Latest / Auto Collabs / Stop Guessing, Start Testing with Derek Hansen

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Stop Guessing, Start Testing with Derek Hansen · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  I don't always remember things in the proper order, but I eventually get around to them, and I'm okay with making mistakes. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. I better be. Are you time dyslexic? [laughs] What?
• 0:17
  No, it's- Time, it's, it's time dyslexic. Time dyslexic. He's time dyslexic. Like, no, I don't know what I am, honestly. [laughs] Timelexic. You're Paul G- He's timelexic, you know?
• 0:27
  All I know is I always have the best of intentions. [laughs] You do. That's, that's very true. So good. I really do, and that's, that's why I'm really- This is the most stupid intro.
• 0:37
  I'm really happy that people are here. I think we've had stupider intros, but I feel like this is the dumb one. We have... No, this is why...
• 0:43
  This is what I like in a show, is when you kind of get to see the person, right? You don't see the, the PR version- Yeah... of the person. You get to see the person, and- We're def- we're terrible at PR. It's the worst.
• 0:53
  [laughs] I, I feel like we should be better at PR. People hire us for PR-type things. [laughs] And when it comes to ourselves, we're like, "Eh," you know. Mm, just this smug guy. They say a me- mechanic's car- Yeah...
• 1:06
  is always held together by baling wire and duct tape. You know what I mean? It's just the truth. Yeah, that's true. A contractor's house is always, the trim's never finished. It's like, you know.
• 1:14
  I think all of this makes perfect PR. [laughs] It, it actually is the best PR. Oh, yeah. Because you, you're not gonna be disappointed when you meet us in person. Which is- Yeah...
• 1:23
  sometimes when the PR is too good, you meet the person and you're like, "I've been bamboozled." "I've been bamboozled." "But that person sucks."
• 1:29
  I love when people meet us in real life and they're like, "Online you're so goofy, and now that I've met you in real life, it makes sense." Ta-da. [laughs] Oh, man. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what.
• 1:41
  Today's guest, Derek Hansen. I'm gonna segue this before- Do it... we get up. Nailed it. Let's go. Uh, w- with vAuto, is a very kind and smart person wrapped into one.
• 1:50
  Um, one of my really, really close friends worked with him for many years, Josh Gunsonhauser. And, uh, Derek is one of those people that when he talks, he knows what he's gonna say. He doesn't just start speaking.
• 2:01
  He actually knows- He's-... what he's talking about, and it makes sense to listen to him in order. Not like me, right? I don't talk in order. He talks in order.
• 2:09
  So I hope you grab some of these insights from him, 'cause he's got a purview on the industry that not many people have, because he sees so much data, and he's been doing it for a very long time.
• 2:17
  So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Derek Hansen. [upbeat music] Hey, Derek. It is so good to be with you. Thank you for joining us today on Auto Collabs. Yeah, likewise. Great to be with you, Paul.
• 2:29
  Kyle, good to see you. Okay, so you, you have a purview into so many dealerships across the country, and you have for a really long time because of your position.
• 2:37
  Um, but I, I bet that 99% of those people, maybe more, don't know how you started in this industry.
• 2:44
  [laughs] So maybe you could start off by, like, giving us, giving us the CliffsNotes on how you got into here and why you decided to, to throw in with the auto industry.
• 2:51
  Yeah, absolutely, Paul, and, and appreciate you, uh, bringing that personal aspect to it. So yeah, I, I had a unique path to the automotive industry.
• 2:58
  I actually started my career in finance, uh, in tech, and then got into strategy consulting. And it was in strategy consulting that actually led me to automotive, and I found this industry that, that was awesome.
• 3:10
  I mean, it's evolving. It's complex. There's, there's a lot of problems in that evolution. There's a lot of stakeholders, and that's what really drew me to that. And particularly, the dealer mindset.
• 3:19
  I mean, there's, they're just such a scrappy, entrepreneurial, uh, y- you know, part of the industry, and I love the way they continue to adapt to solve problems, to continue to kind of evolve their business to serve their clients and, and stay at the forefront of the industry.
• 3:33
  And so, uh, I was hooked once I got in. It's been 10-plus years now. I, I cut my teeth, uh, in the automotive industry on, on the wholesale side. Actually at Manheim.
• 3:42
  Spent five years there, and, and for the last five years I've been here at vAuto.
• 3:46
  So it's incredible as we work with dealers to bring all the data points to bear, to think about all the complexity of the industry and serve it up in a way that there's insights to, to keep them growing their business.
• 3:58
  One, one of the things, uh, that you mentioned, so strategy consulting, I think you spent some time at Bain, is that right? Absolutely, yeah.
• 4:04
  It, it, you know, when I think about, like, that outsider perspective looking in early on in your career, kind of like getting your first glimpse behind the scenes, b- uh, you know, it's kind...
• 4:14
  Like, that's, like, the deepest dive into the back end of like, "Oh, wow. This is what's happening."
• 4:20
  What were some of the initial findings that you were like, "Wow, this is a, this is, like, a way that an industry thinks that I would've never thought of," based on your history in finance and then tech and, and outside of, uh, of this industry.
• 4:33
  What were some of those first things that you were like, "That's an interesting way of perceiving that or thinking about that or going to market or, or strategizing in that way"?
• 4:40
  Yeah, and, and, and it's exactly right, Kyle. As I got in the industry, you know, as I mentioned, there's so many different stakeholders, right? As you think about OEMs, you think about lenders, you think about dealers.
• 4:50
  Not to mention all the services and the vendors. But when you look, just isolating on the dealers for one, right? And, and say there's 18,000 franchise dealers in the United States.
• 5:00
  When you look at the different strategies and the different methods of how they execute, uh, and, and, and again, each of them kind of has their own niche or their own, uh, avenue that they're trying to pursue that's, that's driven growth for them.
• 5:12
  And you see the best practices.
• 5:14
  But you see such a wide spectrum of performance, and that was one of the things that really jumped out at me coming in, uh, externally and particularly when you're doing some of the strategy work, is you, you know, look at the strategy of a dealership.
• 5:25
  Is it, is it how they acquire customers, right? Is it how they build the experience and build loyalty? Is it certain niches or segments that they serve that, you know, that they continue to, uh, to maximize the return?
• 5:36
  So to me, that, that diversity of the way dealers operate here in this country and the opportunity to continue to improve that body, to move the, the, the bottom quartile or the middle quartile upward in, in the performance, that to me was what's, was so exciting, right?
• 5:53
  To be a partner with them. Uh, and ultimately that's a win-win-win, right? It's a win for the dealer, it's a win for the consumer, and a win for their partner and the vendor, right?
• 6:00
  So, uh, that, that really gets me energized. And then when you layer inTechnology as a method and a pathway to do that, and there's mixed adoption across that spectrum of dealership.
• 6:11
  That, that's our sweet spot, and that's really, uh, the opportunity really comes alive and, and, uh, we can make magic happen, so. Yeah, I, I think about that as like, okay, if, if you develop softw- This is great.
• 6:25
  If you develop software and you develop it for like, let's say 12 users, right? Mm-hmm. Especially in a B2B perspective, right?
• 6:35
  It's, it's very easy to go, "I can develop for these 12 users and understand their strategy, their go-to-market strategy, their acquisition strategy," all those types of things.
• 6:44
  But the minute you take that into thousands and thousands of, of dealers that, like you just said, have wildly different strategies, wildly different markets, completely different ways of thinking about their business from a month-to-month, annual, you know, goal-setting trajectory.
• 7:03
  What are the complexities that you're running into on a day-to-day basis that, that, like, create, uh, create difficulty in both serving everybody, but also serving nobody all at the same time- [laughs]...
• 7:17
  so that you can live in this, like, wow, software created to serve this broad of an industry? Yeah.
• 7:25
  And, you know, we're in a very fortunate position that we serve a, a large share of those, uh, of those fr- of that franchise dealer base here at vAuto.
• 7:33
  And, and so we've, we've already seen, uh, how we can deploy those insights into dealers with different strategy and help cater the insights to help them, uh, drive the best performance with their given strategy.
• 7:48
  Uh, but, but as you said, there's, there's such a learning curve and such a, a mixture of market segments, of strategies, of, of customer segments.
• 7:59
  And so as, as you think about growing a software business in that environment, it really came, came down to three legs of the stool, right?
• 8:07
  One, you've got to have great data and insights that are applicable across, across segments, across dealer base, right? And, and we do that as we pull all the inventory across the country, 55 million VINs a week, right?
• 8:18
  The second is you have to have purpose-built software, right? If you're gonna be... If you're gonna try and be everything to everyone, you're not gonna be very successful.
• 8:27
  But if you're very purpose-built in, in the workflows that you can execute on, and vAuto has been very focused on certain purpose-built workflows. The third leg of that stool is just important, though.
• 8:38
  It's, it's performance management.
• 8:39
  We have well over 200 seasoned professionals that, that get in and work hip to hip, shoulder to shoulder with our clients to think about, "Okay, you've got the data and the insights and the workflows of our tool.
• 8:49
  Now let's talk about what it means for you, Kyle." And guess what? That's a lot different than how I'm gonna partner with Paul to help him work in the same way.
• 8:57
  And that can be both because they're in different markets or different, different franchises, but it can also be with a given VIN in the same market, but different dealers. And how are you gonna think about that VIN?
• 9:06
  How are you gonna price that and merchandise that VIN because you have a different profile, Kyle, than Paul may have, even though he's in the same city and it's the same make, model, right?
• 9:13
  And so that's the, where the art of, uh, performance management, that third leg of the stool, of helping distill both the data and the workflows into what works for that given dealer.
• 9:24
  I mean, I think that's one of the beautiful things about this industry, that there are no two dealers who are the same. They might sell the same thing. They might even be in a similar market. Right.
• 9:32
  But everyone's strategy is a little different. Their tech stack is different. The people they have executing are different, right?
• 9:37
  Even if all the other things were the same, the humans that they have in the, in the store and in the business pulling the levers and making decisions are different.
• 9:45
  So the flexibility to say like, "Hey, the pieces can work differently together to path you to success in a lot of different ways."
• 9:52
  You know, one of the things that, um, is, is a passion of yours and something that we hear and we see all over is this, um, we'll call it, we'll call it a fear of technology. Right.
• 10:03
  I think everyone pretends they're not afraid of technology, but I bet if you were to, like, uncover that a little bit, everyone has to be confident about it on the outward, right? Yeah. "Oh yeah, we're doing that.
• 10:13
  Oh yeah, we're deploying AI. Oh yeah, we're do..." Right? And everyone says it, but like anyone who actually gets a look in dealerships all over, they're like, "Eh," they're not doing it, right?
• 10:22
  And I think a lot of people don't know, and they're a little bit afraid of it. So, uh, maybe you could share some of your perspective on, on that fear of technology and, you know, what you think is the way forward.
• 10:31
  Yeah, absolutely, Paul. And we've seen that in, in waves of time, I'll say, right?
• 10:34
  So vAuto came to market bringing all that live market view, and we saw, you know, a reluctance and, and a learning curve of dealers even, uh, em- embracing getting that data via a technology tool, that it would help them, that it wasn't just their experience appraising in, in Philadelphia that would drive their success, but actually pulling the data and, and having the insights at their fingertips could, could improve that success.
• 10:57
  And, and we've been very successful in doing that. But now you bring up a great point, right? Here we are, another wave of technology adoption with AI, certainly the buzzword in the industry over the last 12 months.
• 11:07
  Everybody's referencing it, and there are those that are reluctant to say, "Hey, wait a minute. W- what does that mean? Uh, it... What, how does that change my role?
• 11:15
  How does that change my, uh, my opportunity within the space?"
• 11:19
  But I think as you think about the tangible applications, the real value-add applications, and lean into learning, testing, exploring, uh, that's ultimately where you find success, repeatable success, and you become at the forefront of that curve.
• 11:34
  Uh, and we've been pushing the envelope with AI.
• 11:36
  Here at Cox, we've been investing heavily from an AI perspective, and particularly in inventory management, there are several use cases that have started to surface that are real tangible use cases, right?
• 11:46
  Certainly from a predictive data science on pricing, right? We can take all of, of the factors, right? Market day supply, all the prices in the market, your own experience with a given VIN.
• 11:58
  If, say, you're a Ford dealer, it's a Toyota Camry. How have you done selling Camrys in the past? We can take search data from, from Autotrader.
• 12:04
  All these data points that we can pull together to create a probability of sale model so that as you price that car at different price points, we can tell you the probability of sale at a given price point.
• 12:14
  That's in- really compelling information that would be really hard for either one of us to do independently of, uh, AI and data really coming to the-To the forefront and using technology to drive that forward.
• 12:26
  But there's other use cases very tangible too, right? As I think about merchandising a car, AI can take that quickly. What are the- Mm-hmm... most searched terms on Autotrader?
• 12:36
  How do I distill those and make a compelling listing for this car and do it in seconds, something that would've taken us more time? Again, more efficient as I lean into technology and AI. And there are others, right?
• 12:45
  As you think about appraising a car, I can, I can use technology now to appraise that car where I bring in the real true condition of that car, not just estimates that leave me at risk and put my gross at risk on- once I get that car in the shop.
• 12:58
  As I think about appraising the car- Very... what are common problems with a given make/model, right? I may not have insight into every make/model. That's a tremendous use case for a large language model, LLM, right?
• 13:08
  So there's a lot of these use cases with technology that as you lean in and you test and you see the results, it gives more comfort and it drives, it drives better performance.
• 13:15
  Derek, back in the day when I started in the-- I was-- I started in the industry in 2009. It's not that long, but it's long enough to remember, like,
• 13:23
  my sales manager or my used car manager, like, he had all the knowledge, as well as the little black book and the little yellow book in his back pocket, right? That's right.
• 13:33
  And we all-- If, if you were in the car business anytime back then, you knew what the little black book and the little yellow book looked like, right? And, um, so there was very centralized knowledge, right?
• 13:45
  There, uh, those black and yellow books got delivered once a week to our dealership, and only three of them got there. Two of the sales managers got one, and the used car guy got one, right? There you go. Yeah.
• 13:53
  And that's all, everything was centralized on these few people that had, uh, th- this, like, seemingly, like, Loctite knowledge on how car valuations worked, right? Yep.
• 14:03
  And then, and then we started to transition to like, oh yeah, now everybody starts picking up technology solutions to kind of decentralize that just a little bit more.
• 14:12
  People, uh, more people can appraise the car, all the way to, you know, now you've got so many dealerships, like, allowing, you know, the, the, the first user to appraise the car because there's enough technology in place.
• 14:24
  Like, the, the salesperson is just appraising the car because there's guardrails. Do you see a world where the,
• 14:33
  the factor of merchandising, pricing, frontline readiness kind of has a lot more human interaction removed, where pricing just changes based on some guardrails, where merchandising just happens because we know that we got that car in, we got the photos, and boom, everything else is just live, so you don't have to touch it, or the data is so rich that, that you've got that opportunity?
• 14:59
  Do you see a world, and how long would it take to get to this, like, yeah, we don't really need a person touching this because it, it all kind of works itself out? Yeah, Kyle, we're quickly progressing to that world.
• 15:11
  Absolutely. Uh, I mean, a lot of the examples you highlighted we're starting to offer e- today in 2025.
• 15:18
  And so you think about, hey, I can drive a car through a booth, and it will give me images of all the damage, and I can automatically pull with the VIN all the book values, and depending on what part of the country, you might have had a blue book, not a black book or a yellow book.
• 15:30
  Right. Yeah, yeah. Right?
• 15:31
  But you start to marry all that data with all the live listings with what I know I need to do recon on this car to get it to what I consider a retail standard, and I have that in a printout, and I can bring that over to you as the consumer and say, "Kyle, love your Camry.
• 15:44
  Let's talk about it, though. You got a dent on that front left panel. Your tires need to be replaced, and, and, uh, interior, we've got, we've got some work that we have to do with, uh, with your upholstery.
• 15:54
  Here's, here's that on a printout and what that's gonna cost for us to get that into retail." That's a lot different conversation. You're building trust with that consumer. You're creating a much better experience.
• 16:04
  And oh, by the way, as a consumer, that consumer is typically coming in with 2.7, 2.8 offers in their back pocket before they even come to see you if they're already interested in selling that car, right?
• 16:14
  They've looked at Carvana or CarMax. They've looked at- Yes... Kelley Blue Book instant cash offer.
• 16:19
  And so they have these offers already with some sense of what that's worth before you even put your paper that's now has real-time information that you got in a matter of seconds without a person even touching the car, right?
• 16:30
  They drove it through something. So, uh, I think that world is quickly coming upon us. And, and there is still the art of person-to-person communication here. So I don't know that it alleviates people in that equation.
• 16:43
  But you're both coming to the, to the table with so much better information that's happening in real time that, uh, it really evolves the experience, I'll say. And that's where I think dealers need to continue to push.
• 16:56
  You know, it is that person-to-person communication. It's building trust with the data.
• 17:00
  It's bringing the data to bear in a way that you can bridge and, and, and, uh, ultimately acquire that car so that you're in a position to then retail and continue to f- to fuel the operation and keep moving forward.
• 17:12
  What do you think is the biggest watch-out for the next 12 months? Like, through the year 2026, what is the biggest watch-out that you would give to dealers
• 17:23
  if you don't do this, this, this is the potential thing that could happen? [lip smack] Yeah.
• 17:28
  I think the watch-out is for those who aren't testing, who aren't pushing their, their comfort zone, outside of their comfort zone.
• 17:34
  That to me is the watch-out, because I do think quickly, and, and we're seeing it already in the trends, like I mentioned, consumers coming to the table already with 2.7 offers.
• 17:42
  If you're not actively thinking about how you present your offer to the compu- consumer, if you're still just thinking about, "Hey, I've got a marker and I'm writing it on paper and I slide it across," and you're not testing how to, how to raise your game and bring more information to bear, then very quickly that starts to, starts to get out in your reviews, that starts to get out in the marketplace and, and you're losing your place, uh, as, as a retailer.
• 18:06
  Your, your, your reputation is shifting in the marketplace, and quickly you'll be behind when you think about sourcing, when you think about your opportunity and, and continuing to grow operations.
• 18:15
  And so- Well, talk about testing for a second, because you've said it quite a few times, and, like, I always like to ask a question that gets us...
• 18:23
  'Cause we, we tend to, like, have higher level conversation, but there are a lot of people listening who are maybe, like-A little bit down on the, on the testing side.
• 18:31
  Like, what, what is the low-hanging fruit on the testing side? What are some things where you're like, "Here are some ways you can dip your toe into testing," as, as you're kind of laying it out here? Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:40
  So, you know, acquisition's key this year, right? We're talking about acquisition. We're talking about pull-through. We're talking about look to book, getting better at, at acquiring cars through the appraisal process.
• 18:48
  Testing would be, "Hey, let's test how I actually su- s- surface that offer to the consumer," right? Let's test which elements we put in the paper and how we convey that paper, and let's learn from that.
• 19:00
  And if, if we try for, for two weeks this way and we see, circle back what success, h- how, however our metrics tracked, okay, maybe we actually shift and, and we, we alter our approach with the information.
• 19:11
  Do we bring more market insights from Kelley Blue Book? Do we bring more information based and anchor on that? Do we think about relative to what that means from a transaction value, sales tax, trade-in, et cetera?
• 19:22
  So to me, it's testing. It's not just... It's equal parts the tech- technology and insights that you're using. It's your process and your incentives with your team.
• 19:31
  And, and you can test along each of those dimensions, right? Maybe I'm gonna change my process a little bit.
• 19:38
  Okay, maybe I'm gonna leave my process, but I'm gonna change my incentives and, and see how that moves the needle.
• 19:42
  Actually, maybe I'm gonna think about a different technology provider as I continue to push more into the space. So, uh, I think you can test along all three dimensions.
• 19:48
  But as a dealer, you have to be actively trying to drive better performance. Use the tools, use the process, use the incentives, and iterate, and iterate. Continue to raise 1% improvement.
• 20:00
  Uh, that's, that's gonna be the name of the game. And I think as you highlighted, Kyle, with your question a minute ago,
• 20:06
  we're getting to a point where that real-time visibility, real-time efficiency, and the data being for all parties, transparent to all, is coming quickly at us.
• 20:15
  And so, you wanna be pushing yourself in your retail experience to be at the forefront of that.
• 20:22
  How do we, how do we hedge against the market creating itself, um, when more and more people are leveraging AI to price and merchandise a- automagically in the background, and kind of everyone is doing that?
• 20:42
  Do... How do we set guardrails as a market? This may be too big of a question to answer right here. But I think, you know- Hmm...
• 20:48
  how do we set guardrails as a market to make sure that we don't all of a sudden end up in this, like, re-race to the bottom? Like, we, you know, we, uh, uh...
• 20:58
  As, as more technology came to play, you know, especially in the, like, early teens, we saw a, a str- a, a very straight line race to the bottom in pricing- Mm... both in new and used.
• 21:08
  How do we m- create a market that doesn't do that automagi- automatish- automagically while we're not watching?
• 21:15
  Because AI is, is trying to understand consumer demand and, and, and create pricing and market, merchandising strategies toward consumer demand. Kyle, I think it's, it's a great question.
• 21:25
  We're definitely seeing compression again as we, as we evolve and, and, and get, you know, COVID further and further in the rear view mirror. But I think at the heart of your question is the consumer. In that inevitably,
• 21:38
  a vehicle is worth something different to every potential user of that vehicle, right? And so, you know the quote, "There's a but for every seat," right?
• 21:46
  So at the end of the day, that, that is ultimately what's driving the differential values for a vehicle in the marketplace.
• 21:54
  And so, as we think about automagically where the prices go, it's, it's, it's what that end use case is, right? What, who's the next user of that vehicle and what are they willing to pay?
• 22:04
  And we're gonna get more efficient at finding out. But th- there's a spectrum of, of users and, and how you find and meet those users is derived at, you know, how you'll get to the value.
• 22:16
  And so, I don't see a market where we get true compression to zero. I think still, you know, in how you serve, take this as an example, right?
• 22:25
  So if I'm in, in, in a market, right, I'm in Philadelphia, and I serve maybe a tier that doesn't have the best credit, right?
• 22:33
  And what their needs are and what that vehicle is worth to them versus I'm a Toyota dealer selling a late model Toyota, versus I'm a different franchise selling a late model Toyota. Mm.
• 22:42
  Now, it's, the market's getting more visible and the boundary between those three segments is starting to narrow. But- Yeah...
• 22:48
  it never will collapse to one because they're fundamentally different users with different value props in how they think about that car, right? Oh. It's a bit complex. I think we filled everybody up here.
• 22:59
  [laughs] Derek, I think you've handled the questions brilliantly.
• 23:02
  [laughs] I think there's some unique strategy that c- dealers can deploy and, and be thinking about, like how do I think about this level of technology at this point strategically in my operation?
• 23:13
  It's always great hanging out with you and chatting, and thanks for joining us here on this episode of Auto Collabs. [upbeat music] Yeah, really appreciate it, Kyle and Paul.
• 23:19
  Best of success with the new business and, uh, excited to see where this goes. Thank you.
• 23:27
  Yeah, I mean, I think that when you, when you listen to someone who has that much volume of data break things down to like, "Do this little thing, measure, then iterate.
• 23:38
  Do this little thing, measure, then iterate," you know, y- sometimes you think, like, just the access to big data, just the access to, like, all of the knowledge, you just, you just, you know what to do right away.
• 23:50
  Mm-hmm. But the function of iterating on anything, whether it's technology or a process or, or how your inventory works or anything, um, is like, it is core to being an entrepreneur.
• 24:03
  Understanding that the market is gonna move, that your people are gonna change. And that level of, like, test and iterate at, at micro levels, I think we all have to get used to in business.
• 24:13
  We've learned that especially over the last five years with all of the changes in inventory and COVID and chip shortages and all of that.
• 24:20
  You can't just, like, rely on, "I got the data set, I know what to do now," you know? Yeah. Well, th- this is the problem we face with untempered hype in our society. Ooh. Ooh.
• 24:31
  With, with so much hype, we get this false understa- 'Cause, like, we're only seeing the best parts of people's fake lives. Mm-hmm. So that makes us feel like, "Oh, my iterations are not big enough.
• 24:43
  They went from the bottom-" Mm... "step to the top step, and they skipped all the steps in between." So I love that reminder of, like, no, this is how it works for, for everybody. You have to go through those steps.
• 24:55
  You get clarity through those steps that otherwise you would not get, that keep you moving. But there is a fear sometimes. I, I've, I've felt this, so this kind of resonated with me.
• 25:06
  There is a fear associated with iteration, especially on the business stage, because your testing is- Yeah... often visible to everybody. It's real time.
• 25:16
  Well, it's a, it's kind of the age-old fear of failure that stops people from trying new things, stops people from bringing out their box.
• 25:23
  And really, what we're getting to now with the speed and velocity of technology coming, coming into the game, and now it's not like do you want to leverage technology or not, it's if you don't, you're done.
• 25:35
  It's, like, getting very, very clear. So getting over that hump of being willing to be wrong, being willing to break things, is really an essential characteristic for s- a, a successful dealer these days. Hands down.
• 25:47
  Hands down. Well- I think our work's done... our work is done here. Derek Hansen gave us all the juice. We hope it was worth the squeeze for you. Thanks for hanging out with us here on Auto Collabs.
• 25:58
  On behalf of Paul Jay Daly, Michael Cirillo, and myself, Kyle Mountsier, we'll see you next time. [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet?