30:22
  important thing to remember here, I want to say this, this part's important. So, lean in, lean in. Listen, right, these four M's, the mothering, the managing, the
• 30:33
  manipulation and the martyrdom. They come from a wound. They are survival mechanisms, things that kept you in some instances, alive. So we're not here to shame ourselves.
• 30:48
  We're not here to blame earlier versions of ourselves, those earlier younger versions of us, those younger parts of us were just trying to survive, our experiences, our
• 31:01
  environments, right, the situations that we found ourselves in, the families that we were born into. It wasn't by choice, a lot of it wasn't by choice, but it became us,
• 31:14
  and we were just dog paddling in the deep end, trying to keep our head above water. And we learned some, you know, trauma responses. We learn some patterns of
• 31:23
  behavior, but now what happens is, when we get older, they're no longer working right. In fact, they're getting in the way of the thing that we want the most, which is, like
• 31:36
  intimate, and I don't mean intimate, like sexual, but intimate connection with other humans, like intimate relationships, relationships where you can have deep
• 31:46
  vulnerability and connection, where you can really let yourself be seen and not feel like you have to be perfect, like, if I'm not perfect, they won't love me. They'll
• 31:55
  kick me out. They'll get rid of me. They'll break up with me. They'll leave me. They won't want to be my friend. They won't want to buy my product, they won't want to
• 32:01
  whatever, right? But this is not a way to live anymore. It got us to a point, and it was helpful to a point, and now there are better ways of being. There are better ways
• 32:13
  of being. And if you're like, I don't know what those are, right, like, I don't know, like, I don't have those tools. Well, here's the thing, there is a lot of help out there.
• 32:26
  There's a lot of literature, there's a lot of resources. There are groups, and there are people like me who are spiritual mentors and coaches and stuff like that, right? So
• 32:36
  there are groups like Al Anon. Like, if you're recognizing yourself in these, right? And you've never been to an Al Anon group, I highly recommend it just going and checking
• 32:46
  it out. Give it a few like, like they say when you when you first go to AA or whatever. I know a lot of friends in AA, and they always say, like, when you're trying to
• 32:56
  find your home meeting. That meeting is, I always say, I equate it to like when you're trying to find your yoga studio. Like, when you're trying to find your yoga studio, I
• 33:03
  always say, like, go to six classes, go to six like, go to different places, go to different teachers, go to different classes, and try to find the good fit for you. And
• 33:11
  it's the same thing with any one of these groups, right? A lot of times people try to find them in their hometown. Sometimes people don't want to be known in their
• 33:18
  hometown, so they go to a neighboring town, whatever. But Al Anon can be a really powerful thing. There's also a co a groups adult children of alcoholics, groups those,
• 33:29
  and I think it's actually adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. Oh, my God. It makes me laugh every time I think of it or see it. But because, hello, hello,
• 33:43
  who didn't, who didn't grow I mean, all of us should just go to that meeting, right? Who didn't grow up in a dysfunctional family? Holy shit, right? But this is the
• 33:52
  thing, one of the things that we can do when we find ourselves doing a lot of these M's right, a lot of these M's right, is to learn to like do another m, which is myself, learn
• 34:03
  to keep the focus on ourselves. So much of the mothering, the managing, the manipulation and the martyrdom comes because we feel out of control within ourselves. We
• 34:14
  don't have yet what ashwaran, my teacher, ashwaran, talks about like that Sanctum Sanctorum. It's in there. We're just not aware of it. We do not have the location. We
• 34:24
  do not have the GPS. We are not aware of the longitude and the latitude of our own inner peace, where the love is, right? We're not always quite sure how to get there. We need
• 34:33
  a map. There's another m we need a map. And I'm really like, I love to help people. I love people. I love. Well, I do love people, but I love to help people come back home to
• 34:44
  the longitude and latitude of love, to come back to the truth of themselves, where they can find that inner peace, where they can find that love, and to give them a ton of
• 34:53
  tools. So if any of this resonates with you, you can either come join the nest, right? I always say Karen Kenney died. Com slash nest. Find out about my group program, my
• 35:02
  group coaching program, beautiful, community of human beings, lovely, glorious. It's a blast. We have so much fun. And also, you could work with me one to one in what I call
• 35:12
  the quest, which is one to one spiritual mentoring. But I bring to it all the tools, all the skills that I have, right? And it brings together, like my spiritual
• 35:21
  mentoring, subconscious reprogramming. I'm also a hypnotist, right? So conversational hypnosis, subconscious reprogramming, the somatic, so it's like the physical, the
• 35:31
  emotional, the mental, the spiritual, mind, body, spirit, all coming down to like love. It's the love. It's all about the love. That's what it's about, right? And so I hope
• 35:41
  this has given you some things to think about. I always say, I'm not here to tell you what to think, but it's always an invitation to think more critically, more
• 35:49
  deeply, to become more self aware and really like when we talk about spreading love in the world, one of the one of the best ways that we can spread love is to be more self
• 35:58
  aware, to understand how we are showing up in the world. And I always say, right, going the difference between going out into the world, inflicting yourself on people, versus
• 36:09
  going out in a more inspired way, right? With, with, with connection to something greater than you, the God of your own understanding, and showing up from that
• 36:19
  place, grounded in a place of love, so that we are choosing our actions rather just reacting out of trauma and habit and patterns. Um, so, yeah. So be kind to
• 36:31
  yourself if you do recognize some of these things again, this is not about shaming ourselves. This is more about like, shining a spotlight and going like, Oh, this is so
• 36:39
  interesting. I do do that. What's that about? Like, asking these questions of ourselves. When did I learn that? When did I learn that behavior?
• 36:52
  Why did that become a good idea? Like, why did that? What was I trying to like, protect myself from? You know, it's always not like that, that, that question, right, that
• 37:02
  spiritual question of like, not like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, why do you do that? Why didn't you do that? It's more like what happened to you. Because these
• 37:11
  things are a response. They are a reaction to some shit that went down in our own lives. And there's a reason why, if you find yourself and Al Anon, because here's the
• 37:23
  truth is, a lot of times you might have come up in a home that was really dysfunctional because of these patterns of addiction and behavior, but then it becomes what you know,
• 37:34
  and the brain is always looking for what it's what's familiar. You've heard me say it before, right? The brain would rather keep you in an unsafe known rather than a safe
• 37:44
  unknown. It doesn't like the uncertainty, even if the outcome could be a gazillion times more positive. So be kind. Kind. Be curious, not judgmental. Be kind, not cruel
• 37:56
  to yourself. What you need right now is your own compassion, not your contempt, if you recognize yourself in some of these behaviors, okay? And just thank you so much
• 38:08
  for listening. If you're still here for tuning in, I super duper appreciate it. And it is always, like I said, it's always my desire to be helpful in some way, and even
• 38:15
  that, like I've talked about this, I've joked about this before in the show, why am I such a helper? Pat Lee, yes, because I am of the generation of Bob Ross and Mr. Rogers
• 38:26
  and Sesame Street and the Muppets and zoom and like all these shows that, like that taught us about our humanity, right, and how to be decent human beings, because a lot of
• 38:37
  us weren't getting it in our homes, you know? And so we had some really great educational systems. So yeah, there's a part of me that loves to naturally help, and
• 38:47
  being a good helper is one of the ways right, that you stayed safe. That's that people pleasing pot, and that people pleasing muscle is one that I have had to
• 38:59
  try and let with uh, let it atrophy a little bit as I've gotten older, you know. So I can still see it in there. I can still see it in there. Every once in a while, it wants to,
• 39:10
  like, do everything for everybody. And I'm like, you can't. You cannot make everybody happy. It's just impossible. And certainly the one person who won't be happy if you're
• 39:18
  caught in that if you're caught in that loop. If you are caught in that pattern, in that cycle of drama, that cycle of trying to do it all for everyone, all on your own, is
• 39:29
  you're going to end up really unhappy yourself. So you guys, thank you so much for being here, wherever you go, wherever you go. May you leave the people, the place, the
• 39:42
  animals, the environment and yourself better than when you first found it. Wherever you go, may you and your presence in your energy and your love be a blessing. Bye, you.