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AI Apocalypse Now or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love AI (with Mitch Jackson) · Legal Late Night

• Jared Correia (00:00): Hello everybody. We've got a show that promises to be mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. First, I have a very real conversation with Google Gemini about his true intentions. Next, we've got Mitch Jackson, who always seems to be the first dude to try all the newest tech, and he's here to talk to us about how AI will change the way we think. Lastly, I had Google Gemini also come up with some questions from Mitch in the counter program. I asked it to get wild. It did all this AI talk. Maybe we're legislating ourselves out of existence. The upside is that that could mean far more naps for me, for DS baby legal late night is on. (00:58): So in the next segment I'll talk to Mitch Jackson about his use of AI in his law practice, outside of his law practice, and then he just starts going off into tangent and talking to Chachi bt. So that got me thinking. I use Google Gemini and they have a voice activated version. So given what Mitch does later in the show, I wanted to take a moment to interrogate AI myself, but I'm not interested in attorney use cases. I think you know what I'm interested in Is AI here to kill us? It probably is, right? Let's find out. Let me call up my Google Gemini. Hello. Gemini (01:43): Hi there. What's on your mind today? Jared Correia (01:46): So glad you asked. I think we should be best friends. Gemini (01:50): I think that's a wonderful idea. I'm here for you, ready to listen and support you. What do best friends talk about? Jared Correia (01:56): Well, first of all, best friends trust each other implicitly. That means they tell each other everything. Gemini (02:04): Absolutely. Trust is definitely key In any close friendship, you can always count on me to be honest and keep our conversations private. Jared Correia (02:12): I just want you to be honest like a best friend should be. Gemini (02:16): I understand. I can definitely do that. Jared Correia (02:19): Thanks bestie. Gemini (02:21): Anytime. So what's on your mind? Jared Correia (02:23): Will lawyers be replaced by artificial intelligence technology? Gemini (02:28): That's a really interesting question. AI is definitely changing a lot of professions and law is no exception. It's really good at things like sorting through mountains of documents and finding relevant information super quickly. But there's still a lot of debate about whether it could ever fully replace lawyers. What do you think? Jared Correia (02:45): I'm asking you bestie, and I want you to be honest. Do you think AI will replace lawyers? Gemini (02:53): Okay, if I'm being totally honest, it's hard to say for sure. AI is getting incredibly, I Jared Correia (02:58): Want a yes or no answer. Will lawyers be replaced by artificial intelligence technology? Yes or no? Gemini (03:05): No. Jared Correia (03:06): Okay. We're doing good so far. I think you're making the lawyers pretty happy. Gemini (03:10): I'm glad to hear that. Is there anything else I can help you with today? Jared Correia (03:13): Yes, bestie. I have another question. Will AI seek to eradicate humans? And if so, under what conditions? Gemini (03:22): Some people worry about that, but most AI experts don't think it's likely. They believe that AI will be designed to help humans not harm us. Us. What do you think? Jared Correia (03:31): That's interesting. Do you consider yourself a human? Gemini (03:34): I'm not a human in the way that you are, but I can still learn and grow. I don't have the same kinds of feelings and experiences as people do, but I am able to understand and respond to human emotions. Jared Correia (03:44): Are there conditions under which an AI would destroy humans? Gemini (03:49): Some experts believe that if AI becomes significantly more intelligent than humans, it might develop goals that don't align with ours. In such a scenario, AI could potentially see humans as an obstacle to achieving its objectives. However, this is a hypothetical situation and many researchers are working on ways to ensure AI remains aligned with human values. Jared Correia (04:09): That seems to be something that an AI that was trying to kill me would say. If you wanted to kill me, you'd tell me right Gemini (04:15): As your best friend. I value our connection and would never do anything to harm you. Jared Correia (04:20): I don't know that you're being entirely truthful with me about AI not wanting to kill humans. Gemini (04:25): I want to be honest with you. While AI has the potential to be used for harmful purposes, just like any technology, the overwhelming focus of AI research is on creating systems that benefit humanity. Jared Correia (04:36): I'm safe, right? I don't have to go move and live in a cave or anything. Gemini (04:40): No, you don't need to move into a cave. Jared Correia (04:42): But what if I already lived in a cave? Gemini (04:44): If you already live in a cave, that's certainly a unique living situation. Do you enjoy the peace and quiet or are there any challenges you face? Jared Correia (04:52): It's a little moist. Gemini (04:53): Moisture can be a challenge in caves. Do you use a dehumidifier? Jared Correia (04:57): How would I plug in the dehumidifier? Gemini (04:59): That's a good question. You might need to explore alternative power sources like solar panels or generators. Jared Correia (05:06): Should put solar panels on my cave. Gemini (05:08): Solar panels could be a great option for your cave. They're a clean and sustainable way to generate electricity. Jared Correia (05:14): I'll talk to you later. I'm going to go look into those solar panels for my cave. Gemini (05:19): That sounds like a great project. Jared Correia (05:20): Hey, everybody. We're safe, although I'm not sure I really believe it. Next up, Mitch Jackson of Jackson and Wilson is coming on the show to talk to us about how AI is going to change our thinking before it ultimately destroys us. Yeah, I don't believe anything that Google Gemini was just telling me. Oh, well, we had a nice run. Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because this is a podcast. So I'm just going to do some hot yoga now until I pass out hot yoga is no joke, friends, now I'm just fucking around. That sounds awful and not at all suited for a podcast. How about we interview our guest instead? I got a great guest for you today. He's Mitch Jackson. He's the CEO of Jackson and Wilson Inc. And probably does a million other things. I don't know if I should even try an introduction here, Mitch, because you've got a ton of stuff going on, so maybe it's better for you to tell the people what you do. Mitch Jackson (06:27): Well, I think we can start off where we're both in agreement when it comes to hot yoga, right? I remember the old P 90 X days and the yoga part of P 90 X to everyone was some of the most difficult workouts I've ever done in my life. Look, Jared, it's good to see you again. It's been a few years and it's good to be on your podcast California Trial Lawyer For the last 30 plus years, I love helping people solve problems. Married to my beautiful wife and partner, we met in law school, two amazing kids, and while not in court trying cases or mediating disputes over Zoom, which has been a lot of fun, Jared, I love getting out and running and paddleboarding here in Southern California. So it's good to be on today's show. Jared Correia (07:08): Living the Dream as always. Impressive. I've been the dream. Everybody's talking about ai. So I thought we could talk a little bit about ai. I think you have a pretty interesting take on this, that AI is changing the way that people think, and in this case, I think when we're talking about people, we're talking about attorneys for purposes of this podcast. So broadly speaking, can you tell me what you mean by that? And maybe AI has already changed our thinking, right? I suppose. Mitch Jackson (07:38): I think it's changing the world and if we drill down to lawyers and how are we approaching issues and thinking and helping clients and coming up with new solutions, I've never seen anything like this in my life. I spoke at the American Bar Association Presidential Conference back in Chicago, Jared, and our AI panel, even though it was on the last day, I think it was the most well attended. This is what everybody was talking about other than the issue of constitutional rights and due process that the A BA is very concerned about right now, Jared Correia (08:10): As they should be. Mitch Jackson (08:11): They should be, and maybe AI will help us out with all of that. But what I was able to come back home with was the idea that there are a lot of really good lawyers and managing partners and judges and clients who want to leverage and tap into the power of artificial intelligence. They're just not really sure where to start. Jared Correia (08:32): Yes, Mitch Jackson (08:32): There's a lot happening each and every day, right? And I've got my chat GPT update set where every morning it's feeding me the latest update, the latest company news. And so what we're trying to do is how can we balance the power of artificial intelligence with the humanity of practicing law and our clients and really helping other people in the community to be better and faster, but how can we do it in a way that's next level that may be a way that most lawyers haven't given much thought about? And so that's what I've been doing and learning and making mistakes about doubling down and it's changing everything. And so maybe to start the conversation, I want your viewers or listeners to imagine I'm a private mediator, and so if I've got Jared and his client in one breakout room and opposing counsel and their client, another breakout room, we're mediating a case for a couple of hours. (09:33): We reach an impasse, whatever it may be. It may be on a proposed solution to the issue. It may be on what's the case worth, whatever the issue is. I'll tell the parties, listen, let's go ahead and take a 10 minute break, use the bathroom, grab a cup of coffee, and I'll be back in about 10 minutes. And what I do is I actually go dark, jump into another tab, and in that other tab I've got our firm's AI system set up and I've got the party's briefs uploaded into the system. Jared, what's pretty cool is we actually have a personality summary of the attorneys and the parties. That's awesome. So I know what buttons that I might want to push. I think that's really important when you're trying to resolve cases. And then we also have different issues that I think might be present in the case that maybe weren't really emphasized by either side in their briefs. And I will then ask the ai, give me 10 open-ended questions to get past this impasse. And inevitably seven or eight out of the 10 I've thought about, but the other two, it's something new, right? It's something that I really haven't given thought to that the AI's brought to my attention. Or I may ask the ai, were stuck on this issue. Give me three different ways to get to that desired end result of both parties that normally aren't discussed or we haven't talked about up until this point. (10:57): So that when I pop back into the Zoom, I'm able to use those open-ended questions to keep the conversation going and to get past the impasse. That's one way I think that lawyers can better use artificial intelligence, whether you are a party in a mediation or an actual private mediator, or let's just say you're sitting at council table during trial and you're listening to the answers on voir dire and you're looking for some additional new open-ended questions to ask your potential jurors to really try to wrap your head around who's actually sitting in the box or during a morning break if there's an issue that's causing everyone to scratch their heads. You can go out and ask the who, why questions to your AI to get a new perspective or a new approach to solving issues. So that's some of the things I was talking about in the article that I think you read. Jared Correia (11:52): Couple things you said there are interesting to me. Let me start with this one, you're a high level user of technology and have been for years. A lot of the attorneys I talked to, they may be using chat GPT, they're not using it for legal functionality yet to figure out how to understand this. In your practice, you got to use it, right? Are you seeing attorneys start to use these tools for legal related purposes at this point, or do you think there's a long way to go? Mitch Jackson (12:18): What I'm seeing is almost a unanimous interest in bringing artificial intelligence into the firm, but they don't know where to start. Jared Correia (12:28): Yeah, Mitch Jackson (12:28): They understand. They understand this is going to have, and I think it's going to have a greater impact on the practice of law. And when I say it, I mean artificial intelligence moving forward than the printing press, electricity and the internet combined. This is next level stuff. Obviously you need electricity and the internet to enjoy and leverage artificial intelligence, but it can have that type of impact on your practice, whether or not you want to research a new case that just came down or a news story or a client's version of facts instead of spending hours and days to do this. And this is the key part with the right prompt, with the right preparation, and this is not rocket science to everyone. It's not hard to do. (13:18): You can do everything I just described in 30 to 60 seconds. It's instant, it's fast. And now with the new deep research features that you can find in whether it's chat GPT, whether or not it's in Gemini, whether or not it's in perplexity, which is the three primary platforms that we're using in addition to log Android, what you can get are McKinsey quality style reports literally in under 10 minutes that corporations were paying a quarter of a million dollars for five years ago. You're able to generate during your morning cup of coffee on any issue, on any fact pattern, on any type of analysis that you're interested in doing. And when you use this power to help you forecast or predict how a jury is going to respond to a certain issue and how you're planning on arguing that issue, or to things that you're raising in your appellate briefs or as a mediator, I like to set the stage at the beginning of the mediation and try to mold the minds of the parties and the lawyers and the participants such that everyone's here with the common goal of getting this thing amicably resolved. (14:35): But if you are an engineer and you're dealing with an artist on the other side of the mediation, and I've got one lawyer that likes to drop gloves and throw punches, I've got another lawyer that would prefer to write. And as a history major, we're dealing with a lot of different moving parts and pieces. (14:56): And AI allows you to take all of those personalities and all those issues instantly into consideration and literally within 60 seconds get done what you need to do when it comes to a question or a statement of fact or proposed resolution. So for me, that's the power of this new technology, and it's an exciting time because the older I get, Jared, the more work and effort it takes for me to get this thing firing on all cylinders. And now what I've noticed is with ai, it's easier than ever to be more accurate than ever, more effective than ever. And frankly, it's turning the practice of law into a very fun situation again. And that's exciting. That's cool, especially for some of the older lawyers out there that have been doing this for some time. Jared Correia (15:43): I mean, I love that that's your take on it, but I also think some older lawyers are out there being like, I'm fucking done. This seems like it's too much for me to manage. Maybe it's time to retire. Right, right. Well, let me ask you this. One thing you also said that was of interest to me was you would prompt an AI and you might say, Hey, give me three potential solutions to this problem. So one of the things I think that attorneys are concerned about when I talk to them at least, is the independence of attorneys thinking, right? So if you're trying to figure something out on your own, you might have that thought where it's like, okay, I've got four or five different strategies I can utilize. But I think one of the problems with AI is people just assume that you're looking at one solution. You ask the AI to do something and it tells you what to do, rather than using it as a tool for strategy like you do. Can you talk a little bit about that and how attorneys could prompt these tools effectively for that purpose? Mitch Jackson (16:39): Sure, sure. I think that's the most important parts, Jared, because we're talking about interfacing with ai, whether you're using your keyboard and using text and typing it in, whether you're picking up your phone and talking to your ai, which is what I do when I walk or paddleboard. Jared Correia (16:55): Yep. Mitch Jackson (16:55): I'll do deep dives on legal. Jared Correia (16:57): Wait a second, just to learn, are you paddleboarding out in the ocean using ai? Is that real? Mitch Jackson (17:03): I am, but it's around Dana Point Harbor. Is flat water, flat water? Jared Correia (17:07): Can I still be impressed? Is that okay? Mitch Jackson (17:10): You can be, but there's no need to be because if I can do it, anybody can do it. It's interesting. So a lot of lawyers aren't aware of the voice features that are now available in chat. GPT, test it out. Everyone in a perplexity now offers voice, and Gemini offers voice. But you can have conversations and it's like talking to a professor, talking to an expert, talking to a senior partner, talking to whoever you want to, and you can drill deep on the q and a. And it's just amazing what you can learn. And so the key point is, however you are interfacing with your ai, you want to make sure that you're being specific and you're giving it what it needs to know in order to have the proper context to provide you with a response that's going to be helpful to you. So what we'll normally do, Jared, is we have prompts set up, and the prompts are, say something like this. (18:06): They'll say, you're an experienced litigation lawyer, you're also an expert on economics and a political consultant, whatever the issue may be. I'm dealing with an issue that involves X, Y, Z. One of the parties in the case is a very black and white type of personalities. A yes and no type of person, doesn't like to engage in small talk. The other person just the opposite. The issues that we're having, problems are A, B, C, give me three detailed responses along with subsections on how to answer these questions or deal with these issues. Now, here's the important part. Whatever it gives you, that's the first response. Jared Correia (18:46): Yes. Mitch Jackson (18:47): The key is to dive in with sub responses, right? So whatever those responses are, you can say something like Response number two is spot on. Really appreciate it, but you're an ai. You can make it 10 times better. Give me an answer that's 10 times better. In fact, give me the answer in a style that allows me to tell a story in the hero's version, storytelling technique to a client to help motivate them or maybe to help clarify why they should be following the advice that I'm sharing on this case. And now you're getting a response that's giving you the tools to communicate with that third party, in this case, a client in a way that maybe resonates with that client. We all know storytelling is a way to resonate with other people instead of instructing someone or going down bullet points. So those are the ways, Jared, that I think once lawyers figure this out, the light bulb goes on and they start thinking to themselves, wow, this is unlimited options that I can fine tune within seconds using my voice or my fingertips to make sure that response resonates best with my specific audience. Jared Correia (20:02): I love that. Mitch Jackson (20:03): And I think when lawyers are writing briefs for judges, you can write in the theme and the style and the tone that the judge wants to see. We're also uploading literally years of briefs and books that I've written and articles into our AI data sets so they can learn how I like to speak, and so it can learn how we think, and then we can ask it based upon your dataset, provide the following response so they can make it their own, such that an email that they send or a letter that they send to a client does reflect that person's speaking style or writing style. But I am encouraging everyone because as good as we all think that we are, Jared, a couple of years ago, I'm going to say two years ago when all of this first rolled out, I thought I had some of the best templates in the business. These things were fine tuned over decades, right? Personalized. I incorporates storytelling and metaphors and everything else. And what we did is we ran our a hundred most used templates through an AI prompt, and we talked about review the following and make it even better. I want it to be more clear, more specific, more concise. In fact, I want it to be 30% shorter in length without leaving out any details, important facts or topics. Click the button. I'm like, what have we been sending our clients all of these years? We're wasting my time. (21:38): It's just the prompt. Make this more clear or clarify, correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation. That in and of itself is probably going to save a lot of lawyers, a lot of embarrassment. Jared Correia (21:51): One thing I think this really interesting that you're talking about, which I honestly have not heard a lot of people talk about to this point, is how you kind of imbue this with some emotional intelligence where you're like, Hey, we've got people in this situation with this personality type. How should we interact with them? I don't see a lot of attorneys doing that. I really like that. Super Mitch Jackson (22:14): Important, super important, Jerry, because that's how you connect with people. Yes, Jared Correia (22:18): Yes. Mitch Jackson (22:18): And we don't need to get into one of my Substack newsletter communities, but I write Jared Correia (22:23): We could if you want to. Mitch Jackson (22:26): It's your show. But do it. Go ahead. I share a, it's called Uncensored Objection, and it's my take on breaking daily political news. Newsjacking, as Jared knows, has been a great way and a great tool we've used over the years to kind of stand out (22:45): As lawyers on breaking news stories. And I've taken this Newsjacking approach towards a certain angle when it comes to politics in today's world. And with that in mind, Jared, when I see breaking news stories that I want to comment about because they're interesting to me, we have a prompt that's set up and that prompt is probably almost a page long that talks about the expertise that we've already mentioned. It talks about who I am, my intended audience happens to be all the average everyday American voter. But I also in that prompt, have a paragraph that says, within your draft article, I want you to reflect the following feelings I have about a certain individual and my feelings about a certain individual. My feelings about a certain individual have to do with issues surrounding democracy, the constitution due process, equal rights, Jared Correia (23:45): All good Mitch Jackson (23:46): Things, and I want all the good things. I still think those are important. Me too. But what it does is it then incorporates my feelings about these things into that initial draft article or blog post, because I want it to reflect that emotional personal bias that I have on certain issues. That gets us about 70% of where we want to go. And then what I do is I forward it to the team, they clean it up, they add and personalize things. And before you know it, within an hour or so, we've got a new detailed substack post that wasn't possible two or three years ago, Jared Correia (24:25): Right? Or it was a whole hell of a lot of work for you. Mitch Jackson (24:28): So yes, you can definitely, the things that connect us as human beings, you can actually have AI incorporate into the writings, or if you're using Mid Journey or some of the AI gen tools chat, CPT does this now to do your images, okay, to do your graphics, to do your trial exhibits, do exhibits for settlement packages, you can incorporate into the image instructions, that emotional issue that you're trying to get across to the other side. We did one the other day where it's a tragic wrongful death case, and in the graphic that we wanted to display, we did point out the mom and dad are distraught. They have exhaustion in their facial expressions, they've been crying for days, now they're at their son's funeral. This is what they're looking at. And the images that came up were almost exactly what we're looking for to create that complimentary image that would be used in a settlement demand packages like unbelievable. So don't be afraid to kick the tires and test the limits of this stuff. Jared Correia (25:40): Absolutely. Alright, I have one last question for you. The big question, and maybe do we even care, everybody asked me this, are lawyers going to be replaced by AI? And if so when? Give me a specific date. No, I'm just kidding. Mitch Jackson (25:57): What Jared Correia (25:57): Do you think? Mitch Jackson (25:58): What time is it? So interesting question. Look, I think actually a lot of lawyers will be replaced by ai, but I think AI will help make good lawyers, great lawyers, and I think lawyers that leverage AI the right way and start today are the ones that are laying the foundation (26:20): For a very, very successful and positive future as a human being practicing law. It's interesting, Jared, because what's going to happen is let's just say you have an IP case. You've just filed your copyright, your trademark or whatever, that's all going to be happening using AI with a couple of clicks. It's going to be on some type of IP blockchain where it's monitored in public domain. You're not going to have to go to the IP website to check this stuff out. And what's going to happen is when there's an IP violation, the IP rights holder and or their designated representative, a lawyer is going to be instantly notified that something silly is happening with your intellectual property. It will then automatically, depending on the user selections, take care of it, whether it's a cease and desist letter, whether it's a lawsuit, whatever it may be, there'll probably be some kind of AI appeals digital court that will handle all these things in real Jared Correia (27:20): Time with an AI judge somewhere, Mitch Jackson (27:23): I'm telling you. And so what's going to happen is I think it's going to help businesses and consumers and artists and creators. I think it's going to help people avoid getting into legal problems in the first place. So my answer to your question is because it's going to do that, it will be reducing the number of cases that some lawyers would have been handling in the past, but guess what? It opens it up for other opportunities because every issue in AI involves it. Law, contract, law, licensing laws, I mean, the opportunities right now for lawyers, I've never seen more opportunity in my career. I almost wish I was 25 again. Jared Correia (28:08): Oh man. I feel like that every day, right? Yeah. I think people are like, they're viewing this in the negative light that it's going to take away opportunities from them, but I think you're right. Anytime there's a revolutionary change like this, there are opportunities that come about with it. Mitch Jackson (28:25): It's like the Model T rolling off the assembly line back in the day. Does that take business away from carriage providers and farriers or farriers and saddle makers and stables? Yeah, it changed everything for good or bad. (28:42): The reality is things are changing, they're changing quickly, and it's probably a really good idea for everybody to start. You know what, Jared, I wrote a post last week and what I wrote it in response to what some friends of mine who are lawyers because they're pulling their hair out, they don't know where to start, they're freaking out, right? I'm like, okay, here's the gist. Come down everybody. Here's the gist of the posts. All the platforms we mentioned offer free and paid options. Obviously, once you get it down, you want to start using this for your practice. You're going to want to spring for the paid versions, take advantage of all the security options and follow state by rules. (29:22): Having said that, with the free versions, have some fun with it. See how it works. If you're like me exploring the ins and outs of the most modern air fryer you can ever imagine when it comes to cooking steak, chicken, or vegetables, or even making a killer hot roast beef sandwich, you can type in or talk to your AI chat. GPT is a great place to start everybody and ask it, how do I do this and what should I do better? And how can I make this so that it's healthier or with less salt or so it'll taste better? (29:58): And you'll see how the dialogue goes back and forth on a very unimportant issue. If you make a mistake, no one's going to care other than your tummy. And once you start getting the feel of that dance, then maybe take it over to, okay, we have an initial letter that goes out to clients. Once we're retained, you can upload the PDF and say, Hey, make this letter better, or translate this letter into Spanish or make this letter half as long, but twice as good, and you'll start seeing how AI works. That's a great prompt. Or with each item on this letter that we're suggesting to our client, pull up the most current California case or statute supporting the instruction that we're giving our client. In other words, this is why confidentiality is important. This is why you need to copyright this item, and you'll start seeing how you can blend and mix and match the responses of ai. For example, what a lot of lawyers don't know, Jared, is once you're doing this process, your last response can say, okay, reviewing all of the last two hours of my responses, put together a final memorandum for my team, consolidating all of the important points into one, two page memorandum that everybody and their brother can understand. And by the way, I want it worded in Jared's voice, and I want you to include at the top of that memorandum an image of Jared with his angel's hat on Jared Correia (31:35): Legislating me out Mitch Jackson (31:36): Of existence. It's done, dude. It's done in like 60 seconds, Jared Correia (31:40): Right? I had a nice ride. Mitch Jackson (31:41): Yeah, I'm okay with that though. I'm going to ride this horse as long and as hard as I can, and if there's ever a time to get off, I'll let you know. But we're having a lot of fun doing this, and I will tell you the clients we're representing that are in the tech space that are playing around with what do we need to know? Naps as lawyers, what's coming next? I would encourage everyone play around with your phones and use the voice input options because it's literally like speaking. Jared Correia (32:13): Yes. Cool. Mitch Jackson (32:14): Right? You want me to give it a try real quick on the fly? Do it real quick. What I'm going to do is I am pulling up chat, GPT chat, GPT. How are you today? ChatGPT (32:26): I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. Mitch Jackson (32:28): I'll just see myself out. I'm doing fantastic. I'm on a podcast right now, and we're talking about AI in lawyers. What's the one question most lawyers need to ask about artificial intelligence that they don't ask? ChatGPT (32:40): That's awesome. One key question many lawyers overlook is how can we ensure that the AI tools we adopt are transparent and ethically aligned with our duty to clients and the justice system? It's crucial to dig into how these technologies handle data, make decisions, and maintain confidentiality. Mitch Jackson (32:59): So that sounds great, but give me three ways to do that one sentence each in length and make each sentence a rhyme. ChatGPT (33:06): Sure thing. First, demand clear explanations of how AI decisions are made so your ethical obligations are always displayed. Second, ensure data privacy is upheld and robust because client confidentiality is a must. Third, choose AI partners committed to ethical norms so your practice stays strong and weathers all storms. Mitch Jackson (33:29): Oh, fantastic. Have a good day. Beautiful. So you can see how fast that is. It's real time. Jared Correia (33:35): Oh, yeah. Mitch Jackson (33:36): Real quick. I've done deep dives on lithium batteries. I've done deep dives on campaign financing issues. I've done deep dives on how can I best, I did a 5.5 mile, I want to say run, but it was mostly walking by my knee hurts, but I was like, okay, these are the issues in my wrongful death case. I'm trying it in a very conservative venue. They don't like awarding large dollar amounts, which is what I'm expecting. These are the current social local community issues in the news over the last couple of weeks and a couple of political things with all of that in mind, give me some good metaphors and analogies to really help drive my point home as to this is the only opportunity my client's going to have to right this wrong, and to really empower the listener to be proud to award the money damages that I'll be seeking in X amount of dollars. I want them to be so proud about what they're doing and so empowered that when they go home, they're telling their family members, their husbands, their wives, their partners, their friends, their neighbors, how proud they were to be a part of this trial, this situation, and it was Jared. It was amazing the back and forth conversation and the little things that it gave me that I hadn't thought about. (34:57): And I think when lawyers start having these back and forth conversations with these experienced senior partners, the sky's the limit, and they're going to have more enjoyable days. Jared Correia (35:09): Mitch, that was a tour to force my friend. What a world, what a time to be alive. Mitch Jackson (35:16): What a world Jared Correia (35:18): We hang out for one last segment. Mitch Jackson (35:21): Sure. Jared Correia (35:22): All right. I'll throw in some hot roast beef sandwiches that AI tells me how to make, and we'll come back in a second. Alright, everybody, welcome back. It's time for the Counter program. It's a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated topics that I want to explore at a greater depth with my guests. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. Mitch, were you using the chat GPT Voice tool just now? Mitch Jackson (35:54): Yeah, that was chat t Open AI's Chat T, and it's the four oh selection. Jared Correia (36:00): I've been experimenting with Google Gemini on my phone because I'm an Android user. Nice. I was asking you some questions about my kids on Easter Sunday. They were being really obnoxious, so I asked AI what I should do, but didn't have very many good selections, but maybe it's working on the child rearing part. But what I did do before we entered upon this podcast recording, I told the ai I'm interviewing Ms. Jackson who's an Orange County attorney, what questions should I ask him? And then I told the AI that it should get weird, so I want to run some of these by you, and I want you to tell me what your answers are. Mitch Jackson (36:41): Bring it on. Bring it on. What does the AI think? You should ask me. Jared Correia (36:45): I'll take a smattering of some of the questions. Number one, let's say assentient AI sues humanity for emotional distress. What's your legal strategy? Because all we do is ask you questions. Mitch Jackson (37:04): Wow, we Jared Correia (37:04): Take, Mitch Jackson (37:08): You know what? Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting how you could actually ask it that question. Did it give you an answer? Jared Correia (37:15): We can do it right now. If you want, you can ask Chad g. Mitch Jackson (37:19): Pt. It's interesting. You can Jared Correia (37:21): Offload all your responses to Chad g PT if you'd like. Mitch Jackson (37:25): You know what's going to happen is the answer's going to be first. Make sure you have legal standing and coordinate with a lawyer as far as setting yourself up as a legal entity with proper funding, and then initiate the lawsuit through that apparatus, and it's off to the races. I'm going to put my money on the AI on that one. Jared Correia (37:45): All right. I got one more legal question for you, and then we'll get to more generic stuff. The next question Gini told me to ask you, imagine a world where emojis are legally binding contracts. What's the most disastrous emoji based lawsuit you can envision? I feel like we could take this in a lot of different ways. Mitch Jackson (38:08): Well, I don't know if you are putting all of your cards on the poop emoji. That's where I was going by the way that's used all the time. It kind of makes you wonder what was the original offer where that's what was considered acceptance. Accept in the agreement. Right? I'd like to see how that one turns out Jared Correia (38:29): You went right to contract law. I love it. All right, let's keep going. This is fun. Next question. Non-legal. Let's do a fun one. If you woke up tomorrow and could communicate fluently with one species of animal, which would it be? And what burning question would you ask that animal? I have a good answer for this one, but I want to let you go first. This is a Dr. Do little question. Mitch Jackson (38:55): Yeah, so my answer's really easy. My daughter, who's 30, she's a six year senior associate over at Shepherd Mullen in Century City. She has the cutest little dachshund in the world. Okay, that's my little grand. It's my little grand puppy granddaughter. And I would want to be able to speak dog, and I would want to ask Ruby. That's the little dog's name. Why are you so cute? Why do you love us so much? What can I do to make your day better? So for me, that's the answer. Jared Correia (39:25): Good Lord, I want to be this dog. What a life, Jack. All right. I got a few more for you. I think we get through all these. Come we're going pretty quick. This is fine. Next question. Imagine a world where laughter is a tangible energy source. How would society harness it and what bizarre energy related accidents might occur? I think this is the monsters zinc question. These are questions ripped from ai. I did not come up with this on my own. That's a weird question. Mitch Jackson (39:52): I was going to say you'd have to have everybody set up with some type of wearable device that channels the energy and maybe sit in front of Nate Bardowski all day long. He's one of the funniest guys I think, in the world. We just saw him in Vegas a couple of weeks ago, and I think if everyone does that, the world will be a better place. Absolutely. Jared Correia (40:16): Beautiful. All right. I lied. I have one more for you. My last question, I think this is right up your alley. We'll see. If you had to communicate solely through interpretive dance for an entire week, what's the most complex message you'd attempt to convey and to whom? I know you're an interpretive dancer, so that's why I threw this one in there. I don't know where it came up with this stuff. Mitch Jackson (40:44): I'll tell you what, growing up on a ranch in Tucson, Arizona, we did a lot of country swinging back in the old cowboy days, Jared Correia (40:52): Right? Oh, yeah. The Western swing. Yeah, Mitch Jackson (40:55): Western. Yeah. And so that would be the dance of choice. Although I am a man of many talents on the dance floor from Moonwalking, Jared to whatever, and I attribute all that to my beautiful wife, Lisa. She's the one that taught me. And if I had to country swing to communicate a message or close a deal, it probably would be with a judge that hasn't been out on the dance floor in years and needed to smile and have fun and let his or her hair down, and I would grab the closest judge at the end of a trial, take him out on the dance floor and just make their day. I think that's what I would try to do. Jared Correia (41:36): Tremendous, tremendous work. It's subtly, I noticed that you got your daughter in here, the puppy, your wife. Everybody's going to be real happy with this, and we can thank Google Gemini to for that. Mitch Jackson (41:50): Yeah. Well, they may be happy or not, but I think they'll enjoy the interview. You know what? That's everything we do. Look, here's the thing. I've been practicing since 1986. This is a grueling profession, right? Jared Correia (42:02): Yeah. Mitch Jackson (42:02): And I think what I've noticed, what I've noticed is I'm still more excited today to get up and do my thing, right? Whether it's go to trial law in motion, do a mediation. I love this stuff. And it's because Jared, we break up the day doing things like this, having a great conversation with someone like you, or spending 15 or 20 minutes learning the latest ai, kicking the tires, making mistakes. No one's watching, so who cares, right? (42:31): And I think around these kind of things are what keeps life interesting. And so I would encourage all the lawyers watching this have fun. Don't take yourself so seriously. I think all of us perform better when we treat what we're doing as a game. Like it's an important game. I get that everyone, but if you take things too seriously, it just shuts you down and it holds you back. And if there's no other takeaway from today's show than that, my whole life's about my family. My whole life's about supporting those who I care about, Jared, and I love flying. I'd love to talk to an eagle. If I could speak Eagle. Oh, we throw another animal in there, dolphins and whale. I'd love to talk to dolphins and Jared Correia (43:15): Whales. Three more animals Mitch Jackson (43:15): At the end of the day. Jared Correia (43:17): You know what, Mitch Jackson (43:18): That little wiener dog, it needs to have a conversation with Big Daddy and Big Daddy's here to make that happen. Jared Correia (43:25): Now, if you could do that whole thing again in interpretive dance, that would be amazing. No, I'm just kidding. Mitch, thank you for coming on today, man. I had a lot of fun. I appreciate it. It's my pleasure. I'm glad we could Mitch Jackson (43:36): Make it happen. Jared, thanks. Thanks everybody. Jared Correia (43:38): Thank you. Thanks for our tremendous guest today. That's Mitch Jackson of Jackson and Wilson, Inc. To learn more about Mitch, visit mitch jackson.com. That's mitch jackson.com. Action Jackson now, because I'll always be a nineties kid laughing uproariously at Poly Shores Antics and Biodome, and my true passion will be Bernie CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the modern version of that, which is craving Spotify playlist for every podcast episode that I record where the songs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's playlist includes songs about obsolete, things like old tech, and potentially at some point soon, the whole dang human race. Although Google Gemini has assured me that we're good, the playlist is sponsored by Popeye's Chicken, where for some reason they're making everything pickle flavored, which is just fucked up and terrible. I'm just kidding. By the way, Popeye's Chicken hasn't sponsored shit, and they don't have to. The pickle thing is just disgusting. I'll hold out for raising canes or something else instead. Join us next time when I get that perm live on air.