Latest / Women in The Coaching Arena / 188 | How to Speak With More Confidence and Authority - with Sara Bagheri

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188 | How to Speak With More Confidence and Authority - with Sara Bagheri · Women in The Coaching Arena

• 0:00
  Speaker: Today I am joined by Sara Bagheri, who is founder of Fluence Comms.
• 0:05
  Speaker: Sara is a speech, language, and voice therapist with over 20 years clinical experience working in the NHS, private practice, and now she coaches media presenters, founders, and corporate leaders on how to use their voice and communication skills with
• 0:21
  Speaker: confidence.
• 0:23
  Speaker: So she really is the expert when it comes to how you sound, how you come across, and how to stop nerves showing up in your voice.
• 0:32
  Speaker: So I'm really excited to have Sara here today, because this is something I know many of us struggle with.
• 0:39
  Speaker: Maybe we know our stuff, but the moment you hit record or turn up at that meeting, you then can't remember your words or you don't speak as powerfully as you want to.
• 0:50
  Speaker: So welcome, Sara.
• 0:52
  Speaker: I'm really, really excited for this conversation.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Hi, Jo.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited, too.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
• 1:01
  Speaker: You are welcome.
• 1:02
  Speaker: So I know you have worked with sports presenters, corporate leaders, and those sort of people need to speak really well under pressure.
• 1:10
  Speaker: What is the single biggest thing that makes someone sound confident even when they're not particularly feeling it?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: The single biggest thing that helps us sound confident even when we're not feeling it, is really thinking about our pace of talking, so the speed of our talking, and the pausing that we can use in our talking.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: So what tends to happen when we're really nervous is our pace increases, we kind of hurry through what we want to say, we forget to pause, and then we get to the end of those live calls or videos,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and we just feel exhausted.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: when we use a very rapid rate of talking, it does put a lot of pressure on the body, so we do often get that fatigue, and that's quite difficult to sustain.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: So if we think about those two skills, pace and pausing, what we want to do is to use a slower pace and more deliberate pausing, and this has an impact twofold.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: So the first thing, by giving ourselves more time, it gives us that kind of settling into the live call.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: We're able to kind of relax a little bit more, give ourselves more time to think about what we want to say.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: So it has a direct benefit to ourselves, but then it also has a benefit for our listeners or those potential clients that we're trying to make an impact on.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: So it gives them more time to process the information or the message that we're trying to get across.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And that's essentially what we want our, our clients to be able to follow our message really easily, to make sense of what we're saying without having to think, "What did they say?"
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Or, you know, "I didn't quite understand that."
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So we want to make that delivery as easy as possible for them to understand.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And then there's also that kind of trust element that comes in.
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  Speaker 2: If we see someone who seems very relaxed, very confident in what they're saying, they're really taking their time over their delivery, their content, we immediately have more trust, and we believe in that person because they seem to trust
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  Speaker 2: and believe in what they're saying.
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  Speaker 2: There's lots of kind of things which make a difference, but these are the things that I would say are the key things that I see.
• 3:31
  Speaker: Ooh, interesting.
• 3:33
  Speaker: Yeah, I notice that particularly when I record my podcast, and luckily the video person I have come to the house always says, "You can stop at the end of a sentence," 'cause it's much easier when we edit if
• 3:49
  Speaker: you don't just keep talking all the time, all the time, all the time.
• 3:52
  Speaker: So yeah, it's definitely something I'm becoming much more consciously aware of.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And I think, like any new communication skill, it, it does take time to kind of first identify and bring awareness to what you're doing and what perhaps you want to, to change.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And I think it can feel incredibly awkward and, and uncomfortable when we're doing something differently, and that can put a lot of people off, taking that risk to, "Oh, actually I do need to work on my pace, but
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: what if I do sound a little bit robotic or maybe a bit scripted?"
• 4:29
  Speaker: Yeah, totally.
• 4:30
  Speaker: And that's exactly why I get nervous to make a change.
• 4:36
  Speaker: Mm.
• 4:36
  Speaker: Because I did once work with somebody on this, and I felt, it felt so uncomfortable.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 4:44
  Speaker: And I didn't feel natural to say...
• 4:47
  Speaker: So we were practicing, me just saying, "Welcome," and then stopping.
• 4:51
  Speaker: And I was like, "I cannot just say 'welcome' and then stop.
• 4:56
  Speaker: I have to say, 'Welcome.
• 4:58
  Speaker: So happy you're here.'"
• 4:59
  Speaker: Like, I, I could not do it.
• 5:01
  Speaker: So it was really, really tricky.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: And that's so common, Jo.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: It's really, really common when we do do something differently, that there is that kind of clunkiness and, and awkwardness.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It's like any new skill.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It really takes time for it to feel like ourselves.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And, you know, if I'm really honest, there will be a period of time when it might sound a little bit odd, and it doesn't sound like you.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: It, it might sound robotic.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: But what I do see in clients is that when we put the practice in, that timeframe of how long it takes to become more automatic and more natural, we're thinking about something like for some clients, maybe two weeks.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: For other clients, it might be longer.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But you do get there.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: But it is putting that practice and that commitment in.
• 5:50
  Speaker: Amazing.
• 5:51
  Speaker: So what happens physically in those moments that try and hinder this from being possible?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: When we feel quite nervous, when our voice might sound a little bit shaky, we might rush our speaking, there is a lot happening on a kind of physical and physiological level to our body and voice.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: But perhaps it might be, helpful to talk about what happens when we have a relaxed voice, a k- kind of comfortable voice.
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  Speaker 2: And I won't go into too much detail about the science, but I do find clients find it quite helpful to know from a kind of r- a rational perspective, okay, what is going on.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: That can be quite reassuring when we can kind of make sense of what's happening from of scientific, perspective.
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  Speaker 2: So if you feel your throat, you can feel a kind of lumpy, quite cartilag- cartilaginous, structure here, and that's your larynx or your voice box.
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  Speaker 2: And within your voice box, you have two vocal folds, So the vocal folds are two bands.
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  Speaker 2: They're made of, tissue, and they're mus- muscle as well, and they come together in this really, like, beautiful symmetrical way, and they can vibrate quite quickly if we want a higher pitch, and quite slowly if we want a
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  Speaker 2: lower pitch.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And all of that, kind of voice, if you like, starts in our, our diaphragm.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: So the air comes up through the lungs, passes through our vocal folds, they start to vibrate to create sound, and then they move into this structure which we call our articulators, our nose, our mouth, our lips, and then
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: they shape the sound so that they're identifiable into words.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So when that's all working really well, we can speak really easily and comfortably, but as you say, when we get stressed or when we feel nervous, the body almost goes into this fight or flight response, and it thinks
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: there's a perceived danger here, which is often for many of us, the act of speaking, you know, especially in front of people or if we're doing a webinar, or for some people it could even be just that one-to-one.
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  Speaker 2: we all have different thresholds of what we find challenging and scary.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: So the body perceives a threat, and you'll often get kind of increased heart rate, you might start to sweat, you might get a bit of a, a kind of a tremor in your voice.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And one of the biggest things that we see is a lot of tension, particularly around the shoulders, around the neck, and around the vocal folds as well, around the throat area.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: So you can see if we have a lot of tension, that is gonna affect what we call our speech output.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is how we coordinate our speaking, how we coordinate the breath, how we coordinate that breath coming through the vocal folds, and then using those articulators.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So we get a lot of those, symptoms, if you like, of looking and feeling and sounding nervous.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I would recommend is we wanna try and remove all that tension.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: We want to kind of tell the body it's okay.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: We're calm, we wanna move out of that fight-flight state and activate the nervous system.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if you experience any of those things, Jo.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: it's quite varied in terms of how people feel when they're speaking.
• 9:23
  Speaker: Yeah, totally.
• 9:25
  Speaker: let me think I definitely, I, I think I hold my breath quite a lot.
• 9:33
  Speaker: I probably wouldn't say it's always nerves, 'cause I- Mm-hmm I do calls a- all day long, but I definitely wouldn't say I'm feeling all relaxed and everything.
• 9:42
  Speaker: I'm, like, busy and therefore maybe not consciously thinking about how I'm speaking and slowing down.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: As you say, sometimes it might not be nerves that's causing the tension.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: It could be other kind of stress factors as well.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: If you know you've got a really busy day of back-to-back calls or, like many of us, if you've had a really stressful morning coordinating lots of logistics with your childcare, then your body might just feel tense, and we
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: want to let go of that tension.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if it would be helpful to share a muscle tension exercise that, I use with clients.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I can walk you through that if that would be helpful.
• 10:27
  Speaker: Love it.
• 10:28
  Speaker: Yes, I'm always up for this, and then obviously I'll have this for the future, and we will all have this for the future, so we'll know exactly what to do before a discovery call, a webinar, a talk, or
• 10:38
  Speaker: whatever we're doing.
• 10:39
  Speaker: So thanks, Sara.
• 10:40
  Speaker: Excited to try it.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So there's lots of different versions of this particular exercise, and this one is called a progressive whole body release of tension exercise.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: But essentially what we're doing is we are bringing attention to different parts of the body where we might hold tension and contracting those muscles, holding them really tight, and then releasing them.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: So there's lots of kind of different lengths of this exercise you can do.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: You know, you could do a quick 60-second one.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: You could do a two-minute or a five-minute version, and I will often record audios of this to share with clients.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So if...
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I can always send you one, or if your, listeners were interested in, in hearing it, I'm happy to share that as well.
• 11:28
  Speaker: Oh, that would be amazing.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Just take a moment and allow your hands to rest naturally.
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  Speaker 2: Let your feet rest on the floor.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And absolutely just close the eyes down if that feels really comfortable for you, and gently bring your attention to your breathing and notice the breath as it moves in and as it moves out.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And just allow it to find a really easy, steady rhythm.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Now bring your awareness to your feet and your lower legs.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So gently tense your toes, your feet, and your calves all together.
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  Speaker 2: Hold for three, two, one, and release.
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  Speaker 2: Now bring your awareness to your belly and your lower back.
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  Speaker 2: Gently draw the muscles in.
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  Speaker 2: Hold for three, two, one, and release.
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  Speaker 2: Move your attention to your chest and upper back and shoulders.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Gently tense across the chest and shoulders.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Hold for three, two, one, and release.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Bring your awareness to your hands and arms.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Gently curl the fingers, tense the arms.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Hold for three, two, one, and release Move your attention to your neck and jaw.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Very gently tense, hold for three, two, one, and release.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And finally, bring your awareness to your face, the top of your head.
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  Speaker 2: Scrunch the facial muscles if you feel comfortable.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Hold for three, two, one, and release.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And just take a moment to notice your whole body now.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Your body's soft, your body is calm, your breathing is steady, and you can now carry this sense of ease into your voice and speaking If you open the eyes
• 13:34
  Speaker: Oh, goodness me.
• 13:35
  Speaker: Feel great.
• 13:36
  Speaker: Thank you.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It's, it...
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I do like it because breathing exercises are fantastic, but the combination of the breathing exercise and the muscle tension exercise is really quite powerful.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And you can do it, you know, when you're on the train or the tube or the bus.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: You can make it quite subtle.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: You can almost put your own spin on it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and you can do it for as long, you can extend the length of time you hold the tension for.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So I'd really encourage anybody who does feel that tension to, to give it a go.
• 14:10
  Speaker: I mean, it's crazy what a difference it makes, isn't it?
• 14:13
  Speaker: If I could just spend one minute prior to a call or whatever I'm doing, actually doing that type of exercise, it makes a huge difference.
• 14:25
  Speaker: So when I hold in-person events, I often do an exercise like that at the beginning, and I'm usually the one that needs it the most 'cause clearly I'm the one up there.
• 14:34
  Speaker: But even though I'm talking it through- Mm I feel so much better, and everybody in the room does.
• 14:41
  Speaker: So it always astounds me how just, like, one minute or something of doing something like that can completely change how grounded you feel.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I often kind of talk to clients about when you do go into a call, you will have a sense of kind of preparing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You'll probably have, make sure your laptop's charged.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: You will have your notepad and pen, if you're that kind of person.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: You'll have your water.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So if we can add to that routine, it, it does become a little bit more automatic, you know?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: There's lots of things that I should be practicing more of, so I, I do understand that it is hard sometimes to add something additional.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But, it is something I get a lot of feedback that it does really make a difference.
• 15:25
  Speaker: Oh, it does, totally.
• 15:27
  Speaker: So let's talk about pace then, 'cause you said that that was really important, and when someone's nervous, they tend to rush.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 15:35
  Speaker: How do we, as well as the breathing exercises, train ourselves to slow down without feeling robotic?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that idea of robotic and scripted comes up quite a lot.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And if we kind of think about quite specifically about why somebody sounds robotic or why they sound scripted, it's often because they are using one type of pace, and usually it's that slower pace.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So with anything, contrast is our friend.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So if we can use a bit of slower pace, particularly if we're talking about new concepts or frameworks or explaining something quite complex, or we're meeting somebody new who'll be unfamiliar with our communication style, a slow pace definitely
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: has its place.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But we also want to contrast that with a, a kind of faster, kind of a quicker pace to show energy and enthusiasm.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: So it's having your tool bag, if you like, of different paces that you can pick and mix.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: The other thing that we, we see is sometimes we can use what's called unusual pausing, so that gives it that robotic element.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: So people may pause mid-sentence, which is quite an odd thing, and when you hear that, it can sound like it's not particularly conversational.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: or they might pause after a really long kind of train of thought, and that can make it sound quite scripted because you can tell that that person just wanted to get to the end of that paragraph that they
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: had maybe written out verbatim.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So I would say if we can use a variation of pace, that's really quite helpful.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And I was gonna say the, the kind of first thing I would do in terms of making those changes is the self-awareness aspect.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And you talked about this, that, you know, when we watch videos or when we listen to ourselves, that's a great opportunity to just, I kinda call it diagnostic listening, which is, okay, what am I doing with my pace
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: there?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, and, and notice it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Try not to be critical, but just using it as an opportunity for gathering data.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and then the second aspect, which again you spoke about, was this idea of practice.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And I would always practice with what I call very, a kind of a very low, demand.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: We call it kind of low cognitive load or low language load, which would be things like days of the week or counting, saying your name.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And then we would build up to introductions or maybe talking about a, a new program.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: So it's graded.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: We're not going straight from, okay, I struggle with using a faster pace.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go from straight to talking about a paragraph or a framework of things.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So it's about that graded, practice
• 18:37
  Speaker: When I started my podcast, that was the biggest wake-up call, I suppose, for me because in the editing software, it punctuates it.
• 18:48
  Speaker: So you can see sometimes where I might pause mid-sentence, so there's a full stop there when there really shouldn't be, or that there's no full stop for ages because I just keep on talking.
• 18:59
  Speaker: So it's been really great to gain that awareness, of my speaking.
• 19:05
  Speaker: And I think the one other thing that I'd love to know more about is the age-old habit of raising your voice at the end of a sentence- Mm like
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: you're
• 19:16
  Speaker: asking a question, 'cause again, the punctuation will be a question and, and it wasn't a question, to maybe sound more likable.
• 19:24
  Speaker: Is that, is that a thing?
• 19:25
  Speaker: And tell me more about that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I, I hear, upspeak a lot.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And, you know, upspeak comes from, you know, various parts of the world, but typically kind of New Zealand, Australia, but they're not just isolated to that country.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I think if you listen to some of the more popular shows on ITV, for example, Love Island, there is a lot of upspeak.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And just to define what upspeak is, upspeak, as you, you said, is it's this rising at the end of your sentence.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: And rising, in our speeches is absolutely fine.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: We do it a lot, as you say, when we ask questions or maybe when we're listing things as well.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I need, you know, no latte.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I need a cappuccino.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So it has its place, but as you said, when we overuse upspeak and we use it in a way when it isn't supposed to be a question, it creates a lot of uncertainty and it's quite confusing for the
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: listener as well.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Are you asking me a question?
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Are you not?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Are you certain about your message?
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And if I give you an example, I'll take my introduction.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: So hi, I'm Sara.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: My company's called Fluence.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I'm the founder of Fluence.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: And I'll just give two contrasting examples of upspeak, where the pitch goes up, it rises, and then I'll contrast that with the pitch falling so it's more like a statement.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And we'll just see if we can hear that difference.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: So number one, with upspeak.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Sara.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: I'm the founder of Fluence.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, so upspeak.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And th- there does seem a kind of a younger quality to that as well.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know if, if, if you pick that up.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: And I'll contrast that with the, the fall in the pitch.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Sara, founder of Fluence.
• 21:19
  Speaker: Amazing difference, isn't it?
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: you think it's just something so subtle, so little, but it does.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: It really, makes you feel more credible, and you feel more certain about what you're saying.
• 21:31
  Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:32
  Speaker: So any tips on that one?
• 21:34
  Speaker: Or just is it awareness and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for some people it really is quite a habitual pattern, and our speaking patterns are very much influenced by who we connect with.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I gave this example of Love Island, 'cause lots of my clients are talking about they have teens who are watching it, and when they hear the Love Island talk, they can hear all the upspeak.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: So it's really important to, to get curious about what you're listening to.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So if you're listening to lots of podcasts or TV where there is a lot of upspeak, you will be influenced by that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Or if you have friends and family members who use a lot of upspeak, that will influence you as well.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So just, I would say, get curious about how much upspeak you're exposed to.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And then as you said, it's that awareness, that self-awareness of when you're doing it and trying to catch yourself.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And I think just how I modeled there, that contrast, doing lots of what we call contrast practice.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: So get really playful about saying a sentence, maybe saying your introduction with that upspeak, and then contrasting it with that more statement, that kind of drop in pitch.
• 22:47
  Speaker: So tell us more about pitch then.
• 22:49
  Speaker: I suppose it's kind of related to that, but I guess generally we perceive a lower pitch to be more authoritative.
• 22:57
  Speaker: What are your thoughts on this?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really interesting about pitch and this idea that low pitch means more authoritative, and typically low pitch is perceived as a more masculine sounding voice.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: And I think all those examples from, you know, Margaret Thatcher and Theresa May, you know, that political space, we hear that a lot.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: But I would say there has been quite a shift, certainly, I've seen in the last kind of five, 10 years, that- Does lower pitch actually mean authoritative?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because pitch is just what we call one parameter of our communication, and parameter just means, like, one feature or one skill.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And we have over, like, 30 different parameters of our communication skills, which, when I work with a client, when we do the assessment, we would go through all of those different parameters together.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And it's not just one thing that makes a difference to our sounding authoritative.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: It's a combination of things.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: We spoke earlier about having the pace and the pausing, but it's also things like our non-verbal communication skills.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: That can make a real difference to how we're perceived, and also the expression that we put into our voices.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: So for me, personally, I have worked on pitch before, and it's, it's a skill, as you say, that we, we all have the capacity to change our pitch, to make it lower or higher.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: But what can happen when we try and use a lower pitch, particularly one that might be out of our comfortable range, is we can then get a flatter, more monotonous style of talking, and we don't want that.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So I would s- I'd say that the kind of, there is a shift occurring in how we perceive communication.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And the other thing to really think about is context really matters.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So authoritative in a coaching call will look really different for a sports presenter who's being authoritative.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You know, in a sports presenting environment, authoritative might look like adaptability.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: It might look like energy.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Whereas if we're on a coaching call or maybe if we're going into a board meeting, it might be more direct.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: It might be more formal.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: So I think it's about thinking, thinking about your individual, skills and your individual context as well, because that will define what looks and feels authoritative for you.
• 25:34
  Speaker: So what vocal habits make a listener trust us within the first 30 seconds, say, if we're thinking about a webinar, a discovery call, something we're doing?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I think, thinking about vocal habits which both kind of undermine and boost credibility is really, really important.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: And I think certainly for so many of us, those first 30 seconds can feel quite loaded, and we really want to make a good impression.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Often I'll kind of talk to clients about, in that first 30 seconds, what is your listener wanting to find out?
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: What questions are they maybe percolating over?
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And there will be a lot of questions, but for me, some of those key questions will be, are they genuinely engaged in what I'm saying or what I'm talking about?
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Is this person the expert in what they're saying?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So I would say technique-wise, clarity is really important.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So in that 30 seconds, is your message really clear?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Are you able to say who you are, what you do, and why your service matters or the value that you add?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: So being really clear in your messaging, and I think there's nothing wrong with writing out verbatim what that is and practicing it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And you can also see where are the, kind of more generic or filler words that you can just put a cross through.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Take those out.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: So I'd say clarity is one of the key things.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: The second thing I would say is active listening skills, and really thinking about the non-verbal communication skills.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So how are you in terms of showing those, those listening skills?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Do you kind of nod?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Many of us kind of move our head to the side.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: We might smile.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: We might mirror facial expression.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So I think if you could add t- those two skills into your kind of repertoire of things, they'll make a big difference for that first 30 seconds.
• 27:33
  Speaker: Yeah, totally.
• 27:34
  Speaker: And actually, coincidently, just before this call, I had a call with a client who said, "As soon as I go to the networking meeting-" I just freeze and can't bear to say my- pitch statement.
• 27:53
  Speaker: What would happen, or, like, what's your advice to someone who does go and they might practice, or they feel like they've got it nailed, and I've practiced with this client quite a lot now.
• 28:02
  Speaker: She's brilliant at it when we- Mm have our calls.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 28:06
  Speaker: And then I guess you just get there, and maybe you compare yourself was a big theme, of like, "They sound way more important than me," so then maybe she downplays who she is because she thinks she doesn't sound
• 28:18
  Speaker: as fancy as that person.
• 28:21
  Speaker: So any tips on that one?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: No, there's a couple of things that are coming up for me.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I think one of them is this idea about how critical we are of ourselves.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: We can be incred- you know, if we listen to our voice, we can think, "Oh, I don't like how I sound."
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: and then I think the video aspect as well, that can bring a whole nother layer of, you know, analyzing how we look.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I think editing is brilliant.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: It has a lot of, wonderful things that it helps us with.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: But it also presents this really polished version of communication that just doesn't exist.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: We do stumble over our words, we do forget what we want to say, we do lose our trail of thought.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I think that expectation that we put on ourselves because of what we see and hear online really does create, a lot of tension, and it can really put people off from taking those risks and going out to those
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: network meetings.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: So I think a mindset piece is really important.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So if I have a client, for example, who says, "I hate the sound of my own voice," we would really try and unpack, okay, what are some other more neutral thoughts that would be more helpful?
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Because we know that when we think a thought like, "I hate the sound of my voice," it creates a feeling, feelings around self-doubt, incompetence.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And when we have those feelings, the actions that we take as a result, or the actions that we don't take as a result, like not showing up in the networking meetings or not saying what we want to say,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: or we might feel those more physical, kind of aspects of our voice failing us.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: So doing that mindset piece is really important as well as technique.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: So I'd say that's a mindset piece.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing that came to me when you spoke about we go to these network meetings and it can feel, they can feel huge, is I'm a really, big advocate of what I call low-stake demands, kind
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: of low-stake vocal demands, and high-stake.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: So kind of thinking of it as a ladder, if you like.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: So at the bottom it might be talking to your son, your daughter, or a family member.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: It might be then going in and ordering a coffee and I'm not talking about using the the digital machines.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I'm actually going and speaking to a barista.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: And then it might be, you know, if you go shopping or, just trying to have more of those spontaneous conversations where you're using your voice, practicing maybe some of those techniques.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And then when you go into those high, what we call high-stake speaking demands, like the networking event, you've moved up through the ladder.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: So you're not just jumping from maybe a low-stake demand to a high-stake demand, and that can make a real difference as well.
• 31:15
  Speaker: Oh, so genius.
• 31:16
  Speaker: I love the idea of that because I think that's just what we don't do, is it.
• 31:20
  Speaker: We think, "I've got this big presentation.
• 31:22
  Speaker: Everything needs to be ready for that."
• 31:24
  Speaker: And we never think to just practice it in real life.
• 31:29
  Speaker: And then the first time we ever really get to practice it is when we're staying in that high-stake situation, and we're thinking, "Oh my goodness," like, "I've, I've never really done this before."
• 31:39
  Speaker: So we are often talking all day if we're hosting workshops, trainings, that type of thing.
• 31:45
  Speaker: How do we protect our voice so it's not exhausted by the end of the day or the end of the week?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I would think about is this idea of what we call, vocal demands.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: And as you say, live calls, webinars, recording information, going to network events all kind of adds to our, our vocal demand or our vocal energy bank.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: So that all those hours that we spend talking kind of contribute.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: So we'll have some days which are heavier and some days which are lighter.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: So I would really get, kind of bring awareness, if you like, and get quite curious about what days are heavier.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: And on those heavier days, building in really short what we call vocal rests.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And we're not talking like not speaking for hours.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes, five, 10 minutes, or even three minutes where you're just resting that voice.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And particularly if you, you know, are For many of us as coaches, as, consultants, our voice is fundamental to what we do.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: You know, if we don't have that voice, we don't have that strong voice, it means that we can't connect in those clients in the same way.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: So I would say think about what days are heavier and lighter.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: The other thing I would think about is hydration, and I think most of us, I can see both, both of us kind of sipping our water, sipping water throughout the day rather than just glugging a whole bottle of
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: water.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And that's brilliant hydration through water, because how that works is it indirectly supports the vocal folds by keeping them really, moist.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: It means that they can be more flexible, they can vibrate really smoothly.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: But that's only indirect hydration.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: If you think when we drink water, it goes into our tummies, and then it go- goes out through our bloodstream into the tissues, including the vocal folds.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: But what's really effective is if we can give the vocal folds direct hydration, and that's why I love steam inhalation.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: So if you have, a gym that you go to and they have a steam room, get into the steam room.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Or you can just be really old school, head over a bowl of water, towel over your head, and that provides direct hydration, and it's immediate.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: So if you feel like your voice is really hoarse or really tired or achy, I would do the steam hydration.
• 34:11
  Speaker: Oh, love it.
• 34:12
  Speaker: It brings back the days of me doing that as a child when I had a cold or something.
• 34:15
  Speaker: My mum would always make me get the towel over my head with a bowl.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I think it is something which, lots of my clients will, will use now.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: As you say, it's building in those habits where you can.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: so the hydration aspect is really important.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: And then, as you say it's funny, we often pay more attention to our voice when it starts to let us down or when it- Yeah feels fatigue.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: So I think if we can look after our voice when it's healthy, it also helps us notice when things are going wrong.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: And just with my speech and language head on, I would say if you do find that you have a persistent cough or persistent hoarseness for more than three weeks in the absence of a cold, that is something that
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I would talk to a GP about.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Because that can sometimes mean that you might need to just have something like ENT just to check that the vocal folds and the larynx is all quite healthy.
• 35:10
  Speaker: So if somebody is doing lives or showing up on video for the first time or, dreading how they sound or they don't wanna watch it back.
• 35:21
  Speaker: Mm.
• 35:21
  Speaker: Where would they start with that?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Watching yourself on video and listening to yourself online, it really brings up a lot of strong feelings for people.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I'm sure both myself and you, Jo, you know, we'll probably watch ourselves back and think, "Oh, that worked.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: That didn't work."
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: But it's that curious mindset and that's what I often talk to clients about is, like, try not to have that critical voice when you're analyzing.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Try and bring more of a curious voice, "Okay, that, that worked.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: That didn't work.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that...
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I, oh, I liked how I sounded in that part," or, "I answered that question really well," so that you're, you're gathering lots of data.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I think we can be so critical and look at all the things that didn't work, and that's, that's important information, but sometimes the gold is in where things did work and what was happening with our voice.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: So I would say get curious in a really supportive, compassionate way.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: we've talked about that mindset piece, so can we change some of those thoughts to help us show up more confidently on those calls, to take that risk of putting out that video?
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing would be linking in with this idea of, grading, that gradual approach to recording and, videos and audios, is can we just record a 30-second video of ourself?
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Can we send it to maybe a trusted coach or a mentor or a family member and then build up?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't always have to go for that big 30-minute, webinar as a starting point.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: build in lots of opportunities before you do that so you feel really comfortable with your voice
• 37:06
  Speaker: I'm so excited to try so many of these things, Sara.
• 37:10
  Speaker: Where can we find you, and how can you help our listeners?
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would love to speak with some of your listeners.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Fluence is based in Liverpool Street in London, so I offer in-person sessions, but I also offer online sessions to, clients who might not live in London.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: And one of the most popular services, we offer at Fluence is what's called the signature assessment.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I think earlier you may have heard me talk about this idea of the parameters of communication.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: We have over 30 of those different parameters, so that's where I do a really comprehensive assessment with the client so they can really work out, "What's working for me," all of that good stuff, and, "Where are the areas
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: that I might need to pay a little bit more attention to and learn some technique or some mindset?"
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: So the assessment is a great place for clients to start, and equally, if you have something quite bespoke that you want training for, maybe the webinar, maybe a podcast appearance, I offer really tailored, personalized sessions around the clients.
• 38:17
  Speaker: Amazing, Sara.
• 38:18
  Speaker: And so where is the best place to find you?
• 38:21
  Speaker: Is it, like, LinkedIn, website?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so LinkedIn is, my home, my preferred home.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I'm really active on there, so do reach out.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: My name is Sara Bagheri, or you can have a look at my website, which is fluencecomms.co.uk.
• 38:36
  Speaker: I'm, yeah, really excited to get to work on many of the things that we covered today, so thank you so, so much, Sara.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Jo.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: It's lovely talking to you.