Latest / She's On The Money / Emma Edwards Stopped Shopping for 365 Days and Accidentally Fixed Her Finances (Plus Her Relationship With Money and Herself)

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Emma Edwards Stopped Shopping for 365 Days and Accidentally Fixed Her Finances (Plus Her Relationship With Money and Herself) · She's On The Money

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  Speaker 1: My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations
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  Speaker 1: woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya, Niana,
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  Speaker 1: Kaka yah y and beIN Ahaka Nian our gay In Nimbini,
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  Speaker 1: yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Umagahawakaman, damon Imlan Bumba, bang Gadabomba in
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  Speaker 1: and now in wakah Ghana on yak rum Jar water Nadaa. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
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  Speaker 1: We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that
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  Speaker 1: we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
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  Speaker 1: and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
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  Speaker 1: podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
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  Speaker 1: knowledge and resources for you to thrive.
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  Speaker 2: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
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  Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
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  Speaker 3: that's here to help you spend, save and invest in
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  Speaker 3: line with your values. No, I am not Victoria Devine
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  Speaker 3: and she's not even here today. I've given her the
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  Speaker 3: day off because I wanted to do something special. I'm
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  Speaker 3: Jess Ricky and today we're talking about something that sits
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  Speaker 3: right at the intersection of money, identity, and self worth.
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  Speaker 3: Our wardrobes. You know that feeling when you're staring at
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  Speaker 3: a closet full of clothes but still think to yourself, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I've got nothing to wear. Well, my guest today knows
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  Speaker 3: it better than anyone. She's someone we've had on. She's
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  Speaker 3: on the money before. She's the founder of the Broke
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  Speaker 3: Generation and the author of the brand new brook The
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  Speaker 3: Wardrobe Project, A year Buying Less and Liking yourself More.
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  Speaker 3: I've invited Emma Edwards into the studio today to talk
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  Speaker 3: about how a No Bay Yar changed not just her wardrobe,
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  Speaker 3: but her entire relationship with spending, confidence, and identity. Welcome
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  Speaker 3: back to the show, Emma.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me again. Oh just
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  Speaker 2: to move so excited to see you.
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  Speaker 3: I have been an avid follower of the whole Wardrobe journey,
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  Speaker 3: from when you did it your very first short challenge,
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  Speaker 3: all the way through. I cannot tell you how excited
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  Speaker 3: I am to talk to you a bit more about
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  Speaker 3: it and what you've learned and the book.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you.
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  Speaker 4: It's been a long time coming, I think because I
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  Speaker 4: did the original challenge in like twenty twenty three. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: documented it all and now it's immortalized in a book.
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  Speaker 3: As it should be. And I feel like it's exactly
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  Speaker 3: as I said. It's something that so many of us
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  Speaker 3: can relate to, right, Like that feeling of standing in
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  Speaker 3: your closet and looking at like killos and killos of clothes.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, like there's nothing in here, not one suitable
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  Speaker 3: thing is crazy. So I'm very excited to get your
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  Speaker 3: thoughts on how we can kind of work around our
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  Speaker 3: mindset on that. But before we start, I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: go back to who you were before the Wardrobe project.
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  Speaker 3: Can you paint me a little bit of a picture
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  Speaker 3: of the old Emma Edwards, not just the kind of
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  Speaker 3: shopper that you were, but what you were going through
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  Speaker 3: I guess on a deeper level.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go.
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  Speaker 4: All the way back. I mean it's a funny one
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  Speaker 4: for me. I think writing a book like this and
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  Speaker 4: doing this challenge because everyone's like, didn't you write the
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  Speaker 4: book called Good with Money?
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  Speaker 2: Like aren't you meant to be really good at money?
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  Speaker 5: No?
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  Speaker 3: No?
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  Speaker 4: And I think that's where it got really interesting for
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  Speaker 4: me because for me, before this challenge.
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  Speaker 2: You know, way we were back.
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  Speaker 4: Was a hot money mess, I always called myself, but
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  Speaker 4: kind of in the year leading up to the challenge specifically,
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  Speaker 4: I'd done so much work on my finances. I've got
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  Speaker 4: so many of my ducks in a row, but there
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  Speaker 4: was just this one kind of nagging area of spending
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  Speaker 4: and my kind of I guess behavior that was still
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  Speaker 4: I don't want to say a problem, but it wasn't
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  Speaker 4: kind of fitting into the same boxes that the other
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  Speaker 4: things that I'd worked on in my money had. I
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  Speaker 4: wasn't spending money I didn't have anymore, but I was
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  Speaker 4: still buying things with this sort of cycle of an
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  Speaker 4: emotional high followed by a crash. And I used to
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  Speaker 4: kind of do that with all kinds of things, and
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  Speaker 4: my money in general would be very chaotic. But I
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  Speaker 4: started to get on top of that sort of in
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  Speaker 4: twenty eighty and I started that journey. End of twenty nineteen,
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  Speaker 4: I paid off my debt. Then twenty twenty, you know,
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  Speaker 4: we started to have lockdowns and things, but I was
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  Speaker 4: lucky enough to keep my job and I was side
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  Speaker 4: hustling at the time, so you know, I was saving
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  Speaker 4: and I was still making that kind of progress. But
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  Speaker 4: I think particularly here in Melbourne. You know, by twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty two, we were only a deep breath away from
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  Speaker 4: the last lockdown.
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  Speaker 3: It simultaneously feels so long ago, and also it honestly
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  Speaker 3: feels like yesterday as well. I can't begin to explain it.
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  Speaker 3: Trying to tell people who weren't here during those lockdowns
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  Speaker 3: feels impossible.
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  Speaker 4: Exactly, especially when I tell this timeline and I was like, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: you know, twenty twenty two, I started to think about
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  Speaker 4: doing this year without buying clothes, and they're like, what
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  Speaker 4: do you mean that was right after lockdown.
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  Speaker 2: I'm like, we came out of lockdown October twenty twenty one.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we didn't know if we were going to
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  Speaker 4: you know, the first half of twenty twenty two, we
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  Speaker 4: were like, well, when's the next one? Like, when's Lockdown seven?
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  Speaker 4: And I think, like a lot of women, I had
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  Speaker 4: an interesting experience during lockdown in that my relationship with
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  Speaker 4: my body was just like thrown into.
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  Speaker 2: The dumpster fire.
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  Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more.
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  Speaker 4: I discovered getting wine delivered to my house. I drank
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  Speaker 4: a lot ate, a lot of cheese, and like I've
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  Speaker 4: always been like a bigger gal, like a little.
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  Speaker 2: Bit chunky or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: But I was sort of around that the same time,
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  Speaker 4: you know, getting back to the point of like accepting
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  Speaker 4: my body's natural set point. And you know, I'd had
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  Speaker 4: just sort of eating problems in the past, I'd sort
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  Speaker 4: of really made good progress on, but then being stuck
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  Speaker 4: inside and kind of dealing with rapid body changes as
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  Speaker 4: well as kind of going back out into the world
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  Speaker 4: and back into work and nothing fitting. And you know,
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  Speaker 4: loads of people bought clothes online during COVID even though
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  Speaker 4: we had nowhere to go.
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  Speaker 2: I was one of those people.
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  Speaker 3: Small bit of joy, any bit of joy we could.
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  Speaker 4: Get, literally, And I really went through this sort of
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  Speaker 4: cycle of trying to reinvent myself and wanting to emerge
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  Speaker 4: from lockdown a different person or a more polished person,
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  Speaker 4: or you know, really wanting to like put this. I
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  Speaker 4: guess it's probably something to do with wanting to make
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  Speaker 4: all of that lost time mean something. I went into
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  Speaker 4: lockdown in my twenties came out in my thirties, Yeah, wow,
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  Speaker 4: And that was you know, everybody's got their own kind
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  Speaker 4: of experience with the years that they missed, but yeah,
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  Speaker 4: for me, I'd had a lot of things I wanted
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  Speaker 4: to feel about myself by the time I was thirty,
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  Speaker 4: and I don't think I would have got them anyway
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  Speaker 4: because of where that feeling was coming from. But I
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  Speaker 4: think lockdown made that even worse. And so, yeah, before
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  Speaker 4: the challenge, I was really in this cycle of constantly
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  Speaker 4: reinventing myself and buying things for the person that I
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  Speaker 4: wanted to be, and kind of having this idea in
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  Speaker 4: my head of what something was going to look like
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  Speaker 4: on me or what it was going to change, you know,
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  Speaker 4: how it was going to change my life, the lifestyle
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  Speaker 4: it was going to give me, and then not getting that, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: And that's when I started to think, Oh, this is
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  Speaker 4: really lingering. This is one part of my behavior that
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  Speaker 4: I'm not able to control. Sounds really restrictive, but I
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  Speaker 4: don't feel good about yeah, And that's when I started
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  Speaker 4: to think about what would it be like to just
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  Speaker 4: not buy anything for a whole year.
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  Speaker 3: And that's a very radical thought to have, especially in
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  Speaker 3: this day and age, I feel, because exactly what you
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  Speaker 3: were touching on. I guess the broader psychology of it
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  Speaker 3: all is, you know, so much of marketing leans into
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  Speaker 3: you're going to feel a satin way become a certain
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  Speaker 3: person by owning this product. It's this idea that we're
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  Speaker 3: sold by influencers, by brands, by everything, but the thought
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  Speaker 3: of making it through a whole year. I remember when
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  Speaker 3: you first announced it on your Instagram because I followed
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  Speaker 3: you forever. I remember when you said it. I was like, conceptually,
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  Speaker 3: I love it, but I simply could never do it
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  Speaker 3: because I feel like it's so hard for me to
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  Speaker 3: imagine stepping outside of the consumers. And I guess and
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  Speaker 3: I wouldn't consider myself like a crazy consumer. I try
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  Speaker 3: to be very mindful and very conscious, but you're totally right,
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  Speaker 3: like the way that it all plays into our broader
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  Speaker 3: perception of ourselves, you know, and what that means. Stepping
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  Speaker 3: away from that and saying no, I'm not going to
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  Speaker 3: buy it at all is almost unfathomable to me. And
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  Speaker 3: I don't feel great about that.
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  Speaker 4: No, I'm glad that, you know, when you speak to
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  Speaker 4: somebody that really relates to the things that I'm saying,
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  Speaker 4: they're like, wow, yours. Get a couple of people that
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  Speaker 4: are like, oh, I haven't bought clothed since nineteen seventy nine,
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  Speaker 4: and I'm like grid very hard bright, Yeah, good for you,
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  Speaker 4: and it's one of those things that you know, we
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  Speaker 4: kind of a lot of people experience this kind of
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  Speaker 4: borderline addictive cycle with buying clothes and things or buying
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  Speaker 4: anything associated to your identity.
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  Speaker 2: But we don't really talk about it.
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  Speaker 4: And I'm so I'm always so stunned that we are
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  Speaker 4: so willing nowadays to examine our behavior and examine ourself
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  Speaker 4: sabotaging patterns in every single area apart from spending.
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  Speaker 2: We're so secretive about it with spending, and.
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  Speaker 4: We pretend that we've got it all together, or we
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  Speaker 4: justify things and say, oh, you know, it's this or
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  Speaker 4: it's that, and it's okay because X, Y and z.
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  Speaker 4: But there's actually so much to be learned about yourself.
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  Speaker 2: Through the way that you're spending.
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  Speaker 4: And I think while a lot of women's spending, the
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  Speaker 4: things that we buy are seen as frivolous, but also
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  Speaker 4: examining your spending is also seen as a frivolous pursuit.
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  Speaker 4: A lot of the time, I'll get sort of like,
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  Speaker 4: it's not mockery, but it's sort.
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  Speaker 3: Of momentary from people, yeah that oh.
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  Speaker 4: You're you know, how dare you talk about what women
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  Speaker 4: are buying when there's actually so much to be learned,
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  Speaker 4: and there's a lot of them to be found when
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  Speaker 4: you unparck why you're buying things.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and also, don't punish us for being a product
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  Speaker 3: of the net that you built for us, in the
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  Speaker 3: box that you built for us. It really, I think
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  Speaker 3: disproportionately impacts women because of you know, the generations and
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  Speaker 3: generations of patriarchy, and women should look a certain way,
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  Speaker 3: like you can't go into the office without looking put together,
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  Speaker 3: your hair, you're done, your makeup, your outfit, like all
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  Speaker 3: of these things that are put on us. But then
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  Speaker 3: as soon as you care about it or want to
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  Speaker 3: break it down or want to examine it, it's, oh, well,
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  Speaker 3: don't be silly. They don't be frivolous. It's really interesting.
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  Speaker 3: I think the way that that impacts everybody. It sounds
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  Speaker 3: like you had to set yourself some ground rules to
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  Speaker 3: get going. So you've decided to do this challenge, You've gone,
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  Speaker 3: I want to step back, I want to figure it
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  Speaker 3: all out. What rules did you put in place for yourself?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just kind of add on a bit. You
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  Speaker 2: know a lot of people go what made you decide
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  Speaker 2: to actually do it?
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  Speaker 4: And aside from the fact that it was getting towards
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  Speaker 4: the end of the year and I had the opportunity
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  Speaker 4: to do a really clean Jan to December. Yeah, I
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  Speaker 4: was in the UK for the last month of twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty two, and i'd been back twice that year because
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  Speaker 4: it was the first time since twenty nineteen. So I
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  Speaker 4: was like, oh, the borders were open, let's go. And
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  Speaker 4: I kind of realized that i'd been thinking about it.
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  Speaker 4: But the thing that really was the nail in the
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  Speaker 4: coffin was I was, you know, shopping around. I love
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  Speaker 4: to shop in the UK because they've got a lot
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  Speaker 4: more plus size options than we had here in Australia.
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  Speaker 4: I was sort of seeing all these things and it
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  Speaker 4: was a different season to when I was there the
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  Speaker 4: last time, and I was thinking, oh, you know, having
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  Speaker 4: all these you know, creative stories evolving in my head
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  Speaker 4: of how great these things were going to look. And
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  Speaker 4: I was suddenly struck by the fact that I had
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  Speaker 4: those same thoughts about the things that I bought when
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  Speaker 4: I was there the last time into but now those
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  Speaker 4: things were not as special as I thought they were
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: going to be, or they were, as I would later learn,
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  Speaker 4: like quite big purchase mistakes and That's when I kind
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: of thought, yeah, I think there's really going to be
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  Speaker 4: something valuable here. So I embarked on it from January first,
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  Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, and my rules were it was specifically clothing.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 4: And a lot of people go, why wasn't it you know,
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  Speaker 4: why wasn't it a no buy about everything? And firstly,
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  Speaker 4: I think that would be really hard and really restrictive,
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  Speaker 4: but also a bit like I'd said, you know, I'd
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  Speaker 4: worked on so many areas of my spending and I
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: wasn't over consuming in skin care or beauty or even
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: you know, I'd stopped using takeaway apps for a period
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  Speaker 4: of time, and I found that really helped. I'm quite
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  Speaker 4: good at a challenge environment to really step back and
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  Speaker 4: examine why I'm doing things. I find that abstinence really
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  Speaker 4: helps me do that. And so clothes were a really
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  Speaker 4: specific part of it. It wasn't shoes, it wasn't bags,
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  Speaker 4: it was specifically clothes. In fact, I probably under consumed
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  Speaker 4: in accessories to the point that I wasn't, you know,
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  Speaker 4: tying outfits together. It was all about, I think, because
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  Speaker 4: it was so deeply related to my body image. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and my relationship with my body. It was the clothes
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  Speaker 4: that with a thing. So I didn't specifically ban shoes,
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  Speaker 4: although I later did bring in a shoe band just
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: because I found I was flirting a little bit with
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  Speaker 4: you know, oh, I can't buy close to what look
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: at shoes and I was thinking, oh, you know, I didn't.
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  Speaker 2: I think I bought a pair of Crocs during the year.
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  Speaker 3: That was it.
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  Speaker 2: And again is it really? They're not like an outfit.
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  Speaker 4: So I wasn't too worried about that, but it was
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: very specifically no clothes. And I also banned second hand
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: shopping because a lot of people were like, oh, why
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  Speaker 4: don't you just do you secondhand or you know, I'm
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: doing it too, but just secondhand. But the problem I
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: had with secondhand that was that it was just permission
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  Speaker 4: to consume. It's like over consumption with a clean conscience
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  Speaker 4: for me, and the thrill of the hunt and the
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  Speaker 4: dopamine seeking and the you know that all of the
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: barriers that would usually stop you buying clothes, you know, price, availability, size,
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: you know, those sorts of things were all gone when
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: I was thrifting, because it was such a if you
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: found something that you liked that fit on, that was
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: a good price. It probably wasn't too expensive because the
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: stores are generally cheaper, or it's on deep Op or
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Marketplace or vinted or wherever you're listening. But also there's
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: this intense scarcity, so like our brains produce scarcity to
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: help us justify purchases anyway, and we'll think, oh, he's
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: going to sell out or is this But in a
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: thrift store, you know it genuinely is going to be gone.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: There's one of them.
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  Speaker 4: You can't do you think about it for twenty four
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  Speaker 4: hours or wait till next week, or buy it on
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: payday necessarily. So I thought, let's just cut all of that.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: And I had a lot of feedback from people being like, oh,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: why don't you allow yourself three items or this or that?
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: And I kind of thought, you know, I had so
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: many people, but what if this?
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: What if that?
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: And I just thought, I'm just going to deal with
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: all of it if it happens. If I get invited
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: to a cowgirl party, I will deal with them when
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: it happens. There's a high chance that I won't. I'm
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: not a particularly sociable person. I didn't have a jam
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: packed social calendar so on Saturday night not likely, and
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  Speaker 4: you know your brain kind.
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  Speaker 2: Of goes, oh, well, what if I get invited to
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  Speaker 2: a black tie? Then I thought, I'll just cross that
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  Speaker 2: bridge when I come to it.
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  Speaker 4: If I have to borrow something, if I have to
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  Speaker 4: buy one thing because I genuinely had nothing else, I
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: still think there's benefit. So I really just went in
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  Speaker 4: all guns placing wow and said no clothes at all.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's so much merit in removing those barriers too,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: and just say well, exactly dead, Like, if something comes up,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I can figure it out. I'm choosing to do this challenge.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: It's the journey that I'm going on. And if that
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: had change over the course of the year, that's not
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: a bad thing. I think you still would have had
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: the opportunity to take a lot of learnings from it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: But exactly the dedication that setting yourself up for success,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I think is such an important part.
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  Speaker 4: There's a big self trust piece as well. I think, Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: a lot of people go, what if my weight changes
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: or what or what if that? I think, just trust
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: that you will know whether you are buying something because
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: you're cheating, or whether you're buying something because you genuinely
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: need to. Yeah, I think once you really commit fully
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: to the challenge, and that is a huge you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: it's a big thing in behavior change. Committing to the
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: changes is the whole part of it. There's the change
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: that you do, but there's also the commitment that you make.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: There's a lot to be said about just saying you
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: know what, I'm going to try it.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Getting on the horse is the hardest part, and if
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: you fall off, you can just get back on.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: How did those first few months feel Was there a
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: point where it got really hard? Did you feel like
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: there was a transition period where you were having these
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: impulses to do things that you were battling against.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: I found the first couple of months were hard in
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: that I could just see how long I had to go.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, I've done it and I've said
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: it online, so I've got to do it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Do it now.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But at the same time, I was finding a
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: lot of joy in putting together outfits I hadn't worn before.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: And that's why I do recommend people even try it,
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: even just for a month, because there's a lot to
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: be found in your wardrobe just by going, Wow, I've
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: really got to get creative here. So the first couple
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: of months were pretty easy. You know, in Australia it
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: was summer at that time, so you know, the things
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: you wear for the first couple of months of the year,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: first two three months of the year about the same.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: The time I found it hard was when we got
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: to sort of April May and the season started to change.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: I had realized that I was looking outside of my
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: wardrobe then for I guess signals of what to wear.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: You know, when you get really out of the habit
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: of wearing a certain season of clothes.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: You're looking for inspo. What are the people wearing?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you hit that point where you're like, what
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: are shoes that aren't sandals? Yeah? You know what I mean,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: You're like, what do I wear?
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: How do I cover my arms?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I have no sleeves.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're just not in the cycle of it. That's
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: when I found the temptation that the strongest, because I
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: started to realize that, I think a change of season,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: there's this shortcut available to you in shops when you
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: feel like you've got nothing to wear, there's this shortcut
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: and you go, oh, just get a couple of basics,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: should get a couple of cardigans, a lople of jumpers.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: I'll just get a couple of pairs of jeans or
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: whatever it is, and it sort of patches up that
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: resistance that we feel to not feeling connected to our wardrobes.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: For that season, that was when I started to find
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: it the hardest. And then there was sort of a
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: period after that where I'd really pushed my wardrobe to
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: the limit. I'd really you know, you run out of
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: combinations eventually, of course, and then I had to really
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: start rewaring. And while I got a lot of enjoyment
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: out of that and satisfaction in a way, but also
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: just neutrality. I kind of accepted that I just didn't
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: have to feel good about what I was wearing all
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: the time, and that having a few things that I
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: did like, I could just keep reaching for those. I
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: have found this new type of joy in really loving
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: something and wearing it again. I just it sounds so ridiculous,
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: but I just hadn't experienced that, you know, that dopamine rush,
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: that enjoyment. Yeah, outside of something new, I relied on
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: novelty a lot in my wardrobe.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: And it's such a it's again like such a societal
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: thing it's the don't you do. You don't want someone
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: to see that you in an outfit that you've worn before.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: You need to find a different way to wear it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: But there is something really lovely about knowing like, these
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: are my favorite genes and I wear these genes twice
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: a week every week, and I should feel good about that.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I should feel good about my cost per use, being like,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: I should feel good about the fact that I made
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: a good purchase decision for something that I will get
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of wear out of. But it's very interesting
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: that you're yeah, you're saying that typically wouldn't give the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: dope mean here.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You're so right.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: We're always looking for that new thing, but that dove
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: mean from the new item disappears so quickly, and that's
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: where we get stuck buying again and again because we're
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: chasing it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: And I, you know, I sort of explore a bit
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: in the book about this idea of having nothing to wear,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: and when we look at the connection between beliefs and behavior,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: if we allow ourselves to believe that we have nothing
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: to wear because we are buying the wrong things, because
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: we haven't organized our wardrobe properly, because it's a change
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: of season and we feel like we have nothing to wear.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: A very logical response to that is to buy more stuff. Yeah,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: but I think it's something really interesting happens when you
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: realize that the solution that makes logical sense is obviously
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: not working, because if you keep buying more but you
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: still don't have anything to wear, there's a missing piece somewhere.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: For me, it was that, you know, buying to be
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: somebody I wish that I was buying to hide my flaws,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: buying for the novelty, buying for the dopamine hit. And
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I think when I started to realize that there was
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: so much joy to be had in actually seeing how
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: I looked in my clothes and wearing clothes because I
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: liked how they looked on me, rather than because I
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: liked the idea of them. Yes, especially being a bigger
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: woman and I have some size privilege, I do fit
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: into some mainstream stores. But even then, when I look
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: at pieces of clothing online, nineteen times out of one hundred,
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: they're on a slimmer model, which only fed this idea
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: of what it was supposed to look like. So I'd
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: be all hopped up when I'd buy something thinking I
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: was going to look like that, and then I wouldn't
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: look like that, And sort of that, combined with everything
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: else that was going on with that sort of spending pattern,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: that just fueled this cycle of try again, try again,
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: try again, and every time I had my hopes up
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: that I was going to look like this image in
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: my head that I kind of came to refer to
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: as the fantasy self.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Which I'm sure we'll talk about later.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, breaking that down. And it's interesting. The cutting
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: off the consumption played a really interesting role in intercepting
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: that behavior. A lot of people go, well, what if
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: I stop buying? But what do I do about all
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: the other emotional stuff when you stop feeding it?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: When buying.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: A lot of it neutralizes quite naturally on its own.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Overtime doesn't happen overnight. We want it to happen overnight.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: Despite the yeal on challenge.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Why it's a year, It really needed to be a year.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's And the crazy thing is those models also
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: that we're all looking at don't look how No, most
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: because if you've ever been to a you know, an
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: e Comma shoot, they're pinned in with these giant clips
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: or they're photoshopping things they're wearing, shoes that are two
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: sizes to be. It's all again, it's all in the
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: power of marketing. But I want to ask you a
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: bit more about this fantasy self exactly as you just said.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Can you tell me a little bit more about her,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: what she was for you and that role that she
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: does play in your spending.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: The fantasyself was something I started to tease out. Again.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: This is why said it had to be a year,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: because this is where I started to see these patterns
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: in what I was buying. I have a whole sort
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: of section in the book where I've got all these
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: categories of things that are hanging in our wardrobes and
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: the stories that they're telling. And a big one for
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: me was these fantasy items that were things I would
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: buy again and again and again to try and emulate
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: this look that I had in my head. And it's
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: often the opposite of who we are, or it has
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: certain aspects of ourselves that we wish that we could change.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Sometimes it's a height thing, sometimes its size thing, you know.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: For me, my fantasy self was always this sort of
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: complete antithesis to me, like tall, lanky, slim bean pole
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: when I'm literally.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Lik really crazy that one hundred percent, but I wasn't.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: It's like I only saw clothes through the lens of
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: her and never me, And I think that's why the
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: year was so powerful, because something else that I did
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: was when I wore outfits that I liked, I took
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: a photo of them and added them to an album
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: on my phone so I could refer back to them,
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: and doing that made me see my clothes through the
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: lens of myself for the first time. I don't think
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: that we realized how little were actually looking at ourselves previously.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: When I'd look in the mirror or I'd assess how
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: I felt about an outfit, it was benchmarked against that
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: fantasy subconsciously. Of course, we're not thinking these things in
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: real time. But that was why I didn't feel good
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: about the way that I looked, because I felt like
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I looked wrong and I had to try and change it,
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: and the easiest short cut for that was to buy something,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: and so looking like sort of seeing myself in a
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: different way.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I think the year.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Didn't allow me to really engage with the fantasy self
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: because I couldn't. I engaged with her through buying, and
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: I bought for her, but I didn't get to do
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: that through the whole year, and so what was left
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: was me, and I realized by the end of the year,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: I was like, wow, my body image is so much
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: better than it used to be, just really gradually, and
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I thought, there can't be a coincidence, because I haven't
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: been putting my body on trial through you know, women's
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: sizing is. Oh, so I haven't been putting my body
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: on trial for what fits. I haven't been putting my
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: body on trial against this fantasy of what I wish
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I looked like or what I thought I wish I
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: looked like. I haven't been comparing myself to the picture online.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: I haven't been getting my hopes up and then putting
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: it on and being disappointed. All of that stripped away
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: gave me this room to actually see myself, and that's
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: when I could start seeing clothes in a way that
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: was I feel good in this, rather than oh, this
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: isn't that quite how I wanted or you know, anybody
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: with thick thighs will know that trying to embrace the
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: straight leg jean trend, all jeans are skinnies, yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Wide, baggy, baggy or skinny.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: There's no in between mum jeans don't know barrel leg.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: I don't mind because barrel leg look like mom jeans giving.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: But I know what you mean.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: I was trying, you know, my thing always and I
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: don't even think there's this term anymore. It'll probably come
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: back around again with the styles. But there was always
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: this style of cigarette trousers, sort of pencils tapered. That's
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: what I always wanted, but.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Just didn't it work for me. And now you know,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I would resist.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: The wide leg for some reason because I don't know
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: that was playing into what my body really is. And
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I was almost addicted to trying to be different. But
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: the year kind of took all of that pressure away
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: and I actually found at first piece with who I was,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: but down the line a lot of joy. And now
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: when I get dressed, you know, I wear the same
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: things over and over again, and I'm more. This was
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: kind of a realization that I had towards the end
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: of the year, or more sort of even in the
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: year after, where I was able to buy again. I
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: like my clothes that I have more than the things
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: I see in stores. When I think about going to
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: an event that used to be like great perfect excuse
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: to go and buy something new, Whereas now I'm like,
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: I can't wait to wear that dress because I don't
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: get to wear it often because it is more formal.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I can't wait to wear that. I know exactly what
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: I'm wearing. Even for this today, I know exactly what
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: I'm wearing.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Incredible.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: It never used to be like that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: And when you don't feel like that, that's where all
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: of those marketing messages hit you, and they were it
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: works so well. You've only got to walk around Chadstone
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: or any shopping center.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I looked at this the other day. I was walking
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: around and I thought, eighty percent of these stores, if
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: not more, are for women.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: There is We're huge consumers where it's such a huge
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: segment of the market. It's an industry that's been built
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: though on making us feel like shit about ourselves, and
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: that's why it's so profitable. I think for them, was
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: it confronting to slowly make that realization about all of
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: these I guess suppressed subconscious feelings about yourself, because as
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: you were talking about, I was deeply, honestly relating to
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: the fact that if I think on it really introspectively,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: the relationship that I have to my clothes and my
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: wardrobe and shopping. I think is very similar to what
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: all I'm hearing is that I need to do this challenge. Yeah,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: but I think there are a lot of things in
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: terms of my self perception and self worth that maybe
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I don't feel so great about that really feed into that,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: and I don't like that's quite uncomfortable to think about.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Was it hard to make those considerations and move through
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: them or have those realizations?
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: I suppose yeah, it was in a way, especially when
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: you kind of consider the environmental impact of consumption, and
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: you know, I think kind of icky when I go,
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: this wasn't a sustainability challenge, and it kind of was
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: in a collateral way. But I did it from a
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: finance and a behavior perspective. I found that the sustainability was,
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: you know, an added benefit. But I think that there
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: really is something to be said about the behavioral aspect
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: of sustainability, So I guess that's just on that. But yeah,
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: it was confronting to realize I think how long I'd
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: been subconsciously stuck in that cycle and how something that
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: I thought I enjoyed, you know, I'd make these excuses sometimes, Oh,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: I just.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Like clothes, I love fashion, I love fashionion girl.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when really I just you know, I say this
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: in the book. I thought that I liked fashion, but
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: I actually just liked buying. And I think you hit
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: home that's when you're getting the most joy from your
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: clothes when you're buying. You don't love fashion and you
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: just love buying. There's you know, you can absolutely love both,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: and you can shift that love of buying into into style.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it was It was confronting, but it was
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: also almost a relief in a way because I had
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: finally understood the link between those things and why I
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: was doing these things. And I think, you know, it
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: helped in a way that I got the benefit in
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: real time. I sort of had the realization that I
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: had this problematic cycle, but at the same time as
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: experiencing the other side of it, so.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: You could really prove through. Yeah, that's incredible. There are
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: so many great lines, great catchphrases that you have that
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: really sit and resonate. One that I particularly loved was
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: the concept of outsourcing your identity to consumption, which we've
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: kind of just touched on, but I think there's so
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: much power in that state, like you're really calling it
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: for what it is.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: Whenever I say that line, a lot of women relate.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: And I think that it's, as you say, confronting in
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: a way to realize that we've kind of often pieced
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: together the version of ourselves that we try to be
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: through buying. And I talk in the book a bit
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: about the term put together. A lot of women say
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: they want to look put together. And while I, you know,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: I on the surface, that makes complete sense, and I
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: think the term put together that there's merit to it,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: especially in a professional environment or when you're putting together
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: your favorite pieces. But there's almost like a slightly sinister
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: undertone to that term.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Of put together.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: And I kind of marrit it up with the term
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: polished that a lot of other women relate to that.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: You know, we are sort of piecing ourselves together with
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: things that are sold to us, and I kind of
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: sometimes question if we weren't putting ourselves together with all
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: of these elements that are constantly sold, where would the
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: billions of dollars go.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's so much power I think for the
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: big corps, the big companies that not to put my
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: tinfoil hat on. But you know, there's a lot out there.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: I think for these huge corporations in keeping women feeling
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: bad about themselves. Keeping is consuming, Keeping is not looking,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you know, at what is causing those things moving past
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: that because that's what puts money in their pockets.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, at the end of the day, and I think
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: as well, keeping us. You know, a lot of people
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: are kind of go oh. Companies aren't sitting there thinking
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: about how they can make for bad about ourselves. But
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: I think as long as the goalposts are moving, that's
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: all that matters. Yeah, as long as we are in
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: that position of feeling the way we do about ourselves
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: by consuming or consuming being a part of that, playing
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: a role in that, that's all you need because there's
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: always something more to be sold. There's a piece that
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: comes from, which is what the challenge is really saying
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: I have enough and the link between having enough and
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: being enough. When you say that you have enough, you're
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: sort of subconsciously saying, well, I am enough as well.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: I don't need to buy new things, to go to
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: that work event, to have my birthday to be seen
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: in any way, I am enough with the things I
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: already have. And there's an interesting link there is.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: That one of the biggest things you'd say the experiment
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: taught you about, like the impulse control and emotional side.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Of it all.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's you know, there's that deep emotional side,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: and then there's also sort of the whipped cream on top.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: Is that just you know, that quick dopamine hit, but
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: buying something online or getting a little treat or whatever,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: you know, that's sometimes very you know, flash in a
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: pan that's very real. It doesn't necessarily mean there's a
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: ton of emotional stuff going on that can still be
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: quite real. I think there's two parts of it to
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: unpack the deepest stuff, the deep cycles of what you're
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: buying and why you're buying. And then there's really watching
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: that sort of cycle of little treat, cycle of dopamine,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: but again stepping back and creating more distance between the
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: last hit and the next hit that can break the
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: cycle as well. And it's something I did during the
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: year was what I called exposure therapy, and I'd go
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: into the shop, sort brows online and allow myself.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: To meet that desire.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: And yeah, there's a lot of mental peace that comes
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: from just saying I'm not even going to entertain buying this.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: That was probably one of the most surprising things actually,
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: you know, in a impulse control sense, there's also that,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: you know that meatia emotional stuff, but realizing how free
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: it was to just not be buying.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see someone's.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: Jacket, it didn't matter. It didn't have to go on
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: Google lens and stop putting it through. I didn't have
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: to google where's that from? Oh that looks like that.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Oh it's out of stock. Oh they've got it. What's
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: it called? High point? Can I be bothered to go
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: all the way over that? These loops I would jump
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: through all the time. Oh I want it for Saturday?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Will it get delivered in time?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: It's never ending, the thoughts. The noise of it all
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: is the noise, and I have more questions about that.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: But I think we should jump to a really quick break,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: and when we come back, I want to dive a
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: little bit more deeply into all those concepts that don't
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. I'm chatting with Emma Edwards,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: who has just released her book The Wardrobe Project, all
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: about her year of buying no clothing.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: I have been wondering a little bit when you took
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: buying out of the equation, did you notice other areas
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: of your life, like time or creativity or happiness also
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: started to shift.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I found you know, I had that mental peace
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: that I talked about before.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: That just sort of, I don't know, it just felt
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: a lot lighter in general. But obviously I was, you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: hyper focused on the challenge. I was talking about it online.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: You know, that was obviously quite palpable. I think the
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: other sort of area is I found a new sense
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: of creativity, not just in my wardrobe, but I also
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: I took up sewing again. I used to sew with
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: my gran when I was younger, because I would go
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: to her house when I was on school holidays or whatever.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: And she died when I was fifteen, so I didn't
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: sort of pick it up again, but I'd always wanted to.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: And you know, again, I could have done that at
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: any point. But I just don't think it's a coincidence
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: that I found the time the focus. You know, I'm
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: very big on making a list of things I'm going
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: to do and.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Not doing that.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's a coincidence that I was able
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: to engage with that during the year because I think
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: it took I think the challenge took a lot of
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: urgency out of the way I was relating to clothes
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: or even projects. And I think previously I was kind
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: of going, oh, I must start sewing again, but it's
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: going to take so long to make one top, or like,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: I can't you know that thing about not wanting to
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: be bad at something.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, I won't be able to wear it out
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: because it's not going to look like when I got
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: at the store.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: Yes, Whereas I think the sense of slowness gave me
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: a sense of patience to learn. Take that up in
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: a way that you know, it directly fed into what
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: I was trying to do as well. I did have
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: a rule within the challenge that I could buy fabric again.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: I had to do so mindfully. A lot of people go, oh,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: I took up sewing and I couldn't stop my fabric.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: You do have to be careful of that fabric's expensive.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there was. It was a very creative year.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: I think because you've removed some of the noise that feels,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: I feel like it takes up again subconsciously, so much
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: room in your brain. All those things exactly you were
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: saying the hoops of where I want this, but where
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: can I get an Oh, down a stock maybe I'll
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: drive to the inside the city, or being borrowed from
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: someone I.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Can lend it online.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of a lot of volume in your head,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I imagine once you finally figure out how to switch
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: that off.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah it is, and I'm yeah, now I'm thinking now
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: you've asked me that, I'm thinking, oh, what did I
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: do with that sort of mental peace?
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: But you know, I noticed you could have just enjoyed it,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: that's okay.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: And I'd noticed it a lot, you know, if there
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: would be an event or someone's birthday or wedding and
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: I just you know, people going to watch I wear
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: on popping over to chance and to look for this,
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: and I was just kind of like, I'm done.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I know what I'm wearing, and like, oh course you
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: know what you're wearing. But sounds lovely. Yeah, it was great. God,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: was there a moment.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Or something you realized during that year that completely rewired
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: your mindset where you thought, oh my gosh, now that
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: I've seen this, I can't see it, like that switch
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: just flipped.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: I think it was seeing those patterns in my wardrobe.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: And I think, you know, coming back to something you
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: asked earlier, was there a point where it about hard.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: There was a point, probably seven or eight months in
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: where the penny had dropped on how I was buying
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: the wrong things, so chasing that fantasy self buying things.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: You know, another thing I would do would be buy
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: If I liked something in black, I'd go and buy
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: it in every color. I used to do this too, yes,
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: Or I'd go and buy a very similar version to
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: something else because I couldn't find the one I wanted.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Where's my stripeytop, I'll just buy another one, oh my god?
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Or you know, little things like I wanted. You know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: at one point I wanted a pair of like white
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: off white jeans, and I couldn't find any that I
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: liked that fitted, partly because I was chasing that tape
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: of look. But that's neither here nor there. But I
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: found a pair in Suzanne of all places, very generous
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: on the sizing, and they fit. They weren't quite what
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: I wanted, but I wanted to wear white jeans so
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: badly that I bought them.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Heard them.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: So I think when the penny dropped on that, I
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: was kind of eager to get out and I kind
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: of thought, oh, I know now why I hate my
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: clothes all the time, because I'm buying for all the
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: wrong reasons, buying all the wrong stuff. And so I
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: had these things that I did like, but that was
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: quite a limited wardrobe. Everything else I could see the
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: issues with, and I wore them anyway, and you know,
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: I really pushed those to the limits. But I started
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: to compile this sort of list of yeses and noes,
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: so like really specific things about clothes, like the length
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: that I like, the type of sleeve, the type of fabric,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: the type of fabric weight, Like I really knew what
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: good purchases were going to be for me now. Yeah,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: And at that point I kind of wanted to rush
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: out and go, oh, let me test this out and
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: you know, buy the right things. So that kind of
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: got quite difficult. But that penny dropping of where the
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: patterns of buying had been really wrong, that kind of
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: really changed the course of the challenge because I could
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: see then a time after the challenge which I had
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: to start entertaining towards the end of the year, because
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: I kind of thought, God, what now, like what am
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: I going to be like, am I going to repeat?
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: Am I going to go back to the way I was?
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: Am I going to repeat all the same patterns? And
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: I think realizing that those things which sound practical but
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: actually when you marry it up with that emotional stuff,
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: make a lot of sense. Yeah, that's when I started
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: to kind of think, Ah, I've really made a breakthrough here,
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: because I have so many reasons now not to go
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: back to the way that I was, because there's an alternative. Yeah,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: and I now think that I know how to buy
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: things mindfully that I do want to keep wearing. And
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: that's really how that was the turning point that got
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: me to where I am now.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, were you nervous at any point about coming to
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: the end of your yark? Because I think for a
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: lot of people, when you do any kind of restrictive challenge,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: whether it be clothing or finance, or even for people
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: who do fitness challenges and things, there's this, I guess,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: very common storyline where you do it, you push really hard,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: you get through it, and you get to the end
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: and you blow out. You know, you have your huge Yeah,
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: exactly right. Were you ever concerned that that would be
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: the case, or were you so steadfast in what you
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: learned that you just knew that it was going to
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: change your approach completely.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: I was concerned because you can't, you know, you can't
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: take the fish out of water, Like we're still live
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: in a world where there is more and more and more.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: We are still seeing everybody's lives on social media. There
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: is still somebody's latest affiliate link that I can click,
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: and there's still those external inputs.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: So I knew that, you know.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: I actually say in the book that the challenge really
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: began the year after because then I had to consume
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: mindfully and you know, there were certain things I wanted
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: to replace in my wardrobe, but I had to be
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: careful not to go crazy or be over I was
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: a bit overconfident at one point as well.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I think, or I can't.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: Possibly make a bad decision, whereas you know, a couple
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: of misses throughout that year when I did buy a
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: few things.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: What were those things? Can you tell me, like, was
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: is there something that comes to mind that you bought
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: that You're like, ah, that was a bad and you
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: know now you can you know why?
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's a hard one because it was
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: partly as well. The fabric wasn't it was a bit
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: of a letdown. There was some practical.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Aspects to it.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: Just missed the mark, just miss the mark. Like it
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: was a It was a suit, sort of a linen
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: blend suit. Yes, that I got on a really good
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: price and I fit really nicely and I was really
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: happy with it. Got it in the UK actually, and
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: something about when I hung it out the sun changed
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: the color of the white. Yeah, because I washed the
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: trousers a lot more than the jacket. Yeah, and the
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: color change. So there was that aspect, but there was another.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: I just sort of I look at it and I'm like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: I could have lived about that better. Yeah, Like I
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: wear it because this is the other kind of thing
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: I learned to you know, things don't have to be
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: absolutely perfect. Wearing things can change your opinion of them.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: I pulled a lot of things out of my donate pile.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: Oh I love that, And I said this, you know,
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: I run this accountability challenge as well with other women
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: in the group, and a lot of people have their
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: own kind of experience with these concepts. But something universally true,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: aside from when you've had a drastic change in size.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Usually there's some treasure in your donate pile because we
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: get rid of things very very quickly because the novelties
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: worn off because we want an excuse to buy something else.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I kind of got a lot. Sorry, I
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: can't remember what you actually originally asked.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Me coming to NY and I'm love it you every
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: minute of it.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I said it was like, was there a specific item,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: which I think you did answer like, yeah, the suit.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: You're bound to fall off though, too, I think as well,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: like when you're changing the way that you fundamentally consume,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: like there's going to be some learning curves. I think
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: it's so impressive that you can say, after coming out
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: of that whole year, you know, there are a couple
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: of swings and missus, but overall, like you're really happy
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: and you know what you need and what you look
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: for well enough to shop really effectively.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Now, yes, the way I consume is and that's kind
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: of how I forgave myself for not being on, you know,
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: on the mark every single time.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: And you know the way the money if you are
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: fundamentally different.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But I think the other challenge I had, which
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: is actually how I ended up doing the challenge again
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: this year with slightly modified rules, is that again you
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: can't take the fish out of water, like there is
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: still so much more, more and more. When I learned
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: to buy better, I had to. I did a mini
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: freeze during the year, just three months where I didn't
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: buy anything else because one, I was craving that piece
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: because there were so many things, but also two, you
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: still only need a certain amount of clothes. So I
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: had learned to buy well and buy things that I
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: would really want to wear. The ability to over consume
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: is still so easy that I almost was getting even
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: though it was more useful things I was buying. I
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: was almost kind of had to be careful not to
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: over consume good things because I'd had this pattern of
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: over consuming all the wrong things and that's what kept
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: me reconsuming.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Whereas then I had this, as I said before,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: almost over confidence, where I.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: Was like, I buy so well and you know, I
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: am good with money as they say, so I wasn't
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: spending money I didn't have, you know, I had this
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: almost where do I actually stop then? So then I
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: had to sort of I did the challenge again this
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: year where I was like, I'm not bringing anything new
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: into my wardrobe, partly for some sustainability reasons which I'll
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: come on to, but also to I guess experience those
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: learnings again with a wardrobe I loved, and that was
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: completely different because I wasn't learning all the things I'd
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: done wrong. I was actually just learning to be with
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: what I had. And now as we come to the
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: end of this year, I don't need to go and
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: replace things in the way I did before, so now
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: it's much more of a lasting change that has happened.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: I later towards the second half of this year, I
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: allowed a limited amount of thrifting because I wanted to
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: get back into thrifting, but I still had that, Oh,
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: it's really hard to say no to something that's really good.
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: How do I limit this? So I really wanted to
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: try that within the context of thrifting being the only option,
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: and that's been really fun. I've been customizing some things.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: I've been buying a couple of things and dying them.
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: I bought this and I died it into my signature RUSS.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Yet it was great, fantastic.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I would never have known that that was not its
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: original color.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: No, so well it looks and it has much in
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: trousers as well. But that's you know, that creativity has
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: really come back again. And I don't think that that's
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: a surprise that it's in the year where I've stepped
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: back and I think, just yeah, something can seem really restrictive,
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: but actually there's so much to be found and experienced.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. How's your style changed through all of this, Like,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: what's the criteria now that you use to assess you're
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: talking about sustainability in that element a little bit? What
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: kind of things are you looking at when you are
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: considering bringing something into your wardrobe?
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really looking at you know, I'm very much
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: of the belief that the most sustainable outfit you can
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: wear is one you already have. And so there's that,
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: you know, you don't need to be, you know, jumping
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: through hoops and looking for all these amazing sustainable brands
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: if you're not buying anything at all.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Look, I have some.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: Work to do on perhaps where I'm shopping. You know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: I'm you know, I'm not shopping Sheen and Timu and
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: things like that. But you know, your shops, your major retailers, it's.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: A ray area.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like your Kmart, Yeah, came Out's country Road WI.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: You know that it's not exactly sustainable, so I would
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: again it can be harder in plus size they're a
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: lot less and truly ethically made plus size stores. But
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: again I use that as an excuse for a long time,
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: can't shop ethically. I'm that shouldn't have to, but it is.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: It's hard. It's like you're limited already.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: And then you know, but I've really, you know, I'm
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: focusing very much on things I will wear, you know,
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: on my criteria list. I've I've worked out what makes
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: me love my body the most, So things that work
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: really well on my curves, things that run longer because
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: I have a funny body composition that my torso is
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: really long. I'm tall in general, but a lot of
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: my height comes from my torso.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: So where for so long I was chasing that like long, leggy,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: athletic look that was just so not what I am.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Now I really kind of embrace my my curves but
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: also the space I take up.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I talk in the book a bit.
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: A bit how I moved away from wanting to be
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: that sort of beige, minimalist, clean you know, old money
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: almost look too much more bold and like you know,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: orange is my signature color.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: And I'm colorful to me.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think give you I do.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I think a vibrant yes, And.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Like I'm not a quiet person and I am silly
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: and I do joke around, and I'm not neat and
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: polished and you know, put together per se in that
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: traditional sense. So I really started to lean into that
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: a bit more, and I started sort of using these
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: style anchor words. So I started There's a drink that
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: I have when I'm in the UK that's like an
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: espresso with whipped cream, like all espresso conpana, And I
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: was like, that's kind of my style. Like there's the
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: basics and the simples and the you know, the nice clean,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: you know, suiting or denim or whatever, but then there's
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: these like punchy.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Elements as well.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like no one can see today, but I'm wearing
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: my like my big velvet orange shoes, which people have come.
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: To known me for.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Shoes I've ever seen the fantastic, but.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Like they're kind of me in a shoe. Like they're
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: big and they're chunky, and they're loud and they take
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: up space and they're very cool. And that's kind of
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: a really big difference as well, from trying to fit
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: into that little neat box to just being like, especially
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: now with the way we're seeing style and we're seeing
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: this move to the right, with this sort of you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: clean girl, clean core, Yeah, moving away from that. Even
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: my nail ladies say the other day, she goes, you're
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: the only one of my clients that gets a bright
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: colors crazy And I was like, oh, look, maybe they
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: have to have baite for work. It was like, no,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: it's a real trend.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: Long gone are the days of Cajun shrimp, you know
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: for anyone out there.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: And it, yeah, like embracing that in my style has
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: been really nice and doing it within the boundaries of
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: this is what works, this is what I will wear,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: this is something that will fit with what I already have,
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: and overall just consuming less, buying less, and lucking myself more.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Ah, that's the dream. Those anchor words that you're talking about.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Is that something you talk through in the book, because
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: that's something I really struggle with. Someone asked U and
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: A on Instagram or something recently, someone said, how would
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: you describe your style? And I said, I have absolutely
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: like for my clothes, for my home, I couldn't tell you,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: And I feel like that's probably a huge gap because like,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: how do you shop when you don't know what you're
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: shopping for?
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like, how would you exist in the
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: world if you didn't know what you've valued? You know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: how do you shop when you don't know what your
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: style is? I think, yes, I do talk about that
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: in the book, and I talk about it in the
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: sense of, you know, I have to stay on my
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: lane because I'm not a stylist.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I talk about the style a.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: Lot, but I'm not a qualified stylist, but I talk
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: about it in this sense a lot of anchoring it
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: to something something physical or something visual, whether it's a
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: plant or a place or a city drink.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: You know, there was that kind of ic latte phase.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of people will have that sort
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: of style, But there's a lot to be said about
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: that because you perceive that thing a certain way, and
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: so someone might say, Oh, my style is New York
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: and like, that's not something that can be replicated by
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: anybody else because the way they perceive New York, oh
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: is really specific to them.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: So again people will be like, express it.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: What are you like?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: But it made sense to me, and I see that
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: in my style choices, and that's really all that matters.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: Whereas when we kind of use word you know, feminine, floral, like,
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: it can help in a way, but then a hundred
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: girls in a lineup could say feminine and it could
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: mean something different to them. So your interpretation of like
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: traditional style words like that. But I think when you
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: pick it, you know, for some people their style might
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: be like a velvet sofa and like that evokes a
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: feeling in them and they replicate that in their style
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: and then it's really unique to you, which is FIRS
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: style should be really exactly exactly. But we're so homogeneous
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: in our style now the individuality is more and more rare.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not celebrated in the way that I should be.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like, either, Wow, we've covered so much today
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: before we go. I would love to know for anyone
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: who's listening, they're going I think I need to They're
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: doing exactly what I'm doing. I need to do this challenge,
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: This challenges for me. What would your advice be to
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: someone who's looking to take it on?
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: M Well, I have a whole advice section at the
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: back of the book. So I definitely check that out
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: because there's a lot to say. My device would be
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: don't overthink it, even though I've overthought it to the
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: point I've written a book about it. Don't overthink it.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: Just see what happens again. Trust that you will overcome
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: any obstacles as they come to you. You'll instinctively know
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: whether you are sticking to your values of the challenge
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: or not. And I guess within that, think about what
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: you want to get out of it. What is the
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: feeling that you have around your clothes? Yeah, you relate,
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: but what does it feel like for you? What are
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: the examples of the things that you relate to, What
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: items in your wardrobe maybe making you.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Think about your fantasy self? What does your fantasy self
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: look like? How does your.
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: Shopping and your style, your relationship with style kind of
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: relate to everything else in your life. You know, for me,
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: it was those body image issues. It was growing up
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: through diet culture, through you know that touched my money
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, and this was that one
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: lingering thing. A story I tell a lot is a
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: story that's very generously shared in the book from somebody
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: from my accountability program, and she had left a toxic
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: relationship and she realized that her fantasy self was actually
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: not her fantasy self, but his fantasy of what she
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: should have done. Wow, And like, there are so many ways,
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: depending on what stage of life you're at, a lot
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: of people experience the fantasy self when they become a
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: mum because they're so you know, that's like next level
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: of women's standards of everything that you should be when
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: you become a mother, and the identity shift that you
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: go through and the lifestyle shift that you go through.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: COVID was a big one at the time, you know,
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: for me, thinking about how maybe your buying patterns are
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: relating to other things happening in your life that can
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: kind of help you find what you're looking for. In
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: doing the challenge, I'd be careful of doing it just
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: to get the satisfaction of doing it. I'm sure that
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: can be very enjoyable. But I think you need to
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: go with a question that you're looking to answer in
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: a way to get that really deep learning out of it.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: But you know, it doesn't need to be a year.
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: It could be a month. And I think a big
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: one is know your behavioral style, Like I said before,
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: I'm somebody that does very well with a challenge with abstinence,
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: partly because I want to do for work. Yeah, it
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: becomes content for me. It helps me examine, you know.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by why we do what we do, why
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: we lie, So that helps for me. But if you're
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: the type of person that needs a three item buffer,
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: work with that. Like you know yourself better than I know.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: You make like set yourself up a success rather than
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: trying to do what someone else has done. Because it
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: sounds good. Yeah, yeah, it's got to be very personal
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: to you.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Like your style. I love that.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: And what a beautiful little bow to title up in.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: I have loved this chat, and I thank you so
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: much for coming in and sharing. I honestly it's been
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: such a joy to have you in.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I could yap
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: about this all day.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I have to come back. I know so many of
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: our community members are going to be exactly like me
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: and wanting to dive deeper into this. So we'll pop
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: a link for the wardrobe project in the show notes
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: so you can grab your copy. I honestly, I think
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I'll be doing this challenge in twenty twenty six, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: if you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: friend who might need a little to rethink their shopping
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: habits or their overflowing wardrobe. Don't forget to hit subscribe
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: so you never miss an episode, and check out all
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: of Emma's links that will have down there as well.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: So thank you for listening, everybody, and we're back for
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: another episode on Friday. Hi guys, h.
• 52:20
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